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About Flibble

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  About Flibble Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2023-01-02 01:22 +0000
    Re: About Flibble "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-01-02 18:39 +0100
      Re: About Flibble Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2023-01-02 18:08 +0000
    Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-02 21:41 -0800
      Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-02 21:43 -0800
        Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-02 21:44 -0800
    Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-04 00:59 -0800
    Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-11 23:13 -0800
      Re: About Flibble Stuart Redmann <DerTopper@web.de> - 2023-01-13 07:19 +0100
        Re: About Flibble Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-01-13 10:15 +0000
        Re: About Flibble Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-13 14:29 +0000
        Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-13 13:43 -0800
          Re: About Flibble Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-01-14 09:52 +0000
            Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-14 14:44 -0800
              Re: About Flibble David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-16 11:37 +0100
                Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-16 11:45 -0800
                  Re: About Flibble Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2023-01-16 20:49 +0000
                    Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-18 00:02 -0800
                      Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-18 00:04 -0800
                Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-16 11:52 -0800
                  Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-16 11:57 -0800
          Re: About Flibble David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-16 11:32 +0100
            Re: About Flibble Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-01-16 11:31 +0000
              Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-16 11:51 -0800
                Re: About Flibble Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-01-17 09:34 +0000
                  Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-17 12:36 -0800
                    Re: About Flibble Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-01-18 09:27 +0000
                      Re: About Flibble Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2023-01-18 16:22 +0100
                      Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-18 11:56 -0800
                        Re: About Flibble scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-01-18 20:00 +0000
                          Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-18 12:11 -0800
                            Re: About Flibble David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-18 21:17 +0100
                              Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-18 12:35 -0800
                                Re: About Flibble David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-19 08:55 +0100
                                  Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-23 20:11 -0800
                                    Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-23 20:12 -0800
                              Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-18 12:37 -0800
                              Re: About Flibble Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-01-18 15:30 -0800
                                Re: About Flibble David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-19 08:55 +0100
                                Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-19 12:16 -0800
                          Re: About Flibble Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-01-19 09:33 +0000
                            Re: About Flibble David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-19 15:28 +0100
                              Re: About Flibble scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-01-19 14:57 +0000
            Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-16 11:46 -0800
        Re: About Flibble Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2023-01-14 19:24 +0000
      Re: About Flibble Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2023-01-14 19:24 +0000
        Re: About Flibble "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-14 13:13 -0800

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#88349 — About Flibble

I am a Generation X white male aphantasiac with self-diagnosed Asperger's. 
Bite me.

Message ends.

/Flibble

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#88356

On 2 Jan 2023 02:22, Mr Flibble wrote:
> I am a Generation X white male aphantasiac with self-diagnosed Asperger's.

TIL: (Wikipedia) "Aphantasia is the inability to visualize. Otherwise 
known as image-free thinking. People with aphantasia don't create any 
pictures of familiar objects, people, or places in their mind's eye. Not 
for thoughts, memories, or images of the future. We lack this 
quasi-perceptual “picture-it” system completely."

Oh. Developing a graphical user interface framework with focus on visual 
effects and color support while lacking the ability to visualize. That's 
impressive! :-o

- Alf

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#88357

On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 18:39:24 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> On 2 Jan 2023 02:22, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> I am a Generation X white male aphantasiac with self-diagnosed
>> Asperger's.
> 
> TIL: (Wikipedia) "Aphantasia is the inability to visualize. Otherwise
> known as image-free thinking. People with aphantasia don't create any
> pictures of familiar objects, people, or places in their mind's eye. Not
> for thoughts, memories, or images of the future. We lack this
> quasi-perceptual “picture-it” system completely."
> 
> Oh. Developing a graphical user interface framework with focus on visual
> effects and color support while lacking the ability to visualize. That's
> impressive! :-o

I have to think in terms of abstractions instead; luckily being a 
programmer mathematics helps out as it is used to abstract many real world 
concepts.

/Flibble

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#88360

On 1/1/2023 5:22 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> I am a Generation X white male aphantasiac with self-diagnosed Asperger's.
> Bite me.

[...]

Why does it sure seem as if a lot of people with engineers diease are 
very smart?

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#88361

On 1/2/2023 9:41 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 1/1/2023 5:22 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> I am a Generation X white male aphantasiac with self-diagnosed 
>> Asperger's.
>> Bite me.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Why does it sure seem as if a lot of people with engineers diease are 
> very smart?

Heck, look up Temple Grandin! A very smart person, indeed!

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#88362

On 1/2/2023 9:43 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 1/2/2023 9:41 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 1/1/2023 5:22 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>> I am a Generation X white male aphantasiac with self-diagnosed 
>>> Asperger's.
>>> Bite me.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> Why does it sure seem as if a lot of people with engineers diease are 
>> very smart?
> 
> Heck, look up Temple Grandin! A very smart person, indeed!

https://www.templegrandin.com

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#88391

On 1/1/2023 5:22 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> I am a Generation X white male aphantasiac with self-diagnosed Asperger's.
> Bite me.
> 
> Message ends.
[...]

I got a little taste of the msvc debugger today...

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#88491

On 1/1/2023 5:22 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> I am a Generation X white male aphantasiac with self-diagnosed Asperger's.
> Bite me.
> 
> Message ends.

The god damn MSVC debugger is messed up pretty bad! Got another taste of it!

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#88492

Chris M. Thomasson <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/1/2023 5:22 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> I am a Generation X white male aphantasiac with self-diagnosed Asperger's.
>> Bite me.
>> 
>> Message ends.
> 
> The god damn MSVC debugger is messed up pretty bad! Got another taste of it!
> 
> 

Care to elaborate? I think that the Visual Studios debugging capabilities
are outstanding because of the ability to add custom debug visualization.
This is possible using a rather rich extension interface (badly documented,
though). It enables us to export our data (2D geometries like polygons,
line strings, etc.) into an external viewer with a simple mouse click. It
can‘t get more convenient than that.

Regards,
Stuart 

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#88499

On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 07:19:45 +0100
Stuart Redmann <DerTopper@web.de> wrote:
>Chris M. Thomasson <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 1/1/2023 5:22 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>> I am a Generation X white male aphantasiac with self-diagnosed Asperger's.
>>> Bite me.
>>> 
>>> Message ends.
>> 
>> The god damn MSVC debugger is messed up pretty bad! Got another taste of it!
>> 
>> 
>
>Care to elaborate? I think that the Visual Studios debugging capabilities
>are outstanding because of the ability to add custom debug visualization.
>This is possible using a rather rich extension interface (badly documented,
>though). It enables us to export our data (2D geometries like polygons,
>line strings, etc.) into an external viewer with a simple mouse click. It
>can‘t get more convenient than that.

The sort of people who write extensions to editors and debuggers obviously
don't have enough real work to do.

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#88510

On 13/01/2023 06:19, Stuart Redmann wrote:
> Care to elaborate? I think that the Visual Studios debugging capabilities
> are outstanding because of the ability to add custom debug visualization.
> This is possible using a rather rich extension interface (badly documented,
> though). It enables us to export our data (2D geometries like polygons,
> line strings, etc.) into an external viewer with a simple mouse click. It
> can‘t get more convenient than that.
>
>

I think he was sarcastic about Flibble's health issues but I won't say 
more because I could be wrong.

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#88513

On 1/12/2023 10:19 PM, Stuart Redmann wrote:
> Chris M. Thomasson <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 1/1/2023 5:22 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>> I am a Generation X white male aphantasiac with self-diagnosed Asperger's.
>>> Bite me.
>>>
>>> Message ends.
>>
>> The god damn MSVC debugger is messed up pretty bad! Got another taste of it!
>>
>>
> 
> Care to elaborate? 

> I think that the Visual Studios debugging capabilities
> are outstanding because of the ability to add custom debug visualization.
> This is possible using a rather rich extension interface (badly documented,
> though). It enables us to export our data (2D geometries like polygons,
> line strings, etc.) into an external viewer with a simple mouse click. It
> can‘t get more convenient than that.

A line of code would push_back an element into a std::vector. The damn 
debugger would show that the vector contained no elements, however, one 
was there. Then there are other oddities.

I have never had this problem with MSVC before.

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#88517

On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 13:43:06 -0800
"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 1/12/2023 10:19 PM, Stuart Redmann wrote:
>> Chris M. Thomasson <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 1/1/2023 5:22 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>> I am a Generation X white male aphantasiac with self-diagnosed Asperger's.
>>>> Bite me.
>>>>
>>>> Message ends.
>>>
>>> The god damn MSVC debugger is messed up pretty bad! Got another taste of it!
>
>>>
>>>
>> 
>> Care to elaborate? 
>
>> I think that the Visual Studios debugging capabilities
>> are outstanding because of the ability to add custom debug visualization.
>> This is possible using a rather rich extension interface (badly documented,
>> though). It enables us to export our data (2D geometries like polygons,
>> line strings, etc.) into an external viewer with a simple mouse click. It
>> can‘t get more convenient than that.
>
>A line of code would push_back an element into a std::vector. The damn 
>debugger would show that the vector contained no elements, however, one 
>was there. Then there are other oddities.
>
>I have never had this problem with MSVC before.

I don't know about VS, but if you use heavy optimisation with gcc then gdb
will often lose the plot when stepping and examining variables. Perhaps that 
was the issue you had?

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#88521

On 1/14/2023 1:52 AM, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 13:43:06 -0800
> "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 1/12/2023 10:19 PM, Stuart Redmann wrote:
>>> Chris M. Thomasson <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 1/1/2023 5:22 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>> I am a Generation X white male aphantasiac with self-diagnosed Asperger's.
>>>>> Bite me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Message ends.
>>>>
>>>> The god damn MSVC debugger is messed up pretty bad! Got another taste of it!
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Care to elaborate?
>>
>>> I think that the Visual Studios debugging capabilities
>>> are outstanding because of the ability to add custom debug visualization.
>>> This is possible using a rather rich extension interface (badly documented,
>>> though). It enables us to export our data (2D geometries like polygons,
>>> line strings, etc.) into an external viewer with a simple mouse click. It
>>> can‘t get more convenient than that.
>>
>> A line of code would push_back an element into a std::vector. The damn
>> debugger would show that the vector contained no elements, however, one
>> was there. Then there are other oddities.
>>
>> I have never had this problem with MSVC before.
> 
> I don't know about VS, but if you use heavy optimisation with gcc then gdb
> will often lose the plot when stepping and examining variables. Perhaps that
> was the issue you had?
> 

In debug mode.

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#88538

On 14/01/2023 23:44, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 1/14/2023 1:52 AM, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 13:43:06 -0800
>> "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 1/12/2023 10:19 PM, Stuart Redmann wrote:
>>>> Chris M. Thomasson <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 1/1/2023 5:22 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>> I am a Generation X white male aphantasiac with self-diagnosed 
>>>>>> Asperger's.
>>>>>> Bite me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Message ends.
>>>>>
>>>>> The god damn MSVC debugger is messed up pretty bad! Got another 
>>>>> taste of it!
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Care to elaborate?
>>>
>>>> I think that the Visual Studios debugging capabilities
>>>> are outstanding because of the ability to add custom debug 
>>>> visualization.
>>>> This is possible using a rather rich extension interface (badly 
>>>> documented,
>>>> though). It enables us to export our data (2D geometries like polygons,
>>>> line strings, etc.) into an external viewer with a simple mouse 
>>>> click. It
>>>> can‘t get more convenient than that.
>>>
>>> A line of code would push_back an element into a std::vector. The damn
>>> debugger would show that the vector contained no elements, however, one
>>> was there. Then there are other oddities.
>>>
>>> I have never had this problem with MSVC before.
>>
>> I don't know about VS, but if you use heavy optimisation with gcc then 
>> gdb
>> will often lose the plot when stepping and examining variables. 
>> Perhaps that
>> was the issue you had?
>>
> 
> In debug mode.

"Debug mode" is mostly a meaningless concept.

Many IDE's set up two different build configurations - one they call 
"Debug" with low optimisation and lots of debugger information, and one 
they call "Release" with high optimisation and little debugger 
information.  But there is not really such a thing as "optimised" code 
and "unoptimised" code - compilers can enable or disable different 
passes and different kinds of optimisations.  Some "optimisations" are 
done even when compilers are set to "no optimisation", and some 
optimisation passes that are possible are not done even on "highest 
optimisation" flags.  (And some "optimisations" can make code slower in 
practice.)

At best, "debug mode" reduces the risk of seeing such disconnects 
between the source code and the effect of the object code, but it will 
not eliminate it.

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#88544

On 1/16/2023 2:37 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 14/01/2023 23:44, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 1/14/2023 1:52 AM, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 13:43:06 -0800
>>> "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 1/12/2023 10:19 PM, Stuart Redmann wrote:
>>>>> Chris M. Thomasson <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/1/2023 5:22 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>>> I am a Generation X white male aphantasiac with self-diagnosed 
>>>>>>> Asperger's.
>>>>>>> Bite me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Message ends.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The god damn MSVC debugger is messed up pretty bad! Got another 
>>>>>> taste of it!
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Care to elaborate?
>>>>
>>>>> I think that the Visual Studios debugging capabilities
>>>>> are outstanding because of the ability to add custom debug 
>>>>> visualization.
>>>>> This is possible using a rather rich extension interface (badly 
>>>>> documented,
>>>>> though). It enables us to export our data (2D geometries like 
>>>>> polygons,
>>>>> line strings, etc.) into an external viewer with a simple mouse 
>>>>> click. It
>>>>> can‘t get more convenient than that.
>>>>
>>>> A line of code would push_back an element into a std::vector. The damn
>>>> debugger would show that the vector contained no elements, however, one
>>>> was there. Then there are other oddities.
>>>>
>>>> I have never had this problem with MSVC before.
>>>
>>> I don't know about VS, but if you use heavy optimisation with gcc 
>>> then gdb
>>> will often lose the plot when stepping and examining variables. 
>>> Perhaps that
>>> was the issue you had?
>>>
>>
>> In debug mode.
> 
> "Debug mode" is mostly a meaningless concept.
> 
> Many IDE's set up two different build configurations - one they call 
> "Debug" with low optimisation and lots of debugger information, and one 
> they call "Release" with high optimisation and little debugger 
> information.  But there is not really such a thing as "optimised" code 
> and "unoptimised" code - compilers can enable or disable different 
> passes and different kinds of optimisations.  Some "optimisations" are 
> done even when compilers are set to "no optimisation", and some 
> optimisation passes that are possible are not done even on "highest 
> optimisation" flags.  (And some "optimisations" can make code slower in 
> practice.)
> 
> At best, "debug mode" reduces the risk of seeing such disconnects 
> between the source code and the effect of the object code, but it will 
> not eliminate it.
> 

I have a lot of experience with MSVC. Optimization is disabled in Debug 
mode by default. I have not artificially altered the optimization 
settings. I have never had these problems with the MSVC debugger before. 
Your comment just made me check, and it's disabled in Debug mode. Mr. 
Flibble is right. The debugger is not up to par. Damn.

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#88550

On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 11:45:16 -0800, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:

> On 1/16/2023 2:37 AM, David Brown wrote:
>> On 14/01/2023 23:44, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>> On 1/14/2023 1:52 AM, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 13:43:06 -0800 "Chris M. Thomasson"
>>>> <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 1/12/2023 10:19 PM, Stuart Redmann wrote:
>>>>>> Chris M. Thomasson <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/1/2023 5:22 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>>>> I am a Generation X white male aphantasiac with self-diagnosed
>>>>>>>> Asperger's.
>>>>>>>> Bite me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Message ends.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The god damn MSVC debugger is messed up pretty bad! Got another
>>>>>>> taste of it!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Care to elaborate?
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think that the Visual Studios debugging capabilities are
>>>>>> outstanding because of the ability to add custom debug
>>>>>> visualization.
>>>>>> This is possible using a rather rich extension interface (badly
>>>>>> documented,
>>>>>> though). It enables us to export our data (2D geometries like
>>>>>> polygons,
>>>>>> line strings, etc.) into an external viewer with a simple mouse
>>>>>> click. It can‘t get more convenient than that.
>>>>>
>>>>> A line of code would push_back an element into a std::vector. The
>>>>> damn debugger would show that the vector contained no elements,
>>>>> however, one was there. Then there are other oddities.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have never had this problem with MSVC before.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know about VS, but if you use heavy optimisation with gcc
>>>> then gdb will often lose the plot when stepping and examining
>>>> variables. Perhaps that was the issue you had?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> In debug mode.
>> 
>> "Debug mode" is mostly a meaningless concept.
>> 
>> Many IDE's set up two different build configurations - one they call
>> "Debug" with low optimisation and lots of debugger information, and one
>> they call "Release" with high optimisation and little debugger
>> information.  But there is not really such a thing as "optimised" code
>> and "unoptimised" code - compilers can enable or disable different
>> passes and different kinds of optimisations.  Some "optimisations" are
>> done even when compilers are set to "no optimisation", and some
>> optimisation passes that are possible are not done even on "highest
>> optimisation" flags.  (And some "optimisations" can make code slower in
>> practice.)
>> 
>> At best, "debug mode" reduces the risk of seeing such disconnects
>> between the source code and the effect of the object code, but it will
>> not eliminate it.
>> 
>> 
> I have a lot of experience with MSVC. Optimization is disabled in Debug
> mode by default. I have not artificially altered the optimization
> settings. I have never had these problems with the MSVC debugger before.
> Your comment just made me check, and it's disabled in Debug mode. Mr.
> Flibble is right. The debugger is not up to par. Damn.

As your codebase doesn't look as involved as mine do you think you are in 
a position to create a test case and create a MSVC defect report?  In the 
meantime I recommend downgrading to VS2019.

/Flibble

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#88592

On 1/16/2023 12:49 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 11:45:16 -0800, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> 
>> On 1/16/2023 2:37 AM, David Brown wrote:
>>> On 14/01/2023 23:44, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>>> On 1/14/2023 1:52 AM, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 13:43:06 -0800 "Chris M. Thomasson"
>>>>> <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/12/2023 10:19 PM, Stuart Redmann wrote:
>>>>>>> Chris M. Thomasson <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/1/2023 5:22 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I am a Generation X white male aphantasiac with self-diagnosed
>>>>>>>>> Asperger's.
>>>>>>>>> Bite me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Message ends.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The god damn MSVC debugger is messed up pretty bad! Got another
>>>>>>>> taste of it!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Care to elaborate?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think that the Visual Studios debugging capabilities are
>>>>>>> outstanding because of the ability to add custom debug
>>>>>>> visualization.
>>>>>>> This is possible using a rather rich extension interface (badly
>>>>>>> documented,
>>>>>>> though). It enables us to export our data (2D geometries like
>>>>>>> polygons,
>>>>>>> line strings, etc.) into an external viewer with a simple mouse
>>>>>>> click. It can‘t get more convenient than that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A line of code would push_back an element into a std::vector. The
>>>>>> damn debugger would show that the vector contained no elements,
>>>>>> however, one was there. Then there are other oddities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have never had this problem with MSVC before.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know about VS, but if you use heavy optimisation with gcc
>>>>> then gdb will often lose the plot when stepping and examining
>>>>> variables. Perhaps that was the issue you had?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> In debug mode.
>>>
>>> "Debug mode" is mostly a meaningless concept.
>>>
>>> Many IDE's set up two different build configurations - one they call
>>> "Debug" with low optimisation and lots of debugger information, and one
>>> they call "Release" with high optimisation and little debugger
>>> information.  But there is not really such a thing as "optimised" code
>>> and "unoptimised" code - compilers can enable or disable different
>>> passes and different kinds of optimisations.  Some "optimisations" are
>>> done even when compilers are set to "no optimisation", and some
>>> optimisation passes that are possible are not done even on "highest
>>> optimisation" flags.  (And some "optimisations" can make code slower in
>>> practice.)
>>>
>>> At best, "debug mode" reduces the risk of seeing such disconnects
>>> between the source code and the effect of the object code, but it will
>>> not eliminate it.
>>>
>>>
>> I have a lot of experience with MSVC. Optimization is disabled in Debug
>> mode by default. I have not artificially altered the optimization
>> settings. I have never had these problems with the MSVC debugger before.
>> Your comment just made me check, and it's disabled in Debug mode. Mr.
>> Flibble is right. The debugger is not up to par. Damn.
> 
> As your codebase doesn't look as involved as mine do you think you are in
> a position to create a test case and create a MSVC defect report?  In the
> meantime I recommend downgrading to VS2019.

Perhaps... I am working hard on a bone system, to make any model dance. 
I am learning about geometry shaders... MSVC let me down.

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#88593

On 1/18/2023 12:02 AM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 1/16/2023 12:49 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 11:45:16 -0800, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/16/2023 2:37 AM, David Brown wrote:
>>>> On 14/01/2023 23:44, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>>>> On 1/14/2023 1:52 AM, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 13:43:06 -0800 "Chris M. Thomasson"
>>>>>> <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/12/2023 10:19 PM, Stuart Redmann wrote:
>>>>>>>> Chris M. Thomasson <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 1/1/2023 5:22 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I am a Generation X white male aphantasiac with self-diagnosed
>>>>>>>>>> Asperger's.
>>>>>>>>>> Bite me.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Message ends.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The god damn MSVC debugger is messed up pretty bad! Got another
>>>>>>>>> taste of it!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Care to elaborate?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think that the Visual Studios debugging capabilities are
>>>>>>>> outstanding because of the ability to add custom debug
>>>>>>>> visualization.
>>>>>>>> This is possible using a rather rich extension interface (badly
>>>>>>>> documented,
>>>>>>>> though). It enables us to export our data (2D geometries like
>>>>>>>> polygons,
>>>>>>>> line strings, etc.) into an external viewer with a simple mouse
>>>>>>>> click. It can‘t get more convenient than that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A line of code would push_back an element into a std::vector. The
>>>>>>> damn debugger would show that the vector contained no elements,
>>>>>>> however, one was there. Then there are other oddities.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have never had this problem with MSVC before.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know about VS, but if you use heavy optimisation with gcc
>>>>>> then gdb will often lose the plot when stepping and examining
>>>>>> variables. Perhaps that was the issue you had?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> In debug mode.
>>>>
>>>> "Debug mode" is mostly a meaningless concept.
>>>>
>>>> Many IDE's set up two different build configurations - one they call
>>>> "Debug" with low optimisation and lots of debugger information, and one
>>>> they call "Release" with high optimisation and little debugger
>>>> information.  But there is not really such a thing as "optimised" code
>>>> and "unoptimised" code - compilers can enable or disable different
>>>> passes and different kinds of optimisations.  Some "optimisations" are
>>>> done even when compilers are set to "no optimisation", and some
>>>> optimisation passes that are possible are not done even on "highest
>>>> optimisation" flags.  (And some "optimisations" can make code slower in
>>>> practice.)
>>>>
>>>> At best, "debug mode" reduces the risk of seeing such disconnects
>>>> between the source code and the effect of the object code, but it will
>>>> not eliminate it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I have a lot of experience with MSVC. Optimization is disabled in Debug
>>> mode by default. I have not artificially altered the optimization
>>> settings. I have never had these problems with the MSVC debugger before.
>>> Your comment just made me check, and it's disabled in Debug mode. Mr.
>>> Flibble is right. The debugger is not up to par. Damn.
>>
>> As your codebase doesn't look as involved as mine do you think you are in
>> a position to create a test case and create a MSVC defect report?  In the
>> meantime I recommend downgrading to VS2019.
> 
> Perhaps... I am working hard on a bone system, to make any model dance. 
> I am learning about geometry shaders... MSVC let me down.
> 

Trying to stick figure the model in a sense with a fractal shape. Use it 
as bones. The model of the girl is made up of 103 separate meshes, with 
their own indices. Just experimenting along... ;^)

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#88547

On 1/16/2023 2:37 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 14/01/2023 23:44, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 1/14/2023 1:52 AM, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 13:43:06 -0800
>>> "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 1/12/2023 10:19 PM, Stuart Redmann wrote:
>>>>> Chris M. Thomasson <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/1/2023 5:22 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>>> I am a Generation X white male aphantasiac with self-diagnosed 
>>>>>>> Asperger's.
>>>>>>> Bite me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Message ends.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The god damn MSVC debugger is messed up pretty bad! Got another 
>>>>>> taste of it!
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Care to elaborate?
>>>>
>>>>> I think that the Visual Studios debugging capabilities
>>>>> are outstanding because of the ability to add custom debug 
>>>>> visualization.
>>>>> This is possible using a rather rich extension interface (badly 
>>>>> documented,
>>>>> though). It enables us to export our data (2D geometries like 
>>>>> polygons,
>>>>> line strings, etc.) into an external viewer with a simple mouse 
>>>>> click. It
>>>>> can‘t get more convenient than that.
>>>>
>>>> A line of code would push_back an element into a std::vector. The damn
>>>> debugger would show that the vector contained no elements, however, one
>>>> was there. Then there are other oddities.
>>>>
>>>> I have never had this problem with MSVC before.
>>>
>>> I don't know about VS, but if you use heavy optimisation with gcc 
>>> then gdb
>>> will often lose the plot when stepping and examining variables. 
>>> Perhaps that
>>> was the issue you had?
>>>
>>
>> In debug mode.
> 
> "Debug mode" is mostly a meaningless concept.
> 
> Many IDE's set up two different build configurations - one they call 
> "Debug" with low optimisation and lots of debugger information, and one 
> they call "Release" with high optimisation and little debugger 
> information.  But there is not really such a thing as "optimised" code 
> and "unoptimised" code - compilers can enable or disable different 
> passes and different kinds of optimisations.  Some "optimisations" are 
> done even when compilers are set to "no optimisation", and some 
> optimisation passes that are possible are not done even on "highest 
> optimisation" flags.  (And some "optimisations" can make code slower in 
> practice.)
> 
> At best, "debug mode" reduces the risk of seeing such disconnects 
> between the source code and the effect of the object code, but it will 
> not eliminate it.
> 

https://i.ibb.co/SV3dMQ7/image.png

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