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  memset "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2014-04-14 20:32 -0400
    Re: memset "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2014-04-14 20:40 -0400
      Re: memset glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-15 02:11 +0000
        Re: memset "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2014-04-14 22:22 -0400
        Re: memset Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-04-15 21:07 +0100
    Re: memset Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@dqel.com> - 2014-04-14 21:48 -0700
      Re: memset "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2014-04-15 09:28 -0400
        Re: memset David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-15 16:07 +0200
          Re: memset "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2014-04-15 21:03 -0400
            Re: memset "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2014-04-15 21:06 -0400
            Re: memset glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-16 01:25 +0000
              Re: memset "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2014-04-15 21:36 -0400
    Re: memset Michael Angelo Ravera <maravera@prodigy.net> - 2014-04-18 13:50 -0700
      Re: memset Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-18 21:04 +0000
      Re: memset "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2014-04-20 09:16 -0400
        Re: memset Richard <rgrdev_@gmail.com> - 2014-04-20 14:35 +0100
          Re: memset Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-20 14:10 +0000
            Re: memset gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-04-21 05:17 +0000
          Re: memset gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-04-20 15:11 +0000
            Re: memset "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2014-04-22 14:20 -0400
              Re: memset "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-04-22 14:22 -0500
                Re: memset "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2014-04-22 17:33 -0400
                Re: memset Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2014-04-25 12:12 +0000
            Re: memset Michael Angelo Ravera <maravera@prodigy.net> - 2014-04-22 15:23 -0700
              Re: memset James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-23 11:39 -0400
                Re: memset "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2014-04-24 21:19 -0400

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#43339

"Bill Cunningham" wrote:

>    Try working with not well documented functions. Or ones that are new to 
> you in some cases. A non standard C function getaddrinfo() gave me fits 
> when I first started working with it. And a lot of it was not fully 
> understanding not so much C syntax as what to do with the function.

Of course the documentation is very often bad, I think we all agree on that.

But you have two problems that precedes that problem.  You refuse to follow 
a structured, reasonable approach to learning the fundamentals. You refuse 
to buy a book appropriate to your mind set and background.  Your are like 
someone trying to learn Finnish and your method is to do so by writing the 
great Finnish novel.  It Doesn't Work That Way!

It is as though you had a combination lock you were trying to open.  You 
keep trying to guess the combination.  Meanwhile, there is this great book 
on lock picking setting on the table.  Open the damn book and start reading. 
The author's name is King.

http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Modern-Approach-2nd-Edition/dp/0393979504

You can even get an old edition for 97 cents plus postage "and stuff", less 
than $5 total.
Search "k n king" amazon.

PS. Yes, I know lock picking is kind of incompatible with a combination 
lock. 

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#43365

Osmium wrote:

> You can even get an old edition for 97 cents plus postage "and
> stuff", less than $5 total.
> Search "k n king" amazon.

    Wow that's a good price. I have someone taking care of my money I get 
for social security disability and they allow me $50 a week. So things are 
kind of rough.

> PS. Yes, I know lock picking is kind of incompatible with a
> combination lock. 

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#43551

On Tue, 2014-04-22, Osmium wrote:
> "Bill Cunningham" wrote:
>
>>    Try working with not well documented functions. Or ones that are new to 
>> you in some cases. A non standard C function getaddrinfo() gave me fits 
>> when I first started working with it. And a lot of it was not fully 
>> understanding not so much C syntax as what to do with the function.
>
> Of course the documentation is very often bad, I think we all agree on that.

In the case of getaddrinfo(), I think the documentation is good, but
the functionality is complex and it concerns the parts of the BSD
socket interface where the terminology is vague.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

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#43381

On Sunday, April 20, 2014 8:11:59 AM UTC-7, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article <87ppkcrune.fsf@gmail.com>, Richard  <rgrdev_@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ...
> 
> >>     Thanks Michael but I will have to admit; a lot of this is a little over 
> 
> >> my head right now. There's just something about these pointers. But I guess 
> 
> >> that's a common problem with persons who use C. I am a hobbyist. I have been 
> 
> >> trying to learn C on and off for a long time. I take a break for a while and 
> 
> >> I am finding learn as you go seems to slowly work. I appreciate any help 
> 
> >> though. It doesn't go unnoticed.
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Bill
> 
> >>
> 
> >
> 
> >No. It doesn't ... lol.
> 
> 
> 
> What I love is the implication in Bill's posts (the one above and others
> 
> over the years) that there is some big do-ha to learning C.  For crying out
> 
> loud, it's a programming language; it's not like it's a spoken foreign
> 
> language (which really does take years of study and effort to learn).  In
> 
> the real world, people are expected to pick up programming languages and
> 
> start using them in a matter of days.
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, welcome "Michael Angelo Ravera" to the small group of twisted nuts who
> post in both CLC and RGB.  There's a lot of similarity between the two
> groups - both arenas (C and Bridge) offer a lot of opportunities for
> cliquishness and snarkiness.  As far as I know, there are 3 in the club at
> present (me, Martin Ambuhl, and now you).

I've been posting to both for quite a while and notice that you do also. I try to avoid snarkiness in both groups (and the others in which I post). If someone is legitimately asking a question, there is no need to to belittle them for asking it. I have explained previous to Bill a list of about 7 fundamental concepts that he needs to understand in order to program in C (and many other languages to, but C is the least forgiving of those who don't understand these concepts). You might get by in some languages without understanding these concepts, but not in C.

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#43431

On 04/22/2014 06:23 PM, Michael Angelo Ravera wrote:
...
> ... If someone is legitimately asking a question, there is
> no need to to belittle them for asking it. ...

There is considerable reason for doubting the legitimacy of Bill
Cunningham's questions. He's been posting messages to comp.lang.c since
at least 2002-06-04 (according to Google Group's admittedly flaky
database), and has been "learning" C the whole time. Those questions
often reflect apparent confusion so deep as to be incoherent; the same
is true of his responses to other people's advice. He's been given
plenty of answers to his questions that were as good as they could be,
given the incoherence of his questions. He's been given lots of good
advice. Yet he's still asking new questions that are essentially the
same as questions he first asked a decade ago.

He has claimed that drugs he has been prescribed inhibit his ability to
learn; apparently those drugs have, among other things, inhibited his
ability to learn how futile it is to attempt to learn C while taking
such drugs. Whether he's legitimately incapable of learning, or some
weird kind of troll, trying to help him is unlikely to cause anything
other than frustration.

You are, of course, free to make your own decision about whether to
bother trying to help him - but I'd recommend making it an informed
decision, by reviewing some of his posting history:
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topicsearchin/comp.lang.c/authorname$3A%22Bill$20Cunningham%22|sort:date|spell:true>

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#43533

"James Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> wrote in message 
news:5357DE94.6000806@verizon.net...

[snip]

He's been posting messages to comp.lang.c since
> at least 2002-06-04 (according to Google Group's admittedly flaky
> database), and has been "learning" C the whole time.

    Really? I didn't know that. And I figure if anyone I would know. I have 
been /studying/ and /considering/ C on and off for the length of time you 
mentioned (maybe). One reason for not learning is I admit frustrations and 
leaving C for sometimes 6 months to almost a year. And as I say I have been 
asking about C for consideration. Serious consideration. My main interest is 
in *nixs and you can;t do that without C.

Bill

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