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Help creating a C class

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  Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 17:36 -0700
    Re: Help creating a C class gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2017-06-17 02:16 +0000
      Re: Help creating a C class "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-06-16 21:27 -0700
    Re: Help creating a C class "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-06-16 21:16 -0700
      Re: Help creating a C class "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-06-17 12:24 -0700
    Re: Help creating a C class GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-06-17 08:06 +0200
      Re: Help creating a C class Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2017-06-17 13:15 -0400
        Re: Help creating a C class "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-06-17 12:27 -0700
          Re: Help creating a C class David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-06-17 12:49 -0700
            Re: Help creating a C class "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-06-21 13:47 -0700
    Re: Help creating a C class Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-17 12:03 +0100
      Re: Help creating a C class GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-06-17 13:38 +0200
    Re: Help creating a C class "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-06-17 14:11 +0200
      Re: Help creating a C class Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-17 16:20 +0100
    Re: Help creating a C class supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-17 10:39 -0700
    Re: Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-17 17:05 -0700
      Re: Help creating a C class Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-18 02:31 +0100
        Re: Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-17 21:37 -0700
        Re: Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 11:24 -0700
    Re: Help creating a C class David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-18 15:15 +0200
      Re: Help creating a C class bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-18 15:02 +0100
        Re: Help creating a C class David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-18 17:18 +0200
          Re: Help creating a C class bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-18 17:04 +0100
            Re: Help creating a C class David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-18 23:06 +0200
      Re: Help creating a C class GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 01:05 +0200
        Re: Help creating a C class Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2017-06-18 19:28 -0400
          Re: Help creating a C class GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 01:31 +0200
          Re: Help creating a C class Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-06-18 21:28 -0400
            Re: Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-18 18:39 -0700
              Re: Help creating a C class Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2017-06-18 23:42 -0700
                Re: Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 01:30 -0700
                  Re: Help creating a C class Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 09:33 -0700
                Re: Help creating a C class gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2017-06-19 10:48 +0000
              Re: Help creating a C class David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-19 11:11 +0200
                Re: Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 02:25 -0700
                  Re: Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 03:17 -0700
                    Re: Help creating a C class David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-19 12:42 +0200
                    Re: Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 05:35 -0700
                      Re: Help creating a C class bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-19 14:51 +0100
                        Re: Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 07:03 -0700
                        Re: Help creating a C class David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 17:31 -0700
                          Re: Help creating a C class "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-06-19 17:47 -0700
                          Re: Help creating a C class bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-06-20 10:25 +0100
                    Re: Help creating a C class Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-19 14:09 +0100
                      Re: Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 06:13 -0700
                        Re: Help creating a C class Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-06-19 17:05 +0100
                          Re: Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 09:15 -0700
                            Re: Help creating a C class "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-06-21 13:30 -0700
                              Re: Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 14:29 -0700
                        Re: Help creating a C class Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-06-30 10:15 -0400
                          Re: Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-30 07:33 -0700
          Re: Help creating a C class David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-19 11:28 +0200
        Re: Help creating a C class "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-06-18 16:42 -0700
        Re: Help creating a C class raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-06-26 06:04 +0000
          Re: Help creating a C class David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-06-26 09:15 -0700
    Re: Help creating a C class joel.rees@gmail.com - 2017-06-18 17:35 -0700
    Re: Help creating a C class Leon Taylor <leontaylor476@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 05:59 -0700
    Help creating a C class asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2017-06-19 07:53 -0700
    Re: Help creating a C class John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 07:16 -0700
      Re: Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 07:45 -0700
    Re: Help creating a C class "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 23:20 +0800
      Re: Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 08:40 -0700
        Re: Help creating a C class gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2017-06-20 16:22 +0000
          Re: Help creating a C class "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 00:27 +0800
          Re: Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 09:34 -0700
            Re: Help creating a C class "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 00:38 +0800
              Re: Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 09:43 -0700
                Re: Help creating a C class "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 21:37 +0800
                  Re: Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 06:58 -0700
                    Re: Help creating a C class "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 22:10 +0800
                      Re: Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 08:08 -0700
                        Re: Help creating a C class "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 23:20 +0800
                          Re: Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 08:24 -0700
                            Re: Help creating a C class "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 23:27 +0800
                              Re: Help creating a C class "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 08:39 -0700
                                [OT] "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 23:46 +0800
                                  Re: [OT] "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 09:03 -0700
                                    Re: [OT] "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 00:15 +0800
                                    Re: [OT] "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2017-06-25 22:59 +0800
        Re: Help creating a C class "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 00:25 +0800

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#112377 — Help creating a C class

I'm interested in teaching a beginning C class to a group of about ten
students ranging in age from teenager through sixty years old.

It will be two hours, and I was wondering if any of you would like to
contribute some ideas for an outline for a class like that?

My initial thinking is:

    Brief history of C
    C's impact on computer languages
    The build process (high level)
    Basic structure of a C source file
    Header files and the C Standard Library
    Edit our first "Hello world" program
    Compiling
    Linking
    Running
    Debugging
    Language basics (types, macros, flow)
    Language features (structs, output targets)

I would give them a free / open source integrated C compiler with
built-in editor and debugger to run on Windows.  I would take them
through the basic philosophy of "Why C?" and "How C?"

I would appreciate any input or guidance.

Thank you,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#112379

In article <f63da28b-5e80-4a02-bfa3-f8f68708ad8d@googlegroups.com>,
Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> wrote:
>I'm interested in teaching a beginning C class to a group of about ten
>students ranging in age from teenager through sixty years old.
>
>It will be two hours, and I was wondering if any of you would like to
>contribute some ideas for an outline for a class like that?

Prototyping main()

Not casting the return value of malloc()

-- 
Atheism:
    It's like being the only sober person in the car, and nobody will let you drive.

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#112383

On 6/16/2017 7:16 PM, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article <f63da28b-5e80-4a02-bfa3-f8f68708ad8d@googlegroups.com>,
> Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm interested in teaching a beginning C class to a group of about ten
>> students ranging in age from teenager through sixty years old.
>>
>> It will be two hours, and I was wondering if any of you would like to
>> contribute some ideas for an outline for a class like that?
> 
> Prototyping main()
> 
> Not casting the return value of malloc()
> 

Indeed! :^)

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#112381

On 6/16/2017 5:36 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> I'm interested in teaching a beginning C class to a group of about ten
> students ranging in age from teenager through sixty years old.
> 
> It will be two hours, and I was wondering if any of you would like to
> contribute some ideas for an outline for a class like that?
> 
> My initial thinking is:
> 
>      Brief history of C
>      C's impact on computer languages
>      The build process (high level)
>      Basic structure of a C source file
>      Header files and the C Standard Library
>      Edit our first "Hello world" program
>      Compiling
>      Linking
>      Running
>      Debugging
>      Language basics (types, macros, flow)
>      Language features (structs, output targets)
> 
> I would give them a free / open source integrated C compiler with
> built-in editor and debugger to run on Windows.  I would take them
> through the basic philosophy of "Why C?" and "How C?"
> 
> I would appreciate any input or guidance.

Just me two cents: Perhaps set a master goal for the class that ends in 
creating some sort of game. It tends to make the students excited and 
more eager to learn.

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#112410

On 6/16/2017 9:16 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 6/16/2017 5:36 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> I'm interested in teaching a beginning C class to a group of about ten
>> students ranging in age from teenager through sixty years old.
>>
>> It will be two hours, and I was wondering if any of you would like to
>> contribute some ideas for an outline for a class like that?
>>
>> My initial thinking is:
>>
>>      Brief history of C
>>      C's impact on computer languages
>>      The build process (high level)
>>      Basic structure of a C source file
>>      Header files and the C Standard Library
>>      Edit our first "Hello world" program
>>      Compiling
>>      Linking
>>      Running
>>      Debugging
>>      Language basics (types, macros, flow)
>>      Language features (structs, output targets)
>>
>> I would give them a free / open source integrated C compiler with
>> built-in editor and debugger to run on Windows.  I would take them
>> through the basic philosophy of "Why C?" and "How C?"
>>
>> I would appreciate any input or guidance.
> 
> Just me two cents: Perhaps set a master goal for the class that ends in 
> creating some sort of game. It tends to make the students excited and 
> more eager to learn.

Oh my. I did not realize that you want to teach a one time, two hour 
class! Well, if so, Ben's advise to use a little graphics lib is most 
likely going to create a lot of interest. So, Rick, create a library for 
graphics and have the students plot some interesting things. Perhaps, 
Fractals? Not only would it get them interested, it would expose them to 
complex numbers and math. Imvvho, that's always a good thing!

:^)

Although, imvvho, two hours is just "not enough" time. You really need 
to hold multiple classes at two hours a piece.

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#112385

On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 17:36:42 -0700 (PDT)
"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> wrote:

> I would appreciate any input or guidance.

Do you really expect anybody would learn C in 2 hours?

Actually I would only introduce the computer architecture and the binary
algebra to be able to process data with any programming languages.

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#112400

On 17/06/2017 07:06, GOTHIER Nathan wrote:
> Do you really expect anybody would learn C in 2 hours?
>
> Actually I would only introduce the computer architecture and the binary
> algebra
Yes this is the surest way to put them off from learning programming!!!!

> to be able to process data with any programming languages.

One should start with writing "This is a test text" and then students 
can change the text to get them used to writing something different.

Then  teach them basic variables and how to scan from keyboard inputs 
and doing some simple Math (addition, subtraction, multiplication and 
division) and formatting the output.  Teach them the difference between 
/ and % and the result it could produce with ints.

This is all you can learn in 2 hours.

You also need to teach them "Visual" forms - buttons, text boxes etc to 
give them hope that they can create professional looking programs with 
Visual Studio or Embarcadero C++.

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#112411

On 6/17/2017 10:15 AM, Real Troll wrote:
> On 17/06/2017 07:06, GOTHIER Nathan wrote:
>> Do you really expect anybody would learn C in 2 hours?
>>
>> Actually I would only introduce the computer architecture and the binary
>> algebra
> Yes this is the surest way to put them off from learning programming!!!!
> 
>> to be able to process data with any programming languages.
> 
> One should start with writing "This is a test text" and then students 
> can change the text to get them used to writing something different.
> 
> Then  teach them basic variables and how to scan from keyboard inputs 
> and doing some simple Math (addition, subtraction, multiplication and 
> division) and formatting the output.  Teach them the difference between 
> / and % and the result it could produce with ints.
> 
> This is all you can learn in 2 hours.
> 
> You also need to teach them "Visual" forms - buttons, text boxes etc to 
> give them hope that they can create professional looking programs with 
> Visual Studio or Embarcadero C++.

Perhaps teach them how to write a little text adventure, with a map of a 
couple of locations. However, two hours is just not enough time.

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#112412

On Saturday, June 17, 2017 at 12:27:13 PM UTC-7, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 6/17/2017 10:15 AM, Real Troll wrote:
> > On 17/06/2017 07:06, GOTHIER Nathan wrote:
> >> Do you really expect anybody would learn C in 2 hours?
> >>
> >> Actually I would only introduce the computer architecture and the binary
> >> algebra
> > Yes this is the surest way to put them off from learning programming!!!!
> > 
> >> to be able to process data with any programming languages.
> > 
> > One should start with writing "This is a test text" and then students 
> > can change the text to get them used to writing something different.
> > 
> > Then  teach them basic variables and how to scan from keyboard inputs 
> > and doing some simple Math (addition, subtraction, multiplication and 
> > division) and formatting the output.  Teach them the difference between 
> > / and % and the result it could produce with ints.
> > 
> > This is all you can learn in 2 hours.
> > 
> > You also need to teach them "Visual" forms - buttons, text boxes etc to 
> > give them hope that they can create professional looking programs with 
> > Visual Studio or Embarcadero C++.
> 
> Perhaps teach them how to write a little text adventure, with a map of a 
> couple of locations. However, two hours is just not enough time.

It depends a lot on what you can assume the students already
know. Some people need to be introduced to the idea of giving
a series of instructions to follow. 

Given the idea of an algorithm IMO the next had nut is the idea
of functions. Not everybody understands about them.

Now you are ready to introduce actual coding.

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#112817

On 6/17/2017 12:49 PM, David Kleinecke wrote:
> On Saturday, June 17, 2017 at 12:27:13 PM UTC-7, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 6/17/2017 10:15 AM, Real Troll wrote:
>>> On 17/06/2017 07:06, GOTHIER Nathan wrote:
>>>> Do you really expect anybody would learn C in 2 hours?
>>>>
>>>> Actually I would only introduce the computer architecture and the binary
>>>> algebra
>>> Yes this is the surest way to put them off from learning programming!!!!
>>>
>>>> to be able to process data with any programming languages.
>>>
>>> One should start with writing "This is a test text" and then students
>>> can change the text to get them used to writing something different.
>>>
>>> Then  teach them basic variables and how to scan from keyboard inputs
>>> and doing some simple Math (addition, subtraction, multiplication and
>>> division) and formatting the output.  Teach them the difference between
>>> / and % and the result it could produce with ints.
>>>
>>> This is all you can learn in 2 hours.
>>>
>>> You also need to teach them "Visual" forms - buttons, text boxes etc to
>>> give them hope that they can create professional looking programs with
>>> Visual Studio or Embarcadero C++.
>>
>> Perhaps teach them how to write a little text adventure, with a map of a
>> couple of locations. However, two hours is just not enough time.
> 
> It depends a lot on what you can assume the students already
> know. Some people need to be introduced to the idea of giving
> a series of instructions to follow.

Agreed.

> Given the idea of an algorithm IMO the next had nut is the idea
> of functions. Not everybody understands about them.
> 
> Now you are ready to introduce actual coding.

Right. I cannot see how this can be accomplished in a one time, two hour 
talk.

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#112393

"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:

> I'm interested in teaching a beginning C class to a group of about ten
> students ranging in age from teenager through sixty years old.

The previous knowledge and skills are much more important than the age
range.  Without knowing that I'm going to take a punt that this is for
people with little experience of programming.

> It will be two hours, and I was wondering if any of you would like to
> contribute some ideas for an outline for a class like that?
>
> My initial thinking is:
>
>     Brief history of C
>     C's impact on computer languages

For a two-hour course I'd say all this is a waste of time but I suppose
you can cover it in a few minutes.

>     The build process (high level)
>     Basic structure of a C source file
>     Header files and the C Standard Library
>     Edit our first "Hello world" program
>     Compiling
>     Linking
>     Running

I suggest you automate all of these so as not to take up time explaining
them.  I'd present a simple web interface with a "do it" button.  If
there's a syntax error -- filter the output to show only the first one.
Compile with gcc's -fsanitize-undefined options and/or run with
valgrind, again filtering the output to highlight the first run-tome
error.

>     Debugging
>     Language basics (types, macros, flow)
>     Language features (structs, output targets)

I'd start with functions.  If you provide a good framework you can get
students doing fun things (and that's the key here -- fun) within a
couple of hours.

I did this using a very simple graphics framework.  The students then
learn how calling functions and writing simple loops enable complex and
interesting patterns to be drawn.  You can get started with only the
simplest overview of data because you are concentrating on action and
composition.  The only data in these first programs are function
arguments except for the counter that C forces on the programmer when
writing a for loop.

Graphics is not the only way to go, but providing a framework that lets
people do interesting things quickly seems to me to be the key to
avoiding boredom.  No more temperature conversion programs, please!
This is particularly important when using a low-level language like C.

> I would give them a free / open source integrated C compiler with
> built-in editor and debugger to run on Windows.  I would take them
> through the basic philosophy of "Why C?" and "How C?"

For what sounds like a "taster" course, the philosophy is maybe a bit
much.

Obviously you should know why you are using C, but it's unlikely you can
explain to people who know very little about programming how C fits into
the panoply of languages or justify why you are using it for the course.
Of course if I'm wrong about the experience level and these are all
students who've done, say, an introduction to programming course that
will change.

I wrote a conference paper out this once, but it was before the web was
a big thing I don't think it has been preserved in electronic form.

<snip>
-- 
Ben.

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#112394

On Sat, 17 Jun 2017 12:03:44 +0100
Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> wrote:

> For a two-hour course I'd say all this is a waste of time but I suppose
> you can cover it in a few minutes.

In less than a minute with K&R which could enable students to delve key features
of the C language after the course. It's like a catechism with a Bible at
hand. :-)

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#112395

"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:

> I'm interested in teaching a beginning C class to a group of about ten
> students ranging in age from teenager through sixty years old.
>
> It will be two hours, and I was wondering if any of you would like to
> contribute some ideas for an outline for a class like that?
>
> My initial thinking is:
>
>     Brief history of C
>     C's impact on computer languages
>     The build process (high level)
>     Basic structure of a C source file
>     Header files and the C Standard Library
>     Edit our first "Hello world" program
>     Compiling
>     Linking
>     Running
>     Debugging
>     Language basics (types, macros, flow)
>     Language features (structs, output targets)
>
> I would give them a free / open source integrated C compiler with
> built-in editor and debugger to run on Windows.  I would take them
> through the basic philosophy of "Why C?" and "How C?"
>
> I would appreciate any input or guidance.

Yes, as mentionned by Ben, two hours is very short. You can already
discount half an hour for people to sit down, unpack, boot the
computers, for you to talk about stuff and tidbits, for the latecomers
to arrive, etc.


Since it's a beginner's course, basically, in two hours, you have barely
the time to have them write a single-function program such as:

    #include <stdio.h>
    int main(void){

        char name[81];
        printf("Hi, what's your name? ");
        fflush(stdout);
        scanf("%80s",&name);
        printf("Hello, %s!\n",name);

        int a=1;
        int b=2;
        int c=1;
        int x=10;
        int y=(a*x+b)*x+c;
        printf("%dx^2+%dx+%d = %d for x=%d\n",a,b,c,y,x);

        return 0;
    }


Imagine the explaining you have to do here!

- explain preprocessor and include headers.
- explain no string and array of octets, with the nul-termination
  convention.
- explain buffered I/O on terminals (fflush).
- explain printf and scanf simple format specifiers %s and %d.
- explain other integer types beside char.

If you've been lied to and you actually have people who have already
programmed, you could tell them about functions and trying to implement
a quadratic equation solver functions, and to punish them, ask them to
provide 0, 1, or 2 real solutions.


Oh, and you want to do that with MS-Windows?  Forget it…

-- 
__Pascal J. Bourguignon
http://www.informatimago.com

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#112397

"Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> writes:

> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I'm interested in teaching a beginning C class to a group of about ten
>> students ranging in age from teenager through sixty years old.
>>
>> It will be two hours, and I was wondering if any of you would like to
>> contribute some ideas for an outline for a class like that?
>>
>> My initial thinking is:
>>
>>     Brief history of C
>>     C's impact on computer languages
>>     The build process (high level)
>>     Basic structure of a C source file
>>     Header files and the C Standard Library
>>     Edit our first "Hello world" program
>>     Compiling
>>     Linking
>>     Running
>>     Debugging
>>     Language basics (types, macros, flow)
>>     Language features (structs, output targets)
>>
>> I would give them a free / open source integrated C compiler with
>> built-in editor and debugger to run on Windows.  I would take them
>> through the basic philosophy of "Why C?" and "How C?"
>>
>> I would appreciate any input or guidance.
>
> Yes, as mentionned by Ben, two hours is very short. You can already
> discount half an hour for people to sit down, unpack, boot the
> computers, for you to talk about stuff and tidbits, for the latecomers
> to arrive, etc.
>
>
> Since it's a beginner's course, basically, in two hours, you have barely
> the time to have them write a single-function program such as:
>
>     #include <stdio.h>
>     int main(void){
>
>         char name[81];
>         printf("Hi, what's your name? ");
>         fflush(stdout);
>         scanf("%80s",&name);
>         printf("Hello, %s!\n",name);
>
>         int a=1;
>         int b=2;
>         int c=1;
>         int x=10;
>         int y=(a*x+b)*x+c;
>         printf("%dx^2+%dx+%d = %d for x=%d\n",a,b,c,y,x);
>
>         return 0;
>     }
>
>
> Imagine the explaining you have to do here!

I think that's the wrong objective.  You just can't explain anything
worth explaining it two hours.  The objective should be to show that
anyone can write programs that do interesting things in two hours.  That
way they may be inspired.  Explaining the C preprpcessor is pointless
and dull!

But we're somewhat blind here.  It maybe that this is a two hour
introduction to a longer course in which case explaining things may well
be worth the time, but it seems that's not the case.  Or maybe it's a C
taster being given alongside other two-hours taters for Python and
Haskell.  It could be I am giving completely the wrong advice.

The important thing about functions is you can motivate them so
easily -- they are the key to what makes a program a program.

If you give the students:

  #include <drawing>

  int main()
  {
      paper_size(10, 10);
      move_to(5, 5);
      draw_by( 1,  0);
      draw_by( 0,  1);
      draw_by(-1,  0);
      draw_by( 0, -1);
  }

and have them /run it/ before explaining anything, you'll find you can
get away with very little explanation.

The have them write a program to draw four squares.  Once they have don
that they ill understand this very quickly:

  #include <drawing>

  void draw_a_square()
  {
      draw_by( 1,  0);
      draw_by( 0,  1);
      draw_by(-1,  0);
      draw_by( 0, -1);      
  }

  int main()
  {
      paper_size(10, 10);
      move_to(3, 3);
      draw_a_square();
      move_to(5, 5);
      draw_a_square();
      move_to(5, 5);
      draw_a_square();
      move_to(3, 5);
      draw_a_square();
  }

You may even have time to explain and motivate

  void draw_a_square(int size)
  {
      draw_by( size,     0);
      draw_by(    0,  size);
      draw_by(-size,     0);
      draw_by(    0, -size);      
  }

If you also allow angles (draw_towards), closed curve filling and colour
setting with the simplest possible API, you can have some pretty amazing
drawings out of the first couple of classes (mine were 55 minutes so it
took a couple to get going).

<snip>
> Oh, and you want to do that with MS-Windows?  Forget it…

Nowadays, I'd use a web interface so I could control everything about
the student environment, but originally this method had to be portable
between Unix (two versions) and Windows since students wanted to work at
home and no one had a Sun or HP workstation at home (in those days).

-- 
Ben.

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#112402

On Friday, June 16, 2017 at 7:36:50 PM UTC-5, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> I'm interested in teaching a beginning C class to a group of about ten
> students ranging in age from teenager through sixty years old.

First of all, it's necessary to decide what "C" means.  Is it the low-level
language that emerged for programming microcomputers in the 1990s, or the
high-level language which emerged for programming high-end computers?  The
refusal of many people to acknowledge the existence of both languages has
caused them to diverge quite substantially.  Modern PCs share traits of both
microcomputers and high-end computers, but unfortunately there seems to be
little interest in unifying the two divergent strains of C into a dialect
that combines the best features of both.

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#112417

On Friday, June 16, 2017 at 8:36:50 PM UTC-4, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> I'm interested in teaching a beginning C class to a group of about ten
> students ranging in age from teenager through sixty years old.
> 
> It will be two hours, and I was wondering if any of you would like to
> contribute some ideas for an outline for a class like that?
> 
> My initial thinking is:
> 
>     Brief history of C
>     C's impact on computer languages
>     The build process (high level)
>     Basic structure of a C source file
>     Header files and the C Standard Library
>     Edit our first "Hello world" program
>     Compiling
>     Linking
>     Running
>     Debugging
>     Language basics (types, macros, flow)
>     Language features (structs, output targets)
> 
> I would give them a free / open source integrated C compiler with
> built-in editor and debugger to run on Windows.  I would take them
> through the basic philosophy of "Why C?" and "How C?"
> 
> I would appreciate any input or guidance.

Here's what I've decided on for an outline:

-----[ Begin ]-----
Overview

    For those with some programming experience, but a total C newbie, or
    very limited C experience.

    Learn the most powerful general purpose computer programming language
    ever created:  C

    Invented in the early 1970s by Dennis Ritchie as a formal step above
    early language chaos, and above the rigors of assembly language, C
    quickly became popular as a way to easily translate human thought into
    powerful machine expression.   With major revisions in 1989, 1999, and
    2011, most of the same code created at every point throughout C’s
    existence can still be compiled today as is, with very little change.

    During this class students will learn:
        A brief history of C and its impact on the software world
        How to create and run a program
        The key parts of a C program
        The key types of C data
        Where to go to learn more

    Requirements:  Students will need to bring a computer* or have access
    to one in the lab.  * Note:  Please contact Cyberia in advance if you
    don’t have one and need to use theirs.

    Material:  Every student will receive an open source C compiler and
    IDE they can take home and use to create their own C programs.

    See:  https://sourceforge.net/projects/openwatcom/files/current-build/

-----
Class Materials

    The instructor's course material is available for download from:

    http://www.visual-freepro.org/classes/c_101.html

-----
Points to Cover

    Open Watcom IDE (Integrated Developer Environment)
        - An all-in-one C coding tool
    General concept of the compiler
    General concept of the linker
    C Headers and the C Standard Library
    Writing your own "Hello, world!" program
    Simple program to ask user their name, receive keyboard input, and
        display it backwards.
    Simple program to input two numbers, do some math, and display the
        results.

-----
Class Outline

    Introduction (10 min)
        Overview of programming languages in general
            Computer history and quickly evolving tools inearly days
                Hardware
                Software
        Why have programming languages?  Why not just machine assembly?
        Why so many different programming languages?
            Early programming languages, and the B programming language
            Why a change was needed (and inevitable)

    Download or install / copy the software (10 min)
        Install tools from class CD (copy entire folder, or download
        ZIP and unzip)
            Make sure everyone can launch the Open Watcom IDE
            Make sure everyone can load the HelloWorld project

    Instructor walks through this example, plus steps of writing and
    running a C program
        Edit source code
        Compile
        Link
        Run and debug

    Philosophy of "Why C and not something else?" (10 min)
        Instructor asks why are you here?
            C is such a low level language.
            It takes a lot of effort to write code, so:
                Why would anyone ever want to use it?
                What are the rewards?
        Instructor answers, because C is:
            Close to the machine's native language, and human speak
            Very powerful expression of thought on data (you can do
                anything in C)
            Very fast (fastest compiled programming language --
                except assembly)

    The Key Parts of a C Program (75 min)
        Examine our HelloWorld project
            Explain int main(int argc, char* argv[])
            Explain printf(), scanf(), and other functions

    Instructor goes through the C language
        Explains general programming forms:
            Code and data
            Variables and runtime memory
            Functions and main
            Parameters and local variables
            Flow control
        Explains edit and compile cycle
        Explains why we link, and how to do it
        Explains not just running software, but debugging it
        C's relationship to data and data types
            char, int, float, and double
            signed and unsigned
            limits on sizes, and why those limits exist
            storage model used in memory, compared with a perceived
                use in code

        Runtime data
            Addresses and pointers
            Memory allocation with malloc() and free()
            Arrays

    Header files and the C Standard Library
        Why header files?
        ANSI C and cross-platform compatibility

    Wrap up (15 min)
        Review of C's history and impact
        Review general parts of a C program
        Some info about what can be expected in the next class
            Intermediate - Intro to C -- Session 1 of 2, time:  2 hours
                Basic debugging
                Detailed tour through C language features
                    syntax variations
                    struct, enums, unions, bit structs
                    variadic parameters
                    advanced flow control
                    structured and unstructured
            Intermediate - Intro to C -- Session 2 of 2, time:  2 hours
                Advanced development
                Advanced debugging
                Overall philosophy of C as a language
                Understanding by conceptualizing how C works
                Understanding by thinking C through its features
                Understanding by going at C front-to-back, back-to-front
        Questions and Answers

    Overtime (as needed)
        Instructor will go over or extend any concepts students may
            have missed
        Instructor will answer any specific questions unrelated to
            class material

Students receive a CD with an open source C compiler and integrated
developer environment, with all examples and material used in the
class, plus additional examples they can try on their own.
-----[ End ]-----

Any notes are appreciated.

Thank you,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#112421

"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:
<snip>
> Here's what I've decided on for an outline:
>
> -----[ Begin ]-----
> Overview
>
>     For those with some programming experience, but a total C newbie, or
>     very limited C experience.
>
>     Learn the most powerful general purpose computer programming language
>     ever created:  C

Is that an interesting claim?  It's probably irrefutable since no one
but you will know what you mean by "powerful", but that also makes it a
hermetic claim of little value to anyone but you.  It sounds good, but
will anyone know what it really means?

There are lots of way to promote C, but that claim isn't one of them.

>     Invented in the early 1970s by Dennis Ritchie as a formal step above
>     early language chaos, and above the rigors of assembly language, C
>     quickly became popular as a way to easily translate human thought into
>     powerful machine expression.

Obviously you will think I'm just being mean, but the first part of that
is technically wrong and the second is mumbo-jumbo.  C was invented to
provide a simple systems programming language for small byte-addressed
machines.  It was a step up from B (and by implication BCPL), not from
language chaos.  The "rigors of assembly" were nothing to do with it.
Assembly was rejected because they wanted a portable systems programming
language.  All this is documented in DMR's own writings.

It did indeed become popular, but as a way of writing programs, not as a
way to translate human though into powerful machine expression.  (I can't
even imagine what that means.)

If you want to say something substantive you could say that it became
popular because it was the right size at the right time.  It rode both
the wave that was the growth microprocessors and the wave that was
growth if Unix (and successors).

<snip>
>     to one in the lab.  * Note:  Please contact Cyberia in advance if you
>     don’t have one and need to use theirs.

Is that anything to do with http://www.cyberiaeducation.org/ ?

<snip>
>     Simple program to ask user their name, receive keyboard input, and
>         display it backwards.
>     Simple program to input two numbers, do some math, and display the
>         results.

I abandoned input-based first exercises because C is not good in this
area (for beginners).  You end up with bad examples that you (or someone
else) then has to un-teach, or you end up writing way more code than a
simple example should have.  There may be a "sweet spot" that is useful
for beginners, but I never found it.  It would be interesting to see
what you suggest the students do here.

> -----
> Class Outline
>
>     Introduction (10 min)
>         Overview of programming languages in general
>             Computer history and quickly evolving tools inearly days
>                 Hardware
>                 Software
>         Why have programming languages?  Why not just machine assembly?
>         Why so many different programming languages?
>             Early programming languages, and the B programming language
>             Why a change was needed (and inevitable)

Now that's much closer to the actual history of C (if the questions you
pose are answered with historical accuracy).

<snip>
>     Philosophy of "Why C and not something else?" (10 min)
>         Instructor asks why are you here?
>             C is such a low level language.
>             It takes a lot of effort to write code, so:
>                 Why would anyone ever want to use it?
>                 What are the rewards?
>         Instructor answers, because C is:
>             Close to the machine's native language, and human speak
>             Very powerful expression of thought on data (you can do
>                 anything in C)

I think you know that I disagree with that.

<snip>
>     The Key Parts of a C Program (75 min)
>         Examine our HelloWorld project
>             Explain int main(int argc, char* argv[])

Can't you omit argc and argv in the first examples?

<snip>
>     Header files and the C Standard Library
>         Why header files?
>         ANSI C and cross-platform compatibility

Is ANSI really relevant anymore?  I'd call is ISO C.  Even the first
ANSI C is and ISO standard.

<snip>
> Any notes are appreciated.

I thought you might be addressing programming, but it's clearly a
language course.  Nothing wrong with that, but not my preferred emphasis
for people with little experience.

-- 
Ben.

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#112439

On Saturday, June 17, 2017 at 9:32:05 PM UTC-4, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> Is that anything to do with http://www.cyberiaeducation.org/ ?

No.

Thank you,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#112607

On Saturday, June 17, 2017 at 9:32:05 PM UTC-4, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:
> >  to one in the lab.  * Note:  Please contact Cyberia in advance if you
> >  don’t have one and need to use theirs.
> 
> Is that anything to do with http://www.cyberiaeducation.org/ ?

It is Cyberia Makerspace.  They are a local Indianapolis, IN group
that has construction facilities for makers of all kinds.  There are
hardware product makers working on prototypes, model train people,
3D printing, local coders, artists, comic book designers, etc.

It's basically a place where creative people can gather together,
express themselves, and help one another on their projects.
    http://www.clubcyberia.com

I met them through an event they had at their location:
    https://www.meetup.com/Hackster-Hardware-Meetup-Indianapolis/

They have woodworking, metalworking, machining, laser cutting, 3D
printing, miscellaneous hardware diagnostic equipment for Arduino
/ FPGA developers, a large plotter, individual rooms for temporary
rent during project development, overhead projector for presentations,
even a large stage for full productions for about 100 people.

Full membership is $60 per month with 24/7/365 access.

Thank you,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#112458

On 17/06/17 02:36, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> I'm interested in teaching a beginning C class to a group of about ten
> students ranging in age from teenager through sixty years old.
> 
> It will be two hours, and I was wondering if any of you would like to
> contribute some ideas for an outline for a class like that?
> 
> My initial thinking is:
> 
>      Brief history of C
>      C's impact on computer languages
>      The build process (high level)
>      Basic structure of a C source file
>      Header files and the C Standard Library
>      Edit our first "Hello world" program
>      Compiling
>      Linking
>      Running
>      Debugging
>      Language basics (types, macros, flow)
>      Language features (structs, output targets)
> 
> I would give them a free / open source integrated C compiler with
> built-in editor and debugger to run on Windows.  I would take them
> through the basic philosophy of "Why C?" and "How C?"
> 
> I would appreciate any input or guidance.
> 
> Thank you,
> Rick C. Hodgin
> 

My first thought is are you introducing C to programmers, or are you 
introducing non-programmers to programming?  If these folks are already 
familiar with programming, then what is they background?  And if they 
are not programmers, then C is almost certainly the wrong programming 
language to be using for newbies - and /absolutely/ the wrong choice if 
you want to teach it in 2 hours while leaving anyone with an impression 
other than "that's way too complicated for me".

My first choice would be Python (though there are alternatives that 
would do an equally good job).  With C, you'll be an hour and a half 
before they've got a "Hello world" program running with any feeling for 
what the code actually means.  With Python, you'll be at that stage in a 
few minutes.  And by the end of the class you'll have then drawing 
turtle graphics with simple variables, functions and loops.

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