Re: #include <stdint.h>

From	Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: #include <stdint.h>
Date	2021-09-30 07:07 -0700
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<86h7e2tawh.fsf@linuxsc.com> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <874kdnw20s.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <86sg0l6uza.fsf@linuxsc.com> <87mtqs5vre.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <86h7gu7dki.fsf@linuxsc.com> <87a6mm2gzj.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>

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Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> writes:

> Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> writes:
>> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> writes:
>>> Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> writes:
> [...]
>>>> Basically the question boils down to what is meant by the
>>>> somewhat vague phrase "the correct type".  I believe that phrase
>>>> is meant to refer to the rules of 7.16.1.1.  If you want to say
>>>> there's an ambiguity about what is meant, certainly I could agree
>>>> with that.  For purposes of posting in comp.lang.c, my usual rule
>>>> is to judge the language according to what meaning is intended,
>>>> and since here we are in agreement about what is intended here we
>>>> are not in conflict.  Whether the C standard "actually says" that
>>>> the va_arg rules apply to *printf functions is, I think, not
>>>> an answerable question, and in any case not really a useful
>>>> question for purposes of comp.lang.c.  I am glad we agree about
>>>> what rule is intended, and IMO that is really all that matters
>>>> for the present discussion.
>>>
>>> I mostly agree, but I disagree with your statement about the va_arg
>>> rules applying to *printf.
>>>
>>> The standard doesn't say that the *printf functions use va_arg.  The
>>> question of whether the standard *actually says* that va_arg rules
>>> apply to *printf functions is, I think, answerable, and the answer
>>> is no.
>>>
>>> Whether that matters is another question, but surely a question
>>> about whether the standard says something can be resolved by reading
>>> the standard.
>>
>> I think you misunderstood what I was saying.  There is no
>> question about what words are present.  What the words mean is
>> another story.  In many cases if not most cases the meaning
>> of sentences written in English is at least partly subjective.
>> That is the case here.  To talk about what the words "actually
>> say" is to talk about meaning, and here the meaning is
>> ambiguous.  The phrase "the correct type" is not well-defined.
>> In fact, since it has not been given an explicit definition,
>> someone might conclude that a *printf format that needs any
>> arguments at all will necessarily lead to undefined behavior.
>> I think you want to ascribe some sort of objective meaning
>> to the text, but the use of the undefined phrase "the correct
>> type" makes that impossible.
>
> I think it's not so much misunderstanding as disagreement.
>
> You wrote:
>
>     Whether the C standard "actually says" that the va_arg rules apply
>     to *printf functions is, I think, not an answerable question, and in
>     any case not really a useful question for purposes of comp.lang.c.
>
> I simply disagree.  It is an answerable question, [...]

The question I am considering does not have an objective answer.
Did you not understand that?

Thread

#include <stdint.h> SIMON <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-06-13 23:08 +0100
  Re: #include <stdint.h> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-06-13 23:27 +0100
    Re: #include <stdint.h> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-06-13 23:57 +0100
      Re: #include <stdint.h> Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2021-06-14 09:03 +0200
        Re: #include <stdint.h> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-06-14 01:23 -0700
          Re: #include <stdint.h> Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2021-06-14 12:31 +0200
        Re: #include <stdint.h> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-06-14 11:54 +0100
  Re: #include <stdint.h> James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-06-13 18:34 -0400
  Re: #include <stdint.h> Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-06-13 23:34 +0100
  Re: #include <stdint.h> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-06-13 17:48 -0700
    Re: #include <stdint.h> Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2021-06-14 09:09 +0200
      Re: #include <stdint.h> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-06-14 01:24 -0700
        Re: #include <stdint.h> Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2021-06-14 12:30 +0200
    Re: #include <stdint.h> Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-06-24 10:31 -0700
      Re: #include <stdint.h> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-06-24 11:28 -0700
        Re: #include <stdint.h> Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-07-11 02:49 -0700
          Re: #include <stdint.h> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 15:30 -0700
            Re: #include <stdint.h> Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-07-16 03:33 -0700
              Re: #include <stdint.h> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-07-16 12:31 -0700
                Re: #include <stdint.h> Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-09-30 07:07 -0700
                Re: #include <stdint.h> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-09-30 08:42 -0700
                Re: #include <stdint.h> Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-10-06 03:55 -0700
                Re: #include <stdint.h> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-06 07:06 -0700
                Re: #include <stdint.h> James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-06 11:47 -0400
        Re: #include <stdint.h> Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2021-10-06 09:35 -0700
          Re: #include <stdint.h> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-06 10:06 -0700
          Re: #include <stdint.h> James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-06 17:40 -0400
            Re: #include <stdint.h> Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-06 22:14 +0000
              Re: #include <stdint.h> James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-06 20:06 -0400
                Re: #include <stdint.h> Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-07 02:15 +0000
      Re: #include <stdint.h> Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-06-24 22:34 +0100
        Re: #include <stdint.h> Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2021-06-24 15:01 -0700
          Re: #include <stdint.h> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-06-24 15:26 -0700
        Re: #include <stdint.h> Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-07-11 02:14 -0700

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