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Groups > comp.lang.c > #63278 > unrolled thread

typedef forward declaration

Started byBartc <bc@freeuk.com>
First post2015-06-15 14:08 +0100
Last post2015-07-14 13:14 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 442 — 31 participants

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  typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-15 14:08 +0100
    Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-15 14:23 +0100
      Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-15 09:30 -0700
        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-15 18:01 +0100
          Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-16 09:44 -0700
            Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-16 18:06 +0100
            Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-16 19:22 +0100
              Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-16 19:33 +0100
                Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-16 14:53 -0400
                  Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 09:54 -0700
                    Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-17 11:04 -0700
                      Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 11:11 -0700
                        Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-18 12:00 -0700
                          Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 09:50 -0700
                            Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-19 18:02 +0100
                              Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 10:25 -0700
                                Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-19 20:10 +0100
                            Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-19 18:11 +0100
                              Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 10:40 -0700
                                Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-19 18:58 +0100
                            Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-19 11:35 -0700
                              Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-19 12:31 -0700
                        Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-18 20:47 +0100
                        Re: typedef forward declaration mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2015-06-19 03:35 -0700
                      Re: typedef forward declaration Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-10 17:23 -0700
              Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 09:46 -0700
                Re: typedef forward declaration Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@dqel.com> - 2015-06-17 10:34 -0700
                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 10:43 -0700
                    Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-18 16:00 +0100
                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 08:52 -0700
                        Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-19 10:21 +0200
                          Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-19 11:35 +0100
                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 05:34 -0700
                            Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-19 13:45 +0100
                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 06:23 -0700
                                Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-19 15:55 +0100
                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 08:06 -0700
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-19 16:14 +0100
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 08:41 -0700
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-19 17:19 +0100
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-06-19 21:02 -0400
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-19 18:57 -0700
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 00:59 -0700
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-20 17:25 +0200
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Nathan Wagner <nw@hydaspes.if.org> - 2015-06-21 12:04 +0000
                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-21 13:07 -0700
                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Nathan Wagner <nw@hydaspes.if.org> - 2015-06-23 13:08 +0000
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-10 17:36 -0700
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 01:00 -0700
                                Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-19 08:40 -0700
                                Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-20 08:54 +0000
                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 02:06 -0700
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-20 10:46 +0100
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 03:16 -0700
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-06-20 09:01 -0400
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-20 15:44 +0100
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-20 12:08 -0700
                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-21 21:02 +0100
                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-21 21:24 +0100
                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-21 22:41 +0100
                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 00:08 +0100
                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 05:43 -0700
                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-06-22 08:14 -0500
                                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 07:13 -0700
                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 16:28 +0100
                                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 08:47 -0700
                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 17:25 +0100
                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-22 18:23 +0100
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 19:11 +0100
                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 10:50 -0700
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 19:23 +0100
                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-22 14:38 -0500
                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-22 10:35 -0700
                                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 11:31 -0700
                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-22 12:36 -0700
                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 12:47 -0700
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 21:02 +0100
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Nathan Wagner <nw@hydaspes.if.org> - 2015-06-23 13:04 +0000
                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 06:13 -0700
                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-23 15:26 +0100
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 07:31 -0700
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 07:39 -0700
                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 14:38 +0100
                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-24 09:19 +0000
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-22 13:14 -0700
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-22 20:29 +0000
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-06-23 12:31 -0700
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 12:40 -0700
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration crisdunbar@gmail.com - 2015-06-23 12:48 -0700
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 13:04 -0700
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 21:08 +0100
                            Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-19 14:05 +0100
                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 06:26 -0700
                                Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-19 08:47 -0700
                                Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-19 17:19 +0100
                                Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-20 08:59 +0000
                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 02:10 -0700
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-20 17:34 +0200
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 08:42 -0700
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 08:50 -0700
                                  Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-06-20 16:59 +0000
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-20 18:40 +0100
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-20 12:21 -0700
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-20 21:31 +0100
                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-20 14:07 -0700
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 05:20 -0700
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-22 13:38 +0100
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 05:45 -0700
                                          Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 08:49 -0700
                                            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 08:54 -0700
                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-22 16:54 +0100
                                            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 09:02 -0700
                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-22 21:33 +0100
                              Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 10:00 -0700
                                Re: typedef forward declaration Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-19 22:33 -0500
                                  Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 07:50 -0700
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 08:12 -0700
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-06-20 15:30 +0000
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 08:40 -0700
                            Re: typedef forward declaration Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@dqel.com> - 2015-06-19 10:10 -0700
                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 12:58 -0700
                                Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-19 21:30 +0100
                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 13:34 -0700
                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-19 14:56 -0700
                                Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-19 13:45 -0700
                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 16:26 -0700
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-06-20 12:26 +1200
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 00:40 -0700
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-06-20 20:05 +1200
                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 01:17 -0700
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-19 17:52 -0700
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-06-20 01:12 +0000
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-19 22:35 -0500
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 00:55 -0700
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-20 10:27 +0100
                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 02:31 -0700
                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-20 15:45 +0100
                                              Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-22 15:13 -0400
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-20 11:56 -0700
                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 05:36 -0700
                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-22 17:12 +0100
                                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 09:25 -0700
                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 17:54 +0100
                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 10:58 -0700
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 19:39 +0100
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-22 13:59 -0500
                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-23 10:37 +0200
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 11:01 -0700
                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 09:02 -0700
                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 09:44 -0700
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-12 19:42 +0100
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 11:47 -0700
                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2015-07-12 21:21 +0200
                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 13:32 -0700
                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2015-07-13 09:03 +0200
                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 03:13 -0700
                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-12 21:53 +0100
                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 14:05 -0700
                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 14:30 -0700
                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-13 00:52 +0100
                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-12 20:57 -0400
                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-12 22:52 +0100
                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 16:56 -0700
                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-13 13:22 +1200
                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-13 10:05 +1200
                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 19:04 -0700
                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-13 20:28 +1200
                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-13 09:45 +0100
                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 03:01 -0700
                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-13 11:01 +0100
                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 03:19 -0700
                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-13 19:56 +0000
                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-13 08:27 -0400
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 10:01 -0700
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-13 18:38 +0100
                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-13 12:20 -0700
                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-07-14 11:15 -0700
                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 08:57 -0700
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 23:25 -0700
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-15 12:59 -0400
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-07-20 17:32 +0200
                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 07:22 -0700
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-13 11:58 -0400
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 10:06 -0700
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-07-15 05:24 -0700
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2015-07-13 19:49 +0200
                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 08:08 -0700
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-15 08:32 -0700
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 09:12 -0700
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-15 20:21 -0700
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 09:15 -0700
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-22 12:14 -0700
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 12:17 -0700
                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 20:54 +0100
                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-22 13:16 -0700
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 13:59 -0700
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 22:36 +0100
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-22 14:38 -0700
                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 06:00 -0700
                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 14:37 +0100
                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-23 16:40 +0200
                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 16:14 +0100
                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-23 22:51 +0200
                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 22:06 +0100
                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-06-24 00:14 +0000
                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-24 01:17 +0100
                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-06-24 05:18 +0000
                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-24 09:35 +0100
                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-24 10:43 +0100
                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-24 11:19 -0400
                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-14 07:20 -0700
                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-14 17:55 +0000
                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-15 20:06 -0700
                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-15 23:28 -0500
                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-15 22:06 -0700
                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 09:42 -0700
                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 09:16 -0700
                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 09:27 -0700
                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 07:38 -0700
                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 07:55 -0700
                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-25 21:22 -0500
                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-28 10:41 +0000
                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-28 03:52 -0700
                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-23 22:57 +0200
                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 07:52 -0700
                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-24 17:09 +0200
                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 08:43 -0700
                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 08:47 -0700
                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-24 23:01 +0200
                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-24 17:13 -0400
                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-24 23:40 +0100
                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-06-24 21:38 -0700
                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-25 11:23 +0100
                                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-25 11:36 +0100
                                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-25 11:55 +0100
                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-25 00:46 +0200
                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-06-25 01:47 +0200
                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 05:53 -0700
                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-24 20:24 -0400
                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-25 10:00 +0200
                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 05:51 -0700
                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-25 14:15 +0100
                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 07:54 -0700
                                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 08:08 -0700
                                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-25 16:21 +0100
                                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-25 17:46 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-25 18:16 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-25 19:55 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 11:02 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-06-25 18:30 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-25 12:54 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-26 11:01 +0200
                                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-25 18:03 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-25 18:27 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-25 10:30 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 10:35 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-25 19:07 +0100
                                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-06-26 09:43 +1200
                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-26 11:26 +0200
                                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-06-26 09:45 +1200
                                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 14:51 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-06-26 09:57 +1200
                                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 15:01 -0700
                                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-25 17:24 +0200
                                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 08:30 -0700
                                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-25 16:35 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-25 20:05 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 11:09 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 11:19 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-25 20:04 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-26 11:42 +0200
                                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 05:01 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-26 14:11 +0200
                                                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 05:26 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-27 22:01 +0200
                                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-06-27 20:46 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-27 16:37 -0500
                                                                                                            [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-26 14:25 +0200
                                                                                                              Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 05:31 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-26 14:18 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 06:31 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 08:20 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 08:24 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 10:24 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 10:30 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 13:40 -0700
                                                                                                                            Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-26 14:09 -0700
                                                                                                                            Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 14:23 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-26 22:12 -0700
                                                                                                                                Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 03:03 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-27 13:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-06-27 11:37 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-06-27 13:06 -0700
                                                                                                                                Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 07:51 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 07:55 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-26 08:59 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-27 12:13 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-06-27 08:25 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 08:43 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-06-27 08:55 -0700
                                                                                                                            Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 09:10 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-27 11:25 -0700
                                                                                                              Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-26 08:56 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-27 22:05 +0200
                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-25 12:46 -0400
                                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 10:00 -0700
                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-28 10:58 +0000
                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-28 04:03 -0700
                                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-28 12:43 +0100
                                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-28 06:05 -0700
                                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-28 06:33 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-28 18:28 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-28 10:42 -0700
                                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-28 18:17 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-28 10:32 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-28 20:53 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-28 17:53 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-29 12:10 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-29 04:59 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-29 14:21 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-29 06:40 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-29 17:38 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-29 10:44 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-29 22:10 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-29 15:09 -0700
                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-28 11:43 -0700
                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-28 10:43 +0000
                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-29 08:50 +0200
                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-06-27 12:32 -0400
                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-23 13:17 -0400
                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-23 13:20 -0400
                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 10:25 -0700
                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-24 09:51 +0200
                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-24 12:05 -0400
                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 10:43 -0700
                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-27 12:18 +0000
                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 05:26 -0700
                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-27 14:11 +0100
                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 06:38 -0700
                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-06-27 13:55 +0000
                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 07:15 -0700
                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 07:34 -0700
                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-27 15:56 +0100
                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 08:13 -0700
                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-27 21:35 +0100
                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-06-27 18:58 +0000
                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 12:35 -0700
                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-06-27 13:21 -0400
                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 11:34 -0700
                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-27 12:07 -0700
                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-28 11:02 +0000
                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-28 06:12 -0700
                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-07-03 17:25 +0000
                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-24 11:51 -0700
                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-24 15:17 -0400
                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-24 12:31 -0400
                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2015-06-23 21:11 +0200
                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 20:22 +0100
                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 12:39 -0700
                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-23 01:51 +0100
                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 19:55 -0700
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-06-22 22:51 -0700
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 02:57 -0700
                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 11:08 +0100
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-23 00:00 -0700
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 09:40 +0100
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-23 11:03 +0200
                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 06:06 -0700
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 14:45 +0100
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 11:33 -0700
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-23 15:15 +0100
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 15:23 +0100
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 07:23 -0700
                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 15:50 +0100
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-23 16:51 +0200
                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-22 10:53 -0700
                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 19:26 +0100
                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Nathan Wagner <nw@hydaspes.if.org> - 2015-06-23 13:37 +0000
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-23 07:53 -0700
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-23 17:04 +0200
                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 16:24 +0100
                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-23 08:44 -0700
                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 09:01 -0700
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-23 15:22 -0700
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 07:56 -0700
                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 08:00 -0700
                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-24 08:26 -0700
                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-23 23:06 +0200
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 22:20 +0100
                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-22 21:18 +0100
                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-22 14:21 -0700
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-20 10:30 +0100
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-20 09:08 +0000
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 02:14 -0700
                                  Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-20 09:08 +0000
                  Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 10:52 -0700
                    Re: typedef forward declaration Dr Nick <nospam-4@temporary-address.org.uk> - 2015-06-17 19:52 +0100
                  Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-17 15:32 -0400
                Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-17 19:58 +0100
        Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-15 20:02 +0100
      Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-15 17:40 +0100
        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-15 17:57 +0100
          Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-15 18:37 +0100
            Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-15 18:44 +0100
              Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-15 19:39 +0100
                Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-15 19:45 +0100
          Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-15 20:31 +0100
            Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-15 13:29 -0700
              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-15 19:09 -0700
            Re: typedef forward declaration Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2015-06-15 18:10 -0600
              Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-06-16 00:30 +0000
                Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-15 17:41 -0700
                Re: typedef forward declaration Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2015-06-15 20:58 -0600
            Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-16 09:43 +0100
              Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-16 12:27 +0100
            Re: typedef forward declaration Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-06-16 09:20 -0700
              Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-16 19:18 +0100
        Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-15 10:13 -0700
          Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-15 18:24 +0100
        Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-18 21:47 +0000
    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-15 06:24 -0700
    Re: typedef forward declaration Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2015-06-15 21:20 +0200
    Re: typedef forward declaration luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2015-06-15 18:08 -0700
    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 09:18 -0700
      Re: typedef forward declaration Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2015-06-26 18:46 +0200
        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 10:28 -0700
    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 05:34 -0700
      Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-13 21:40 +0100
        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 09:27 -0700
          Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-14 20:11 +0100
            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 12:20 -0700
              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 12:50 -0700
              Re: typedef forward declaration Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-07-14 16:56 -0700
                Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 17:16 -0700
                  Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-15 01:28 +0100
                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-15 04:38 -0700
                      Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-15 08:54 -0700
                        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-15 08:57 -0700
              Re: typedef forward declaration Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-07-14 17:03 -0700
                Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 05:10 +0000
                  Re: typedef forward declaration Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-07-14 22:59 -0700
    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 13:14 -0700

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#63827

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2015-06-22 17:12 +0100
Message-ID<877fqviuwo.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#63801
"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:

> On Saturday, June 20, 2015 at 2:56:14 PM UTC-4, Keith Thompson wrote:
<snip>
>> Without a single concrete example where it matters, your argument
>> is meaningless, and certainly not worth imposing restrictions
>> on C implementations for a convenience that you don't even take
>> advantage of.
>
> I disagree.

Nothing you say here explains why you disagree with the specific point.
It is a sound point that without even a single example of what you mean
it would be absurd to change the language.

To some extent this is because I think people a being rather polite.
The form "please give an example" sometimes means "I don't think you
know what you are talking about and if you were specific enough about
it, I could probably show you that you are wrong".  I don't want to
suggest that this is what KT means, but it is certainly what I meant.

The fact that you state that you can't give an example (despite it being
an almost daily hassle) settles the matter as far as I am concerned.

> C is full of nebulous concepts which are designed for the
> machine's speed, but not for the programmer's need.

That's one of C's main selling points.  It's not used because of it's
great expressive power.  C will never become Java light.

> An integer is not a finite quantity,

Yes it is -- both mathematically and in C.

> except as applied to a specific machine, and even
> then I'd wager the compiler has the ability to swap it out with another
> type if it deems the optimization acceptable.

I think you might be talking about "the int type" (which is also finite)
rather than "an integer" but that's just a guess.

<snip>
-- 
Ben.

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#63832

From"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
Date2015-06-22 09:25 -0700
Message-ID<8ef26dcf-9111-4867-87cf-4652703bd223@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#63827
On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 12:13:04 PM UTC-4, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:
> > On Saturday, June 20, 2015 at 2:56:14 PM UTC-4, Keith Thompson wrote:
> <snip>
> >> Without a single concrete example where it matters, your argument
> >> is meaningless, and certainly not worth imposing restrictions
> >> on C implementations for a convenience that you don't even take
> >> advantage of.
> >
> > I disagree.
> 
> Nothing you say here explains why you disagree with the specific point.
> It is a sound point that without even a single example of what you mean
> it would be absurd to change the language.

I think there are valid points I'm making, but perhaps not in this
one area. And I get the impression from your posts you're simply
being overly critical of me because you don't like me (or rather
because you don't like the God I serve).

> To some extent this is because I think people a being rather polite.
> The form "please give an example" sometimes means "I don't think you
> know what you are talking about and if you were specific enough about
> it, I could probably show you that you are wrong".  I don't want to
> suggest that this is what KT means, but it is certainly what I meant.

I understood the same from them, and you. And there's something to be
said for politeness as well, Ben.

> The fact that you state that you can't give an example (despite it
> being an almost daily hassle) settles the matter as far as I am
> concerned.

I can't give an example of the pointer size issue. I didn't even
know it existed until this thread. But I have given examples in
other areas.

> > C is full of nebulous concepts which are designed for the
> > machine's speed, but not for the programmer's need.
> 
> That's one of C's main selling points.  It's not used because of
> it's great expressive power.  C will never become Java light.

Of course it is. People program in C because it's the fastest
language with limited bloat. And modern compilers are very good
at working C's quirks into hardware's mechanics.

> > An integer is not a finite quantity,
> Yes it is -- both mathematically and in C.

As I understand it in C, there is a guarantee of a minimum quantity
for an int, but not a maximum quantity. That must be tested against
a constant for that instance of the compiler, and switching to
another compiler or architecture may not yield the same maximum size.

The upper limits are obviously finite mechanically, and ultimately
finite at some point logically in C, but you can't know that without
knowing something that in C you don't know until runtime, or by
examining the include file.

If the variable types were s32, and u32, you would know they are
signed and unsigned 32-bit quantities, and you would know their
limits.

> > except as applied to a specific machine, and even
> > then I'd wager the compiler has the ability to swap it out with another
> > type if it deems the optimization acceptable.
> 
> I think you might be talking about "the int type" (which is also finite)
> rather than "an integer" but that's just a guess.

I'm referring to the "int" type in C. If it was used more often as being
cast to a float, then it might be translated to a float by the compiler,
which then casts it as an int only when needed as an int, for example.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#63833

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2015-06-22 17:54 +0100
Message-ID<mm9eh0$pea$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#63832
On 22/06/15 17:25, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 12:13:04 PM UTC-4, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:
>> > On Saturday, June 20, 2015 at 2:56:14 PM UTC-4, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> <snip>
>> >> Without a single concrete example where it matters, your argument
>> >> is meaningless, and certainly not worth imposing restrictions
>> >> on C implementations for a convenience that you don't even take
>> >> advantage of.
>> >
>> > I disagree.
>>
>> Nothing you say here explains why you disagree with the specific point.
>> It is a sound point that without even a single example of what you mean
>> it would be absurd to change the language.
>
> I think there are valid points I'm making, but perhaps not in this
> one area.

If you are making valid points, you will be able to defend them in peer 
review. That's partly how you know they're valid - because they can 
withstand attacks.

> And I get the impression from your posts you're simply
> being overly critical of me because you don't like me (or rather
> because you don't like the God I serve).

I don't get that impression of Ben at all. I get the impression from his 
posts that he is a reasonable guy who knows an *awful* lot about 
programming in general and C in particular, and who is prepared to spend 
some of his spare (unpaid) time sharing that knowledge with you (and 
with me). I doubt very much whether the fact that you are a Christian 
has any bearing whatsoever on Ben's attitude to you. Why do I doubt it? 
Because it doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on his attitude to /me/. 
So if it were true that Ben were overly critical of you because you're a 
Christian, he'd be overly critical of me, too. But he isn't. He 
criticises what I write from time to time, and mostly he's right and, 
although I can't quite recall an occasion right now, it may well be that 
occasionally he's wrong. If he /is/ wrong to criticise, it is possible 
to defend against that criticism on technical grounds. You don't have to 
resort to assuming an ad hominem attack where none exists.

>> To some extent this is because I think people a being rather polite.
>> The form "please give an example" sometimes means "I don't think you
>> know what you are talking about and if you were specific enough about
>> it, I could probably show you that you are wrong".  I don't want to
>> suggest that this is what KT means, but it is certainly what I meant.
>
> I understood the same from them, and you. And there's something to be
> said for politeness as well, Ben.

Which is why he's being polite.

>> The fact that you state that you can't give an example (despite it
>> being an almost daily hassle) settles the matter as far as I am
>> concerned.
>
> I can't give an example of the pointer size issue. I didn't even
> know it existed until this thread.

I /still/ don't know it exists. *WHAT* pointer issue? What issue do you 
imagine exists with pointer sizes?

<snip>

>> > An integer is not a finite quantity,
>> Yes it is -- both mathematically and in C.
>
> As I understand it in C, there is a guarantee of a minimum quantity
> for an int, but not a maximum quantity.

int must be able to represent all values in the range -32767 to +32767. 
That the language does not impose a maximum limit on the range does not 
mean that ints are infinite in range.

> That must be tested against
> a constant for that instance of the compiler, and switching to
> another compiler or architecture may not yield the same maximum size.

Right, but there's a vast difference between "rather wider on Machine A 
than on Machine B" and "infinite". In fact, the difference is infinite.

> The upper limits are obviously finite mechanically,

Right.

> and ultimately
> finite at some point logically in C, but you can't know that without
> knowing something that in C you don't know until runtime, or by
> examining the include file.

You may not know the exact size until you check INT_MAX and INT_MIN, but 
you can and do certainly know that that size is not infinite. "Infinite" 
means "boundless" (that is, devoid of at least one relevant bound), but 
ints are clearly bounded by INT_MIN and INT_MAX. You know there's an 
edge, even if you don't happen to know (without peeking) precisely where 
that edge is.

> If the variable types were s32, and u32, you would know they are
> signed and unsigned 32-bit quantities, and you would know their
> limits.

Here's a parable for you (2 Limits 8:17-29)

17 A man went to the shop to buy some sweets. 18 He asked the shopkeeper 
for a bag of chocolate limes, so the shopkeeper fetched down the jar of 
chocolate limes, 19 took a paper bag off the counter, poured the sweets 
into it from the jar, and handed the bag to his customer. 20 The man 
paid for the sweets, and headed for the door. 21 A friend of his 
happened to be passing, and the man offered a chocolate lime to his 
friend. 22 This friend was so delighted by this forgotten pleasure that 
he entered the shop to buy some for himself. 23 He went to the counter 
and asked the shopkeeper for a pound of chocolate limes. 24 The 
shopkeeper measured out a pound of the sweets on his scales, poured them 
into a bag, and took the money. 25 The friend then returned outside, 
where the first man was waiting. 26 "These should last me a while. I 
bought a whole pound", said the friend. 27 The first man smiled, and 
said, "Ah, I was wiser than you. 28 I don't know how many sweets I 
bought. 29 Therefore, they will last me forever."

Ignorance of a specific limiting value does not imply that there is /no/ 
limiting value.

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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#63842

From"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
Date2015-06-22 10:58 -0700
Message-ID<995bb2f7-b749-4a85-9922-41368a14f8ee@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#63833
On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 12:54:21 PM UTC-4, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 22/06/15 17:25, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > I think there are valid points I'm making, but perhaps not in this
> > one area.
> 
> If you are making valid points, you will be able to defend them in peer 
> review. That's partly how you know they're valid - because they can 
> withstand attacks.

I agree. In some cases there are people who place greater emphasis
on certain parts, and as a result there is disagreement.

I place greater emphasis on C being a core C which has finite
values on things, and then there are extensions going out to
all areas beyond that.

> > And I get the impression from your posts you're simply
> > being overly critical of me because you don't like me (or rather
> > because you don't like the God I serve).
> 
> I don't get that impression of Ben at all. [snip]

I know you don't. You and Ben are similar kinds of people.

> > I understood the same from them, and you. And there's something to be
> > said for politeness as well, Ben.
> 
> Which is why he's being polite.

He's being condescendingly polite, but the purpose of his comments
are not polite. They are argumentative and disrespectful.

I know you disagree on this point. We'll just have to agree to
disagree.

> > I can't give an example of the pointer size issue. I didn't even
> > know it existed until this thread.
> 
> I /still/ don't know it exists. *WHAT* pointer issue? What issue do you 
> imagine exists with pointer sizes?

It was posted earlier in this thread, or possibly in another. Something
about pointers possibly being different sizes, and that casting from
one to the other was not allowed.

> >> > An integer is not a finite quantity,
> >> Yes it is -- both mathematically and in C.

To be clear, my use of the word "finite" here meant that in the C
language definition, it was defined to be in this range only. As
it is with C it is variable per compiler version, though guaranteed
to be at least a particular minimum size, but you don't know how
big it can be by definition without referring to constants.

I also believe that my point was obvious because the fact that numbers
in programming languages are finite is also obvious.

> Right, but there's a vast difference between "rather wider on Machine A 
> than on Machine B" and "infinite". In fact, the difference is infinite.

I never said it was infinite. I said it was not finite.

> Ignorance of a specific limiting value does not imply that there is /no/ 
> limiting value.

I was referring to the constants in my reply. They are the sources
you'd have to identify to know the true upper limits. And there is
no guarantee in C that you would have the same values in another
version of the compiler, another compiler, another architecture, etc.
Only the minimums are provided for. As such, it is not finite. It is
variable.

This will be my last reply to you, Richard. Good day.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#63847

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2015-06-22 19:39 +0100
Message-ID<mm9kmu$jdh$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#63842
On 22/06/15 18:58, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 12:54:21 PM UTC-4, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 22/06/15 17:25, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> > I think there are valid points I'm making, but perhaps not in this
>> > one area.
>>
>> If you are making valid points, you will be able to defend them in peer
>> review. That's partly how you know they're valid - because they can
>> withstand attacks.
>
> I agree. In some cases there are people who place greater emphasis
> on certain parts, and as a result there is disagreement.

Technical disagreements can be resolved with reference to the Standard. 
Other disagreements are often a matter of taste, about which dispute - 
while diverting - has long been acknowledged to be fruitless.

> I place greater emphasis on C being a core C which has finite
> values on things, and then there are extensions going out to
> all areas beyond that.

I would call the "core C" of which you speak the common subset of C90 
and subsequent revisions of the Standard. Some would exclude C90 from 
that, mostly so that they can get their greedy paws on long long.

>> > And I get the impression from your posts you're simply
>> > being overly critical of me because you don't like me (or rather
>> > because you don't like the God I serve).
>>
>> I don't get that impression of Ben at all. [snip]
>
> I know you don't. You and Ben are similar kinds of people.

I wouldn't have said that, but it's interesting that you did. Thank you 
for the compliment.

>> > I understood the same from them, and you. And there's something to be
>> > said for politeness as well, Ben.
>>
>> Which is why he's being polite.
>
> He's being condescendingly polite, but the purpose of his comments
> are not polite. They are argumentative and disrespectful.

Would you rather he told you to go explete yourself? If you want Ben's 
respect, you'll have to earn it. If you don't want his respect, why do 
you care? As for "argumentative", well, *of course*! This is a 
discussion newsgroup, not a Cabinet meeting.

> I know you disagree on this point. We'll just have to agree to
> disagree.

I agree that I disagree, but I'm not sure that I agree that we have to 
agree to disagree. Would you settle for disagreeing about agreeing?

>> > I can't give an example of the pointer size issue. I didn't even
>> > know it existed until this thread.
>>
>> I /still/ don't know it exists. *WHAT* pointer issue? What issue do you
>> imagine exists with pointer sizes?
>
> It was posted earlier in this thread, or possibly in another. Something
> about pointers possibly being different sizes, and that casting from
> one to the other was not allowed.

I recall the discussion. It basically consisted of:

"Eek! There's a problem with pointers of different sizes!"
"No there isn't."

It is true that, while C guarantees, for complete object types, that:

T obj;
T *p = &obj;
void *v = p;
T *q = v;
printf("%s.\n", p == q ? "true" : "false");

will print true, but that the opposite conversion (void * to T * and 
then back to void *) is not guaranteed, but nobody has yet managed to 
explain with any degree of conviction and persuasiveness that this 
constitutes an actual problem in the real world.

>> >> > An integer is not a finite quantity,
>> >> Yes it is -- both mathematically and in C.
>
> To be clear, my use of the word "finite" here meant that in the C
> language definition, it was defined to be in this range only. As
> it is with C it is variable per compiler version, though guaranteed
> to be at least a particular minimum size, but you don't know how
> big it can be by definition without referring to constants.
>
> I also believe that my point was obvious because the fact that numbers
> in programming languages are finite is also obvious.
>
>> Right, but there's a vast difference between "rather wider on Machine A
>> than on Machine B" and "infinite". In fact, the difference is infinite.
>
> I never said it was infinite. I said it was not finite.

Let's throw this open to the floor. Does *anyone* other than Rick see a 
difference in semantics between "infinite" and "not finite"? Answers 
from mathematicians particularly welcome.

>> Ignorance of a specific limiting value does not imply that there is /no/
>> limiting value.
>
> I was referring to the constants in my reply. They are the sources
> you'd have to identify to know the true upper limits. And there is
> no guarantee in C that you would have the same values in another
> version of the compiler, another compiler, another architecture, etc.
> Only the minimums are provided for. As such, it is not finite. It is
> variable.
>
> This will be my last reply to you, Richard. Good day.

What, *another* last reply to me? :-)

Seriously, that's entirely up to you. This probably won't be my last 
reply to one of your articles, though.


-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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#63849

FromMartin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com>
Date2015-06-22 13:59 -0500
Message-ID<mm9ls9$oau$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#63847
On 6/22/2015 1:39 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 22/06/15 18:58, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 12:54:21 PM UTC-4, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>> On 22/06/15 17:25, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> Right, but there's a vast difference between "rather wider on Machine A
>>> than on Machine B" and "infinite". In fact, the difference is infinite.

>> I never said it was infinite. I said it was not finite.

> Let's throw this open to the floor. Does *anyone* other than Rick see a
> difference in semantics between "infinite" and "not finite"? Answers
> from mathematicians particularly welcome.

Not exactly a mathematician, but I have studied the matter some. In 
every case I can come up with, infinite is defined as not finite or 
finite is defined as not infinite.

Martin Shobe

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#63891

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2015-06-23 10:37 +0200
Message-ID<mmb5q3$59e$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#63849
On 22/06/15 20:59, Martin Shobe wrote:
> On 6/22/2015 1:39 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 22/06/15 18:58, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 12:54:21 PM UTC-4, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>> On 22/06/15 17:25, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>>> Right, but there's a vast difference between "rather wider on Machine A
>>>> than on Machine B" and "infinite". In fact, the difference is infinite.
> 
>>> I never said it was infinite. I said it was not finite.
> 
>> Let's throw this open to the floor. Does *anyone* other than Rick see a
>> difference in semantics between "infinite" and "not finite"? Answers
>> from mathematicians particularly welcome.
> 
> Not exactly a mathematician, but I have studied the matter some. In
> every case I can come up with, infinite is defined as not finite or
> finite is defined as not infinite.
> 

<AOL> Me too! </AOL>

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#65321

FromTim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu>
Date2015-07-11 11:01 -0700
Message-ID<kfnoajiwp3e.fsf@x-alumni2.alumni.caltech.edu>
In reply to#63847
Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:

> Let's throw this open to the floor.  Does *anyone* other than Rick
> see a difference in semantics between "infinite" and "not finite"?
> Answers from mathematicians particularly welcome.

Mathematical types often do distinguish between 'infinite' and
'unbounded'.  For example, a tape on a Turing machine is not
infinite, but it is unbounded.  From a technical viewpoint
the size of a C integer type (other than a character type)
is not infinite, but it is unbounded, at least as far as the
Standard is concerned.

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#65414

FromDavid Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com>
Date2015-07-12 09:02 -0700
Message-ID<fab9e20c-c809-4ae2-8d38-4b7894082b2d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#65321
On Saturday, July 11, 2015 at 11:01:34 AM UTC-7, Tim Rentsch wrote:
> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
> 
> > Let's throw this open to the floor.  Does *anyone* other than Rick
> > see a difference in semantics between "infinite" and "not finite"?
> > Answers from mathematicians particularly welcome.
> 
> Mathematical types often do distinguish between 'infinite' and
> 'unbounded'.  For example, a tape on a Turing machine is not
> infinite, but it is unbounded.  From a technical viewpoint
> the size of a C integer type (other than a character type)
> is not infinite, but it is unbounded, at least as far as the
> Standard is concerned.

I think I qualify as a mathematician - I have a doctorate and a 
couple of publications - even if I have drifted away these days.

A set is said to have an infinite number of members if it can be
mapped one-to-one with a proper subset of itself. A set that does
not have an infinite number of memeber is said to be "finite".

I think a mathematician would be happy to call anything that is
not finite "infinite" and I believe they would not make any 
distinction between unbounded and infinite. 

In a Turing machine the tape is zero outside of a bounded region 
but it must be conceptually infinite. 

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#65419

From"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
Date2015-07-12 09:44 -0700
Message-ID<a81ca40e-4a11-47ca-be22-a63ad73bbdb3@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#65414
I'm not a mathematician, and here's what I
meant:

    (1) On machine A, int is 16 bits.
    (2) On machine B, int is 32 bits.
    (3) On machine C, int is 36 bits.
    (4) Et cetera

It's not a finite quantity across machines, but
only on each machine individually, and in the
encapsulated existence of itself, and its related
brothers and sisters (machines with the same
sizes for int, et al).

If there's a better term there than not finite, I'm
content to use it. And might I add: it's not worth
blowing a gasket over. :-) It was just a statement.

Let's try to work together and not rigidly attack
others when terminology may not be correct,
but let's instead try to be understanding and
accommodating of each other.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#65438

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2015-07-12 19:42 +0100
Message-ID<87615pqktb.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#65419
"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:

> I'm not a mathematician, and here's what I
> meant:
>
>     (1) On machine A, int is 16 bits.
>     (2) On machine B, int is 32 bits.
>     (3) On machine C, int is 36 bits.
>     (4) Et cetera
>
> It's not a finite quantity across machines,

The problem (as so often is the case) is the "it".  It (the size of an
int) is finite.  It (the size of a C int) is always finite, both in
practice and in theory.  It (the set of possible sizes for an int) is
not finite.

<snip>
-- 
Ben.

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#65439

From"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
Date2015-07-12 11:47 -0700
Message-ID<ce48c8dd-4875-47c4-8dd1-ae0fb9f17693@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#65438
On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 2:42:49 PM UTC-4, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > I'm not a mathematician, and here's what I
> > meant:
> >
> >     (1) On machine A, int is 16 bits.
> >     (2) On machine B, int is 32 bits.
> >     (3) On machine C, int is 36 bits.
> >     (4) Et cetera
> >
> > It's not a finite quantity across machines,
> 
> The problem (as so often is the case) is the "it".  It (the size of an
> int) is finite.  It (the size of a C int) is always finite, both in
> practice and in theory.  It (the set of possible sizes for an int) is
> not finite.

It's not finite. It's only finite on a single machine, or in a class
of machine (where the int is the same size in bytes as on other machines
of the same class).

If I write a file to disk using int on machine A, and then go to read it
in on machine B, it is not a guarantee that the int being read will be
the same size, or same endian.  It requires additional knowledge beyond
mere use of the int value written to disk.

It is a glaring shortcoming in C in my assessment.  There should've been
from the beginning a fixed size that could be used, with something like
int being used for speed, whereas the i32/s32 signed 32-bit ingeger, and
u32 unsigned form, would be available as well.

Just my opinion.  But, it does lend itself to this error across machines
even here in 2015 when using only int.  It's why I think we need to
settle on a default endian size in C, and introduce the fundamental
types which are not int8_t and others, but the simpler i8/s8 and u8,
and so on.  Those forms would always be little-endian (or big-endian),
and would always be those sizes in memory and in computation, regardless
of how they're physically wielded using the CPU resources.

Again, only my opinion.  But in all honest, it makes so much sense that
I honestly can't even understand why others would want it another way.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#65443

FromRosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid>
Date2015-07-12 21:21 +0200
Message-ID<u3f5qa1153gb35493qji897g1s70luk2bg@4ax.com>
In reply to#65439
On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 11:47:42 -0700 (PDT), "Rick C. Hodgin" wrote:
>On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 2:42:49 PM UTC-4, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:
>> 
>> > I'm not a mathematician, and here's what I
>> > meant:
>> >
>> >     (1) On machine A, int is 16 bits.
>> >     (2) On machine B, int is 32 bits.
>> >     (3) On machine C, int is 36 bits.
>> >     (4) Et cetera
>> >
>> > It's not a finite quantity across machines,
>> 
>> The problem (as so often is the case) is the "it".  It (the size of an
>> int) is finite.  It (the size of a C int) is always finite, both in
>> practice and in theory.  It (the set of possible sizes for an int) is
>> not finite.
>
>It's not finite. It's only finite on a single machine, or in a class
>of machine (where the int is the same size in bytes as on other machines
>of the same class).
>
>If I write a file to disk using int on machine A, and then go to read it
>in on machine B, it is not a guarantee that the int being read will be
>the same size, or same endian.  It requires additional knowledge beyond
>mere use of the int value written to disk.
>
>It is a glaring shortcoming in C in my assessment.  There should've been
>from the beginning a fixed size that could be used, with something like
>int being used for speed, whereas the i32/s32 signed 32-bit ingeger, and
>u32 unsigned form, would be available as well.
>
>Just my opinion.  But, it does lend itself to this error across machines
>even here in 2015 when using only int.  It's why I think we need to
>settle on a default endian size in C, 

if i think one little endian cpu
that execute instruction as big endian cpu...

this mean *each* instruction there would be 2 trasformations
big endian (1)-> little endian -> execute instruction (2)-> big endian

not seems to me the right way

>and introduce the fundamental
>types which are not int8_t and others, but the simpler i8/s8 and u8,
>and so on.  Those forms would always be little-endian (or big-endian),
>and would always be those sizes in memory and in computation, regardless
>of how they're physically wielded using the CPU resources.
>
>Again, only my opinion.  But in all honest, it makes so much sense that
>I honestly can't even understand why others would want it another way.
>
>Best regards,
>Rick C. Hodgin

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#65450

From"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
Date2015-07-12 13:32 -0700
Message-ID<3be14243-0f6c-4b25-816c-f2df4dedf129@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#65443
Rosario19 wrote:
> if i think one little endian cpu that execute
> instruction as big endian cpu...
>
> this mean *each* instruction there would be 2
> trasformations big endian
> (1)-> little endian -> execute instruction
> (2)-> big endian
>
> not seems to me the right way

It would not have to be that way except for the
variable types that are defined to be little endian.
And for them it would only need to be that way
for loads and stores. Once in the CPU's registers,
the compiler is free to compute however it wants.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#65469

FromRosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid>
Date2015-07-13 09:03 +0200
Message-ID<48o6qa9pliktagdj6icp904i1o31qnhl5k@4ax.com>
In reply to#65450
On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 13:32:54 -0700 (PDT), "Rick C. Hodgin" wrote:
>Rosario19 wrote:
>> if i think one little endian cpu that execute
>> instruction as big endian cpu...
>>
>> this mean *each* instruction there would be 2
>> trasformations big endian
>> (1)-> little endian -> execute instruction
>> (2)-> big endian
>>
>> not seems to me the right way
>
>It would not have to be that way except for the
>variable types that are defined to be little endian.

>And for them it would only need to be that way
>for loads and stores. 

for loads and stores in memory
but % of code read-store in memory is not little

>Once in the CPU's registers,
>the compiler is free to compute however it wants.

so compiler can use cpu endian 
but the data store in memory has to have 
'endian' one choose...

i know i don't know etc; 
at 90% possible it is wrong what i say

>Best regards,
>Rick C. Hodgin

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#65474

From"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
Date2015-07-13 03:13 -0700
Message-ID<4ea370a2-f983-4374-83c2-254912553503@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#65469
Rosario19 wrote:
> so compiler can use cpu endian but the data
> store in memory has to have 'endian' one
> choose...

For (1) those types I propose which use a new
type which is an explicitly-endianed type, or (2)
for those types which convey endian type overrides.

In the spirit of C:

    int32_t_big_endian_override_storage ibe:
    int32_t_little_endian_override_storage ile;

Or simply define new types to be little endian always:

    s32 ile;  // use defined little endian type
    int i;  // use natural machine endianness

And provide "volatile"-like overrides to explicitly
convey info on each variable:

    big int ibe;
    little int ile;

(This idea I believe came from Keith Thompson,
I believe... explicitly naming the endianness.)

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#65451

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2015-07-12 21:53 +0100
Message-ID<87vbdpp066.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#65439
"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 2:42:49 PM UTC-4, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:
>> 
>> > I'm not a mathematician, and here's what I
>> > meant:
>> >
>> >     (1) On machine A, int is 16 bits.
>> >     (2) On machine B, int is 32 bits.
>> >     (3) On machine C, int is 36 bits.
>> >     (4) Et cetera
>> >
>> > It's not a finite quantity across machines,
>> 
>> The problem (as so often is the case) is the "it".  It (the size of an
>> int) is finite.  It (the size of a C int) is always finite, both in
>> practice and in theory.  It (the set of possible sizes for an int) is
>> not finite.
>
> It's not finite.  It's only finite on a single machine, or in a class
> of machine (where the int is the same size in bytes as on other machines
> of the same class).

Please re-write those sentences without using "it" (or some equivalent)
and we will probably agree.  The first sentence is wrong, as it stands,
but since you deliberately decided to abuse the very word that I said
was the problem, I can only assume that you just want to keep going
round in a pantomime loop of "oh yes it is", "oh no it isn't".  I don't
really want to do that.

<snip>
> Again, only my opinion.  But in all honest, it makes so much sense that
> I honestly can't even understand why others would want it another way.

Ah, that's one of the great things about Usenet (and global
communication in general).  I would never have believed that there
really are people who want things the way you want them, had it not been
for such communication.

-- 
Ben.

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#65452

From"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
Date2015-07-12 14:05 -0700
Message-ID<396edab4-5f49-464c-9434-933de09d3499@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#65451
Int it is not finite. It has a minimum value that
is known, but no upper value that is known (apart
from examination of min/max constants, and
those can vary between compiler versions, or
machines, etc.). But if I'm writing portable C
code, I cannot use int beyond its mins/maxs.

It is only finite within the confines and encapsulation
of the machine, or within the general guidance
that there just aren't generally machines larger
than 64 bits.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#65456

From"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
Date2015-07-12 14:30 -0700
Message-ID<582c9e71-ff18-49d7-8b7f-520e82638f1c@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#65452
On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 5:05:32 PM UTC-4, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> ...But if I'm writing portable C
> code, I cannot use int beyond its mins/maxs.

The mins/maxs I'm referring to here are the +/- approx. 32768, not the
ones found in the limits.h file, because on one machine the INT_MIN
and INT_MAX might be +/- approx. 32768.  On another it might include
many more bits, and much larger min/max values.

If I'm going to limit myself to the C defined maximum, then there is
still an issue involved because when I go to save a value that will
fit in 16 bits, it may not be saved as 16 bits on disk, but because
int on this particular machine is mechanically represented by 36 bits,
now I'm writing 20 extra bits per value, which when I read it in on
the next computer, will fail unless it happens to also use the 36 bit
format.

Do you see what I'm talking about, Ben?  I may not be saying it in
the proper words as per your usage, or even the industry standard
usage, but surely you can compensate for my shortcomings in this area
and understand the point I'm trying to make?

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#65464

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2015-07-13 00:52 +0100
Message-ID<87wpy5ndbe.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#65456
"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 5:05:32 PM UTC-4, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> ...But if I'm writing portable C
>> code, I cannot use int beyond its mins/maxs.
>
> The mins/maxs I'm referring to here are the +/- approx. 32768, not the
> ones found in the limits.h file, because on one machine the INT_MIN
> and INT_MAX might be +/- approx. 32768.  On another it might include
> many more bits, and much larger min/max values.
>
> If I'm going to limit myself to the C defined maximum, then there is
> still an issue involved because when I go to save a value that will
> fit in 16 bits, it may not be saved as 16 bits on disk, but because
> int on this particular machine is mechanically represented by 36 bits,
> now I'm writing 20 extra bits per value, which when I read it in on
> the next computer, will fail unless it happens to also use the 36 bit
> format.
>
> Do you see what I'm talking about, Ben?  I may not be saying it in
> the proper words as per your usage, or even the industry standard
> usage, but surely you can compensate for my shortcomings in this area
> and understand the point I'm trying to make?

I am pretty sure I know what you are saying and I don't think we
disagree about a single underlying fact.  I disagree about only two
things: what you actually say and why you are saying it.  The what is
easy -- it's just the words coming out wrong.  Why you are saying it
much more problematic.  What is it about the lack of an upper bound on
the size of int that bothers you?  If the standard said that no
implementation would have an int bigger than a thousand gazillion bits,
how would your coding change?

-- 
Ben.

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