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Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System

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On 11/18/2011 07:24 AM, Phil Carmody wrote:
> James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> writes:
...
>> I hope you're not suggesting that the fact that free(), realloc() and
>> fclose() can only occur explicitly somehow makes it trivial to ensure
>> that they have not yet been called for a given pointer? If that were the
>> case, garbage collection wouldn't be as popular an extension as it is.
>> Even in single-threaded code it takes a certain amount of discipline to
>> ensure that a pointer is not used after the memory it points to has been
>> free()d.
> 
> That's the fallacy of the hasty generalisation. Whilst /in general/ it's
> hard to ensure all pointers are treated safely, that doesn't mean for every
> single pointer it's hard.

I never meant to suggest that it's always hard. The origin of this
discussion was a general comment that "Pass-by-reference and threads
aren't known to play well" - I don't think it would appropriate to
interpret a comment so casually worded, as having been meant in an
absolute sense. That comment, in turn, was in response to proposals to
solve Quentin's problem by dynamically allocating memory to store the
file descriptor in. I don't think Quentin's description of the problem
was ever sufficiently specific to allow us to conclude that this would
have been an easy solution.

>> When possible, I try to make sure that pointers into dynamically
>> allocated memory are stored only in automatic objects whose lifetime
>> ends immediately after the call to free(), rendering it impossible for
>> such problems to occur. However, it's not always possible to impose such
>> restrictions. When I can't do that, I insert code setting the pointer to
>> NULL immediately after the free(). However, to be helpful, that requires
>> that I protect all problematic uses of such a pointer with tests to
>> determine whether it's null.
> 
> That started off sounding like good defensive programming, but as the
> issue in question was having multiple pointers to the same block of
> memory, resetting and checking the pointer is not a solution.

I don't think multiple pointers to the same block of memory has ever
been brought up in the messages leading to this one.  You are, of
course, perfectly correct that the solution is not sufficient for that
case. Options include nulling all of the saved pointers, or designating
one particular pointer (most reasonably, the one that free() will be
applied to) which must be checked to make sure it's not null before
using any of the others. There's other, more complicated solutions
possible, depending upon the nature of the problem. The key point is
that, one way or another, if a stored pointer has a possibility of being
de-referenced when invalid, something must be done to remove that
possibility. That constrains designs in ways that make them harder to
write, harder to read, possibly less efficient, and more prone to error.


>> When the expressions p=malloc(), *p=3, x=*p, and free(p) occur in two or
>> more different threads executing asynchronously, it seems to me that it
>> would be all that much harder to ensure that they occur only in the
>> proper order. I'm not saying it's impossible - just that it's harder.
>> Though Ian has assured me that this is not the case, I don't quite see
>> how that could be.
> 
> If the creator is tasked with freeing the memory, then clearly some
> synchronisation is required. However, it the thread is tasked with the
> free, then none is required (and the creator may defensively NULL the
> pointer it no longer may assume is valid).

I was talking about pointers to memory that are shared between threads;
you're talking about the simpler case where a pointer to dynamically
allocated memory is passed between threads, but is never in use by two
of them at the same time. That's certainly a safer approach, but I doubt
that it's always acceptable to impose such constraints on how the
pointer is used.

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Thread

Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Quentin Pope <qp19433@hotmail.NOSPAM.com> - 2011-11-10 20:21 +0000
  Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Lauri Alanko <la@iki.fi> - 2011-11-10 20:29 +0000
    Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-11-10 20:51 +0000
      Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-11-10 20:58 +0000
      Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-10 16:08 -0500
        Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-11-10 21:35 +0000
          Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-10 17:18 -0500
            Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-11-10 23:14 +0000
              Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2011-11-10 19:36 -0500
  Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2011-11-10 12:32 -0800
    Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-10 15:44 -0500
    Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-11-10 12:58 -0800
      Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-11-17 15:53 +0000
  Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-11-10 20:45 +0000
    Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-11-10 21:00 +0000
  Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2011-11-10 15:14 -0700
  Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-11 11:22 +1300
    Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2011-11-14 11:10 -0800
      Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-15 08:28 +1300
        Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-14 14:48 -0500
          Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-15 10:15 +1300
            Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-11-14 22:18 +0100
              Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-15 10:26 +1300
            Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-14 16:46 -0500
              Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-15 10:58 +1300
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-14 17:15 -0500
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System blp@cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff) - 2011-11-14 14:18 -0800
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-15 11:29 +1300
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-14 18:14 -0500
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-14 23:01 +0000
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-11-16 10:39 +0200
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-16 20:18 +0000
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201111.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2011-11-17 02:54 +0100
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System pete <pfiland@mindspring.com> - 2011-11-16 21:29 -0500
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-17 02:31 +0000
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-11-18 14:31 +0200
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-11-17 02:44 +0000
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2011-11-16 21:33 -0700
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-11-17 04:01 +0100
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-11-17 15:46 +0000
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-17 18:48 +0000
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-11-18 14:48 +0000
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-15 14:37 +1300
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-11-16 10:23 +0200
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-16 06:53 -0500
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-16 11:15 -0500
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-16 17:08 +0000
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-11-18 15:09 +0200
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-11-18 14:24 +0200
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-18 10:08 -0500
                Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-11-18 17:52 +0200
            Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2011-11-14 15:45 -0700
  Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System "christian.bau" <christian.bau@cbau.wanadoo.co.uk> - 2011-11-10 15:19 -0800
    Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-11-10 23:41 +0000
      Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-11-10 20:48 -0800
      Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System "christian.bau" <christian.bau@cbau.wanadoo.co.uk> - 2011-11-14 03:39 -0800
        Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Lauri Alanko <la@iki.fi> - 2011-11-14 13:08 +0000
          Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-14 09:21 -0500
        Re: Typecasting Pointers on a 64 bit System Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-11-14 12:54 -0800

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