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Groups > comp.lang.c > #151935 > unrolled thread

pure C90 environment

Started byPaul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com>
First post2020-05-01 22:19 -0700
Last post2020-05-18 13:25 +1200
Articles 8 on this page of 188 — 19 participants

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Contents

  pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-01 22:19 -0700
    Re: pure C90 environment fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 01:24 -0700
      Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 01:56 -0700
        Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 02:06 -0700
          Re: pure C90 environment shi84516584@gmail.com - 2020-05-19 17:53 -0700
        Re: pure C90 environment fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 02:07 -0700
          Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 02:23 -0700
            Re: pure C90 environment shi84516584@gmail.com - 2020-05-19 17:55 -0700
    Re: pure C90 environment Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-02 11:05 +0200
      Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 02:14 -0700
        Re: pure C90 environment antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-05-03 22:33 +0000
          Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-03 16:18 -0700
            Re: pure C90 environment antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-05-04 00:35 +0000
              Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-03 17:54 -0700
                Re: pure C90 environment Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-05-03 18:38 -0700
                  Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-03 18:51 -0700
                Re: pure C90 environment David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-04 09:36 +0200
                  Re: pure C90 environment James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2020-05-04 08:48 +0100
                  Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-04 01:12 -0700
                    Re: pure C90 environment David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-04 15:16 +0200
                      Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-04 06:21 -0700
                        Re: pure C90 environment David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-04 15:40 +0200
                          Re: pure C90 environment Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-05-04 07:12 -0700
                    Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-04 14:47 +0100
                      Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-04 07:08 -0700
                        Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-04 08:12 -0700
                      Re: pure C90 environment BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2020-05-05 11:36 -0500
                  Re: pure C90 environment James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-05-19 11:25 -0400
                    Re: pure C90 environment James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-05-19 11:39 -0400
                      Re: pure C90 environment Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-05-19 08:45 -0700
                    Re: pure C90 environment David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-19 17:43 +0200
                      Re: pure C90 environment James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-05-19 12:35 -0400
                        Re: pure C90 environment David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-19 20:14 +0200
                          Re: pure C90 environment James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-05-19 14:42 -0400
                            Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-19 12:11 -0700
                              Re: pure C90 environment David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-19 21:46 +0200
                                Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-19 13:11 -0700
                              Re: pure C90 environment Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-05-19 14:39 -0700
                          Re: pure C90 environment Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-05-19 13:24 -0700
                            Re: pure C90 environment David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-20 09:26 +0200
                        Re: pure C90 environment antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-05-19 21:11 +0000
                          Re: pure C90 environment James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-05-19 18:51 -0400
                            Re: pure C90 environment antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-05-19 23:26 +0000
                            Re: pure C90 environment David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-20 09:33 +0200
                Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-04 11:49 +0100
                  Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-04 04:00 -0700
                  Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-04 17:58 +0100
                    Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-04 10:18 -0700
                    Re: pure C90 environment Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-05-04 13:57 -0700
      Re: pure C90 environment Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 12:11 +0200
        Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-02 11:26 +0100
          Re: pure C90 environment Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 13:06 +0200
            Re: pure C90 environment Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 04:26 -0700
              Re: pure C90 environment fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 04:53 -0700
                Re: pure C90 environment Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 16:21 +0200
                  Re: pure C90 environment fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 11:20 -0700
              Re: pure C90 environment Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 16:20 +0200
                Re: pure C90 environment Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 07:33 -0700
                  Re: pure C90 environment Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 16:35 +0200
                Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-02 17:30 +0100
                  Re: pure C90 environment Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 18:37 +0200
                    Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-02 18:18 +0100
                      Re: pure C90 environment Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 19:25 +0200
                      Re: pure C90 environment Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 19:25 +0200
                  Re: pure C90 environment Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-05-02 22:45 +0100
                    Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-02 23:29 +0100
                      Re: pure C90 environment Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-05-03 03:55 +0100
                        Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-03 13:07 +0100
                          Re: pure C90 environment fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2020-05-03 05:24 -0700
                          Re: pure C90 environment Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-05-03 05:26 -0700
                            Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-03 14:27 +0100
                              Re: pure C90 environment Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-05-03 22:38 +0100
                          Re: pure C90 environment Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-05-03 22:06 +0100
                            Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-04 00:28 +0100
                      Re: pure C90 environment Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-05-03 02:16 -0700
                        Re: pure C90 environment Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-05-03 16:23 -0700
                          Re: pure C90 environment Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-05-04 16:41 +0200
                            Re: pure C90 environment Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-05-04 16:59 +0200
                              Re: pure C90 environment Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-05-04 11:01 -0700
    Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-02 11:13 +0100
      Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 03:53 -0700
        Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 05:14 -0700
        Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 06:30 -0700
    Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-02 12:49 -0700
    Re: pure C90 environment Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-05-13 03:01 -0700
      Re: pure C90 environment scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-05-13 14:43 +0000
        Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-17 06:30 -0700
      Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-17 05:41 -0700
        Re: pure C90 environment Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-05-17 13:02 -0700
          Re: pure C90 environment David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-17 22:47 +0200
            Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-17 14:03 -0700
              Re: pure C90 environment David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-18 08:54 +0200
                Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-18 06:11 -0700
                  Re: pure C90 environment Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-05-18 06:51 -0700
                    Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-18 07:12 -0700
                      Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-18 15:47 +0100
                    Re: pure C90 environment Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-05-18 16:25 +0200
                      Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-18 07:41 -0700
                        Re: pure C90 environment Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-05-18 17:32 +0200
                  Re: pure C90 environment David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-18 17:09 +0200
                    Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-18 08:52 -0700
                      Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-18 17:05 +0100
                        Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-18 09:18 -0700
                      Re: pure C90 environment scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-05-18 19:55 +0000
                      Re: pure C90 environment Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-05-19 01:42 +0100
                        Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-18 20:35 -0700
                          Re: pure C90 environment scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-05-19 16:12 +0000
                            Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-19 10:02 -0700
                              Re: pure C90 environment scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-05-19 17:42 +0000
                          Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-19 18:16 +0100
                      Re: pure C90 environment David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-19 13:00 +0200
                        Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-19 05:09 -0700
                          Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-19 15:20 +0100
                            Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-19 08:18 -0700
                              Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-19 17:58 +0100
                                Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-19 10:45 -0700
                                  Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-19 19:31 +0100
                                    Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-19 11:58 -0700
                                      Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-19 20:44 +0100
                                        Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-19 13:03 -0700
                                      Re: pure C90 environment antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-05-19 22:34 +0000
                                        Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-19 15:41 -0700
                                          Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-20 00:03 +0100
                                            Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-19 16:10 -0700
                                              Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-20 01:46 +0100
                                                Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-19 22:49 -0700
                                                  Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-20 11:26 +0100
                                                    Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-20 04:43 -0700
                                            Re: pure C90 environment Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-05-19 16:40 -0700
                                          Re: pure C90 environment antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-05-19 23:11 +0000
                                  Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-19 11:40 -0700
                                    Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-20 05:48 -0700
                                      Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-20 06:19 -0700
                                      Re: pure C90 environment Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-05-20 16:38 +0100
                                        Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-20 09:15 -0700
                                          Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-20 09:37 -0700
                                            Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-20 10:43 -0700
                                              Re: pure C90 environment Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-05-20 10:58 -0700
                                                Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-20 11:36 -0700
                                                  Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-20 12:37 -0700
                                                    Re: pure C90 environment "muta...@gmail.com" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 17:43 -0800
                                                      Re: pure C90 environment "muta...@gmail.com" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 17:58 -0800
                                                      Re: pure C90 environment "muta...@gmail.com" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 18:03 -0800
                                                        Re: pure C90 environment "muta...@gmail.com" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 18:29 -0800
                                                          Re: pure C90 environment "muta...@gmail.com" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 19:54 -0800
                                                            Re: pure C90 environment "muta...@gmail.com" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 20:01 -0800
                                                              Re: pure C90 environment "muta...@gmail.com" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 20:04 -0800
                                                                Re: pure C90 environment "muta...@gmail.com" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 21:07 -0800
                                                                Re: pure C90 environment Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 23:10 -0800
                                                                  Re: pure C90 environment "muta...@gmail.com" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2021-03-11 01:21 -0800
                                                                  Re: pure C90 environment scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-03-11 15:26 +0000
                          Re: pure C90 environment David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-19 17:18 +0200
                            Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-19 09:52 -0700
                              Re: pure C90 environment scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-05-19 17:39 +0000
                          Re: pure C90 environment scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-05-19 16:17 +0000
                          Re: pure C90 environment Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-05-19 22:54 +0100
                            Re: pure C90 environment Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-05-20 10:17 +1200
                        Re: pure C90 environment Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-05-19 16:28 +0200
                          Re: pure C90 environment David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-19 17:30 +0200
                            Re: pure C90 environment Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-05-19 19:39 +0200
                  Re: pure C90 environment antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-05-18 15:12 +0000
                  Re: pure C90 environment scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-05-18 19:51 +0000
                    Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-18 13:02 -0700
                Re: pure C90 environment Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-05-18 15:52 +0200
                  Re: pure C90 environment David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-18 17:15 +0200
                  Re: pure C90 environment antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-05-18 20:10 +0000
                    Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-18 13:18 -0700
                      Re: pure C90 environment antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-05-18 23:21 +0000
                        Re: pure C90 environment David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-19 13:21 +0200
                    Re: pure C90 environment David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-19 13:12 +0200
                      Re: pure C90 environment scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-05-19 16:21 +0000
                Re: pure C90 environment scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-05-18 19:48 +0000
            Re: pure C90 environment scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-05-18 19:47 +0000
              Re: pure C90 environment David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-19 13:23 +0200
          Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-17 13:54 -0700
            Re: pure C90 environment Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-05-17 16:45 -0700
              Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-17 17:27 -0700
                Re: pure C90 environment antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-05-18 14:44 +0000
                  Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-18 08:17 -0700
                    Re: pure C90 environment antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-05-18 21:39 +0000
                      Re: pure C90 environment scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-05-18 21:58 +0000
                        Re: pure C90 environment Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-05-18 16:40 -0700
                          Re: pure C90 environment scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-05-19 00:22 +0000
                        Re: pure C90 environment antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-05-19 00:27 +0000
                          Re: pure C90 environment scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-05-19 16:10 +0000
                      Re: pure C90 environment Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2020-05-18 14:59 -0700
            Re: pure C90 environment scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-05-18 20:01 +0000
          Re: pure C90 environment Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-05-18 13:25 +1200

Page 10 of 10 — ← Prev page 1 … 8 9 [10]


#152356

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2020-05-18 21:58 +0000
Message-ID<lyDwG.171357$Oi4.61428@fx43.iad>
In reply to#152355
antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl writes:
>Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 19 May 2020 00:44:41 UTC+10, anti...@math.uni.wroc.pl  wrote:

>> I looked up p-system and it seems to be Pascal
>> and interpreted, but I don't want either of
>> those things.
>
>I mean p-system as inspiration.  Main point in p-system
>is simple virtual machine.  Original p-system indeed was
>designed for Pascal, but essentialy the same virtual
>machine can be used for C (you may siplify it a bit
>because standard C does not have nested functions).
>You can get very simple implementaion by compiling
>to p-code and interpreting.  But it does not mean
>that you have to interpret.  Stanford Pascal in MVS
>distribution has backend which translates p-code to
>to naitive s370.  Stanford Pascal is realized as
>two programs that comunicationg via disk file, this is
>just one of possible choices.  One can put frontend and
>backend in a single program so that when frontend
>decides to emit a p-code backend will almost immediately
>translate it to native code.
>
>IIUC 'pcc' (portable C compiler) which made C popular
>worked on similar principle.

Having both used UCSD pascal (on 5 1/4" floppy-based Terek system)
and having spent much time working on a port of PCC to
the motorola 88100, I can assure you that PCC has nothing
to do with P-code or any form of intermediate machine
language.   It was "portable" because it separated code
generation from lexical and grammar processing in such a way
as it could more easily be ported to new processor architectures
when compare with V6 C.

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#152359

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2020-05-18 16:40 -0700
Message-ID<87imgsstga.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#152356
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
[...]
> Having both used UCSD pascal (on 5 1/4" floppy-based Terek system)
[...]

The Terak 8510a used 8" floppies, not those new-fangled tiny 5-1/4"
ones.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Philips Healthcare
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#152360

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2020-05-19 00:22 +0000
Message-ID<oFFwG.19753$bm4.4445@fx12.iad>
In reply to#152359
Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> writes:
>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>[...]
>> Having both used UCSD pascal (on 5 1/4" floppy-based Terek system)
>[...]
>
>The Terak 8510a used 8" floppies, not those new-fangled tiny 5-1/4"
>ones.

Ah, yes.  I sit corrected.

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#152361

Fromantispam@math.uni.wroc.pl
Date2020-05-19 00:27 +0000
Message-ID<r9v95l$49g$1@z-news.wcss.wroc.pl>
In reply to#152356
Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl writes:
> >Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, 19 May 2020 00:44:41 UTC+10, anti...@math.uni.wroc.pl  wrote:
> 
> >> I looked up p-system and it seems to be Pascal
> >> and interpreted, but I don't want either of
> >> those things.
> >
> >I mean p-system as inspiration.  Main point in p-system
> >is simple virtual machine.  Original p-system indeed was
> >designed for Pascal, but essentialy the same virtual
> >machine can be used for C (you may siplify it a bit
> >because standard C does not have nested functions).
> >You can get very simple implementaion by compiling
> >to p-code and interpreting.  But it does not mean
> >that you have to interpret.  Stanford Pascal in MVS
> >distribution has backend which translates p-code to
> >to naitive s370.  Stanford Pascal is realized as
> >two programs that comunicationg via disk file, this is
> >just one of possible choices.  One can put frontend and
> >backend in a single program so that when frontend
> >decides to emit a p-code backend will almost immediately
> >translate it to native code.
> >
> >IIUC 'pcc' (portable C compiler) which made C popular
> >worked on similar principle.
> 
> Having both used UCSD pascal (on 5 1/4" floppy-based Terek system)
> and having spent much time working on a port of PCC to
> the motorola 88100, I can assure you that PCC has nothing
> to do with P-code or any form of intermediate machine
> language.   It was "portable" because it separated code
> generation from lexical and grammar processing in such a way
> as it could more easily be ported to new processor architectures
> when compare with V6 C.

I remeber description saying that PCC used intermediate language
between front end and code generator.  Maybe my memory is
inaccurate, maybe description was wrong.  Maybe we differently
understand 'similar' (part of my job is finding similarites
between things that other folks consider quite different...).

More to the point: my understanding was that UCSD interpreded
p-code.  However, in other systems p-code was used to separate
frontend (parsing and type checking) from backend, and that
separation I considerd as similarity with PCC.  Now, you may
consider PCC as quite different and I am pretty sure that
once we get to tiny (or maybe not so tiny) details we will
find differences.  But again, to get clean separtaion
between frontend and backend you need clearly separated
interface.  Many folks, incuding myself, consider such
interface as specification of virtual machine.  Now, if
we want to create compiler, we need to specify interface,
that is virtual machine.  I pointed out that starting
from p-code one may get usable interface specification
for C compiler.

You wrote "PCC has nothing to do with P-code or any form
of intermediate machine language".  So, probably you (and
PCC developers) do not consider interface between front
end and code generation as "intermediate machine language".
But cosider person starting from P-code, but who wants to
avoid interpretation or storing of P-code.  Are you sure
that compiler created by such person will be much different
than hypotetical re-implementation of PCC by independent
team using ideas of creators of PCC?  Point here is that
independent implementation will be different but those
differences not necesserily means different ideas.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch

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#152379

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2020-05-19 16:10 +0000
Message-ID<XxTwG.71925$iB5.57812@fx06.iad>
In reply to#152361
antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl writes:
>Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>> antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl writes:
>> >Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> On Tuesday, 19 May 2020 00:44:41 UTC+10, anti...@math.uni.wroc.pl  wrote:

>
>I remeber description saying that PCC used intermediate language
>between front end and code generator.  Maybe my memory is
>inaccurate, maybe description was wrong.  Maybe we differently
>understand 'similar' (part of my job is finding similarites
>between things that other folks consider quite different...).

The PCC parser produces an expression tree which is passed to
the optimizer and the back end.   The back end generates
assembler code by walking the tree.   I suppose you could call
the tree 'intermediate code' when it was written to a temp file
before being passed to the back-end.

Here's the entire optimizer:

NODE *
optim(p) register NODE *p; {
        /* local optimizations, most of which are probably machine independent */

        register o, ty;
        NODE *sp;
        int i;
        TWORD t;

        if( (t=BTYPE(p->type))==ENUMTY || t==MOETY ) econvert(p);
        if( oflag ) return(p);
        ty = optype( o=p->op);
        if( ty == LTYPE ) return(p);

        if( ty == BITYPE ) p->right = optim(p->right);
        p->left = optim(p->left);

        /* collect constants */

        switch(o){

        case SCONV:
        case PCONV:
                return( clocal(p) );

        case FORTCALL:
                p->right = fortarg( p->right );
                break;

        case UNARY AND:
                if( LO(p) != NAME ) cerror( "& error" );

                if( !andable(p->left) ) return(p);

                LO(p) = ICON;

                setuleft:
                /* paint over the type of the left hand side with the type of the top */
                p->left->type = p->type;
                p->left->cdim = p->cdim;
                p->left->csiz = p->csiz;
                p->op = FREE;
                return( p->left );

        case UNARY MUL:
                if( LO(p) != ICON ) break;
                LO(p) = NAME;
                goto setuleft;

        case MINUS:
                if( !nncon(p->right) ) break;
                RV(p) = -RV(p);
                o = p->op = PLUS;

        case MUL:
        case PLUS:
        case AND:
        case OR:
        case ER:
               /* commutative ops; for now, just collect constants */
                /* someday, do it right */
                if( nncon(p->left) || ( LCON(p) && !RCON(p) ) ) SWAP( p->left, p->right );
                /* make ops tower to the left, not the right */
                if( RO(p) == o ){
                        NODE *t1, *t2, *t3;
                        t1 = p->left;
                        sp = p->right;
                        t2 = sp->left;
                        t3 = sp->right;
                        /* now, put together again */
                        p->left = sp;
                        sp->left = t1;
                        sp->right = t2;
                        p->right = t3;
                        }
                if(o == PLUS && LO(p) == MINUS && RCON(p) && RCON(p->left) &&
                  conval(p->right, MINUS, p->left->right)){
                        zapleft:
                        RO(p->left) = FREE;
                        LO(p) = FREE;
                        p->left = p->left->left;
                }
                if( RCON(p) && LO(p)==o && RCON(p->left) && conval( p->right, o, p->left->right ) ){
                        goto zapleft;
                        }
                else if( LCON(p) && RCON(p) && conval( p->left, o, p->right ) ){
                        zapright:
                        RO(p) = FREE;
                        p->left = makety( p->left, p->type, p->cdim, p->csiz );
                        p->op = FREE;
                        return( clocal( p->left ) );
                        }

                /* change muls to shifts */

                if( o==MUL && nncon(p->right) && (i=ispow2(RV(p)))>=0){
                        if( i == 0 ){ /* multiplication by 1 */
                                goto zapright;
                                }
                        o = p->op = LS;
                        p->right->type = p->right->csiz = INT;
                        RV(p) = i;
                        }

                /* change +'s of negative consts back to - */
                if( o==PLUS && nncon(p->right) && RV(p)<0 ){
                        RV(p) = -RV(p);
                        o = p->op = MINUS;
                        }
                break;

        case DIV:
                if( nncon( p->right ) && p->right->lval == 1 ) goto zapright;
                break;

        case EQ:
        case NE:
        case LT:
        case LE:
        case GT:
        case GE:
        case ULT:
        case ULE:
        case UGT:
        case UGE:
                if( !LCON(p) ) break;

                /* exchange operands */

                sp = p->left;
                p->left = p->right;
                p->right = sp;
                p->op = revrel[p->op - EQ ];
                break;

                }

        return(p);
        }

>

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#152357

FromPaul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com>
Date2020-05-18 14:59 -0700
Message-ID<d896f4ca-6a27-49fe-86bc-e048d6e2aa6f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#152355
On Tuesday, 19 May 2020 07:39:17 UTC+10, anti...@math.uni.wroc.pl  wrote:

> > Applications written for S/380 will also
> > run on z/OS and MVS 3.8J. All it does is
> > provide lots of memory (4 GiB with AMODE
> > 32 in fact) to those using emulation anyway.
> 
> Well, if your app uses full 32-bit addresses it will
> not work on real mainframe.

Yes it will. Although MVS/380 can be
configured to provide the full 4 GiB
of memory, it does so via standard calls,
which just means that when run on a real
mainframe you only get 2 GiB of memory
available to the same, unchanged
application.

> And mainfraine software
> which switches between 31-bit and 24-bit mode will
> not work in 32-bit mode.

It depends how it is written. When using
GCCMVS with PDPCLIB, the application will
indeed switch between 32-bit and 24-bit,
or 31-bit and 24-bit (depending on how
the machine is configured - the machine
can be configured to make any request
for AM31 to get AM32 instead).

BFN. Paul.

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#152350

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2020-05-18 20:01 +0000
Message-ID<VQBwG.48031$g24.32821@fx30.iad>
In reply to#152322
Paul Edwards <mutazilah@gmail.com> writes:
>On Monday, 18 May 2020 06:02:12 UTC+10, Malcolm McLean  wrote:
>
>> The virtual machine itself is just an ordinary application, running
>> under the host OS.
>
>PDOS/386 requires an emulator like Bochs
>or qemu to run under. Are you saying that
>a virtual machine doesn't need an emulator?
>When the application under PDOS/386 does
>an INT 21H to request a service, something
>needs to handle that instruction and pass
>it on to PDOS/386 to interpret.

Most virtual machines leverage hardware acceleration features
like AMD's SVM, Intel's VT-X or Arm64s virtualization mode.  These
significantly accelerate performance (primarily due to the hardware
handling the guest page table translations, as well as the ability
to intercept privileged operations) without needing to dynamicallt
rewrite the guest operating system (as the original VMware and Xen did
before paravirtualization of block devices and network devices).

KVM is a popular kernel virtual machine on linux, which leverages some
of QEMU to handle emulation of certain low-bandwidth hardware devices
(e.g. serial ports) and leverages the hardware capabilities to support
paging, and leverages PCIExpress Single-Root I/O Virtualization (SRIOV)
to provide the guest OS direct access to the hardware (without the
hypervisor needing to emulate or intercept memory mapped register accesses
and inbound/outbound DMA).

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#152327

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2020-05-18 13:25 +1200
Message-ID<hie6foFamcgU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#152319
On 18/05/2020 13:23, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 18/05/2020 08:02, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>> On Sunday, 17 May 2020 13:41:30 UTC+1, Paul Edwards  wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, 13 May 2020 20:02:09 UTC+10, Malcolm McLean  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm reviving this. I think yur niche might be virtual machines.
>>>> A virtual machine needs to be able to run with constrained resources
>>>> and an OS that keeps out of the way. We know it is possible to do
>>>> serious work with only a few MB of RAM and and few tens of MB hard drive
>>>> space, because for many years PCs had that specification.
>>>>
>>>> That's nothing for a modern PC. A virutal machine could be a faitly
>>>> lightweight application in the host environment.
>>>
>>> Can you elaborate on this please? Which OS
>>> needs to keep out of the way? Would that be
>>> PDOS/386? Which currently allows applications
>>> to directly manipulate I/O ports.
>>>
>> Virtual machines are usually hosted on a fully-featured, modern OS like
>> Windows or Apple;s OSX, running on a desktop machine with several
>> gigabytes of memory and several hundred gigabytes of backing store.
>> The virtual machine itself is just an ordinary application, running
>> under the host OS.
> 
> One class of VM meets that description but not all.
> 
>> However there's a real need for virtual machines to be light on resources.
> 
> The need is already met.  Solaris derived platforms have has lightweight
> zones since the early 2000s.  Linux now has containers.
> 
>> Their memory and disk space is memory and disk space that cannot be used
>> by the host machine. So the OS on the virtual machine needs to keep out of
>> the way. It can't be hogging huge tracts of memory or hard disk space.
> 
> Zones and containers share resources with the host OS.
> 
>> However, whilst Linux is
>> acceptable for virtual machines, a typical Linux installation is
>> still rather greedy.
> 
> BusyBox
> 

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