Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.lang.c > #140381 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2019-01-29 10:50 -0800 |
| Last post | 2019-02-19 18:19 -0600 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 380 — 25 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.c
"...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 10:50 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-01-29 20:30 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 14:47 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-29 16:36 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 18:48 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-01-30 05:48 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-30 14:06 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-01-30 15:07 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-01-30 06:42 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-01-30 17:12 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-01-30 14:42 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-30 11:19 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-29 11:57 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 14:32 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-29 16:24 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-29 12:13 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-01-29 12:20 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 15:08 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-01-29 21:38 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 19:01 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-01-30 11:27 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-01-30 04:18 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-30 11:00 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 14:18 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-30 14:34 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-01-30 23:12 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-31 15:44 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-30 19:00 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-01-31 14:32 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-31 09:44 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-01-31 23:15 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-30 15:11 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 14:12 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-01-29 22:46 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 14:57 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-29 16:27 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2019-01-29 16:48 -0700
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 16:13 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2019-01-30 16:57 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-01-30 18:04 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-01-30 17:35 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-01-30 19:23 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2019-01-31 03:25 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-01-31 08:53 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-01-31 14:35 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 12:52 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2019-01-31 18:19 +0300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-31 09:55 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-01-31 19:53 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2019-02-01 13:24 +0300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-01 12:15 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2019-02-04 12:08 +0300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-04 11:14 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 03:40 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2019-02-04 15:24 +0300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-04 12:03 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-04 22:34 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ike Naar <ike@sdf.lonestar.org> - 2019-02-04 22:00 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-04 21:32 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-04 12:32 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-04 22:06 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-04 23:30 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-05 13:27 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-05 14:36 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-05 16:50 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-05 18:44 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-06 08:23 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-05 12:43 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-06 09:51 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-05 13:14 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 01:42 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-06 22:44 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 02:36 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2019-02-06 17:39 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-06 10:39 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-07 07:58 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 22:45 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-26 08:44 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-26 08:03 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-26 15:29 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-07 07:59 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 12:07 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 03:42 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 13:36 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 04:44 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-06 05:40 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 05:50 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-06 06:03 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 06:22 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 15:54 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-07 10:40 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 05:56 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 16:04 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-07 00:26 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-07 09:39 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-07 10:57 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-07 19:55 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-07 23:27 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-07 16:35 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-08 02:02 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 16:10 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-26 02:37 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 14:06 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-07 12:01 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-07 21:55 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-07 23:17 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-07 16:36 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-08 02:04 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-08 01:39 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-08 11:42 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-02-08 03:07 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-02-08 03:10 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-08 13:43 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-08 06:47 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-08 17:56 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-08 10:27 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-10 05:01 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-10 16:51 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-10 09:14 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-11 02:34 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-11 09:54 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-11 12:35 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-11 14:03 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-11 14:53 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 16:36 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-26 02:57 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 22:24 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-26 14:25 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-06 08:50 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-11 01:48 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-11 13:53 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-02-11 08:01 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-11 17:01 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-11 11:30 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-12 01:40 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-12 01:51 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-12 12:13 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-12 03:39 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-12 16:27 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-12 07:57 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 09:50 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-02-12 21:13 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2019-02-12 21:52 -0700
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 01:30 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 11:52 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 03:29 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 13:26 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-13 11:41 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-13 05:26 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 05:32 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 14:34 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-12 16:09 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-12 08:42 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-13 04:40 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 02:05 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-13 02:55 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 03:32 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-02-13 03:36 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 13:32 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 06:30 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 16:10 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 07:21 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 16:38 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-13 11:57 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-13 21:27 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-14 00:55 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-14 02:41 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-14 03:14 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-14 15:12 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-14 07:28 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-15 01:06 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-24 20:47 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-24 13:43 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-02-25 02:26 -0800
Wow... (Was: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached") gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-02-25 12:12 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-13 15:46 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 08:15 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 18:07 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-11 13:43 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-10 12:43 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-10 13:14 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-10 13:59 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-02-10 17:50 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 15:17 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2019-02-25 17:38 -0700
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 21:40 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-26 01:37 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2019-02-11 20:24 -0700
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-07 10:41 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 14:47 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-02-06 07:51 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-06 05:12 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 05:22 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-06 05:51 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-07 10:33 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-05 21:24 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 00:24 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-06 14:13 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 08:56 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-05 23:59 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-06 00:15 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 08:25 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-06 11:51 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 14:41 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-06 14:17 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 06:37 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 16:10 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-04 14:48 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-04 22:09 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-05 10:19 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-04 22:05 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-12 12:10 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-13 08:47 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-12 12:41 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-12 20:55 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-13 10:07 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-12 21:53 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-13 11:01 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-16 15:09 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-16 16:33 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-16 16:51 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-16 16:52 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-16 18:20 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-16 20:00 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-17 08:54 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-16 23:23 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-17 12:31 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-17 00:34 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-17 14:26 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-17 01:45 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-17 20:12 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-17 11:23 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-02-12 23:00 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-12 14:12 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-12 22:44 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-12 23:32 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-13 12:51 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-13 01:13 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-14 07:39 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-13 19:54 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-14 16:30 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 13:17 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 15:19 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 14:45 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 16:10 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 16:38 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 20:24 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-14 07:17 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 20:28 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-14 12:05 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-15 01:48 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-02-14 06:29 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-14 14:19 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-02-15 01:33 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2019-02-18 19:33 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-18 18:53 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-18 19:05 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-18 20:11 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-18 19:25 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-18 21:39 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-14 19:22 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-02-15 02:14 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 15:53 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-15 09:27 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 10:02 +0100
Just an end-user... (Was: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is) reached" gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-02-13 09:13 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-13 11:32 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 13:37 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-13 14:21 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 16:32 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-13 15:18 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 16:36 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-13 23:09 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 01:51 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-14 02:35 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 10:00 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 12:26 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 15:22 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 15:02 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 16:23 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 17:03 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 20:41 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 21:23 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-15 10:38 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 22:53 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-02-14 08:19 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 20:45 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-02-15 02:32 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-15 11:51 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-14 16:47 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 17:18 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-14 17:48 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 19:26 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-02-14 20:21 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-14 21:20 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 22:24 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-15 00:18 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-15 01:29 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-15 08:14 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-15 07:03 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-15 04:42 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-02-15 05:26 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-15 16:37 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 14:24 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-15 14:07 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-15 07:02 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-15 17:06 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-15 08:10 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 21:45 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-26 14:16 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-26 15:04 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-26 15:26 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-26 12:06 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-26 21:05 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-26 13:55 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-02-27 06:41 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-27 12:33 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-02-27 08:18 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-27 14:02 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-26 21:18 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-27 02:41 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2019-02-26 19:13 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-26 22:29 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-27 09:33 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-27 07:41 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-27 14:15 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-27 07:02 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-27 17:18 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-28 15:05 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-07 11:24 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-03-21 11:13 +0000
Re: Readability (was: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached") Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-21 23:25 -0700
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-24 03:01 -0700
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 16:03 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-26 17:38 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-04 21:31 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2019-02-01 02:38 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-01 01:57 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2019-02-01 13:26 +0300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-01 07:18 -0500
The look of C (Was: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is) reached" gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-02-01 14:26 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-01 14:32 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-01 06:54 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-01 16:42 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-01 09:56 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-01 18:09 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-01 10:31 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-01 10:58 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-01 12:47 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-02 16:18 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-01 21:52 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-01 23:52 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-02 01:00 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-01 16:41 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-02 02:00 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-01 15:10 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-02-01 14:36 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-01 07:05 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 22:30 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-02-26 12:37 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-06 09:09 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-26 05:50 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-06 09:06 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-06 10:48 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-23 10:27 -0700
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-25 12:14 -0700
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-01 09:43 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2019-01-31 03:46 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-01-30 22:49 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-30 20:08 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-02-10 09:11 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2019-02-19 10:23 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-19 22:55 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-19 15:48 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-20 00:10 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-19 16:42 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-20 13:05 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-20 10:30 -0600
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-19 16:05 -0600
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-19 18:19 -0600
Page 3 of 19 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 … 19 Next page →
| From | Bart <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-30 17:35 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1gl4E.150130$XD2.91523@fx10.am4> |
| In reply to | #140413 |
On 30/01/2019 17:20, Stefan Ram wrote:
> nobody@example.org (Scott) writes:
>> First, we have Structured Programming, and code like this is why.
>
> This code is part of a question about the semantics of C.
> It is not intended to be a solution for some programming task
> and to exhibit how to do this in good style.
>
>> Second - and I'm probably in the vast minority here - I think that
>> mixing declarations with code is sloppy and lazy,
>
> Declarations /are/ code. In C we can write:
>
> int const status_code = printf( "Hello, world!\n" );
This declares a storage location named 'status_code', to hold a value of
type 'int', and to be readonly.
So far that's not code, just stuff the compiler needs to know.
(Allocating space, if taken care of an runtime, is not usually done on a
per-variable basis.)
On the other hand, calling printf and assigning its return value to
'status_code' /is/ code (and even then it could be eliminated).
> , but of course, a simple
>
> int const OK_code = 0;
Outside of a function, or with 'static' in front, then no code (as in,
machine instructions stored in a .text segment, not data) is generated.
And for a value of 0, probably not even data.
> also would be code.
>
> It's best to define names where they can be initialized.
Development code is volatile, so you don't want to fix the point of
first use of a variable as that is likely to need to move:
int i=0;
{
int i=42;
might become:
int i=0;
{
printf("%d\n",i);
int i=42;
with the intent being to print the local i not the shadowed one. But
this error can't be detected.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-30 19:23 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <q2sq30$3u8$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #140413 |
On 30/01/2019 17:57, Scott wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 10:50:31 -0800, Andrey Tarasevich
> <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> {
>> int *p = NULL;
>>
>> again:
>> if (p != NULL)
>> printf("%d\n", *p); // <-- 1
>>
>> int i; // <-- 2
>>
>> if (p == NULL)
>> {
>> i = 42; // <-- 3
>> p = &i;
>> goto again;
>> }
>>
>> // printf("%d\n", i); // <-- 4
>> }
>
> Others have weighed in with thoughful observations, but I would
> briefly opine twice on this code snippet.
>
> First, we have Structured Programming, and code like this is why.
Yes. There are situations where you can reasonably argue that "goto" is
the best solution - this is not one of them. To my mind, it doesn't
really matter what the rules of C are for such code - it should never be
written.
>
> Second - and I'm probably in the vast minority here - I think that
> mixing declarations with code is sloppy and lazy, and leads to puzzles
> just like this. Move i's declaration up next to p's, your puzzle goes
> away.
>
No, mixing declarations and code is not sloppy or lazy, not does it lead
to puzzles. It leads to clearer and simpler code, with less chance of
errors. And I think - and certainly hope - that you are in the
minority, not the majority. C99 improved on C90 in many ways, with more
flexible mix of code and declarations being one of them.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | nobody@example.org (Scott) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-31 03:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <5c5266e2.273894375@news.xmission.com> |
| In reply to | #140417 |
On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 19:23:27 +0100, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: >> Second - and I'm probably in the vast minority here - I think that >> mixing declarations with code is sloppy and lazy, and leads to puzzles >> just like this. Move i's declaration up next to p's, your puzzle goes >> away. > >No, mixing declarations and code is not sloppy or lazy, not does it lead >to puzzles. It leads to clearer and simpler code, with less chance of >errors. We can disagree. That style might be appropriate elsewhere, but I feel it's doesn't fit well with C. That's an opinion. As for puzzles? This discussion thread is specificaly about a particular semantic bug that could not exist without mixed declarations. That's a fact. >And I think - and certainly hope - that you are in the minority, not the majority. I thought I said that.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-31 08:53 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <q2u9ig$t8j$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #140427 |
On 31/01/2019 04:25, Scott wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 19:23:27 +0100, David Brown > <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: > >>> Second - and I'm probably in the vast minority here - I think that >>> mixing declarations with code is sloppy and lazy, and leads to puzzles >>> just like this. Move i's declaration up next to p's, your puzzle goes >>> away. >> >> No, mixing declarations and code is not sloppy or lazy, not does it lead >> to puzzles. It leads to clearer and simpler code, with less chance of >> errors. > > We can disagree. That style might be appropriate elsewhere, but I feel > it's doesn't fit well with C. That's an opinion. It may be with discussing on another thread. Perhaps you can be persuaded to join the 21st century! But for now, we can leave it as "opinion". > > As for puzzles? This discussion thread is specificaly about a > particular semantic bug that could not exist without mixed > declarations. That's a fact. True. It could also not have existed in code that anyone would consider well written - it is an artificial problem with code that is legal in C, but not something that would be written in practice. > >> And I think - and certainly hope - that you are in the minority, not the majority. > > I thought I said that. > I thought you said the opposite - but I misread you. Sorry!
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-31 14:35 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <UID4E.246858$0z4.10552@fx03.iad> |
| In reply to | #140431 |
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes: >On 31/01/2019 04:25, Scott wrote: >> On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 19:23:27 +0100, David Brown >> <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: >> >>>> Second - and I'm probably in the vast minority here - I think that >>>> mixing declarations with code is sloppy and lazy, and leads to puzzles >>>> just like this. Move i's declaration up next to p's, your puzzle goes >>>> away. >>> >>> No, mixing declarations and code is not sloppy or lazy, not does it lead >>> to puzzles. It leads to clearer and simpler code, with less chance of >>> errors. >> >> We can disagree. That style might be appropriate elsewhere, but I feel >> it's doesn't fit well with C. That's an opinion. > >It may be with discussing on another thread. Perhaps you can be >persuaded to join the 21st century! But for now, we can leave it as >"opinion". Of course, both sides of the argument are 'opinions'. I tend to favor declarations at the beginning of a block, but I also use ad-hoc declarations when it seems the right thing to do.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-25 12:52 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <86k1hnegkh.fsf@mailhub.linuxsc.com> |
| In reply to | #140434 |
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes: > David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes: > >> On 31/01/2019 04:25, Scott wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 19:23:27 +0100, David Brown >>> <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: >>> >>>>> Second - and I'm probably in the vast minority here - I think that >>>>> mixing declarations with code is sloppy and lazy, and leads to puzzles >>>>> just like this. Move i's declaration up next to p's, your puzzle goes >>>>> away. >>>> >>>> No, mixing declarations and code is not sloppy or lazy, not does it lead >>>> to puzzles. It leads to clearer and simpler code, with less chance of >>>> errors. >>> >>> We can disagree. That style might be appropriate elsewhere, but I feel >>> it's doesn't fit well with C. That's an opinion. >> >> It may be with discussing on another thread. Perhaps you can be >> persuaded to join the 21st century! But for now, we can leave it as >> "opinion". > > Of course, both sides of the argument are 'opinions'. I tend to > favor declarations at the beginning of a block, but I also use > ad-hoc declarations when it seems the right thing to do. This pretty much matches my view on the subject.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-31 18:19 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <20190131181921.1f2e8bbbebbad6e40a481fa9@g{oogle}mail.com> |
| In reply to | #140427 |
Scott to David Brown: >>No, mixing declarations and code is not sloppy or lazy, >>not does it lead to puzzles. It leads to clearer and >>simpler code, with less chance of errors. > >We can disagree. That style might be appropriate elsewhere, >but I feel it's doesn't fit well with C. That's an opinion. I am with Scott on this point: http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=154894777900 [my little post to CLC on the subject] -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ http://preview.tinyurl.com/qcy6mjc [archived]
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-31 09:55 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <q2vcq9$gem$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #140417 |
On 1/30/2019 10:23 AM, David Brown wrote: > > No, mixing declarations and code is not sloppy or lazy, not does it lead > to puzzles. It leads to clearer and simpler code, with less chance of > errors. Exactly. The ability to interleave declarations and statements gives one the opportunity to supply a meaningful initializer at the point of declaration. This alone immediately closes the debate: declarations should be made locally, as close to the point of the actual usage as possible. Even before C99 one'd typically use every opportunity to defeat that terrible "declarations only at the beginning of the block" rule and resort to "poor-man's" version of mixing declarations and code by introducing redundant blocks in the middle of statement flow: just to bring the declaration closer to the point of actual usage. C99 thankfully provided one with an immeasurably more natural feature for achieving that objective. -- Best regards, Andrey Tarasevich
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Bart <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-31 19:53 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <JmI4E.228608$IF1.51786@fx03.am4> |
| In reply to | #140438 |
On 31/01/2019 17:55, Andrey Tarasevich wrote: > On 1/30/2019 10:23 AM, David Brown wrote: >> >> No, mixing declarations and code is not sloppy or lazy, not does it >> lead to puzzles. It leads to clearer and simpler code, with less >> chance of errors. > > Exactly. > > The ability to interleave declarations and statements gives one the > opportunity to supply a meaningful initializer at the point of > declaration. This alone immediately closes the debate: declarations > should be made locally, as close to the point of the actual usage as > possible. > > Even before C99 one'd typically use every opportunity to defeat that > terrible "declarations only at the beginning of the block" rule and > resort to "poor-man's" version of mixing declarations and code by > introducing redundant blocks in the middle of statement flow: just to > bring the declaration closer to the point of actual usage. C99 > thankfully provided one with an immeasurably more natural feature for > achieving that objective. Problems with this (some already discussed in the past): (1) You declare a variable at the place you first assign to it. But then find that you need to access it in an outer scope. (2) The code that first assigns to a variable is conditional, so there are two different assignments. You can't have two declarations of the same variable. (3) You declare a variable in-place. But then that bit of code ends up being wrapped in a nested block. Now you can't access it from further on in the code. Worse, if that variable was shadowing an outer one, the later access now accesses the wrong variable. (4) Your code uses variables 'float x,y,z' which are clearly related. But applying the rule to declare each one where it is first assigned to, there might now be three different 'float x' (or y or z) declarations scattered through the code, and the relationship is lost. (And was it x and y? No, you've just spotted a float z, so /maybe/ it was x and y and z, but who knows?) (5) You're reading someone's code (without benefit of one of David Brown's tools that does away with every problem with the C language) and come across a variable 'z'; what type is it? It's a very busy function, but if the style is to declare things just anywhere, then you /have/ to scan every line backwards until you encounter it. You can't just look at the top of the function. Even if you see it there, you can't be sure there isn't a closer declaration. If you're in the mood I've got lots more. Fortunately I rarely now how to read other people's code where they thought this style was a good idea.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-01 13:24 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <20190201132441.0b099e5f38fdb72371bc44f0@g{oogle}mail.com> |
| In reply to | #140440 |
Bart to Andrey Tarasevich: >>Even before C99 one'd typically use every opportunity to >>defeat that terrible "declarations only at the beginning >>of the block" rule and resort to "poor-man's" version of >>mixing declarations and code by introducing redundant >>blocks in the middle of statement flow: just to bring the >>declaration closer to the point of actual usage. C99 >>thankfully provided one with an immeasurably more natural >>feature for achieving that objective. > >Problems with this (some already discussed in the past): >[...] >If you're in the mood I've got lots more. I should like to read your other points. -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ http://preview.tinyurl.com/qcy6mjc [archived]
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Bart <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-01 12:15 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <XLW4E.338937$dp2.170071@fx18.am4> |
| In reply to | #140444 |
On 01/02/2019 10:24, Anton Shepelev wrote: > Bart to Andrey Tarasevich: > >>> Even before C99 one'd typically use every opportunity to >>> defeat that terrible "declarations only at the beginning >>> of the block" rule and resort to "poor-man's" version of >>> mixing declarations and code by introducing redundant >>> blocks in the middle of statement flow: just to bring the >>> declaration closer to the point of actual usage. C99 >>> thankfully provided one with an immeasurably more natural >>> feature for achieving that objective. >> >> Problems with this (some already discussed in the past): >> [...] >> If you're in the mood I've got lots more. > > I should like to read your other points. Actually when I wrote that remark, I was only up to (3) but then added a couple more! There probably isn't that much more to say apart from observations: (6) Outside of a function, most declarations aren't made at the point of first use. If a typedef T if first used by a function half-way through a module, then you tend not to see typedefs interspersed with function definitions. They are usually collected together at the top. Same with module-scope functions. (7) The parameter declarations in a function, necessarily have go at the top. Although, if the style is to have declarations anywhere (I mean in any nested block not necessarily halfway along a block) you may still need to scan all the code to see if a parameter name has been reused. (With all declarations at the top of a function, not only would that be a quicker check, but it would not be necessary as the scope is the same as the parameter scope; you can't reuse a parameter name) (8) I don't personally like the style because it spoils the 'lines' of the code, or the algorithm, having declarations cluttering it up. (My own two languages, I frequently paste code between them, and it's the same syntax. But one needs static type declarations like C, the other once doesn't. Then having mixed declarations is a nuisance. (9) With the earlier float x,y,z example where the declarations are all mixed up, the deciding to change them to double x,y,z is harder. First you have to herd them all up, them you have to know that you've got them all (was it float w,x,y,z?). (10) It is (for me at least) a great help to have a convenient index of all the local variables used in a function, in a place I can quickly locate. (Note I don't use block scopes.) It also makes it a good place to comment the use of some of them. (The analogy I've used is having a cast of characters at the start of play, instead of having to construct such a list by having to painstakingly schlepp through the whole text.) (11) With all declarations at the top a function (this is a style that doesn't use block scopes), you can be sure that no variable names are reused, causing problems and obscure bugs with inadvertent shadowing. (12) The emphasis in this group has always been having functions as small as possible. But in that case, what is the point of then striving to have the smallest possible scope for any variable? The scope is already small enough! (13) I've touched on this, but during development, if striving to have the smallest scope, then the scope would be constantly changing as lines are added, moved, removed and modified. It would be chaotic. My feeling is that this 'smallest scope' business is best applied by some tool after a program is finished. Or applied temporarily by an IDE on a display of the source text if someone thinks that will help them understand it better. (OK perhaps there was more to say that I thought.) -- bart
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-04 12:08 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <20190204120834.7d3f84f25052b6a8315f693a@g{oogle}mail.com> |
| In reply to | #140446 |
Bart to Anton Shepelev: >>I should like to read your other points. > >Actually when I wrote that remark, I was only up to (3) but then added a >couple more! > >There probably isn't that much more to say apart from observations: > >(6) Outside of a function, most declarations aren't made at the point of >first use. If a typedef T if first used by a function half-way through a >module, then you tend not to see typedefs interspersed with function >definitions. They are usually collected together at the top. Same with >module-scope functions. > >(7) The parameter declarations in a function, necessarily have go at the >top. Although, if the style is to have declarations anywhere (I mean in >any nested block not necessarily halfway along a block) you may still >need to scan all the code to see if a parameter name has been reused. > >(With all declarations at the top of a function, not only would that be >a quicker check, but it would not be necessary as the scope is the same >as the parameter scope; you can't reuse a parameter name) > >(8) I don't personally like the style because it spoils the 'lines' of >the code, or the algorithm, having declarations cluttering it up. (My >own two languages, I frequently paste code between them, and it's the >same syntax. But one needs static type declarations like C, the other >once doesn't. Then having mixed declarations is a nuisance. > >(9) With the earlier float x,y,z example where the declarations are all >mixed up, the deciding to change them to double x,y,z is harder. First >you have to herd them all up, them you have to know that you've got them >all (was it float w,x,y,z?). > >(10) It is (for me at least) a great help to have a convenient index of >all the local variables used in a function, in a place I can quickly >locate. (Note I don't use block scopes.) It also makes it a good place >to comment the use of some of them. (The analogy I've used is having a >cast of characters at the start of play, instead of having to construct >such a list by having to painstakingly schlepp through the whole text.) > >(11) With all declarations at the top a function (this is a style that >doesn't use block scopes), you can be sure that no variable names are >reused, causing problems and obscure bugs with inadvertent shadowing. > >(12) The emphasis in this group has always been having functions as >small as possible. But in that case, what is the point of then striving >to have the smallest possible scope for any variable? The scope is >already small enough! > >(13) I've touched on this, but during development, if striving to have >the smallest scope, then the scope would be constantly changing as lines >are added, moved, removed and modified. It would be chaotic. > >My feeling is that this 'smallest scope' business is best applied by >some tool after a program is finished. Or applied temporarily by an IDE >on a display of the source text if someone thinks that will help them >understand it better. > >(OK perhaps there was more to say that I thought.) Many thanks (thirteen, to be more exact). -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ http://preview.tinyurl.com/qcy6mjc [archived]
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-04 11:14 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <q3939g$iup$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #140507 |
On 04/02/2019 10:08, Anton Shepelev wrote: > Bart to Anton Shepelev: > >> (OK perhaps there was more to say that I thought.) > > Many thanks (thirteen, to be more exact). > It was interesting to read Bart's points. But please don't take them as any kind of justification that mixing declarations and code is inherently bad, or that declaring all your variables at the start of the function is inherently good. Much of this is, as has been noted, a matter of opinion and preference. And in my opinion, Bart's points fall into several categories (with many overlaps): False dichotomies - declaring all variables at the start of the function, or declaring them all at the point of first use are not the only options. In particular, it is entirely possible to define almost all of your variables when you are ready to use them, and place them earlier with no initialisation only when necessary. And it is entirely possible to have some uninitialised variables (like "float x, y, z;") even though most /are/ initialised. Jumbled development - Bart gives the impression that writing C code is a chaotic process with code moving around randomly, with lots of variables being used in widely spread parts of code, and functions being written by trial and error, with no thought or planning, with no structure and long lengths. He also wants to limit his coding style to work with Windows Notepad, rather than better tools (there are only a few thousand better programmer's editors to choose from, assuming you restrict yourself to free Windows tools). He also insists on avoiding any kind of static error checking or help from tools. Perhaps this is his chosen development methodology, and perhaps it works for him - but I don't think other programmers work that way. Limited language - Bart uses only a subset of C, and rejects several features for reasons that presumably make sense to him, even though they make no sense to me. Amongst these is "const". I do not know if he rejects "const" because it would mean defining "const" variables when you are ready to initialise them rather than at the top of a function, or if he rejects mixing variable declarations and code because it would allow him to use "const". And then there are stylistic arguments - which are, of course, opinion and preference, and he is entitled to those. As far as I can see, the /single/ valid point Bart has made here is "I put local variable definitions at the start of code because it is a style that I am comfortable with - I find it easier to read the code and easier to write the code". There is no need to present a list of "justifications" for that, and certainly no benefit in giving a list like Bart's. As with everything else in coding style, you either write in the style you are told to, or you write in the style you want to.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-04 03:40 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <bf41fa0f-b0fd-4f52-b6f6-1a5490c4f195@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #140510 |
On Monday, 4 February 2019 10:14:17 UTC, David Brown wrote: > On 04/02/2019 10:08, Anton Shepelev wrote: > > Bart to Anton Shepelev: > > > > >> (OK perhaps there was more to say that I thought.) > > > > Many thanks (thirteen, to be more exact). > > > > It was interesting to read Bart's points. But please don't take them as > any kind of justification that mixing declarations and code is > inherently bad, or that declaring all your variables at the start of the > function is inherently good. Much of this is, as has been noted, a > matter of opinion and preference. > Bart's given perfectly coherent reasons. Few of them are a matter of preference, though coding is ultimately psychological. Were it not for the psychological factor we'd all be coding in pure binary. So something cannot be "proved" in a mathematical sense, or even as you would in one of the hard sciences.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-04 15:24 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <20190204152458.72f4ae3b022bd721c1bd35d4@g{oogle}mail.com> |
| In reply to | #140512 |
Malcolm McLean: >Bart's given perfectly coherent reasons. Few of them are a >matter of preference, though coding is ultimately >psychological. Were it not for the psychological factor >we'd all be coding in pure binary. So something cannot be >"proved" in a mathematical sense, or even as you would in >one of the hard sciences. Well, there are objective properties to our cognitive processes, such as those used in UI design. See the works of Jef Ruskin and Edward Tufte. This is why only little green men write if( 5 == x ) . -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ http://preview.tinyurl.com/qcy6mjc [archived]
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-04 12:03 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <lnk1ifuxr0.fsf@kst-u.example.com> |
| In reply to | #140513 |
Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> writes:
[...]
> Well, there are objective properties to our cognitive
> processes, such as those used in UI design. See the works
> of Jef Ruskin and Edward Tufte. This is why only little green
> men write if( 5 == x ) .
I share your dislike of "if (5 ==x)", but the dogmatic way you express
it makes me want to defend it.
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Will write code for food.
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-04 22:34 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <q3ab4a$c9v$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #140522 |
On 04/02/2019 21:03, Keith Thompson wrote:
> Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> writes:
> [...]
>> Well, there are objective properties to our cognitive
>> processes, such as those used in UI design. See the works
>> of Jef Ruskin and Edward Tufte. This is why only little green
>> men write if( 5 == x ) .
>
> I share your dislike of "if (5 ==x)", but the dogmatic way you express
> it makes me want to defend it.
>
I suspect the comment was a joke on the common name for this - "Yoda
comparisons". If you are a Star Wars fan, no more explanation is needed.
Some common safety coding standards - notably MISRA - encourage this.
The idea is that if you accidentally use "=" instead of "==", then the
code will fail to compile.
So he should have written "only little green men and European automotive
programmers write if (5 == x)" :-)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Ike Naar <ike@sdf.lonestar.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-04 22:00 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn3rjkq5hdgq.r8i.ike@sdf.lonestar.org> |
| In reply to | #140528 |
On 2019-02-04, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> On 04/02/2019 21:03, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> writes:
>> [...]
>>> Well, there are objective properties to our cognitive
>>> processes, such as those used in UI design. See the works
>>> of Jef Ruskin and Edward Tufte. This is why only little green
>>> men write if( 5 == x ) .
>>
>> I share your dislike of "if (5 ==x)", but the dogmatic way you express
>> it makes me want to defend it.
>>
>
> I suspect the comment was a joke on the common name for this - "Yoda
> comparisons". If you are a Star Wars fan, no more explanation is needed.
>
> Some common safety coding standards - notably MISRA - encourage this.
> The idea is that if you accidentally use "=" instead of "==", then the
> code will fail to compile.
>
> So he should have written "only little green men and European automotive
> programmers write if (5 == x)" :-)
Counterexample:
I am not a little green man nor an automotive programmer but I accept
(5 == x) as well as (x == 5) for the simple reason that they mean the
same thing in C, i.e. "five equals x" vs. "x equals five".
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-04 21:32 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <q3a7hc$jv1$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #140512 |
On 04/02/2019 12:40, Malcolm McLean wrote: > On Monday, 4 February 2019 10:14:17 UTC, David Brown wrote: >> On 04/02/2019 10:08, Anton Shepelev wrote: >>> Bart to Anton Shepelev: >>> >> >>>> (OK perhaps there was more to say that I thought.) >>> >>> Many thanks (thirteen, to be more exact). >>> >> >> It was interesting to read Bart's points. But please don't take them as >> any kind of justification that mixing declarations and code is >> inherently bad, or that declaring all your variables at the start of the >> function is inherently good. Much of this is, as has been noted, a >> matter of opinion and preference. >> > Bart's given perfectly coherent reasons. Few of them are a matter of > preference, though coding is ultimately psychological. Were it not for > the psychological factor we'd all be coding in pure binary. So something > cannot be "proved" in a mathematical sense, or even as you would in > one of the hard sciences. > Please read what I posted - the bits you snipped. Bart's sentences were coherent (which is more than can be said for some posters in this group). That does not automatically make them good reasons.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Bart <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-04 12:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <HhW5E.684944$Fi6.335600@fx12.am4> |
| In reply to | #140510 |
On 04/02/2019 10:14, David Brown wrote: > And in my opinion, Bart's points fall into several categories (with many > overlaps): > He also wants to limit his coding style to work with > Windows Notepad, rather than better tools (there are only a few thousand > better programmer's editors to choose from, assuming you restrict > yourself to free Windows tools). I use my own editor which works just the way I want (with hard stops at the line ends etc) and which supports my own syntax. Pretty much all other editors lack the hard stops (editing continues onto adjacent lines) and none of them support my syntax. That makes it far more valuable to me than any other editor. > Limited language - Bart uses only a subset of C, and rejects several > features for reasons that presumably make sense to him, even though they > make no sense to me. Amongst these is "const". I do not know if he > rejects "const" because it would mean defining "const" variables when > you are ready to initialise them rather than at the top of a function, > or if he rejects mixing variable declarations and code because it would > allow him to use "const". 'const' is too crude, it has limitations, it is not fail-safe, it generates clutter, and tends to be overused in other people's code. (I'm looking at better alternatives in a new language I'm putting together. I don't reject the idea, only C's approach.) > And then there are stylistic arguments - which are, of course, opinion > and preference, and he is entitled to those. As far as I can see, the > /single/ valid point Bart has made here is "I put local variable > definitions at the start of code because it is a style that I am > comfortable with - I find it easier to read the code and easier to write > the code". There is no need to present a list of "justifications" for > that, and certainly no benefit in giving a list like Bart's. Replace "I" with "most people". > As with everything else in coding style, you either write in the style > you are told to, or you write in the style you want to. I generally code in my own language. That also allows declarations anywhere, so I don't reject the idea completely. But that's rarely used, mainly for temporary debug code (and it has some limitations I won't go into). There is one big difference however between my language and C: I don't have block scopes. So if I have a variable "A" used in one place, and a declaration for "A" in another, then I KNOW they refer to the same A. If, in C, you had to document all the local variables, in general that wouldn't be possible, because every block can define its own version of "A". Block variables in C are actually anonymous (if there are two instances of "A", how do you disambiguate them in speech or in text?) BTW in my language, you don't need to declare all the locals at the top of a function; you can put them all at the end if you like! These out-of-order declarations, and the single function-wide scope, takes care of several of my 13 points, and actually makes my language more suitable than C if you do want to mix declarations with code. -- bart
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
Page 3 of 19 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 … 19 Next page →
Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.c
csiph-web