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Groups > comp.lang.c > #11845 > unrolled thread

Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation

Started byscs@eskimo.com (Steve Summit)
First post2011-10-18 00:00 +0000
Last post2011-10-27 00:18 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 291 — 52 participants

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  Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation scs@eskimo.com (Steve Summit) - 2011-10-18 00:00 +0000
    Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Uno <Uno@example.invalid> - 2011-10-18 05:20 -0600
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2011-11-11 23:51 +0000
    Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Dann Corbit <dcorbit@connx.com> - 2011-10-18 14:37 -0700
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-19 10:52 +1300
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "James" <no@spam.invalid> - 2011-10-18 16:47 -0700
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-19 00:02 -0700
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "Bill Davy" <Bill@SynectixLtd.com> - 2011-10-19 08:57 +0100
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-19 02:13 -0700
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Kleuskes & Moos <kleuske@somewhere.else.net> - 2011-10-19 13:41 +0000
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-20 00:04 -0700
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-10-19 15:32 +0000
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2011-10-19 09:57 -0700
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Frederick Williams <freddywilliams@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-19 20:46 +0100
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation 88888 dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-19 13:06 -0700
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-19 20:49 +0000
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2011-10-19 19:04 -0400
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation lovecreatesbeauty <lovecreatesbeauty@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 07:43 -0700
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Frederick Williams <freddywilliams@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-21 16:56 +0100
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "sadsailor" <overboard@the.oceans> - 2011-10-21 16:37 -0500
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-21 17:17 +0000
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2011-10-21 13:30 -0400
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-22 07:57 -0700
          Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) - 2011-10-22 15:51 +0000
          Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-22 18:19 +0000
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-23 08:00 +1300
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Frederick Williams <freddywilliams@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-23 15:39 +0100
          Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-23 05:55 -0700
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-10-23 21:30 +0100
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation blp@cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff) - 2011-10-23 14:27 -0700
          Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-23 10:28 -0400
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-23 08:36 -0700
              Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "Charles Richmond" <netnews@aquaporin4.com> - 2011-10-23 23:21 -0500
              Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "Charles Richmond" <netnews@aquaporin4.com> - 2011-10-23 23:21 -0500
              Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "Charles Richmond" <netnews@aquaporin4.com> - 2011-10-23 23:23 -0500
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-10-23 12:35 -0500
              Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-23 14:01 -0400
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2011-10-23 14:34 -0400
              Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2011-10-23 13:49 -0600
              Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-23 18:14 -0400
                Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-24 01:59 -0700
                  Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-24 06:25 -0400
                  Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-10-24 14:43 +0000
                    Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-24 09:01 -0700
                      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation André Gillibert <MetaEntropy.removeThis@gmail.com> - 2011-10-24 18:23 +0200
                      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-25 08:02 +1300
                      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-25 00:44 -0700
                      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-10-25 21:24 +0000
                        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-26 00:58 -0700
                          Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-26 23:21 +1300
                          OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-10-29 06:56 +0000
                            Re: OOP and C++ and C Markus Wichmann <nullplan@gmx.net> - 2011-10-29 21:18 +0200
                              Re: OOP and C++ and C nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-30 10:43 -0700
                                Re: OOP and C++ and C Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-31 02:26 -0700
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 08:43 -0700
                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-01 03:11 -0700
                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-01 08:17 -0700
                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-02 06:16 -0700
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2011-11-28 00:23 +0000
                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-27 23:57 -0800
                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-28 00:20 -0800
                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2011-11-29 23:36 +0000
                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-30 12:42 +1300
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-11-30 10:46 +0100
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2011-12-01 23:20 +0000
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-02 12:39 +1300
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-12-02 00:42 +0000
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-02 13:45 +1300
                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-12-02 00:57 +0000
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-12-02 08:49 +0100
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2011-12-02 17:45 +0000
                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-11-30 21:42 +0000
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-11-30 22:59 +0100
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C Quentin Pope <qp19433@hotmail.NOSPAM.com> - 2011-11-30 22:09 +0000
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-01 11:20 +1300
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-12-01 00:21 +0100
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-01 01:22 -0800
                                                  Re: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis and programming JohnF <john@please.see.sig.for.email.com> - 2011-12-01 10:18 +0000
                                                    Re: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis and programming Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-01 04:57 -0800
                                                      Re: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis and programming JohnF <john@please.see.sig.for.email.com> - 2011-12-02 08:34 +0000
                                                    Re: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis and programming Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2011-12-01 13:38 +0000
                                                      Re: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis and programming 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-01 13:47 -0800
                                                      Re: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis and programming JohnF <john@please.see.sig.for.email.com> - 2011-12-02 08:10 +0000
                                                    Re: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis and programming Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-12-02 17:48 +0000
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-30 18:35 -0500
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-12-01 02:53 -0800
                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-12-01 07:07 -0500
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-12-04 00:35 +0000
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2011-12-03 18:28 -0800
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-11-30 14:10 -0800
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-12-01 00:15 +0100
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-01 12:21 +1300
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-12-01 00:29 +0100
                                                  Operator overloading extensions (Was re: OOP and C++ and C) "Joel C. Salomon" <joelcsalomon@gmail.com> - 2011-12-01 15:50 -0500
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-12-01 07:38 +0100
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-01 20:26 +1300
                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-30 18:37 -0500
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-01 02:05 -0800
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-12-01 07:09 -0500
                                Re: OOP and C++ and C Markus Wichmann <nullplan@gmx.net> - 2011-11-01 10:13 +0100
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-01 23:02 +1300
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-01 04:04 -0700
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-01 08:45 -0700
                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-01 09:25 -0700
                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-01 09:30 -0700
                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-01 12:59 -0400
                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-01 10:30 -0700
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-01 14:33 -0400
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-01 13:10 -0700
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-01 16:37 -0400
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-01 13:44 -0700
                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-01 21:03 -0400
                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-11-01 16:26 -0700
                                Re: OOP and C++ and C Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-11-03 02:38 +0000
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 22:53 -0400
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-03 16:03 +1300
                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-30 01:07 -0700
                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-30 21:22 +1300
                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-30 04:41 -0700
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-30 08:40 -0400
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-30 10:56 -0700
                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-31 03:03 -0700
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-31 02:59 -0700
                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-30 07:56 -0700
                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-30 08:13 -0700
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-10-30 18:05 +0000
                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-30 11:38 -0700
                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-31 07:56 +1300
                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-31 01:11 -0700
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-31 21:34 +1300
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 08:36 -0700
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-01 07:37 +1300
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-31 06:55 -0400
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-31 06:08 -0700
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-31 10:42 -0400
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-31 07:56 -0700
                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-31 12:54 -0400
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-01 07:47 +1300
                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-10-30 19:46 +0000
                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-31 01:49 -0700
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-10-31 15:15 +0000
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 09:01 -0700
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-10-31 18:04 +0000
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 11:56 -0700
                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-01 03:03 +0000
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-31 09:18 -0700
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 09:39 -0700
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-31 09:54 -0700
                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 10:11 -0700
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-01 03:22 +0000
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-31 23:08 -0700
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 09:04 -0700
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-31 09:26 -0700
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 09:37 -0700
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-31 10:01 -0700
                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-01 07:59 +1300
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 09:52 -0700
                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 17:25 -0700
                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-01 21:44 +0000
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 07:07 -0700
                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-30 08:33 -0700
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-10-30 18:00 +0000
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-31 03:20 -0700
                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-10-31 20:07 +0000
                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 13:48 -0700
                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-31 22:18 -0400
                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-01 03:59 +0000
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 22:52 -0700
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-01 04:27 -0700
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-01 18:56 +0000
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-01 12:59 -0700
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-01 16:46 -0400
                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-01 14:16 -0700
                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-01 21:35 -0400
                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 08:22 -0700
                                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-02 10:14 -0700
                                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 12:09 -0700
                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) jameskuyper <jameskuyper@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 13:11 -0700
                                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 15:01 -0700
                                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-02 22:11 +0000
                                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 15:32 -0700
                                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-02 21:31 -0400
                                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-03 07:41 +0000
                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 19:58 -0400
                                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2011-11-02 21:45 +0000
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-02 14:26 +0000
                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-02 11:07 -0400
                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-03 12:51 +0000
                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-03 06:36 -0700
                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-03 14:34 +0000
                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-03 08:41 -0700
                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-04 03:30 +0000
                                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-04 09:03 -0700
                                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-04 09:24 -0700
                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-04 09:44 -0700
                                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-09 00:06 +0000
                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-09 00:03 -0800
                                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-09 10:57 +0000
                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-10 09:13 -0800
                                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-11-10 11:05 -0800
                                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-10 13:23 -0800
                                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-10 14:47 -0800
                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-11-11 00:17 +0000
                                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-11 09:29 -0800
                                                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-11 18:05 +0000
                                                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-11-11 18:19 +0000
                                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-11 13:28 -0500
                                                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-11-11 18:37 +0000
                                                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-11 14:13 -0500
                                                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-11 11:17 -0800
                                                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-11 21:49 +0000
                                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-11-11 22:11 +0000
                                                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-11 14:19 -0800
                                                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-12 02:50 +0000
                                                                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-12 01:44 -0800
                                                                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-12 17:54 +0000
                                                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-12 11:38 -0800
                                                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-14 02:36 -0800
                                                                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-14 16:01 +0000
                                                                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 10:40 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-14 18:36 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 11:51 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 12:08 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-14 20:25 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 13:11 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-14 21:46 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 14:56 -0800
                                                                                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-14 23:01 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 15:50 -0800
                                                                                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-15 02:48 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-15 08:52 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2011-11-14 20:15 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-15 02:48 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 14:17 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-14 22:38 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C blp@cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff) - 2011-11-14 14:45 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 15:21 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-14 23:40 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 15:59 -0800
                                                                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-11-14 12:16 -0600
                                                                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2011-11-14 18:25 +0000
                                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-11 14:15 -0800
                                                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-11 23:53 +0000
                                                                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-11 16:16 -0800
                                                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-11 19:53 +0000
                                                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-11 12:02 -0800
                                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-14 02:05 -0800
                                                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 08:36 -0800
                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-11-10 17:00 -0800
                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-11 04:53 +0000
                                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-11 09:27 -0800
                                                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-12 04:27 +0000
                                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-10 23:00 +0000
                                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-10 15:10 -0800
                                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-11 03:30 +0000
                                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-11 00:41 -0800
                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-12 05:14 +0000
                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2011-11-21 02:39 -0500
                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-30 11:00 -0700
                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-10-30 19:09 +0100
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-30 11:51 -0700
                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-10-30 20:36 +0000
                    Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2011-10-24 12:16 -0400
                      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-10-25 20:30 +0000
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2011-10-24 15:52 -0400
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2011-10-24 21:40 -0400
          Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201110.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2011-10-26 06:13 +0200
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-26 01:34 -0700
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2011-10-26 09:47 -0400
              Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201110.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2011-10-27 04:54 +0200
                Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation luser- -droog <mijoryx@yahoo.com> - 2011-10-27 11:27 -0700
    Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation AK <anoopkammaran@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 00:01 -0700
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation lovecreatesbeauty <lovecreatesbeauty@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 07:50 -0700
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2011-10-20 11:07 -0400
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-20 16:31 +0000
          Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-20 11:13 -0700
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-20 11:43 -0700
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-10-21 08:35 +0000
              Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-21 02:45 -0700
                Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation André Gillibert <MetaEntropy.removeThis@gmail.com> - 2011-10-24 18:41 +0200
                  Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-10-25 14:06 +0000
                    Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-25 10:13 -0700
          Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "Charles Richmond" <netnews@aquaporin4.com> - 2011-10-20 21:58 -0500
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "Charles Richmond" <netnews@aquaporin4.com> - 2011-10-20 21:52 -0500
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-10-23 10:32 +0200
          Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-23 05:58 -0700
    Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation lovecreatesbeauty <lovecreatesbeauty@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 07:40 -0700
    Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-25 10:19 -0700
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-26 01:53 -0700
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-26 14:40 -0700
          Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-27 00:18 -0700

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#12433 — Re: OOP and C++ and C

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2011-11-01 23:02 +1300
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C
Message-ID<9h9uddFeluU6@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#12430
On 11/ 1/11 10:13 PM, Markus Wichmann wrote:
> On 30.10.2011 18:43, nroberts wrote:
>>
>> Of course, the generic programming paradigm, which is what templates
>> are pretty much about, is often foreign to someone stuck in the C
>> world and unwilling to expand their knowledge.  This is no different
>> from any other tool though.  If you don't want to learn these things,
>> that's fine, but your willing ignorance isn't a good argument.
>>
>
> Well, I guess you're right about that. I still think it is good design
> to actually write only the stuff you need. I once wrote a matrix class.
> I only needed it to contain integers, so I wrote it like this. I don't
> see why I should have written a template class. Just so that at some
> later point I could reuse it? But then again, this class was half a
> day's work, so there's no real point. Plus I actually only needed the
> Gauss-Jordan algorithm.

That's a fair call.  If sometime later you need to use the class for 
some other type, that's the time to make it generic.

-- 
Ian Collins

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#12439 — Re: OOP and C++ and C

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com>
Date2011-11-01 04:04 -0700
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C
Message-ID<927640ad-b5a2-4fdc-9629-f2975bccb9eb@g7g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#12430
On Nov 1, 11:13 am, Markus Wichmann <nullp...@gmx.net> wrote:
> On 30.10.2011 18:43, nroberts wrote:
>
> C++ however advocates a bottom-up design which often leads to more code
> being written than actually used. Also, the code is more general,
> because you think about needing a list, before you think about needing a
> list of integers. (OK, bad example, as there's already std::list available)
>
I find a lot of my C functions are general. That's partly a reflection
of the type of code I write, at the moment, mainly code to explore DNA
sequence data. So I have a lot of functions for pattern matching and
doing statistics and loading files in various formats, which I then
plug together with throw-away code.


--
Visit my website
http://www.malcolmmclean.site11.com/www

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#12451 — Re: OOP and C++ and C

Fromnroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com>
Date2011-11-01 08:45 -0700
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C
Message-ID<73631c10-c490-4e3b-9bd1-f03701a376c1@j20g2000vby.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#12430
On Nov 1, 2:13 am, Markus Wichmann <nullp...@gmx.net> wrote:
> On 30.10.2011 18:43, nroberts wrote:

> > On Oct 29, 12:18 pm, Markus Wichmann <nullp...@gmx.net> wrote:

> > All of these features are important and have their uses.  They can all
> > be used badly.  Poor design is poor design in C, C++, or any other
> > language.
>
> True, but in C++ you have more possibilities for bad design.

Because you said so....ok.

>
> >  Consider this function:
>
> > void function_that_outputs_blob(blob* b);
>
> > If that function does something other than outputting a blob, whatever
> > that means, then people reading code that use it are not going to know
> > what that code does.  This is exactly the same for using standard
> > function names like operator++ to mean something other than the
> > standard use or having conversion operators for types to which
> > conversion makes no sense.
>
> That is right, but at the very least, people reading the code are able
> to detect a call to a function, unlike the line I posted.

Why do they need to?  All they should be caring about is that x is
being incremented by y and then y is incremented.  Who cares if that's
a set of CPU statements or another set of CPU statements?  That's the
whole point of working at a higher level than machine language.
>
>
>
> >> - even if they aren't class instances, we have:
> >> - x might be a reference to typeof y
> >> - y might be a reference to something
> >> - x might even reference y, which means that this line invokes
> >>   undefined behaviour
> >> - or y might reference x, which yields the same
>
> > These later cases can all occur in C if the line is changed to:
>
> > *x += (*y)++;
>
> That's true too, but then you actually know that x and y must be
> pointers, which isn't obvious from the C++ line.

Again, it shouldn't matter.  The kind of convoluted situations in
which you don't know that x and y reference the same variable do not
generally occur.

> No templates were used in that implementation. It was a class that went
> something like:
>
> class TSPrintf {
>     std::string format;
>     unsigned int pos;
>     public:
>         TSPrintf(const std::string&);
>         TSPrintf& operator()(unsigned int);
>         TSPrintf& operator()(char);
>         TSPrintf& operator()(const char*);
>         TSPrintf& operator()(you_name_it);
>
> };
>
> The call would then go like
>
> TSPrintf("%u errors in %u lines\n")(errors)(lines);
>
> And if you tried funny stuff like
>
> TSPrintf("%s errors\n")(errors);

What a limited, unfortunate, and fragile design.

> > If that's the only example that you've seen though then you're
> > obviously not looking at a lot of C++.
>
> I looked at the STL at another point and lost myself in the code
> somewhere. It's a bit astonishing what kind of stuff you actually need
> to do before you can shift strings into streams.

In other words, "I don't understand it, ergo it's evil."  You could
have learned a lot from the STL.

>
> C++ however advocates a bottom-up design which often leads to more code
> being written than actually used. Also, the code is more general,
> because you think about needing a list, before you think about needing a
> list of integers. (OK, bad example, as there's already std::list available)

Well, at least YOU know what I'm thinking.

>
> Yeah. And local typedefs don't always serve to really abbreviate things
> as they were meant to. I once read a template that went along the lines of:
>
> template <typename T> class X {
>     typedef T my_local_type;
>
> }
>
> I don't see why one would "abbreviate" T with "my_local_type", but hey,
> that's how they roll.

Which is your ignorance.  You should be trying to loose it, not coddle
it and turn it into your argument.

Often one needs to instantiate the type of a parameter or a return.
The broken template you wrote to make a mean for example should have
used this technique.  Tell me, do you know how templates that make use
of class X instantiations would get T without that local typedef?  I
do:

template < typename T > struct get_T_from_X;
template < typename T > struct get_T_from_X< X<T> > { typedef T
type; };

There are often times when this method is necessary and important, but
even then it's easier to write the default case to refer to a local
typedef instead of specializing to get the parameter.

Of course, all of this is so that you CAN tell what type you are
working with, be that in a return or a parameter.  With the new C++
you can use decltype for a return type, but not so easily for the
parameter.  This can be much more difficult though, requiring calls to
other 'functions' like declval and such.  I don't think the local
typedef solution is going to be superseded any time soon.

> So you cannot figure out what a class function
> actually returns even after you read the declaration.

You need to learn a little about the subject you are speaking about
before your arguments are anything but vapor.

> Well, I guess you're right about that. I still think it is good design
> to actually write only the stuff you need. I once wrote a matrix class.
> I only needed it to contain integers, so I wrote it like this. I don't
> see why I should have written a template class. Just so that at some
> later point I could reuse it? But then again, this class was half a
> day's work, so there's no real point. Plus I actually only needed the
> Gauss-Jordan algorithm.

"I once wrote a matrix class that was only capable of working on
integers.  I didn't need anything more than that.  Thus I don't see
why anyone would need something that worked on more types."

Got it.

You remind me of the people who've never graduated high school, never
read a book other than some holy scripture, and then yell and scream
about how all the scientists are wrong.

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#12458 — Re: OOP and C++ and C

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com>
Date2011-11-01 09:25 -0700
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C
Message-ID<fd30eb6d-d6fd-4cc6-b7db-3c2f98ecf4d3@p14g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#12451
On Nov 1, 5:45 pm, nroberts <roberts.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Because you said so....ok.
>
> What a limited, unfortunate, and fragile design.
>
> In other words, "I don't understand it, ergo it's evil."  You could
> have learned a lot from the STL.
>
> Which is your ignorance.  You should be trying to loose it, not coddle
> it and turn it into your argument.
>
> You need to learn a little about the subject you are speaking about
> before your arguments are anything but vapor.
>
> You remind me of the people who've never graduated high school, never
> read a book other than some holy scripture, and then yell and scream
> about how all the scientists are wrong.
>
Relax.

There are two components to the system, the computer and the human
programmer.

It's no good having a programming language which is superbly
efficient, malleable, with automatic error-checking and so on, if for
some reason humans find it difficult to use. There's not much point
blaming the human for his stupidity, unless you can hire someone else,
and very frequently the person you might really want is nowhere to be
found.
--
The ten rules of computer programming
http://www.malcolmmcleam.site11.com/www

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#12459 — Re: OOP and C++ and C

Fromnroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com>
Date2011-11-01 09:30 -0700
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C
Message-ID<827c38d9-2dbb-4e1b-b457-fae7911ee43c@er6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#12458
On Nov 1, 9:25 am, Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mcle...@btinternet.com>
wrote:
> On Nov 1, 5:45 pm, nroberts <roberts.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Because you said so....ok.
>
> > What a limited, unfortunate, and fragile design.
>
> > In other words, "I don't understand it, ergo it's evil."  You could
> > have learned a lot from the STL.
>
> > Which is your ignorance.  You should be trying to loose it, not coddle
> > it and turn it into your argument.
>
> > You need to learn a little about the subject you are speaking about
> > before your arguments are anything but vapor.
>
> > You remind me of the people who've never graduated high school, never
> > read a book other than some holy scripture, and then yell and scream
> > about how all the scientists are wrong.
>
> Relax.
>
> There are two components to the system, the computer and the human
> programmer.
>
> It's no good having a programming language which is superbly
> efficient, malleable, with automatic error-checking and so on, if for
> some reason humans find it difficult to use. There's not much point
> blaming the human for his stupidity,

There is when it clearly their own doing.

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#12462 — Re: OOP and C++ and C

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2011-11-01 12:59 -0400
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C
Message-ID<4EB0257B.9090505@verizon.net>
In reply to#12458
On 11/01/2011 12:25 PM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
...
> There are two components to the system, the computer and the human
> programmer.
> 
> It's no good having a programming language which is superbly
> efficient, malleable, with automatic error-checking and so on, if for
> some reason humans find it difficult to use. ...

Everything is difficult to use, for some humans. C++ is a substantially
more complicated language than C, which means that there's larger number
of people who find it difficult. I personally think that it comes
uncomfortably close to being too difficult to learn to be useful; but I
don't think it's actually crossed that line - yet. It looks to me like
the next version of the C++ standard might do the trick.

> ... There's not much point
> blaming the human for his stupidity, unless you can hire someone else,

However, people who find these aspects of C++ easier to deal with than
you do are not too hard to find. Whether they can be hired depends upon
how much you can afford to pay them. I've never been authorized to hire
someone to do C++ programming, so I've no idea what that level of
expertise costs in the current market.

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#12464 — Re: OOP and C++ and C

Fromnroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com>
Date2011-11-01 10:30 -0700
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C
Message-ID<bbd061b9-4bf9-4f97-9a48-728ebc51884f@j39g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#12462
On Nov 1, 9:59 am, James Kuyper <jameskuy...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 11/01/2011 12:25 PM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> ...
>
> > There are two components to the system, the computer and the human
> > programmer.
>
> > It's no good having a programming language which is superbly
> > efficient, malleable, with automatic error-checking and so on, if for
> > some reason humans find it difficult to use. ...
>
> Everything is difficult to use, for some humans. C++ is a substantially
> more complicated language than C...

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3027177/what-are-the-differences-between-c-and-c/3027347#3027347

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#12465 — Re: OOP and C++ and C

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2011-11-01 14:33 -0400
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C
Message-ID<4EB03B73.7070102@verizon.net>
In reply to#12464
On 11/01/2011 01:30 PM, nroberts wrote:
> On Nov 1, 9:59 am, James Kuyper <jameskuy...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On 11/01/2011 12:25 PM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> There are two components to the system, the computer and the human
>>> programmer.
>>
>>> It's no good having a programming language which is superbly
>>> efficient, malleable, with automatic error-checking and so on, if for
>>> some reason humans find it difficult to use. ...
>>
>> Everything is difficult to use, for some humans. C++ is a substantially
>> more complicated language than C...
> 
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3027177/what-are-the-differences-between-c-and-c/3027347#3027347

I notice that the answer you pointed me at is number 4 in terms of
number of votes, and conflicts with all three answers that got a higher
number of votes. Voting isn't proof, but when a lot of people vote in
favor of answers asserting that C++ is the harder language, I think we
can assume, at the very least, that those particular people found it
more difficult.

The fundamental problem with the idea that C++ has an "easy" part that
you can learn without needing to worry about the "difficult" C part, is
that both are parts of the same language, and that most people writing
in that language write code that mixes features from both parts.

Therefore, you won't be able to understand the code written by those
other people without gaining a certain amount of mastery of the C-like
part of C++. Indeed, a fair number of people consider themselves to be
C++ programmers because they used a C++ compiler to compile their code,
despite the fact that their code that makes little or no use of C++
features that are not also supported by the C standard.

Therefore, you can't gain an understanding of C++ that is sufficient to
do maintenance on other people's code, without also mastering most of
the features that it shares in common with C; and those features add up
to something like 99% of the features specified in the C90 standard (a
slightly smaller percentage of the C99 standard).

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#12478 — Re: OOP and C++ and C

Fromnroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com>
Date2011-11-01 13:10 -0700
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C
Message-ID<d428b4dc-39ef-4900-a2e7-f0e00b19bb3c@h24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#12465
On Nov 1, 11:33 am, James Kuyper <jameskuy...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 11/01/2011 01:30 PM, nroberts wrote:
>
> > On Nov 1, 9:59 am, James Kuyper <jameskuy...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> On 11/01/2011 12:25 PM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> >> ...
>
> >>> There are two components to the system, the computer and the human
> >>> programmer.
>
> >>> It's no good having a programming language which is superbly
> >>> efficient, malleable, with automatic error-checking and so on, if for
> >>> some reason humans find it difficult to use. ...
>
> >> Everything is difficult to use, for some humans. C++ is a substantially
> >> more complicated language than C...
>
> >http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3027177/what-are-the-differences-b...
>
> I notice that the answer you pointed me at is number 4 in terms of
> number of votes, and conflicts with all three answers that got a higher
> number of votes. Voting isn't proof, but when a lot of people vote in
> favor of answers asserting that C++ is the harder language, I think we
> can assume, at the very least, that those particular people found it
> more difficult.

I don't think that's an assumption that can be made either way.  As
can be seen through the ample evidence here in this thread, people
like to chatter on about the difficulty of things they've never
bothered to learn.

99% of the words that come out of the mouths of human beings is
complete and total crap based more on their preconceptions, biases,
and ignorance than on reason or experience.  Measuring votes is even
more tenuous as people vote for things they like to hear, if they're
not just voting for the people without even reading what was said (a
common occurrence on stackoverflow where there's even chat rooms for
people to clique up in and vote up their friends and down people they
don't like).  This is especially true of religiously motivated
conceptions like programming language bigotry.

I posted the link because I agree with what it says.  I should, I
wrote it.  It also responds to this "C++ is too big and complex" issue
you were bringing up.  That site's voting system though is more an
interesting social experiment than a viable technological rating.

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#12484 — Re: OOP and C++ and C

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2011-11-01 16:37 -0400
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C
Message-ID<4EB0588E.90409@verizon.net>
In reply to#12478
On 11/01/2011 04:10 PM, nroberts wrote:
> On Nov 1, 11:33 am, James Kuyper <jameskuy...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On 11/01/2011 01:30 PM, nroberts wrote:
...
>>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3027177/what-are-the-differences-b...
>>
>> I notice that the answer you pointed me at is number 4 in terms of
>> number of votes, and conflicts with all three answers that got a higher
>> number of votes. Voting isn't proof, but when a lot of people vote in
>> favor of answers asserting that C++ is the harder language, I think we
>> can assume, at the very least, that those particular people found it
>> more difficult.
....
> 99% of the words that come out of the mouths of human beings is
> complete and total crap based more on their preconceptions, biases,
> and ignorance than on reason or experience. ...

That's a pretty misanthropic assessment. Even Sturgeon's law tops out at
90%. Even if it's true, I see no reason why it shouldn't apply equally
strongly to both sides of that question. You might also want to consider
the possibility that your claim is self-referential.

Rather than posting a rather comprehensive slander aimed at ... just
about everybody - wouldn't it have been more productive to address the
issue I raised? You know - the one about the need to learn enough about
the C-like side of C++ to be able to read and understand code written by
people who do not choose to avoid that part of the language.

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#12486 — Re: OOP and C++ and C

Fromnroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com>
Date2011-11-01 13:44 -0700
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C
Message-ID<8b20a67e-9a68-4a7f-9fa3-685fdcf86976@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#12484
On Nov 1, 1:37 pm, James Kuyper <jameskuy...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 11/01/2011 04:10 PM, nroberts wrote:
>
> > On Nov 1, 11:33 am, James Kuyper <jameskuy...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> On 11/01/2011 01:30 PM, nroberts wrote:
> ...
> >>>http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3027177/what-are-the-differences-b...
>
> >> I notice that the answer you pointed me at is number 4 in terms of
> >> number of votes, and conflicts with all three answers that got a higher
> >> number of votes. Voting isn't proof, but when a lot of people vote in
> >> favor of answers asserting that C++ is the harder language, I think we
> >> can assume, at the very least, that those particular people found it
> >> more difficult.
> ....
> > 99% of the words that come out of the mouths of human beings is
> > complete and total crap based more on their preconceptions, biases,
> > and ignorance than on reason or experience. ...
>
> That's a pretty misanthropic assessment. Even Sturgeon's law tops out at
> 90%.

Weren't paying much attention, where you.

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#12503 — Re: OOP and C++ and C

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2011-11-01 21:03 -0400
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C
Message-ID<j8q4sq$mt0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#12486
On 11/01/2011 04:44 PM, nroberts wrote:
> On Nov 1, 1:37�pm, James Kuyper <jameskuy...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On 11/01/2011 04:10 PM, nroberts wrote:
...
>>> 99% of the words that come out of the mouths of human beings is
>>> complete and total crap based more on their preconceptions, biases,
>>> and ignorance than on reason or experience. ...
>>
>> That's a pretty misanthropic assessment. Even Sturgeon's law tops out at
>> 90%.
> 
> Weren't paying much attention, where you.

OK - self-referential it is.
-- 
James Kuyper

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#12499 — Re: OOP and C++ and C

FromKeith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Date2011-11-01 16:26 -0700
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C
Message-ID<lnpqhbifw7.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org>
In reply to#12451
nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> writes:
> On Nov 1, 2:13 am, Markus Wichmann <nullp...@gmx.net> wrote:
[...]
>> Well, I guess you're right about that. I still think it is good design
>> to actually write only the stuff you need. I once wrote a matrix class.
>> I only needed it to contain integers, so I wrote it like this. I don't
>> see why I should have written a template class. Just so that at some
>> later point I could reuse it? But then again, this class was half a
>> day's work, so there's no real point. Plus I actually only needed the
>> Gauss-Jordan algorithm.
>
> "I once wrote a matrix class that was only capable of working on
> integers.  I didn't need anything more than that.  Thus I don't see
> why anyone would need something that worked on more types."
>
> Got it.

No, you haven't got it.

He didn't say "I don't see why anyone would need something that
worked on more types.".  He didn't even imply it.  He said that *he*
didn't need it to work on anything other than integers.

Making it generic might have been fairly easy (depending on the
language), but it would have been a non-zero effort.  Not only
that, but it's something that could be done later, when *and if*
he had a need to make it work on something other than integers.

And what about testing?  If he'd made it generic from the beginning,
then either he'd have to expend extra effort testing it with other
types, *or* he could leave it untested, possibly resulting in unused
untested code.

My "Hello, world" program might need an e-mail client some day; that
doesn't mean I should build it into the first version.

[snip]

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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#12569 — Re: OOP and C++ and C

FromKaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com>
Date2011-11-03 02:38 +0000
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C
Message-ID<20111102222329.818@kylheku.com>
In reply to#12301
On 2011-10-30, nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 29, 12:18 pm, Markus Wichmann <nullp...@gmx.net> wrote:
>> On 29.10.2011 08:56, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>>
>> > So do I, and it's definitely workable -- but not having RAII,
>
> Not having scope tied destructors hurts.

Not having scope-tied exit code ("unwind protect") is what hurts!

This hurts even when you have destructors because destructors are
clumsy. They let you run code, but in a remote context somewhere with
its own scope which has no visibility into the scope which is
terminating (i.e. the object that actually needs the clean up).

I would gladly trade C++ destructors for unwind protect.

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#12571 — Re: OOP and C++ and C

FromUncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com>
Date2011-11-02 22:53 -0400
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C
Message-ID<a7f08a5955527b0-7465f@gmail.com>
In reply to#12569
On Thu, Nov 03, 2011 at 02:38:55AM +0000, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> On 2011-10-30, nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 29, 12:18 pm, Markus Wichmann <nullp...@gmx.net> wrote:
> >> On 29.10.2011 08:56, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> >>
> >> > So do I, and it's definitely workable -- but not having RAII,
> >
> > Not having scope tied destructors hurts.
> 
> Not having scope-tied exit code ("unwind protect") is what hurts!
> 
> This hurts even when you have destructors because destructors are
> clumsy. They let you run code, but in a remote context somewhere with
> its own scope which has no visibility into the scope which is
> terminating (i.e. the object that actually needs the clean up).
> 
> I would gladly trade C++ destructors for unwind protect.

Sounds like a pipe dream.  HTF are you going to unwind protect Kylie
Minogue?  Let's be realistic about this, eh?



Regards,

Uncle Steve

--
My robot girlfriend can beat up your robot girlfriend.

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#12572 — Re: OOP and C++ and C

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2011-11-03 16:03 +1300
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C
Message-ID<9heejiFilbU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#12569
On 11/ 3/11 03:38 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> On 2011-10-30, nroberts<roberts.noah@gmail.com>  wrote:
>> On Oct 29, 12:18 pm, Markus Wichmann<nullp...@gmx.net>  wrote:
>>> On 29.10.2011 08:56, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>>>
>>>> So do I, and it's definitely workable -- but not having RAII,
>>
>> Not having scope tied destructors hurts.
>
> Not having scope-tied exit code ("unwind protect") is what hurts!
>
> This hurts even when you have destructors because destructors are
> clumsy. They let you run code, but in a remote context somewhere with
> its own scope which has no visibility into the scope which is
> terminating (i.e. the object that actually needs the clean up).
>
> I would gladly trade C++ destructors for unwind protect.

How would unwind-protect work in cases where you want an object's 
destruction to cause the release of a managed resource (a smart pointer 
for example)?

-- 
Ian Collins

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#12277 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com>
Date2011-10-30 01:07 -0700
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<b8429e86-98be-4b4d-9ea3-7a758b4b5561@n38g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#12222
On Oct 29, 8:56 am, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+n...@snipabacken.se> wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-10-26, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>
> > You're doing object-oriented design when your objects have
> > relationships to each other, in C++ class hierarchies, in other
> > languages interfaces.
>
> I accept that object-oriented programming (as Stroustrup defines it,
> at least) includes run-time polymorphism.  But let's say I do my design,
> look for places where a "is-a" relationship is the best solution --
> and I don't find any. Am I suddenly not doing object-oriented design?
>
> Because that's what happens to me in practice. Less than 5% of my
> classes do run-time polymorphism.
>
Let's say you examine your program, and find that there are no logical
subroutines you can break out of the main loop. Are you still doing
structured programming?
>
> > And C++ doesn't buy you much.
>
> I work in both languages and I can assure you: it *does* make a big
> difference. Not the inheritence, but all the other features.
>
I don't find it does.

I find that typically my programs are structured as arrays of arrays
of arrays, mainly of structures at the upper levels. Where I need more
complex structures, quite often special links are needed for
performance, or for the algorithm. So in both cases the use of fancy
containers doesn't make much sense. I'm not saying it wouldn't help if
there was a way of avoiding the little realloc dance when resizing a C
array, but this small benefit doesn't justify all the complexity in
interfacing that use of containers introduces. I know that in the C++
stl you can do everything with iterators, the problem is that most
programmers aren't disciplined enough to use the system.

--
Basic Algorithms: in C
http://www.malcolmmclean.site11.com/www

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#12280 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2011-10-30 21:22 +1300
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<9h4fpjFgamU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#12277
On 10/30/11 09:07 PM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Oct 29, 8:56 am, Jorgen Grahn<grahn+n...@snipabacken.se>  wrote:
>> On Wed, 2011-10-26, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>
>>> And C++ doesn't buy you much.
>>
>> I work in both languages and I can assure you: it *does* make a big
>> difference. Not the inheritence, but all the other features.
>>
> I don't find it does.
>
> I find that typically my programs are structured as arrays of arrays
> of arrays, mainly of structures at the upper levels. Where I need more
> complex structures, quite often special links are needed for
> performance, or for the algorithm. So in both cases the use of fancy
> containers doesn't make much sense. I'm not saying it wouldn't help if
> there was a way of avoiding the little realloc dance when resizing a C
> array, but this small benefit doesn't justify all the complexity in
> interfacing that use of containers introduces. I know that in the C++
> stl you can do everything with iterators, the problem is that most
> programmers aren't disciplined enough to use the system.

Where is "all the complexity in interfacing" introduced when using a 
vector of whatever in place of a raw array?  As you state, the 
complexity is significantly reduced by automatic memory management.

You seem to do a good job of avoiding answering direct questions, so I'm 
curious to see if you reply.

-- 
Ian Collins

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#12284 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com>
Date2011-10-30 04:41 -0700
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<6cfd4656-f3d7-4314-9131-fca65ccea1b1@q16g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#12280
On Oct 30, 10:22 am, Ian Collins <ian-n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Where is "all the complexity in interfacing" introduced when using a
> vector of whatever in place of a raw array?  As you state, the
> complexity is significantly reduced by automatic memory management.
>
In C, typically functions that operate on a list will take a pointer
to an array of structures, and a count. There's then a loop from 0 to
count stepping through the array.

In C++ standard template library, the standard way is to pass in two
iterators, one to the start and one to the end of the sequence. The
iterator is then incremented until it equals the end point.

The C++ way is considerably more complicated, both in terms of what
the compiler is actually doing, and to use. The proof is that it's
very common to see functions written "incorrectly".

--
MiniBasic - a complete simple Basic interpreter, in C
http://www.malcolmmclean.site11.com/www

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#12286 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2011-10-30 08:40 -0400
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<j8jgk8$6hj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#12284
On 10/30/2011 07:41 AM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Oct 30, 10:22�am, Ian Collins <ian-n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Where is "all the complexity in interfacing" introduced when using a
>> vector of whatever in place of a raw array? �As you state, the
>> complexity is significantly reduced by automatic memory management.
>>
> In C, typically functions that operate on a list will take a pointer
> to an array of structures, and a count. There's then a loop from 0 to
> count stepping through the array.
> 
> In C++ standard template library, the standard way is to pass in two
> iterators, one to the start and one to the end of the sequence. The
> iterator is then incremented until it equals the end point.

You can write C that way, too; and the C++ standard library also
contains counted versions of most of the functions that take a range
delimited by two iterators. Example:

	std::copy_n(in_array, size, out_array)
-- 
James Kuyper

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