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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #86894 > unrolled thread

CHAR_BIT is not eight

Started byFrederick Virchanza Gotham <cauldwell.thomas@gmail.com>
First post2022-10-12 15:57 -0700
Last post2022-10-15 11:34 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 106 — 22 participants

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  CHAR_BIT is not eight Frederick Virchanza Gotham <cauldwell.thomas@gmail.com> - 2022-10-12 15:57 -0700
    Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-10-12 16:01 -0700
    Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-10-12 17:16 -0700
      Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-13 11:38 +0200
      Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-11-16 06:24 -0800
        Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-17 11:04 +0100
          Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-11-17 16:40 +0000
            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-11-17 23:23 -0500
              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-18 08:16 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-11-18 16:33 +0000
                  Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-18 18:54 +0100
              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-11-18 03:47 -0800
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-11-18 14:52 +0000
              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-11-18 16:32 +0000
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-18 19:05 +0100
                  Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-11-18 18:16 +0000
    Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-10-13 08:02 +0000
      Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-13 08:08 +0000
        Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-10-15 11:35 +0200
          Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Frederick Virchanza Gotham <cauldwell.thomas@gmail.com> - 2022-10-15 02:53 -0700
            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-10-15 11:57 +0200
              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Frederick Virchanza Gotham <cauldwell.thomas@gmail.com> - 2022-10-15 03:05 -0700
              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-10-17 06:18 +0000
              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-10-17 15:29 -0500
      Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Frederick Virchanza Gotham <cauldwell.thomas@gmail.com> - 2022-10-13 02:06 -0700
        Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-13 11:42 +0200
          Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-13 15:36 +0000
            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-13 23:06 +0200
              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-13 22:30 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-14 15:27 +0200
                  Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-14 14:47 +0100
                    Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-14 14:58 +0000
                      Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-14 21:01 +0100
                        Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-15 10:28 +0000
                        Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-15 13:39 +0200
                          Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-15 12:45 +0100
                            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-15 15:18 +0000
                              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-15 16:24 +0100
                                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-15 15:34 +0000
                                  Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-15 16:39 +0100
                                    Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-15 15:53 +0000
                                      Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-15 16:55 +0100
                                        Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-15 15:57 +0000
                                          Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-15 16:59 +0100
                                            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-17 15:27 +0000
                                              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-10-17 09:04 -0700
                                                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-17 16:13 +0000
                                                  Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> - 2022-10-17 09:44 -0700
                                                    Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-17 17:47 +0100
                                                      Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-10-18 01:10 +0200
                                                        Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-10-17 16:22 -0700
                                                        Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Paul N <gw7rib@aol.com> - 2022-10-18 05:13 -0700
                                                      Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-18 15:04 +0000
                                                        Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-18 17:40 +0100
                                                          Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-10-18 12:14 -0700
                                                          Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-19 15:12 +0000
                                                            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-10-19 15:35 +0000
                                                              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-20 16:16 +0000
                                  Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-10-15 20:13 +0200
                            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-10-15 20:11 +0200
                              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-15 20:03 +0100
                                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-10-16 07:51 +0200
                            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-16 17:03 +0200
                              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-16 16:34 +0100
                                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-16 18:51 +0200
                                  Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-16 18:11 +0100
                                  Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-16 19:18 +0100
                                    Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-16 22:02 +0200
                                      Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-16 21:19 +0100
                                        Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-10-16 21:24 +0000
                                          Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-10-16 14:38 -0700
                                            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-10-16 14:48 -0700
                                          Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-16 22:39 +0100
                                            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-10-16 23:49 +0000
                                              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-17 09:54 +0200
                                                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-17 17:31 +0100
                                                  Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-17 19:56 +0200
                                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-17 15:29 +0000
                                  Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-17 17:33 +0100
                          Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Frederick Virchanza Gotham <cauldwell.thomas@gmail.com> - 2022-10-15 11:55 -0700
                            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-10-15 13:06 -0700
                              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Frederick Virchanza Gotham <cauldwell.thomas@gmail.com> - 2022-10-15 15:42 -0700
                                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-16 19:10 +0200
                                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2022-10-16 21:28 +0100
                                  Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-17 10:09 +0200
                                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-10-16 13:35 -0700
                                  Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-10-16 13:36 -0700
        Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-11-02 17:46 -0700
      Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-10-13 11:10 +0200
        Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-10-13 10:49 +0000
          Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-10-13 12:05 +0000
            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Frederick Virchanza Gotham <cauldwell.thomas@gmail.com> - 2022-10-13 06:34 -0700
            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-10-13 15:24 +0100
          Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-13 15:59 +0200
            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-10-14 05:54 +0000
              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-10-14 09:16 +0300
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-11-16 05:41 -0800
                  Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-11-16 10:38 -0800
                    Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-12-05 11:42 -0800
                      Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2022-12-06 01:03 -0800
                        Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-12-28 20:49 -0800
              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Frederick Virchanza Gotham <cauldwell.thomas@gmail.com> - 2022-10-14 00:17 -0700
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-14 15:33 +0200
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2022-10-16 21:37 +0100
                  Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-10-17 15:24 -0500
    Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-10-15 11:34 +0200

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#86987

FromMuttley@dastardlyhq.com
Date2022-10-15 15:53 +0000
Message-ID<tiel12$g3n$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#86986
On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 16:39:05 +0100
Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:
>On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 15:34:03 -0000 (UTC)
>Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 16:24:08 +0100
>> Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:
>> >On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 15:18:27 -0000 (UTC)
>> >Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> >  
>> >> On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 12:45:49 +0100
>> >> Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:  
>> >> >On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 13:39:24 +0200
>> >> >David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:    
>> >> >> It's the same in C, of course - call just one little time
>> >> >> conversion function and you can find half your flash is used for
>> >> >> locale handling and time zones.
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> The needs of embedded systems vary enormously - for many, the
>> >> >> cost in code space or run-time efficiency for using a std::list
>> >> >> or std::vector is negligible.  But for others, it is very far
>> >> >> from negligible.
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> (It is relatively rare that you have to worry about /every/
>> >> >> byte of code or data space, however - though it does happen.)
>> >> >>  
>> >> >
>> >> >Try using std::list with a custom allocator as I originally
>> >> >suggested; also your quote of 7KB sounds highly dubious and
>> >> >anecdotal.    
>> >> 
>> >> You really Don't Get It do you? Stick to application programming.  
>> >
>> >Of course I get it, the question is do you?  The only way I can see
>> >using a few methods from std::list taking 7KB of space is the
>> >overhead of exception handling; perhaps Mr Brown should try it again
>> >but with exceptions disabled and a custom allocator that allocates
>> >from an explicit memory pool.  
>> 
>> I've tried to explain it to you, so has he. You've obviously never
>> done embedded dev, yet as usual you seem to assume you're an expert
>> on the matter. Believe what you like. Something to bear in mind is
>> not all compilers and linkers build in the same way as VC or gcc.
>
>I have done embedded dev and I am well aware of its constraints; all

Suuuuuuure you have.

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#86988

FromMr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp>
Date2022-10-15 16:55 +0100
Message-ID<20221015165532.00005ec5@reddwarf.jmc.corp>
In reply to#86987
On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 15:53:06 -0000 (UTC)
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 16:39:05 +0100
> Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:
> >On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 15:34:03 -0000 (UTC)
> >Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> >  
> >> On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 16:24:08 +0100
> >> Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:  
> >> >On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 15:18:27 -0000 (UTC)
> >> >Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> >> >    
> >> >> On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 12:45:49 +0100
> >> >> Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:    
> >> >> >On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 13:39:24 +0200
> >> >> >David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:      
> >> >> >> It's the same in C, of course - call just one little time
> >> >> >> conversion function and you can find half your flash is used
> >> >> >> for locale handling and time zones.
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> The needs of embedded systems vary enormously - for many, the
> >> >> >> cost in code space or run-time efficiency for using a
> >> >> >> std::list or std::vector is negligible.  But for others, it
> >> >> >> is very far from negligible.
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> (It is relatively rare that you have to worry about /every/
> >> >> >> byte of code or data space, however - though it does happen.)
> >> >> >>    
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Try using std::list with a custom allocator as I originally
> >> >> >suggested; also your quote of 7KB sounds highly dubious and
> >> >> >anecdotal.      
> >> >> 
> >> >> You really Don't Get It do you? Stick to application
> >> >> programming.    
> >> >
> >> >Of course I get it, the question is do you?  The only way I can
> >> >see using a few methods from std::list taking 7KB of space is the
> >> >overhead of exception handling; perhaps Mr Brown should try it
> >> >again but with exceptions disabled and a custom allocator that
> >> >allocates from an explicit memory pool.    
> >> 
> >> I've tried to explain it to you, so has he. You've obviously never
> >> done embedded dev, yet as usual you seem to assume you're an expert
> >> on the matter. Believe what you like. Something to bear in mind is
> >> not all compilers and linkers build in the same way as VC or gcc.  
> >
> >I have done embedded dev and I am well aware of its constraints; all
> > 
> 
> Suuuuuuure you have.

You are just showing your ignorance of leveraging C++ in an embedded
environment.

/Flibble

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#86989

FromMuttley@dastardlyhq.com
Date2022-10-15 15:57 +0000
Message-ID<tiel8v$ki6$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#86988
On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 16:55:32 +0100
Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:
>On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 15:53:06 -0000 (UTC)
>Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 16:39:05 +0100
>> Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:
>> >On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 15:34:03 -0000 (UTC)
>> >Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> >  
>> >> On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 16:24:08 +0100
>> >> Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:  
>> >> >On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 15:18:27 -0000 (UTC)
>> >> >Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> >> >    
>> >> >> On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 12:45:49 +0100
>> >> >> Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:    
>> >> >> >On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 13:39:24 +0200
>> >> >> >David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:      
>> >> >> >> It's the same in C, of course - call just one little time
>> >> >> >> conversion function and you can find half your flash is used
>> >> >> >> for locale handling and time zones.
>> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> The needs of embedded systems vary enormously - for many, the
>> >> >> >> cost in code space or run-time efficiency for using a
>> >> >> >> std::list or std::vector is negligible.  But for others, it
>> >> >> >> is very far from negligible.
>> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> (It is relatively rare that you have to worry about /every/
>> >> >> >> byte of code or data space, however - though it does happen.)
>> >> >> >>    
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Try using std::list with a custom allocator as I originally
>> >> >> >suggested; also your quote of 7KB sounds highly dubious and
>> >> >> >anecdotal.      
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> You really Don't Get It do you? Stick to application
>> >> >> programming.    
>> >> >
>> >> >Of course I get it, the question is do you?  The only way I can
>> >> >see using a few methods from std::list taking 7KB of space is the
>> >> >overhead of exception handling; perhaps Mr Brown should try it
>> >> >again but with exceptions disabled and a custom allocator that
>> >> >allocates from an explicit memory pool.    
>> >> 
>> >> I've tried to explain it to you, so has he. You've obviously never
>> >> done embedded dev, yet as usual you seem to assume you're an expert
>> >> on the matter. Believe what you like. Something to bear in mind is
>> >> not all compilers and linkers build in the same way as VC or gcc.  
>> >
>> >I have done embedded dev and I am well aware of its constraints; all
>> > 
>> 
>> Suuuuuuure you have.
>
>You are just showing your ignorance of leveraging C++ in an embedded
>environment.

"Leveraging"? Run out of arguments and now resorting to buzzwords are we? :)

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#86990

FromMr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp>
Date2022-10-15 16:59 +0100
Message-ID<20221015165956.0000489f@reddwarf.jmc.corp>
In reply to#86989
On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 15:57:19 -0000 (UTC)
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 16:55:32 +0100
> Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:
> >On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 15:53:06 -0000 (UTC)
> >Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> >  
> >> On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 16:39:05 +0100
> >> Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:  
> >> >On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 15:34:03 -0000 (UTC)
> >> >Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> >> >    
> >> >> On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 16:24:08 +0100
> >> >> Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:    
> >> >> >On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 15:18:27 -0000 (UTC)
> >> >> >Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> >> >> >      
> >> >> >> On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 12:45:49 +0100
> >> >> >> Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:      
> >> >> >> >On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 13:39:24 +0200
> >> >> >> >David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:        
> >> >> >> >> It's the same in C, of course - call just one little time
> >> >> >> >> conversion function and you can find half your flash is
> >> >> >> >> used for locale handling and time zones.
> >> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> >> The needs of embedded systems vary enormously - for many,
> >> >> >> >> the cost in code space or run-time efficiency for using a
> >> >> >> >> std::list or std::vector is negligible.  But for others,
> >> >> >> >> it is very far from negligible.
> >> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> >> (It is relatively rare that you have to worry about
> >> >> >> >> /every/ byte of code or data space, however - though it
> >> >> >> >> does happen.) 
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Try using std::list with a custom allocator as I originally
> >> >> >> >suggested; also your quote of 7KB sounds highly dubious and
> >> >> >> >anecdotal.        
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> You really Don't Get It do you? Stick to application
> >> >> >> programming.      
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Of course I get it, the question is do you?  The only way I can
> >> >> >see using a few methods from std::list taking 7KB of space is
> >> >> >the overhead of exception handling; perhaps Mr Brown should
> >> >> >try it again but with exceptions disabled and a custom
> >> >> >allocator that allocates from an explicit memory pool.      
> >> >> 
> >> >> I've tried to explain it to you, so has he. You've obviously
> >> >> never done embedded dev, yet as usual you seem to assume you're
> >> >> an expert on the matter. Believe what you like. Something to
> >> >> bear in mind is not all compilers and linkers build in the same
> >> >> way as VC or gcc.    
> >> >
> >> >I have done embedded dev and I am well aware of its constraints;
> >> >all
> >> >   
> >> 
> >> Suuuuuuure you have.  
> >
> >You are just showing your ignorance of leveraging C++ in an embedded
> >environment.  
> 
> "Leveraging"? Run out of arguments and now resorting to buzzwords are
> we? :)

If you think the word "leveraging" is a buzzword then I can only draw
the conclusion that either English isn't your native language or you
are incredibly dumb.

/Flibble

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#87042

FromMuttley@dastardlyhq.com
Date2022-10-17 15:27 +0000
Message-ID<tijs8k$712$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#86990
On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 16:59:56 +0100
Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:
>On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 15:57:19 -0000 (UTC)
>Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> >You are just showing your ignorance of leveraging C++ in an embedded
>> >environment.  
>> 
>> "Leveraging"? Run out of arguments and now resorting to buzzwords are
>> we? :)
>
>If you think the word "leveraging" is a buzzword then I can only draw
>the conclusion that either English isn't your native language or you
>are incredibly dumb.

Its just buzzword bullshit, used by people who don't know what they're talking
about in order to sound intelligent. Its just a fancy way of saying "using"
but that sounds so mundane, right?

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#87044

From"daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com>
Date2022-10-17 09:04 -0700
Message-ID<0a7745ba-7287-40d4-b5bc-c81614da34ben@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#87042
On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 11:27:37 AM UTC-4, Mut...@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> 
> Its [leveraging] just buzzword bullshit, used by people who don't know what they're talking 
> about in order to sound intelligent. 

:-)

I recall one day in a meeting explaining something about a .Net user interface I was
working on, and the boss asked, "have you leveraged the HTML?"

Daniel

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#87045

FromMuttley@dastardlyhq.com
Date2022-10-17 16:13 +0000
Message-ID<tijuuj$1jc8$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#87044
On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 09:04:57 -0700 (PDT)
"daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 11:27:37 AM UTC-4, Mut...@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>
>> 
>> Its [leveraging] just buzzword bullshit, used by people who don't know what
>they're talking 
>> about in order to sound intelligent. 
>
>:-)
>
>I recall one day in a meeting explaining something about a .Net user interface
>I was
>working on, and the boss asked, "have you leveraged the HTML?"

Did he maybe have a vision that he wanted to whiteboard in order to drill down
and run with the mission statement? :)

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#87048

Fromred floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid>
Date2022-10-17 09:44 -0700
Message-ID<tik0pg$3g0ml$1@redfloyd.dont-email.me>
In reply to#87045
On 10/17/2022 9:13 AM, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 09:04:57 -0700 (PDT)
> "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 11:27:37 AM UTC-4, Mut...@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Its [leveraging] just buzzword bullshit, used by people who don't know what
>> they're talking
>>> about in order to sound intelligent.
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> I recall one day in a meeting explaining something about a .Net user interface
>> I was
>> working on, and the boss asked, "have you leveraged the HTML?"
> 
> Did he maybe have a vision that he wanted to whiteboard in order to drill down
> and run with the mission statement? :)
> 

I think he just wanted to actualize the synergies.

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#87049

FromMr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp>
Date2022-10-17 17:47 +0100
Message-ID<20221017174727.000016f1@reddwarf.jmc.corp>
In reply to#87048
On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 09:44:31 -0700
red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> wrote:

> On 10/17/2022 9:13 AM, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> > On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 09:04:57 -0700 (PDT)
> > "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> wrote:  
> >> On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 11:27:37 AM UTC-4,
> >> Mut...@dastardlyhq.com wrote: 
> >>>
> >>> Its [leveraging] just buzzword bullshit, used by people who don't
> >>> know what  
> >> they're talking  
> >>> about in order to sound intelligent.  
>  [...]  
> > 
> > Did he maybe have a vision that he wanted to whiteboard in order to
> > drill down and run with the mission statement? :)
> >   
> 
> I think he just wanted to actualize the synergies.

The word "leverage" is NOT a buzzword.

/Flibble

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#87056

FromManfred <noname@add.invalid>
Date2022-10-18 01:10 +0200
Message-ID<tikndf$4hi$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#87049
On 10/17/2022 6:47 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 09:44:31 -0700
> red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On 10/17/2022 9:13 AM, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 09:04:57 -0700 (PDT)
>>> "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 11:27:37 AM UTC-4,
>>>> Mut...@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Its [leveraging] just buzzword bullshit, used by people who don't
>>>>> know what
>>>> they're talking
>>>>> about in order to sound intelligent.
>>   [...]
>>>
>>> Did he maybe have a vision that he wanted to whiteboard in order to
>>> drill down and run with the mission statement? :)
>>>    
>>
>> I think he just wanted to actualize the synergies.
> 
> The word "leverage" is NOT a buzzword.
> 
> /Flibble
> 

You are lacking a vision of the synergies ;)

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#87057

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com>
Date2022-10-17 16:22 -0700
Message-ID<tiko3o$3i141$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87056
On 10/17/2022 4:10 PM, Manfred wrote:
> On 10/17/2022 6:47 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 09:44:31 -0700
>> red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/17/2022 9:13 AM, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 09:04:57 -0700 (PDT)
>>>> "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 11:27:37 AM UTC-4,
>>>>> Mut...@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Its [leveraging] just buzzword bullshit, used by people who don't
>>>>>> know what
>>>>> they're talking
>>>>>> about in order to sound intelligent.
>>>   [...]
>>>>
>>>> Did he maybe have a vision that he wanted to whiteboard in order to
>>>> drill down and run with the mission statement? :)
>>>
>>> I think he just wanted to actualize the synergies.
>>
>> The word "leverage" is NOT a buzzword.
>>
>> /Flibble
>>
> 
> You are lacking a vision of the synergies ;)
> 

Apoplectic synergistic energy formations flowing within n-ary space...

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#87064

FromPaul N <gw7rib@aol.com>
Date2022-10-18 05:13 -0700
Message-ID<1328b2ff-4f5c-44fa-a789-879f6abd58d1n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#87056
On Tuesday, October 18, 2022 at 12:11:00 AM UTC+1, Manfred wrote:
> On 10/17/2022 6:47 PM, Mr Flibble wrote: 
> > On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 09:44:31 -0700 
> > red floyd <no.spa...@its.invalid> wrote: 
> > 
> >> On 10/17/2022 9:13 AM, Mut...@dastardlyhq.com wrote: 
> >>> On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 09:04:57 -0700 (PDT) 
> >>> "daniel...@gmail.com" <daniel...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> >>>> On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 11:27:37 AM UTC-4, 
> >>>> Mut...@dastardlyhq.com wrote: 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Its [leveraging] just buzzword bullshit, used by people who don't 
> >>>>> know what 
> >>>> they're talking 
> >>>>> about in order to sound intelligent. 
> >> [...] 
> >>> 
> >>> Did he maybe have a vision that he wanted to whiteboard in order to 
> >>> drill down and run with the mission statement? :) 
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> I think he just wanted to actualize the synergies. 
> > 
> > The word "leverage" is NOT a buzzword. 
> > 
> > /Flibble 
> >
> You are lacking a vision of the synergies ;)

When I first saw "role model" used as a verb I thought "No, I'm not going to let this become a phrase". But it seems I failed. I wonder if my managers have any idea why I put "Strongly disagree" whenever a survey asks me whether I think top management role model the corporate values.

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#87066

FromMuttley@dastardlyhq.com
Date2022-10-18 15:04 +0000
Message-ID<timf91$1ahh$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#87049
On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 17:47:27 +0100
Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:
>On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 09:44:31 -0700
>red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 10/17/2022 9:13 AM, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> > On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 09:04:57 -0700 (PDT)
>> > "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> wrote:  
>> >> On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 11:27:37 AM UTC-4,
>> >> Mut...@dastardlyhq.com wrote: 
>> >>>
>> >>> Its [leveraging] just buzzword bullshit, used by people who don't
>> >>> know what  
>> >> they're talking  
>> >>> about in order to sound intelligent.  
>>  [...]  
>> > 
>> > Did he maybe have a vision that he wanted to whiteboard in order to
>> > drill down and run with the mission statement? :)
>> >   
>> 
>> I think he just wanted to actualize the synergies.
>
>The word "leverage" is NOT a buzzword.

When its used in place of "use" then thats exactly what it is. Leverage is
the outcome of using a lever, not a programming language.

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#87068

FromMr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp>
Date2022-10-18 17:40 +0100
Message-ID<20221018174005.000067b2@reddwarf.jmc.corp>
In reply to#87066
On Tue, 18 Oct 2022 15:04:01 -0000 (UTC)
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 17:47:27 +0100
> Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:
> >On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 09:44:31 -0700
> >red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> wrote:
> >  
> >> On 10/17/2022 9:13 AM, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:  
> >> > On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 09:04:57 -0700 (PDT)
> >> > "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> wrote:    
> >> >> On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 11:27:37 AM UTC-4,
> >> >> Mut...@dastardlyhq.com wrote:   
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Its [leveraging] just buzzword bullshit, used by people who
> >> >>> don't know what    
> >> >> they're talking    
> >> >>> about in order to sound intelligent.    
> >>  [...]    
> >> > 
> >> > Did he maybe have a vision that he wanted to whiteboard in order
> >> > to drill down and run with the mission statement? :)
> >> >     
> >> 
> >> I think he just wanted to actualize the synergies.  
> >
> >The word "leverage" is NOT a buzzword.  
> 
> When its used in place of "use" then thats exactly what it is.
> Leverage is the outcome of using a lever, not a programming language.

Yes leverage is the outcome of using a lever which is why it is a
perfectly cromulent word to use when describing using a METAPHORICAL
lever. It is NOT a buzzword.

/Flibble 

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#87071

From"daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com>
Date2022-10-18 12:14 -0700
Message-ID<8682ecf5-b531-4814-86a2-2c6fb21c55ecn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#87068
On Tuesday, October 18, 2022 at 12:40:23 PM UTC-4, Mr Flibble wrote:

> Yes leverage is the outcome of using a lever which is why it is a 
> perfectly cromulent word to use when describing using a METAPHORICAL 
> lever. It is NOT a buzzword. 
> 
It's leveraging the English ...

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#87077

FromMuttley@dastardlyhq.com
Date2022-10-19 15:12 +0000
Message-ID<tip448$10q5$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#87068
On Tue, 18 Oct 2022 17:40:05 +0100
Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:
>On Tue, 18 Oct 2022 15:04:01 -0000 (UTC)
>Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 17:47:27 +0100
>> Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:
>> >On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 09:44:31 -0700
>> >red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> wrote:
>> >  
>> >> On 10/17/2022 9:13 AM, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:  
>> >> > On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 09:04:57 -0700 (PDT)
>> >> > "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> wrote:    
>> >> >> On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 11:27:37 AM UTC-4,
>> >> >> Mut...@dastardlyhq.com wrote:   
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Its [leveraging] just buzzword bullshit, used by people who
>> >> >>> don't know what    
>> >> >> they're talking    
>> >> >>> about in order to sound intelligent.    
>> >>  [...]    
>> >> > 
>> >> > Did he maybe have a vision that he wanted to whiteboard in order
>> >> > to drill down and run with the mission statement? :)
>> >> >     
>> >> 
>> >> I think he just wanted to actualize the synergies.  
>> >
>> >The word "leverage" is NOT a buzzword.  
>> 
>> When its used in place of "use" then thats exactly what it is.
>> Leverage is the outcome of using a lever, not a programming language.
>
>Yes leverage is the outcome of using a lever which is why it is a
>perfectly cromulent word to use when describing using a METAPHORICAL

Cromulent? Did you just flip a dictionary open at a random page or are you
just taking the piss?

>lever. It is NOT a buzzword.

Lever implies doing something you couldn't do before without it. It does not
apply in this case ergo you're just using it as a buzzword in order to try
and sound smart. Didn't work.

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#87078

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2022-10-19 15:35 +0000
Message-ID<zPU3L.268948$IRd5.202473@fx10.iad>
In reply to#87077
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com writes:
>On Tue, 18 Oct 2022 17:40:05 +0100
>Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:
>>On Tue, 18 Oct 2022 15:04:01 -0000 (UTC)
>>Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 17:47:27 +0100
>>> Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:
>>> >On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 09:44:31 -0700
>>> >red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> wrote:
>>> >  
>>> >> On 10/17/2022 9:13 AM, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:  
>>> >> > On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 09:04:57 -0700 (PDT)
>>> >> > "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> wrote:    
>>> >> >> On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 11:27:37 AM UTC-4,
>>> >> >> Mut...@dastardlyhq.com wrote:   
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Its [leveraging] just buzzword bullshit, used by people who
>>> >> >>> don't know what    
>>> >> >> they're talking    
>>> >> >>> about in order to sound intelligent.    
>>> >>  [...]    
>>> >> > 
>>> >> > Did he maybe have a vision that he wanted to whiteboard in order
>>> >> > to drill down and run with the mission statement? :)
>>> >> >     
>>> >> 
>>> >> I think he just wanted to actualize the synergies.  
>>> >
>>> >The word "leverage" is NOT a buzzword.  
>>> 
>>> When its used in place of "use" then thats exactly what it is.
>>> Leverage is the outcome of using a lever, not a programming language.
>>
>>Yes leverage is the outcome of using a lever which is why it is a
>>perfectly cromulent word to use when describing using a METAPHORICAL
>
>Cromulent? Did you just flip a dictionary open at a random page or are you
>just taking the piss?

In this case, the use of "Cromulent" was perfectly cromulent :-)

The term originally was coined by a Simpsons writer, and has
subsequently reached the Merriam-Webster dictionary.

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#87102

FromMuttley@dastardlyhq.com
Date2022-10-20 16:16 +0000
Message-ID<tirs8r$1or8$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#87078
On Wed, 19 Oct 2022 15:35:59 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>Muttley@dastardlyhq.com writes:
>>On Tue, 18 Oct 2022 17:40:05 +0100
>>Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:
>>>On Tue, 18 Oct 2022 15:04:01 -0000 (UTC)
>>>Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 17:47:27 +0100
>>>> Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> wrote:
>>>> >On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 09:44:31 -0700
>>>> >red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >  
>>>> >> On 10/17/2022 9:13 AM, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:  
>>>> >> > On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 09:04:57 -0700 (PDT)
>>>> >> > "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> wrote:    
>>>> >> >> On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 11:27:37 AM UTC-4,
>>>> >> >> Mut...@dastardlyhq.com wrote:   
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> Its [leveraging] just buzzword bullshit, used by people who
>>>> >> >>> don't know what    
>>>> >> >> they're talking    
>>>> >> >>> about in order to sound intelligent.    
>>>> >>  [...]    
>>>> >> > 
>>>> >> > Did he maybe have a vision that he wanted to whiteboard in order
>>>> >> > to drill down and run with the mission statement? :)
>>>> >> >     
>>>> >> 
>>>> >> I think he just wanted to actualize the synergies.  
>>>> >
>>>> >The word "leverage" is NOT a buzzword.  
>>>> 
>>>> When its used in place of "use" then thats exactly what it is.
>>>> Leverage is the outcome of using a lever, not a programming language.
>>>
>>>Yes leverage is the outcome of using a lever which is why it is a
>>>perfectly cromulent word to use when describing using a METAPHORICAL
>>
>>Cromulent? Did you just flip a dictionary open at a random page or are you
>>just taking the piss?
>
>In this case, the use of "Cromulent" was perfectly cromulent :-)
>
>The term originally was coined by a Simpsons writer, and has
>subsequently reached the Merriam-Webster dictionary.

Rather apt I suppose given Flibble does seem to impersonate Bart :)

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#86992

FromBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Date2022-10-15 20:13 +0200
Message-ID<tiet7k$2rq0g$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#86985
Am 15.10.2022 um 17:34 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:

> I've tried to explain it to you, so has he. You've obviously never done
> embedded dev, yet as usual you seem to assume you're an expert on the matter.
> Believe what you like. Something to bear in mind is not all compilers and
> linkers build in the same way as VC or gcc.

Are there any C++20-compliant compilers other than MSVC, g++ and clang ?
Even Intel has moved to clang and partitially LLVM.

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#86991

FromBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Date2022-10-15 20:11 +0200
Message-ID<tiet4e$2rq0g$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#86981
Am 15.10.2022 um 13:45 schrieb Mr Flibble:

> Try using std::list with a custom allocator as I originally suggested;
> also your quote of 7KB sounds highly dubious and anecdotal.

This doesn't work since the allocator allocates the items at at
different type than for which the allocator is specified. std::list
-Items encapsulates the type for which the list is speciefied in
another structure that has the forward and backward-pointers to
have only a single allocation and not a link-object and a T-object
which the link points separately.
So nearly all containers re-class that allocator with rebind_alloc<>.
AFAIK having a 1:1 custom allocator in that sense is only possible
with the containers that have random access iterators.

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