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Groups > comp.lang.c > #11845 > unrolled thread

Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation

Started byscs@eskimo.com (Steve Summit)
First post2011-10-18 00:00 +0000
Last post2011-10-27 00:18 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 291 — 52 participants

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  Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation scs@eskimo.com (Steve Summit) - 2011-10-18 00:00 +0000
    Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Uno <Uno@example.invalid> - 2011-10-18 05:20 -0600
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2011-11-11 23:51 +0000
    Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Dann Corbit <dcorbit@connx.com> - 2011-10-18 14:37 -0700
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-19 10:52 +1300
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "James" <no@spam.invalid> - 2011-10-18 16:47 -0700
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-19 00:02 -0700
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "Bill Davy" <Bill@SynectixLtd.com> - 2011-10-19 08:57 +0100
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-19 02:13 -0700
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Kleuskes & Moos <kleuske@somewhere.else.net> - 2011-10-19 13:41 +0000
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-20 00:04 -0700
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-10-19 15:32 +0000
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2011-10-19 09:57 -0700
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Frederick Williams <freddywilliams@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-19 20:46 +0100
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation 88888 dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-19 13:06 -0700
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-19 20:49 +0000
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2011-10-19 19:04 -0400
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation lovecreatesbeauty <lovecreatesbeauty@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 07:43 -0700
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Frederick Williams <freddywilliams@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-21 16:56 +0100
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "sadsailor" <overboard@the.oceans> - 2011-10-21 16:37 -0500
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-21 17:17 +0000
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2011-10-21 13:30 -0400
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-22 07:57 -0700
          Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) - 2011-10-22 15:51 +0000
          Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-22 18:19 +0000
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-23 08:00 +1300
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Frederick Williams <freddywilliams@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-23 15:39 +0100
          Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-23 05:55 -0700
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-10-23 21:30 +0100
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation blp@cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff) - 2011-10-23 14:27 -0700
          Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-23 10:28 -0400
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-23 08:36 -0700
              Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "Charles Richmond" <netnews@aquaporin4.com> - 2011-10-23 23:21 -0500
              Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "Charles Richmond" <netnews@aquaporin4.com> - 2011-10-23 23:21 -0500
              Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "Charles Richmond" <netnews@aquaporin4.com> - 2011-10-23 23:23 -0500
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-10-23 12:35 -0500
              Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-23 14:01 -0400
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2011-10-23 14:34 -0400
              Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2011-10-23 13:49 -0600
              Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-23 18:14 -0400
                Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-24 01:59 -0700
                  Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-24 06:25 -0400
                  Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-10-24 14:43 +0000
                    Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-24 09:01 -0700
                      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation André Gillibert <MetaEntropy.removeThis@gmail.com> - 2011-10-24 18:23 +0200
                      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-25 08:02 +1300
                      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-25 00:44 -0700
                      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-10-25 21:24 +0000
                        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-26 00:58 -0700
                          Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-26 23:21 +1300
                          OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-10-29 06:56 +0000
                            Re: OOP and C++ and C Markus Wichmann <nullplan@gmx.net> - 2011-10-29 21:18 +0200
                              Re: OOP and C++ and C nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-30 10:43 -0700
                                Re: OOP and C++ and C Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-31 02:26 -0700
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 08:43 -0700
                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-01 03:11 -0700
                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-01 08:17 -0700
                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-02 06:16 -0700
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2011-11-28 00:23 +0000
                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-27 23:57 -0800
                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-28 00:20 -0800
                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2011-11-29 23:36 +0000
                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-30 12:42 +1300
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-11-30 10:46 +0100
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2011-12-01 23:20 +0000
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-02 12:39 +1300
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-12-02 00:42 +0000
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-02 13:45 +1300
                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-12-02 00:57 +0000
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-12-02 08:49 +0100
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2011-12-02 17:45 +0000
                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-11-30 21:42 +0000
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-11-30 22:59 +0100
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C Quentin Pope <qp19433@hotmail.NOSPAM.com> - 2011-11-30 22:09 +0000
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-01 11:20 +1300
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-12-01 00:21 +0100
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-01 01:22 -0800
                                                  Re: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis and programming JohnF <john@please.see.sig.for.email.com> - 2011-12-01 10:18 +0000
                                                    Re: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis and programming Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-01 04:57 -0800
                                                      Re: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis and programming JohnF <john@please.see.sig.for.email.com> - 2011-12-02 08:34 +0000
                                                    Re: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis and programming Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2011-12-01 13:38 +0000
                                                      Re: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis and programming 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-01 13:47 -0800
                                                      Re: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis and programming JohnF <john@please.see.sig.for.email.com> - 2011-12-02 08:10 +0000
                                                    Re: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis and programming Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-12-02 17:48 +0000
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-30 18:35 -0500
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-12-01 02:53 -0800
                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-12-01 07:07 -0500
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-12-04 00:35 +0000
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2011-12-03 18:28 -0800
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-11-30 14:10 -0800
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-12-01 00:15 +0100
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-01 12:21 +1300
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-12-01 00:29 +0100
                                                  Operator overloading extensions (Was re: OOP and C++ and C) "Joel C. Salomon" <joelcsalomon@gmail.com> - 2011-12-01 15:50 -0500
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-12-01 07:38 +0100
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-01 20:26 +1300
                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-30 18:37 -0500
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-01 02:05 -0800
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-12-01 07:09 -0500
                                Re: OOP and C++ and C Markus Wichmann <nullplan@gmx.net> - 2011-11-01 10:13 +0100
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-01 23:02 +1300
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-01 04:04 -0700
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-01 08:45 -0700
                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-01 09:25 -0700
                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-01 09:30 -0700
                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-01 12:59 -0400
                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-01 10:30 -0700
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-01 14:33 -0400
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-01 13:10 -0700
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-01 16:37 -0400
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-01 13:44 -0700
                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-01 21:03 -0400
                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-11-01 16:26 -0700
                                Re: OOP and C++ and C Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-11-03 02:38 +0000
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 22:53 -0400
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-03 16:03 +1300
                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-30 01:07 -0700
                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-30 21:22 +1300
                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-30 04:41 -0700
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-30 08:40 -0400
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-30 10:56 -0700
                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-31 03:03 -0700
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-31 02:59 -0700
                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-30 07:56 -0700
                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-30 08:13 -0700
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-10-30 18:05 +0000
                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-30 11:38 -0700
                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-31 07:56 +1300
                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-31 01:11 -0700
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-31 21:34 +1300
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 08:36 -0700
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-01 07:37 +1300
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-31 06:55 -0400
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-31 06:08 -0700
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-31 10:42 -0400
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-31 07:56 -0700
                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-31 12:54 -0400
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-01 07:47 +1300
                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-10-30 19:46 +0000
                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-31 01:49 -0700
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-10-31 15:15 +0000
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 09:01 -0700
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-10-31 18:04 +0000
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 11:56 -0700
                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-01 03:03 +0000
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-31 09:18 -0700
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 09:39 -0700
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-31 09:54 -0700
                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 10:11 -0700
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-01 03:22 +0000
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-31 23:08 -0700
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 09:04 -0700
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-31 09:26 -0700
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 09:37 -0700
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-31 10:01 -0700
                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-01 07:59 +1300
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 09:52 -0700
                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 17:25 -0700
                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-01 21:44 +0000
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 07:07 -0700
                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-30 08:33 -0700
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-10-30 18:00 +0000
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-31 03:20 -0700
                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-10-31 20:07 +0000
                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 13:48 -0700
                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-31 22:18 -0400
                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-01 03:59 +0000
                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 22:52 -0700
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-01 04:27 -0700
                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-01 18:56 +0000
                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-01 12:59 -0700
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-01 16:46 -0400
                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-01 14:16 -0700
                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-01 21:35 -0400
                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 08:22 -0700
                                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-02 10:14 -0700
                                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 12:09 -0700
                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) jameskuyper <jameskuyper@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 13:11 -0700
                                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 15:01 -0700
                                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-02 22:11 +0000
                                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 15:32 -0700
                                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-02 21:31 -0400
                                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-03 07:41 +0000
                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 19:58 -0400
                                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2011-11-02 21:45 +0000
                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-02 14:26 +0000
                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-02 11:07 -0400
                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-03 12:51 +0000
                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-03 06:36 -0700
                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-03 14:34 +0000
                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-03 08:41 -0700
                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-04 03:30 +0000
                                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-04 09:03 -0700
                                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-04 09:24 -0700
                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-04 09:44 -0700
                                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-09 00:06 +0000
                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-09 00:03 -0800
                                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-09 10:57 +0000
                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-10 09:13 -0800
                                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-11-10 11:05 -0800
                                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-10 13:23 -0800
                                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-10 14:47 -0800
                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-11-11 00:17 +0000
                                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-11 09:29 -0800
                                                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-11 18:05 +0000
                                                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-11-11 18:19 +0000
                                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-11 13:28 -0500
                                                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-11-11 18:37 +0000
                                                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-11 14:13 -0500
                                                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-11 11:17 -0800
                                                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-11 21:49 +0000
                                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-11-11 22:11 +0000
                                                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-11 14:19 -0800
                                                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-12 02:50 +0000
                                                                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-12 01:44 -0800
                                                                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-12 17:54 +0000
                                                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-12 11:38 -0800
                                                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-14 02:36 -0800
                                                                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-14 16:01 +0000
                                                                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 10:40 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-14 18:36 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 11:51 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 12:08 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-14 20:25 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 13:11 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-14 21:46 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 14:56 -0800
                                                                                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-14 23:01 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 15:50 -0800
                                                                                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-15 02:48 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-15 08:52 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2011-11-14 20:15 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-15 02:48 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 14:17 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-14 22:38 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C blp@cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff) - 2011-11-14 14:45 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 15:21 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-14 23:40 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 15:59 -0800
                                                                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-11-14 12:16 -0600
                                                                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2011-11-14 18:25 +0000
                                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-11 14:15 -0800
                                                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-11 23:53 +0000
                                                                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-11 16:16 -0800
                                                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-11 19:53 +0000
                                                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-11 12:02 -0800
                                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-14 02:05 -0800
                                                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 08:36 -0800
                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-11-10 17:00 -0800
                                                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-11 04:53 +0000
                                                                      Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-11 09:27 -0800
                                                                        Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-12 04:27 +0000
                                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-10 23:00 +0000
                                                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-10 15:10 -0800
                                                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-11 03:30 +0000
                                                              Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-11 00:41 -0800
                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-11-12 05:14 +0000
                                                            Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2011-11-21 02:39 -0500
                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-10-30 11:00 -0700
                                Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-10-30 19:09 +0100
                                  Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-30 11:51 -0700
                                    Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-10-30 20:36 +0000
                    Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2011-10-24 12:16 -0400
                      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-10-25 20:30 +0000
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2011-10-24 15:52 -0400
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2011-10-24 21:40 -0400
          Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201110.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2011-10-26 06:13 +0200
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-26 01:34 -0700
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2011-10-26 09:47 -0400
              Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201110.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2011-10-27 04:54 +0200
                Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation luser- -droog <mijoryx@yahoo.com> - 2011-10-27 11:27 -0700
    Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation AK <anoopkammaran@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 00:01 -0700
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation lovecreatesbeauty <lovecreatesbeauty@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 07:50 -0700
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2011-10-20 11:07 -0400
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-20 16:31 +0000
          Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-10-20 11:13 -0700
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-20 11:43 -0700
            Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-10-21 08:35 +0000
              Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-21 02:45 -0700
                Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation André Gillibert <MetaEntropy.removeThis@gmail.com> - 2011-10-24 18:41 +0200
                  Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-10-25 14:06 +0000
                    Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-25 10:13 -0700
          Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "Charles Richmond" <netnews@aquaporin4.com> - 2011-10-20 21:58 -0500
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "Charles Richmond" <netnews@aquaporin4.com> - 2011-10-20 21:52 -0500
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-10-23 10:32 +0200
          Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-23 05:58 -0700
    Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation lovecreatesbeauty <lovecreatesbeauty@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 07:40 -0700
    Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-25 10:19 -0700
      Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-26 01:53 -0700
        Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-26 14:40 -0700
          Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-10-27 00:18 -0700

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#12296 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

Fromnroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com>
Date2011-10-30 10:56 -0700
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<9d477247-c9c7-4f61-930a-57806df1dc40@f3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#12284
On Oct 30, 4:41 am, Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mcle...@btinternet.com>
wrote:
> On Oct 30, 10:22 am, Ian Collins <ian-n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Where is "all the complexity in interfacing" introduced when using a
> > vector of whatever in place of a raw array?  As you state, the
> > complexity is significantly reduced by automatic memory management.
>

Couple things on this...

> In C, typically functions that operate on a list will take a pointer
> to an array of structures, and a count. There's then a loop from 0 to
> count stepping through the array.

Why would a C developer write a function that operates on a list but
takes an array?

> In C++ standard template library, the standard way is to pass in two
> iterators, one to the start and one to the end of the sequence. The
> iterator is then incremented until it equals the end point.

This is if you're writing function templates that need to operate on
generic containers.  If you are writing a function that operates on a
particular instance you generally simply pass the container by
reference and use its members to get the information you need to
perform your algorithm.

> The C++ way is considerably more complicated, both in terms of what
> the compiler is actually doing, and to use. The proof is that it's
> very common to see functions written "incorrectly".

Please explain the former claim.  What that the compiler is doing is
more complicated here?  I would tend to intuit that it would be
exactly the opposite as the compiler would generally translate the
index version into the iterator version.

As to more complicated to use, I just don't see it.  Can you give an
example of an incorrectly written function?

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#12330 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromNick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com>
Date2011-10-31 03:03 -0700
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<41e235db-8af7-4a95-9cea-7c67844532c5@hj4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#12296
On Oct 30, 5:56 pm, nroberts <roberts.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 30, 4:41 am, Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mcle...@btinternet.com>

> > In C, typically functions that operate on a list will take a pointer
> > to an array of structures, and a count. There's then a loop from 0 to
> > count stepping through the array.
>
> Why would a C developer write a function that operates on a list but
> takes an array?

people use the term "list" in "shopping list" mode. The mean a
collection of things (possibly ordered) not necessarily the CS term
"linked list". In a sense they are being /more/ abstract!

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#12329 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromNick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com>
Date2011-10-31 02:59 -0700
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<9d3a55b1-1b17-47c4-a06d-69616d6e2a8d@m19g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#12284
On Oct 30, 11:41 am, Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mcle...@btinternet.com>
wrote:
> On Oct 30, 10:22 am, Ian Collins <ian-n...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > Where is "all the complexity in interfacing" introduced when using a
> > vector of whatever in place of a raw array?  As you state, the
> > complexity is significantly reduced by automatic memory management.
>
> In C, typically functions that operate on a list will take a pointer
> to an array of structures, and a count. There's then a loop from 0 to
> count stepping through the array.

you can do the same with a C++ vector except you don't have to
explicitly pass the size.

> In C++ standard template library, the standard way is to pass in two
> iterators, one to the start and one to the end of the sequence. The
> iterator is then incremented until it equals the end point.
>
> The C++ way is considerably more complicated, both in terms of what
> the compiler is actually doing, and to use. The proof is that it's
> very common to see functions written "incorrectly".
>

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#12288 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromNick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com>
Date2011-10-30 07:56 -0700
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<08cbb555-c844-4b6b-9a45-8dd78be73033@y36g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#12277
On Oct 30, 8:07 am, Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mcle...@btinternet.com>
wrote:
> On Oct 29, 8:56 am, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+n...@snipabacken.se> wrote:> On Wed, 2011-10-26, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>
> > > You're doing object-oriented design when your objects have
> > > relationships to each other, in C++ class hierarchies, in other
> > > languages interfaces.
>
> > I accept that object-oriented programming (as Stroustrup defines it,
> > at least) includes run-time polymorphism.  But let's say I do my design,
> > look for places where a "is-a" relationship is the best solution --
> > and I don't find any. Am I suddenly not doing object-oriented design?
>
> > Because that's what happens to me in practice. Less than 5% of my
> > classes do run-time polymorphism.
>
> Let's say you examine your program, and find that there are no logical
> subroutines you can break out of the main loop. Are you still doing
> structured programming?
>
> > > And C++ doesn't buy you much.
>
> > I work in both languages and I can assure you: it *does* make a big
> > difference. Not the inheritence, but all the other features.
>
> I don't find it does.
>
> I find that typically my programs are structured as arrays of arrays
> of arrays, mainly of structures at the upper levels.

what? How can your *program* be structured as "arrays of arrays...".
My programs are hierarchies of function calls. Nearly a tree but most
likely a DAG. Did you mean your data structures are strcts containing
arrays? Seems very limited.


> Where I need more
> complex structures, quite often special links are needed for
> performance, or for the algorithm. So in both cases the use of fancy
> containers doesn't make much sense.

the STL containers have pretty good performance.


> I'm not saying it wouldn't help if
> there was a way of avoiding the little realloc dance when resizing a C
> array, but this small benefit doesn't justify all the complexity in
> interfacing that use of containers introduces.

*what* compilcation.

   int a [10];
   int b [10];
   a[0] = 27;
   a[1] = a[2];
   memcpy (b, a, 10);

   std::vector<int> v1(10);
   std::vector<int> v2(10);
   v1[0] = 27;
   v1[1] = v1[2];
   memcpy (&v2[0], &v1[0], 10);

I don't see the problem.


> I know that in the C++
> stl you can do everything with iterators, the problem is that most
> programmers aren't disciplined enough to use the system.

but you don't have to. Why does it matter if they don't?

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#12290 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com>
Date2011-10-30 08:13 -0700
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<3d3b55f0-8b76-42c3-aa18-c1d34afd7dcf@h5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#12288
On Oct 30, 4:56 pm, Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nos...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> On Oct 30, 8:07 am, Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mcle...@btinternet.com>
>
> > I know that in the C++
> > stl you can do everything with iterators, the problem is that most
> > programmers aren't disciplined enough to use the system.
>
> but you don't have to. Why does it matter if they don't?
>
Think of the data elements as plugs and the functions as sockets.

Not every plug will fit every socket. As you multiply plugs and
sockets, the system gradually becomes harder and harder to understand,
use, and change.

That's why the standard template library tries to be a sort of adapter
that will hold any plug. But the system only works if everyone writes
all their functions to take iterators. In practice, people don't, for
a variety of reasons. So you end up with an even more complicated
welter of plugs and sockets than you had before.

--
C programming resources: Basic Algorithms now available in both print
and electronic editions
http://www.malcolmmclean.site11.com/www

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#12299 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2011-10-30 18:05 +0000
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<0.03a3248a4c973b01bd93.20111030180531GMT.87mxcifj84.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#12290
Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> writes:

> On Oct 30, 4:56 pm, Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nos...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> On Oct 30, 8:07 am, Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mcle...@btinternet.com>
>>
>> > I know that in the C++
>> > stl you can do everything with iterators, the problem is that most
>> > programmers aren't disciplined enough to use the system.
>>
>> but you don't have to. Why does it matter if they don't?
>>
> Think of the data elements as plugs and the functions as sockets.
>
> Not every plug will fit every socket. As you multiply plugs and
> sockets, the system gradually becomes harder and harder to understand,
> use, and change.
>
> That's why the standard template library tries to be a sort of adapter
> that will hold any plug. But the system only works if everyone writes
> all their functions to take iterators. In practice, people don't, for
> a variety of reasons. So you end up with an even more complicated
> welter of plugs and sockets than you had before.

How does C solve this problem of having a great may data types and badly
written (i.e. overly specific) function interfaces?

<snip>
-- 
Ben.

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#12303 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com>
Date2011-10-30 11:38 -0700
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<2b7e90ad-415d-4b18-a0bc-17f79054f560@p16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#12299
On Oct 30, 8:05 pm, Ben Bacarisse <ben.use...@bsb.me.uk> wrote:
> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mcle...@btinternet.com> writes:
>
> How does C solve this problem of having a great may data types and badly
> written (i.e. overly specific) function interfaces?
>
It doesn't really solve the problem. One of the most dangerous
features of C is the ability to typedef a basic type to something
like, say DWORD. Then you find yourself rewriting perfectly good code,
just because someone decided to put DWORDs where they really meant
"int", and the code no longer runs under the particular operating
system where DWORDs are used.

But it alleviates it, because it's easy to write a function that
operates on lists (a list is an ordered collection, usually of like
items) as taking an array and a count. It's hard to do anything
fancier, like wrapping the list into a structure with a "length"
member, creating a linked list, or semi-hardcoding the length of the
array with a preprocessor define. So the plugs might not fit the
sockets, but at least all the sockets are set up in a similar way.

Once you start allowing containers, that simplicity goes.

--
Lots of programming resources
http://www.malcolmmclean.site11.com/www


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#12304 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2011-10-31 07:56 +1300
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<9h5kvkFgakU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#12303
On 10/31/11 07:38 AM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Oct 30, 8:05 pm, Ben Bacarisse<ben.use...@bsb.me.uk>  wrote:
>> Malcolm McLean<malcolm.mcle...@btinternet.com>  writes:
>>
>> How does C solve this problem of having a great may data types and badly
>> written (i.e. overly specific) function interfaces?
>>
> It doesn't really solve the problem. One of the most dangerous
> features of C is the ability to typedef a basic type to something
> like, say DWORD. Then you find yourself rewriting perfectly good code,
> just because someone decided to put DWORDs where they really meant
> "int", and the code no longer runs under the particular operating
> system where DWORDs are used.

Conditionally typedef depending on the platform?

> But it alleviates it, because it's easy to write a function that
> operates on lists (a list is an ordered collection, usually of like
> items) as taking an array and a count. It's hard to do anything
> fancier, like wrapping the list into a structure with a "length"
> member, creating a linked list, or semi-hardcoding the length of the
> array with a preprocessor define. So the plugs might not fit the
> sockets, but at least all the sockets are set up in a similar way.
>
> Once you start allowing containers, that simplicity goes.

Once again, how?  Is

void f( std::vector<int>& );

more complex than

void f( int*, size_t );

?

With a container, the size information is embedded, no need to pass a 
count (which you would have to manually track).  From where I sit, the 
container removes at least two bits of complexity: you don't have to 
track a size and you don't have to worry about a null pointer.

-- 
Ian Collins

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#12323 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com>
Date2011-10-31 01:11 -0700
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<04f0a91d-abd6-4520-82ca-8535d876bf62@l5g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#12304
On Oct 30, 8:56 pm, Ian Collins <ian-n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Once again, how?  Is
>
> void f( std::vector<int>& );
>
> more complex than
>
> void f( int*, size_t );
>
> ?
>
> With a container, the size information is embedded, no need to pass a
> count (which you would have to manually track).  From where I sit, the
> container removes at least two bits of complexity: you don't have to
> track a size and you don't have to worry about a null pointer.
>
You have to use std::vectors everywhere with the C++ version, if you
want to call f. You have to use arrays of ints everywhere with the C
version if you want to do the same.

The C situation will happen, the C++ situation won't.

Snippets don't really illustrate the problem very well. Computer
programs begin to break down when complexity gets beyond a certain
level, and a human can no longer keep track of all the variables and
types within the program.

Tagging an array with a size member is a genuine advantage of a
vector. The cost is that it becomes harder to see what the compiler is
doing. Another problem is that, often, code ends up being written with
vect.size() rather than N, which makes the expressions unreadable.
Loss of the null pointer isn't such an advantage. I've seen C++ code
with "null objects" to get round the problem that sometimes things are
missing and we need to express "not there".

--
C programming resources
http://www.malcolmmclean.site11.com/www

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#12324 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2011-10-31 21:34 +1300
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<9h74skF67tU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#12323
On 10/31/11 09:11 PM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Oct 30, 8:56 pm, Ian Collins<ian-n...@hotmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>> Once again, how?  Is
>>
>> void f( std::vector<int>&  );
>>
>> more complex than
>>
>> void f( int*, size_t );
>>
>> ?
>>
>> With a container, the size information is embedded, no need to pass a
>> count (which you would have to manually track).  From where I sit, the
>> container removes at least two bits of complexity: you don't have to
>> track a size and you don't have to worry about a null pointer.
>>
> You have to use std::vectors everywhere with the C++ version, if you
> want to call f. You have to use arrays of ints everywhere with the C
> version if you want to do the same.
>
> The C situation will happen, the C++ situation won't.

Eh?  If you want to call a function that requires a specific type, you 
have to use that type irrespective of the language.

> Snippets don't really illustrate the problem very well. Computer
> programs begin to break down when complexity gets beyond a certain
> level, and a human can no longer keep track of all the variables and
> types within the program.

Which is where encapsulation is the programmer's friend, it helps to 
reduce the complexity exposed to the programmer.

> Tagging an array with a size member is a genuine advantage of a
> vector. The cost is that it becomes harder to see what the compiler is
> doing.

In all but the most basic situations, the programmer lost track of what 
the compiler is doing when compilers grew optimisers.

> Another problem is that, often, code ends up being written with
> vect.size() rather than N, which makes the expressions unreadable.

You've lost me there, what is N?  If in the the size of an array, 
doesn't all the additional code used to track it do far more to make the 
code hard to follow?  container.size() is very idiomatic in C++, so its 
use doesn't cause any readability issues.  If you do want to simplify an 
expression, just an a "const size_t n = vect.size();" before the 
expression.  This is no worse than keeping taps of an array's length - 
you just keep table at the last moment!

> Loss of the null pointer isn't such an advantage. I've seen C++ code
> with "null objects" to get round the problem that sometimes things are
> missing and we need to express "not there".

You'll see kludges an any language!  Null objects are an abomination and 
anyone using them should be tarred and feathered by their peers.

-- 
Ian Collins

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#12355 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

Fromnroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com>
Date2011-10-31 08:36 -0700
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<3ea995c1-7cf4-4669-8508-4a11304844d8@r2g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#12324
On Oct 31, 1:34 am, Ian Collins <ian-n...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> You'll see kludges an any language!  Null objects are an abomination and
> anyone using them should be tarred and feathered by their peers.

Nonsense.  They are quite preferable to littering 'if (xx != 0)' all
over the place in a great number of situations.  Any time it is quite
common for an object to be non-existent and the behavior is always the
same, a null object encapsulates the situation quite nicely.  Client
code doesn't need to care, nor should it.

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#12390 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2011-11-01 07:37 +1300
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<9h886dFeluU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#12355
On 11/ 1/11 04:36 AM, nroberts wrote:
> On Oct 31, 1:34 am, Ian Collins<ian-n...@hotmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> You'll see kludges an any language!  Null objects are an abomination and
>> anyone using them should be tarred and feathered by their peers.
>
> Nonsense.  They are quite preferable to littering 'if (xx != 0)' all
> over the place in a great number of situations.  Any time it is quite
> common for an object to be non-existent and the behavior is always the
> same, a null object encapsulates the situation quite nicely.  Client
> code doesn't need to care, nor should it.

Very true, I was thinking "null references"!

-- 
Ian Collins

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#12336 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2011-10-31 06:55 -0400
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<j8lurh$3m0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#12323
On 10/31/2011 04:11 AM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Oct 30, 8:56�pm, Ian Collins <ian-n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Once again, how? �Is
>>
>> void f( std::vector<int>& );
>>
>> more complex than
>>
>> void f( int*, size_t );
>>
>> ?
>>
>> With a container, the size information is embedded, no need to pass a
>> count (which you would have to manually track). �From where I sit, the
>> container removes at least two bits of complexity: you don't have to
>> track a size and you don't have to worry about a null pointer.
>>
> You have to use std::vectors everywhere with the C++ version, if you
> want to call f. You have to use arrays of ints everywhere with the C
> version if you want to do the same.

That's why most C++ algorithms take iterator arguments rather than
container arguments. An algorithm, once it's correctly expressed in
terms of iterators, can work equally well on the elements of an array of
double as on a std::vector<int> or a std::list<unsigned long>. You only
have to write the template once, no matter how the data's actually
stored (as long as the algorithm's iterator requirements are met).
-- 
James Kuyper

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#12343 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com>
Date2011-10-31 06:08 -0700
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<483e8349-dcd1-4e62-ae2c-6a0116b76dee@q16g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#12336
On Oct 31, 12:55 pm, James Kuyper <jameskuy...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> That's why most C++ algorithms take iterator arguments rather than
> container arguments. An algorithm, once it's correctly expressed in
> terms of iterators, can work equally well on the elements of an array of
> double as on a std::vector<int> or a std::list<unsigned long>. You only
> have to write the template once, no matter how the data's actually
> stored (as long as the algorithm's iterator requirements are met).
>
But not everyone uses the iterator system consistently.

You need two requirements. You need the iterators to be set up
correctly. But you also need functions like add and divide to be
defined correctly. The mean of a list of integers is not usually an
integer.

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#12348 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2011-10-31 10:42 -0400
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<4EAEB3C4.3010802@verizon.net>
In reply to#12343
On 10/31/2011 09:08 AM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Oct 31, 12:55 pm, James Kuyper <jameskuy...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> That's why most C++ algorithms take iterator arguments rather than
>> container arguments. An algorithm, once it's correctly expressed in
>> terms of iterators, can work equally well on the elements of an array of
>> double as on a std::vector<int> or a std::list<unsigned long>. You only
>> have to write the template once, no matter how the data's actually
>> stored (as long as the algorithm's iterator requirements are met).
>>
> But not everyone uses the iterator system consistently.

"Not everyone uses X consistently" is a fairly accurate statement for
just about any X.  It's a problem with everything, and is not specific
to C++ iterators.

> You need two requirements. You need the iterators to be set up
> correctly. But you also need functions like add and divide to be
> defined correctly. The mean of a list of integers is not usually an
> integer.

That's true; which is why a C++ algorithm that performed a generic mean
calculation would have to templated by the type to be used for
calculating the mean. It would have to be the user's responsibility to
choose that type in a way that allows the expressions "sum += *iterator"
and "sum /= count" to do what he wants done.

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#12364 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com>
Date2011-10-31 07:56 -0700
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<9e4e07c9-8941-4840-82ba-495ee4c9aba7@f27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#12348
On Oct 31, 4:42 pm, James Kuyper <jameskuy...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 10/31/2011 09:08 AM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>
> "Not everyone uses X consistently" is a fairly accurate statement for
> just about any X.  It's a problem with everything, and is not specific
> to C++ iterators.
>
No, but it's particularly bad in this case, because the whole point of
the template system is to avoid having to rewrite code or "adapter"
routines (e.g. to convert an array of size_ts to an array of DWORDs).

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#12372 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2011-10-31 12:54 -0400
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<4EAED2D2.407@verizon.net>
In reply to#12364
On 10/31/2011 10:56 AM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Oct 31, 4:42 pm, James Kuyper <jameskuy...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On 10/31/2011 09:08 AM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>
>> "Not everyone uses X consistently" is a fairly accurate statement for
>> just about any X.  It's a problem with everything, and is not specific
>> to C++ iterators.
>>
> No, but it's particularly bad in this case, because the whole point of
> the template system is to avoid having to rewrite code or "adapter"
> routines (e.g. to convert an array of size_ts to an array of DWORDs).

Yes, and if used properly, it achieves that goal. Like anything else, it
can be used improperly, a fact that's only worth bringing up in
connection with an argument that explains why you think that improper
use is more likely than it would be in corresponding C code.

Given how much more complicated the C code would have to be to implement
anything similar to the genericity of the C++ code, and the
corresponding lack of type safety in any reasonable C approximation to
genericity, I find that rather unlikely. However, I'm willing to listen
to an argument to the contrary. I haven't seen that argument, just
assertions that it's true.

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#12391 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2011-11-01 07:47 +1300
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<9h88piFeluU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#12343
On 11/ 1/11 02:08 AM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Oct 31, 12:55 pm, James Kuyper<jameskuy...@verizon.net>  wrote:
>>
>> That's why most C++ algorithms take iterator arguments rather than
>> container arguments. An algorithm, once it's correctly expressed in
>> terms of iterators, can work equally well on the elements of an array of
>> double as on a std::vector<int>  or a std::list<unsigned long>. You only
>> have to write the template once, no matter how the data's actually
>> stored (as long as the algorithm's iterator requirements are met).
>>
> But not everyone uses the iterator system consistently.

But the C++ standard library does and that's what matters.

> You need two requirements. You need the iterators to be set up
> correctly. But you also need functions like add and divide to be
> defined correctly. The mean of a list of integers is not usually an
> integer.

The use of iterators for the C++ standard library algorithms is a sound 
and pragmatic design choice.  It is sound because anything that behaves 
like an iterator can be used, so for example we can use std::sort on an 
array as well as a C++ container.  It was pragmatic because early 
compilers did not support template parameters that are templates, so a 
container couldn't have been used as a template parameter

-- 
Ian Collins

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#12308 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2011-10-30 19:46 +0000
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<0.4e3119b8f592df60265f.20111030194632GMT.87bosyfejr.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#12303
Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> writes:

> On Oct 30, 8:05 pm, Ben Bacarisse <ben.use...@bsb.me.uk> wrote:
>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mcle...@btinternet.com> writes:
>>
>> How does C solve this problem of having a great may data types and badly
>> written (i.e. overly specific) function interfaces?
>>
> It doesn't really solve the problem. One of the most dangerous
> features of C is the ability to typedef a basic type to something
> like, say DWORD. Then you find yourself rewriting perfectly good code,
> just because someone decided to put DWORDs where they really meant
> "int", and the code no longer runs under the particular operating
> system where DWORDs are used.
>
> But it alleviates it, because it's easy to write a function that
> operates on lists (a list is an ordered collection, usually of like
> items) as taking an array and a count. It's hard to do anything
> fancier, like wrapping the list into a structure with a "length"
> member, creating a linked list, or semi-hardcoding the length of the
> array with a preprocessor define. So the plugs might not fit the
> sockets, but at least all the sockets are set up in a similar way.
>
> Once you start allowing containers, that simplicity goes.

Best just to say I disagree, in that his does not match my experience
with C++.  In my limited experience, as the types proliferate, C++
starts to win out big time.

Some code might clarify things.  You might want to sketch a situation
with lots of "plugs and sockets" which gets more complex hen written in
C++.

-- 
Ben.

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#12328 — Re: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com>
Date2011-10-31 01:49 -0700
SubjectRe: OOP and C++ and C (was Re: Dennis Ritchie -- An Appreciation)
Message-ID<efbe29b9-cacc-49d8-b93c-22312c78d060@j20g2000vby.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#12308
On Oct 30, 9:46 pm, Ben Bacarisse <ben.use...@bsb.me.uk> wrote:
> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mcle...@btinternet.com> writes:
>
> Some code might clarify things.  You might want to sketch a situation
> with lots of "plugs and sockets" which gets more complex hen written in
> C++.
>

I'm not sure I've even got the syntax right, it's so long since I did
this, but the root of the problem goes something like this

template <class Iterator, class numeric>
<numeric> standard_deviation( Iterator begin, Iterator end)
{
  while(begin !- end)
  {
    /* code here */
    ++begin;
  }
  /* There's something  wrong with out standard deviation, so I want
to call a tried and tested function to get the mean, which is foo ()
*/
  foo();
  /* The problem is that, even though under the bonnet I've just been
passed a double *, the only way of calling foo() is to construct a
temporary vector */
}

temple <class numeric>
<numeric> foo( std:vector<numeric> &list )
{
}

In C, you can have the problem that we might have floats or doubles or
long doubles. The whole point of the template idea is that you only
have to write the routines once. But you need iron tight discipline to
achieve this.

--
C programming resources
http://www.malcolmmclean.site11.com/www

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