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Groups > comp.lang.c > #92512 > unrolled thread

Default values in #define

Started by"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
First post2016-08-19 14:22 -0700
Last post2016-08-22 05:11 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 355 — 30 participants

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Contents

  Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-19 14:22 -0700
    Re: Default values in #define Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-20 09:36 +1200
      Re: Default values in #define Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-08-19 22:48 +0100
        Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-19 14:56 -0700
        Re: Default values in #define Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2016-08-22 07:56 -0700
          Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-22 17:09 +0200
            Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-22 08:21 -0700
              Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-22 08:47 -0700
                Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-22 08:55 -0700
              Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-22 09:27 -0700
                Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-22 09:41 -0700
                Re: Default values in #define Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-08-22 20:19 +0100
                  Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-22 12:54 -0700
                    Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-23 09:14 +0200
                      Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-23 05:23 -0700
                        Re: Default values in #define mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2016-08-23 05:42 -0700
                          Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-23 05:52 -0700
                            Re: Default values in #define mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2016-08-23 06:01 -0700
                              Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-23 06:06 -0700
                            Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-23 06:01 -0700
                              Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-23 15:56 +0200
                                Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-23 06:59 -0700
                                Re: Default values in #define Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-08-23 10:42 -0700
                            Re: Default values in #define matt@godbolt.org - 2016-08-23 06:47 -0700
                              Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-23 15:57 +0200
                        Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-23 15:31 +0200
                          Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-23 06:43 -0700
                            Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-23 16:06 +0200
                              Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-23 07:15 -0700
                              Re: Default values in #define albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-12-04 13:26 +0100
                                Re: Default values in #define Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-05 22:07 -0600
                                  Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-06 06:22 -0800
                                    Re: Default values in #define Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-07 00:50 -0600
                                      Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-07 06:33 -0800
                                        Re: Default values in #define Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-07 23:06 -0600
                                          Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-08 01:44 -0800
                                            Re: Default values in #define Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-08 06:58 -0600
                                            Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-10 08:16 -0800
                                              Re: Default values in #define Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-11 02:47 -0600
                                          Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-12-09 15:49 -0800
                                            Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-12-09 15:52 -0800
                                      Re: Default values in #define asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2016-12-09 00:52 -0800
                                        Re: Default values in #define Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-10 03:19 -0600
                                Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-07 04:43 -0800
                                  Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-08 14:18 +0100
                                    Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-08 07:22 -0800
                                    Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 08:00 -0800
                                      Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-08 22:14 +0100
                                        Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 13:44 -0800
                                  Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-12-09 16:07 -0800
                                    Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-09 17:00 -0800
                                      Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-12-09 17:46 -0800
                                        Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-10 08:37 -0800
                                          Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-10 09:42 -0800
                                            Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-10 10:05 -0800
                                          Re: Default values in #define Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-11 02:51 -0600
                                            Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-11 04:40 -0800
                                              Re: Default values in #define Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-11 23:06 -0600
                                                Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 03:15 -0800
                                                  Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-12 16:12 +0100
                                                    Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 07:33 -0800
                                                      Re: Default values in #define Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-13 01:45 -0600
                                                    Re: Default values in #define Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-12 16:49 +0000
                                                      Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 10:25 -0800
                                                        Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-13 10:50 +0100
                                                          Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 04:02 -0800
                                                            Re: Default values in #define BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-13 13:14 +0000
                                                              Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 05:57 -0800
                                                            Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-13 14:32 +0100
                                                              Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 05:58 -0800
                                                              Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 06:21 -0800
                                                                Re: Default values in #define BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-13 14:41 +0000
                                                                  Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 06:47 -0800
                                                                    Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-13 16:24 +0100
                                                                      Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 07:30 -0800
                                                                      Re: Default values in #define Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-14 14:12 -0600
                                                                        Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-14 12:21 -0800
                                                                          Re: Default values in #define Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-14 15:02 -0600
                                                                            Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-14 13:19 -0800
                                                              Petty and unprofessional (Was: Default values in #define) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2016-12-13 16:46 +0000
                                                              Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 09:04 -0800
                                                                Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-13 20:06 +0100
                                                                  Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 11:19 -0800
                                                                  Re: Default values in #define Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-13 11:33 -0800
                                                                    Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 11:44 -0800
                                                                    Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-14 10:04 +0100
                                                              Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-12-13 14:37 -0800
                                                              Re: Default values in #define Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-14 14:28 -0600
                                                            Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-12-13 14:23 -0800
                                                              Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 16:10 -0800
                                                                Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-12-13 18:54 -0800
                                                                  Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-12-13 18:57 -0800
                                                                  Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-14 02:53 -0800
                                                                    Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-14 05:59 -0800
                                                                      Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-12-14 12:03 -0800
                                                                      Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-12-14 12:22 -0800
                                                                        Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-12-14 17:09 -0800
                                                                          Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-12-14 18:37 -0800
                                                      Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-13 05:25 -0800
                                                  Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-12 07:31 -0800
                                                    Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 07:35 -0800
                                                    Re: Default values in #define Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-12 09:17 -0800
                                                      Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-12 11:03 -0800
                                                        Re: Default values in #define Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-12 11:41 -0800
                                                          Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-12 12:31 -0800
                                                            Re: Default values in #define Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-12 13:13 -0800
                                                        Re: Default values in #define BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-12 20:22 +0000
                                            Re: Default values in #define Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-11 14:49 +0000
                                              Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-11 07:10 -0800
                                                Re: Default values in #define luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-11 07:21 -0800
                                                  Re: Default values in #define jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-11 10:33 -0800
                                                Re: Default values in #define Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-12-11 16:22 +0100
                                              Re: Default values in #define luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-11 07:16 -0800
                                            Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-12-13 13:54 -0800
                                              Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 14:09 -0800
                                                Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-12-13 14:31 -0800
                                                  Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 16:11 -0800
                          Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-23 06:49 -0700
                          Re: Default values in #define Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-21 05:50 -0600
                            Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-21 13:10 +0100
                  Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-22 12:56 -0700
                    Re: Default values in #define Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-08-22 21:11 +0100
                    Re: Default values in #define Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-08-22 15:47 -0700
                      Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-23 11:54 -0700
                        Re: Default values in #define Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-08-23 20:07 +0100
                          Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-23 14:30 -0700
                            Re: Default values in #define Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-08-24 06:25 +0100
                            Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-24 10:34 +0200
                              Re: Default values in #define Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2016-08-24 08:50 -0400
                                Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-24 15:37 +0200
                                  Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-24 11:58 -0700
                                    Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-25 01:27 +0200
                                      Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-24 22:28 -0700
                                        Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-24 23:38 -0700
                                          Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-25 10:44 +0200
                                          Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-25 07:29 -0700
                                            Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-25 07:32 -0700
                                              Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-25 10:26 -0700
                                                Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-25 11:11 -0700
                                                  Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-25 12:03 -0700
                                              Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-29 15:31 +0200
                                                Re: Default values in #define Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-08-29 09:28 -0700
                                                  Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-29 22:51 +0200
                                                    Re: Default values in #define Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-08-29 16:35 -0700
                                                      Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-30 01:44 +0200
                                                      Re: Default values in #define Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-08-30 10:06 -0700
                                                        Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-30 10:41 -0700
                                                          Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-30 21:24 +0200
                                                            Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-30 12:32 -0700
                                                              Re: Default values in #define Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2016-08-30 22:30 +0200
                                                              Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-31 09:17 +0200
                                                          Re: Default values in #define Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-08-31 22:46 -0700
                                                        Re: Default values in #define Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-08-31 10:29 -0700
                                                          Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-31 10:12 -0700
                                                            Re: Default values in #define Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-08-31 12:30 -0700
                                                              Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-31 11:32 -0700
                                                            Re: Default values in #define Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-08-31 22:56 -0700
                                                              Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-01 08:17 -0700
                                                                Re: Default values in #define Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-04 22:18 -0700
                                                          Re: Default values in #define Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-08-31 22:34 -0700
                                                            Re: Default values in #define Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-01 00:32 -0700
                                                              Re: Default values in #define Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-02 05:19 -0700
                                                          Re: Default values in #define Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2016-09-01 11:38 +0200
                                                            Re: Default values in #define Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-01 10:03 -0700
                                                              Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-01 10:31 -0700
                                                                Re: Default values in #define Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-01 12:50 -0700
                                                              Re: Default values in #define Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2016-09-01 21:30 +0200
                                                              Re: Default values in #define Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-02 05:37 -0700
                                                                Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-02 08:16 -0700
                                                                  Re: Default values in #define Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-04 22:20 -0700
                                                                    Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-06 07:32 -0700
                                                                      Re: Default values in #define Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-11 06:54 -0700
                                                                Re: Default values in #define Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-02 08:40 -0700
                                                                  Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-02 10:16 -0700
                                                                  Re: Default values in #define Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-04 15:16 -0700
                                            Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-25 08:28 -0700
                                              Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-25 10:14 -0700
                                                Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-26 00:54 -0700
                                                Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-26 01:00 -0700
                                                  Re: Default values in #define Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-08-26 11:17 +0100
                                                    Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-26 04:08 -0700
                                                      Re: Default values in #define Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-08-26 13:45 +0100
                                                        Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-26 06:09 -0700
                                                          Re: Default values in #define Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-08-26 17:11 +0100
                                                            Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-26 09:31 -0700
                                                              Re: Default values in #define Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-26 12:48 -0400
                                                              Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-26 09:50 -0700
                                                                Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-29 16:01 +0200
                                                                  Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-08-29 10:57 -0700
                                                                Re: Default values in #define Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2016-08-31 06:09 +0000
                                                              Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-08-26 12:24 -0700
                                                                Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-08-26 17:27 -0700
                                                                  Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-08-26 17:39 -0700
                                                              Re: Default values in #define Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-08-26 21:49 +0100
                                                              Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-29 15:51 +0200
                                                            Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-29 15:46 +0200
                                                          Re: Default values in #define Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2016-08-26 17:37 -0400
                                                            Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-26 15:05 -0700
                                                              Re: Default values in #define Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-27 10:25 +1200
                                                                Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-26 16:25 -0700
                                                                Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-26 18:12 -0700
                                                                  Re: Default values in #define Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-27 13:47 +1200
                                                                    Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-26 19:32 -0700
                                                                      Re: Default values in #define Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-26 22:54 -0400
                                                                        Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-26 21:11 -0700
                                                                          Re: Default values in #define Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-27 18:25 +1200
                                                                          Re: Default values in #define Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-27 09:11 -0400
                                                                            Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-27 06:33 -0700
                                                                              Re: Default values in #define Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-27 10:16 -0400
                                                                                Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-27 13:17 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Default values in #define Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-27 16:26 -0400
                                                                            Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-27 13:10 -0700
                                                                              Re: Default values in #define Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-27 16:35 -0400
                                                                                Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-29 09:28 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Default values in #define Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-29 15:38 -0400
                                                                                    Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-29 13:27 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Default values in #define Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-29 16:42 -0400
                                                                                        Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-29 14:16 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Default values in #define Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-29 17:24 -0400
                                                                                            Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-30 13:21 +0200
                                                                                              Re: Default values in #define Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-30 08:12 -0400
                                                                                                Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-30 15:24 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: Default values in #define Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-30 10:53 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-30 10:34 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: Default values in #define Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-30 14:44 -0400
                                                                                                        Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-30 12:48 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: Default values in #define Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-30 17:19 -0400
                                                                                                            Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-31 11:24 +0200
                                                                                                              Re: Default values in #define Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-31 10:33 -0400
                                                                                                                Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-31 09:51 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: Default values in #define Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-31 22:46 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-08-30 16:26 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-03 17:31 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-12-09 16:03 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-30 21:36 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: Default values in #define Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-30 17:30 -0400
                                                                                                        Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-31 12:39 +0200
                                                                                                          Re: Default values in #define already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2016-08-31 03:57 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-31 15:34 +0200
                                                                                                              Re: Default values in #define already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2016-08-31 07:33 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: Default values in #define Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-31 10:46 -0400
                                                                                                            Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-31 10:03 -0700
                                                                                                              Re: Default values in #define Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-31 22:52 -0400
                                                                                                                Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-01 07:41 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: Default values in #define Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-09-01 14:58 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: Default values in #define already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2016-08-31 02:27 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-31 08:21 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 09:05 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 09:15 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: Default values in #define Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-02 22:22 +0200
                                                                              Re: Default values in #define Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-28 08:41 +1200
                                                                                Re: Default values in #define Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-27 20:34 -0400
                                                                                Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-29 09:41 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Default values in #define Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-30 08:07 +1200
                                                                                    Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-29 14:08 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-08-29 15:41 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-29 16:30 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-08-29 17:14 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-08-29 17:20 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-29 23:37 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Default values in #define already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2016-08-30 02:19 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-30 13:26 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: Default values in #define already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2016-08-30 04:40 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-30 13:56 +0200
                                                                                                Re: Default values in #define albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-12-04 15:43 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Default values in #define Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-30 19:34 +1200
                                                                                        Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-30 00:51 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Default values in #define Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-30 20:36 +1200
                                                                              Re: Default values in #define Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 00:39 -0500
                                                                        Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-08-26 21:40 -0700
                                                                          Re: Default values in #define Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-27 09:22 -0400
                                                                            Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-08-29 11:36 -0700
                                                                            Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-12-09 16:26 -0800
                                                                      Re: Default values in #define Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-08-27 06:34 +0100
                                                                  Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-27 12:48 -0700
                                                                  Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-29 16:12 +0200
                                                              Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-29 16:10 +0200
                                                                Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-29 10:18 -0700
                                                                  Re: Default values in #define already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2016-08-29 10:32 -0700
                                                                    Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-29 10:49 -0700
                                                                  Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-29 23:13 +0200
                                                                    Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-29 14:48 -0700
                                                        Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-26 09:14 -0700
                                                      Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-26 08:59 -0700
                                                      Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-29 15:43 +0200
                                                        Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-29 22:58 -0700
                                                          Re: Default values in #define Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 07:14 +0100
                                                          Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-08-30 00:14 -0700
                                                            Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-30 00:26 -0700
                                                              Re: Default values in #define already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2016-08-30 02:10 -0700
                                                              Re: Default values in #define Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-08-30 10:47 +0100
                                                                Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-30 03:32 -0700
                                                                  Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-30 13:38 +0200
                                                                    Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-30 04:44 -0700
                                                                      Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-30 14:00 +0200
                                                                  Re: Default values in #define Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-08-30 18:55 +0100
                                                                    Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-30 12:24 -0700
                                                                      Re: Default values in #define me <crisdunbar@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 14:11 -0700
                                                                        Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-30 16:28 -0700
                                                                          Re: Default values in #define me <crisdunbar@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 16:54 -0700
                                                                            Re: Default values in #define Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 06:27 +0100
                                                                      Re: Default values in #define Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-08-30 23:09 +0100
                                                                        Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-30 16:06 -0700
                                                              Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-30 13:35 +0200
                                                          Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-30 13:30 +0200
                                                            Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-30 04:39 -0700
                                                  Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-29 15:40 +0200
                                            Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-29 15:17 +0200
                                              Re: Default values in #define already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2016-08-29 06:47 -0700
                                                Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-29 16:58 +0200
                                                  Re: Default values in #define already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2016-08-29 09:09 -0700
                                                    Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-29 23:16 +0200
                                                      Re: Default values in #define already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2016-08-31 02:02 -0700
                                                        Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-31 12:49 +0200
                                                          Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-31 09:02 -0700
                                        Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-25 10:31 +0200
                                          Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-25 10:01 -0700
                                            Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-29 16:24 +0200
                                              Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-29 10:43 -0700
                                                Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-29 23:29 +0200
                                                  Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-29 16:27 -0700
                                          Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-08-25 10:02 -0700
                                            Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-25 10:33 -0700
                                              Re: Default values in #define "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-08-25 14:12 -0700
                                                Re: Default values in #define supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-25 14:22 -0700
                                            Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-29 16:27 +0200
              Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-22 23:13 +0200
                Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-22 14:39 -0700
                  Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-23 09:32 +0200
                    Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-23 05:33 -0700
                    Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-23 06:13 -0700
                      Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-23 06:22 -0700
                        Re: Default values in #define David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-23 16:13 +0200
                          Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-23 07:35 -0700
                    Re: Default values in #define Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-08-23 19:08 +0100
              Re: Default values in #define Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2016-08-24 09:05 +0200
                Re: Default values in #define mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2016-08-24 00:49 -0700
                Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-24 05:40 -0700
      Re: Default values in #define BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-08-19 22:56 +0100
        Re: Default values in #define Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-20 10:14 +1200
          Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-19 18:09 -0700
            Re: Default values in #define Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-20 13:15 +1200
              Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-19 19:10 -0700
                Re: Default values in #define Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-20 14:50 +1200
              Re: Default values in #define BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-08-20 10:35 +0100
                Re: Default values in #define Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-20 03:13 -0700
                  Re: Default values in #define BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-08-20 12:24 +0100
                Re: Default values in #define Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-21 00:14 +1200
                Re: Default values in #define gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2016-08-20 14:13 +0000
                  Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-22 05:17 -0700
                Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-20 12:08 -0700
            Re: Default values in #define Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-08-20 14:06 +0100
              Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-20 12:14 -0700
    Re: Default values in #define Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2016-08-21 12:51 +0200
      Re: Default values in #define "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-08-22 05:11 -0700

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#98626

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2016-12-09 15:52 -0800
Message-ID<o2fg0r$d8h$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#98624
On 12/9/2016 3:49 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 12/7/2016 9:06 PM, Robert Wessel wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Dec 2016 06:33:59 -0800 (PST), supercat@casperkitty.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 12:50:13 AM UTC-6,
>>> robert...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 06:22:50 -0800 (PST), supercat wrote:
>>>>> Various assembler features are more necessary on some architectures
>>>>> than
>>>>> others.  For example, some architectures have many instructions
>>>>> which can
>>>>> be used with either an immediate operand or a value fetched from
>>>>> memory,
>>>>> while others have dedicated instructions for use with immediate
>>>>> operands.
>>>>> Likewise, some support direct-mode addressing, while others don't.
>>>>> Some
>>>>> support double-indirect addressing.
>>>>
>>>> But how to code those in an assembler is more up to the designers of
>>>> the assembler (or at least its syntax), than the ISA designers
>>>> (although those often closely related groups).
>>>
>>> It would be possible to design an assembly-language format which
>>> could cope
>>> with every addressing mode that has ever been used in any
>>> remotely-popular
>>> processor, and could handle many more besides.  On the other hand,
>>> such a
>>> format would end up being more verbose than one which was tailored for a
>>> particular architecture, and would also tend to suggest in many cases
>>> the
>>> availability of instructions which aren't actually available.  For
>>> example,
>>> on the PIC 16C54, which has a register called W and a file of numbered
>>> registers called "F"-registers,  one could write instructions
>>> equivalent to:
>>>
>>>    W = W ^ 0xA5
>>>    W = W ^ MyReg  ; Assume MyReg is a label for some register
>>>    MyReg = W ^ MyReg
>>>    W = W - MyReg
>>>    MyReg = W - MyReg
>>>
>>> Using a syntax like:
>>>
>>>   xor w,w,#0xA5
>>>   xor w,w,MyReg
>>>   xor MyReg,w,MyReg
>>>   sub w,w,MyReg
>>>   sub MyReg,w,MyReg
>>>
>>> but that would suggest that those instructions offered a lot more
>>> choices
>>> than they do.  In fact, Microchip would use:
>>>
>>>   xorlw 0xA5
>>>   xorwf MyReg,w
>>>   xorwf MyReg,f
>>>   subwf MyReg,w
>>>   subwf MyReg,f
>>>
>>> Operations that operate upon register files have a one-bit selection to
>>> indicate whether the result should go into W or back to the register
>>> file;
>>> a few operations like xor are available with immediate addressing,
>>> but many
>>> others (including, for the 16C54, addition) are not.
>>>
>>> Coding with an assembly language which mirrors the actual abilities
>>> of the
>>> machine is more convenient than coding for a more verbose form.  While
>>> it might be more convenient for compiler writers to produce a more
>>> general
>>> form of output and then have a matrix to describe what instructions are
>>> actually available, humans will often have an easier time writing
>>> code which
>>> which better fits the machine architecture.
>>
>>
>> I don't necessarily disagree.  And at this point I'm not sure if
>> you're arguing for Intel or AT&T syntax - both have the "excess
>> implied possibilities" problem, but in different ways.
>>
>> But my main point is that there isn't necessarily any one obvious
>> minimum or best assembler syntax for any given ISA. But I do agree
>> that a good assembler syntax will be at least somewhat specialized
>> towards the ISA in question.  OTTH, it matters less these days, since
>> so much less assembler gets written.
>
> FWIW, wrt Intel vs AT&T syntax, well just do them both. Example:
>
> (Normal GAS GCC)
> http://webpages.charter.net/appcore/appcore/src/cpu/i686/ac_i686_gcc_asm.html
>
>
>
> (MingW GAS version, it likes the underscores prefixing the function
> names... IIRC, it did not work/link without them...)
> http://webpages.charter.net/appcore/appcore/src/cpu/i686/ac_i686_mingw_asm.html
>
>
>
> (MS Macro Asm version, Intel syntax)
> http://webpages.charter.net/appcore/appcore/src/cpu/i686/ac_i686_masm_asm.html
>

Oh and by the way, if you look at the code and notice an XCHG 
instruction without a explicit LOCK prefix, well, that particular 
instruction implies it already.

;^)

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#98461

Fromasetofsymbols@gmail.com
Date2016-12-09 00:52 -0800
Message-ID<bc38a8a3-fe45-4d6a-a631-a90471cd68a4@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#98234
I think that in assembly 'Type' of one data has to be just the number of bit of that data type. So data type has to be 8bit, 16bit
32bit etc (if it is signed or unsigned is the instruction that include it)

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#98672

FromRobert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com>
Date2016-12-10 03:19 -0600
Message-ID<cmhn4c1hr95vf5jatfbla4pvpiebmd2qlv@4ax.com>
In reply to#98461
On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 00:52:03 -0800 (PST), asetofsymbols@gmail.com
wrote:

>I think that in assembly 'Type' of one data has to be just the number of bit of that data type. So data type has to be 8bit, 16bit
>32bit etc (if it is signed or unsigned is the instruction that include it)


I don't see why it would have to be limited to just the size.  While
Intel syntax does not do so, you could have different memory types for
floats and integer values, and generate an error attempting to
reference a float with a "mov" or an integer with an "fld" (at least
unless you used a "cast").

While I'm not particularly familiar with the product, I believe Randy
Hyde's HLA does such things.

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#98253

From"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-07 04:43 -0800
Message-ID<20e82ec3-1eb1-4bac-8e78-6bcf1e3d870a@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#97973
David Brown  <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote: 
>As I noted, AT&T's syntax is older than Intel's.  The question is, why 
>did Intel bother making their own syntax when AT&T's existed and was 
>familiar for many assembly programmers?

I believe that is obvious.  Intel's syntax is cleaner, less verbose,
fewer repeating characters, and generally far more pleasing to the eye.

AT&T's syntax is like looking at wet cow dung.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#98352

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2016-12-08 14:18 +0100
Message-ID<o2bmg9$oae$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#98253
On 07/12/16 13:43, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> David Brown  <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote: 
>> As I noted, AT&T's syntax is older than Intel's.  The question is, why 
>> did Intel bother making their own syntax when AT&T's existed and was 
>> familiar for many assembly programmers?
> 
> I believe that is obvious.  Intel's syntax is cleaner, less verbose,
> fewer repeating characters, and generally far more pleasing to the eye.
> 

"Clean" is in the eye of the beholder.  I have used assembly languages
that are "op src, dest" and some that are "op dest, src".  I have used
some that specify widths as part of the opcode, part of the register, or
additional arguments.  You get used to anything - well, almost anything.
 The Microchip PIC assembly is so hideous that you need to define
assembler macros in order to make anything legible.

> AT&T's syntax is like looking at wet cow dung.
> 

We are talking about x86 assembly here!  The whole architecture is
gruesome (in the eye of this beholder) - there is no way to make a nice
assembly syntax for it.

But if you are going to work with these devices in assembly you need to
be familiar with reading both syntaxes, while probably have a strong
/personal/ preference for which one you write.

It is all just about preference and taste.  Except for comments about
Microchip PIC assembly, of course - those are undeniable fact :-)

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#98368

From"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-08 07:22 -0800
Message-ID<b72f8d5d-11cf-4c2c-a731-f96da112118c@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#98352
David Brown wrote:
> We are talking about x86 assembly here! The whole architecture
> is gruesome (in the eye of this beholder) - there is no way to
> make a nice assembly syntax for it.

Intel did.

And I disagree that x86 is gruesome when discussing 80386
and later.  It's quite elegant given its limited register set.  You
can rename eax,ebx,ecx,edx,esi,edi,ebp as rN names and it's
quite similar to other architectures, with some operations requiring
certain register targets, with others being more generic.  Selectors
are used instead of segments, with a flat 4GB address space being
available.

The only un-elegant things about x86 are many kernel-only things.
But most developers will never see that.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#98379

Fromsupercat@casperkitty.com
Date2016-12-08 08:00 -0800
Message-ID<b896eb4c-9d20-4c97-965f-168f5eacda4b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#98352
On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 7:18:24 AM UTC-6, David Brown wrote:
> "Clean" is in the eye of the beholder.  I have used assembly languages
> that are "op src, dest" and some that are "op dest, src".  I have used
> some that specify widths as part of the opcode, part of the register, or
> additional arguments.  You get used to anything - well, almost anything.
>  The Microchip PIC assembly is so hideous that you need to define
> assembler macros in order to make anything legible.

I don't mind the PIC assembly format generally aside from its radix
notation, and the lack of a nice way of specifying a port+bit combination.
Also, when writing conditional skip instructions I always add an extra
space to the succeeding line, something I would think Microchip should
recommend, so e.g. code to copy one bit to another if a momentary
disturbance would be acceptable would be:

        bcf     destreg,destbit
        btfsc   srcreg,srcbit
         bsf    destreg,destbit

Provided that code is written using ,f and ,d rather than ,1 and ,0 what
else don't you like about the syntax?

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#98409

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2016-12-08 22:14 +0100
Message-ID<o2cicm$ute$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#98379
On 08/12/16 17:00, supercat@casperkitty.com wrote:
> On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 7:18:24 AM UTC-6, David Brown wrote:
>> "Clean" is in the eye of the beholder.  I have used assembly languages
>> that are "op src, dest" and some that are "op dest, src".  I have used
>> some that specify widths as part of the opcode, part of the register, or
>> additional arguments.  You get used to anything - well, almost anything.
>>  The Microchip PIC assembly is so hideous that you need to define
>> assembler macros in order to make anything legible.
>
> I don't mind the PIC assembly format generally aside from its radix
> notation, and the lack of a nice way of specifying a port+bit combination.
> Also, when writing conditional skip instructions I always add an extra
> space to the succeeding line, something I would think Microchip should
> recommend, so e.g. code to copy one bit to another if a momentary
> disturbance would be acceptable would be:
>
>         bcf     destreg,destbit
>         btfsc   srcreg,srcbit
>          bsf    destreg,destbit
>
> Provided that code is written using ,f and ,d rather than ,1 and ,0 what
> else don't you like about the syntax?
>

Well, the mnemonic "btfsc" for a start.  "Bit Test File register and 
Skip if Clear"?  Long, long ago when I had to use a PIC, I used macros 
to write the above as:

	BitClear destreg, destbit
	IfBit srcreg, srcbit
		BitSet destreg, destbit

I also had macros for making port+bit combinations.

I seem to also remember the assembler missing a good deal of the 
directives needed for defining data, and tracking the current data and 
code page could easily be a mess if you wanted something reasonably 
efficient and reasonably automatic.

But to be fair on the assembly, much of my dislike of the assembly was 
perhaps merely dislike of the cpu itself.  And once I had made the 
effort on a good set of macros, it was reasonable enough.

(Microchip gets full marks for making very solid and robust 
microcontrollers, and for making them available for decades - but the 
cpu is /not/ pleasant.)

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#98417

Fromsupercat@casperkitty.com
Date2016-12-08 13:44 -0800
Message-ID<4cca4b09-ff38-4cce-8d72-05fc78a372b2@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#98409
On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 3:14:22 PM UTC-6, David Brown wrote:
> (Microchip gets full marks for making very solid and robust 
> microcontrollers, and for making them available for decades - but the 
> cpu is /not/ pleasant.)

I actually like the low-end and mid-range designs, though I find it curious
that a problem which some General Instruments PICs fixed in the 1970s (the
lack of a register to access the state of a port latch) was not fixed in any
Microchip PICs prior to the 18xx series.  The register banking is something
of a pain, but a lot of things on that architecture work out much more nicely
than on the Intel 8051, CDP1802, or even the Z80 for that matter.

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#98630

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2016-12-09 16:07 -0800
Message-ID<o2fgti$g8r$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#98253
On 12/7/2016 4:43 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> David Brown  <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>> As I noted, AT&T's syntax is older than Intel's.  The question is, why
>> did Intel bother making their own syntax when AT&T's existed and was
>> familiar for many assembly programmers?
>
> I believe that is obvious.  Intel's syntax is cleaner, less verbose,
> fewer repeating characters, and generally far more pleasing to the eye.
>
> AT&T's syntax is like looking at wet cow dung.

Yikes! Humm, you probably should not look at this:

http://webpages.charter.net/appcore/vzoom/refcount/refcount-ia32-gcc.asm

Your eyes might start bleeding...

;^)


I like both AT&T and Intel syntax. I can use them both, and that is okay 
with me.

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#98640

From"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-09 17:00 -0800
Message-ID<719e1515-f600-4a1c-ba17-8062de544f34@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#98630
Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> Yikes! Humm, you probably should not look at this: 
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/appcore/vzoom/refcount/refcount-ia32-gcc.asm 
>
> Your eyes might start bleeding... 
>
> ;^) 

>
> I like both AT&T and Intel syntax. I can use them both, and that is okay 
> with me

If forced to use AT&T syntax, I would switch professions.  Not joking.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#98644

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2016-12-09 17:46 -0800
Message-ID<o2fmn4$v6e$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#98640
On 12/9/2016 5:00 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> Yikes! Humm, you probably should not look at this:
>>
>> http://webpages.charter.net/appcore/vzoom/refcount/refcount-ia32-gcc.asm
>>
>> Your eyes might start bleeding...
>>
>> ;^)
>
>>
>> I like both AT&T and Intel syntax. I can use them both, and that is okay
>> with me
>
> If forced to use AT&T syntax, I would switch professions.  Not joking.

Wow!

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#98712

From"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-10 08:37 -0800
Message-ID<d3c3653e-7345-47a6-92e1-efe66b973c75@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#98644
On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 8:46:36 PM UTC-5, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 12/9/2016 5:00 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> >> Yikes! Humm, you probably should not look at this:
> >>
> >> http://webpages.charter.net/appcore/vzoom/refcount/refcount-ia32-gcc.asm
> >>
> >> Your eyes might start bleeding...
> >>
> >> ;^)
> >
> >>
> >> I like both AT&T and Intel syntax. I can use them both, and that is okay
> >> with me
> >
> > If forced to use AT&T syntax, I would switch professions.  Not joking.
> 
> Wow!

I did a brief impromptu poll in my family, with my non-programmer wife
who doesn't have any interest in programming, and my 12-year old son
who is very much like his mother, and they both agreed that the Intel
syntax is preferable.

Here are some of their reasons:

    1)  Like the brackets more than parenthesis.
    2)  The % symbol everywhere is "just weird."
    3)  The Intel syntax aligns things in columns more easily with
        the variable-length number being after the left-side, which
        helps it be seen more easily, as in this page:
        http://webpages.charter.net/appcore/appcore/src/cpu/i686/ac_i686_masm_asm.html

        versus this page:
        http://webpages.charter.net/appcore/appcore/src/cpu/i686/ac_i686_gcc_asm.html

    4)  The AT&T syntax looks "generally busy."
    5)  The Intel syntax is nicely spaced, and "simplified."

Could not agree more.  And, I gave them no prompting in finding this
information out.  I sent them this email unannounced and unspoken to
regarding the poll:

    -----[ Begin ]-----
Subject:  Opinion poll -- Which is easier to read

From a straight-forward easiness of reading, which one is easier to read?

#1 -- http://webpages.charter.net/appcore/appcore/src/cpu/i686/ac_i686_masm_asm.html

Or #2 -- http://webpages.charter.net/appcore/appcore/src/cpu/i686/ac_i686_gcc_asm.html

Please choose #1 or #2.
    -----[ End ]-----

I'd be curious what your non-programmer friends/family think with that
poll.  And also what your programmer friends/family think. :-)

Seriously, I will never use AT&T syntax.  It breaks my heart that it
even exists.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#98720

Fromsupercat@casperkitty.com
Date2016-12-10 09:42 -0800
Message-ID<9544b32b-5e5b-41ad-9779-a9d69c87a7ee@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#98712
On Saturday, December 10, 2016 at 10:37:16 AM UTC-6, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> I did a brief impromptu poll in my family, with my non-programmer wife
> who doesn't have any interest in programming, and my 12-year old son
> who is very much like his mother, and they both agreed that the Intel
> syntax is preferable.
> 
> Here are some of their reasons:
> 
>     1)  Like the brackets more than parenthesis.
>     2)  The % symbol everywhere is "just weird."
>     3)  The Intel syntax aligns things in columns more easily with
>         the variable-length number being after the left-side, which
>         helps it be seen more easily, as in this page:

Borland's assembler supported three modes:

  1. The default mode worked in a fashion consistent with Intel MASM 5.1
     documentation.

  2. QUIRKS mode would make the assembler work in a fashion consistent
     with the way MASM 5.1 actually worked.

  3. IDEAL mode made it work in a way which was unique to Borland's
     assembler, but allowed faster assembly and IMHO made more sense.

I don't have any samples of IDEAL mode code available for comparison, but
it would be interesting to see what various programmers would think about
it.  Perhaps the most notable thing about it is that an instruction like:

    mov ax,someLabel

would always be processed as a move-immediate regardless of how the label
was defined; code wanting to load memory from the address given by someLabel
would use the syntax:

    mov ax,[someLabel]

again regardless of how the label was defined.

To my mind, the two styles of assembler convey different philosophies of
how tools to generate machine code should behave, and I think that same
distinction is sometimes apparent with C compilers.  Sometimes one wants
something that acts as much as possible like a high-level language, but
at other times one knows what instructions one wants the machine to
generate and simply wants a way of writing source code that will make
that happen.

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#98723

From"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-10 10:05 -0800
Message-ID<1436e57f-54e8-4ab3-80cc-36dd6c991079@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#98720
On Saturday, December 10, 2016 at 12:43:00 PM UTC-5, supe...@casperkitty.com wrote:
> On Saturday, December 10, 2016 at 10:37:16 AM UTC-6, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > I did a brief impromptu poll in my family, with my non-programmer wife
> > who doesn't have any interest in programming, and my 12-year old son
> > who is very much like his mother, and they both agreed that the Intel
> > syntax is preferable.
> > 
> > Here are some of their reasons:
> > 
> >     1)  Like the brackets more than parenthesis.
> >     2)  The % symbol everywhere is "just weird."
> >     3)  The Intel syntax aligns things in columns more easily with
> >         the variable-length number being after the left-side, which
> >         helps it be seen more easily, as in this page:
> 
> Borland's assembler supported three modes:
> 
>   1. The default mode worked in a fashion consistent with Intel MASM 5.1
>      documentation.
> 
>   2. QUIRKS mode would make the assembler work in a fashion consistent
>      with the way MASM 5.1 actually worked.
> 
>   3. IDEAL mode made it work in a way which was unique to Borland's
>      assembler, but allowed faster assembly and IMHO made more sense.
> 
> I don't have any samples of IDEAL mode code available for comparison, but
> it would be interesting to see what various programmers would think about
> it.  Perhaps the most notable thing about it is that an instruction like:
> 
>     mov ax,someLabel
> 
> would always be processed as a move-immediate regardless of how the label
> was defined; code wanting to load memory from the address given by someLabel
> would use the syntax:
> 
>     mov ax,[someLabel]
> 
> again regardless of how the label was defined.
> 
> To my mind, the two styles of assembler convey different philosophies of
> how tools to generate machine code should behave, and I think that same
> distinction is sometimes apparent with C compilers.  Sometimes one wants
> something that acts as much as possible like a high-level language, but
> at other times one knows what instructions one wants the machine to
> generate and simply wants a way of writing source code that will make
> that happen.

There were several things about MASM 6.11d I began to dislike over the
years.  At first it was amazing because it had all kinds of high-level
fixups.  But over time I began to see clunky syntax compared with a
language like C.  I began to wonder why the need for such disparate
syntaxes.  It didn't make any sense.

For the assembler I'm currently developing, I have developed a new
syntax.  You can compare them side-by-side as I wrote a conversion
tool to transform the original MASM 6.11d into my syntax.  It still
has some flaws in conversion, but I'll get them sorted out as I go
along (Lord willing):

    https://github.com/RickCHodgin/libsf/blob/master/exodus/source/debi/debi.asm
    https://github.com/RickCHodgin/libsf/blob/master/exodus/source/debi/debi.lasm

    Conversion tool (written for Visual FoxPro):
    https://github.com/RickCHodgin/libsf/blob/master/exodus/tools/xbase/convert_asm_to_lasm.prg

Examples:

-----[ Begin MASM 6.11d ]-----
TITLE Debi Debugger

    .MODEL tiny

    .STACK 0h

INCLUDE \exodus\source\common\keylist.asp
INCLUDE \exodus\source\common\equates.asp
INCLUDE \exodus\source\common\macros.asp
INCLUDE debi_mac.asp       ; Macros used for DEBI
INCLUDE debi_eq.asp        ; Equates used for DEBI

    .386P

_TEXT32 SEGMENT BYTE 'CODE' USE32
    ASSUME NOTHING

; These are required to be the first 2 dwords in the file
dd  offset main
dd  offset requestor

    main    PROC
        mov     ds,cs:data_segment
        mov     ds:bootup,0
        call    initialize_driver
      ; Right now, carry? is SET or CLEAR indicating status of driver
        retf
    main    ENDP

_TEXT32 ENDS

END
-----[ End MASM 6.11d ]-----

-----[ Begin LASM ]-----
include "\libsf\exodus\source\common\keylist.lasp"
include "\libsf\exodus\source\common\equates.lasp"
include "\libsf\exodus\source\common\macros.lasp"
include "debi_mac.lasp"    // Macros used for DEBI
include "debi_eq.lasp"     // Equates used for DEBI

code text32
| org 0
{
    // These are required to be the first 2 dwords in the file
    u32  offset main
    u32  offset requestor

    function main
    {
        mov     ds,cs:data_segment
        mov     ds:bootup,0
        initialize_driver()
      // Right now, carry? is SET or CLEAR indicating status of driver
        retf
    }
}
-----[ End LASM ]-----

I also want to switch every reference to an address or offset to use
the label / token name itself, and for every memory reference related
to its contents or data at its address to use [this] form with brackets.

That will remove the need for "mov eax,offset name" and just use
"mov eax,name" when referring to the address.  And it will use
"mov eax,[name]" when referring to the thing pointed to by name.

    function main
    {
        mov     ds,cs:[data_segment]
        mov     [bootup],0
        initialize_driver()
      // Right now, carry? is SET or CLEAR indicating status of driver
        retf
    }

It will take some getting used to, but it also goes along with a new
syntax I'm allowing for pointer references, and pointer-to-pointer
references in CAlive:

    https://groups.google.com/d/msg/caliveprogramminglanguage/011Japa-DbM/GGTULbgxFgAJ

Example:

    // Traditional C pointer, and pointer-to-pointer syntax:
    char*  p;
    char** pp;
    *p         = 0;
    *pp        = p;
    *(*pp)     = 0;
    *((*pp)+5) = 0;

    // CAlive definition syntax:
    [char]   p;
    [[char]] pp;

    // CAlive use syntax:
    [p]      = 0;  // Same as "*p = 0;"
    [pp]     = p;  // Same as "*pp = p;"
    [[pp]]   = p;  // Same as "*(*pp) = p;"
    [[pp]+5] = p;  // Same as "*((*pp)+5) = p;"
                   // Note:  CAlive fully supports C syntax as well

I actually want to introduce a new symbol in CAlive's GUI which merges
[[ into a single character, and ]] into a single character, allowing
for alignment in the above definitions.  I will also introduce specific
color highlighting, which will likely be a yellow silk-screen effect.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#98765

FromRobert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com>
Date2016-12-11 02:51 -0600
Message-ID<hm4q4c59mpbm10u4m546q1ot949iq09bic@4ax.com>
In reply to#98712
On Sat, 10 Dec 2016 08:37:00 -0800 (PST), "Rick C. Hodgin"
<rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 8:46:36 PM UTC-5, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 12/9/2016 5:00 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> > Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> >> Yikes! Humm, you probably should not look at this:
>> >>
>> >> http://webpages.charter.net/appcore/vzoom/refcount/refcount-ia32-gcc.asm
>> >>
>> >> Your eyes might start bleeding...
>> >>
>> >> ;^)
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I like both AT&T and Intel syntax. I can use them both, and that is okay
>> >> with me
>> >
>> > If forced to use AT&T syntax, I would switch professions.  Not joking.
>> 
>> Wow!
>
>I did a brief impromptu poll in my family, with my non-programmer wife
>who doesn't have any interest in programming, and my 12-year old son
>who is very much like his mother, and they both agreed that the Intel
>syntax is preferable.
>
>Here are some of their reasons:
>
>    1)  Like the brackets more than parenthesis.
>    2)  The % symbol everywhere is "just weird."
>    3)  The Intel syntax aligns things in columns more easily with
>        the variable-length number being after the left-side, which
>        helps it be seen more easily, as in this page:
>        http://webpages.charter.net/appcore/appcore/src/cpu/i686/ac_i686_masm_asm.html
>
>        versus this page:
>        http://webpages.charter.net/appcore/appcore/src/cpu/i686/ac_i686_gcc_asm.html
>
>    4)  The AT&T syntax looks "generally busy."
>    5)  The Intel syntax is nicely spaced, and "simplified."
>
>Could not agree more.  And, I gave them no prompting in finding this
>information out.  I sent them this email unannounced and unspoken to
>regarding the poll:
>
>    -----[ Begin ]-----
>Subject:  Opinion poll -- Which is easier to read
>
>From a straight-forward easiness of reading, which one is easier to read?
>
>#1 -- http://webpages.charter.net/appcore/appcore/src/cpu/i686/ac_i686_masm_asm.html
>
>Or #2 -- http://webpages.charter.net/appcore/appcore/src/cpu/i686/ac_i686_gcc_asm.html
>
>Please choose #1 or #2.
>    -----[ End ]-----
>
>I'd be curious what your non-programmer friends/family think with that
>poll.  And also what your programmer friends/family think. :-)
>
>Seriously, I will never use AT&T syntax.  It breaks my heart that it
>even exists.


While I think Intel syntax for x86 is better than AT&T, it's hardly a
career changer.  Quitting your profession for that reason would be
like a trucker deciding to quit their job because they didn't like the
new font on the updated company logo painted on the side of the truck.
It's just massively far down the list of priorities.

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#98785

From"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-11 04:40 -0800
Message-ID<f6ac0e66-636a-4af3-92ac-34caa5edebe5@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#98765
robert...@yahoo.com wrote:
> While I think Intel syntax for x86 is better than AT&T, it's hardly a
> career changer. Quitting your profession for that reason would
> be like a trucker deciding to quit their job because they didn't
> like the new font on the updated company logo painted on the
> side of the truck.

It's more like they rearranged the gauges to read empty on the
right, and full on the left, and converted their labels to egg latin.

I have dyslexia.  It would be so difficult for me to read AT&T syntax I
would not do it.  Normal reading today is hard enough.  I even still miss things like your post.

Begg-est regg-egegg-ards,
Regg-ick C. Hegg-odgegg-in

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#98989

FromRobert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com>
Date2016-12-11 23:06 -0600
Message-ID<a3bs4c1f2e0f8eh0bv04ai30hcl83imcv4@4ax.com>
In reply to#98785
On Sun, 11 Dec 2016 04:40:00 -0800 (PST), "Rick C. Hodgin"
<rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> wrote:

>robert...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> While I think Intel syntax for x86 is better than AT&T, it's hardly a
>> career changer. Quitting your profession for that reason would
>> be like a trucker deciding to quit their job because they didn't
>> like the new font on the updated company logo painted on the
>> side of the truck.
>
>It's more like they rearranged the gauges to read empty on the
>right, and full on the left, and converted their labels to egg latin.
>
>I have dyslexia.  It would be so difficult for me to read AT&T syntax I
>would not do it.  Normal reading today is hard enough.  I even still miss things like your post.


Yet there have been plenty of assemblers where the "native" form was
source,destination.  Not least 68K, VAX and PDP-11.  Nor do all higher
level programming languages use the conventional "destination = "
form.

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#99032

From"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-12 03:15 -0800
Message-ID<3b4b06af-b0a5-4079-a8e9-043eb7a9cab5@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#98989
robert...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Yet there have been plenty of assemblers where the "native"
> form was source,destination. Not least 68K, VAX and PDP-11.
> Nor do all higher level programming languages use the
> conventional "destination = " form.

What's the purpose of the % everywhere?  It looks like AT&T syntax
was designed explicitly to make it easier for assemblers to parse the
source code, rather than to support the needs of human developers.

I truly believe Intel's assembly syntax is a towering achievement and
triumph over AT&T's syntax.  Intel's own people obviously felt AT&T's
syntax was enough of an issue to devote time and resources to replace
it with something new.  And I believe Intel's syntax is actually elegant
(sans being in all caps).  And I think Microsoft's addition of control
logic (if blocks, while blocks, repeat blocks, etc.) was the next logical
step, and something fabulous added to the toolset.

To quote Trip's best line on Star Trek Enterprise:  "I'm not the only one."
(who thought AT&T's syntax was to be left behind as something
better was pursued, even at the expense of new development time).

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#99060

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2016-12-12 16:12 +0100
Message-ID<o2memm$pka$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#99032
On 12/12/16 12:15, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> robert...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Yet there have been plenty of assemblers where the "native"
>> form was source,destination. Not least 68K, VAX and PDP-11.
>> Nor do all higher level programming languages use the
>> conventional "destination = " form.
> 
> What's the purpose of the % everywhere?  It looks like AT&T syntax
> was designed explicitly to make it easier for assemblers to parse the
> source code, rather than to support the needs of human developers.
> 

It is common to use a symbol such as % to indicate that something is a
register.  It means there is no conflict between register names and
user-defined identifiers.  It is particularly common where you expect to
be using mainly compiled high-level language code, rather than
hand-written assembly - it saves having something like a _ prefix on all
high-level symbols.  And it is useful for humans - it makes it clear
that %X is a register, while X is a symbol.  Assemblers don't care one
way or the other.

It is, of course, not universal - I have used assemblers that use such
register prefixes, and some that don't.  And when I have written larger
programs in assembly (which I used to do, though never for x86) I found
I was often giving other names to the registers anyway, so prefixes made
no difference to me.

> I truly believe Intel's assembly syntax is a towering achievement and
> triumph over AT&T's syntax.

It is an assembler syntax - it is not a candidate for the Nobel prize in
literature!  It is not a "towering achievement" - it's a relatively
simple assembler syntax that just happens to be a bit different from
another assembler syntax for the same processor.  I have nothing against
you having a personal preference here - pick the style you like best.
But your exaggerations just look silly - it really is not such a big
deal.  People use AT&T syntax all the time, and there are many cpus for
which the only standard syntax is much more like AT&T x86 than Intel x86.

If the differences were as extreme as you think, the AT&T syntax would
have died out as soon as Intel's version were available.  And one would
have to question how the very smart people at AT&T managed to come up
with something so truly awful as their assembly syntax while the Intel
people came up with something so truly brilliant.

The reality is that it is very simple to pick an assembly syntax, and
very easy to get used to almost any assembly syntax.

>  Intel's own people obviously felt AT&T's
> syntax was enough of an issue to devote time and resources to replace
> it with something new.

True.  But they would likely have needed to do something anyway, for
adding support for newer features.

>  And I believe Intel's syntax is actually elegant
> (sans being in all caps).  And I think Microsoft's addition of control
> logic (if blocks, while blocks, repeat blocks, etc.) was the next logical
> step, and something fabulous added to the toolset.

There are many types of "high-level assembly constructs" around.  Some
people like them, others don't.  The assemblers I have used have not
supported anything like this, but it was certainly handy to have a few
types of automation such as automatically generating the optimal size of
jump instructions.

> 
> To quote Trip's best line on Star Trek Enterprise:  "I'm not the only one."
> (who thought AT&T's syntax was to be left behind as something
> better was pursued, even at the expense of new development time).
> 

You don't need to quote TV shows to say that there are other people who
prefer Intel x86 format to AT&T.  But there are also other people who
prefer AT&T's syntax, and a good many others who really don't care and
can understand either format.


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