Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
| From | Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" |
| Date | 2014-12-13 14:04 +0000 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <8761df7iji.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink) |
| References | <m6anq6$9rl$1@dont-email.me> <84754f1b-790f-46f4-88f7-bcd64fd97f6a@googlegroups.com> <m6h41j$afv$1@reader1.panix.com> <eDUiw.105382$be7.2881@fx14.am4> |
BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
> On 13/12/2014 10:22, JohnF wrote:
<snip>
>> ... See, e.g., the Conclusions
>> section of http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/wadler/papers/frege/frege.pdf
>> (and note that it was written in 2000).
>
>> Nothing I've ever programmed comes anywhere close to utilizing
>> these kinds of techniques. But I can't help wondering if I'm like
>> a Pony Express rider coming across his first railroad.
>> If stuff like that is what the 21st century is about, then
>> procedural languages like C probably won't be very relevant anymore.
>
> They'll be relevant for a while longer since fewer can understand
> those more complicated languages (that paper was complete gobbledygook
> to me, and I can't be the only one. But also I'm against the kind of
> elitism that wants only mathematicians to be allowed to program.).
How do you feel about the kind that wants only some programmers to be
allowed to use mathematics?
I'm being rhetorical of course. I am sure you are fair about it, but
here is a big streak of anti-intellectualism in some programming circles
that tries to deny that mathematical thinking is central to programming.
(And this does not mean there isn't a big streak of elitism in some
programming circles that claims you have no place writing a while loop
if you don't know what a Y combinator is, but the nature of the business
is such that the latter seems to me to be smaller and less influential
than the former.)
> In terms of encouraging people to take up coding (especially
> children), procedural methods are simple and intuitive.
It may be a good way in (though I would like to see alternatives tried)
but it's clear from experience that this form of intuition very quickly
stops being enough. Bugs abound in even the simplest code and many
people have no handle at all on how to write anything but the simplest
correct parallel or concurrent programs.
I say "this form of intuition" because I think there are other modes of
thought that might be exploited to make programming in other styles seem
natural. For example, decoupling an algorithm from an exact sequence
of actions can make some programs very simple:
sort one = one
sort list = merge (sort odd-members-of list) (sort even-members-of list)
where merge a,... b,... = if a < b then a, merge ... b,...
otherwise b, merge a,... ...
(using an invented notation that leaves the details out).
Much fun can be had getting a class to do a parallel sort of a pack of
cards using this method. To be honest, it usually ends up in chaos (use
just one suit and you have a better chance of success) because people
lose track of who gave them what piles of cards and who should be given
the results, but the effect is often sound -- it becomes clear that it
would work, with enough practise.
<snip>
--
Ben.
Back to comp.lang.c | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
"Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2014-12-10 18:17 -0600
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" G G <gdotone@gmail.com> - 2014-12-10 22:55 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-11 09:01 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-16 02:41 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-16 11:08 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-16 13:06 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-16 13:14 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-16 07:29 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-16 16:23 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-16 17:23 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-16 18:06 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-17 07:35 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-17 16:01 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-18 10:30 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2014-12-20 18:45 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-20 11:58 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Thomas Jahns <jahns@idontlikespam.dkrz.de> - 2014-12-12 11:15 +0100
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 04:11 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" "ocq (an evil corporate man)" <ocq@maili.ng> - 2014-12-11 17:36 +0100
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:44 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" "ocq (an evil corporate man)" <ocq@maili.ng> - 2014-12-11 17:53 +0100
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 09:57 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-11 15:21 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" "ocq (an evil corporate man)" <ocq@maili.ng> - 2014-12-12 11:14 +0100
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-11 05:06 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 05:48 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 06:17 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" JohnF <john@please.see.sig.for.email.com> - 2014-12-13 10:22 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-13 10:34 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-13 14:04 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-13 07:42 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-13 20:52 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-14 00:23 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-14 12:07 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-14 13:20 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-14 22:43 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 01:33 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-15 02:39 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-15 03:16 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-15 17:24 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 18:01 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 14:25 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2014-12-16 08:46 -0500
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 05:59 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2014-12-17 08:21 -0500
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-17 07:27 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-16 14:29 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2014-12-16 08:51 -0500
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-16 14:30 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-15 10:02 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2014-12-14 00:36 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-14 01:22 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2014-12-14 07:35 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2014-12-14 04:39 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-12-14 08:14 -0500
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-14 08:02 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-16 04:52 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-13 06:39 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2014-12-13 15:57 -0600
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-15 09:51 -0600
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2014-12-15 20:30 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-15 21:29 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-15 21:23 -0600
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-16 04:14 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-16 09:11 -0600
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-16 13:13 -0600
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-16 19:27 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-16 16:11 -0600
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-16 14:39 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-16 18:25 -0600
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-16 05:13 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 07:28 -0800
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-12-11 17:29 +0100
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Jens Stuckelberger <Jens_Stuckelberger@nowhere.net> - 2014-12-11 17:59 +0000
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-12-11 19:05 +0100
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" Rosario193 <Rosario@invalid.invalid> - 2014-12-12 11:37 +0100
Re: "Is C Still Relevant in the 21st Century?" John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 10:49 -0800
csiph-web