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Re: Malloc Query

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On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 07:19:28AM -0400, James Kuyper wrote:
> On 05/23/2011 02:20 PM, Uncle Steve wrote:
> > On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 07:24:11PM +1200, Ian Collins wrote:
> >> On 05/23/11 05:57 PM, Uncle Steve wrote:
> ...
> >>> For my purposes, it is
> >>> sometimes nice to write a macro which uses conditionals to select a
> >>> particular code path through the macro.  If the conditional can be
> >>> resolved at compile-time, the dead code branches in the macro are
> >>> pruned, saving space.  A similarly structured function call won't be
> >>> optimized in this fashion unless (maybe) it is inlined.
> >>
> >> Why not?  Whether the function is called or in line, the conditional 
> >> compiles are still there.
> > 
> > A function is only inlined if it is defined in the same source file.
> 
> Not quite - it only has to be in the same translation unit. A
> translation unit consists of a given source file plus all of the other
> files merged into it by #include statements. The use of the function
> must also occur within the scope of the inline declaration, which
> basically means that the declaration should occur prior to the use.
> These requirements also apply to macros, though the scope rules are a
> bit different for them.

Sorry, I'm not up on the technical nomenclature pertinent to
compilers.  I *meant* to say 'translation unit', but all my brain had
was 'source file'.
 
> > If you define a function in an external source file, it cannot be
> > inlined anywhere else unless the function is also defined in an
> > included header file.  Doesn't everyone know this?
> 
> If you replace your function-like macro, wherever it is that you have it
> defined, with an inline function definition in that same location, that
> function will be usable pretty much wherever the the macro was usable.
> It's probably feasible to come up with pathological contexts where a
> simple in-place replacement won't work, but such contexts are not the norm.

Agreed.
 
> >> Inlining is a very simple optimisation.  You also overlook the opposite 
> > 
> > No it isn't.
> 
> Perhaps not, but it's one that most popular modern compilers do
> routinely and very well; that's part of what makes them popular.

Inline functions are easy to use, but who can measure the performance
advantage of inlining versus the code size tradeoff?  I have no idea
how to accurately measure and quantify the real advantages, which may
be different for every architecture and application.  I suspect the
trend of blindly setting CFLAGS=-O9, which is not all that uncommon in
makefiles, masks a profound ignorance of what really goes on in a
running program.  I also suspect that the complex interaction of
compile and run-time factors defies simplistic optimization
heuristics.

> >> optimisation - not inlining.  There are situations where a smaller 
> >> executable performs better (or even fit the target device!).  The 
> > 
> > In <a8a6d14a9ed9b70-0c8ce@gmail.com> I wrote:
> > 
> > 	Whether or not the code is inlined is going to depend more on
> > 	whether you are interested in performance or code size.
> > 
> > Fitting code in some machines' L1 cache is harder with a lot of
> > gratuitous inlining, and you also pollute the l2 cache.  Sometimes
> > this matters, and sometimes not.  All highly dependent on the
> > specifics of the code and platform.
> 
> Any decent compiler can be relied upon to take those issues into
> consideration when deciding whether or not to inline a function. This is
> something it can decide, independently of whether or not the function is
> declared inline. As far as actual inlining is concerned, the 'inline'
> keyword is only a hint, which a compiler is free to ignore; and it's
> perfectly legal for a compiler to decide to inline a function that is
> not declared 'inline', as long as doing so doesn't change the observable
> behavior. In fact, that was one of the arguments given against the
> introducing of the 'inline' keyword. Any static function written to meet
> the same special requirements that currently apply to 'inline' functions
> could already have been inlined, even if not so declared, so long as the
> compiler thought that doing so would be a good idea.

At least these compilers allow one to individually tune the
optimization characteristic of the compilation process.  If you don't
want inlining, it's trivial to turn it off.
 
> Unless you know a lot more about the target platform than your compiler
> does, it's probably best to rely upon it to make inlining decisions.

All things being equal, that is decent advice.

> Defining a function (whether or not you use 'inline') gives it that
> option. Defining it as a function-like macro does not - it only allows
> inlining. Well, technically, I suppose a sufficiently sophisticated
> compiler could perform anti-inlining: recognizing a common code pattern,
> and replacing it wherever used with a call to a compiler-generated
> function definition. The fact that the common code was the result of a
> macro expansion would make it easier to recognize the feasibility of
> such an optimization. However, and it seems to me to be a harder
> optimization to perform than inlining, and I doubt that it is a common
> feature even of the most sophisticated compilers.

That kind of optimization would be the comp-sci equivalent of gilding
the lily.



Regards,

Uncle Steve

-- 
Should a professional politician be charged with molestation if he
kisses babies while attending political rallies?

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Malloc Query Pushpa <pushpa@nospam.invalid> - 2011-05-17 19:39 +0000
  Re: Malloc Query blp@cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff) - 2011-05-17 12:55 -0700
    Re: Malloc Query "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-05-18 12:05 +0100
      Re: Malloc Query Pushpa <pushpa@nospam.invalid> - 2011-05-18 17:11 +0000
        Re: Malloc Query "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-05-18 22:42 +0100
        Re: Malloc Query Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-05-18 21:10 -0400
      Re: Malloc Query Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-05-18 19:34 +0100
        Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-18 17:10 -0400
          Re: Malloc Query Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-05-19 00:26 +0100
            Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-18 21:25 -0400
              Re: Malloc Query James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-05-18 21:38 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-19 14:11 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-05-19 22:55 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-20 12:14 -0400
              Re: Malloc Query Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-05-19 03:22 +0100
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-19 14:20 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-05-19 23:51 +0100
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-19 20:01 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query luser- -droog <mijoryx@yahoo.com> - 2011-05-22 02:49 -0700
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 10:46 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 12:37 -0500
                Re: Malloc Query Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 13:02 -0500
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 14:12 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 03:06 -0500
                Re: Malloc Query luser- -droog <mijoryx@yahoo.com> - 2011-05-23 00:42 -0700
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 11:10 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-23 09:06 -0700
                Re: Malloc Query Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-05-22 23:18 +0100
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 19:18 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-23 11:22 +1200
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 01:57 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-23 19:24 +1200
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 14:20 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-24 07:41 +1200
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 16:24 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-24 09:20 +1200
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 18:05 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-24 10:37 +1200
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 19:34 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query "robertwessel2@yahoo.com" <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-05-23 17:48 -0700
                Re: Malloc Query Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-24 12:56 +1200
                Re: Malloc Query James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-05-24 07:19 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 11:32 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-05-23 01:04 +0100
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 02:36 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query luser- -droog <mijoryx@yahoo.com> - 2011-05-23 00:39 -0700
                Re: Malloc Query Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-05-23 14:44 +0100
                Re: Malloc Query Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-23 15:16 +0000
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 11:41 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2011-06-01 16:33 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-19 18:34 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-05-20 02:36 +0100
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-20 12:26 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-05-20 23:32 +0100
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-20 21:17 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-21 14:30 +1200
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-21 11:13 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-22 08:50 +1200
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-21 20:03 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-22 13:23 +1200
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 10:01 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-05-26 08:12 +0200
                Re: Malloc Query Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-26 19:16 +1200
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 15:03 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-27 09:16 +1200
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 17:55 -0400
                Re: Malloc Query "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-05-27 05:47 +0200
                Re: Malloc Query Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 15:02 -0400
        Re: Malloc Query "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-05-18 22:31 +0100
          Re: Malloc Query Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-05-18 23:37 +0100
            Re: Malloc Query "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-05-19 01:50 +0100
              Re: Malloc Query Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-05-19 02:50 +0100
                Re: Malloc Query "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-05-19 12:14 +0100
                Re: Malloc Query Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-05-19 15:10 +0100
                Re: Malloc Query "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-05-19 15:48 +0100
      Re: Malloc Query cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-05-18 19:31 +0000
      Re: Malloc Query Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2011-05-18 21:43 +0000
        Re: Malloc Query "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-05-18 22:58 +0100
  Re: Malloc Query Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2011-05-17 14:01 -0600
  Re: Malloc Query Columbus sailed the ocean China Blue <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-05-17 13:21 -0700
  Re: Malloc Query BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-17 14:08 -0700
    Re: Malloc Query Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-05-17 19:49 -0700
  Re: Malloc Query Lauri Alanko <la@iki.fi> - 2011-05-18 00:50 +0000
  Re: Malloc Query Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-05-17 21:21 -0400
    Re: Malloc Query "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-05-18 19:31 +0200
    Re: Malloc Query Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-05-18 21:36 +0000
      Re: Malloc Query Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-05-18 21:26 -0400
    Re: Malloc Query Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2011-05-19 02:07 -0700
      Re: Malloc Query Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-19 21:13 +1200
  Re: Malloc Query Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-05-18 07:08 +0100
  Re: Malloc Query David Resnick <lndresnick@gmail.com> - 2011-05-19 07:51 -0700
    Re: Malloc Query Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2011-05-19 09:12 -0600

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