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Groups > comp.lang.c > #399792 > unrolled thread
| Started by | fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-06-08 17:49 +0200 |
| Last post | 2026-06-14 14:44 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 194 — 17 participants |
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this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 17:49 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 18:16 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 18:24 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 00:28 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 08:56 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 10:26 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 09:10 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 11:34 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-09 12:25 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 12:31 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 13:43 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 13:53 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 00:02 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 08:55 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 00:00 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 09:06 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 00:34 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 12:37 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 11:40 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-11 00:01 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-22 13:42 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-22 22:38 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-23 14:40 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-24 02:04 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 04:42 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-06-09 06:02 -0400
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 12:18 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 23:45 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 13:55 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 23:56 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 21:52 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 21:55 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 22:05 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 06:03 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 00:24 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-11 00:07 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 16:47 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-20 02:49 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 19:52 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-20 03:57 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-20 15:49 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-21 16:30 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-22 14:56 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-22 12:23 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-10 14:56 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 13:54 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 23:47 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 21:42 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 06:21 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 00:14 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 00:31 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-11 00:15 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-11 21:08 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-13 00:10 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 23:01 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 06:47 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-11 13:27 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-12 01:35 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-13 14:26 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-13 14:32 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 00:45 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-14 13:55 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-16 04:36 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 13:08 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 13:11 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-17 03:11 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-17 12:13 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-17 23:47 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-17 20:26 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 07:30 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-18 04:36 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-18 04:38 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 23:03 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 13:42 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-19 22:40 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 16:40 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-20 02:50 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 19:53 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-20 03:59 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-21 16:31 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-22 00:59 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-22 14:06 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-22 22:40 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-23 14:41 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-24 02:05 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 04:36 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-24 12:19 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-24 21:47 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-25 12:44 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 12:02 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-11 00:16 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-06-17 18:41 -0500
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 07:30 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-06-18 03:49 -0500
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 23:06 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 01:20 -0500
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-19 08:56 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 10:42 +0100
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-19 10:18 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 15:29 +0100
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-19 16:18 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 18:07 +0100
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-19 18:51 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 21:04 +0100
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-19 19:55 +0000
[OT] Google AI - behavioral analysis (was: [something else]) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-06-20 01:52 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-20 03:03 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-19 18:50 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-19 13:46 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 15:49 +0100
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-19 17:25 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-21 01:42 +0300
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-21 12:18 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-21 23:15 +0300
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-22 04:33 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-22 10:01 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-22 14:56 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-23 07:25 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-23 15:35 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-23 18:07 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-23 17:12 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-23 21:07 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-23 23:00 +0300
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-24 08:32 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-24 21:54 +0300
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-24 21:09 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-24 10:48 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-24 10:47 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-24 15:02 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-25 11:29 +0000
NIC interrupt rates (was UART discussion; previously was Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-25 15:31 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-25 19:15 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-25 18:29 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-25 20:52 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-26 14:58 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-26 11:46 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-27 01:57 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-25 22:53 +0300
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-27 01:52 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-27 19:46 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-07-01 13:16 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-07-03 17:00 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-27 20:49 +0300
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-07-01 13:17 +0000
UARTs (was Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network)) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-27 18:50 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-23 17:39 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-23 21:11 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-24 11:04 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-24 15:27 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-25 11:56 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-25 21:30 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-27 02:22 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-28 18:59 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-07-07 23:19 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-07-08 14:52 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-07-08 20:56 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-24 15:51 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-23 14:44 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-23 22:30 +0300
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-23 22:48 +0300
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-24 12:18 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-24 22:00 +0300
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-24 20:09 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-25 00:25 +0300
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-25 12:00 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-25 15:37 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) pa@see.signature.invalid (Pierre Asselin) - 2026-06-24 21:21 +0000
Time from official time-services (was Re: ...some arbitrary subject...) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-06-28 00:15 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-19 16:31 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 17:50 +0100
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-19 18:54 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-19 19:58 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 21:15 +0100
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-19 22:09 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-20 03:00 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 10:33 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 19:04 +0100
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-19 18:55 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 21:07 +0100
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-20 13:53 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-06-20 19:25 -0400
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-19 22:49 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 18:06 -0500
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-19 06:59 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 14:47 -0500
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-19 22:47 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-20 14:02 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 02:21 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-19 09:59 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 00:26 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-06-09 21:21 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-10 12:28 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-06-11 07:24 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-06-14 14:44 +0200
Page 9 of 10 — ← Prev page 1 … 7 8 [9] 10 Next page →
| From | cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-24 12:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <111ghvb$n1s$1@reader1.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #400213 |
In article <20260623224836.00001a3c@yahoo.com>,
Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 07:25:56 +0200
>David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>> > [snip]
>> > The POSIX serial interface seems quite useful - using ioctl(2)
>> > to handle non-data-transfer interfaces (e.g. setting the baud rate,
>> > stop bits, parity, et alia) via library functions
>> > (tcsetattr/tcgetattr) and using standard filesystem calls for
>> > reading and writing.
>> >
>> > Once the serial port is opened, it is a simple byte stream just like
>> > any other unix file.
>> >
>> > Bitbanging RS232C for SCADA was never a design goal, unlike
>> > IEEE 488.
>>
>> Just look at the documentation:
>> <https://docs.kernel.org/driver-api/serial/driver.html> or
>> <https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Serial_Programming/Serial_Linux>.
>> It's a total mess - it's all for handling serial terminals from the
>> 1970's. Most of it is, of course, just a one-off setting - once you
>> have got the termio stuff right,
>
>Configuration API sometimes matters.
>In particular, support for various timeouts in termio is subpar
>relatively to what you have in Windows. May be, Windows has too many of
>them, esp. on the transmit side, but termios certainly has too few.
>What is even worse, is resolution. Out of memory, resolution of
>timeouts in termios is 0.1 sec. For SCADA-style protocols that's
>useless.
>
>So, it seems, the only way to implement such protocols on Linux or
>similar OSes, is to read one character at time by very high priority
>thread. And to pray for good luck.
>Today, with many cores available everiwhere, the chance for ending up
>lucky is decent. 25 years ago - less so.
That was not your original complaint, which was about how
complecting the serial port abstraction with the TTY layer
ultimtely proved to be a poor design choice. You are correct
about that, for the record, but this complaint is a different
matter entirely.
What you're saying is that you really just want to get the TTY
layer out of the path between the user program and the serial
device. That's fine, but different.
>> and haven't accidentally got some
>> extra character translation or flow control, then it's just simple
>> reads and writes.
>>
>> Of course it is hard to remove stuff once it is there - user space
>> APIs are, rightly, as stable as they possibly can be.
>
>But it is possible to add better API without removing old stuff.
>May be, it even exists. I didn't follow the field since ~2021.
I'd suggest reviewing the landscape more thoroughly. This may
be a good start: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4sZUBS57OQ
- Dan C.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-24 22:00 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <20260624220010.00006ed7@yahoo.com> |
| In reply to | #400226 |
On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 12:18:51 -0000 (UTC) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) wrote: > In article <20260623224836.00001a3c@yahoo.com>, > Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> wrote: > >On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 07:25:56 +0200 > >David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: > >> > [snip] > >> > The POSIX serial interface seems quite useful - using ioctl(2) > >> > to handle non-data-transfer interfaces (e.g. setting the baud > >> > rate, stop bits, parity, et alia) via library functions > >> > (tcsetattr/tcgetattr) and using standard filesystem calls for > >> > reading and writing. > >> > > >> > Once the serial port is opened, it is a simple byte stream just > >> > like any other unix file. > >> > > >> > Bitbanging RS232C for SCADA was never a design goal, unlike > >> > IEEE 488. > >> > >> Just look at the documentation: > >> <https://docs.kernel.org/driver-api/serial/driver.html> or > >> <https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Serial_Programming/Serial_Linux>. > >> It's a total mess - it's all for handling serial terminals from the > >> 1970's. Most of it is, of course, just a one-off setting - once you > >> have got the termio stuff right, > > > >Configuration API sometimes matters. > >In particular, support for various timeouts in termio is subpar > >relatively to what you have in Windows. May be, Windows has too many > >of them, esp. on the transmit side, but termios certainly has too > >few. What is even worse, is resolution. Out of memory, resolution of > >timeouts in termios is 0.1 sec. For SCADA-style protocols that's > >useless. > > > >So, it seems, the only way to implement such protocols on Linux or > >similar OSes, is to read one character at time by very high priority > >thread. And to pray for good luck. > >Today, with many cores available everiwhere, the chance for ending up > >lucky is decent. 25 years ago - less so. > > That was not your original complaint, which was about how > complecting the serial port abstraction with the TTY layer > ultimtely proved to be a poor design choice. You are correct > about that, for the record, but this complaint is a different > matter entirely. > > What you're saying is that you really just want to get the TTY > layer out of the path between the user program and the serial > device. That's fine, but different. > Concept of layers is too abstract for my poor mind. Especially when there are more than 2 or 3 of them. > >> and haven't accidentally got some > >> extra character translation or flow control, then it's just simple > >> reads and writes. > >> > >> Of course it is hard to remove stuff once it is there - user space > >> APIs are, rightly, as stable as they possibly can be. > > > >But it is possible to add better API without removing old stuff. > >May be, it even exists. I didn't follow the field since ~2021. > > I'd suggest reviewing the landscape more thoroughly. This may > be a good start: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4sZUBS57OQ > > - Dan C. > I don't consume technical stuff in video form. Is it available as a written document?
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-24 20:09 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <VPW_R.1356$Cur5.834@fx45.iad> |
| In reply to | #400234 |
Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes: >On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 12:18:51 -0000 (UTC) >cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) wrote: > >> In article <20260623224836.00001a3c@yahoo.com>, >> Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 07:25:56 +0200 >> >David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: >> >> > [snip] >> >> > The POSIX serial interface seems quite useful - using ioctl(2) >> >> > to handle non-data-transfer interfaces (e.g. setting the baud >> >> > rate, stop bits, parity, et alia) via library functions >> >> > (tcsetattr/tcgetattr) and using standard filesystem calls for >> >> > reading and writing. >> >> > >> >> > Once the serial port is opened, it is a simple byte stream just >> >> > like any other unix file. >> >> > >> >> > Bitbanging RS232C for SCADA was never a design goal, unlike >> >> > IEEE 488. >> >> >> >> Just look at the documentation: >> >> <https://docs.kernel.org/driver-api/serial/driver.html> or >> >> <https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Serial_Programming/Serial_Linux>. >> >> It's a total mess - it's all for handling serial terminals from the >> >> 1970's. Most of it is, of course, just a one-off setting - once you >> >> have got the termio stuff right, >> > >> >Configuration API sometimes matters. >> >In particular, support for various timeouts in termio is subpar >> >relatively to what you have in Windows. May be, Windows has too many >> >of them, esp. on the transmit side, but termios certainly has too >> >few. What is even worse, is resolution. Out of memory, resolution of >> >timeouts in termios is 0.1 sec. For SCADA-style protocols that's >> >useless. >> > >> >So, it seems, the only way to implement such protocols on Linux or >> >similar OSes, is to read one character at time by very high priority >> >thread. And to pray for good luck. >> >Today, with many cores available everiwhere, the chance for ending up >> >lucky is decent. 25 years ago - less so. >> >> That was not your original complaint, which was about how >> complecting the serial port abstraction with the TTY layer >> ultimtely proved to be a poor design choice. You are correct >> about that, for the record, but this complaint is a different >> matter entirely. >> >> What you're saying is that you really just want to get the TTY >> layer out of the path between the user program and the serial >> device. That's fine, but different. >> > >Concept of layers is too abstract for my poor mind. >Especially when there are more than 2 or 3 of them. > > >> >> and haven't accidentally got some >> >> extra character translation or flow control, then it's just simple >> >> reads and writes. >> >> >> >> Of course it is hard to remove stuff once it is there - user space >> >> APIs are, rightly, as stable as they possibly can be. >> > >> >But it is possible to add better API without removing old stuff. >> >May be, it even exists. I didn't follow the field since ~2021. >> >> I'd suggest reviewing the landscape more thoroughly. This may >> be a good start: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4sZUBS57OQ >> >> - Dan C. >> > >I don't consume technical stuff in video form. >Is it available as a written document? Both the slides and a transcript are linked in the video description.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-25 00:25 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <20260625002531.00000673@yahoo.com> |
| In reply to | #400237 |
On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 20:09:25 GMT scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote: > > > Both the slides and a transcript are linked in the video description. Thank you. I found slide. Didn't find transcript yet.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-25 12:00 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <111j594$j82$1@reader1.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #400234 |
In article <20260624220010.00006ed7@yahoo.com>,
Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 12:18:51 -0000 (UTC)
>cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) wrote:
>> In article <20260623224836.00001a3c@yahoo.com>,
>> Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >On Tue, 23 Jun 2026 07:25:56 +0200
>> >David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>> >> > [snip]
>> >> > The POSIX serial interface seems quite useful - using ioctl(2)
>> >> > to handle non-data-transfer interfaces (e.g. setting the baud
>> >> > rate, stop bits, parity, et alia) via library functions
>> >> > (tcsetattr/tcgetattr) and using standard filesystem calls for
>> >> > reading and writing.
>> >> >
>> >> > Once the serial port is opened, it is a simple byte stream just
>> >> > like any other unix file.
>> >> >
>> >> > Bitbanging RS232C for SCADA was never a design goal, unlike
>> >> > IEEE 488.
>> >>
>> >> Just look at the documentation:
>> >> <https://docs.kernel.org/driver-api/serial/driver.html> or
>> >> <https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Serial_Programming/Serial_Linux>.
>> >> It's a total mess - it's all for handling serial terminals from the
>> >> 1970's. Most of it is, of course, just a one-off setting - once you
>> >> have got the termio stuff right,
>> >
>> >Configuration API sometimes matters.
>> >In particular, support for various timeouts in termio is subpar
>> >relatively to what you have in Windows. May be, Windows has too many
>> >of them, esp. on the transmit side, but termios certainly has too
>> >few. What is even worse, is resolution. Out of memory, resolution of
>> >timeouts in termios is 0.1 sec. For SCADA-style protocols that's
>> >useless.
>> >
>> >So, it seems, the only way to implement such protocols on Linux or
>> >similar OSes, is to read one character at time by very high priority
>> >thread. And to pray for good luck.
>> >Today, with many cores available everiwhere, the chance for ending up
>> >lucky is decent. 25 years ago - less so.
>>
>> That was not your original complaint, which was about how
>> complecting the serial port abstraction with the TTY layer
>> ultimtely proved to be a poor design choice. You are correct
>> about that, for the record, but this complaint is a different
>> matter entirely.
>>
>> What you're saying is that you really just want to get the TTY
>> layer out of the path between the user program and the serial
>> device. That's fine, but different.
>
>Concept of layers is too abstract for my poor mind.
>Especially when there are more than 2 or 3 of them.
Huh.
>> >> and haven't accidentally got some
>> >> extra character translation or flow control, then it's just simple
>> >> reads and writes.
>> >>
>> >> Of course it is hard to remove stuff once it is there - user space
>> >> APIs are, rightly, as stable as they possibly can be.
>> >
>> >But it is possible to add better API without removing old stuff.
>> >May be, it even exists. I didn't follow the field since ~2021.
>>
>> I'd suggest reviewing the landscape more thoroughly. This may
>> be a good start: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4sZUBS57OQ
>
>I don't consume technical stuff in video form.
>Is it available as a written document?
Systems is kind of weird in computer science (and other
disciplines) in the sense that conferences are the primary venue
where new material is presented. Seems like you're cutting
yourself off from most of frontier of work in the subfield
arbitrarily, but you do you.
- Dan C.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-25 15:37 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <BWb%R.281$GLn8.192@fx07.iad> |
| In reply to | #400243 |
cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) writes: >In article <20260624220010.00006ed7@yahoo.com>, >Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> wrote: >>Concept of layers is too abstract for my poor mind. >>Especially when there are more than 2 or 3 of them. > >Huh. Michael must dislike HTTP, IMAP, SSH, SMTP, not to mention the protocols layered atop HTTP.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | pa@see.signature.invalid (Pierre Asselin) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-24 21:21 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <111hhob$8s0$1@reader1.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #400213 |
Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> wrote:
> [ ... ]
> So, it seems, the only way to implement such protocols on Linux or
> similar OSes, is to read one character at time by very high priority
> thread. And to pray for good luck.
> Today, with many cores available everiwhere, the chance for ending up
> lucky is decent. 25 years ago - less so.
Hmmm, no.
About 25 years ago I wanted to synchronize my computer's clock to
the NIST Automated Computer Time Service [1] over a dialup modem.
The computer was an alphalinux with a 21164 if I remember correctly.
One core, but fast for the time.
NIST sends a ~50 character timestamp string, followed after a short pause
by a "*" on-time-marker. Reading the string one char at a time in a
tight loop didn't work, it dropped characters. Just saying.
The right way, in pseudocode:
Set the fd for non-blocking reads;
loop: {
Select to read with a short timeout (2 ms or so at 9600 baud).
Read what's available, appending to a buffer.
}
// timed out; that means we finished reading the string.
{
Select to read with a long timeout.
Read the marker.
(Read the system clock so we can calculate the delta later.)
Echo the marker.
}
// That's one timestamp. Repeat for more, until NIST hangs up.
The select() call had plenty timeout resolution. (You could use poll() too.)
(When you echo the marker, NIST measures the round-trip time, corrects
for it and changes the marker to a "#".)
[1] https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/time-distribution/automated-computer-time-service-acts
Don't know if NIST still operates the service. I hope so, there are
many places left with no Internet access.
--
pa at panix dot com
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-28 00:15 +0200 |
| Subject | Time from official time-services (was Re: ...some arbitrary subject...) |
| Message-ID | <111pi1o$5rbc$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #400238 |
On 2026-06-24 23:21, Pierre Asselin wrote:
> Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> [ ... ]
> [...]
>
> About 25 years ago I wanted to synchronize my computer's clock to
> the NIST Automated Computer Time Service [1] over a dialup modem.
> The computer was an alphalinux with a 21164 if I remember correctly.
> One core, but fast for the time.
>
> NIST sends a ~50 character timestamp string, followed after a short pause
> by a "*" on-time-marker. Reading the string one char at a time in a
> tight loop didn't work, it dropped characters. Just saying.
>
> The right way, in pseudocode:
> [...]
> [1] https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/time-distribution/automated-computer-time-service-acts
>
> Don't know if NIST still operates the service. I hope so, there are
> many places left with no Internet access.
Reminds me a simple service that the PTB (in DE) offered 30 years ago
and that I was happily using to simply interrogate the UTC time from
the command-line in a _minimalist_ textual form by just interrogating
a PTB server at a specific port (and without specific protocol or tool)
gawk '
BEGIN {"/inet/tcp/0/www.ptb.de/5076" |& getline time ; print time }
'
Only a few years later they discontinued that nice simplistic service.
Meanwhile they have a fancy GUI (https://uhr.ptb.de/ - nothing that I
could interrogate and process as simply as with above script).
A current alternative (but not exactly as simple as before) is going
through NTP with the respective tool as in: ntpdate -q ptbtime1.ptb.de
Janis
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 16:31 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1113qte$k1o$1@reader1.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #400124 |
In article <1113kuc$3cklj$2@dont-email.me>, Bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>On 19/06/2026 12:46, David Brown wrote:
>> On 19/06/2026 11:42, Bart wrote:
>>> On 19/06/2026 07:56, David Brown wrote:
>>>> [snip]
>>>> Drive letters make sense when users wanted to distinguish between
>>>> their 3.5" floppy "A:" and their 5.25" floppy "B:". They were still
>>>> usable when you had a hard drive with one partition. Once it was
>>>> realistic to have two drives in the one PC, and more than one
>>>> partition on a disk, they were outdated and too restrictive for comfort.
>>>
>>> How would you distinguish between two floppy drives on a Unix-like
>>> file system?
>>
>> To be honest, I have never come across the need. In my university days
>> (with SunOS, then Solaris) the machines did not have floppies - most did
>> not even have hard disks. By the time I started using Linux, at about
>> the turn of the century, floppies were out of fashion.
>>
>>> If writing a common shell script for other people to use on their own
>>> machines, would you be able to use the same designations?
>>
>> Filesystems are mounted on *nix systems. The exact placement of mount
>> points varies, as does the extent to which attached filesystems are
>> automounted, or the user is informed and given a choice, or mounting is
>> manual. Different *nix systems have different habits, and in Linux it
>> can vary by distro or desktop. And then administrators or users can
>> have their own choices.
>>
>> Hardware is different - if I need to use a floppy these days, it would
>> be via a USB floppy drive. More realistically, people would use USB
>> memory sticks now. But someone might have several USB mass storage
>> devices attached - I would not presume to know which they want to use
>> for this script or program. So I would say the script should either
>> require a path (for file / directory access - and I can't think why it
>> would be limited to a floppy), or a device name (for something like a
>> flash image writer). It would likely be better to have a gui or menu
>> choice for some programs. Getting lists of the available block devices,
>> mounted systems, filesystem types, etc., and detailed information about
>> the devices, is not hard on Linux - but I don't know how portable that
>> might be to other *nix systems.
>
>If you plug in a USB pen drive on Windows, it will be under a drive
>letter, but that it is not guaranteed to be consistent, especially if
>you plug in more than one.
>
>So that is a problem. It would be useful, IMV, if the USB sockets were
>labeled with specific letters.
Why letters and not descriptive volume names? If I insert a USB
flash device into my Macintosh, it gets mounted under
`/Volumes/<some name>` where the name is a property of the image
on the drive; usually it's descriptive. It also shows up in the
Finder as a separate thing that I can double-click on to expand
the view of in a window.
That seems infinitely better to me than what Windows does.
>So, what's it like under Linux: if I plug a pen drive into my RPi, then
>the files will be at:
>
> /media/bart/EEBEBEBEC313CA9B
>
>Obviously. If I try another, then it's at /media/bart/NEW (note these
>are case-sensitive), and a third was at /media/bart/0159078ED.
This conflates so many things that I don't even know where to
rightfully begin. In particular, you are referring to the
actual directory pathnames that Linux uses as mount points for
the filesystems on devices. But I see no reason why I couldn't
have a userspace image that creates symbolic links to those
named 'a', 'b', 'c', etc.
>I assume that 'bart' is specific to my machine,
I assume it's specific to you as a user.
>so I can't assume anything if, say, I wanted to hardcode a path
>into a program or script that someone else runs.
In general, that's a bad idea and poor practice anyway. But if
you wanted to, you could assume a pathname that's a symbolic lnk.
Sounds like you can't assume that on Windows, either.
You could do something like
dir=${dir:-/media/$LOGNAME/expected_volume_name/...}
...and then refer to things using names relative to $dir.
People have been doing things like that for half a century now.
It's relaly not that hard.
- Dan C.
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| From | Bart <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 17:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <1113s0b$3f4nm$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #400127 |
On 19/06/2026 17:31, Dan Cross wrote: > In article <1113kuc$3cklj$2@dont-email.me>, Bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote: >> On 19/06/2026 12:46, David Brown wrote: >>> On 19/06/2026 11:42, Bart wrote: >>>> On 19/06/2026 07:56, David Brown wrote: >>>>> [snip] >>>>> Drive letters make sense when users wanted to distinguish between >>>>> their 3.5" floppy "A:" and their 5.25" floppy "B:". They were still >>>>> usable when you had a hard drive with one partition. Once it was >>>>> realistic to have two drives in the one PC, and more than one >>>>> partition on a disk, they were outdated and too restrictive for comfort. >>>> >>>> How would you distinguish between two floppy drives on a Unix-like >>>> file system? >>> >>> To be honest, I have never come across the need. In my university days >>> (with SunOS, then Solaris) the machines did not have floppies - most did >>> not even have hard disks. By the time I started using Linux, at about >>> the turn of the century, floppies were out of fashion. >>> >>>> If writing a common shell script for other people to use on their own >>>> machines, would you be able to use the same designations? >>> >>> Filesystems are mounted on *nix systems. The exact placement of mount >>> points varies, as does the extent to which attached filesystems are >>> automounted, or the user is informed and given a choice, or mounting is >>> manual. Different *nix systems have different habits, and in Linux it >>> can vary by distro or desktop. And then administrators or users can >>> have their own choices. >>> >>> Hardware is different - if I need to use a floppy these days, it would >>> be via a USB floppy drive. More realistically, people would use USB >>> memory sticks now. But someone might have several USB mass storage >>> devices attached - I would not presume to know which they want to use >>> for this script or program. So I would say the script should either >>> require a path (for file / directory access - and I can't think why it >>> would be limited to a floppy), or a device name (for something like a >>> flash image writer). It would likely be better to have a gui or menu >>> choice for some programs. Getting lists of the available block devices, >>> mounted systems, filesystem types, etc., and detailed information about >>> the devices, is not hard on Linux - but I don't know how portable that >>> might be to other *nix systems. >> >> If you plug in a USB pen drive on Windows, it will be under a drive >> letter, but that it is not guaranteed to be consistent, especially if >> you plug in more than one. >> >> So that is a problem. It would be useful, IMV, if the USB sockets were >> labeled with specific letters. > > Why letters and not descriptive volume names? These are letters that are physical labels next to each socket. If I give instructions to somebody to use physical socket 'A', they can do that even if the machine is powered off. If I look at the back of my TV, I have HDMI sockets marked 1, 2, 3. The same numbering appears on the on-screen A/V menu. It's simple and it works. Content- or device-related labels can be shown too interrogated from whatever is plugged-in and active (that is, on-screen), but that is secondary. Of course, when there are no dedicated cables and it is all wireless, then it gets harder and not so simple.
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 18:54 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <xfgZR.162792$WQ_e.40848@fx14.iad> |
| In reply to | #400128 |
Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes: >On 19/06/2026 17:31, Dan Cross wrote: t know how portable that >>>> might be to other *nix systems. >>> >>> If you plug in a USB pen drive on Windows, it will be under a drive >>> letter, but that it is not guaranteed to be consistent, especially if >>> you plug in more than one. >>> >>> So that is a problem. It would be useful, IMV, if the USB sockets were >>> labeled with specific letters. >> >> Why letters and not descriptive volume names? > >These are letters that are physical labels next to each socket. If I have two USB floppy drives plugged into a windows box, which one is A and which one is B? There are no labels on the drives.
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| From | cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 19:58 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <111471b$h98$1@reader1.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #400128 |
In article <1113s0b$3f4nm$1@dont-email.me>, Bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>On 19/06/2026 17:31, Dan Cross wrote:
>> [snip]
>> Why letters and not descriptive volume names?
>
>These are letters that are physical labels next to each socket.
Not on my system.
>If I
>give instructions to somebody to use physical socket 'A', they can do
>that even if the machine is powered off.
Huh. Kinda hard to access the files on the "A:" drive when the
system is powered off. I would find it frustrating to type
commands to a machine that isn't even running.
>If I look at the back of my TV, I have HDMI sockets marked 1, 2, 3. The
>same numbering appears on the on-screen A/V menu. It's simple and it works.
So the Unix scheme assigns each floppy drive a number. The only
substantive difference is that with Unix, you `mount` the
filesystem on the removable drive onto some directory, making
the files on that floppy appear as part of the global file
namespace.
>Content- or device-related labels can be shown too interrogated from
>whatever is plugged-in and active (that is, on-screen), but that is
>secondary.
>
>Of course, when there are no dedicated cables and it is all wireless,
>then it gets harder and not so simple.
None of this has to do with `fopen`.
- Dan C.
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| From | Bart <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 21:15 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <111481a$3ioc8$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #400138 |
On 19/06/2026 20:58, Dan Cross wrote: > In article <1113s0b$3f4nm$1@dont-email.me>, Bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote: >> On 19/06/2026 17:31, Dan Cross wrote: >>> [snip] >>> Why letters and not descriptive volume names? >> >> These are letters that are physical labels next to each socket. > > Not on my system. This was hypothetical. That is, if USB sockets were labeled like my HDMI example and those letters or numbers appeared also on menus. >> If I >> give instructions to somebody to use physical socket 'A', they can do >> that even if the machine is powered off. > > Huh. Kinda hard to access the files on the "A:" drive when the > system is powered off. This is about plugging in the device, like I can plug in my PCV to HDMI1 when the TV is still turned off. > I would find it frustrating to type > commands to a machine that isn't even running. >> If I look at the back of my TV, I have HDMI sockets marked 1, 2, 3. The >> same numbering appears on the on-screen A/V menu. It's simple and it works. > > So the Unix scheme assigns each floppy drive a number. The only > substantive difference is that with Unix, you `mount` the > filesystem on the removable drive onto some directory, making > the files on that floppy appear as part of the global file > namespace. > >> Content- or device-related labels can be shown too interrogated from >> whatever is plugged-in and active (that is, on-screen), but that is >> secondary. >> >> Of course, when there are no dedicated cables and it is all wireless, >> then it gets harder and not so simple. > > None of this has to do with `fopen`. Yet it hasn't stopped you having your say about a topic before declaring it as off-topic.
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| From | cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 22:09 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1114en5$rfs$1@reader1.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #400141 |
In article <111481a$3ioc8$3@dont-email.me>, Bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>On 19/06/2026 20:58, Dan Cross wrote:
>> In article <1113s0b$3f4nm$1@dont-email.me>, Bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>>> On 19/06/2026 17:31, Dan Cross wrote:
>>>> [snip]
>>>> Why letters and not descriptive volume names?
>>>
>>> These are letters that are physical labels next to each socket.
>>
>> Not on my system.
>
>This was hypothetical. That is, if USB sockets were labeled like my HDMI
>example and those letters or numbers appeared also on menus.
Those would probably be numbered, not identified by letters. I
have never seen someone label USB ports like that.
>>> If I
>>> give instructions to somebody to use physical socket 'A', they can do
>>> that even if the machine is powered off.
>>
>> Huh. Kinda hard to access the files on the "A:" drive when the
>> system is powered off.
>
>This is about plugging in the device, like I can plug in my PCV to HDMI1
>when the TV is still turned off.
I thought it was about naming conventions and shell scripts.
Before that, it was about `fopen`.
>> I would find it frustrating to type
>> commands to a machine that isn't even running.
>
>>> If I look at the back of my TV, I have HDMI sockets marked 1, 2, 3. The
>>> same numbering appears on the on-screen A/V menu. It's simple and it works.
>>
>> So the Unix scheme assigns each floppy drive a number. The only
>> substantive difference is that with Unix, you `mount` the
>> filesystem on the removable drive onto some directory, making
>> the files on that floppy appear as part of the global file
>> namespace.
>>
>>> Content- or device-related labels can be shown too interrogated from
>>> whatever is plugged-in and active (that is, on-screen), but that is
>>> secondary.
>>>
>>> Of course, when there are no dedicated cables and it is all wireless,
>>> then it gets harder and not so simple.
>>
>> None of this has to do with `fopen`.
>
>Yet it hasn't stopped you having your say about a topic before declaring
>it as off-topic.
Hey, it's not my fault if Unix is too hard for you to understand
or use. *shrug*
- Dan C.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-20 03:00 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1114vnl$3odnn$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #400124 |
On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 15:49:48 +0100, Bart wrote: > So, what's it like under Linux: if I plug a pen drive into my RPi, > then the files will be at: > > /media/bart/EEBEBEBEC313CA9B > > Obviously. By default it’s using the device serial number to create a unique name. > If I try another, then it's at /media/bart/NEW (note these are > case-sensitive) ... It is possible to set up things to be case-insensitive, if you want.
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| From | Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 10:33 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <1113ugn$3fu46$1@kst.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #400120 |
Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
[...]
> How would you distinguish between two floppy drives on a Unix-like
> file system?
>
> If writing a common shell script for other people to use on their own
> machines, would you be able to use the same designations?
I'd ask in a forum that discusses Unix-like systems, not one that
discusses the C programming language.
fopen() takes a pointer to a string as its first argument.
The requirements for that string are system-specific.
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */
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| From | Bart <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 19:04 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11140b9$3gi30$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #400130 |
On 19/06/2026 18:33, Keith Thompson wrote: > Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes: > [...] >> How would you distinguish between two floppy drives on a Unix-like >> file system? >> >> If writing a common shell script for other people to use on their own >> machines, would you be able to use the same designations? > > I'd ask in a forum that discusses Unix-like systems, not one that > discusses the C programming language. Here's the thing: this is thread that has been wildly off-topic for nearly 100 posts, even aside from the other off-topic threads. Yet you pick on MY post and tell only ME to move the discussion elsewhere. Why?
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 18:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <tggZR.162793$WQ_e.128314@fx14.iad> |
| In reply to | #400131 |
Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes: >On 19/06/2026 18:33, Keith Thompson wrote: >> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes: >> [...] >>> How would you distinguish between two floppy drives on a Unix-like >>> file system? >>> >>> If writing a common shell script for other people to use on their own >>> machines, would you be able to use the same designations? >> >> I'd ask in a forum that discusses Unix-like systems, not one that >> discusses the C programming language. > >Here's the thing: this is thread that has been wildly off-topic for >nearly 100 posts, even aside from the other off-topic threads. > >Yet you pick on MY post and tell only ME to move the discussion elsewhere. perhaps it is because _you_ are most often the poster who moves the thread off-topic?
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| From | Bart <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 21:07 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11147i6$3ioc8$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #400135 |
On 19/06/2026 19:55, Scott Lurndal wrote: > Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes: >> On 19/06/2026 18:33, Keith Thompson wrote: >>> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes: >>> [...] >>>> How would you distinguish between two floppy drives on a Unix-like >>>> file system? >>>> >>>> If writing a common shell script for other people to use on their own >>>> machines, would you be able to use the same designations? >>> >>> I'd ask in a forum that discusses Unix-like systems, not one that >>> discusses the C programming language. >> >> Here's the thing: this is thread that has been wildly off-topic for >> nearly 100 posts, even aside from the other off-topic threads. >> >> Yet you pick on MY post and tell only ME to move the discussion elsewhere. > > perhaps it is because _you_ are most often the poster who > moves the thread off-topic? After nearly 100 posts made by other people? Bastard.
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-20 13:53 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <1115v01$1h73$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #400135 |
On 19/06/2026 20:55, Scott Lurndal wrote: > Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes: >> On 19/06/2026 18:33, Keith Thompson wrote: >>> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes: >>> [...] >>>> How would you distinguish between two floppy drives on a Unix-like >>>> file system? >>>> >>>> If writing a common shell script for other people to use on their own >>>> machines, would you be able to use the same designations? >>> >>> I'd ask in a forum that discusses Unix-like systems, not one that >>> discusses the C programming language. >> >> Here's the thing: this is thread that has been wildly off-topic for >> nearly 100 posts, even aside from the other off-topic threads. >> >> Yet you pick on MY post and tell only ME to move the discussion elsewhere. > > perhaps it is because _you_ are most often the poster who > moves the thread off-topic? At the risk of speculating on Keith's motives, I think it is far simpler. Bart asked how he would do something that was not C related, and Keith suggested he asked in a newsgroup where the question was topical. That strikes me as perfectly reasonable, but it triggered Bart's paranoia.
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