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Groups > comp.lang.c > #106884 > unrolled thread

Even more problems with lcc-win

Started byjacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr>
First post2017-03-24 11:25 +0100
Last post2017-03-30 00:50 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 287 — 34 participants

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Contents

  Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-24 11:25 +0100
    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-24 11:04 +0000
      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-03-24 11:44 +0000
        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-24 12:59 +0100
          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-03-24 14:06 +0000
        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 13:01 +0100
          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-24 12:39 +0000
            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-24 13:17 +0000
              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-24 13:38 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-24 13:50 +0000
                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-24 14:06 +0000
                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-24 14:20 +0000
                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 15:49 +0100
                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 16:35 +0000
                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-24 14:51 +0000
                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2017-03-24 23:36 +0100
            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 15:43 +0100
              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-24 17:57 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-24 18:13 +0000
                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-24 18:32 +0000
                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-24 12:11 -0700
                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-24 19:56 +0000
                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-24 13:48 -0700
                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-24 21:17 +0000
                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-24 22:40 +0100
                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-24 21:56 +0000
                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-25 01:14 +0100
                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-25 01:19 +0000
                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-25 01:30 +0000
                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-25 12:46 -0700
                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-25 20:10 +0000
                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win gordonb.l3ybu@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2017-03-27 03:34 -0500
                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-27 11:41 +0100
                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win gordonb.15yss@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2017-03-27 14:48 -0500
                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-27 13:31 -0700
                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-27 22:22 +0100
                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-27 15:05 -0700
                                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-27 23:22 +0100
                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-28 00:35 +0200
                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-16 19:09 -0700
                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-04-21 21:01 +0200
                                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-21 12:33 -0700
                                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-04-21 21:44 +0200
                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-21 13:37 -0700
                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-27 13:03 -0700
                                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-21 13:15 -0700
                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-21 13:35 -0700
                                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-21 15:30 -0700
                                                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-04-21 18:44 -0500
                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-04-22 21:08 +0000
                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-23 10:26 -0700
                                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-23 19:08 +0100
                                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-23 14:26 -0700
                                                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-23 16:52 -0700
                                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-23 16:31 -0700
                                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-23 20:42 -0700
                                                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-23 22:32 -0700
                                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-04-24 13:37 +0000
                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-27 07:13 -0700
                                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-27 07:54 -0700
                                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-04-27 18:20 -0500
                                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-30 14:23 -0700
                                                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-30 18:18 -0700
                                                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-01 12:12 -0500
                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-05-01 11:14 -0700
                                                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-01 13:29 -0500
                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-27 16:00 -0700
                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-28 13:24 +0100
                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-28 15:20 +0200
                                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-28 16:50 +0100
                                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-28 09:28 -0700
                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-28 19:45 +0100
                                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-28 12:06 -0700
                                                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-28 20:14 +0100
                                                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-28 20:24 +0100
                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-28 21:33 +0200
                                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-28 13:10 -0700
                                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-28 22:15 +0200
                                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-29 13:23 +0000
                                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-28 21:29 +0200
                                                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-28 20:47 +0100
                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-28 22:46 +0200
                                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-28 23:46 +0100
                                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-29 00:53 +0200
                                                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-29 02:00 +0100
                                                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-03-29 05:05 -0700
                                                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-29 10:57 -0400
                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-29 17:06 +0200
                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-03-29 08:39 -0700
                                                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-30 18:29 +0100
                                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-28 23:44 -0700
                                                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-29 12:33 +0100
                                                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-29 08:54 -0700
                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-29 17:38 +0100
                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-29 16:42 +0000
                                                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-29 10:28 -0700
                                                                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-29 20:09 +0000
                                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-29 13:29 -0700
                                                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-30 13:18 +0000
                                                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-30 08:22 -0700
                                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-30 00:20 +0200
                                                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-29 15:38 -0700
                                                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-30 13:19 +0000
                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-28 18:29 -0500
                                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-29 01:36 +0200
                                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-29 22:36 +0200
                                                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-29 23:50 +0200
                                                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-30 10:57 +1300
                                                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 15:10 -0700
                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-30 11:15 +1300
                                                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-03-30 09:22 -0700
                                                                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-03-30 18:50 +0200
                                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-03-31 09:31 -0700
                                                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 10:26 +0200
                                                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-30 13:23 +0000
                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-30 12:01 -0500
                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-04-02 13:51 +0000
                                                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-04-02 23:04 +0200
                                                                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-04-03 17:45 +0000
                                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-04-03 22:09 +0200
                                                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-29 23:24 +0100
                                                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-29 15:52 -0700
                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-30 12:26 +1300
                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-03-30 12:00 +0200
                                                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 12:43 +0200
                                                                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-03-30 13:38 +0200
                                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-30 14:21 +0200
                                                                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-03-31 04:30 +0000
                                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-31 09:39 +0200
                                                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jadill33@gmail.com - 2017-03-30 07:12 -0700
                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-30 12:10 -0500
                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-29 13:25 +0000
                                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-29 14:55 +0100
                                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-29 16:11 +0200
                                                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-29 16:40 +0100
                                                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-29 18:14 +0200
                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-30 18:32 +0100
                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-30 20:53 +0100
                                                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-21 00:36 +0100
                                                                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 05:41 -0700
                                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-24 15:14 +0100
                                                                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-04-26 14:02 +0000
                                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-26 16:04 +0100
                                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-27 12:24 +0100
                                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-27 14:43 +0100
                                                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-29 23:21 +0200
                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-29 23:58 +0100
                                                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 11:10 +0200
                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-03-30 00:09 +0000
                                                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-30 01:51 +0100
                                                                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-03-30 01:58 +0000
                                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-30 12:24 +0100
                                                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 14:29 +0200
                                                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-30 14:36 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 16:23 +0200
                                                                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-01 11:59 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-01 14:41 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-03 11:08 +0200
                                                                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-03 12:02 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-03 14:32 +0200
                                                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-03 14:40 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-03 16:47 +0200
                                                                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-07 16:56 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-07 18:06 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-07 20:02 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-07 19:49 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-08 13:26 +0200
                                                                                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-08 13:33 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-08 16:27 +0200
                                                                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-08 22:28 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-04-09 13:54 +1200
                                                                                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-09 07:55 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-09 10:24 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-09 10:45 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-09 10:53 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-09 14:03 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-10 16:17 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-04-14 10:24 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-14 12:29 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-04-09 13:04 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 14:13 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-08 14:33 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-04-08 07:36 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-08 10:22 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-07 11:11 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-07 19:28 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-07 11:44 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-04-08 08:00 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-07 12:29 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-07 13:46 +0200
                                                                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-07 14:10 +0100
                                                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-03-30 21:59 +0000
                                                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-31 00:19 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win me <crisdunbar@gmail.com> - 2017-03-30 17:53 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-03-31 11:34 +0200
                                                                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 12:35 +0200
                                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-03-30 04:38 -0700
                                                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-30 13:14 +0100
                                                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 14:38 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-31 08:52 +1300
                                                                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-04-02 13:58 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-02 17:02 +0200
                                                                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-04-03 17:50 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-03 23:10 +0200
                                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-04-03 07:20 +1200
                                                                                        Optimized? (Was: Even more problems with lcc-win) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2017-04-02 19:39 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-04-02 15:59 -0400
                                                                                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-02 14:11 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-04-03 17:08 +1200
                                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-04-03 13:42 +0000
                                                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-30 13:06 +0100
                                                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 14:58 +0200
                                                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-30 14:50 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 16:27 +0200
                                                                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-30 16:57 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-03-30 14:31 -0700
                                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-28 15:54 -0500
                                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-28 08:07 -0700
                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win gordonb.uls6t@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2017-03-29 18:17 -0500
                                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-30 19:20 +0100
                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-30 18:49 +0000
                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-30 20:07 +0100
                                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win gordonb.b709o@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2017-04-16 03:45 -0500
                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-16 16:34 +0100
                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2017-04-16 20:27 +0200
                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-16 12:16 -0700
                                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-04-17 02:29 -0500
                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-27 19:01 -0400
                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-03-25 21:45 +0000
                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-25 23:19 +0100
                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-25 19:10 -0400
                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-26 00:54 +0100
                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-03-25 19:48 -0700
                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-03-26 05:12 -0700
                                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-26 14:00 -0700
                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win gordonb.zdxct@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2017-03-27 02:03 -0500
                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-24 22:39 -0500
                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-25 09:13 +0100
                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-25 11:24 +0000
                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-26 08:42 +1300
                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-25 19:51 +0000
                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-26 09:10 +1300
                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-25 20:24 +0000
                                  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-25 13:43 -0700
                                    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-26 10:30 +1300
                                      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2017-03-26 10:23 +0200
                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-24 15:08 -0700
                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-24 22:43 +0000
                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-24 15:55 -0700
                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-24 16:27 -0700
                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-25 01:17 +0100
                                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-25 01:18 +0100
                        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-27 15:06 +0000
                          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-27 16:37 +0100
                            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-27 16:25 +0000
                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-27 17:57 +0000
                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-27 19:12 +0100
                              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-27 14:19 -0500
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 19:25 +0100
            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-24 08:10 -0700
      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-24 13:01 +0000
        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 15:50 +0100
    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 13:07 +0100
      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-24 15:48 +0100
        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 16:26 +0100
          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 16:32 +0000
            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-24 12:53 -0400
              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-24 18:24 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-24 17:29 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-03-24 10:55 -0700
          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-24 10:47 -0700
    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-24 09:37 -0700
    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-25 15:07 -0500
    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-03-29 09:56 -0700
      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-29 10:39 -0700
      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-29 12:22 -0700
        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-03-29 15:10 -0700
          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-29 16:58 -0700
      Re: Even more problems with Seed7 jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-30 01:02 +0200
        Re: Even more problems with Seed7 Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-30 01:05 -0500
          Re: Even more problems with Seed7 Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-30 01:19 -0500
            Re: Even more problems with Seed7 mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-04-02 04:19 -0700
      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-03-30 00:34 -0700
        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 13:05 +0200
        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-31 00:00 +0200
          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-04-02 00:28 -0700
      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-03-30 00:50 -0700

Page 7 of 15 — ← Prev page 1 … 5 6 [7] 8 9 … 15  Next page →


#107432

Frombartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2017-03-29 23:24 +0100
Message-ID<ruWCA.378630$jb5.72964@fx25.am4>
In reply to#107418
On 29/03/2017 21:36, David Brown wrote:
> On 29/03/17 01:36, jacobnavia wrote:

>
> There are more than a few people that use C++ for development on
> Windows.  They won't be using /your/ compiler, but it is certainly not
> "plainly wrong" or unnecessary in the standard version of windows.h

Um, I think it is. Why does the header have to do double duty for C 
/and/ C++? Why not a dozen other languages while they're about it?

If such headers are automatically generated as they should be (from an 
internal repository of entities exported from Win32 API), then producing 
dedicated, streamlined versions should be easy.

-- 
bartc

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#107434

Fromsupercat@casperkitty.com
Date2017-03-29 15:52 -0700
Message-ID<67541f3d-ceab-4385-8767-108e4317067c@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#107432
On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 5:24:30 PM UTC-5, Bart wrote:
> Um, I think it is. Why does the header have to do double duty for C 
> /and/ C++? Why not a dozen other languages while they're about it?

A lot of header files are designed to be usable as C or C++, and despite the
lack of coordination between the C and C++ committees there can sometimes be
advantages to having source files be usable via either language (the same
logic may be accessible either via C++ interface or C interface, and having
the program logic in the same translation unit as the interface may allow
more efficient code generation than would be possible otherwise.

Still, it might be a good idea in those cases to having a CPP file which
uses #include a .C file to include its logic within the same translation
unit.  The C code would need to be written in such a way as to be C++
compatible, but someone who only needs the C interface wouldn't need to
carry around most of the C++ baggage.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#107439

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2017-03-30 12:26 +1300
Message-ID<ek2u50Ft3siU4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#107434
On 03/30/17 11:52 AM, supercat@casperkitty.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 5:24:30 PM UTC-5, Bart wrote:
>> Um, I think it is. Why does the header have to do double duty for C
>> /and/ C++? Why not a dozen other languages while they're about it?
>
> A lot of header files are designed to be usable as C or C++, and despite the
> lack of coordination between the C and C++ committees

What lack of coordination?

-- 
Ian

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#107464

FromGOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com>
Date2017-03-30 12:00 +0200
Message-ID<20170330120038.c2fedcdb950a1c78b9939d83@gmail.com>
In reply to#107434
On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 15:52:08 -0700 (PDT)
supercat@casperkitty.com wrote:

> A lot of header files are designed to be usable as C or C++, and despite the
> lack of coordination between the C and C++ committees there can sometimes be
> advantages to having source files be usable via either language (the same
> logic may be accessible either via C++ interface or C interface, and having
> the program logic in the same translation unit as the interface may allow
> more efficient code generation than would be possible otherwise.

There is no advantage to use a C interface in a C++ environnement if not to
build a broken logic in the programmer's mind assuming that C++ is an uppper
layer of C.

From my POV there should be a clear distinction between C and C++ code by
providing specific headers similarly to what C++ provide to access to the C
standard library.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#107466

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2017-03-30 12:43 +0200
Message-ID<obinac$74c$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#107464
On 30/03/17 12:00, GOTHIER Nathan wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 15:52:08 -0700 (PDT)
> supercat@casperkitty.com wrote:
> 
>> A lot of header files are designed to be usable as C or C++, and despite the
>> lack of coordination between the C and C++ committees there can sometimes be
>> advantages to having source files be usable via either language (the same
>> logic may be accessible either via C++ interface or C interface, and having
>> the program logic in the same translation unit as the interface may allow
>> more efficient code generation than would be possible otherwise.
> 
> There is no advantage to use a C interface in a C++ environnement if not to
> build a broken logic in the programmer's mind assuming that C++ is an uppper
> layer of C.
> 

There is a /huge/ advantage to using a C interface in a C++ program -
there are vast numbers of libraries and functions written in C, with C
header interfaces, that can be used in C++ code without having to write
wrappers or put everything into more C++ style interfaces with classes,
namespaces, etc.

If you write a library in C++ with a C++ header, your code will be
usable from C++.  If you write it in C with a C header, your code will
be usable from C and (with varying degrees of porting) a wide range of
other programming languages.

To make your C header file into a C++ header file, all you usually need
is a standard wrapper:

#ifdef __cplusplus
extern "C" {
#endif

...

#ifdef __cplusplus
}
#endif



> From my POV there should be a clear distinction between C and C++ code by
> providing specific headers similarly to what C++ provide to access to the C
> standard library.
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#107470

FromGOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com>
Date2017-03-30 13:38 +0200
Message-ID<20170330133820.b30852a32a5f5564e5428eba@gmail.com>
In reply to#107466
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 12:43:10 +0200
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

> There is a /huge/ advantage to using a C interface in a C++ program -
> there are vast numbers of libraries and functions written in C, with C
> header interfaces, that can be used in C++ code without having to write
> wrappers or put everything into more C++ style interfaces with classes,
> namespaces, etc.

If C++ programmers are unable to write C++ headers to access C libraries, then
they should rather learn C and give up C++.


> If you write a library in C++ with a C++ header, your code will be
> usable from C++.  If you write it in C with a C header, your code will
> be usable from C and (with varying degrees of porting) a wide range of
> other programming languages.

If your C++ library come in a portable object then C programmers can write a
header to use it. Likewise C++ programmers can write C++ headers to use any
library provided as a portable object.


> To make your C header file into a C++ header file, all you usually need
> is a standard wrapper:
> 
> #ifdef __cplusplus
> extern "C" {
> #endif
> 
> ...
> 
> #ifdef __cplusplus
> }
> #endif

As a C programmer I don't think this my duty to add an hack to support the C++
language. As a C++ programmer I may write a C++ header to get access to any
C library.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#107474

Fromjacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr>
Date2017-03-30 14:21 +0200
Message-ID<obit1s$olm$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#107470
Le 30/03/2017 à 13:38, GOTHIER Nathan a écrit :
> If C++ programmers are unable to write C++ headers to access C libraries, then
> they should rather learn C and give up C++.

YES!

Just learn C and do not fill your mind with nonsense! Note that memory 
space in your brain is VERY expensive, we all have a limited capacity to 
stuff our minds with colputer trivia.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#107532

Fromantispam@math.uni.wroc.pl
Date2017-03-31 04:30 +0000
Message-ID<obkm1s$56t$3@z-news.wcss.wroc.pl>
In reply to#107466
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> On 30/03/17 12:00, GOTHIER Nathan wrote:
> > On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 15:52:08 -0700 (PDT)
> > supercat@casperkitty.com wrote:
> > 
> >> A lot of header files are designed to be usable as C or C++, and despite the
> >> lack of coordination between the C and C++ committees there can sometimes be
> >> advantages to having source files be usable via either language (the same
> >> logic may be accessible either via C++ interface or C interface, and having
> >> the program logic in the same translation unit as the interface may allow
> >> more efficient code generation than would be possible otherwise.
> > 
> > There is no advantage to use a C interface in a C++ environnement if not to
> > build a broken logic in the programmer's mind assuming that C++ is an uppper
> > layer of C.
> > 
> 
> There is a /huge/ advantage to using a C interface in a C++ program -
> there are vast numbers of libraries and functions written in C, with C
> header interfaces, that can be used in C++ code without having to write
> wrappers or put everything into more C++ style interfaces with classes,
> namespaces, etc.
> 
> If you write a library in C++ with a C++ header, your code will be
> usable from C++.  If you write it in C with a C header, your code will
> be usable from C and (with varying degrees of porting) a wide range of
> other programming languages.

You somewhat forget about important use case: programmers writes
C++ library but provides C headers so that library is usable
from other languages than C++.  In such case C headers should be
C++ compatible...

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#107534

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2017-03-31 09:39 +0200
Message-ID<obl0tv$2fi$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#107532
On 31/03/17 06:30, antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl wrote:
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>> On 30/03/17 12:00, GOTHIER Nathan wrote:
>>> On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 15:52:08 -0700 (PDT)
>>> supercat@casperkitty.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> A lot of header files are designed to be usable as C or C++, and despite the
>>>> lack of coordination between the C and C++ committees there can sometimes be
>>>> advantages to having source files be usable via either language (the same
>>>> logic may be accessible either via C++ interface or C interface, and having
>>>> the program logic in the same translation unit as the interface may allow
>>>> more efficient code generation than would be possible otherwise.
>>>
>>> There is no advantage to use a C interface in a C++ environnement if not to
>>> build a broken logic in the programmer's mind assuming that C++ is an uppper
>>> layer of C.
>>>
>>
>> There is a /huge/ advantage to using a C interface in a C++ program -
>> there are vast numbers of libraries and functions written in C, with C
>> header interfaces, that can be used in C++ code without having to write
>> wrappers or put everything into more C++ style interfaces with classes,
>> namespaces, etc.
>>
>> If you write a library in C++ with a C++ header, your code will be
>> usable from C++.  If you write it in C with a C header, your code will
>> be usable from C and (with varying degrees of porting) a wide range of
>> other programming languages.
> 
> You somewhat forget about important use case: programmers writes
> C++ library but provides C headers so that library is usable
> from other languages than C++.  In such case C headers should be
> C++ compatible...
> 

Yes, that happens too.  I don't think it is as common as the C library
accessed from C++, but it is certainly another use of "C/C++" headers.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#107490

Fromjadill33@gmail.com
Date2017-03-30 07:12 -0700
Message-ID<75e97b71-6d93-4ac1-ae3d-c0e1be1c8b76@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#107432
On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 6:24:30 PM UTC-4, Bart wrote:
> On 29/03/2017 21:36, David Brown wrote:
> > On 29/03/17 01:36, jacobnavia wrote:
> 
> >
> > There are more than a few people that use C++ for development on
> > Windows.  They won't be using /your/ compiler, but it is certainly not
> > "plainly wrong" or unnecessary in the standard version of windows.h
> 
> Um, I think it is. Why does the header have to do double duty for C 
> /and/ C++? Why not a dozen other languages while they're about it?
> 
> If such headers are automatically generated as they should be (from an 
> internal repository of entities exported from Win32 API), then producing 
> dedicated, streamlined versions should be easy.

The ugliness of the Windows header is simply a result of feature creep over
a long period of time.  The ugliness is contributed by the need to retain
past compatibility of Windows programs written with their API.  Surely, you
have considered the possibility that Microsoft may have designed their own
API for the purposes of supporting the development and builds of their own
applications like Word, Excel, etc?

Windows is a business whose goal is to make money.  Proposing large scale
changes to their header API to meet your satisfaction has a cost, in design,
development, documentation, test, and support.  Last I checked, all of those
things cost *a lot* of money if you want to pay good people to do that work.

There is a lot of code in my job that I could "improve" that would accumulate
a huge amount of cost, some in documentation but mostly in test, even
something as simple as misspellings in the function APIs.  Sometimes you
just have to deal with the cruft that's in front of you.

Best regards,
John D.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#107499

FromRobert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com>
Date2017-03-30 12:10 -0500
Message-ID<5neqdchl9707kutvmia5divcohoaa9dgo2@4ax.com>
In reply to#107490
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 07:12:02 -0700 (PDT), jadill33@gmail.com wrote:

>On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 6:24:30 PM UTC-4, Bart wrote:
>> On 29/03/2017 21:36, David Brown wrote:
>> > On 29/03/17 01:36, jacobnavia wrote:
>> 
>> >
>> > There are more than a few people that use C++ for development on
>> > Windows.  They won't be using /your/ compiler, but it is certainly not
>> > "plainly wrong" or unnecessary in the standard version of windows.h
>> 
>> Um, I think it is. Why does the header have to do double duty for C 
>> /and/ C++? Why not a dozen other languages while they're about it?
>> 
>> If such headers are automatically generated as they should be (from an 
>> internal repository of entities exported from Win32 API), then producing 
>> dedicated, streamlined versions should be easy.
>
>The ugliness of the Windows header is simply a result of feature creep over
>a long period of time.  The ugliness is contributed by the need to retain
>past compatibility of Windows programs written with their API.  Surely, you
>have considered the possibility that Microsoft may have designed their own
>API for the purposes of supporting the development and builds of their own
>applications like Word, Excel, etc?
>
>Windows is a business whose goal is to make money.  Proposing large scale
>changes to their header API to meet your satisfaction has a cost, in design,
>development, documentation, test, and support.  Last I checked, all of those
>things cost *a lot* of money if you want to pay good people to do that work.
>
>There is a lot of code in my job that I could "improve" that would accumulate
>a huge amount of cost, some in documentation but mostly in test, even
>something as simple as misspellings in the function APIs.  Sometimes you
>just have to deal with the cruft that's in front of you.


Which then also leads to the ugliness of "...Ex" versions of functions
when you can no longer extend a function in a compatible way.  And
then "...ExEx" functions*.  Thankfully there don't actually appear to
be any "...ExExEx" functions.


*Really? "...Ex2" wouldn't have been a better choice?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#107383

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2017-03-29 13:25 +0000
Message-ID<4BOCA.259404$IM7.111342@fx39.iad>
In reply to#107318
BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>On 28/03/2017 20:29, David Brown wrote:
>> On 28/03/17 20:45, BartC wrote:
>
>>> Thanks. According to David Brown, /nothing/ is ever difficult, nothing
>>> is too complicated, and no tool is too slow!
>
>> And I certainly think a good proportion of the things you find
>> extraordinarily difficult, complex or obtuse are not difficult at all.
>> You have an extraordinary ability to wander into the fields, find little
>> molehills, built them up into mountains of your imagination,
>
>Much of it is fact. Yesterday or the day before I posted some stats 
>about the size of windows.h on various compilers. You can choose to 
>compile on a 20Kloc version, or a 500Kloc one.

As David said, "Mountains out of molehills".

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#107387

Frombartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2017-03-29 14:55 +0100
Message-ID<y1PCA.609053$qK5.549963@fx45.am4>
In reply to#107383
On 29/03/2017 14:25, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>> On 28/03/2017 20:29, David Brown wrote:
>>> On 28/03/17 20:45, BartC wrote:
>>
>>>> Thanks. According to David Brown, /nothing/ is ever difficult, nothing
>>>> is too complicated, and no tool is too slow!
>>
>>> And I certainly think a good proportion of the things you find
>>> extraordinarily difficult, complex or obtuse are not difficult at all.
>>> You have an extraordinary ability to wander into the fields, find little
>>> molehills, built them up into mountains of your imagination,
>>
>> Much of it is fact. Yesterday or the day before I posted some stats
>> about the size of windows.h on various compilers. You can choose to
>> compile on a 20Kloc version, or a 500Kloc one.
>
> As David said, "Mountains out of molehills".

It seems more to be these big compilers doing exactly that: taking what 
could be a concise set of declarations and bloating them to unwieldy 
dimensions.

A project has a hundred files each using windows.h. Each windows.h has 
340Kloc to be scanned, it's split over 150 files, and involves dealing 
with 650 #includes.

That's 34Mkloc, 15,000 header files and 65,000 #includes when the whole 
project is compiled. And that's before it's even started on the 
application itself, /its/ repeated headers, and the dozen other third 
party libraries it might need.

(So Cairo for example is now part of GTK; GTK needs Glib, Pango, ATK, 
gdk-pixbuf ...)

Anyway if people genuinely don't understand the advantages of having 
small, compact, succinct headers, then I don't know what more I can do.

(I haven't mentioned here the problems you will encounter if you have to 
ever delve inside these headers. To be able to use any of the above from 
my own language, I will have to first understand then duplicate the 
functionality declared in those headers. So the smaller the better.)

I sometimes wonder exactly how big a header has to be before even people 
like you say, Come on, this is a joke. I assume there is a threshold. 
Well, whatever it is, mine happens to be a lot lower, and is in line 
with reasonable expectations of what is needed to fill a requirement.

-- 
bartc


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#107388

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2017-03-29 16:11 +0200
Message-ID<obgf4r$ijn$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#107387
On 29/03/17 15:55, bartc wrote:
> On 29/03/2017 14:25, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>> On 28/03/2017 20:29, David Brown wrote:
>>>> On 28/03/17 20:45, BartC wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Thanks. According to David Brown, /nothing/ is ever difficult, nothing
>>>>> is too complicated, and no tool is too slow!
>>>
>>>> And I certainly think a good proportion of the things you find
>>>> extraordinarily difficult, complex or obtuse are not difficult at all.
>>>> You have an extraordinary ability to wander into the fields, find
>>>> little
>>>> molehills, built them up into mountains of your imagination,
>>>
>>> Much of it is fact. Yesterday or the day before I posted some stats
>>> about the size of windows.h on various compilers. You can choose to
>>> compile on a 20Kloc version, or a 500Kloc one.
>>
>> As David said, "Mountains out of molehills".
> 
> It seems more to be these big compilers doing exactly that: taking what
> could be a concise set of declarations and bloating them to unwieldy
> dimensions.

Who says these are unwieldy or bloated?  Except for you, of course?  Has
it never occurred to you that there may be good reasons behind the way
these headers are written?

> 
> A project has a hundred files each using windows.h. Each windows.h has
> 340Kloc to be scanned, it's split over 150 files, and involves dealing
> with 650 #includes.
> 
> That's 34Mkloc, 15,000 header files and 65,000 #includes when the whole
> project is compiled. And that's before it's even started on the
> application itself, /its/ repeated headers, and the dozen other third
> party libraries it might need.
> 
> (So Cairo for example is now part of GTK; GTK needs Glib, Pango, ATK,
> gdk-pixbuf ...)
> 
> Anyway if people genuinely don't understand the advantages of having
> small, compact, succinct headers, then I don't know what more I can do.

You could try complaining about it repeatedly in lots of posts in lots
of threads, preferably ones where it is irrelevant.  No, wait - you've
tried that.

> 
> (I haven't mentioned here the problems you will encounter if you have to
> ever delve inside these headers. To be able to use any of the above from
> my own language, I will have to first understand then duplicate the
> functionality declared in those headers. So the smaller the better.)
> 
> I sometimes wonder exactly how big a header has to be before even people
> like you say, Come on, this is a joke. I assume there is a threshold.
> Well, whatever it is, mine happens to be a lot lower, and is in line
> with reasonable expectations of what is needed to fill a requirement.
> 

And by "reasonable expectations", you mean "what Bart thinks despite not
knowing why other compilers' headers are the way they are, or what they
do" ?  Certainly it seems your concept of "reasonable expectations" is
highly subjective and wholly unrelated to what anyone else thinks about
headers.

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#107397

Frombartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2017-03-29 16:40 +0100
Message-ID<CzQCA.307087$dI6.32223@fx31.am4>
In reply to#107388
On 29/03/2017 15:11, David Brown wrote:
> On 29/03/17 15:55, bartc wrote:

>>
>> It seems more to be these big compilers doing exactly that: taking what
>> could be a concise set of declarations and bloating them to unwieldy
>> dimensions.
>
> Who says these are unwieldy or bloated?  Except for you, of course?  Has
> it never occurred to you that there may be good reasons behind the way
> these headers are written?

And is it ever occured to /you/ that maybe, just maybe, they really 
/are/ bloated?

> And by "reasonable expectations", you mean "what Bart thinks despite not
> knowing why other compilers' headers are the way they are, or what they
> do" ?  Certainly it seems your concept of "reasonable expectations" is
> highly subjective and wholly unrelated to what anyone else thinks about
> headers.

It's based on my experience of writing programs, mainly graphics apps, 
on small systems (eg 64KB, 256KB or 640KB main memory, 8 or 16-bit 
processors, with floppy disk storage, no graphics software support, no 
floating point hardware) and seeing what could be achieved with such 
limited means.

That 700MHz ARM for RPi, with 500,000KB memory and 16 32-bit registers 
is the equivalent of a Cray supercomputer compared with what I've been 
used to, and yet a C compiler struggles to achieve 500 lines per second 
- unopotimised. Well below expectations.

Mine will work at 40-50,000 lines per second - much more within 
/expectations/. But if that has to be squandered compiling 500,000-line 
headers in 100 different files /per module/, then what's the point?

-- 
bartc

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#107402

Fromjacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr>
Date2017-03-29 18:14 +0200
Message-ID<obgmbs$bpo$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#107397
Le 29/03/2017 à 17:40, bartc a écrit :
> But if that has to be squandered compiling 500,000-line headers in 100
> different files /per module/, then what's the point?

Exactly. That is why you should write your own smaller set of headers, 
as I did for windows. You may remember that it was lcc-win that was the 
compiler with the smaller set of header files isn't it?

If you would start working instead of rambling here you would be 
finished by now.

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#107502

FromGareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com>
Date2017-03-30 18:32 +0100
Message-ID<87r31ellgf.fsf@gmail.com>
In reply to#107402
jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> writes:

> If you would start working instead of rambling here you would be
> finished by now.

:) That's a belting good line, Jacob

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#107516

Frombartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2017-03-30 20:53 +0100
Message-ID<qmdDA.211757$Fa7.145605@fx09.am4>
In reply to#107402
On 29/03/2017 17:14, jacobnavia wrote:
> Le 29/03/2017 à 17:40, bartc a écrit :
>> But if that has to be squandered compiling 500,000-line headers in 100
>> different files /per module/, then what's the point?
>
> Exactly. That is why you should write your own smaller set of headers,
> as I did for windows. You may remember that it was lcc-win that was the
> compiler with the smaller set of header files isn't it?

Yes, that set of headers is what I used for testing, to compile big code 
such as sqlite.

(But I'm looking, for windows.h, into using a version from any compiler 
(eg MSVC), and using that info to write (properly, not just a token 
stream) a new streamlined and compact, one-file generic windows.h.

Extensive tweaks will be needed however as such files as always full of 
implementation-specific details.)

>
> If you would start working instead of rambling here you would be
> finished by now.
>

Huh? There's no rush, this is a part-time thing of no consequence.

But I decided to start the project on Christmas day '16 and it would be 
fitting to upload a working version on Easter Sunday '17. I'll anyway 
stop working on it at the end of April 17 when hopefully most of the 
boxes for the original aims have been ticked. Otherwise, this could be 
on-going for a long time...

-- 
bartc

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#108315

Frombartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2017-04-21 00:36 +0100
Message-ID<xBbKA.519319$8b6.509714@fx19.am4>
In reply to#107516
On 30/03/2017 20:53, bartc wrote:
> On 29/03/2017 17:14, jacobnavia wrote:

[Fun C Compiler Project]

>> If you would start working instead of rambling here you would be
>> finished by now.
>>
>
> Huh? There's no rush, this is a part-time thing of no consequence.
>
> But I decided to start the project on Christmas day '16 and it would be
> fitting to upload a working version on Easter Sunday '17.

I managed a version a few days early, that could compile 'hello world'. 
But it's taken a further week to get it to compile itself. The project 
is here:

   https://github.com/bartg/langs/tree/master/bccproj

But I can't promise it will manage to compile anything other than the 
test programs I've used.

> I'll anyway
> stop working on it at the end of April 17 when hopefully most of the
> boxes for the original aims have been ticked.

They're mostly ticked now, so I'll get back to my own languages for a 
bit I think.

-- 
bartc

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#108401

FromThiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-24 05:41 -0700
Message-ID<6b2f4ffb-1575-4941-995f-54e10716a208@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#108315
On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 8:36:05 PM UTC-3, Bart wrote:
> On 30/03/2017 20:53, bartc wrote:
> > On 29/03/2017 17:14, jacobnavia wrote:
> 
> [Fun C Compiler Project]
> 
> >> If you would start working instead of rambling here you would be
> >> finished by now.
> >>
> >
> > Huh? There's no rush, this is a part-time thing of no consequence.
> >
> > But I decided to start the project on Christmas day '16 and it would be
> > fitting to upload a working version on Easter Sunday '17.
> 
> I managed a version a few days early, that could compile 'hello world'. 
> But it's taken a further week to get it to compile itself. The project 
> is here:
> 
>    https://github.com/bartg/langs/tree/master/bccproj
> 


Bart, congratulations for your achievements.
I would like to understand how to generate assembly and executable files. 
What's is the output of your compiler? 

(I didn't work to much in my C parser, but I did some changes in the preprocessor)

What is the link for the aims of your other static language? 

For thouse interested in languages I also recommend other works.
https://github.com/gingerBill/Odin

and Rust language.

I have used C and C++, but the language I would like to have is something in between compatible with C.

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