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Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ?

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On 11/02/17 19:02, void wrote:
> On Saturday, February 11, 2017 at 4:18:14 PM UTC+1, James R. Kuyper
> wrote:
>> On 02/11/2017 07:25 AM, void wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 9:47:50 AM UTC+1, David Brown
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 07/02/17 17:14, MehdiAmini wrote:
>> ...
>>>>> I like C90 better than C99 or C11.
>>>> 
>>>> Why?  What are you trying to achieve here?  If you are learning
>>>> C, then you need to learn the C that people use - which is
>>>> mostly C99, with a small amount of C11 in some cases, and a
>>>> small amount of C90 for code that needs maximal portability or
>>>> for maintaining old code.
>>> 
>>> C90 is fully implemented by most popular compilers while C99 and
>>> C11 don't. Thus K&R is the only common denomiator for C
>>> programmers and by far cheaper than any ISO paper. Once more new
>>> features aren't outstanding...
>> 
>> C99 has been amended by three technical corrigenda, each of which 
>> specified the changes to be made to C99. However, it has never been
>>  officially released with those changes made. n1256.pdf is an
>> unofficial (but still ISO) draft of what C99 would look like with
>> those changes, making it paradoxically more useful than any
>> official version of C99. It contains only one known error relative
>> to it's official base documents, and is absolutely free. How could
>> K&R be cheaper than that?
>> 
>> n1570.pdf is almost identical to the final C2011 standard, having
>> only one known error, and is also available for free.
>> 
> 
> Drafts can give C programmers a quick view on new features but these
> documents are incomplete descriptions of future standards.

As James said, the drafts of the C standards (C99 and C11) are /almost
identical/ to the final versions.  They are not "incomplete
descriptions", nor are they for "future standards".  In the case of
N1570, there is /one/ minor difference between the freely available
"draft" and the expensive final release - out of some 700 pages.

And these are not "future standards", but real, existing and implemented
standards.  Most serious C compilers implement practically all of C99
(with the major exception of MSVC, though I believe it is better than it
used to be).  Newer versions of gcc and clang support practically all of
C11.  Some parts of the standards are dependent on the library rather
than the compiler.

> Of course,
> there are free of charge (minus your ISP provider cost) because there
> are working document in progress. Who would pay for incomplete
> products? I personally used draft of C9x and rationales (very
> educative to understand the C library implementation) to learn C90
> wich could be enough to begin C programming. Later I bought K&R
> because I prefer to get the C Bible at hand when I need to clear or
> complete my knowledge. People should know that a physical book is a
> true portable document contrarily to a digital book chained to a
> reader with digital restrictions management.

The draft standards have no DRM.  To my knowledge, the pdf files are
completely unrestricted and follow the ISO pdf standards, and work fine
with a wide variety of pdf readers.

> 
>> C99 is almost completely implemented by all of the popular
>> compilers. If one of those compilers isn't installed, I would
>> pressure the SAs to install it. If a feature I'd like to use isn't
>> implemented, I'd pressure the implementor to add that feature. I
>> don't see a point in insisting on conforming to an ancient version
>> of the standard when it's entirely feasible to use almost the
>> entirety of C99 on almost all platforms.
>> 
>> Unless, of course, someone else requires you to write code which 
>> "complies" with C90, as I am, for one of the two projects I work on
>>  (more precisely, it must "comply" with C95 == C90 + two technical
>>  corrigenda).
> 
> C99 may be almost completely implemented by popular compilers but
> that doesn't mean that C99 features are required by all C
> programmers. Actually I prefer to comply to C90 most of the time or
> C95 for i18n support and C99 for big integers. Actually, writing C90
> code doesn't prevent you from using C99 compilers. ;-)
> 

I don't use every feature of C90 in my programming - does that mean I
should use K&R C instead?  Your "argument" here is just silly.

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Thread

Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? MehdiAmini <atorrses@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 14:09 +0330
  Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-07 12:17 +0100
    Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? MehdiAmini <atorrses@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 19:44 +0330
      Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-08 09:47 +0100
        Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? void <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 04:25 -0800
          Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-11 10:18 -0500
            Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? void <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 10:02 -0800
              Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-11 10:32 -0800
                Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? void <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 11:17 -0800
                Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-11 11:46 -0800
                Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? void <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 12:25 -0800
                Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-11 13:29 -0800
                Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-02-11 22:59 +0000
                Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? Tim Prince <tprince@computer.org> - 2017-02-11 18:14 -0500
                Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 04:08 +0100
                Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? Flippie Flink <flip@flink.not> - 2017-02-11 23:44 +0100
              Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-11 13:36 -0500
                Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? Tim Prince <tprince@computer.org> - 2017-02-11 18:21 -0500
              Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-13 13:56 +0100
                Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 14:06 +0100
                Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-13 15:05 +0100
                Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-13 10:38 -0500
            Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-12 01:38 -0600
              Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-12 09:47 -0500
            Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-12 14:15 -0800
            Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-02-14 12:25 +0000
              Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-14 11:55 -0500
                Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-14 09:30 -0800
              Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-14 09:06 -0800
                Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-02-15 21:04 +0000
          Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-11 08:58 -0800
          Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-02-14 12:23 +0000
            Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 14:08 +0100
          Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? Robert Latest <boblatest@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-19 11:13 +0000
            Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-19 07:36 -0800
              Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-19 10:18 -0800
      Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-09 08:15 -0800
  Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-07 08:35 -0800
  Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2017-02-12 00:01 -0400
    Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? MehdiAmini <atorrses@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 08:32 +0330
      Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2017-02-12 01:55 -0400
      Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-12 09:50 -0500
        Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2017-02-12 14:45 -0400
  Re: Is it legal to download K&R from this site ? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 09:33 -0800

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