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Groups > comp.lang.c > #401667 > unrolled thread

Official list of top C annoyances

Started byfir <profesor.fir@gmail.com>
First post2026-09-06 15:45 +0200
Last post2026-10-05 04:32 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 496 — 24 participants

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Contents

  Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-06 15:45 +0200
    Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-06 15:52 +0200
    Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-06 16:52 +0100
      Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-06 21:41 +0200
        Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-07 09:37 +0200
          Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-07 11:35 +0100
            Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-07 13:15 +0200
              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-07 13:55 +0100
                Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-07 15:24 +0200
                Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-07 15:33 +0200
                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-07 16:34 +0100
                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-08 00:50 +0200
                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-08 00:35 +0100
                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-07 17:43 -0600
                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-07 16:52 -0700
                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-09-09 15:24 +0800
                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 10:18 +0200
                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-09-09 20:16 +0800
                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 14:31 +0200
                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 14:37 +0200
                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-09-09 21:37 +0800
                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-18 09:38 +0200
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-09-18 17:42 +0800
                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-08 03:11 +0200
                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-08 16:40 +0000
                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-08 20:08 +0100
                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-09 09:35 +0200
                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-09 10:18 +0200
                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-09 12:32 +0100
                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-09 14:30 +0200
                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-09 15:09 +0100
                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-09 16:58 +0200
                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-09 18:34 +0100
                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-09 18:37 +0000
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-09 20:12 +0100
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-09 22:11 +0200
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-09 21:15 +0000
                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-09 23:37 +0200
                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-09 21:39 +0200
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-09 21:39 +0100
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-10 09:07 +0200
                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 14:41 -0700
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-09 23:31 +0100
                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-09 15:10 +0000
                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-08 09:25 +0200
                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-09 09:59 +0200
                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-09 10:35 +0200
                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-09 11:35 +0200
                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-09 14:43 +0200
                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 14:08 -0700
                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 14:14 -0700
                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-11 09:16 +0200
                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-09-14 19:14 +0000
                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-09-18 08:29 -0700
                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 02:45 -0700
                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-09 15:07 +0200
                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-09 07:14 -0600
                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-09 15:31 +0200
                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-09 07:41 -0600
                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 15:58 +0200
                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-09 08:05 -0600
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 16:13 +0200
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 16:29 -0700
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances "Johann \"Myrkraverk\" Oskarsson" <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-09-18 10:23 +0800
                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 16:10 +0200
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 16:19 +0200
                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-09 17:02 +0200
                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-09 15:11 +0100
                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-09 08:25 -0600
                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-09 15:53 +0100
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 17:42 +0200
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 17:53 +0200
                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 18:03 +0200
                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 18:19 +0200
                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 18:49 +0200
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 19:16 +0200
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-09 15:48 +0000
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-09 18:38 +0100
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-10 09:11 +0200
                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-09 15:04 +0000
                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-09 17:12 +0200
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances "Johann \"Myrkraverk\" Oskarsson" <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-09-09 23:59 +0800
                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 15:30 -0700
                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-10 06:50 +0200
                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 15:13 -0700
                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2026-09-09 15:16 +0100
                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 15:43 -0700
                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-10 07:16 +0200
                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-08 00:02 +0000
                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-08 12:47 +0100
                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-09 01:59 +0000
                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-09 10:26 +0200
                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-09 19:12 +0100
                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2026-09-09 21:01 +0200
                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-09 21:45 +0200
                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-09 21:18 +0100
                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-10 09:32 +0200
                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-09 23:26 +0200
                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-09 23:30 +0100
                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-10 08:45 +0200
                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-10 13:09 +0100
                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 14:37 +0200
                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 15:11 +0200
                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 15:16 +0200
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 15:28 +0200
                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-10 14:33 +0100
                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 15:51 +0200
                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 16:03 +0200
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-10 15:27 +0100
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 16:45 +0200
                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 16:59 +0200
                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-10 16:57 +0100
                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 18:18 +0200
                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-11 01:04 +0200
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 16:47 +0200
                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 16:54 +0200
                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 17:06 +0200
                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 17:15 +0200
                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-10 18:10 +0200
                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 18:21 +0200
                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-10 18:45 +0200
                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 18:56 +0200
                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 19:01 +0200
                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 19:20 +0200
                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 20:19 +0200
                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 20:25 +0200
                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 19:17 +0200
                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-11 09:21 +0200
                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-11 12:46 +0200
                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-11 14:13 +0200
                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2026-09-11 13:41 +0100
                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-11 14:55 +0200
                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-11 15:01 +0200
                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-11 15:04 +0200
                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-11 15:08 +0200
                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-11 15:13 +0200
                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-11 15:17 +0200
                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 21:02 +0200
                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 21:59 +0200
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 16:41 +0200
                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-10 09:48 +0200
                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-11 00:06 +0200
                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-10 23:48 +0100
                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 15:52 -0700
                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-11 00:48 +0100
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 17:11 -0700
                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-12 08:01 +0200
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 08:20 +0200
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 09:09 +0200
                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 12:35 +0200
                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 12:40 +0200
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-12 11:55 +0100
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 14:37 +0200
                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 14:49 +0200
                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 15:00 +0200
                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-12 14:24 +0100
                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 15:44 +0200
                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 15:53 +0200
                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 16:05 +0200
                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 16:16 +0200
                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 17:20 +0200
                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-12 17:08 +0100
                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-12 10:53 -0600
                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 19:23 +0200
                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-12 18:58 +0100
                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 20:35 +0200
                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 20:46 +0200
                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 20:49 +0200
                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-12 22:16 +0100
                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-12 15:40 -0600
                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 10:15 +0200
                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 10:27 +0200
                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 10:39 +0200
                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-13 10:30 +0100
                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 11:47 +0200
                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 11:53 +0200
                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-13 11:26 +0100
                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 12:37 +0200
                                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 12:47 +0200
                                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 12:55 +0200
                                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 13:11 +0200
                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-13 05:29 -0600
                                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 13:43 +0200
                                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 14:00 -0700
                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Ike Naar <ike@sdf.org> - 2026-09-13 10:53 +0000
                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-13 13:46 +0100
                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 15:21 +0200
                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-13 15:31 +0100
                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 16:34 +0200
                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 16:58 +0200
                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-13 18:01 +0100
                                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 21:14 +0200
                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 17:17 +0200
                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 17:23 +0200
                                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 17:27 +0200
                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 17:06 -0700
                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-14 15:01 +0000
                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-14 18:11 +0200
                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2026-09-14 20:21 +0200
                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-14 22:54 +0200
                                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-14 23:56 +0200
                                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-15 09:07 +0200
                                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-15 09:41 +0200
                                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-15 10:22 +0200
                                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-15 11:51 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-15 12:53 +0200
                                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-18 09:10 +0200
                                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-18 11:37 +0200
                                                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-19 09:03 +0200
                                                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-19 13:01 +0200
                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-05 01:57 +0000
                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-14 18:54 +0000
                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-14 22:55 +0200
                                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-14 21:03 +0000
                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-15 00:33 +0200
                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-13 10:50 +0200
                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 12:32 +0200
                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 20:15 +0200
                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 19:34 +0200
                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 19:39 +0200
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 15:23 +0200
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-12 07:45 -0600
                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-11 00:37 +0100
                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-13 18:55 +0000
                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-14 01:44 +0100
                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-14 07:41 +0000
                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-14 14:01 +0100
                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-14 14:09 +0100
                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-15 02:42 +0000
                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-14 23:41 +0100
                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-15 01:48 +0000
                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-15 07:39 +0200
                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-15 11:28 +0100
                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-15 14:54 +0000
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-15 21:56 +0100
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-15 21:34 +0000
                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-16 00:36 +0100
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-16 02:21 +0000
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-16 09:08 +0200
                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-16 11:21 +0100
                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-16 13:47 +0200
                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-16 15:20 +0100
                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-16 17:53 +0200
                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-17 00:36 +0100
                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-16 16:59 -0700
                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-17 01:49 +0100
                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-16 19:43 -0700
                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2026-09-17 09:24 +0200
                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-17 11:29 +0100
                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-17 15:06 -0700
                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-18 02:04 +0100
                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-17 18:19 -0700
                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-18 11:27 +0200
                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-18 11:21 +0100
                                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-18 13:17 +0200
                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-18 15:44 +0000
                                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-19 09:16 +0200
                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-09-18 12:55 +0000
                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-18 17:53 +0300
                                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-18 15:47 +0000
                                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-19 21:22 +0300
                                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-20 15:58 +0000
                                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-21 21:06 +0300
                                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-22 15:04 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-22 21:07 +0300
                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-18 15:41 +0000
                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-18 11:34 -0700
                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-17 12:52 +0200
                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-17 13:15 +0100
                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-17 15:16 +0200
                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-17 15:25 +0100
                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-17 17:05 +0200
                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-17 16:46 +0100
                                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-17 20:22 +0200
                                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-17 20:19 +0100
                                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2026-09-17 21:55 +0200
                                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-17 23:47 +0000
                                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2026-09-17 21:31 +0200
                                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-17 20:54 +0100
                                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-17 15:44 -0700
                                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-17 23:48 +0000
                                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances "Steven G. Kargl" <sgk@REMOVEtroutmask.apl.washington.edu> - 2026-09-18 00:04 +0000
                                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-18 01:34 +0100
                                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-17 17:50 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-18 17:45 +0300
                                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-18 15:28 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-18 18:34 +0300
                                                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-18 18:08 +0200
                                                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-18 11:26 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-09-18 20:39 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-19 13:10 +0200
                                                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-19 13:20 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-19 17:30 +0200
                                                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-19 09:38 +0200
                                                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-19 21:00 +0300
                                                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-20 10:17 +0200
                                                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-20 11:29 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-20 12:52 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-10-06 01:06 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-20 15:58 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-20 15:55 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-21 20:41 +0300
                                                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-09-22 01:53 +0800
                                                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-22 11:28 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-22 11:34 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-22 15:00 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2026-09-22 14:22 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2026-09-22 15:04 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-22 16:38 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-30 02:28 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-10-06 01:29 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-19 22:01 +0300
                                                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-18 20:28 +0000
                                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances "Steven G. Kargl" <sgk@REMOVEtroutmask.apl.washington.edu> - 2026-09-18 05:42 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-18 08:08 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-18 10:23 +0100
                                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-18 15:24 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-18 16:31 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-18 11:29 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-18 20:14 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-18 12:42 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2026-09-19 13:39 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-19 16:24 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances "Steven G. Kargl" <sgk@REMOVEtroutmask.apl.washington.edu> - 2026-09-19 00:19 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-19 02:06 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-18 20:20 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances "Steven G. Kargl" <sgk@REMOVEtroutmask.apl.washington.edu> - 2026-09-19 03:26 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-19 09:56 +0200
                                                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-19 11:08 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2026-09-19 13:25 +0200
                                                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-19 10:45 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-19 15:09 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-19 16:17 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-19 09:45 +0200
                                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-18 13:11 +0200
                                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-18 14:03 +0100
                                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-18 17:24 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-18 11:06 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-18 20:07 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-18 12:26 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-18 22:57 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-19 17:27 +0200
                                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-19 20:09 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-20 12:31 +0200
                                                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-20 12:42 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-20 15:08 +0200
                                                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-20 14:22 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-20 14:54 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-20 23:24 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-21 15:06 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-21 16:36 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-21 17:45 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-21 20:54 +0300
                                                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-22 15:02 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-22 21:02 +0300
                                                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-20 15:58 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-20 15:19 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-20 23:49 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-20 16:17 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-20 15:49 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-20 15:18 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-20 15:41 +0000
                                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2026-09-17 21:53 +0200
                                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-17 21:05 +0100
                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-17 14:38 +0000
                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-17 17:15 +0200
                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-17 16:33 +0000
                                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-17 20:26 +0200
                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-17 13:26 -0700
                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-17 13:25 -0700
                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-17 12:36 +0200
                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-17 13:03 +0100
                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-17 14:51 +0200
                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-17 14:32 +0100
                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-17 15:17 -0700
                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-17 15:24 -0700
                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-18 09:06 +0200
                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-18 02:08 -0700
                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-18 11:01 +0100
                                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-18 03:05 -0700
                                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-18 11:13 +0100
                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-16 17:33 +0000
                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-16 19:19 +0100
                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-16 18:34 +0000
                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-16 20:21 +0100
                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-16 13:16 +0000
                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-16 15:26 +0100
                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-16 15:58 +0000
                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-16 19:13 +0100
                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-16 18:30 +0000
                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-16 20:30 +0100
                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-16 21:16 +0100
                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-17 02:56 +0000
                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-30 02:32 +0000
                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-29 19:58 -0700
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-05 02:15 +0000
                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 03:22 +0000
                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 09:49 +0200
                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-14 11:27 +0100
                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 16:03 +0200
                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 16:15 +0200
                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-22 23:27 +0000
                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-23 01:01 +0100
                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-23 23:38 +0000
                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-24 02:00 +0100
                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-24 02:41 +0000
                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-23 20:23 -0700
                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-24 11:27 +0100
                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-24 23:54 +0000
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-25 01:23 +0100
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-25 03:47 +0000
                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-25 11:38 +0100
                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-26 02:49 +0000
                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-26 11:44 +0100
                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-26 14:03 +0100
                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-28 00:05 +0000
                                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 00:56 +0000
                                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-29 14:27 +0100
                                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-30 02:02 +0000
                                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-30 11:18 +0100
                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-09-30 13:37 +0000
                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 17:17 +0300
                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-09-30 14:39 +0000
                                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-30 22:39 +0000
                                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-10-01 15:23 -0700
                                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-02 02:38 +0000
                                                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-02 09:17 +0200
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-25 12:17 +0300
                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-25 11:31 +0100
                                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-26 02:34 +0000
                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-24 08:50 +0000
                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-24 11:31 +0200
                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-24 11:29 +0100
                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-25 21:09 +0000
                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-26 11:59 +0100
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-29 04:06 +0000
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 04:47 +0000
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-29 23:49 +0100
                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-30 12:19 +0000
                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-09 10:13 +0200
                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-09 10:38 +0200
                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-09 11:40 +0200
                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 12:05 +0200
                                Re: Official list of top C annoyances Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2026-09-09 15:23 +0100
                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-09 23:07 +0200
                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 15:52 -0700
                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 01:00 +0200
                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances "Johann \"Myrkraverk\" Oskarsson" <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-09-18 10:17 +0800
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-18 09:29 +0200
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2026-09-19 13:46 +0000
                                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-25 09:15 +0200
                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-10 06:16 +0200
                                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 14:38 +0200
                                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 18:35 +0200
                                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 18:36 +0200
                                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-10 10:11 +0200
                                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-11 00:48 +0200
                                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 03:18 +0000
                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-09-18 12:58 -0700
                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-22 23:21 +0000
                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 12:47 -0700
            Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-07 15:20 +0200
        Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-07 09:53 +0200
          Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-07 23:59 +0200
            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-07 16:04 -0600
      Re: Official list of top C annoyances "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-07 04:06 -0700
    Re: Official list of top C annoyances Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-09-07 20:05 +0800
      Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-07 15:32 +0200
    Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 12:59 +0200
      Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 13:09 +0200
        Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-08 14:15 +0200
          Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 14:35 +0200
            Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 14:49 +0200
              Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-08 16:05 +0200
                Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 16:18 +0200
                Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-08 09:45 -0600
                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-08 20:41 +0200
                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 12:39 -0700
                  Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 15:55 -0700
                    Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-08 18:02 -0600
                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 17:39 -0700
                        Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-08 18:47 -0600
                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 18:19 -0700
                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-08 19:24 -0600
                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 19:26 -0700
                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 03:25 +0200
                          Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-09 09:13 +0200
                            Re: Official list of top C annoyances Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-09 07:38 -0600
                              Re: Official list of top C annoyances "Johann \"Myrkraverk\" Oskarsson" <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-09-09 22:16 +0800
                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-09 09:02 +0200
                      Re: Official list of top C annoyances Jan van den Broek <balglaas@dds.nl> - 2026-09-09 12:50 +0000
                  And then we reached C# (was Re: Official list of top C annoyances) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-09 08:51 +0200
      Re: Official list of top C annoyances bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-08 14:54 +0100
        Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 16:10 +0200
    Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-25 14:22 +0200
    Re: Official list of top C annoyances fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-10-05 04:32 +0200

Page 15 of 25 — ← Prev page 1 … 13 14 [15] 16 17 … 25  Next page →


#402196

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2026-09-17 23:48 +0000
Message-ID<t%_qS.41250$oan4.36250@fx22.iad>
In reply to#402186
bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>On 17/09/2026 20:31, tTh wrote:
>> On 9/17/26 17:46, bart wrote:
>>>
>>> Somebody needs some a few lines of info from a program, but the tool 
>>> buries it in 1000 lines of output, and your suggestion is to just to 
>>> scroll up and down trying to find it?
>>>
>>> Anything but fix the problem!
>> 
>>     May be you can code a patch who fix the^Wyour problem, and
>>     send it to the Gcc team ? Any positive contribution is
>>     benefit to all of us.
>
>I'm not interested in gcc. I have my own solutions.

Then why do you keep harping on its purported defects?

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#402197

From"Steven G. Kargl" <sgk@REMOVEtroutmask.apl.washington.edu>
Date2026-09-18 00:04 +0000
Message-ID<118hv65$p5d3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#402186
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 20:54:35 +0100, bart wrote:
 
> Most command-line compilers give you version and help info when no 
> parameters follow. But at least it says something; try this:
> 
>    c:\c\as
> 
> and it apparently hangs (it's waiting for you type an assembly program 
> from the console!)
> 

Most people read (or at least skim) the documentation
that comes with the software they use.

% man as
...
     If you give 'as' no file names it attempts to read one
     input file from the 'as' standard input, which is normally
     your terminal.  You may have to type ctl-D to tell 'as'
     there is no more program to assemble.

HTH

-- 
steve

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#402199

Frombart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2026-09-18 01:34 +0100
Message-ID<118i0u5$pq3d$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#402197
On 18/09/2026 01:04, Steven G. Kargl wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 20:54:35 +0100, bart wrote:
>   
>> Most command-line compilers give you version and help info when no
>> parameters follow. But at least it says something; try this:
>>
>>     c:\c\as
>>
>> and it apparently hangs (it's waiting for you type an assembly program
>> from the console!)
>>
> 
> Most people read (or at least skim) the documentation
> that comes with the software they use.

Most people probably don't. They will try running such programs without 
input, as often that gives usage info.

'as' is more peculiar than most assemblers:

* It takes input from stdin as default

* The output, even on Windows, is a file called a.out

* If given two or more input files, these are literally concatenated 
into one ASM file. More typically there is one object file produced per file


> % man as

'man' doesn't exist on Windows. Using 'as --help' gives lots of 
complicated options that will mean little to some who has not used this 
before and simply wants to turn file.s into file.o.

This is my assembler for example when I type its name:

   c:\c>aa
   AA7 Assembler 29-Aug-2026
   Usage:
           aa filename[.asm]     # Assemble filename.asm to filename.exe
           aa -help              # Show other options

Simple, yes?





>       If you give 'as' no file names it attempts to read one
>       input file from the 'as' standard input, which is normally
>       your terminal.  You may have to type ctl-D to tell 'as'
>       there is no more program to assemble.
> 
> HTH
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#402200

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2026-09-17 17:50 -0700
Message-ID<118i1th$mqr3$5@kst.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#402199
bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
> On 18/09/2026 01:04, Steven G. Kargl wrote:
[...]
>> Most people read (or at least skim) the documentation
>> that comes with the software they use.
>
> Most people probably don't. They will try running such programs
> without input, as often that gives usage info.

[...]

You've seen how that approach fails.

There are valid reasons for the way "as" behaves.  Your assumptions
about how you think it *should* behave have led you astray.
I suggest that it is your approach, not "as", that needs to change.

Quick summary: You are trying to use tools that were originally
designed to be used in a Unix-like environment, and expecting them
to behave like native Windows tools.

I'll explain further if you ask, but only if you convince me that
you're actually interested in learning.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#402226

FromMichael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Date2026-09-18 17:45 +0300
Message-ID<20260918174509.00003538@yahoo.com>
In reply to#402200
On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 17:50:57 -0700
Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:

> bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
> > On 18/09/2026 01:04, Steven G. Kargl wrote:  
> [...]
> >> Most people read (or at least skim) the documentation
> >> that comes with the software they use.  
> >
> > Most people probably don't. They will try running such programs
> > without input, as often that gives usage info.  
> 
> [...]
> 
> You've seen how that approach fails.
> 
> There are valid reasons for the way "as" behaves. 

Well, if you consider compatibility with weird notion of "user
interface" of its original creator as a valid reason, then yes.
Even I accept it as valid.
Which does not make it less bad in the absolute sense.
Desire to give to user an option to accept an input from standard
input by itself is not unreasonable, bit it should be an option rather
than default.

> Your assumptions
> about how you think it *should* behave have led you astray.
> I suggest that it is your approach, not "as", that needs to change.
> 
> Quick summary: You are trying to use tools that were originally
> designed to be used in a Unix-like environment, and expecting them
> to behave like native Windows tools.
> 

as default is equelly bad design on both OSes.

> I'll explain further if you ask, but only if you convince me that
> you're actually interested in learning.
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#402234

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2026-09-18 15:28 +0000
Message-ID<pMcrS.84458$ZAne.6994@fx48.iad>
In reply to#402226
Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes:
>On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 17:50:57 -0700
>Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>> > On 18/09/2026 01:04, Steven G. Kargl wrote:  
>> [...]
>> >> Most people read (or at least skim) the documentation
>> >> that comes with the software they use.  
>> >
>> > Most people probably don't. They will try running such programs
>> > without input, as often that gives usage info.  
>> 
>> [...]
>> 
>> You've seen how that approach fails.
>> 
>> There are valid reasons for the way "as" behaves. 
>
>Well, if you consider compatibility with weird notion of "user
>interface" of its original creator as a valid reason, then yes.
>Even I accept it as valid.
>Which does not make it less bad in the absolute sense.
>Desire to give to user an option to accept an input from standard
>input by itself is not unreasonable, bit it should be an option rather
>than default.

That's your opinion.  That's not the unix philosophy.  Many
unix commands default to stdin if no file name is specified
(specifically to support streaming the output of one command
to the input of another).

By convention a single dash character may be specified
in place of a filename to specify stdin.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#402237

FromMichael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Date2026-09-18 18:34 +0300
Message-ID<20260918183409.000055ce@yahoo.com>
In reply to#402234
On Fri, 18 Sep 2026 15:28:21 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes:
> >On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 17:50:57 -0700
> >Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
> >  
> >> bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:  
> >> > On 18/09/2026 01:04, Steven G. Kargl wrote:    
> >> [...]  
> >> >> Most people read (or at least skim) the documentation
> >> >> that comes with the software they use.    
> >> >
> >> > Most people probably don't. They will try running such programs
> >> > without input, as often that gives usage info.    
> >> 
> >> [...]
> >> 
> >> You've seen how that approach fails.
> >> 
> >> There are valid reasons for the way "as" behaves.   
> >
> >Well, if you consider compatibility with weird notion of "user
> >interface" of its original creator as a valid reason, then yes.
> >Even I accept it as valid.
> >Which does not make it less bad in the absolute sense.
> >Desire to give to user an option to accept an input from standard
> >input by itself is not unreasonable, bit it should be an option
> >rather than default.  
> 
> That's your opinion.  That's not the unix philosophy.  Many
> unix commands default to stdin if no file name is specified
> (specifically to support streaming the output of one command
> to the input of another).

There is big difference between utilities like grep or sort and
something like as. Blindly treating them as the same is wrong.

> 
> By convention a single dash character may be specified
> in place of a filename to specify stdin.
> 

The latter is reasonable. What as does is not.



[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#402241

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2026-09-18 18:08 +0200
Message-ID<118jnm6$1cukm$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#402237
On 18/09/2026 17:34, Michael S wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Sep 2026 15:28:21 GMT
> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
> 
>> Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes:
>>> On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 17:50:57 -0700
>>> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>   
>>>> bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>>>> On 18/09/2026 01:04, Steven G. Kargl wrote:
>>>> [...]
>>>>>> Most people read (or at least skim) the documentation
>>>>>> that comes with the software they use.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most people probably don't. They will try running such programs
>>>>> without input, as often that gives usage info.
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>> You've seen how that approach fails.
>>>>
>>>> There are valid reasons for the way "as" behaves.
>>>
>>> Well, if you consider compatibility with weird notion of "user
>>> interface" of its original creator as a valid reason, then yes.
>>> Even I accept it as valid.
>>> Which does not make it less bad in the absolute sense.
>>> Desire to give to user an option to accept an input from standard
>>> input by itself is not unreasonable, bit it should be an option
>>> rather than default.
>>
>> That's your opinion.  That's not the unix philosophy.  Many
>> unix commands default to stdin if no file name is specified
>> (specifically to support streaming the output of one command
>> to the input of another).
> 
> There is big difference between utilities like grep or sort and
> something like as. Blindly treating them as the same is wrong.
> 
>>
>> By convention a single dash character may be specified
>> in place of a filename to specify stdin.
>>
> 
> The latter is reasonable. What as does is not.
> 

 From the manual page of "as" :

"""
as is primarily intended to assemble the output of the GNU C compiler 
"gcc" for use by the linker "ld".  Nevertheless, we've tried to make as 
assemble correctly everything that other assemblers for the same machine 
would assemble.  Any exceptions are documented explicitly.  This doesn't 
mean as always uses the same syntax as another assembler for the same 
architecture; for example, we know of several incompatible versions of 
680x0 assembly language syntax.

Each time you run as it assembles exactly one source program.  The 
source program is made up of one or more files.  (The standard input is 
also a file.)

You give as a command line that has zero or more input file names.  The 
input files are read (from left file name to right).  A command-line 
argument (in any position) that has no special meaning is taken to be an 
input file name.

If you give as no file names it attempts to read one input file from the 
as standard input, which is normally your terminal.  You may have to 
type ctl-D to tell as there is no more program to assemble.

Use -- if you need to explicitly name the standard input file in your 
command line.
"""

The primary use of "as" is for assembling the output of "gcc".  I think 
it would have been fine if "as" had required one or two dashes, or 
another option, to indicated using stdin as the input - but I don't see 
it as unreasonable that by default it works according to the stated 
primary use of the program.

A common way to handle assembly files on Linux is to use "gcc file.s", 
with whatever additional options you want, not "as file.s", just as it 
is common to use "gcc" for linking rather than running "ld" directly.


Were I writing a new assembler for Linux, I would probably not make it 
work as a pipe by default - and require a dash or two, or another 
command-line option.  Running "my-new-assembler" with no options or 
files would exit immediately, perhaps with a "no input files" error or 
perhaps with a "use --help for help" message.  (Or perhaps with no 
output at all, which I think would also be a reasonable choice.)  So 
while I think "act as a pipe" is a reasonable choice for "as" with no 
input files, I think there are other choices that are at least somewhat 
better.

However, where is any of this actually likely to cause an issue in the 
real world?  No one would expect "as" to do anything useful without any 
input, or an option like "--version" or "--help".  The only people 
likely to be confused are those who have no idea what the program is, 
and try to figure it out by typing "as".  The flaw, IMHO, is not that 
"as" works as a pipe by default, but its name is too short and generic. 
"gas" or "gasm" would have been better.


On the other hand, I have a number of times run a "grep" command and 
wondered why it was taking so long - because I'd forgotten to give it 
the files to search!  (That's my fault, not grep's.)



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#402244

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2026-09-18 11:26 -0700
Message-ID<118jvog$1grii$2@kst.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#402241
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
[...]
> Were I writing a new assembler for Linux, I would probably not make it
> work as a pipe by default - and require a dash or two, or another
> command-line option.  Running "my-new-assembler" with no options or
> files would exit immediately, perhaps with a "no input files" error or
> perhaps with a "use --help for help" message.  (Or perhaps with no
> output at all, which I think would also be a reasonable choice.)  So
> while I think "act as a pipe" is a reasonable choice for "as" with no
> input files, I think there are other choices that are at least
> somewhat better.

If your new assembler were intended to be a drop-in replacement for
"as", are certain that this behavior would not break existing tools?
How sure are you that gcc, or clang, or some other tool, doesn't send
input to the assembler in a pipe?  And why shouldn't they do so?

[...]

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#402253

Fromgazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack)
Date2026-09-18 20:39 +0000
Message-ID<118k7h8$3or$1@news.xmission.com>
In reply to#402244
In article <118jvog$1grii$2@kst.eternal-september.org>,
Keith Thompson  <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
>David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>[...]
>> Were I writing a new assembler for Linux, I would probably not make it
>> work as a pipe by default - and require a dash or two, or another
>> command-line option.  Running "my-new-assembler" with no options or
>> files would exit immediately, perhaps with a "no input files" error or
>> perhaps with a "use --help for help" message.  (Or perhaps with no
>> output at all, which I think would also be a reasonable choice.)  So
>> while I think "act as a pipe" is a reasonable choice for "as" with no
>> input files, I think there are other choices that are at least
>> somewhat better.
>
>If your new assembler were intended to be a drop-in replacement for
>"as", are certain that this behavior would not break existing tools?
>How sure are you that gcc, or clang, or some other tool, doesn't send
>input to the assembler in a pipe?  And why shouldn't they do so?

It is generally an error condition if both of the following are true:

    1) A program (*) is reading from standard input by default - i.e.,
    without the user having explicitly requested it (via a command line arg
    like "-" or "/dev/stdin").

    2) stdin is a tty.

I have gotten in the habit of having my programs check for both of the
above conditions being true (the later using the POSIX "isatty()" function)
and error-aborting if they are.  Note that this allows normal operation if
stdin is a pipe or a redirected file (or anything else other than a tty).

Also, another way that I've seen some programs deal with this - that I
think might make Bart happy - is to detect the condition (that stdin is a
tty) and issue a prompt in that case (rather than just aborting).

(*) Meaning, a program that takes command line args, which specify input
files, such as a compiler, or an assembler or something like AWK or Perl.

-- 
Ted Cruz sounds like every straight man's first wife.

Ted Cruz is such a closet case his first name should have been Tom.

Show some respect!  Someday, Ted will have a promising career selling reverse mortgages.

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#402273

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2026-09-19 13:10 +0200
Message-ID<118lqia$2526u$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#402244
On 18/09/2026 20:26, Keith Thompson wrote:
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
> [...]
>> Were I writing a new assembler for Linux, I would probably not make it
>> work as a pipe by default - and require a dash or two, or another
>> command-line option.  Running "my-new-assembler" with no options or
>> files would exit immediately, perhaps with a "no input files" error or
>> perhaps with a "use --help for help" message.  (Or perhaps with no
>> output at all, which I think would also be a reasonable choice.)  So
>> while I think "act as a pipe" is a reasonable choice for "as" with no
>> input files, I think there are other choices that are at least
>> somewhat better.
> 
> If your new assembler were intended to be a drop-in replacement for
> "as", are certain that this behavior would not break existing tools?

No.  I had not said my hypothetical new assembler would be a drop-in 
replacement for "as" - if it were, then obviously I'd follow the 
behaviour of "as" here.  It is unlikely that there is much to be gained 
in replacing "as" directly - it does all that is needed for a companion 
to a compiler.  The only point, I would say, of writing a new assembler 
for Linux would be for additional features or capabilities.  (Or it 
could be done for fun!)

> How sure are you that gcc, or clang, or some other tool, doesn't send
> input to the assembler in a pipe?  And why shouldn't they do so?
> 

gcc certainly sends its output to as using a pipe if you specify the 
"-pipe" option.  Otherwise, it uses temporary files (on Linux, this is 
pretty much the same efficiency as the temporary files are normally 
never actually saved to the filesystem.  Maybe Bart could tell us if 
giving gcc the "-pipe" option affects the speed on his Windows gcc 
toolchain).

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#402276

Frombart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2026-09-19 13:20 +0100
Message-ID<118lums$276c8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#402273
On 19/09/2026 12:10, David Brown wrote:
> On 18/09/2026 20:26, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>> [...]
>>> Were I writing a new assembler for Linux, I would probably not make it
>>> work as a pipe by default - and require a dash or two, or another
>>> command-line option.  Running "my-new-assembler" with no options or
>>> files would exit immediately, perhaps with a "no input files" error or
>>> perhaps with a "use --help for help" message.  (Or perhaps with no
>>> output at all, which I think would also be a reasonable choice.)  So
>>> while I think "act as a pipe" is a reasonable choice for "as" with no
>>> input files, I think there are other choices that are at least
>>> somewhat better.
>>
>> If your new assembler were intended to be a drop-in replacement for
>> "as", are certain that this behavior would not break existing tools?
> 
> No.  I had not said my hypothetical new assembler would be a drop-in 
> replacement for "as" - if it were, then obviously I'd follow the 
> behaviour of "as" here.  It is unlikely that there is much to be gained 
> in replacing "as" directly - it does all that is needed for a companion 
> to a compiler.  The only point, I would say, of writing a new assembler 
> for Linux would be for additional features or capabilities.  (Or it 
> could be done for fun!)
> 
>> How sure are you that gcc, or clang, or some other tool, doesn't send
>> input to the assembler in a pipe?  And why shouldn't they do so?
>>
> 
> gcc certainly sends its output to as using a pipe if you specify the "- 
> pipe" option.  Otherwise, it uses temporary files (on Linux, this is 
> pretty much the same efficiency as the temporary files are normally 
> never actually saved to the filesystem.  Maybe Bart could tell us if 
> giving gcc the "-pipe" option affects the speed on his Windows gcc 
> toolchain).
> 

For building sql.c, then using -pipe consistently gave compile-times of 
around 7.25 seconds vs 7.5 or so without it. About 4% faster, but this 
at -O0.

Using -O3, then it was 50.1 seconds vs 52.5 seconds (tested once only). 
I expected the difference to be still around 0.25 seconds (the EXE sizes 
won't be that different), but then I also forgot to do -s.

It needs a better set of tests really. But in general it seems to be 
insignificant, given that gcc is slow anyway, and even less significant 
with optimisations on.

The same program is built by bcc in 0.23 seconds, direct to EXE.

Using a discrete ASM step, then it's 0.53 seconds in all; generating 8MB 
of ASM is the bottleneck (4.1 seconds from .c to .asm; 0.12 seconds to 
assemble 270Kloc.)

In my original C compiler, it /had/ to go through assembly. But the 
assembler was built-in, and the intermediate ASM files were kept in 
memory. This streamlined the process, but ASM still had to be generated.

That version compiles this in 0.38 seconds, via that internal ASM. There 
is a option to turn off that internal ASM, but that seemed to make no 
difference. Then I looked closer and it was perhaps 0.005 seconds 
(timings vary by that much anyway), assuming the switch worked.

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#402283

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2026-09-19 17:30 +0200
Message-ID<118m9qv$2cgfb$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#402276
On 19/09/2026 14:20, bart wrote:
> On 19/09/2026 12:10, David Brown wrote:
>> On 18/09/2026 20:26, Keith Thompson wrote:
>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>>> [...]
>>>> Were I writing a new assembler for Linux, I would probably not make it
>>>> work as a pipe by default - and require a dash or two, or another
>>>> command-line option.  Running "my-new-assembler" with no options or
>>>> files would exit immediately, perhaps with a "no input files" error or
>>>> perhaps with a "use --help for help" message.  (Or perhaps with no
>>>> output at all, which I think would also be a reasonable choice.)  So
>>>> while I think "act as a pipe" is a reasonable choice for "as" with no
>>>> input files, I think there are other choices that are at least
>>>> somewhat better.
>>>
>>> If your new assembler were intended to be a drop-in replacement for
>>> "as", are certain that this behavior would not break existing tools?
>>
>> No.  I had not said my hypothetical new assembler would be a drop-in 
>> replacement for "as" - if it were, then obviously I'd follow the 
>> behaviour of "as" here.  It is unlikely that there is much to be 
>> gained in replacing "as" directly - it does all that is needed for a 
>> companion to a compiler.  The only point, I would say, of writing a 
>> new assembler for Linux would be for additional features or 
>> capabilities.  (Or it could be done for fun!)
>>
>>> How sure are you that gcc, or clang, or some other tool, doesn't send
>>> input to the assembler in a pipe?  And why shouldn't they do so?
>>>
>>
>> gcc certainly sends its output to as using a pipe if you specify the 
>> "- pipe" option.  Otherwise, it uses temporary files (on Linux, this 
>> is pretty much the same efficiency as the temporary files are normally 
>> never actually saved to the filesystem.  Maybe Bart could tell us if 
>> giving gcc the "-pipe" option affects the speed on his Windows gcc 
>> toolchain).
>>
> 
> For building sql.c, then using -pipe consistently gave compile-times of 
> around 7.25 seconds vs 7.5 or so without it. About 4% faster, but this 
> at -O0.
> 
> Using -O3, then it was 50.1 seconds vs 52.5 seconds (tested once only). 
> I expected the difference to be still around 0.25 seconds (the EXE sizes 
> won't be that different), but then I also forgot to do -s.
> 

Okay, thanks.  There's no need for any more tests - it's enough to see 
that it makes a small but in practice negligible difference.

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#402266

FromJanis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com>
Date2026-09-19 09:38 +0200
Message-ID<118le5e$scqh$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#402241
On 2026-09-18 18:08, David Brown wrote:
> On 18/09/2026 17:34, Michael S wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Sep 2026 15:28:21 GMT
>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
[...]
>>>
>>> By convention a single dash character may be specified
>>> in place of a filename to specify stdin.
>>
>> The latter is reasonable. What as does is not.
> 
>  From the manual page of "as" :
[snip]
> 
> The primary use of "as" is for assembling the output of "gcc".  I think 
> it would have been fine if "as" had required one or two dashes, or 
> another option, to indicated using stdin as the input - but I don't see 
> it as unreasonable that by default it works according to the stated 
> primary use of the program.
> 
> A common way to handle assembly files on Linux is to use "gcc file.s", 
> with whatever additional options you want, not "as file.s", just as it 
> is common to use "gcc" for linking rather than running "ld" directly.
> 
> Were I writing a new assembler for Linux, I would probably not make it 
> work as a pipe by default - and require a dash or two, or another 
> command-line option.  Running "my-new-assembler" with no options or 
> files would exit immediately, perhaps with a "no input files" error or 
> perhaps with a "use --help for help" message.  (Or perhaps with no 
> output at all, which I think would also be a reasonable choice.)  So 
> while I think "act as a pipe" is a reasonable choice for "as" with no 
> input files, I think there are other choices that are at least somewhat 
> better.
> 
> However, where is any of this actually likely to cause an issue in the 
> real world?  No one would expect "as" to do anything useful without any 
> input, or an option like "--version" or "--help".  The only people 
> likely to be confused are those who have no idea what the program is, 
> and try to figure it out by typing "as".  The flaw, IMHO, is not that 
> "as" works as a pipe by default, but its name is too short and generic. 
> "gas" or "gasm" would have been better.

I agree with all you wrote. - The problem on Unixes is more that
there's not exactly a single method used on that interface level
that one can rely on. One has to read the diagnostics and/or the
man page. And if there's someone coming from another "IT world"
he might have issues. (Most folks will learn the concepts while
others will complain, and sometimes not stop complaining, instead
of just informing themselves about the concepts and concrete use).

Janis

> [...]

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#402284

FromMichael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Date2026-09-19 21:00 +0300
Message-ID<20260919210012.00002ae1@yahoo.com>
In reply to#402241
On Fri, 18 Sep 2026 18:08:38 +0200
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

> On 18/09/2026 17:34, Michael S wrote:
> > On Fri, 18 Sep 2026 15:28:21 GMT
> > scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
> >   
> >> Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes:  
> >>> On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 17:50:57 -0700
> >>> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>     
> >>>> bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:  
> >>>>> On 18/09/2026 01:04, Steven G. Kargl wrote:  
> >>>> [...]  
> >>>>>> Most people read (or at least skim) the documentation
> >>>>>> that comes with the software they use.  
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Most people probably don't. They will try running such programs
> >>>>> without input, as often that gives usage info.  
> >>>>
> >>>> [...]
> >>>>
> >>>> You've seen how that approach fails.
> >>>>
> >>>> There are valid reasons for the way "as" behaves.  
> >>>
> >>> Well, if you consider compatibility with weird notion of "user
> >>> interface" of its original creator as a valid reason, then yes.
> >>> Even I accept it as valid.
> >>> Which does not make it less bad in the absolute sense.
> >>> Desire to give to user an option to accept an input from standard
> >>> input by itself is not unreasonable, bit it should be an option
> >>> rather than default.  
> >>
> >> That's your opinion.  That's not the unix philosophy.  Many
> >> unix commands default to stdin if no file name is specified
> >> (specifically to support streaming the output of one command
> >> to the input of another).  
> > 
> > There is big difference between utilities like grep or sort and
> > something like as. Blindly treating them as the same is wrong.
> >   
> >>
> >> By convention a single dash character may be specified
> >> in place of a filename to specify stdin.
> >>  
> > 
> > The latter is reasonable. What as does is not.
> >   
> 
>  From the manual page of "as" :
> 
> """
> as is primarily intended to assemble the output of the GNU C compiler 
> "gcc" for use by the linker "ld".  Nevertheless, we've tried to make
> as assemble correctly everything that other assemblers for the same
> machine would assemble.  Any exceptions are documented explicitly.
> This doesn't mean as always uses the same syntax as another assembler
> for the same architecture; for example, we know of several
> incompatible versions of 680x0 assembly language syntax.
> 

I don't know when this paragraph was written.
Today's gnu as is pretty reasonable tool for assembler develpment.
Decent macro capabilities etc... Likely, not on par with
macro-assemblers of IBM mainframes or of VAX/VMS, but rather similar in
capabilities to Microsoft's Masm or with nasm.
Certainly it is far more complete tool than what would be neeaded to
process gcc output into objects.


> Each time you run as it assembles exactly one source program.  The 
> source program is made up of one or more files.  (The standard input
> is also a file.)
> 
> You give as a command line that has zero or more input file names.
> The input files are read (from left file name to right).  A
> command-line argument (in any position) that has no special meaning
> is taken to be an input file name.
> 
> If you give as no file names it attempts to read one input file from
> the as standard input, which is normally your terminal.  You may have
> to type ctl-D to tell as there is no more program to assemble.
> 
> Use -- if you need to explicitly name the standard input file in your 
> command line.
> """
> 
> The primary use of "as" is for assembling the output of "gcc".  I
> think it would have been fine if "as" had required one or two dashes,
> or another option, to indicated using stdin as the input - but I
> don't see it as unreasonable that by default it works according to
> the stated primary use of the program.
> 
> A common way to handle assembly files on Linux is to use "gcc
> file.s", with whatever additional options you want, not "as file.s",
> just as it is common to use "gcc" for linking rather than running
> "ld" directly.
> 
> 
> Were I writing a new assembler for Linux, I would probably not make
> it work as a pipe by default - and require a dash or two, or another 
> command-line option.  Running "my-new-assembler" with no options or 
> files would exit immediately, perhaps with a "no input files" error
> or perhaps with a "use --help for help" message.  (Or perhaps with no 
> output at all, which I think would also be a reasonable choice.)  So 
> while I think "act as a pipe" is a reasonable choice for "as" with no 
> input files, I think there are other choices that are at least
> somewhat better.
> 
> However, where is any of this actually likely to cause an issue in
> the real world?  No one would expect "as" to do anything useful
> without any input, or an option like "--version" or "--help".  The
> only people likely to be confused are those who have no idea what the
> program is, and try to figure it out by typing "as". 

Those people are commnon.

> The flaw, IMHO,
> is not that "as" works as a pipe by default, but its name is too
> short and generic. "gas" or "gasm" would have been better.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, I have a number of times run a "grep" command and 
> wondered why it was taking so long - because I'd forgotten to give it 
> the files to search!  (That's my fault, not grep's.)
> 

If grep required additional option for acception of input from stadard
input that would be [mildly] annoying.


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#402291

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2026-09-20 10:17 +0200
Message-ID<118o4r5$2uhm1$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#402284
On 19/09/2026 20:00, Michael S wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Sep 2026 18:08:38 +0200
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> 
>> On 18/09/2026 17:34, Michael S wrote:
>>> On Fri, 18 Sep 2026 15:28:21 GMT
>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>>>    
>>>> Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>>> On Thu, 17 Sep 2026 17:50:57 -0700
>>>>> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>      
>>>>>> bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>>>>>> On 18/09/2026 01:04, Steven G. Kargl wrote:
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>> Most people read (or at least skim) the documentation
>>>>>>>> that comes with the software they use.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most people probably don't. They will try running such programs
>>>>>>> without input, as often that gives usage info.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You've seen how that approach fails.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are valid reasons for the way "as" behaves.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, if you consider compatibility with weird notion of "user
>>>>> interface" of its original creator as a valid reason, then yes.
>>>>> Even I accept it as valid.
>>>>> Which does not make it less bad in the absolute sense.
>>>>> Desire to give to user an option to accept an input from standard
>>>>> input by itself is not unreasonable, bit it should be an option
>>>>> rather than default.
>>>>
>>>> That's your opinion.  That's not the unix philosophy.  Many
>>>> unix commands default to stdin if no file name is specified
>>>> (specifically to support streaming the output of one command
>>>> to the input of another).
>>>
>>> There is big difference between utilities like grep or sort and
>>> something like as. Blindly treating them as the same is wrong.
>>>    
>>>>
>>>> By convention a single dash character may be specified
>>>> in place of a filename to specify stdin.
>>>>   
>>>
>>> The latter is reasonable. What as does is not.
>>>    
>>
>>   From the manual page of "as" :
>>
>> """
>> as is primarily intended to assemble the output of the GNU C compiler
>> "gcc" for use by the linker "ld".  Nevertheless, we've tried to make
>> as assemble correctly everything that other assemblers for the same
>> machine would assemble.  Any exceptions are documented explicitly.
>> This doesn't mean as always uses the same syntax as another assembler
>> for the same architecture; for example, we know of several
>> incompatible versions of 680x0 assembly language syntax.
>>
> 
> I don't know when this paragraph was written.
> Today's gnu as is pretty reasonable tool for assembler develpment.
> Decent macro capabilities etc... Likely, not on par with
> macro-assemblers of IBM mainframes or of VAX/VMS, but rather similar in
> capabilities to Microsoft's Masm or with nasm.
> Certainly it is far more complete tool than what would be neeaded to
> process gcc output into objects.

I also have no idea when it was written, but nothing you wrote 
contradicts it.  As I understand it, "as" was originally intended to 
work as the assembler for a compiler, but the developers also saw that 
it could be made useful as a general-purpose stand-alone assembler.  It 
may even be the case that they put more effort into coding that aspect 
of its use than handling compiler output.  Nonetheless, handling 
compiler output is their stated primary use-case.

(I've used a lot of different assemblers for microcontrollers through 
the years, but have not used "as" directly in real projects.  All my 
targets that have had "as" have also had gcc, and so I programmed in C 
or C++ instead - handling any assembly as inline assembly in C.)

>>
>>
>> On the other hand, I have a number of times run a "grep" command and
>> wondered why it was taking so long - because I'd forgotten to give it
>> the files to search!  (That's my fault, not grep's.)
>>
> 
> If grep required additional option for acception of input from stadard
> input that would be [mildly] annoying.
> 

Agreed.  I'd rather occasionally be surprised when I forgot the filename 
than have to add an additional argument when I want to use it as a pipe.

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#402293

Frombart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2026-09-20 11:29 +0100
Message-ID<118ocih$31cmo$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#402291
On 20/09/2026 09:17, David Brown wrote:
> On 19/09/2026 20:00, Michael S wrote:

>> I don't know when this paragraph was written.
>> Today's gnu as is pretty reasonable tool for assembler develpment.
>> Decent macro capabilities etc... Likely, not on par with
>> macro-assemblers of IBM mainframes or of VAX/VMS, but rather similar in
>> capabilities to Microsoft's Masm or with nasm.
>> Certainly it is far more complete tool than what would be neeaded to
>> process gcc output into objects.
> 
> I also have no idea when it was written, but nothing you wrote 
> contradicts it.  As I understand it, "as" was originally intended to 
> work as the assembler for a compiler, but the developers also saw that 
> it could be made useful as a general-purpose stand-alone assembler.  It 
> may even be the case that they put more effort into coding that aspect 
> of its use than handling compiler output.  Nonetheless, handling 
> compiler output is their stated primary use-case.

Most of my language projects use this module-naming scheme:

    xx              Lead module that contains project info
    xx_cli          The CLI-based front-end
    xx_*            The rest of the modules

With some of them, I can use a version without that CLI module, when 
embedded into another app for example, or building into a DLL where the 
xx_* stuff is accessed via an API.

The point is, I treat the two cases separately:

* Use a dedicate CLI front-end for a decent interactive version

* Have a separate interface for use as embedded, or via API

The latter need not rule out taking input from stdin, but it's not 
something I do. If you have an API, then you can either pass it the name 
of a file, or an in-memory string.

The choice is also always there to invoke the CLI version 
programmatically; having sensible CLI is not a hindrance! It's just cruder.


> (I've used a lot of different assemblers for microcontrollers 

I've /written/ a few including for an Intel microcontroller, almost most 
assembly has written inline within my HLL.

>> If grep required additional option for acception of input from stadard
>> input that would be [mildly] annoying.
>>
> 
> Agreed.  I'd rather occasionally be surprised when I forgot the filename 
> than have to add an additional argument when I want to use it as a pipe.

I suppose it would be out of the question to give it a different name 
for those two purposes? I thought Linux was great at the sort of thing.

It can either be two separate executables, or the same one (via an 
alias) and it uses the name of the invoked executable to determine 
behaviour.

One major program (can't remember if Rust or LLVM) worked like that: 
multiple executables of the exact same size, and the exact same contents.

I sometimes do that too, but I just use a copy:

   c:\mx>copy mm.exe ms.exe
           1 file(s) copied.

   c:\mx>mm hello
   Compiling hello.m to hello.exe

   c:\mx>ms hello
   Hello, World

So, with the 'ms' name, the compiler applies the -r  and -q options to 
run a program like a script (the -q makes it quiet).

It is not rocket-science. So I don't know what phenomenon this is, where 
millions of people are stuck with the same quirky utilities for decades, 
when such solutions exist.



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#402296

Frombart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2026-09-20 12:52 +0100
Message-ID<118ohdl$334k9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#402293
On 20/09/2026 11:29, bart wrote:

> I suppose it would be out of the question to give it a different name 
> for those two purposes? I thought Linux was great at the sort of thing.

> I sometimes do that too, but I just use a copy:
> 
>    c:\mx>copy mm.exe ms.exe
>            1 file(s) copied.
> 
>    c:\mx>mm hello
>    Compiling hello.m to hello.exe
> 
>    c:\mx>ms hello
>    Hello, World
I forgot my C compiler has the feature too. So since this is a C forum:


   c:\cx>copy cc.exe ci.exe
         1 file(s) copied.

   c:\cx>copy cc.exe cs.exe
         1 file(s) copied.

   c:\cx>ci hello
   Hello, World!

   c:\cx>cs hello
   Hello, World!

'ci' interprets the code, but it runs slower. 'cs' runs native code. But 
'ci' can give a shorter compile-time for bigger programs.


The point is that program options can effectively be encoded into the 
name of an executable, /without changing anything inside it/.

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#402727

Fromantispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch)
Date2026-10-06 01:06 +0000
Message-ID<11a1hhv$3u6ge$3@paganini.bofh.team>
In reply to#402293
bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
> 
> It is not rocket-science. So I don't know what phenomenon this is, where 
> millions of people are stuck with the same quirky utilities for decades, 
> when such solutions exist.

I think it is not that "people are stuck or decades".  Rather, you
are trying to keep good aspects of the past alive.  AFAICS around
1990 there were plenty of language tools working the way you want.
But now only handful (like 'gcc') survive and remain reasonably
popular.  It is for you to decide if there is a conspiracy to
deprive programmers of good tools.  Or maybe there are deeper reasons
for thing to be the way they are.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch

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#402313

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com>
Date2026-09-20 15:58 -0700
Message-ID<118poeb$3hhhe$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#402291
On 9/20/2026 1:17 AM, David Brown wrote:
[...]

as is very useful. Well it was for me back in the day. Well, I mean GAS.

https://web.archive.org/web/20060214112345/http://appcore.home.comcast.net/appcore/src/cpu/i686/ac_i686_gcc_asm.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20060214112539/http://appcore.home.comcast.net/appcore/src/cpu/i686/ac_i686_masm_asm.html

GAS was kind to me.


# Copyright 2005 Chris Thomasson


.align 16
.globl np_ac_i686_atomic_dwcas_fence
np_ac_i686_atomic_dwcas_fence:
   pushl %esi
   pushl %ebx
   movl 16(%esp), %esi
   movl (%esi), %eax
   movl 4(%esi), %edx
   movl 20(%esp), %esi
   movl (%esi), %ebx
   movl 4(%esi), %ecx
   movl 12(%esp), %esi
   lock cmpxchg8b (%esi)
   jne np_ac_i686_atomic_dwcas_fence_fail
   xorl %eax, %eax
   popl %ebx
   popl %esi
   ret

np_ac_i686_atomic_dwcas_fence_fail:
   movl 16(%esp), %esi
   movl %eax, (%esi)
   movl %edx, 4(%esi)
   movl $1, %eax
   popl %ebx
   popl %esi
ret




.align 16
.globl ac_i686_stack_mpmc_push_cas
ac_i686_stack_mpmc_push_cas:
   movl 4(%esp), %edx
   movl (%edx), %eax
   movl 8(%esp), %ecx

ac_i686_stack_mpmc_push_cas_retry:
   movl %eax, (%ecx)
   lock cmpxchgl %ecx, (%edx)
   jne ac_i686_stack_mpmc_push_cas_retry
ret




.align 16
.globl np_ac_i686_lfgc_smr_stack_mpmc_pop_dwcas
np_ac_i686_lfgc_smr_stack_mpmc_pop_dwcas:
   pushl %esi
   pushl %ebx

np_ac_i686_lfgc_smr_stack_mpmc_pop_dwcas_reload:
   movl 12(%esp), %esi
   movl 4(%esi), %edx
   movl (%esi), %eax

np_ac_i686_lfgc_smr_stack_mpmc_pop_dwcas_retry:
   movl 16(%esp), %ebx
   movl %eax, (%ebx)
   mfence
   cmpl (%esi), %eax
   jne np_ac_i686_lfgc_smr_stack_mpmc_pop_dwcas_reload
   test %eax, %eax
   je np_ac_i686_lfgc_smr_stack_mpmc_pop_dwcas_fail
   movl (%eax), %ebx
   leal 1(%edx), %ecx
   lock cmpxchg8b (%esi)
   jne np_ac_i686_lfgc_smr_stack_mpmc_pop_dwcas_retry

np_ac_i686_lfgc_smr_stack_mpmc_pop_dwcas_fail:
   movl 16(%esp), %esi
   xorl %ebx, %ebx
   movl %ebx, (%esi)
   popl %ebx
   popl %esi
ret




.align 16
.globl np_ac_i686_stack_mpmc_pop_dwcas
np_ac_i686_stack_mpmc_pop_dwcas:
   pushl %esi
   pushl %ebx
   movl 12(%esp), %esi
   movl 4(%esi), %edx
   movl (%esi), %eax

np_ac_i686_stack_mpmc_pop_dwcas_retry:
   test %eax, %eax
   je np_ac_i686_stack_mpmc_pop_dwcas_fail
   movl (%eax), %ebx
   leal 1(%edx), %ecx
   lock cmpxchg8b (%esi)
   jne np_ac_i686_stack_mpmc_pop_dwcas_retry

np_ac_i686_stack_mpmc_pop_dwcas_fail:
   popl %ebx
   popl %esi
ret




.align 16
.globl ac_i686_lfgc_smr_activate
ac_i686_lfgc_smr_activate:
   movl 4(%esp), %edx
   movl 8(%esp), %ecx

ac_i686_lfgc_smr_activate_reload:
   movl (%ecx), %eax
   movl %eax, (%edx)
   mfence
   cmpl (%ecx), %eax
   jne ac_i686_lfgc_smr_activate_reload
ret




.align 16
.globl ac_i686_lfgc_smr_deactivate
ac_i686_lfgc_smr_deactivate:
   movl 4(%esp), %ecx
   xorl %eax, %eax
   movl %eax, (%ecx)
ret




.align 16
.globl ac_i686_queue_spsc_push
ac_i686_queue_spsc_push:
   movl 4(%esp), %eax
   movl 8(%esp), %ecx
   movl 4(%eax), %edx
   # sfence may be needed here for future x86
   movl %ecx, (%edx)
   movl %ecx, 4(%eax)
ret




.align 16
.globl ac_i686_queue_spsc_pop
ac_i686_queue_spsc_pop:
   pushl %ebx
   movl 8(%esp), %ecx
   movl (%ecx), %eax
   cmpl 4(%ecx), %eax
   je ac_i686_queue_spsc_pop_failed
   movl (%eax), %edx
   # lfence may be needed here for future x86
   movl 12(%edx), %ebx
   movl %edx, (%ecx)
   movl %ebx, 12(%eax)
   popl %ebx
   ret

ac_i686_queue_spsc_pop_failed:
   xorl %eax, %eax
   popl %ebx
ret




.align 16
.globl ac_i686_mb_fence
ac_i686_mb_fence:
   mfence
ret




.align 16
.globl ac_i686_mb_naked
ac_i686_mb_naked:
ret




.align 16
.globl ac_i686_mb_store_fence
ac_i686_mb_store_fence:
   movl 4(%esp), %ecx
   movl 8(%esp), %eax
   mfence
   movl %eax, (%ecx)
ret




.align 16
.globl ac_i686_mb_store_naked
ac_i686_mb_store_naked:
   movl 4(%esp), %ecx
   movl 8(%esp), %eax
   movl %eax, (%ecx)
ret




.align 16
.globl ac_i686_mb_load_fence
ac_i686_mb_load_fence:
   movl 4(%esp), %ecx
   movl (%ecx), %eax
   mfence
ret




.align 16
.globl ac_i686_mb_load_naked
ac_i686_mb_load_naked:
   movl 4(%esp), %ecx
   movl (%ecx), %eax
ret




.align 16
.globl ac_i686_atomic_xchg_fence
ac_i686_atomic_xchg_fence:
   movl 4(%esp), %ecx
   movl 8(%esp), %eax
   xchgl %eax, (%ecx)
ret




.align 16
.globl ac_i686_atomic_xadd_fence
ac_i686_atomic_xadd_fence:
   movl 4(%esp), %ecx
   movl 8(%esp), %eax
   lock xaddl %eax, (%ecx)
ret




.align 16
.globl ac_i686_atomic_inc_fence
ac_i686_atomic_inc_fence:
   movl 4(%esp), %ecx
   movl $1, %eax
   lock xaddl %eax, (%ecx)
   incl %eax
ret




.align 16
.globl ac_i686_atomic_dec_fence
ac_i686_atomic_dec_fence:
   movl 4(%esp), %ecx
   movl $-1, %eax
   lock xaddl %eax, (%ecx)
   decl %eax
ret




.align 16
.globl ac_i686_atomic_cas_fence
ac_i686_atomic_cas_fence:
   movl 4(%esp), %ecx
   movl 8(%esp), %eax
   movl 12(%esp), %edx
   lock cmpxchgl %edx, (%ecx)
ret


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