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Groups > comp.lang.c > #60126 > unrolled thread

Re: Problems with va_list & friends...

Started byPhilipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de>
First post2015-04-16 13:08 +0200
Last post2015-04-18 08:11 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 192 — 30 participants

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Contents

  Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2015-04-16 13:08 +0200
    Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-04-16 12:14 -0500
      Re: Problems with va_list & friends... gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-04-16 17:18 +0000
      Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-16 18:43 +0100
        Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-04-16 21:03 -0500
          Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-16 23:38 -0400
          Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-17 07:39 +0100
            Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-17 13:31 -0500
              Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-17 14:46 -0400
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-18 11:46 -0700
                  Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-18 15:35 -0700
                    Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-22 10:57 -0700
              Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-19 11:58 +0100
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-20 10:50 -0500
                  Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 17:55 +0100
            Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-04-17 23:01 -0500
              Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-18 00:24 -0500
              Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-18 07:50 -0400
              Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-18 11:56 -0700
              Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-19 14:59 +0100
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-04-19 11:47 -0500
                  Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-19 18:44 +0100
                  Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-19 18:34 -0400
                    Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-20 01:42 -0700
                      Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-20 08:14 -0400
                        Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-20 10:30 -0700
                          Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-20 13:56 -0400
                            Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Ian Pilcher <arequipeno@gmail.com> - 2015-04-20 18:39 -0500
                        Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-23 12:37 -0700
                          Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-04-23 20:25 -0500
                            Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-24 07:58 -0700
                            Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-24 12:58 -0500
                              Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-04-24 22:13 -0500
                              Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-28 13:05 -0700
                                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-30 08:40 -0500
                                  Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-01 08:40 -0700
                                  Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-03 11:42 -0500
                                    Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-05-04 17:43 +1200
                                      Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-04 07:34 -0500
                                      Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2015-05-08 17:12 +0300
                                        Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-10 07:40 -0700
                                    Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-04 08:49 -0700
                                      Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-04 12:23 -0500
                    Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-04-20 07:49 -0500
                      Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 14:27 +0100
                        Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-20 09:39 -0500
                          Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 17:48 +0100
                            Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-20 15:58 -0500
                              Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 22:25 +0100
                          Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-20 13:22 -0400
                            Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-20 11:15 -0700
                              Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-20 15:02 -0400
                                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-20 12:51 -0700
                                  Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 21:17 +0100
                                    Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-20 16:09 -0700
                                      Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-21 00:33 +0100
                                  Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-20 16:26 -0400
                                    Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-20 15:46 -0700
                                      Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-20 16:17 -0700
                                      Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-21 07:43 -0700
                                      Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-21 08:06 -0700
                                      Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-04-22 21:55 -0700
                              Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 20:04 +0100
                                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-20 13:22 -0700
                                  Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 21:42 +0100
                                    Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-20 16:58 -0700
                                      Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-21 01:16 +0100
                                        Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-04-21 02:19 +0200
                                        Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-20 23:14 -0700
                                          Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-21 11:47 -0400
                                            Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-22 00:13 -0700
                                              Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 08:36 +0100
                                                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-22 03:15 -0700
                                                  Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 11:52 +0100
                                                    Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-22 09:04 -0700
                                                      Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 17:14 +0100
                                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-20 15:24 -0700
                                  Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-21 00:24 -0500
                                  Re: Problems with va_list & friends... raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-21 09:33 +0000
                                    Re: Problems with va_list & friends... gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-04-21 11:57 +0000
                                      Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-21 10:22 -0500
                                        The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-04-21 15:38 +0000
                                          Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Greg Martin <greg.at.softsprocket@dot.com> - 2015-04-21 15:58 +0000
                                            Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-21 18:09 +0100
                                              Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Greg Martin <greg.at.softsprocket@dot.com> - 2015-04-21 17:42 +0000
                                              Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 10:47 +0200
                                                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-22 20:56 +1200
                                                  Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) guinness.tony@gmail.com - 2015-04-22 03:53 -0700
                                                  Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-22 11:01 -0500
                                                    Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-23 08:17 -0700
                                                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 10:21 +0100
                                                  Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-22 11:17 -0500
                                                    Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-04-22 09:59 -0700
                                                      Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-22 18:48 +0100
                                                        Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-22 14:35 -0500
                                                        Re: The Metric system Ben Bacarisse <ben.lists@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-22 21:22 +0100
                                                        Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 09:58 +0000
                                                          Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-25 12:33 +0100
                                                            Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 12:18 +0000
                                                              Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-25 13:51 +0100
                                                                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-25 16:34 +0200
                                                                  Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-25 17:00 +0100
                                                                    Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-04-25 16:59 +0000
                                                                    Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-28 16:04 +0000
                                                                      Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-30 04:22 -0700
                                                                        Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-30 09:27 -0500
                                                                        Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-30 12:01 -0500
                                                                      Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-30 13:38 +0100
                                                              Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-25 16:36 +0200
                                                                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-26 08:20 +1200
                                                                  Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) "Bill Davy" <Bill@SynectixLtd.com> - 2015-04-25 21:33 +0100
                                                                  Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-26 12:07 +0200
                                                                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-26 14:22 +0100
                                                                  Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-26 15:44 +0000
                                                    Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-22 13:11 -0400
                                                      Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-22 17:05 -0500
                                                        Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-22 18:30 -0400
                                                      Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-22 17:35 -0500
                                                        Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-22 19:15 -0400
                                                          Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-23 11:05 -0500
                                                            Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-23 12:54 -0400
                                                              Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-23 14:12 -0500
                                                                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-23 15:50 -0400
                                                                  Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-23 16:43 -0500
                                                                    Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-23 18:09 -0400
                                                    Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-04-22 13:15 -0500
                                                      Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-04-22 19:17 +0000
                                                      Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 20:48 +0100
                                                        Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-04-23 08:11 -0500
                                                          Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-23 12:58 -0400
                                                            Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-23 14:13 -0500
                                                          Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 10:08 +0000
                                                      Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-22 17:15 -0500
                                                    Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 09:18 +0000
                                                      Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-25 13:02 -0500
                                                        Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-26 14:26 +0100
                                                          Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-05-03 11:48 -0700
                                                            Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-05 18:20 +0100
                                                              Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-05-05 12:43 -0500
                                                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-22 11:32 +0100
                                                  Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) "Bill Davy" <Bill@SynectixLtd.com> - 2015-04-22 14:31 +0100
                                                    Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-23 07:51 +1200
                                                      Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) "Bill Davy" <Bill@SynectixLtd.com> - 2015-04-23 08:05 +0100
                                                  Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 10:10 +0000
                                                    Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-26 09:27 +0100
                                                      Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-26 10:55 +0000
                                                        Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-26 07:19 -0500
                                                          Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-26 12:59 +0000
                                                      Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-28 07:07 -0700
                                                        Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-28 09:51 -0500
                                                        Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) guinness.tony@gmail.com - 2015-04-28 08:04 -0700
                                                          Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-28 16:19 +0100
                                                            Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-04-28 19:15 -0500
                                                          Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-28 16:06 +0000
                                                            Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) guinness.tony@gmail.com - 2015-04-28 09:39 -0700
                                                              Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-28 16:51 +0000
                                                                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) guinness.tony@gmail.com - 2015-04-29 05:08 -0700
                                                                  Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-29 13:47 +0000
                                                              Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-28 13:03 -0400
                                                      Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2015-05-10 12:24 -0400
                                            Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-04-21 18:12 +0000
                                              Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Greg Martin <greg.at.softsprocket@dot.com> - 2015-04-21 19:34 +0000
                                          Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-21 12:46 -0500
                                            Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-22 07:42 +1200
                                              Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Greg Martin <greg.at.softsprocket@dot.com> - 2015-04-21 20:13 +0000
                                              Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 10:52 +0200
                                          Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 09:18 -0700
                                        Re: Problems with va_list & friends... raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-21 22:25 +0000
                                          Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-23 15:59 -0500
                                    Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-23 11:51 -0700
                                  Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-23 11:26 -0700
                            Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-20 16:15 -0500
                              Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-20 17:23 -0400
                      Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-20 13:17 -0400
                        Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-20 15:26 -0500
                          Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-20 16:15 -0700
                            Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-21 00:42 -0500
                            Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-22 11:15 -0700
                        Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 21:50 +0100
                        Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-20 17:04 -0400
            Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-18 08:22 -0700
              Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-19 18:23 +0100
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-19 13:22 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-19 21:51 -0500
                  Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 10:01 +0100
                    Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-20 05:08 -0500
                      Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 11:37 +0100
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-23 20:13 -0700
      Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2015-04-18 09:15 +0200
        Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-18 12:13 -0700
    Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-16 23:40 -0400
    Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-18 08:11 -0700

Page 5 of 10 — ← Prev page 1 … 3 4 [5] 6 7 … 10  Next page →


#60648

FromStephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org>
Date2015-04-21 10:22 -0500
Message-ID<mh5pu1$el9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#60632
On 21-Apr-15 06:57, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> It's kinda the Microsoft (and, for that matter, that of the US of A)
> attitude; we're big enough that even though we're "wrong" about many
> things, we're big enough that people will follow and do things our
> way regardless.
> 
> For example, the US's insistence on not using the metric system.

That's more legislative neglect than insistence: Congress feels such
things are best left to industry to decide, and industry is (so far)
unwilling to take the short-term hit in return for long-term gains.

(Though, as dysfunctional as Congress has become, even if they agreed it
was their job to set policy, they still couldn't get anything done.)

S

-- 
Stephen Sprunk         "God does not play dice."  --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723         "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS        dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

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#60650 — The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)

Fromgazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack)
Date2015-04-21 15:38 +0000
SubjectThe Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)
Message-ID<mh5qud$5gf$1@news.xmission.com>
In reply to#60648
In article <mh5pu1$el9$1@dont-email.me>,
Stephen Sprunk  <stephen@sprunk.org> wrote:
...
>> For example, the US's insistence on not using the metric system.
>
>That's more legislative neglect than insistence: Congress feels such
>things are best left to industry to decide, and industry is (so far)
>unwilling to take the short-term hit in return for long-term gains.

Kinda "You say tomaytoe, I say tomahtoe".  My view is that industry is by
nature and certainly by recent (since Reagan) US practice so short sighted
that they simply don't see any reason to switch.  Why take the hit?

Incidentally, Canada almost succeeded in switching, but failed because of
the great influence US practice has on their policies.  The result is an
ugly mishmash, where some things are quoted in metric and other things are
quoted in US units.  It must be very confusing for them...

>(Though, as dysfunctional as Congress has become, even if they agreed it
>was their job to set policy, they still couldn't get anything done.)

You got that right.

-- 

Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts
have no place in organized religion.
 -- Superintendent Chalmers

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#60655 — Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)

FromGreg Martin <greg.at.softsprocket@dot.com>
Date2015-04-21 15:58 +0000
SubjectRe: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)
Message-ID<psuZw.31252$5b5.12618@fx02.iad>
In reply to#60650
On 2015-04-21, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
> In article <mh5pu1$el9$1@dont-email.me>,
> Stephen Sprunk  <stephen@sprunk.org> wrote:
> ...
>>> For example, the US's insistence on not using the metric system.
>>
>>That's more legislative neglect than insistence: Congress feels such
>>things are best left to industry to decide, and industry is (so far)
>>unwilling to take the short-term hit in return for long-term gains.
>
> Kinda "You say tomaytoe, I say tomahtoe".  My view is that industry is by
> nature and certainly by recent (since Reagan) US practice so short sighted
> that they simply don't see any reason to switch.  Why take the hit?
>
> Incidentally, Canada almost succeeded in switching, but failed because of
> the great influence US practice has on their policies.  The result is an
> ugly mishmash, where some things are quoted in metric and other things are
> quoted in US units.  It must be very confusing for them...
>

We did switch and a long time ago. I can't think of any area where
imperial measurements are used though some of us of a certain age may
have mentally flip-flopped at times. If you are under 40 and Canadian I
doubt you would have used imperial measure for anything.

-- 
http://www.softsprocket.com

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#60660 — Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)

FromBartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2015-04-21 18:09 +0100
SubjectRe: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)
Message-ID<mh6064$929$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#60655
On 21/04/2015 16:58, Greg Martin wrote:
> On 2015-04-21, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:

>> Incidentally, Canada almost succeeded in switching, but failed because of
>> the great influence US practice has on their policies.  The result is an
>> ugly mishmash, where some things are quoted in metric and other things are
>> quoted in US units.  It must be very confusing for them...
>>
>
> We did switch and a long time ago. I can't think of any area where
> imperial measurements are used though some of us of a certain age may
> have mentally flip-flopped at times. If you are under 40 and Canadian I
> doubt you would have used imperial measure for anything.

What do you ask for in a Subway, a foot-long sub or a 30.48cm-long one?

What size screen are you looking at now, a 23" (or whatever), or a 58 cm 
one?

Do people still join the mile-high club, is it now the 1.61km-high one? 
Etc. Imperial is still around.

-- 
Bartc

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#60666 — Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)

FromGreg Martin <greg.at.softsprocket@dot.com>
Date2015-04-21 17:42 +0000
SubjectRe: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)
Message-ID<PZvZw.333992$IH4.134893@fx08.iad>
In reply to#60660
On 2015-04-21, Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 21/04/2015 16:58, Greg Martin wrote:
>> On 2015-04-21, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
>
>>> Incidentally, Canada almost succeeded in switching, but failed because of
>>> the great influence US practice has on their policies.  The result is an
>>> ugly mishmash, where some things are quoted in metric and other things are
>>> quoted in US units.  It must be very confusing for them...
>>>
>>
>> We did switch and a long time ago. I can't think of any area where
>> imperial measurements are used though some of us of a certain age may
>> have mentally flip-flopped at times. If you are under 40 and Canadian I
>> doubt you would have used imperial measure for anything.
>
> What do you ask for in a Subway, a foot-long sub or a 30.48cm-long one?
>
> What size screen are you looking at now, a 23" (or whatever), or a 58 cm 
> one?
>
> Do people still join the mile-high club, is it now the 1.61km-high one? 
> Etc. Imperial is still around.
>

Those are linguistic examples more then usage examples. The screen size will be
listed in metric even if the US usage is referenced. 

If you buy a 2x4 in Canada it isn't one and more then 8p nail is in the
USA. 

-- 
http://www.softsprocket.com

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#60709 — Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2015-04-22 10:47 +0200
SubjectRe: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)
Message-ID<mh7n5s$55l$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#60660
On 21/04/15 19:09, Bartc wrote:
> On 21/04/2015 16:58, Greg Martin wrote:
>> On 2015-04-21, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
> 
>>> Incidentally, Canada almost succeeded in switching, but failed
>>> because of
>>> the great influence US practice has on their policies.  The result is an
>>> ugly mishmash, where some things are quoted in metric and other
>>> things are
>>> quoted in US units.  It must be very confusing for them...
>>>
>>
>> We did switch and a long time ago. I can't think of any area where
>> imperial measurements are used though some of us of a certain age may
>> have mentally flip-flopped at times. If you are under 40 and Canadian I
>> doubt you would have used imperial measure for anything.
> 
> What do you ask for in a Subway, a foot-long sub or a 30.48cm-long one?
> 
> What size screen are you looking at now, a 23" (or whatever), or a 58 cm
> one?
> 
> Do people still join the mile-high club, is it now the 1.61km-high one?
> Etc. Imperial is still around.
> 

People in most countries use imperial measurements for some rough
descriptions - but they /measure/ in metric.  Even in thoroughly metric
Norway, there are some things that are described in imperial units,
especially things which came from (or used to come from) the USA or the
UK.  So screens are classified in inches, and small boats are given in feet.

Even in the UK, where people still buy beer in pints and the older
generation use Fahrenheit for warm days (but Celsius when it is below
freezing), measurements are almost always metric unless they are dealing
with Americans.

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#60711 — Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2015-04-22 20:56 +1200
SubjectRe: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)
Message-ID<cpp62fFl9enU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#60709
David Brown wrote:
>
> People in most countries use imperial measurements for some rough
> descriptions - but they /measure/ in metric.  Even in thoroughly metric
> Norway, there are some things that are described in imperial units,
> especially things which came from (or used to come from) the USA or the
> UK.  So screens are classified in inches, and small boats are given in feet.

Tyre sizes are the ultimate hybrid of metric (width) and imperial (rim 
size) measurements.

-- 
Ian Collins

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#60724 — Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)

Fromguinness.tony@gmail.com
Date2015-04-22 03:53 -0700
SubjectRe: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)
Message-ID<d222eebf-b651-411e-9688-679f7b498a20@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#60711
On Wednesday, 22 April 2015 09:56:57 UTC+1, Ian Collins  wrote:
> 
> Tyre sizes are the ultimate hybrid of metric (width) and imperial (rim 
> size) measurements.

This reminds me of a tale my father told me when I was younger:

He'd gone to the local timber yard to get some wood for a DIY project he'd just started.  "What can I get for you, sir?" asked the vendor.

"I need some four-by-two," he replied.

"Sorry, sir.  We now only stock 100x50mm."

"OK, yes, of course - metrication and all that - yes, that will be fine."

"How much do you need, sir?"

"Um, a couple of metres?"

"Sorry, sir.  We only sell it by the foot."

" *splutter* "

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#60746 — Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)

FromStephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org>
Date2015-04-22 11:01 -0500
SubjectRe: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)
Message-ID<mh8gjg$9sr$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#60711
On 22-Apr-15 03:56, Ian Collins wrote:
> David Brown wrote:
>> People in most countries use imperial measurements for some rough 
>> descriptions - but they /measure/ in metric.  Even in thoroughly
>> metric Norway, there are some things that are described in imperial
>> units, especially things which came from (or used to come from) the
>> USA or the UK.  So screens are classified in inches, and small
>> boats are given in feet.
> 
> Tyre sizes are the ultimate hybrid of metric (width) and imperial 
> (rim size) measurements.

Don't forget the middle number, which is a ratio between the sidewall
height and tread width--neither imperial nor metric!  Or the letter,
which is an arbitrary code for the speed rating/tread life.

This is the textbook example of unit confusion.

S

-- 
Stephen Sprunk         "God does not play dice."  --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723         "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS        dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

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#60902 — Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)

Fromgwowen <gwowen@gmail.com>
Date2015-04-23 08:17 -0700
SubjectRe: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)
Message-ID<d72a4db7-633c-4099-bd9d-1ef9c38da1a2@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#60746
On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 at 5:02:00 PM UTC+1, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
> On 22-Apr-15 03:56, Ian Collins wrote:
> > Tyre sizes are the ultimate hybrid of metric (width) and imperial 
> > (rim size) measurements.
> 
> Don't forget the middle number, which is a ratio between the sidewall
> height and tread width--neither imperial nor metric!  Or the letter,
> which is an arbitrary code for the speed rating/tread life.

And that's just car tyres, you should try buying bicycle tyres. These will either be:

i) Imperial [with fractions (28" x 1 3/4) or decimals (28" x 1.75)] - usually on mountain bikes
ii) Metric / ISO [e.g. 622mm]
iii) French [700x23c which is really 700c x 23, which is very much not the same size as 700a x 23. The 23 is "mm" but the 700 used to be but now doesn't really correspond to a physical unit of anything. The key thing is that 700c means "700mm / wide fitting", and that 99.9% of 700c tyres are 622m across and very narrow]

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#60713 — Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2015-04-22 10:21 +0100
SubjectRe: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)
Message-ID<mh7p42$cag$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#60709
On 22/04/15 09:47, David Brown wrote:

<snip>

>
> People in most countries use imperial measurements for some rough
> descriptions - but they /measure/ in metric.

At school, they taught me to use English measurements in day-to-day 
life, and SI measurements in the laboratory. It is a policy that I have 
always dutifully observed.

> Even in thoroughly metric
> Norway, there are some things that are described in imperial units,
> especially things which came from (or used to come from) the USA or the
> UK.  So screens are classified in inches, and small boats are given in feet.

Naturally. (Unless you're sailing across the lab.)

> Even in the UK, where people still buy beer in pints and the older
> generation use Fahrenheit for warm days (but Celsius when it is below
> freezing), measurements are almost always metric unless they are dealing
> with Americans.

I no longer buy beer in pints, but I could if I wanted and I would if I 
did. Despite not yet aspiring to the giddy heights of "older 
generation", I use Fahrenheit /without exception/ for measuring 
temperature (except for scientific applications, where obviously I use 
kelvins instead). I see no reason to switch to Celsius just because the 
temperature drops below 32. (In fact, I see no reason whatsoever for 
Celsius to even exist.) If I happen to be entering a laboratory just as 
the temperature drops below 32, I will gladly switch to the more 
optimistic "high 200s" while trying to figure out how to break enough 
ice to free my dinghy.

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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#60750 — Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)

FromStephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org>
Date2015-04-22 11:17 -0500
SubjectRe: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)
Message-ID<mh8hh5$drk$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#60713
On 22-Apr-15 04:21, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 22/04/15 09:47, David Brown wrote:
>> People in most countries use imperial measurements for some rough 
>> descriptions - but they /measure/ in metric.
> 
> At school, they taught me to use English measurements in day-to-day 
> life, and SI measurements in the laboratory. It is a policy that I
> have always dutifully observed.

In my (US) schools, science classes used metric, but that's it.  As a
result, students promptly forget the metric system as soon as they
graduate--aside from those who go into scientific fields, obviously.

Part of the problem is that without daily use, we don't get a sense of
how "big" the various SI units are; I know what a pound feels like, but
not a kilogram.  Substituting meters for yards and liters for quarts
mostly works, but kilometers and Celsius require a more complicated
conversion.  For the less common units, e.g. Newtons, I don't even know
the non-metric one, so they're mostly irrelevant.

One that really frustrates me is the "kilowatt-hour" since it would be
trivial to use Joules instead.  Ditto for measuring natural gas in ccf
(100 cu ft) vs. liters.  Utilities could just as easily switch to metric
units and nobody would care; most wouldn't even notice!

S

-- 
Stephen Sprunk         "God does not play dice."  --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723         "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS        dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#60754 — Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)

FromDavid Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com>
Date2015-04-22 09:59 -0700
SubjectRe: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)
Message-ID<3d5a4087-a9bf-4f81-8bae-01f1ed2bbf83@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#60750
On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 at 9:17:45 AM UTC-7, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
> On 22-Apr-15 04:21, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> > On 22/04/15 09:47, David Brown wrote:
> >> People in most countries use imperial measurements for some rough 
> >> descriptions - but they /measure/ in metric.
> > 
> > At school, they taught me to use English measurements in day-to-day 
> > life, and SI measurements in the laboratory. It is a policy that I
> > have always dutifully observed.
> 
> In my (US) schools, science classes used metric, but that's it.  As a
> result, students promptly forget the metric system as soon as they
> graduate--aside from those who go into scientific fields, obviously.
> 
> Part of the problem is that without daily use, we don't get a sense of
> how "big" the various SI units are; I know what a pound feels like, but
> not a kilogram.  Substituting meters for yards and liters for quarts
> mostly works, but kilometers and Celsius require a more complicated
> conversion.  For the less common units, e.g. Newtons, I don't even know
> the non-metric one, so they're mostly irrelevant.
> 
> One that really frustrates me is the "kilowatt-hour" since it would be
> trivial to use Joules instead.  Ditto for measuring natural gas in ccf
> (100 cu ft) vs. liters.  Utilities could just as easily switch to metric
> units and nobody would care; most wouldn't even notice!
 
My favorite unit is the acre-foot - used to measure large amounts of water
- an acre of water a foot deep. If you are thinking in terms of resevoirs
it makes perfect sense. I suppose the metric version would be 
hectare-meter but I don't think anybody uses that. 

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#60765 — Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)

FromBartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2015-04-22 18:48 +0100
SubjectRe: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)
Message-ID<mh8mrc$5el$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#60754
On 22/04/2015 17:59, David Kleinecke wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 at 9:17:45 AM UTC-7, Stephen Sprunk wrote:

>> One that really frustrates me is the "kilowatt-hour" since it would be
>> trivial to use Joules instead.  Ditto for measuring natural gas in ccf
>> (100 cu ft) vs. liters.  Utilities could just as easily switch to metric
>> units and nobody would care; most wouldn't even notice!
>
> My favorite unit is the acre-foot - used to measure large amounts of water
> - an acre of water a foot deep. If you are thinking in terms of resevoirs
> it makes perfect sense. I suppose the metric version would be
> hectare-meter but I don't think anybody uses that.

A hectare-metre would simply be 10,000 cubic metres.

So it would be used but without having a specific name (AFAIK) for that 
particular power-of-ten multiple of a cubic metre. Which highlights a 
problem with the metric system where all these different multiples of 
units blend into each other causing confusions and making things more 
error-prone.

Another disadvantage being that a volume expressed in cubic metres could 
refer to almost anything. But acre-foot quantities might be specifically 
associated with volumes of water so such a quantity is less likely to be 
mistakenly given as a medicinal dose if, for example, the decimal point 
was in completely the wrong place.

-- 
Bartc

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#60781 — Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)

FromStephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org>
Date2015-04-22 14:35 -0500
SubjectRe: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)
Message-ID<mh8t4t$28b$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#60765
On 22-Apr-15 12:48, Bartc wrote:
> On 22/04/2015 17:59, David Kleinecke wrote:
>> Stephen Sprunk wrote:
>>> One that really frustrates me is the "kilowatt-hour" since it
>>> would be trivial to use Joules instead.  Ditto for measuring
>>> natural gas in ccf (100 cu ft) vs. liters.  Utilities could just
>>> as easily switch to metric units and nobody would care; most
>>> wouldn't even notice!
>> 
>> My favorite unit is the acre-foot - used to measure large amounts
>> of water - an acre of water a foot deep. If you are thinking in
>> terms of resevoirs it makes perfect sense. I suppose the metric
>> version would be hectare-meter but I don't think anybody uses
>> that.
> 
> A hectare-metre would simply be 10,000 cubic metres.

In the context it's typically used, you're rarely going to have water
that deep, and nobody knows how many hectares their property is anyway.

The acre is somewhat special in the US for historical reasons: most of
the US (by land area, not population) was surveyed into "sections" of
one square mile and homesteaded by quarter-quarter sections (40ac) for
farming or quarter sections (160ac) for ranching.  Virtually everyone,
at least outside urban areas, knows what 40ac looks like; if you have
half a foot of water on your farm, that's obviously 20 acre-feet.

In urban and suburban areas, you just have to deal with inertia; few
people really know what an actual acre looks like, and since lots are
often oddly shaped anyways, you could measure them in square feet or
square meters without affecting much.

> So it would be used but without having a specific name (AFAIK) for
> that particular power-of-ten multiple of a cubic metre. Which
> highlights a problem with the metric system where all these different
> multiples of units blend into each other causing confusions and
> making things more error-prone.

I dunno, I find not having to multiply by constants easier, especially
if I'm doing the math in my head.  What I lack is a sense of whether the
answer "looks right", but that would come with more experience.

> Another disadvantage being that a volume expressed in cubic metres
> could refer to almost anything. But acre-foot quantities might be
> specifically associated with volumes of water so such a quantity is
> less likely to be mistakenly given as a medicinal dose if, for
> example, the decimal point was in completely the wrong place.

Fair enough, but most such errors are off by so much that, if you
actually tried to use them for something, you'd notice the problem.

More troubling are the cases where someone uses the wrong conversion
factor--either within non-SI units or between SI and non-SI units, where
the result may _look_ reasonable but is still quite wrong.  NASA crashed
one of its craft into Mars due to such a mistake, and Air Canada nearly
lost a plane (see "Gimli Glider") due to a similar one.

S

-- 
Stephen Sprunk         "God does not play dice."  --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723         "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS        dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

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#60790 — Re: The Metric system

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.lists@bsb.me.uk>
Date2015-04-22 21:22 +0100
SubjectRe: The Metric system
Message-ID<878udjap5s.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#60765
Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
<snip>
> Another disadvantage being that a volume expressed in cubic metres
> could refer to almost anything.

That can also make for cute facts.  For example, fuel consumption, now
given in l/100km is obviously just an area.  It's small -- typically
less than 1mm^2 -- but it has a physical meaning.  If you ditched your
fuel tank and filled up on the fly by scooping petrol out of a road-side
trench (like some steam trains did for getting water), that area is the
size of pipe you'd need for continuous running.

<snip>
-- 
Ben.

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#61056 — Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)

Fromraltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos)
Date2015-04-25 09:58 +0000
SubjectRe: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)
Message-ID<553b5bdb.6045281@news.xs4all.nl>
In reply to#60765
Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:

> So it would be used but without having a specific name (AFAIK) for that 
> particular power-of-ten multiple of a cubic metre. Which highlights a 
> problem with the metric system where all these different multiples of 
> units blend into each other causing confusions and making things more 
> error-prone.

I don't understand this objection. I also don't understand this feature
of British trivia quizzes where every now and then you get a question on
the line of "a kilometre is how many hectometres" and the candidates
have to _think_ about this even though they proved recently to know that
a hectogram is a tenth of a kilogram.
To me, it's a distinct advantage that a kilosomething is always, always
one thousand of that something, and a decipotrzebie is guaranteed to be
one tenth of a potrzebie even if I don't know quite what a potrzebie
is[1]. You can rely on the metric system. If a certain cable is a
kilogram per metre, then I also know that it's 2 kg per 2 m, 10 kg per
10 m a.k.a. dam, and 1 gram per millimetre.
Now try this in the "less confusing" Imperial system. It's a pound per
yard. _How_ many stones per furlong? It'll probably be something like
22/15, but who knows what factors are going to figure in if we go to
smaller units, not larger? _Not_ something related in any way to that
hypothetical 22/15th, I can tell you that! What's more, if the measure
isn't mass per length but per volume, the factors change _again_.

Really, having problems figuring out that the same metric prefix means
the same factor no matter which unit follows is, to me, very similar to
complaining that it's confusing that both ints and float (and even
structs!) form pointers with * and arrays with []. No sane C programmer
wants int pointers to be int *, float pointers float $, and struct
pointers struct #. No sane person should want different factors for
different real life units, either.

Richard

[1] It's the thickness of MAD #26, by the way.

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#61072 — Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)

FromBartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2015-04-25 12:33 +0100
SubjectRe: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)
Message-ID<mhfu0o$5j7$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61056
On 25/04/2015 10:58, Richard Bos wrote:
> Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>
>> So it would be used but without having a specific name (AFAIK) for that
>> particular power-of-ten multiple of a cubic metre. Which highlights a
>> problem with the metric system where all these different multiples of
>> units blend into each other causing confusions and making things more
>> error-prone.

> To me, it's a distinct advantage that a kilosomething is always, always
> one thousand of that something, and a decipotrzebie is guaranteed to be
> one tenth of a potrzebie even if I don't know quite what a potrzebie
> is[1].

So is a 'thousand' always a thousand of something, as is 1000. You can 
still use the decimal system with imperial measures.

  You can rely on the metric system. If a certain cable is a
> kilogram per metre, then I also know that it's 2 kg per 2 m, 10 kg per
> 10 m a.k.a. dam, and 1 gram per millimetre.
> Now try this in the "less confusing" Imperial system. It's a pound per
> yard. _How_ many stones per furlong?

That just doesn't happen. You use 'stone' for measuring people's weight, 
in a way that everyone understands. You don't need to convert it to 
anything else, and you wouldn't use it for scientific work. But if you 
did, then a stone is 6350.288 grams.

With metric, I frequently get mm and cm mixed up when they occur on 
plans on in measurements. Those 4' laminate floorboards will be 122.0 or 
1220 or 1.220 or 12.20 in metric, according to whether we use cm or mm 
or m or dm. Notice they are always the same digits with the only 
difference being the decimal point so you'd better get it right! 122mm 
is ten times too small, and 1220cm is ten times too big.

In imperial it will be 48 or 4 for inches and feet. The 48 is a multiple 
of 12 which is an extra cue that it probably denotes inches.

BTW here's a little puzzle, try and match following categories of things 
to be measured:

Person's weight (UK)
Sack of potatoes
Markings on rotary kitchen scales
Person's weight (USA)

with the corresponding units chosen from this list (lbs, ounces, stone, 
hundredweight).

In imperial is easy to guess which is which. But now try the same thing 
with metric: (Kg, Kg, Kg, Kg). It's a little bit trickier...

-- 
Bartc

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#61076 — Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)

Fromraltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos)
Date2015-04-25 12:18 +0000
SubjectRe: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)
Message-ID<553b83a9.16235406@news.xs4all.nl>
In reply to#61072
Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:

> On 25/04/2015 10:58, Richard Bos wrote:

> > You can rely on the metric system. If a certain cable is a
> > kilogram per metre, then I also know that it's 2 kg per 2 m, 10 kg per
> > 10 m a.k.a. dam, and 1 gram per millimetre.
> > Now try this in the "less confusing" Imperial system. It's a pound per
> > yard. _How_ many stones per furlong?
> 
> That just doesn't happen. You use 'stone' for measuring people's weight, 
> in a way that everyone understands.

Well, make it how many _tonnes_ per furlong, then. Or per fathom, if
that's also wrong. Or are those only used for bulk coal?

> With metric, I frequently get mm and cm mixed up when they occur on 
> plans on in measurements.

Well, sorry, but I'll have to be harsh, then: that's _your_ problem, not
the system's. Millions upon millions of people in the civilised world
manage not to confuse mm and cm on a daily basis; if you Limeys and your
colonial overlords are too dense to do so, don't blame the SI, blame
your genes and your educational system.

> BTW here's a little puzzle, try and match following categories of things 
> to be measured:
> 
> Person's weight (UK)
> Sack of potatoes
> Markings on rotary kitchen scales
> Person's weight (USA)
> 
> with the corresponding units chosen from this list (lbs, ounces, stone, 
> hundredweight).
> 
> In imperial is easy to guess which is which. But now try the same thing 
> with metric: (Kg, Kg, Kg, Kg). It's a little bit trickier...

On the contrary, it's easier. It's all kg (and not a Kelvin-gram,
either, whatever _that_ is). What could be easier? And you don't even
need to buy three different scales to weigh Limeys, Merkins, and the
rather more intelligent sacks of spuds. You can weigh them all on the
same bathroom scale. Bags of potting soil, too. Very convenient. Hey, if
I can carry a 10-kg sack of soil easily, I can carry a 10-kg toddler! If
I can carry a sack of soil 1/10th a hundredweight - sorry, that should
be 3.5 of the next unit down, whatever that is, dry bushels probably -
I can carry a child weighing... goodness knows how many stones.

Nah, give me the simplicity of knowing what the next unit up is. I can
do without all those prime-number conversion factors.

Richard

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#61081 — Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)

FromBartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2015-04-25 13:51 +0100
SubjectRe: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...)
Message-ID<mhg2j3$lpe$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61076
On 25/04/2015 13:18, Richard Bos wrote:
> Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:

>> BTW here's a little puzzle, try and match following categories of things
>> to be measured:
>>
>> Person's weight (UK)
>> Sack of potatoes
>> Markings on rotary kitchen scales
>> Person's weight (USA)
>>
>> with the corresponding units chosen from this list (lbs, ounces, stone,
>> hundredweight).
>>
>> In imperial is easy to guess which is which. But now try the same thing
>> with metric: (Kg, Kg, Kg, Kg). It's a little bit trickier...
>
> On the contrary, it's easier. It's all kg (and not a Kelvin-gram,
> either, whatever _that_ is). What could be easier?

Yes, it's easy to get it wrong. If there was a quantity associated with 
each, or some context that you had to deduce, then which kg is which 
becomes important.

(Imperial measures sometimes have a pattern that don't even need a unit 
specified. So I can read in an American pulp novel that someone is 38, 
five-ten and 180, and is hit with a length of four-by-two (or shot with 
a .22), and know exactly what it means. A piece of 100x50mm (nominal) 
doesn't quite have the same ring. It could also refer to anything.)

> Nah, give me the simplicity of knowing what the next unit up is. I can
> do without all those prime-number conversion factors.

Presumably you don't have problem with 60 seconds in a minute, and 60 
minutes in an hour, 24 hours in a day, 7 days in a week and so on?

If someone was to bring in a metric system of dividing up a day, you 
would probably rebel against no matter how much sense it all made.

-- 
Bartc

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