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| From | Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: Fair, truly random random number generator |
| Date | 2016-11-04 11:55 -0700 |
| Organization | None to speak of |
| Message-ID | <lnins3vzup.fsf@kst-u.example.com> (permalink) |
| References | (3 earlier) <nvbcu4$fjm$1@dont-email.me> <01bf1ea3-23bf-4c46-8d1e-506ad6dbfa81@googlegroups.com> <nvgmb9$63r$1@dont-email.me> <lnlgx0xcvx.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <581ccbda.4974046@news.xs4all.nl> |
raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) writes:
> Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> wrote:
>> "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>> [...]
>> > This is why I think race-conditions in multi-threaded programs can be
>> > considered random in the sense that its damn near impossible to hit a
>> > defined period of repetition.
>>
>> That's not all that "random" means. It might be very difficult to
>> predict the next -- well, whatever numeric value you might derive from a
>> race condition. But if it's possible to make *some* prediction at rates
>> better than chance, it's not random.
>
> That would mean that a stochastic, but bell-shaped distribution isn't
> random. I don't think you're entirely wrong, but you're not entirely
> right, either.
Agreed. What I should have said is that multithreaded timings might be
difficult to predict, but that doesn't make them *usefully* random.
There might be ways to generate, say, linearly distributed pseudo-random
numbers from the timings, but I'd be afraid that someone might find a
way to predict the results.
The word "random" is too often used as a synonym for "arbitrary".
[...]
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
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Fair, truly random random number generator "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 20:31 +0800
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-10-28 07:48 -0500
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 21:07 +0800
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-28 14:21 +0100
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 16:22 +0100
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-28 16:30 +0100
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 16:32 +0100
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-10-29 23:11 +0800
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-31 11:17 +0000
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-10-31 20:14 +0800
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2016-10-31 12:32 +0000
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-31 12:48 +0000
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-01 15:30 +0800
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-31 12:47 +0000
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-10-28 09:32 -0500
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 07:14 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-10-28 18:07 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-11-01 17:45 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-01 18:57 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-02 10:06 +0100
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-11-02 04:46 -0600
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-02 05:06 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-02 13:43 +0100
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-02 06:02 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-02 16:08 +0100
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-02 08:21 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator Mark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-02 08:20 -0500
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-11-03 17:56 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-03 18:16 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-11-03 18:48 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-04 09:17 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-11-04 17:59 +0000
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-04 11:55 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-11-04 12:43 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-11-04 12:40 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-04 12:49 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-11-04 13:23 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-04 13:32 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator ImperiusDamian <damianblack.wolf@gmail.com> - 2016-11-05 18:48 -0400
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-05 16:03 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-11-05 16:50 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator ImperiusDamian <damianblack.wolf@gmail.com> - 2016-11-05 19:52 -0400
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-05 17:06 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-10-29 23:13 +0800
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2016-10-29 12:12 -0400
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-10-30 00:22 +0800
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2016-10-29 12:26 -0400
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-29 09:44 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-11-01 08:13 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-01 08:31 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-11-02 12:58 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-29 12:37 -0400
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-29 11:57 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-10-30 17:13 +0100
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-10-30 11:07 -0600
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-30 12:20 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-31 11:18 +0000
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator Ed Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2016-11-03 10:39 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-03 11:13 -0700
[OT] gigawatts = gigaseconds correlation? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-04 02:36 +0800
Re: [OT] gigawatts = gigaseconds correlation? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-03 12:07 -0700
Re: [OT] gigawatts = gigaseconds correlation? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-04 12:02 +0800
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2016-11-03 19:56 +0000
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-11-03 16:21 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-29 14:49 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-10-29 15:29 -0700
Re: Fair, truly random random number generator Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-10-29 19:09 -0700
Thank you all for the replies! "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-10-31 18:42 +0800
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