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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #84323 > unrolled thread

Wikipedia

Started byBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
First post2022-05-29 02:59 +0200
Last post2022-06-01 18:39 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 157 — 19 participants

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  Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-05-29 02:59 +0200
    Re: Wikipedia Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-05-29 05:46 +0000
      Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-05-29 08:03 +0200
        Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-05-29 08:34 +0200
        Re: Wikipedia Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2022-05-29 01:36 -0700
          Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-05-29 10:37 +0200
            Re: Wikipedia Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2022-05-29 02:09 -0700
              Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-05-29 11:16 +0200
                Re: Wikipedia Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2022-05-29 03:08 -0700
                  Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-05-29 12:44 +0200
                Re: Wikipedia Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-05-29 16:05 +0300
                  Re: Wikipedia Freethinker <freethinker@mymail.com> - 2022-05-29 15:19 +0200
                  Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-05-29 15:27 +0200
                    Re: Wikipedia Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2022-05-29 17:26 +0100
                      Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-05-29 19:18 +0200
                      Re: Wikipedia scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-05-29 17:49 +0000
                      Re: Wikipedia Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-05-30 00:25 +0200
                        Re: Wikipedia Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2022-06-04 13:00 -0400
                          Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-04 19:19 +0200
              Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-05-29 11:48 +0200
            Re: Wikipedia Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-05-30 06:06 +0000
              Re: Wikipedia Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2022-06-04 13:02 -0400
      Re: Wikipedia Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2022-05-29 17:18 +0100
        Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-05-29 18:22 +0200
          Re: Wikipedia Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-05-30 06:08 +0000
            Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-05-31 04:41 +0200
        Re: Wikipedia Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-05-30 06:06 +0000
    Re: Wikipedia Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-05-30 19:31 +0100
    Re: Wikipedia Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-05-30 19:52 +0100
      Re: Wikipedia Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-05-31 14:34 +0200
        Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-05-31 15:15 +0200
          Re: Wikipedia Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-05-31 18:00 +0100
            Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-05-31 19:06 +0200
              Re: Wikipedia Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-05-31 18:43 +0100
                Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-05-31 19:48 +0200
                  Re: Wikipedia David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-06-01 09:26 +0200
                    Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 09:44 +0200
                      Re: Wikipedia Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2022-06-01 01:47 -0700
                        Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 13:53 +0200
                          Re: Wikipedia David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-06-01 17:05 +0200
                            Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 17:06 +0200
                          Re: Wikipedia Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-06-02 04:57 +0000
                            Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-02 07:43 +0200
                              Re: Wikipedia Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-06-02 08:53 +0000
                                Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-02 12:56 +0200
                                  Re: Wikipedia Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-06-02 12:46 +0000
                                    Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-02 14:56 +0200
                                      Re: Wikipedia Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-06-03 04:14 +0000
                                        Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-03 06:19 +0200
                                          Re: Wikipedia Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-06-03 04:26 +0000
                                          Re: Wikipedia Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-06-03 14:22 +0100
                                            Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-03 15:34 +0200
                                            Re: Wikipedia "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-06-03 07:24 -0700
                                              Re: Wikipedia Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-06-03 14:56 +0000
                                                Re: Wikipedia "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-06-03 08:06 -0700
                                                  Re: Wikipedia David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-06-03 17:30 +0200
                                                    Re: Wikipedia "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-06-03 10:37 -0700
                                                      Re: Wikipedia David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-06-03 20:33 +0200
                                                        Re: Wikipedia scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-06-03 18:59 +0000
                                                          Re: Wikipedia "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-06-03 12:35 -0700
                                                          Re: Wikipedia Freethinker <freethinker@mymail.com> - 2022-06-03 23:42 +0200
                                                            Re: Wikipedia Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-06-04 08:10 +0000
                                                        Re: Wikipedia "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-06-03 11:59 -0700
                                                          Re: Wikipedia David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-06-04 15:27 +0200
                                                  Re: Wikipedia Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-06-04 15:31 +0000
                                              Re: Wikipedia Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-06-03 17:02 +0200
                                                Re: Wikipedia "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-06-03 08:11 -0700
                                              Re: Wikipedia "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-06-03 14:23 -0700
                                    Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-02 14:58 +0200
                                    Re: Wikipedia Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-06-04 08:00 -0700
                                  Re: Wikipedia David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-06-02 16:00 +0200
                                    Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-02 16:09 +0200
                                      Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-02 16:14 +0200
                                  Re: Wikipedia Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2022-06-04 13:20 -0400
                                    Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-04 19:23 +0200
                                Re: Wikipedia Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-06-02 04:40 -0700
                                  Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-02 14:00 +0200
                                    Re: Wikipedia Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-06-02 12:47 +0000
                                      Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-02 14:59 +0200
                                        Re: Wikipedia Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-06-03 04:17 +0000
                                          Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-03 06:20 +0200
                                            Re: Wikipedia Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-06-03 04:27 +0000
                                  Re: Wikipedia David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-06-02 16:13 +0200
                                    Re: Wikipedia Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-06-02 10:09 -0700
                                      Re: Wikipedia David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-06-02 22:35 +0200
                                        Re: Wikipedia Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-06-03 04:22 +0000
                                          Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-03 06:23 +0200
                                            Re: Wikipedia Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-06-03 04:28 +0000
                                              Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-03 06:35 +0200
                                                Re: Wikipedia Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-06-03 05:22 +0000
                                                  Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-03 07:23 +0200
                                                    Re: Wikipedia "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-06-02 22:25 -0700
                                                      Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-03 07:28 +0200
                                                        Re: Wikipedia "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-06-02 22:31 -0700
                                                          Re: Wikipedia Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-06-03 06:22 +0000
                                                            Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-03 08:38 +0200
                                                              Re: Wikipedia Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-06-03 10:14 +0000
                                                      Re: Wikipedia "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-06-03 06:32 -0700
                                                        Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-03 15:35 +0200
                                                        Re: Wikipedia "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-06-03 14:12 -0700
                                          Re: Wikipedia David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-06-03 10:31 +0200
                                Re: Wikipedia Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-06-02 19:12 +0200
                                Re: Wikipedia Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2022-06-04 13:09 -0400
                            Re: Wikipedia Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2022-06-02 17:54 +0100
                              Re: Wikipedia Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-06-02 20:40 +0300
                                Re: Wikipedia Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2022-06-02 18:50 +0100
                              Re: Wikipedia Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-06-03 04:25 +0000
                        Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 14:21 +0200
                        Re: Wikipedia "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 06:17 -0700
                          Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 15:34 +0200
                            Re: Wikipedia "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 07:13 -0700
                              Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 16:55 +0200
                      Re: Wikipedia David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-06-01 16:29 +0200
                        Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 16:56 +0200
                        Re: Wikipedia "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 07:58 -0700
                          Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 17:07 +0200
                            Re: Wikipedia David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-06-01 17:50 +0200
                              Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 18:11 +0200
                          Re: Wikipedia David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-06-01 17:41 +0200
                          Re: Wikipedia Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-06-01 17:42 +0200
                            Re: Wikipedia "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 09:12 -0700
                              Re: Wikipedia Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-06-01 18:35 +0200
                                Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 18:36 +0200
                                  Re: Wikipedia Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-06-01 18:59 +0200
                                    Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 19:04 +0200
                                Re: Wikipedia "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 10:04 -0700
                                Re: Wikipedia Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-06-07 08:28 -0700
                              Re: Wikipedia David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-06-01 21:22 +0200
                                Re: Wikipedia "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 13:43 -0700
                                  Re: Wikipedia David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-06-02 10:07 +0200
                            Re: Wikipedia Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-06-07 08:21 -0700
                              Re: Wikipedia "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-06-10 07:18 -0700
                Re: Wikipedia muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-05-31 18:34 +0000
                  Re: Wikipedia Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-05-31 19:37 +0100
                    Re: Wikipedia muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-05-31 18:42 +0000
                      Re: Wikipedia Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-05-31 20:00 +0100
                        Re: Wikipedia muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-05-31 19:19 +0000
                          Re: Wikipedia Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-05-31 20:28 +0100
                            Re: Wikipedia muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-06-01 18:07 +0000
                              Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 20:28 +0200
                          Re: Wikipedia scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-05-31 19:37 +0000
                            Re: Wikipedia Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2022-05-31 21:27 +0100
                          Re: "std::" (was: Wikipedia) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-05-31 21:17 +0100
                            Re: "std::" (was: Wikipedia) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 06:33 +0200
                          Re: Wikipedia David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-06-01 09:34 +0200
                    Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 05:40 +0200
        Re: Wikipedia Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2022-05-31 17:18 +0100
          Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-05-31 18:25 +0200
            Re: Wikipedia David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-06-01 09:38 +0200
              Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 09:46 +0200
                Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 10:16 +0200
                  Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 10:21 +0200
                  Re: Wikipedia David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-06-01 17:13 +0200
                    Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 17:15 +0200
                      Re: Wikipedia David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-06-01 18:12 +0200
                        Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 18:18 +0200
                          Re: Wikipedia Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 18:39 +0200

Page 4 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8  Next page →


#84520

FromFreethinker <freethinker@mymail.com>
Date2022-06-03 23:42 +0200
Message-ID<t7dv8v$1mb5$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#84515
On 03.06.22 20:59, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:

   You guys could have written five programs
> in the time you've wasted arguing about this.

Sure, but this made a lot more fun. It's good entertainment for free.

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#84528

FromMuttley@dastardlyhq.com
Date2022-06-04 08:10 +0000
Message-ID<t7f412$13p1$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#84520
On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 23:42:55 +0200
Freethinker <freethinker@mymail.com> wrote:
>On 03.06.22 20:59, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>
>   You guys could have written five programs
>> in the time you've wasted arguing about this.
>
>Sure, but this made a lot more fun. It's good entertainment for free.

And is the whole point of usenet after all.

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#84516

From"daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com>
Date2022-06-03 11:59 -0700
Message-ID<5128f8e9-e470-463b-931f-d72363cc215en@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#84514
On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 2:33:24 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> > 
> > Finally, they mention name clashes as a possible issue, but go on to say: 
> > "However, [a name clash] is not particularly likely to lead to a resolution 
> > that is not an error and people who use using namespace std are supposed 
> > to know about std and about this risk." _You_ may think that the 
> > risk of a name clash is too big of a risk to take, but Stroustrup and 
> > Sutter don't seem to think so.
> They say it is a risk - they don't say if they recommend taking the risk 
> or not. 

You don't have to be a textual scholar to know that a sentence beginning
with "However" is expressing another point of view than the sentence that
preceded it, they're clearly saying that the compiler will likely catch the
name clashes so it's not that big a deal.

I can't say I've found any of your other points convincing, but I think
everything that can be said on the subject has been said.

Best regards,
Daniel

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#84530

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2022-06-04 15:27 +0200
Message-ID<t7fmjm$m0g$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#84516
On 03/06/2022 20:59, daniel...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 2:33:24 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
>>>
>>> Finally, they mention name clashes as a possible issue, but go on to say: 
>>> "However, [a name clash] is not particularly likely to lead to a resolution 
>>> that is not an error and people who use using namespace std are supposed 
>>> to know about std and about this risk." _You_ may think that the 
>>> risk of a name clash is too big of a risk to take, but Stroustrup and 
>>> Sutter don't seem to think so.
>> They say it is a risk - they don't say if they recommend taking the risk 
>> or not. 
> 
> You don't have to be a textual scholar to know that a sentence beginning
> with "However" is expressing another point of view than the sentence that
> preceded it, they're clearly saying that the compiler will likely catch the
> name clashes so it's not that big a deal.
> 
> I can't say I've found any of your other points convincing, but I think
> everything that can be said on the subject has been said.
> 

Fair enough.  Polite differences of opinion is the best we can ever hope
for on Usenet!  And agreement would be boring :-)

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#84533

FromJuha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid>
Date2022-06-04 15:31 +0000
Message-ID<t7ftru$1jnl$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#84510
daniel...@gmail.com <danielaparker@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Perhaps someone could present a well-formulated argument to the authors 
>> about why that using expression shouldn't be there, as it teaches new 
>> C++ programmers bad habits. I think *avoiding* "using namespace std;" 
>> should be a Core Guideline.
> 
> That's what _you_ think, that's what David thinks, and it may even be what I
> think. But that's not what the Core Guidelines say. 

The Core Guidelines is not an immutable Holy Scripture that must never be
changed lest you be smitten by God.

The authors might be convinced to change that part of it if a good-enough
persuasive argument is presented to them. If they decide not to change it
the fine, but it would be nice if they at least offered an explanation of
why.

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#84509

FromManfred <noname@add.invalid>
Date2022-06-03 17:02 +0200
Message-ID<t7d7q6$18tq$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#84507
On 6/3/2022 4:24 PM, daniel...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 9:22:37 AM UTC-4, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>
>> I will remove "using namespace std;" from the Wikipedia article
>> sometime next week; and then again a few weeks later: I will not tell
>> you exactly when I am going to change it forcing you to waste time keep
>> checking it if you really want an edit war.
>>
> You could, of course, do that, there is little to stop you, Wikipedia is,
> after all, free range. But it would be impolite, causing, as it were,
> a certain amount of distress. Miss Manners would not approve.

Are you calling for manners when Bonita is involved?
Seriously?

> 
> Perhaps you feel that somebody is being wrong on the internet,
> and that duty calls. But at least consider that the C++ Core Guidelines
> show a "good" example that also has "using namespace std" at file
> scope. Perhaps having this line above 166 lines of code is not the
> greatest wrong of all times. But if you're really worried about name
> clashes, I have some very bad news for you, the code also includes
> Windows.h ...
> 
> Maybe go with politeness this time?
> 
> Best regards,
> Daniel
> 
>   

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#84511

From"daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com>
Date2022-06-03 08:11 -0700
Message-ID<35217fb2-fbd2-467c-af9c-eb37143aa639n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#84509
On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 11:02:46 AM UTC-4, Manfred wrote:

> Are you calling for manners when Bonita is involved? 
> Seriously?

It would be nice, yes.

Best regards,
Daniel

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#84519

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com>
Date2022-06-03 14:23 -0700
Message-ID<t7du3v$90h$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#84507
On 6/3/2022 7:24 AM, daniel...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 9:22:37 AM UTC-4, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>
>> I will remove "using namespace std;" from the Wikipedia article
>> sometime next week; and then again a few weeks later: I will not tell
>> you exactly when I am going to change it forcing you to waste time keep
>> checking it if you really want an edit war.
>>
> You could, of course, do that, there is little to stop you, Wikipedia is,
> after all, free range. But it would be impolite, causing, as it were,
> a certain amount of distress. Miss Manners would not approve.
> 
> Perhaps you feel that somebody is being wrong on the internet,
> and that duty calls. But at least consider that the C++ Core Guidelines
> show a "good" example that also has "using namespace std" at file
> scope. Perhaps having this line above 166 lines of code is not the
> greatest wrong of all times. But if you're really worried about name
> clashes, I have some very bad news for you, the code also includes
> Windows.h ...
> 
> Maybe go with politeness this time?

Yes, indeed. Also, try to define WIN32_LEAN_AND_MEAN when appropriate... ;^)

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#84471

FromBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Date2022-06-02 14:58 +0200
Message-ID<t7ac4f$s2m$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#84468
> It's relatively clear that you are engaging in projection there,
> assigning to others your own personal problems. ...

Sorry, where do I behave like the people I desribe here ?
Where do I dictate my taste to others ?
Projection seems to be the only psychological word you know.
That's kitchen sink psychology.

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#84532

FromTim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Date2022-06-04 08:00 -0700
Message-ID<86zgiszd5x.fsf@linuxsc.com>
In reply to#84468
Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> writes:

> Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> [...]
>
> [...] The only thing that amazes me is why anybody here takes you
> seriously. [...]

I daresay most regulars in the group simply ignore postings from
Bonita Montero.  Perhaps you should consider doing the same.

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#84473

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2022-06-02 16:00 +0200
Message-ID<t7afq1$rq6$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#84465
On 02/06/2022 12:56, Bonita Montero wrote:
> Am 02.06.2022 um 10:53 schrieb Juha Nieminen:
>> Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Do you know every single name in the standard library? From a random 
>>>> list
>>>> of names could you point out with accuracy which ones are used in the
>>>> standard library and which ones aren't? How many programmers do you 
>>>> think
>>>> would be able to do that?
>>>
>>> No, but my compiler does and gives me an error if there are any name
>>> clashes. And in rare cases where I can't disambiguate a symbol which
>>> could be part of multiple namespaces I right-click the symbol and
>>> click "Go to definition" or "Go to declaration" and that is it.
>>> So where's the problem ?
>>
>> Code should be readable ...
> 
> You have a very compulsive opinion of what is readable. You and
> some others here have an "occupational illness" of many programmers
> that feel uncertain. That helps to see more details, but these people
> see a lot of irrelevant details and have less capabilify to see com-
> prehensive relations among those details and therefore shouldn't
> program. That's also while lowers the emotional level below zero
> that this kind of experiencing leaves some unhealthy enduring
> effects with that persons. That's generally adverse but doesnt
> forces to lead to mental illnes. But if these people think they
> can dictate to how I program because they would be otherwise frus-
> trated or angry, this is a strong sign for a severe personality
> disorder (personality-disorders are mainly relational disorders
> and that these people here have such a disorder is obvious).

I'm not keen on personal topics, but you are starting to sound like Fir. 
  That is just meaningless ramble, totally void of any content or 
rational argument.  And I know you can write a lot better English than 
that.  If this thread has got you so worked up that you are getting 
angry and frustrated, and can't discuss this from a technical viewpoint, 
then drop it.  You are not helping your case.

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#84474

FromBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Date2022-06-02 16:09 +0200
Message-ID<t7aga4$uuc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#84473
Am 02.06.2022 um 16:00 schrieb David Brown:
> On 02/06/2022 12:56, Bonita Montero wrote:
>> Am 02.06.2022 um 10:53 schrieb Juha Nieminen:
>>> Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Do you know every single name in the standard library? From a 
>>>>> random list
>>>>> of names could you point out with accuracy which ones are used in the
>>>>> standard library and which ones aren't? How many programmers do you 
>>>>> think
>>>>> would be able to do that?
>>>>
>>>> No, but my compiler does and gives me an error if there are any name
>>>> clashes. And in rare cases where I can't disambiguate a symbol which
>>>> could be part of multiple namespaces I right-click the symbol and
>>>> click "Go to definition" or "Go to declaration" and that is it.
>>>> So where's the problem ?
>>>
>>> Code should be readable ...
>>
>> You have a very compulsive opinion of what is readable. You and
>> some others here have an "occupational illness" of many programmers
>> that feel uncertain. That helps to see more details, but these people
>> see a lot of irrelevant details and have less capabilify to see com-
>> prehensive relations among those details and therefore shouldn't
>> program. That's also while lowers the emotional level below zero
>> that this kind of experiencing leaves some unhealthy enduring
>> effects with that persons. That's generally adverse but doesnt
>> forces to lead to mental illnes. But if these people think they
>> can dictate to how I program because they would be otherwise frus-
>> trated or angry, this is a strong sign for a severe personality
>> disorder (personality-disorders are mainly relational disorders
>> and that these people here have such a disorder is obvious).
> 
> I'm not keen on personal topics, but you are starting to sound like Fir. 
>   That is just meaningless ramble, totally void of any content or 
> rational argument. ...

My argumenta re very rational, but at the level really relevant here.
There wouldn't be any problem leaving my Wikipedia code as it is. It's
all about dictating taste.

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#84476

FromBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Date2022-06-02 16:14 +0200
Message-ID<t7agk6$1ec$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#84474
Am 02.06.2022 um 16:09 schrieb Bonita Montero:
> Am 02.06.2022 um 16:00 schrieb David Brown:
>> On 02/06/2022 12:56, Bonita Montero wrote:
>>> Am 02.06.2022 um 10:53 schrieb Juha Nieminen:
>>>> Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Do you know every single name in the standard library? From a 
>>>>>> random list
>>>>>> of names could you point out with accuracy which ones are used in the
>>>>>> standard library and which ones aren't? How many programmers do 
>>>>>> you think
>>>>>> would be able to do that?
>>>>>
>>>>> No, but my compiler does and gives me an error if there are any name
>>>>> clashes. And in rare cases where I can't disambiguate a symbol which
>>>>> could be part of multiple namespaces I right-click the symbol and
>>>>> click "Go to definition" or "Go to declaration" and that is it.
>>>>> So where's the problem ?
>>>>
>>>> Code should be readable ...
>>>
>>> You have a very compulsive opinion of what is readable. You and
>>> some others here have an "occupational illness" of many programmers
>>> that feel uncertain. That helps to see more details, but these people
>>> see a lot of irrelevant details and have less capabilify to see com-
>>> prehensive relations among those details and therefore shouldn't
>>> program. That's also while lowers the emotional level below zero
>>> that this kind of experiencing leaves some unhealthy enduring
>>> effects with that persons. That's generally adverse but doesnt
>>> forces to lead to mental illnes. But if these people think they
>>> can dictate to how I program because they would be otherwise frus-
>>> trated or angry, this is a strong sign for a severe personality
>>> disorder (personality-disorders are mainly relational disorders
>>> and that these people here have such a disorder is obvious).
>>
>> I'm not keen on personal topics, but you are starting to sound like 
>> Fir.   That is just meaningless ramble, totally void of any content or 
>> rational argument. ...
> 
> My argumenta re very rational, but at the level really relevant here.
> There wouldn't be any problem leaving my Wikipedia code as it is. It's
> all about dictating taste.

And further: everyone wants that other people adapt to their rules.
But that's all up to a certain level, beyond that there's a level
where there's an accented personality with a surpassing level of
this desire, and above that like we see here - that's really com-
pulsive and disordered.

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#84539

FromPopping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov>
Date2022-06-04 13:20 -0400
Message-ID<t7g4al$fkb$1@reader1.panix.com>
In reply to#84465
On 6/2/22 06:56, Bonita Montero wrote:
> That helps to see more details, but these people
> see a lot of irrelevant details and have less capabilify to see com-
> prehensive relations among those details and therefore shouldn't
> program.


that is bullshit also

People code because they want to and it is not you to decide.

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#84540

FromBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Date2022-06-04 19:23 +0200
Message-ID<t7g4do$ahl$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#84539
Am 04.06.2022 um 19:20 schrieb Popping Mad:
> On 6/2/22 06:56, Bonita Montero wrote:
>> That helps to see more details, but these people
>> see a lot of irrelevant details and have less capabilify to see com-
>> prehensive relations among those details and therefore shouldn't
>> program.
> 
> 
> that is bullshit also
> 
> People code because they want to and it is not you to decide.

I just described some pople's cognitive style while
programming and which is absolutely not appropriate.

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#84466

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2022-06-02 04:40 -0700
Message-ID<2e7091e6-edc2-4b51-9255-18dbbf568775n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#84462
On Thursday, 2 June 2022 at 09:53:22 UTC+1, Juha Nieminen wrote:
> 
> I can't think of any situation where "using namespace std;" would 
> actually introduce some benefit to the code, in terms of readability 
> or otherwise. I can think of plenty of examples of the opposite. 
> 
I tend to include the C math library.

The reason is that my code involves a lot of complicated mathematical
formulae. The convention is that the identifier "cos" means "take the
cosine". There's no broad convention for using "std::cos", "math.cos".
or even "cosine".
Also, the convention is that a formula is one expression. Breaking it
up over several lines makes it harder rather than easier to read.

So you've got long complicated expressions with calls to common
functions embedded in them. It's clearly better to be able to use the
accepted names for these functions.

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#84467

FromBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Date2022-06-02 14:00 +0200
Message-ID<t7a8ol$3fu$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#84466
Am 02.06.2022 um 13:40 schrieb Malcolm McLean:
> On Thursday, 2 June 2022 at 09:53:22 UTC+1, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>>
>> I can't think of any situation where "using namespace std;" would
>> actually introduce some benefit to the code, in terms of readability
>> or otherwise. I can think of plenty of examples of the opposite.
>>
> I tend to include the C math library.
> 
> The reason is that my code involves a lot of complicated mathematical
> formulae. The convention is that the identifier "cos" means "take the
> cosine". There's no broad convention for using "std::cos", "math.cos".
> or even "cosine".

Are you nuts ? There may be a dozen of cos inside other namespaces !!!!!
Hrhr.

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#84469

FromJuha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid>
Date2022-06-02 12:47 +0000
Message-ID<t7abh1$6qe$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#84467
Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote:
> Am 02.06.2022 um 13:40 schrieb Malcolm McLean:
>> On Thursday, 2 June 2022 at 09:53:22 UTC+1, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>>>
>>> I can't think of any situation where "using namespace std;" would
>>> actually introduce some benefit to the code, in terms of readability
>>> or otherwise. I can think of plenty of examples of the opposite.
>>>
>> I tend to include the C math library.
>> 
>> The reason is that my code involves a lot of complicated mathematical
>> formulae. The convention is that the identifier "cos" means "take the
>> cosine". There's no broad convention for using "std::cos", "math.cos".
>> or even "cosine".
> 
> Are you nuts ? There may be a dozen of cos inside other namespaces !!!!!
> Hrhr.

Do you really expect people to take you seriously when you write things
like that?

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#84472

FromBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Date2022-06-02 14:59 +0200
Message-ID<t7ac6p$s2m$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#84469
Am 02.06.2022 um 14:47 schrieb Juha Nieminen:
> Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Am 02.06.2022 um 13:40 schrieb Malcolm McLean:
>>> On Thursday, 2 June 2022 at 09:53:22 UTC+1, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I can't think of any situation where "using namespace std;" would
>>>> actually introduce some benefit to the code, in terms of readability
>>>> or otherwise. I can think of plenty of examples of the opposite.
>>>>
>>> I tend to include the C math library.
>>>
>>> The reason is that my code involves a lot of complicated mathematical
>>> formulae. The convention is that the identifier "cos" means "take the
>>> cosine". There's no broad convention for using "std::cos", "math.cos".
>>> or even "cosine".
>>
>> Are you nuts ? There may be a dozen of cos inside other namespaces !!!!!
>> Hrhr.
> 
> Do you really expect people to take you seriously when you write things
> like that?

I only want to show that any discussion on the level of those
who want to dictate their taste is simply a waste of time.

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#84484

FromJuha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid>
Date2022-06-03 04:17 +0000
Message-ID<t7c20k$1b85$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#84472
Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote:
> who want to dictate their taste

You have been repeating that quite many times now.
And then you are saying it's me who's obsessed.

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