Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments

From	Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments
Date	2015-06-02 11:06 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<874mmq4e77.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References	(8 earlier) <ce45f467-6f93-415e-b23f-abd26728bf7e@googlegroups.com> <874mmsh71s.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <60286786-f055-4e03-b904-65b7de764273@googlegroups.com> <87a8wj3r1e.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <mkjt2g$5va$1@dont-email.me>

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Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> writes:

> On 02/06/2015 01:14, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>> (1) I thought this was trivial because I read # as ##. My error. Of
>>> course, I can't. # Only means something in a macro with arguments.
>>> Having never used # I haven't thought about it and how, if possible,
>>> to do it without the #
>>
>> So do you still think that # is useful (and hence you accept that macro
>> arguments are useful) or do you think # can be thrown under the bus just
>> to your desire to avoid macros with arguments?
>
> Clearly # isn't useful if it's only meaningful for macro arguments and
> the aim is to avoid macro arguments.

Yes, clearly.  I don't think we disagree on this.  David Kleinecke said
that macro arguments are not needed but also that # and ## (as
*operators*) are useful.  He says he read # as ##, but that does not
clear up what he thinks about uses of # -- it just means he's not yet
said anything about it having misread it as ##.  Is using # an exception
to his silly rule about macros with arguments or does he think it's not
useful?  I may, one day, find out.

<snip>
>>> (2) I don't see why the general way of removing arguments wont work
>>>
>>>      #define B_1 PAT_ ## X__
>>>      #define B_2 PAT_ ## __X
>>>      #define B 0x ## B_1 ## B_2
>>>
>>> I did that in a hurry and may have made mistakes but you get the
>>> general idea.
>>
>> No, I don't.  I asked because I can't see the genera idea of how to
>> avoid the perfectly innocent feature that you've arbitrarily decided to
>> rule out.  I need you to explain how to do it (ideally with code, so
>> everyone can compare the two).
>
> Macro arguments would be avoided in the same way they would be in any
> other language without macro arguments. He's already given
> alternatives for MAX.

MAX does not use ## so it can't possibly help explain DK's position
here.  DK (a) thinks # and ## are useful (though maybe only ##); (b)
does not want to change C; and (c) says that macros arguments are not
needed.  This is the puzzle.

By the way, do you agree with DK about any of these points?  Do you
actually agree that his frankly daft alternative to MAX makes the code
better?

<snip>
-- 
Ben.

Thread

Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 10:36 -0700
  Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-29 19:04 +0100
    Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 07:30 -0700
      Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-30 15:51 +0100
  Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-05-29 19:26 +0100
    Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 07:38 -0700
      Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-05-30 21:44 +0100
        Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-30 23:58 +0100
          Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-05-31 00:27 +0100
            Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-31 10:21 +0100
              Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-05-31 11:00 +0100
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-31 09:45 -0700
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-31 18:20 +0100
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-31 13:04 -0700
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2015-05-31 16:11 -0400
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-31 21:48 +0100
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-31 14:22 -0700
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 11:33 -0700
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-05-31 20:37 +0100
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-31 14:18 -0700
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-05-31 22:44 +0100
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-31 23:16 +0100
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 11:58 -0700
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-02 01:14 +0100
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-02 10:31 +0100
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-02 11:06 +0100
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-02 11:39 +0100
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-02 04:02 -0700
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-02 12:24 +0100
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2015-06-02 15:41 +0200
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-02 15:00 +0100
                Re: Trolls/Cranks/Kooks Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2015-06-02 16:41 +0200
                Re: Trolls/Cranks/Kooks Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-02 15:56 +0100
                Re: Trolls/Cranks/Kooks Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2015-06-02 17:09 +0200
                Re: Trolls/Cranks/Kooks Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-02 16:17 +0100
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-02 15:58 +0100
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Dr Nick <nospam-4@temporary-address.org.uk> - 2015-06-02 19:32 +0100
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-02 11:00 -0700
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-02 20:13 +0100
      Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-30 15:17 -0700
        Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-31 09:12 -0700
          Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-31 13:29 -0700
      Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-31 17:28 +0200
  Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-05-29 13:35 -0500
  Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-05-29 13:19 -0700
    Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-05-29 13:25 -0700
  Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2015-05-29 14:23 -0600
  Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-29 14:16 -0700
    Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 07:46 -0700
      Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2015-05-30 18:28 -0400
        Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-31 09:27 -0700
          Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-31 17:59 +0100
            Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 11:24 -0700
              Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-01 12:15 -0700
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 12:21 -0700
                Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-01 12:53 -0700
          Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-31 13:36 -0700
          Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-31 23:26 +0200
            Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-05-31 23:09 +0100
            Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2015-05-31 15:51 -0700
              Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 12:08 -0700
        Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-01 12:38 -0400
          Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Dr Nick <nospam-4@temporary-address.org.uk> - 2015-06-01 19:20 +0100
          Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 12:18 -0700
      Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-30 15:43 -0700
        Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-31 09:32 -0700
  Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-29 22:07 -0500
  Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2015-05-30 09:22 -0700
    Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-05-30 14:22 -0500
      Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-30 21:29 +0100
        Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-05-30 22:15 -0500
          Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-06-08 20:16 -0500
  Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-31 17:32 +0200
  Re: Making C more beautiful by not using macros with arguments Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-01 22:51 +0100

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