Re: Short-circuiting in C

From	Dr Nick <3-nospam@temporary-address.org.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Short-circuiting in C
Date	2011-06-11 17:07 +0100
Message-ID	<878vt8tkqq.fsf@temporary-address.org.uk> (permalink)
References	(1 earlier) <ln62oxw829.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <irmcij$ro9$1@speranza.aioe.org> <irmuo5$u9t$1@dont-email.me> <is3f5c$cp1$6@blue.rahul.net> <is43cg$bkl$1@dont-email.me>

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Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> writes:

> On 5/31/2011 3:22 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
>> In article<irmuo5$u9t$1@dont-email.me>,
>> Eric Sosman<esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid>  wrote:
>>>
>>>      C has no way to express the computation you desire. ...
>>
>> See my previous post.  OP is working with a cpu that doesn't
>> have multiple threads of execution, per se, but does have
>> parallel threads of computation.
>
>     C has no way to express "parallel threads of computation"
> (except in the restrictive senses of volatile variables and
> asynchronous signals).
>
>> Imagine:
>>
>> 	a = x1 * x2 + x3;
>> 	b = y1 * y2 + y3;
>> 	c = z1 * z2 + z3;
>>
>> I've worked on a CPU that could compute those three expressions
>> in perfect parallel.  We made sure our compiler recognized cases
>> like this and optimized accordingly.
>
>     Fine: Your compiler made promises that are not made by C and
> are not expressible in C.  There's nothing preventing you from
> making such promises, and in the right circumstances such promises
> are useful and laudable.  But they're *your* promises, not C's,
> and compilers other than your own are under no obligation to pay
> the slightest heed to them.  C has no way to tell those other
> compilers about a desire for parallelism, nor any means to detect
> a promise broken.
>
>> I think OP's problem is that the (a&&  b&&  c) short-circuiting
>> is preventing the compiler from computing those values in
>> parallel.  That's really a failure on the compiler's part, but
>> OP is hoping there's a way to hint to the compiler that
>> short-circuiting is not necessary.
>>
>> And yes, without extending the language, there's no way to
>> *force* the compiler to compute that stuff in parallel.
>
>     Exactly.  The O.P. needs something other than C, or something
> in addition to C.

To be fair, and I know I'm coming late to the party, the OP was asking
"is there a way to express what C usually does by a && b && c that
doesn't do the short-circuiting behaviour" and then explained why.  That
seemed an entirely reasonable question about C.  People suggested
several ways and all pointed out that this couldn't guarantee it (and
also that a really good compiler for his platform could cope with a && b
&& c in the way he wanted).
-- 
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Thread

Short-circuiting in C Billy Mays <noway@nohow.com> - 2011-05-26 13:58 -0400
  Re: Short-circuiting in C Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2011-05-26 11:09 -0700
    Re: Short-circuiting in C Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2011-05-26 20:22 +0200
      Re: Short-circuiting in C Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2011-05-26 11:35 -0700
        Re: Short-circuiting in C falk@rahul.net (Edward A. Falk) - 2011-05-31 18:45 +0000
          Re: Short-circuiting in C Nizumzen <chicken@mcnuggets.com> - 2011-05-31 20:31 +0100
      Re: Short-circuiting in C Billy Mays <noway@nohow.com> - 2011-05-26 14:51 -0400
        Re: Short-circuiting in C Billy Mays <noway@nohow.com> - 2011-05-26 15:10 -0400
          Re: Short-circuiting in C Billy Mays <noway@nohow.com> - 2011-05-26 21:35 -0400
            Re: Short-circuiting in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-26 23:38 -0700
              Re: Short-circuiting in C Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-05-27 09:28 -0400
          Re: Short-circuiting in C falk@rahul.net (Edward A. Falk) - 2011-05-31 19:01 +0000
            Re: Short-circuiting in C falk@rahul.net (Edward A. Falk) - 2011-05-31 19:02 +0000
        Re: Short-circuiting in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-26 12:55 -0700
          Re: Short-circuiting in C Billy Mays <noway@nohow.com> - 2011-05-26 16:17 -0400
            Re: Short-circuiting in C Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-05-26 21:28 -0400
              Re: Short-circuiting in C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-27 05:06 +0000
              Re: Short-circuiting in C Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2011-05-27 17:48 +0200
                Re: Short-circuiting in C Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-05-27 21:31 -0400
              Re: Short-circuiting in C blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-05-28 03:28 +0000
                Re: Short-circuiting in C Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-05-27 23:43 -0400
                Re: Short-circuiting in C blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-05-28 19:31 +0000
                Re: Short-circuiting in C Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-05-30 00:28 -0700
                Re: Short-circuiting in C BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-30 23:08 -0700
                Re: Short-circuiting in C Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-05-31 18:30 -0700
                Re: Short-circuiting in C BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-02 09:08 -0700
                Re: Short-circuiting in C Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-05-28 14:08 +0100
                Re: Short-circuiting in C BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-28 12:52 -0700
              Re: Short-circuiting in C falk@rahul.net (Edward A. Falk) - 2011-05-31 19:22 +0000
                Re: Short-circuiting in C Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-05-31 21:07 -0400
                Re: Short-circuiting in C Dr Nick <3-nospam@temporary-address.org.uk> - 2011-06-11 17:07 +0100
                Re: Short-circuiting in C Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-11 12:57 -0500
  Re: Short-circuiting in C "Morris Keesan" <mkeesan@post.harvard.edu> - 2011-05-26 14:36 -0400
  Re: Short-circuiting in C "Scott Fluhrer" <sfluhrer@ix.netcom.com> - 2011-05-26 14:39 -0400
    Re: Short-circuiting in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-26 13:28 -0700
      Re: Short-circuiting in C Urist Sethkab <uristqwerty@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 15:34 -0700
        Re: Short-circuiting in C "Scott Fluhrer" <sfluhrer@ix.netcom.com> - 2011-05-27 10:08 -0400
          Re: Short-circuiting in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-27 07:56 -0700
          Re: Short-circuiting in C Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-27 20:14 -0700
            Re: Short-circuiting in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-27 20:26 -0700
              Re: Short-circuiting in C Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-27 20:44 -0700
  Re: Short-circuiting in C Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-05-27 00:06 +0100
    Re: Short-circuiting in C Billy Mays <noway@nohow.com> - 2011-05-26 21:34 -0400
      Re: Short-circuiting in C Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-05-27 07:41 +0100
  Re: Short-circuiting in C Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-05-26 21:21 -0400
  Re: Short-circuiting in C Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 20:41 -0500
    Re: Short-circuiting in C Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 21:03 -0500
      Re: Short-circuiting in C Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 21:37 -0500
  Re: Short-circuiting in C ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-05-27 09:01 -0700
    Re: Short-circuiting in C Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2011-05-27 16:08 +0000
      Re: Short-circuiting in C ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-05-27 09:46 -0700
        Re: Short-circuiting in C BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-28 13:27 -0700
  Re: Short-circuiting in C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-05-28 09:44 -0400
    Re: Short-circuiting in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-28 12:15 -0700
      Re: Short-circuiting in C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-05-28 17:07 -0400
  Re: Short-circuiting in C "Herbert Rosenau" <os2guy@pc-rosenau.de> - 2011-05-29 07:25 +0000
  Re: Short-circuiting in C falk@rahul.net (Edward A. Falk) - 2011-05-31 18:40 +0000
    Re: Short-circuiting in C BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-02 09:48 -0700
      Re: Short-circuiting in C Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-06-02 21:05 -0400

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