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Groups > comp.lang.c > #97546 > unrolled thread

absence of max

Started byfir <profesor.fir@gmail.com>
First post2016-11-26 12:49 -0800
Last post2016-12-01 12:33 +0800
Articles 20 on this page of 567 — 30 participants

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Contents

  absence of max fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-11-26 12:49 -0800
    absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-26 15:34 -0800
      Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-27 00:21 +0000
        Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-27 04:25 -0800
          Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-11-27 13:54 +0100
            Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-27 13:54 +0000
              Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-27 07:33 -0800
          Re: absence of max Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-11-27 14:06 +0100
          Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-27 17:47 +0100
            Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 07:13 -0800
              Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-28 15:35 +0000
                Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 07:48 -0800
                  Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 07:53 -0800
                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-29 00:14 +0000
                  Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 00:36 +0000
                    Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-29 02:03 +0000
                    Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-28 23:23 -0800
                Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-28 21:05 -0800
              Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-28 16:53 +0100
                Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 08:07 -0800
                  Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-29 10:37 +0100
                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-28 08:26 -0800
                  Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-29 10:42 +0100
              Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-28 08:16 -0800
                Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 09:31 -0800
                  Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-28 10:38 -0800
                    Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 10:59 -0800
                      Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-28 12:09 -0800
                        Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 12:46 -0800
                          Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-28 13:05 -0800
                            Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 13:50 -0800
                              Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-29 10:52 +0100
                                Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-29 05:44 -0800
                                  Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-29 15:12 +0100
                                    Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-29 06:54 -0800
                                      Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-30 10:37 +0100
                                        Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-30 03:07 -0800
                                          Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-30 13:28 +0100
                                            Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-30 05:12 -0800
                  Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-28 18:57 +0000
                    Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-28 11:33 -0800
                    Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-28 20:09 +0000
                      Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-29 10:55 +0100
                        Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-29 10:06 +0000
                          Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-29 11:18 +0100
                            Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-29 10:28 +0000
                      Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 10:49 +0000
                        Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-29 10:51 +0000
                        Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-29 11:40 +0000
                          Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 12:17 +0000
                            Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-29 15:18 +0000
                              Re: absence of max Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-11-29 18:30 +0000
                                Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-29 18:49 +0000
                                  Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-11-29 14:09 -0500
                              Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-29 10:56 -0800
                                Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-29 11:29 -0800
                                  Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 20:27 +0000
                                    Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-29 20:31 +0000
                                      Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-30 10:45 +0100
                                    Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-29 12:54 -0800
                                      Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-11-29 16:21 -0500
                                        Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 21:47 +0000
                                      Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 21:30 +0000
                                        Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-29 14:12 -0800
                                          Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 22:27 +0000
                                            Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-29 22:33 +0000
                                            Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-11-29 14:52 -0800
                                              Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-29 15:43 -0800
                            Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-29 23:51 +0000
                              Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-30 00:51 +0000
                                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-30 02:08 +0000
                                Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-29 18:10 -0800
                    Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 12:29 -0800
                      Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-28 21:30 +0000
                        Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 13:47 -0800
                          Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-28 14:59 -0800
                            Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 15:13 -0800
                          Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 00:12 +0000
                          Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-29 01:11 +0000
                            Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-28 18:01 -0800
                              Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-29 02:19 +0000
                              Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-29 13:26 -0800
                                Re: absence of max "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-29 17:09 -0800
                    Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-29 00:01 +0000
                      Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 00:29 +0000
                        Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-28 17:02 -0800
                          Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 01:21 +0000
                            Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-28 17:53 -0800
                            Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-28 23:11 -0800
                        Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-29 02:12 +0000
                          Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 11:17 +0000
                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-11-29 09:46 -0500
                              Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 15:45 +0000
                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-11-29 17:04 -0500
                            Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-29 07:21 -0800
                              Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-29 15:50 +0000
                            Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-30 00:19 +0000
                              Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-30 00:43 +0000
                                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-30 01:51 +0000
                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-11-29 22:26 -0500
                                  Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-30 11:25 +0000
                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-11-30 09:07 -0500
                                      Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-30 14:22 +0000
                                        Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-30 09:03 -0800
                                          Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-30 23:38 +0000
                                            Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-30 15:49 -0800
                                              Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-01 00:10 +0000
                                                Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-30 17:22 -0800
                                                  Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-01 01:40 +0000
                                                    Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-30 18:03 -0800
                                        Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-11-30 17:25 -0500
                                          Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-30 23:29 +0000
                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-11-30 23:55 -0500
                                            Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-01 10:05 +0100
                                              Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-01 11:20 +0000
                                                Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-01 11:41 +0000
                                                Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-01 13:48 +0100
                                                  Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-01 10:43 -0800
                                                  Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-01 21:23 +0000
                                                    Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-01 14:41 -0800
                                                    Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-02 09:39 +0100
                                              Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-01 11:35 +0000
                                                Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-01 14:51 +0100
                                                  Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-01 15:05 +0000
                                                Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-01 10:49 -0800
                                                  Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-01 20:48 +0000
                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-01 16:51 -0500
                                          Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-01 01:18 +0000
                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-11-30 23:57 -0500
                                              Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-01 11:38 +0000
                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-01 13:28 -0500
                                                  Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-02 00:06 +0000
                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-01 20:02 -0500
                                                      Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-02 02:22 +0000
                                                        Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-01 21:42 -0500
                                                          Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-03 01:56 +0000
                                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-02 21:25 -0500
                                                              Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-03 02:33 +0000
                                                              Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-03 15:20 +0100
                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-03 15:40 -0500
                                                    Re: absence of max Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-02 21:57 +1300
                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-02 10:46 -0500
                                    Re: absence of max asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2016-11-30 06:36 -0800
                                      Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-30 16:41 +0000
                            Re: absence of max Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-30 20:50 +1300
                              Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-30 11:11 +0000
                                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-30 12:00 +0000
                                  Re: absence of max James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-11-30 11:32 -0500
                                    Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-30 19:25 +0000
                                      Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-30 20:45 +0000
                                        Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-30 12:52 -0800
                                        Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-30 14:17 -0800
                                          Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-01 10:14 +0100
                                            Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-01 07:37 -0800
                                              Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-01 17:05 +0100
                                                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-01 10:06 -0800
                                                Re: absence of max James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-01 13:53 -0500
                                                  Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-01 12:22 -0800
                                                    Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-01 19:02 -0800
                                                  Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-02 10:05 +0100
                                                    Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-02 11:01 -0500
                                                      Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-02 17:28 +0100
                                                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-01 21:13 +0000
                                              Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-01 10:53 -0800
                                                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-01 11:51 -0800
                                                  Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-01 12:52 -0800
                                                    Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-01 14:28 -0800
                                                      Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-01 14:48 -0800
                                                        Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-01 15:00 -0800
                                                      Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-01 19:28 -0800
                                                        Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-02 10:30 +0000
                                                        Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-02 07:24 -0800
                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-02 10:50 -0500
                                                            Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-02 09:39 -0800
                                                              Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-02 10:17 -0800
                                                                Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-02 11:46 -0800
                                                                  Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-02 15:02 -0500
                                                                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-02 11:58 -0800
                                                                  Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-02 13:25 -0800
                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-02 15:31 -0500
                                                                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-02 13:34 -0800
                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-02 19:32 -0500
                                                                    Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-03 01:11 +0000
                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-02 20:48 -0500
                                                                        Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-03 02:11 +0000
                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-02 21:27 -0500
                                                                            Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-03 02:50 +0000
                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-02 22:45 -0500
                                                                                Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-03 11:07 +0000
                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-03 15:46 -0500
                                                                                    Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-03 13:46 -0800
                                                                                      Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-03 23:29 +0000
                                                                                        Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-03 18:42 -0500
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-03 23:59 +0000
                                                                                        Re: absence of max Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-10 08:31 -0800
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-10 13:51 -0800
                                                                                            Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-10 22:08 +0000
                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-03 20:19 -0500
                                                                                        Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-04 01:28 +0000
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-04 14:34 +1300
                                                                                            Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-05 00:02 +0000
                                                                                              Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-05 10:34 +0100
                                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-05 08:38 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-05 15:52 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-05 16:03 -0500
                                                                                        Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-03 19:19 -0800
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-04 11:26 -0500
                                                                                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-03 11:33 +0000
                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-03 15:48 -0500
                                                                                    Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-04 00:59 +0000
                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-03 20:23 -0500
                                                                          Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-03 10:32 -0500
                                                                            Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-03 17:15 +0100
                                                                              Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-03 08:33 -0800
                                                                                Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-03 11:08 -0800
                                                                            Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-03 21:31 +0000
                                                                    Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-04 08:40 -0800
                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-04 19:39 -0500
                                                                        Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-05 07:15 -0800
                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-05 16:09 -0500
                                                                            Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-05 13:38 -0800
                                                                            Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-05 14:12 -0800
                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-05 22:21 -0500
                                                                                Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-05 22:05 -0800
                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-06 10:46 -0500
                                                                                    Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-06 09:45 -0800
                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-06 13:25 -0500
                                                                                        Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-06 10:33 -0800
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-06 16:25 -0500
                                                                                            Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-06 15:10 -0800
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-06 20:48 -0500
                                                                                                Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-07 14:43 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 09:26 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-08 11:32 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 21:56 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-08 20:28 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 10:10 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-08 21:17 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 22:01 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-09 20:00 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 22:51 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2016-12-10 04:44 +0000
                                                                            Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-05 22:49 +0000
                                                                              Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-05 15:24 -0800
                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-05 22:25 -0500
                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-05 22:24 -0500
                                                                                Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-05 22:47 -0800
                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-06 10:51 -0500
                                                                                    Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-06 10:25 -0800
                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-06 16:26 -0500
                                                                                        Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-07 02:09 +0000
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-07 09:30 -0500
                                                                                            Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-08 01:44 +0000
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 09:29 -0500
                                                                                                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-08 21:54 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 22:05 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 11:39 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 10:16 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 16:45 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-09 21:07 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 22:58 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-10 17:49 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-09 16:46 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 22:56 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-10 14:04 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-10 08:45 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-10 14:54 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 15:40 -0500
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-11 23:13 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 17:59 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-12 18:13 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 16:02 -0500
                                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-16 22:47 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 22:38 -0500
                                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-17 14:43 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-17 13:52 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 10:00 -0500
                                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 09:58 -0500
                                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-17 16:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 22:48 -0500
                                                                                                                                        Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-18 16:51 +0100
                                                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-19 11:54 -0500
                                                                                                                                            Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-19 21:24 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-19 17:38 -0500
                                                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-19 15:11 -0800
                                                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-19 19:12 -0500
                                                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-19 17:23 -0800
                                                                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-19 21:41 -0500
                                                                                                                                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-17 09:23 -0800
                                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 22:49 -0500
                                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-18 08:26 -0800
                                                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-19 11:56 -0500
                                                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-19 19:19 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-19 17:40 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-10 18:03 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 15:44 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-10 01:19 -0600
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-09 21:52 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 23:02 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-10 12:59 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 15:52 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-12 03:18 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 22:29 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-12 04:12 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-12 09:44 -0500
                                                                                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-06 06:10 -0800
                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-06 10:58 -0500
                                                                                    Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-06 10:21 -0800
                                                                                      Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-06 10:25 -0800
                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-06 16:28 -0500
                                                                                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-07 02:48 +0000
                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-07 09:34 -0500
                                                                                    Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-07 06:58 -0800
                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-07 15:15 -0500
                                                                                        Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-07 12:30 -0800
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-07 16:25 -0500
                                                                                            Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-07 13:46 -0800
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-07 13:53 -0800
                                                                                                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-07 14:03 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-07 14:50 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-10 07:46 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-10 13:44 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-14 22:12 -0800
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-07 17:00 -0500
                                                                                                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-07 14:08 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-07 17:28 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-07 17:29 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-07 14:49 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-07 16:24 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-07 17:04 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-10 07:29 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-10 13:37 -0800
                                                                                                Re: absence of max me <crisdunbar@gmail.com> - 2016-12-07 14:25 -0800
                                                                                                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-08 02:19 +0000
                                                                                    Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-08 02:07 +0000
                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 09:36 -0500
                                                                                        Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-08 16:22 +0100
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 10:52 -0500
                                                                                            Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 08:11 -0800
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 22:08 -0500
                                                                                            Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-08 12:50 -0800
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-09 10:14 +1300
                                                                                                Re: absence of max Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-12-08 22:17 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-09 10:21 +1300
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-12-08 22:24 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 13:06 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-09 21:15 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 23:05 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-10 03:22 -0600
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-10 15:12 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 15:57 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-12 00:13 -0600
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-12 09:48 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-10 14:11 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 15:59 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-11 23:18 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 17:59 -0500
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-12 18:18 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 16:04 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-16 22:48 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 22:39 -0500
                                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-17 14:45 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 10:01 -0500
                                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-17 11:27 -0800
                                                                                                                                People who confuse and jumble up the difference between past, present, and future (Was: absence of max) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2016-12-17 20:07 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 10:17 -0500
                                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 22:17 -0500
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 22:15 -0500
                                                                                                Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-09 08:40 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 13:19 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-09 12:29 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 14:34 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 10:24 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 16:58 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 23:09 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-11 20:56 +1300
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-09 16:52 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-09 13:35 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-09 13:42 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-09 13:54 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-10 07:54 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-11 16:14 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-11 18:11 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-14 21:08 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 10:25 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 10:18 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-09 15:55 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 23:11 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 10:21 -0500
                                                                                                Re: absence of max Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-10 01:48 -0600
                                                                                            Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 13:02 +0100
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 10:39 -0500
                                                                                                Re: absence of max cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2016-12-10 04:37 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-10 00:13 -0500
                                                                                        Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-08 22:22 +0000
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 22:19 -0500
                                                                                    Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-07 19:40 -0800
                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 09:38 -0500
                                                                                        Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 07:52 -0800
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-08 19:37 +0000
                                                                                            Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 14:46 -0800
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-08 15:46 -0800
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-13 13:04 -0800
                                                                                                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-13 13:38 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-13 14:07 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-13 22:51 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-14 08:17 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-14 11:49 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-14 16:53 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-15 05:14 -0800
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-15 15:02 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-15 08:54 -0800
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-12-15 19:55 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-15 13:48 -0800
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-15 14:20 -0800
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-15 15:32 -0800
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-15 23:44 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-16 07:00 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-16 08:21 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-16 21:10 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-16 13:24 -0800
                                                                                                                            Re: absence of max "D. Aaron Sawyer" <aaron@110.net> - 2016-12-16 18:51 -0400
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-12-20 09:03 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-20 02:21 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-14 19:05 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-14 22:46 -0800
                                                                                            Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 15:58 -0800
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-09 00:18 +0000
                                                                                                Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-09 07:25 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-09 11:29 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-10 09:07 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-10 14:20 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-09 21:31 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 23:15 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-10 12:15 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 16:04 -0500
                                                                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 22:27 -0500
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-09 22:11 +0000
                                                                                                Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-09 15:45 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 23:21 -0500
                                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 23:19 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-10 12:11 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 16:04 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-12 03:15 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 22:31 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-12 04:14 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-12 09:50 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-12 23:18 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 16:05 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-17 02:58 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 22:40 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-12 18:20 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 17:29 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-12 18:53 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 17:58 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2016-12-12 19:11 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-13 10:31 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-12 15:38 -0800
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-12-15 12:08 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 16:06 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-16 22:49 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 22:44 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-17 14:47 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 10:04 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-17 16:45 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 22:51 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-17 13:52 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 22:51 -0500
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Parity Error <kgf@quiscurat.net> - 2016-12-18 09:17 +0000
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 22:23 -0500
                                                                                        Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-08 12:23 -0800
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-08 20:45 +0000
                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-08 22:32 -0500
                                                                                            Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-09 08:42 +0000
                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 10:40 -0500
                                                                                                Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-09 16:10 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-09 23:33 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-11 15:02 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-11 13:01 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 16:11 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-11 23:11 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 18:59 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 00:09 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 20:56 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 08:04 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-12 09:50 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-11 16:18 -0800
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-11 19:38 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 21:04 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-12 03:35 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-12 09:52 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-12 23:22 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-12 17:35 +1300
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-12 09:54 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 08:17 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-12 13:01 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 13:16 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-12 10:05 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 15:21 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 16:09 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-12 13:12 -0800
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-12 03:01 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 22:03 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-12 12:58 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 16:11 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-16 22:53 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 22:46 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-17 14:49 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 10:07 -0500
                                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-17 16:47 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-17 22:53 -0500
                                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Parity Error <kgf@quiscurat.net> - 2016-12-18 09:11 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-12 18:32 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-12 13:26 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Robert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com> - 2016-12-12 19:39 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-12 11:31 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 16:07 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-11 23:10 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 19:01 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 00:11 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-11 21:06 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 08:19 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-12 10:07 -0500
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 15:22 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: absence of max Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-16 16:13 -0500
                                                                                                                    Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-12 15:38 +0000
                                                          Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-02 08:54 -0800
                                                          Re: absence of max Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-02 17:20 +0000
                                                        Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-02 07:35 -0800
                                                          Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-12-02 09:52 -0800
                                                            Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-02 10:44 -0800
                                      Re: absence of max James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-11-30 16:52 -0500
                                Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-30 08:31 -0800
                        Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-28 23:15 -0800
                  Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-29 10:49 +0100
        Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-27 17:35 +0100
          Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-27 09:39 -0800
            Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-27 20:35 +0100
              Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-27 20:10 +0000
                Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-27 22:07 +0100
                  Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-27 22:55 +0000
                    Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-28 12:46 +0100
                      Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-28 13:16 +0000
                        Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-28 14:52 +0100
                      Re: absence of max jadill33@gmail.com - 2016-11-28 09:41 -0800
                        Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-29 11:04 +0100
          Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-27 18:02 +0000
            Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-27 20:52 +0100
              Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-27 20:31 +0000
                Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-27 22:09 +0000
                  Re: absence of max supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-27 14:14 -0800
                    Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-27 23:02 +0000
                      Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-27 23:26 +0000
                        Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-27 23:43 +0000
                          Re: absence of max Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-27 23:46 +0000
                            Re: absence of max David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-28 12:56 +0100
                          Re: absence of max jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-11-27 16:21 -0800
            Re: absence of max Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-28 10:10 -0800
    Re: absence of max Tim Prince <tprince@computer.org> - 2016-11-27 07:40 -0500
    absence of max asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2016-11-27 08:46 -0800
      Re: absence of max fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-11-27 09:18 -0800
        Re: absence of max asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2016-11-27 09:22 -0800
          Re: absence of max fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-11-27 09:27 -0800
          Re: absence of max BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-27 17:33 +0000
            Re: absence of max Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-11-27 17:51 +0000
    Re: absence of max Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2016-11-30 13:15 -0500
    Re: absence of max "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 12:33 +0800

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#99808

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2016-12-18 16:51 +0100
Message-ID<o36b7b$715$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#99779
On 18/12/16 04:48, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 12/17/2016 10:39 AM, Robert Spanjaard wrote:
>> On 17-12-16 15:58, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> On 12/17/2016 8:43 AM, Robert Spanjaard wrote:
>>>> On 17-12-16 04:38, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>> On 12/16/2016 4:47 PM, Robert Spanjaard wrote:
>>>>>> On 16-12-16 22:02, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12/12/2016 12:13 PM, Robert Spanjaard wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11-12-16 23:59, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> There have been all kinds of niche systems which have failed
>>>>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>>>>> history of computing.  I'm not talking about those.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As usual, you narrow down the requirements AFTER you're proven
>>>>>>>>>> wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nope, no narrowing down the requirements.  Just ignoring niche
>>>>>>>>> systems
>>>>>>>>> that have failed.  They aren't worth talking about.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Almost 5 million units sold. What a failure indeed. But hey, you
>>>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>>> try something when you can't bear the idea of admitting that you're
>>>>>>>> wrong.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I said - a niche system that failed.  5 million units is less than
>>>>>>> the number of PC's that sell in a month.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not in the 80's. By your standards, every computer from that era is a
>>>>>> failure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Who said anything about in the 80's?  5 million is the TOTAL number of
>>>>> Amigas sold - over several years.
>>>>
>>>> My god, at least try to remember what we're talking about, I'm not
>>>> going to
>>>> repeat myself endlessly just to fill the gaps in that grey mass of
>>>> yours.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Oh, I remember what we're talking about.  You said there were 5 million
>>> Amigas sold.  That's a niche market,
>>
>> It's not.
>>
>
> 5 million computers is a niche market.  Nothing more.
>

There are perhaps 10,000 mainframe computers in use today.  Clearly, 
it's a niche system that failed.

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#99858

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2016-12-19 11:54 -0500
Message-ID<o3939t$a1$1@jstuckle.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#99808
On 12/18/2016 10:51 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 18/12/16 04:48, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 12/17/2016 10:39 AM, Robert Spanjaard wrote:
>>> On 17-12-16 15:58, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>> On 12/17/2016 8:43 AM, Robert Spanjaard wrote:
>>>>> On 17-12-16 04:38, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/16/2016 4:47 PM, Robert Spanjaard wrote:
>>>>>>> On 16-12-16 22:02, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 12/12/2016 12:13 PM, Robert Spanjaard wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11-12-16 23:59, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> There have been all kinds of niche systems which have failed
>>>>>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> history of computing.  I'm not talking about those.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As usual, you narrow down the requirements AFTER you're proven
>>>>>>>>>>> wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nope, no narrowing down the requirements.  Just ignoring niche
>>>>>>>>>> systems
>>>>>>>>>> that have failed.  They aren't worth talking about.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Almost 5 million units sold. What a failure indeed. But hey, you
>>>>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>>>> try something when you can't bear the idea of admitting that
>>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>> wrong.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As I said - a niche system that failed.  5 million units is less
>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>> the number of PC's that sell in a month.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not in the 80's. By your standards, every computer from that era
>>>>>>> is a
>>>>>>> failure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who said anything about in the 80's?  5 million is the TOTAL
>>>>>> number of
>>>>>> Amigas sold - over several years.
>>>>>
>>>>> My god, at least try to remember what we're talking about, I'm not
>>>>> going to
>>>>> repeat myself endlessly just to fill the gaps in that grey mass of
>>>>> yours.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh, I remember what we're talking about.  You said there were 5 million
>>>> Amigas sold.  That's a niche market,
>>>
>>> It's not.
>>>
>>
>> 5 million computers is a niche market.  Nothing more.
>>
> 
> There are perhaps 10,000 mainframe computers in use today.  Clearly,
> it's a niche system that failed.
> 

There are more than 10,000 in the world.  And they are still in use.  No
failures there.

But trolls don't understand that.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#99875

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2016-12-19 21:24 +0100
Message-ID<o39fjc$kjp$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#99858
On 19/12/16 17:54, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 12/18/2016 10:51 AM, David Brown wrote:
>> On 18/12/16 04:48, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> On 12/17/2016 10:39 AM, Robert Spanjaard wrote:
>>>> On 17-12-16 15:58, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>> On 12/17/2016 8:43 AM, Robert Spanjaard wrote:
>>>>>> On 17-12-16 04:38, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12/16/2016 4:47 PM, Robert Spanjaard wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 16-12-16 22:02, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 12/12/2016 12:13 PM, Robert Spanjaard wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 11-12-16 23:59, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There have been all kinds of niche systems which have failed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> history of computing.  I'm not talking about those.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As usual, you narrow down the requirements AFTER you're proven
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, no narrowing down the requirements.  Just ignoring niche
>>>>>>>>>>> systems
>>>>>>>>>>> that have failed.  They aren't worth talking about.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Almost 5 million units sold. What a failure indeed. But hey, you
>>>>>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>>>>> try something when you can't bear the idea of admitting that
>>>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>>> wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As I said - a niche system that failed.  5 million units is less
>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>> the number of PC's that sell in a month.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not in the 80's. By your standards, every computer from that era
>>>>>>>> is a
>>>>>>>> failure.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Who said anything about in the 80's?  5 million is the TOTAL
>>>>>>> number of
>>>>>>> Amigas sold - over several years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My god, at least try to remember what we're talking about, I'm not
>>>>>> going to
>>>>>> repeat myself endlessly just to fill the gaps in that grey mass of
>>>>>> yours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, I remember what we're talking about.  You said there were 5 million
>>>>> Amigas sold.  That's a niche market,
>>>>
>>>> It's not.
>>>>
>>>
>>> 5 million computers is a niche market.  Nothing more.
>>>
>>
>> There are perhaps 10,000 mainframe computers in use today.  Clearly,
>> it's a niche system that failed.
>>
>
> There are more than 10,000 in the world.  And they are still in use.  No
> failures there.
>
> But trolls don't understand that.
>

Whoosh!

That's the sound of the sarcasm flying right over your head.

(Hint - if you knew anything about the history of computers, and how 
software and hardware have developed over the decades, you would know 
that the Amiga was an extremely successful computer in its time.  While 
it may be niche /now/, it was very far from a niche product in its time, 
and both the Amiga hardware and software have had very significant 
influences on later computers.)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#99877

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2016-12-19 17:38 -0500
Message-ID<o39ndt$is7$1@jstuckle.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#99875
On 12/19/2016 3:24 PM, David Brown wrote:
> On 19/12/16 17:54, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 12/18/2016 10:51 AM, David Brown wrote:
>>> On 18/12/16 04:48, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>> On 12/17/2016 10:39 AM, Robert Spanjaard wrote:
>>>>> On 17-12-16 15:58, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/17/2016 8:43 AM, Robert Spanjaard wrote:
>>>>>>> On 17-12-16 04:38, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 12/16/2016 4:47 PM, Robert Spanjaard wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 16-12-16 22:02, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 12/12/2016 12:13 PM, Robert Spanjaard wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11-12-16 23:59, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There have been all kinds of niche systems which have failed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> history of computing.  I'm not talking about those.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As usual, you narrow down the requirements AFTER you're proven
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, no narrowing down the requirements.  Just ignoring niche
>>>>>>>>>>>> systems
>>>>>>>>>>>> that have failed.  They aren't worth talking about.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Almost 5 million units sold. What a failure indeed. But hey, you
>>>>>>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>>>>>> try something when you can't bear the idea of admitting that
>>>>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>>>> wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As I said - a niche system that failed.  5 million units is less
>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>> the number of PC's that sell in a month.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not in the 80's. By your standards, every computer from that era
>>>>>>>>> is a
>>>>>>>>> failure.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Who said anything about in the 80's?  5 million is the TOTAL
>>>>>>>> number of
>>>>>>>> Amigas sold - over several years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My god, at least try to remember what we're talking about, I'm not
>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>> repeat myself endlessly just to fill the gaps in that grey mass of
>>>>>>> yours.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh, I remember what we're talking about.  You said there were 5
>>>>>> million
>>>>>> Amigas sold.  That's a niche market,
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5 million computers is a niche market.  Nothing more.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There are perhaps 10,000 mainframe computers in use today.  Clearly,
>>> it's a niche system that failed.
>>>
>>
>> There are more than 10,000 in the world.  And they are still in use.  No
>> failures there.
>>
>> But trolls don't understand that.
>>
> 
> Whoosh!
> 
> That's the sound of the sarcasm flying right over your head.
> 
> (Hint - if you knew anything about the history of computers, and how
> software and hardware have developed over the decades, you would know
> that the Amiga was an extremely successful computer in its time.  While
> it may be niche /now/, it was very far from a niche product in its time,
> and both the Amiga hardware and software have had very significant
> influences on later computers.)
> 

No, I understood the sarcasm.  But I chose to ignore it because of whom
it came from.

And exactly what were the "very significant influences on later computers"?

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#99880

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com>
Date2016-12-19 15:11 -0800
Message-ID<16f7f198-2ab1-4da9-87bd-23aaf7c89d2f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#99877
On Monday, December 19, 2016 at 10:38:19 PM UTC, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> 
> And exactly what were the "very significant influences on later computers"?
> 
The IFF file format, for one.
Horrid thing, but it's used as the wrapper for .jpeg, .tiff, and many sound file formats. 

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#99881

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2016-12-19 19:12 -0500
Message-ID<o39stl$9eq$1@jstuckle.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#99880
On 12/19/2016 6:11 PM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Monday, December 19, 2016 at 10:38:19 PM UTC, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>
>> And exactly what were the "very significant influences on later computers"?
>>
> The IFF file format, for one.
> Horrid thing, but it's used as the wrapper for .jpeg, .tiff, and many sound file formats. 
> 

Half-truth.  The IFF format was actually created by Electronic Arts.
Commodore was only the first company to implement the format.

The .tiff and .jpeg formats are completely unrelated.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
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==================

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#99883

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com>
Date2016-12-19 17:23 -0800
Message-ID<405d49ec-f052-4a0f-a2f5-82af9769590d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#99881
On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 12:12:09 AM UTC, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 12/19/2016 6:11 PM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> 
> Half-truth.  The IFF format was actually created by Electronic Arts.
> Commodore was only the first company to implement the format.
> 
> The .tiff and .jpeg formats are completely unrelated.
> 
The BabyX resource compiler is where I maintain my format codecs.

https://github.com/MalcolmMcLean/babyxrc

If you check JPEG and TIFF you'll see that they use the IFF chunk system. 
That's why JPEGs are sometimes called "JIF" files, technically and
for some obscure legal reason JPEG is the compression algorithm but
not the file format.

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#99887

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2016-12-19 21:41 -0500
Message-ID<o3a5ml$pgc$1@jstuckle.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#99883
On 12/19/2016 8:23 PM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 12:12:09 AM UTC, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 12/19/2016 6:11 PM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>
>> Half-truth.  The IFF format was actually created by Electronic Arts.
>> Commodore was only the first company to implement the format.
>>
>> The .tiff and .jpeg formats are completely unrelated.
>>
> The BabyX resource compiler is where I maintain my format codecs.
> 
> https://github.com/MalcolmMcLean/babyxrc
> 
> If you check JPEG and TIFF you'll see that they use the IFF chunk system. 
> That's why JPEGs are sometimes called "JIF" files, technically and
> for some obscure legal reason JPEG is the compression algorithm but
> not the file format.
> 

Although I hate to quote Wikipedia because it's wrong almost as often as
it's right, in this case it is correct:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interchange_File_Format

"The TIFF image file format is unrelated."

And if you look at the history of JPEGs it says nothing about IFF:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG_File_Interchange_Format

Just because they use a similar chunk system does not mean they are
related to IFF.  They are not.


-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
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#99756

Fromsupercat@casperkitty.com
Date2016-12-17 09:23 -0800
Message-ID<a78be0a0-1775-49cf-90e7-ca7fc370ede5@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#99723
On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 9:38:51 PM UTC-6, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> Who said anything about in the 80's?  5 million is the TOTAL number of
> Amigas sold - over several years.

In 1991, there were something under 20,000,000 personal computers sold, in
total.  Of those, over 1,000,000 were Amigas.  For a personal computing
product to sell 1,000,000 units in 2015 would not even make it a blip on the
radar, but in 1991 the Amiga had more than 5% market share.  Not humongous,
but not trivial either.  Sure, PCs totally crowded everything out, but the
Amiga had a pretty healthy share of the "not-PC" market.

Out of curiosity, would you consider the Apple II line a success or a
failure?  The total number of machines Apple sold in that line was about
6.5 million--only sightly more than the Amiga.  Most people would consider
the Apple II as one of the more successful architectures of all time, but
perhaps you'd view it otherwise?

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#99780

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2016-12-17 22:49 -0500
Message-ID<o350t4$qpq$2@jstuckle.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#99756
On 12/17/2016 12:23 PM, supercat@casperkitty.com wrote:
> On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 9:38:51 PM UTC-6, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> Who said anything about in the 80's?  5 million is the TOTAL number of
>> Amigas sold - over several years.
> 
> In 1991, there were something under 20,000,000 personal computers sold, in
> total.  Of those, over 1,000,000 were Amigas.  For a personal computing
> product to sell 1,000,000 units in 2015 would not even make it a blip on the
> radar, but in 1991 the Amiga had more than 5% market share.  Not humongous,
> but not trivial either.  Sure, PCs totally crowded everything out, but the
> Amiga had a pretty healthy share of the "not-PC" market.
> 
> Out of curiosity, would you consider the Apple II line a success or a
> failure?  The total number of machines Apple sold in that line was about
> 6.5 million--only sightly more than the Amiga.  Most people would consider
> the Apple II as one of the more successful architectures of all time, but
> perhaps you'd view it otherwise?
> 

Apple II was a success - it was the forerunner of multiple other Apple
products.  The Amiga was a failed computer from a failed company in a
niche market.  Nothing more.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#99813

Fromsupercat@casperkitty.com
Date2016-12-18 08:26 -0800
Message-ID<16e29552-64f1-40f9-9564-e0195ac31612@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#99780
On Saturday, December 17, 2016 at 9:49:20 PM UTC-6, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> Apple II was a success - it was the forerunner of multiple other Apple
> products.  The Amiga was a failed computer from a failed company in a
> niche market.  Nothing more.

The combined sales volume for all Apple machines that are even remotely based
on the Apple II architecture, including the Apple IIgs and the Apple ///,
is under seven million.  The Macintosh was a totally different architecture
which has nothing in common with any predecessors in the Apple II line, so
its sales can't be credited to the Apple II architecture.

Seven million is bigger than five million, but not by so much that the
former should be considered a great success and the latter a failure.

Looking merely at raw sales volume would imply that any architecture which
wasn't sold in the last few years was a "failure in a niche market".  If
one looks at fraction of sales volume, for much of its run the Amiga was in
third place behind the Macintosh but well ahead of anything else.

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#99859

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2016-12-19 11:56 -0500
Message-ID<o393dh$a1$2@jstuckle.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#99813
On 12/18/2016 11:26 AM, supercat@casperkitty.com wrote:
> On Saturday, December 17, 2016 at 9:49:20 PM UTC-6, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> Apple II was a success - it was the forerunner of multiple other Apple
>> products.  The Amiga was a failed computer from a failed company in a
>> niche market.  Nothing more.
> 
> The combined sales volume for all Apple machines that are even remotely based
> on the Apple II architecture, including the Apple IIgs and the Apple ///,
> is under seven million.  The Macintosh was a totally different architecture
> which has nothing in common with any predecessors in the Apple II line, so
> its sales can't be credited to the Apple II architecture.
> 
> Seven million is bigger than five million, but not by so much that the
> former should be considered a great success and the latter a failure.
> 
> Looking merely at raw sales volume would imply that any architecture which
> wasn't sold in the last few years was a "failure in a niche market".  If
> one looks at fraction of sales volume, for much of its run the Amiga was in
> third place behind the Macintosh but well ahead of anything else.
> 

So?  The Mac was still an extension for the Apple II, even though they
didn't have the same architecture.  And Apple is still going strong.
The Amiga had no successor systems and Commodore is long gone.

But I know that's way too much info for your brain to grasp.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#99860

FromRobert Spanjaard <spamtrap@arumes.com>
Date2016-12-19 19:19 +0100
Message-ID<o398bo$1p94$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#99813
On 18-12-16 17:26, supercat@casperkitty.com wrote:
> On Saturday, December 17, 2016 at 9:49:20 PM UTC-6, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> Apple II was a success - it was the forerunner of multiple other Apple
>> products.  The Amiga was a failed computer from a failed company in a
>> niche market.  Nothing more.
>
> The combined sales volume for all Apple machines that are even remotely based
> on the Apple II architecture, including the Apple IIgs and the Apple ///,
> is under seven million.  The Macintosh was a totally different architecture
> which has nothing in common with any predecessors in the Apple II line, so
> its sales can't be credited to the Apple II architecture.
>
> Seven million is bigger than five million, but not by so much that the
> former should be considered a great success and the latter a failure.
>
> Looking merely at raw sales volume would imply that any architecture which
> wasn't sold in the last few years was a "failure in a niche market".  If
> one looks at fraction of sales volume, for much of its run the Amiga was in
> third place behind the Macintosh but well ahead of anything else.

You can argue all you want, but Jerry will always find another excuse to
exclude the Amiga because that system disproves his statement that "at best
they used null modem cables and copied files one at a time with a terminal
program" in his debate about the survival of old software packages.
<o2fubo$a4s$1@jstuckle.eternal-september.org>

When he acknowledges the success of the Amiga, he'll have to admit he was
wrong. Do you think you can make him do that?

-- 
Robert Spanjaard

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#99878

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2016-12-19 17:40 -0500
Message-ID<o39nhk$is7$2@jstuckle.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#99860
On 12/19/2016 1:19 PM, Robert Spanjaard wrote:
> On 18-12-16 17:26, supercat@casperkitty.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, December 17, 2016 at 9:49:20 PM UTC-6, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> Apple II was a success - it was the forerunner of multiple other Apple
>>> products.  The Amiga was a failed computer from a failed company in a
>>> niche market.  Nothing more.
>>
>> The combined sales volume for all Apple machines that are even
>> remotely based
>> on the Apple II architecture, including the Apple IIgs and the Apple ///,
>> is under seven million.  The Macintosh was a totally different
>> architecture
>> which has nothing in common with any predecessors in the Apple II
>> line, so
>> its sales can't be credited to the Apple II architecture.
>>
>> Seven million is bigger than five million, but not by so much that the
>> former should be considered a great success and the latter a failure.
>>
>> Looking merely at raw sales volume would imply that any architecture
>> which
>> wasn't sold in the last few years was a "failure in a niche market".  If
>> one looks at fraction of sales volume, for much of its run the Amiga
>> was in
>> third place behind the Macintosh but well ahead of anything else.
> 
> You can argue all you want, but Jerry will always find another excuse to
> exclude the Amiga because that system disproves his statement that "at best
> they used null modem cables and copied files one at a time with a terminal
> program" in his debate about the survival of old software packages.
> <o2fubo$a4s$1@jstuckle.eternal-september.org>
> 
> When he acknowledges the success of the Amiga, he'll have to admit he was
> wrong. Do you think you can make him do that?
> 

Once again you take statements out of context.  But that's what trolls do.

The Amiga was just a(nother) failed computer in a niche market.  If it
were so great, both it's descendants and Commodore would still be around.

-- 
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Jerry Stuckle
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==================

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#98714

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2016-12-10 18:03 +0100
Message-ID<o2hcdk$ecq$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#98647
On 10/12/16 04:56, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>
> I have no reason to think he has software from 31 years ago.  Plus, in
> the days before the internet, copying from computer to computer was much
> more difficult.  Few people had networks; at best they used null modem
> cables and copied files one at a time with a terminal program.
>

Let me think back 31 years.  I think it was about that sort of time that 
I first used a network of BBC micros, connected to a server with a hard 
disk.  That made copying software quite easy.

Of course, I fully agree that copying software has become easier since 
those days.  Certainly the decade from 30 years ago to 20 years ago made 
a very large difference.  But for people involved in more serious 
programming, they would have archives of the tools they used - most 
likely on tape.  And if those tools were needed later, at some time they 
get transferred to hard disk.  So if someone says they have 30 years old 
software on tap, then I believe them unless I have overwhelming reason 
not to.

> And where's your comment about the "diskette straw man" you referred to
> above?  Maybe because you have no idea?
>

I have no idea which "diskette straw man" argument you are referring to 
here - there have been too many silly points in this thread to keep up 
with them all.

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#98888

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2016-12-11 15:44 -0500
Message-ID<o2kdp4$c9u$1@jstuckle.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#98714
On 12/10/2016 12:03 PM, David Brown wrote:
> On 10/12/16 04:56, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>
>> I have no reason to think he has software from 31 years ago.  Plus, in
>> the days before the internet, copying from computer to computer was much
>> more difficult.  Few people had networks; at best they used null modem
>> cables and copied files one at a time with a terminal program.
>>
> 
> Let me think back 31 years.  I think it was about that sort of time that
> I first used a network of BBC micros, connected to a server with a hard
> disk.  That made copying software quite easy.
>

Did you even read where I said "FEW PEOPLE HAD NETWORKS"?  I don't think so.

> Of course, I fully agree that copying software has become easier since
> those days.  Certainly the decade from 30 years ago to 20 years ago made
> a very large difference.  But for people involved in more serious
> programming, they would have archives of the tools they used - most
> likely on tape.  And if those tools were needed later, at some time they
> get transferred to hard disk.  So if someone says they have 30 years old
> software on tap, then I believe them unless I have overwhelming reason
> not to.
> 

Those archives would be on floppy disks or tapes.  And exactly who has
them on tape now?

Someone might have building plans for a pyramid, written in ancient
Egyptian heiroglyphics on parchment, also.  There would be a much better
chance of that surviving than something on diskette or tape.

>> And where's your comment about the "diskette straw man" you referred to
>> above?  Maybe because you have no idea?
>>
> 
> I have no idea which "diskette straw man" argument you are referring to
> here - there have been too many silly points in this thread to keep up
> with them all.
> 

You're the one who made the claim.

-- 
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==================

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#98668

FromRobert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com>
Date2016-12-10 01:19 -0600
Message-ID<mg9n4cd99trcong29sugqmnrl35cqu8ijk@4ax.com>
In reply to#98521
On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 10:16:47 -0500, Jerry Stuckle
<jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:

>On 12/9/2016 5:39 AM, David Brown wrote:
>> On 09/12/16 04:05, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>
>>> You show nothing.  Just another claim that's as full of BS as you are.
>>> It's not what the discussion was about.  Obviously you have serious
>>> comprehension problems.  But you've already shown that.
>>>
>>> I suspect that didn't even come from the compiler you claim.  You don't
>>> still have the compiler (even if you had the diskettes, they wouldn't be
>>> readable after 21 years).
>>>
>>> But you'll argue with anything and everything, won't you, Ben?  Even
>>> from a position of ignorance.
>>>
>> 
>> Do you really think Ben has gone to such effort to make fake compiler
>> outputs just to fool /you/?  You are implying quite an extraordinary
>> degree of dishonest and malice in Ben.  He clearly posted the results
>> from a /real/ compiler of the relevant age, showing the relevant point.
>>  I am no lawyer, but I would wonder if that crosses the line between
>> Usenet banter and libel.  Of course, since no one takes you seriously I
>> don't think your comments will harm his solid reputation here.
>>
>
>Actually, I think he's quite capable of it.  Just using a newer compiler
>and calling it an old one, for instance.
>
>Even if he could still read diskettes (when was the last time you had a
>computer with a diskette drive), diskettes 31 years old would not be
>readable.  Additionally, it would not run on any current OS - none of
>them support DOS any more.  There are some emulators - but only for the
>documented interface.  Microsoft was well-known for using undocumented
>calls to the OS's, even back then.  None of the emulators, AFAIK,
>support those undocumented calls.
>
>He made a claim with no support as to where he got the compiler or how
>he ran it.


While I don't have a copy of MSC 3.1, I do have a copy on a server
drive of MSC 5.1, circa 1988.  And yes, it will run on any 32-bit x86
Windows machine, including Win10, which still includes all the NTVDM
stuff.  You're out of luck, except with an emulator, with any 64-bit
Windows machine (where all the 16 bit support, both real and protected
mode) has gone away.

Anyway, I happened to run this on a Win8 (32-bit) machine (it was
handy, the Win10/32 machine not), and MSC 5.1 output the following for
Ben's sample code:


>int f(a) int a; { return a + 1; }
>
>int g() { return f(1.0); }


::G:\wessel>f:cl /Fa -c -Ox test200.c
::Microsoft (R) C Optimizing Compiler Version 5.10
::Copyright (c) Microsoft Corp 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988. All rights reserved.
::
::test200.c
::
::G:\wessel>notepad test200.asm


_TEXT      SEGMENT
	ASSUME	CS: _TEXT
	PUBLIC	_g
_g	PROC NEAR
	push	bp
	mov	bp,sp
	sub	sp,2
	fld	QWORD PTR $T20000
	sub	sp,8
	mov	bx,sp
	fstp	QWORD PTR [bx]
	fwait	
	call	_f
	mov	WORD PTR [bp-2],ax
	mov	sp,bp
	pop	bp
	ret	
	nop	

_g	ENDP
_TEXT	ENDS


Not exactly the same generated code, but certainly similar, and it
does try to pass a float to f().


For grins, I tried this with a version 3.21 of Lattice C (circa 1987,
the timestamp on the main compiler executable is 08/12/1987), which is
the oldest C compiler I believe I have easy access to, and got (using
the Lattice disassembler):


::G:\wessel>lc test200.c
::Lattice MS-DOS C Compiler, Version 3.21
::Copyright 1987 Lattice, Inc.
::
::Compiling TEST200.C
::Module size P=002D D=0008 U=0000
::
::Total files: 1, Compiled OK: 1
::
::
::G:\wessel>omd test200.obj>j1
::
::G:\wessel>notepad j1


Lattice Object Module Disassembler V3.20
Copyright (C) 1984 Lattice, Inc.


Intel Object File Loader V1.00
80186 Instruction Set

EXTERNAL DEFINITIONS

F 0000-00    G 000F-00

SECTION 00 "PROG" 002D BYTES
0000 B8FEFF                     MOV       AX,FFFE
0003 E8 0000-XX.1               CALL      CXSTKP
0006 8B4606                     MOV       AX,[BP+06]
0009 40                         INC       AX
000A 83C402                     ADD       SP,02
000D 5D                         POP       BP
000E C3                         RET
000F B8FEFF                     MOV       AX,FFFE
0012 E8 0000-XX.1               CALL      CXSTKP
0015 BE 0000-01                 MOV       SI,01.0000
0018 FF7406                     PUSH      [SI+06]
001B FF7404                     PUSH      [SI+04]
001E FF7402                     PUSH      [SI+02]
0021 FF34                       PUSH      [SI]
0023 E8DAFF                     CALL      0000
0026 8BE5                       MOV       SP,BP
0028 83C402                     ADD       SP,02
002B 5D                         POP       BP
002C C3                         RET

SECTION 01 "DATA" 0008 BYTES
0000 00 00 00 00 00 00 F0 3F ......p?

SECTION 02 "UDATA" 0000 BYTES


Which also has g() (starts at 0x000f) passing a 64-bit float to f(),
although it does it on the integer stack with the four PUSH's starting
at 0x0018.

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#98614

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2016-12-09 21:52 +0000
Message-ID<8760ms7osy.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#98441
Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:

> On 12/8/2016 4:54 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:
>> 
>>> On 12/7/2016 8:44 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:
>> <snip>
>>>>> But then you're an expert on things you never used, aren't you?  Even
>>>>> when they are before you were born.
>>>>
>>>> You could alwas post some evidence for your claims, you know.  Then you
>>>> would not have to rely on personal remarks.
>>>
>>> Do you have any compilers from 30 years ago and an OS on which they
>>> run?  I'm not talking about a recent compiler which supports K&R.  I'm
>>> talking about something like IBM or Microsoft compiler for DOS from
>>> that timeframe.
>> 
>> Yes I do.  "Microsoft" is a little vague but let's take Microsoft C
>> version 3.0 which is dated 1985 -- slap bang in the middle of the decade
>> you are talking about.
>> 
>> Here is the listing for the code generated for the function g from this
>> source:
>> 
>> int f(a) int a; { return a + 1; }
>> 
>> int g() { return f(1.0); }
>> 
>> CONST      SEGMENT
>> $T20001		DQ	003ff00000H    ;	1.000000000000000
>> CONST      ENDS
>> _TEXT      SEGMENT
>> 	PUBLIC	_g
>> _g	PROC NEAR
>> 	*** 000010	55 			push	bp
>> 	*** 000011	8b ec 			mov	bp,sp
>> 	*** 000013	33 c0 			xor	ax,ax
>> 	*** 000015	e8 00 00 		call	__chkstk
>> 	*** 000018	8d 1e 00 00 		lea	bx,WORD PTR $T20001
>> 	*** 00001c	e8 00 00 		call	__fldd
>> 	*** 00001f	83 ec 08 		sub	sp,8
>> 	*** 000022	8b dc 			mov	bx,sp
>> 	*** 000024	e8 00 00 		call	__fstdp
>> 	*** 000027	e8 00 00 		call	_f
>> 	*** 00002a	8b e5 			mov	sp,bp
>> 	*** 00002c	5d 			pop	bp
>> 	*** 00002d	c3 			ret	
>> _g	ENDP
>> 
>> Notice how it passes an 8 byte float to f despite the fact that the call
>> is preceded by a definition of f.
>> 
>> And for good measure, here is the code generated by this C source where
>> only a declaration is in scope at the point of the call:
>> 
>> int f();
>> 
>> int g() { return f(1.0); }
>> 
>> int f(a) int a; { return a + 1; }
>> 
>> CONST      SEGMENT
>> $T20001		DQ	003ff00000H    ;	1.000000000000000
>> CONST      ENDS
>> _TEXT      SEGMENT
>> 	PUBLIC	_g
>> _g	PROC NEAR
>> 	*** 000000	55 			push	bp
>> 	*** 000001	8b ec 			mov	bp,sp
>> 	*** 000003	33 c0 			xor	ax,ax
>> 	*** 000005	e8 00 00 		call	__chkstk
>> 	*** 000008	8d 1e 00 00 		lea	bx,WORD PTR $T20001
>> 	*** 00000c	e8 00 00 		call	__fldd
>> 	*** 00000f	83 ec 08 		sub	sp,8
>> 	*** 000012	8b dc 			mov	bx,sp
>> 	*** 000014	e8 00 00 		call	__fstdp
>> 	*** 000017	e8 00 00 		call	_f
>> 	*** 00001a	8b e5 			mov	sp,bp
>> 	*** 00001c	5d 			pop	bp
>> 	*** 00001d	c3 			ret	
>> _g	ENDP
>> 
>> Apart from the offsets it's the same code.
>> 
>
> You show nothing.  Just another claim that's as full of BS as you are.
> It's not what the discussion was about.

You won't say which compilers did what you claim, but you've allowed
hints to emerge -- 1985, Microsoft, commercial not shareware and so on.

Here is Microsoft's 1985 commercial C compiler /not/ doing exactly what
you claimed "every one of them" did.

So, what to do...

> Obviously you have serious
> comprehension problems.  But you've already shown that.
>
> I suspect that didn't even come from the compiler you claim.  You don't
> still have the compiler (even if you had the diskettes, they wouldn't be
> readable after 21 years).

... accuse me of fabricating evidence.  Now, I consider it a badge of
honour to be called a pig by you, but this is shocking behaviour from
you.  You should be ashamed.

On a lighter note, I find it interesting that you don't think old
software is being preserved.  It is.  How unfortunate for you.

<snip>
-- 
Ben.

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#98649

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2016-12-09 23:02 -0500
Message-ID<o2fumf$avp$1@jstuckle.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#98614
On 12/9/2016 4:52 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:
> 
>> On 12/8/2016 4:54 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 12/7/2016 8:44 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:
>>> <snip>
>>>>>> But then you're an expert on things you never used, aren't you?  Even
>>>>>> when they are before you were born.
>>>>>
>>>>> You could alwas post some evidence for your claims, you know.  Then you
>>>>> would not have to rely on personal remarks.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have any compilers from 30 years ago and an OS on which they
>>>> run?  I'm not talking about a recent compiler which supports K&R.  I'm
>>>> talking about something like IBM or Microsoft compiler for DOS from
>>>> that timeframe.
>>>
>>> Yes I do.  "Microsoft" is a little vague but let's take Microsoft C
>>> version 3.0 which is dated 1985 -- slap bang in the middle of the decade
>>> you are talking about.
>>>
>>> Here is the listing for the code generated for the function g from this
>>> source:
>>>
>>> int f(a) int a; { return a + 1; }
>>>
>>> int g() { return f(1.0); }
>>>
>>> CONST      SEGMENT
>>> $T20001		DQ	003ff00000H    ;	1.000000000000000
>>> CONST      ENDS
>>> _TEXT      SEGMENT
>>> 	PUBLIC	_g
>>> _g	PROC NEAR
>>> 	*** 000010	55 			push	bp
>>> 	*** 000011	8b ec 			mov	bp,sp
>>> 	*** 000013	33 c0 			xor	ax,ax
>>> 	*** 000015	e8 00 00 		call	__chkstk
>>> 	*** 000018	8d 1e 00 00 		lea	bx,WORD PTR $T20001
>>> 	*** 00001c	e8 00 00 		call	__fldd
>>> 	*** 00001f	83 ec 08 		sub	sp,8
>>> 	*** 000022	8b dc 			mov	bx,sp
>>> 	*** 000024	e8 00 00 		call	__fstdp
>>> 	*** 000027	e8 00 00 		call	_f
>>> 	*** 00002a	8b e5 			mov	sp,bp
>>> 	*** 00002c	5d 			pop	bp
>>> 	*** 00002d	c3 			ret	
>>> _g	ENDP
>>>
>>> Notice how it passes an 8 byte float to f despite the fact that the call
>>> is preceded by a definition of f.
>>>
>>> And for good measure, here is the code generated by this C source where
>>> only a declaration is in scope at the point of the call:
>>>
>>> int f();
>>>
>>> int g() { return f(1.0); }
>>>
>>> int f(a) int a; { return a + 1; }
>>>
>>> CONST      SEGMENT
>>> $T20001		DQ	003ff00000H    ;	1.000000000000000
>>> CONST      ENDS
>>> _TEXT      SEGMENT
>>> 	PUBLIC	_g
>>> _g	PROC NEAR
>>> 	*** 000000	55 			push	bp
>>> 	*** 000001	8b ec 			mov	bp,sp
>>> 	*** 000003	33 c0 			xor	ax,ax
>>> 	*** 000005	e8 00 00 		call	__chkstk
>>> 	*** 000008	8d 1e 00 00 		lea	bx,WORD PTR $T20001
>>> 	*** 00000c	e8 00 00 		call	__fldd
>>> 	*** 00000f	83 ec 08 		sub	sp,8
>>> 	*** 000012	8b dc 			mov	bx,sp
>>> 	*** 000014	e8 00 00 		call	__fstdp
>>> 	*** 000017	e8 00 00 		call	_f
>>> 	*** 00001a	8b e5 			mov	sp,bp
>>> 	*** 00001c	5d 			pop	bp
>>> 	*** 00001d	c3 			ret	
>>> _g	ENDP
>>>
>>> Apart from the offsets it's the same code.
>>>
>>
>> You show nothing.  Just another claim that's as full of BS as you are.
>> It's not what the discussion was about.
> 
> You won't say which compilers did what you claim, but you've allowed
> hints to emerge -- 1985, Microsoft, commercial not shareware and so on.
>

I did say which compilers.  But your reading comprehension problem
doesn't allow you to understand it.

> Here is Microsoft's 1985 commercial C compiler /not/ doing exactly what
> you claimed "every one of them" did.
> 
> So, what to do...
> 

And that is NOT at all what I claimed it to do.

>> Obviously you have serious
>> comprehension problems.  But you've already shown that.
>>
>> I suspect that didn't even come from the compiler you claim.  You don't
>> still have the compiler (even if you had the diskettes, they wouldn't be
>> readable after 21 years).
> 
> ... accuse me of fabricating evidence.  Now, I consider it a badge of
> honour to be called a pig by you, but this is shocking behaviour from
> you.  You should be ashamed.
> 

You show no reason to believe it is real, and I have every reason to
believe it isn't.

But it doesn't matter - your "test" doesn't show what I was discussing.
But once again you show reading comprehension problems.

> On a lighter note, I find it interesting that you don't think old
> software is being preserved.  It is.  How unfortunate for you.
> 
> <snip>
> 

OK, tell me where I can get a copy of Microsoft C 3.0 that works on my
current Windows system.  If it has been preserved like you say, that
should be easy.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#98688

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2016-12-10 12:59 +0000
Message-ID<8737hv52ym.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#98649
Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:

> On 12/9/2016 4:52 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
<snip>
>> Here is Microsoft's 1985 commercial C compiler /not/ doing exactly what
>> you claimed "every one of them" did.
>> 
>> So, what to do...
>
> And that is NOT at all what I claimed it to do.

Unfortunately for you, you keep walking saying too much.  I posted an
actual example:

f(a)
double a
{ ... }

g() { f(42); } /* A Stuckle compiler converts this to 42.0 */

and you replied

  "That is correct.  And the code generated would *properly* convert the
  value."

so we have an incontrovertibly example of what you say should happen.
Here is the mixed source/assembler listing that the 1985 MS C compiler
helpfully provides for that code (with ... replaced with something
valid):

;	Static Name Aliases
;
	TITLE   js

_TEXT	SEGMENT  BYTE PUBLIC 'CODE'
_TEXT	ENDS
CONST	SEGMENT  WORD PUBLIC 'CONST'
CONST	ENDS
_BSS	SEGMENT  WORD PUBLIC 'BSS'
_BSS	ENDS
_DATA	SEGMENT  WORD PUBLIC 'DATA'
_DATA	ENDS
DGROUP	GROUP	CONST,	_BSS,	_DATA
	ASSUME  CS: _TEXT, DS: DGROUP, SS: DGROUP, ES: DGROUP
PUBLIC  _f
PUBLIC  _g
_DATA	SEGMENT
EXTRN	__chkstk:NEAR
_DATA	ENDS
_TEXT      SEGMENT
;	a=4
;|*** f(a)
;|*** double a;
; Line 2
	PUBLIC	_f
_f	PROC NEAR
	*** 000000	55 			push	bp
	*** 000001	8b ec 			mov	bp,sp
	*** 000003	33 c0 			xor	ax,ax
	*** 000005	e8 00 00 		call	__chkstk
;|*** { return 1; }
; Line 3
	*** 000008	b8 01 00 		mov	ax,1
	*** 00000b	8b e5 			mov	sp,bp
	*** 00000d	5d 			pop	bp
	*** 00000e	c3 			ret	
_f	ENDP

;|*** 
;|*** g() { f(42); } /* A Stuckle compiler converts this to 42.0 */
; Line 5
	PUBLIC	_g
_g	PROC NEAR
	*** 00000f	55 			push	bp
	*** 000010	8b ec 			mov	bp,sp
	*** 000012	33 c0 			xor	ax,ax
	*** 000014	e8 00 00 		call	__chkstk
	*** 000017	b8 2a 00 		mov	ax,42
	*** 00001a	50 			push	ax
	*** 00001b	e8 00 00 		call	_f
	*** 00001e	8b e5 			mov	sp,bp
	*** 000020	5d 			pop	bp
	*** 000021	c3 			ret	
_g	ENDP

_TEXT	ENDS
END

In all the noise, the only significant bit is

	mov	ax,42
	push	ax
	call	_f

<snip>
> But it doesn't matter - your "test" doesn't show what I was discussing.
> But once again you show reading comprehension problems.

You said that "the code generated would *properly* convert the value" in
this example.  It does not.  Do you want to pick yet another example?

<snip>
> OK, tell me where I can get a copy of Microsoft C 3.0 that works on my
> current Windows system.  If it has been preserved like you say, that
> should be easy.

Sure:

https://winworldpc.com/download/4725D7BC-18DA-11E4-99E5-7054D21A8599

-- 
Ben.

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