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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #79507 > unrolled thread

Niuce C++14-feature

Started byBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
First post2021-05-16 18:10 +0200
Last post2021-05-18 15:14 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 249 — 76 participants

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Contents

  Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-16 18:10 +0200
    Re: Niuce C++14-feature Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2021-05-16 10:54 -0700
      Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-16 20:01 +0200
        Re: Niuce C++14-feature Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2021-05-16 11:29 -0700
          Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-17 08:20 +0200
            Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_f4zl13qm@8lfoe01ih4ebku.com - 2021-05-17 09:26 +0000
              Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-17 12:52 +0200
                Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_yMgsa7x5@3ifr32ivepk32ia.org - 2021-05-17 11:29 +0000
                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-17 13:42 +0200
                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_zSl@bw3y07so7dr3go2x.tv - 2021-05-17 13:31 +0000
            Re: Niuce C++14-feature Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2021-05-17 19:53 -0700
              Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-18 05:39 +0200
                Re: Niuce C++14-feature Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2021-05-17 22:33 -0700
    Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_sey@tad.gov.uk - 2021-05-17 07:42 +0000
      Re: Niuce C++14-feature Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-05-17 10:58 +0000
        Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_vj8xvznaud@d16tgqd.co.uk - 2021-05-17 11:32 +0000
          Re: Niuce C++14-feature Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-05-17 12:03 +0000
            Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_gT9q@x057vr3tuoe9s_ht3c.net - 2021-05-17 13:18 +0000
              Re: Niuce C++14-feature Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-05-17 14:02 +0000
                Re: Niuce C++14-feature Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-05-17 16:36 +0000
                Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_rtfm7b8w@g403t8gw2b59awtit.tv - 2021-05-17 14:54 +0000
        Re: Niuce C++14-feature Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-05-17 10:37 -0700
          Re: Niuce C++14-feature Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-05-18 06:47 +0000
            Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_w2uom3_k07@47j.ac.uk - 2021-05-18 07:30 +0000
              Re: Niuce C++14-feature Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-05-18 10:31 +0000
                Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_axe6hb@rq6ypc_knzvwr9.ac.uk - 2021-05-18 15:11 +0000
                Re: Niuce C++14-feature Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-05-18 16:57 -0700
                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-05-19 04:53 +0000
            Re: Niuce C++14-feature Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-05-18 13:08 +0100
            Re: Niuce C++14-feature Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-05-18 17:10 +0200
            Re: Niuce C++14-feature James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-05-18 11:56 -0400
            Re: Niuce C++14-feature Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-05-18 16:56 -0700
              Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-18 22:05 -0700
                Re: Niuce C++14-feature Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-05-19 12:01 +0000
                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-05-24 10:54 +0000
                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-05-24 14:51 -0400
              Re: Niuce C++14-feature Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-05-19 05:02 +0000
                Re: Niuce C++14-feature James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-05-19 10:07 -0400
                Re: Niuce C++14-feature Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-05-19 15:16 +0200
              Re: Niuce C++14-feature Spud@nowheresville.org - 2021-05-19 07:19 +0000
                Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 00:53 -0700
                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_pl1c1bg7i@7sxv4z8mvmyz_.ac.uk - 2021-05-19 08:28 +0000
                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 01:34 -0700
                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_6efnqt73nm@nyyte.com - 2021-05-19 08:44 +0000
                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 01:50 -0700
                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_54rouunX@x37ixhgx27ymvhwc5.net - 2021-05-19 09:31 +0000
                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 13:39 -0700
                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 13:46 -0700
                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_nkfcgvl@7o616.biz - 2021-05-20 08:23 +0000
                                Re: Niuce C++14-feature Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-05-20 12:38 +0300
                                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_5Xl@m9q7d5ux5tl8o5.co.uk - 2021-05-20 14:38 +0000
                                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-05-20 17:43 +0000
                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_dg01t9p2@m0m4iuefk1x.edu - 2021-05-21 09:16 +0000
                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-21 13:38 +0200
                                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_L1peqs_@c81ltrsr_gfoo1.co.uk - 2021-05-21 13:39 +0000
                                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-21 15:46 +0200
                                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_km@gfepxabk0g_ytn7ta.net - 2021-05-21 14:48 +0000
                                                Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-21 17:03 +0200
                                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-05-21 14:15 +0000
                                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_6f@fypmp_.biz - 2021-05-21 14:57 +0000
                                                Re: Niuce C++14-feature scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-05-21 15:05 +0000
                                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2021-05-21 09:42 -0700
                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-05-21 14:44 +0100
                                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_4ptu0Yl4x9@2q77bsgmv.edu - 2021-05-21 14:47 +0000
                                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-21 05:31 +0200
                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_va6psV1d@w5lywejmkchyss0h4d.gov - 2021-05-21 09:24 +0000
                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-21 13:33 +0200
                                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_md3@zi2k.com - 2021-05-21 13:32 +0000
                                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-21 15:43 +0200
                                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_zq3a8xxm@t9c1d7aq5dby4al.gov.uk - 2021-05-21 14:44 +0000
                                                Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-21 17:07 +0200
                                                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_hjgci2iT0@qtinm1mgdu.info - 2021-05-21 16:12 +0000
                                                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-21 18:18 +0200
                                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-05-21 16:25 +0000
                                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-21 18:36 +0200
                                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-05-22 16:18 +0200
                                                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-22 16:25 +0200
                                                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2021-05-22 08:44 -0700
                                                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-22 17:49 +0200
                                                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 05:50 +0200
                                                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 21:32 -0700
                                                                Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 06:40 +0200
                                                                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 22:07 -0700
                                                                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 22:08 -0700
                                                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 07:46 +0200
                                                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 23:12 -0700
                                                                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 08:19 +0200
                                                                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 23:20 -0700
                                                                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 08:22 +0200
                                                                                Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 23:27 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 08:30 +0200
                                                                                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 23:32 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 08:35 +0200
                                                                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 23:38 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 23:41 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 08:44 +0200
                                                                                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 23:49 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 08:50 +0200
                                                                                                Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 23:52 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 08:54 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 23:56 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 08:59 +0200
                                                                                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 00:03 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 09:04 +0200
                                                                                                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 00:09 -0700
                                                                                                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 09:11 +0200
                                                                                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 23:34 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 08:36 +0200
                                                                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 23:38 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 08:39 +0200
                                                                                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 23:43 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 08:46 +0200
                                                                                                Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 23:55 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 09:00 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 00:02 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 09:05 +0200
                                                                                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 00:07 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 00:08 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 09:10 +0200
                                                                                Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 08:32 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 23:33 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 08:34 +0200
                                                                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 23:37 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 08:40 +0200
                                                                                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 23:53 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 08:55 +0200
                                                                                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 23:58 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 09:01 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 00:04 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 09:07 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 00:10 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 00:01 -0700
                                                                                Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 23:30 -0700
                                                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_801o@21xmy7.gov.uk - 2021-05-24 08:31 +0000
                                                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_8_g@ef863gl0.eu - 2021-05-24 08:34 +0000
                                                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 11:49 +0200
                                                                Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_9v@0v6uq5zonj66dteaq9.ac.uk - 2021-05-24 10:15 +0000
                                                                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 12:44 +0200
                                                                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 13:33 -0700
                                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_cjz9@ngfllgqd.edu - 2021-05-25 09:02 +0000
                                                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 12:54 +0200
                                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_43zpj5@zrdy.biz - 2021-05-25 09:02 +0000
                                                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 12:53 +0200
                                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_m0gtwlu6_g@j_cyo9l9.edu - 2021-05-25 09:05 +0000
                                                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-05-25 16:22 +0200
                                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_wBhaki@w1dhf2q0pnagn57.eu - 2021-05-24 08:26 +0000
                                                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 11:51 +0200
                                                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_rfg_f9lmv@xechfnrqs23y.com - 2021-05-24 10:17 +0000
                                                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 12:45 +0200
                                                                Re: Niuce C++14-feature David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-05-24 13:42 +0200
                                                                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 13:54 +0200
                                                                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 14:19 +0200
                                                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 15:02 +0200
                                                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_1shmhc5pEg@qedprf.biz - 2021-05-24 13:57 +0000
                                                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 18:15 +0200
                                                                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-05-24 15:21 +0200
                                                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 15:37 +0200
                                                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_61Z@avwe8ulg.co.uk - 2021-05-24 13:49 +0000
                                                                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 18:14 +0200
                                                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-05-24 16:58 +0200
                                                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-05-24 18:51 +0200
                                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_o_4Ge4wpt@2iwg_s7sq47equu9a.edu - 2021-05-24 08:25 +0000
                                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 11:52 +0200
                                                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-05-21 17:19 +0100
                                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_3l@rsdtj2x7.gov - 2021-05-24 08:22 +0000
                                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_f4@x4dcxggdi.eu - 2021-05-20 13:42 +0000
                                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-20 16:20 +0200
                                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@gmail.com> - 2021-05-20 18:02 +0000
                                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-05-20 19:23 +0000
                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2021-05-21 00:07 +0100
                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_db0ucj9V@o6t54wlnnja_.co.uk - 2021-05-21 09:24 +0000
                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_a102e@wnyqsthof.net - 2021-05-21 09:22 +0000
                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 01:53 -0700
                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 01:54 -0700
                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 10:30 +0200
                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 01:35 -0700
                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 01:36 -0700
                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 01:37 -0700
                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 12:57 +0200
                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 13:33 -0700
                Re: Niuce C++14-feature James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-05-19 10:20 -0400
                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 18:13 +0200
                Re: Niuce C++14-feature Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 10:09 -0700
      Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-17 13:28 +0200
        Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_97@bxos5xe28b1i1n7kh.ac.uk - 2021-05-17 11:34 +0000
          Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-17 13:41 +0200
            Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_b89m0or3@x1_pxvs4h8sxxi.gov.uk - 2021-05-17 13:29 +0000
              Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_imhoou@kq9.ac.uk - 2021-05-17 15:53 +0000
                Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_qg11H@ihwz2zmflqtcalb.gov.uk - 2021-05-17 16:06 +0000
                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-17 18:21 +0200
                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-05-17 16:38 +0000
                Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-17 17:58 +0200
              Re: Niuce C++14-feature Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-05-17 14:03 +0000
                Re: Niuce C++14-feature Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-05-17 16:37 +0000
                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_7kof@5x9.edu - 2021-05-18 07:27 +0000
                Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_cOJ9@yr_8g_4nz.com - 2021-05-17 14:55 +0000
              Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-17 16:06 +0200
                Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_tt7xetn_st@d3zd4ilmme.gov - 2021-05-17 14:56 +0000
                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-17 17:20 +0200
                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-05-18 17:20 +0200
                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_h2j5v@jq7cn18h8lm.com - 2021-05-18 15:35 +0000
                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-18 17:57 +0200
                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_0by_disXi@2hd58e950gxh.eu - 2021-05-19 07:22 +0000
                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 09:41 +0200
                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_ox7@4ieqo8ddusd3k1c8k.com - 2021-05-19 08:22 +0000
                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 10:28 +0200
                                Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_4t1542s@nz48t.gov - 2021-05-19 08:40 +0000
                                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 12:54 +0200
                                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_2ur@t65zb.com - 2021-05-19 11:08 +0000
                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 13:11 +0200
                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_a9r7@vdgtzl3x.gov.uk - 2021-05-19 11:19 +0000
                                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 13:33 +0200
                                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_of0j0vqHff@bap.com - 2021-05-19 13:29 +0000
                                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 16:17 +0200
                                                Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_83b6en@o2cr9.ac.uk - 2021-05-19 14:57 +0000
                                                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 17:49 +0200
                                                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-05-19 17:41 +0000
                                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 19:55 +0200
                                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 14:02 -0700
                                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-05-19 21:06 +0000
                                                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 14:12 -0700
                                                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 14:13 -0700
                                                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-05-20 12:16 +0200
                                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-20 12:31 +0200
                                                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-20 12:33 +0200
                                                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-05-20 18:37 +0200
                                                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-05-20 13:10 -0400
                                                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-05-20 17:56 +0000
                                                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-20 20:26 +0200
                                                                Re: Niuce C++14-feature "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-05-20 19:50 -0700
                                                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-05-20 14:35 +0000
                                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 13:54 -0700
                                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 13:58 -0700
                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-05-19 11:16 +0200
                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_V1@aikd06tg1ez2i6hqi9.com - 2021-05-19 09:29 +0000
                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-05-19 13:36 +0300
                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 12:56 +0200
                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_w5c@g2nz1m_2f4r2g8wqvgfd.co.uk - 2021-05-19 11:07 +0000
                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-05-19 10:34 -0400
                          Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_g1@mpi.com - 2021-05-19 14:55 +0000
                            Re: Niuce C++14-feature Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-05-19 16:15 +0000
                              Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_uc82glu@4o0o4n889yatl8.ac.uk - 2021-05-20 08:19 +0000
                                Re: Niuce C++14-feature Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-05-20 17:46 +0000
                                  Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_mm9v3kgmmm@7_o9.co.uk - 2021-05-21 09:19 +0000
                    Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-18 17:56 +0200
                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-05-18 20:03 +0200
                      Re: Niuce C++14-feature MrSpook_fDx9@a3i3cdf7_.info - 2021-05-19 07:27 +0000
                        Re: Niuce C++14-feature Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-19 09:41 +0200
    Re: Niuce C++14-feature "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-05-18 15:14 -0700

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#79598

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com>
Date2021-05-19 00:53 -0700
Message-ID<s82g65$1ass$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#79591
On 5/19/2021 12:19 AM, Spud@nowheresville.org wrote:
> On Tue, 18 May 2021 16:56:42 -0700
> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Another possible gain is that I let you know that your behavior is
>> unacceptable.  Repeatedly insulting a troll just adds useless noise.
> 
> I'm curious as to why you think someone criticising an aspect of C++
> is trolling. If this forum is merely to praise how wonderful the language
> is to its acolytes then what purpose does it serve?
> 

All criticisms are welcome. I can say, back when C/C++11 first came out, 
why was there not an eventcount or futex like thread sync mechanism? 
Well, shit happens. The fun part is that they can be coded up in pure 
C/C++11. Not ideal, but they can be coded.

Then the response can be nice, or evil... The response can be to tell me 
to go snuff myself. That is a "troll'ish" response, well, imvvho, that is.

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#79600

FromMrSpook_pl1c1bg7i@7sxv4z8mvmyz_.ac.uk
Date2021-05-19 08:28 +0000
Message-ID<s82i74$aag$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#79598
On Wed, 19 May 2021 00:53:41 -0700
"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 5/19/2021 12:19 AM, Spud@nowheresville.org wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 May 2021 16:56:42 -0700
>> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Another possible gain is that I let you know that your behavior is
>>> unacceptable.  Repeatedly insulting a troll just adds useless noise.
>> 
>> I'm curious as to why you think someone criticising an aspect of C++
>> is trolling. If this forum is merely to praise how wonderful the language
>> is to its acolytes then what purpose does it serve?
>> 
>
>All criticisms are welcome. I can say, back when C/C++11 first came out, 
>why was there not an eventcount or futex like thread sync mechanism? 
>Well, shit happens. The fun part is that they can be coded up in pure 
>C/C++11. Not ideal, but they can be coded.

Presumably the same reason they're not part of the C language - C++ is a
cross platform language and some realtime kernel don't support futex's. 
Arguably even having built in threading support in C++ is a step too far. 
After all, if it has threading why doesn't it have built in multi process 
support too?

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#79603

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com>
Date2021-05-19 01:34 -0700
Message-ID<s82ii6$fgr$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#79600
On 5/19/2021 1:28 AM, MrSpook_pl1c1bg7i@7sxv4z8mvmyz_.ac.uk wrote:
> On Wed, 19 May 2021 00:53:41 -0700
> "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/19/2021 12:19 AM, Spud@nowheresville.org wrote:
>>> On Tue, 18 May 2021 16:56:42 -0700
>>> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Another possible gain is that I let you know that your behavior is
>>>> unacceptable.  Repeatedly insulting a troll just adds useless noise.
>>>
>>> I'm curious as to why you think someone criticising an aspect of C++
>>> is trolling. If this forum is merely to praise how wonderful the language
>>> is to its acolytes then what purpose does it serve?
>>>
>>
>> All criticisms are welcome. I can say, back when C/C++11 first came out,
>> why was there not an eventcount or futex like thread sync mechanism?
>> Well, shit happens. The fun part is that they can be coded up in pure
>> C/C++11. Not ideal, but they can be coded.
> 
> Presumably the same reason they're not part of the C language - C++ is a
> cross platform language and some realtime kernel don't support futex's.

Right. However, we can emulate an eventcount or futex in C++.


> Arguably even having built in threading support in C++ is a step too far.

Why?

> After all, if it has threading why doesn't it have built in multi process
> support too?

Humm...

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#79608

FromMrSpook_6efnqt73nm@nyyte.com
Date2021-05-19 08:44 +0000
Message-ID<s82j4g$npm$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#79603
On Wed, 19 May 2021 01:34:15 -0700
"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 5/19/2021 1:28 AM, MrSpook_pl1c1bg7i@7sxv4z8mvmyz_.ac.uk wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 May 2021 00:53:41 -0700
>> Presumably the same reason they're not part of the C language - C++ is a
>> cross platform language and some realtime kernel don't support futex's.
>
>Right. However, we can emulate an eventcount or futex in C++.

You can't emulate OS level locking in a higher level context.

>> Arguably even having built in threading support in C++ is a step too far.
>
>Why?

Because some systems don't even support threads - eg PIC.

>> After all, if it has threading why doesn't it have built in multi process
>> support too?
>
>Humm...

Humm indeed. I suspect its because the win32 process model is profoundly
broken and since Windows dev was/is arguably the largest user base for C++ 
they didn't see the point.

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#79610

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com>
Date2021-05-19 01:50 -0700
Message-ID<s82jgn$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#79608
On 5/19/2021 1:44 AM, MrSpook_6efnqt73nm@nyyte.com wrote:
> On Wed, 19 May 2021 01:34:15 -0700
> "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/19/2021 1:28 AM, MrSpook_pl1c1bg7i@7sxv4z8mvmyz_.ac.uk wrote:
>>> On Wed, 19 May 2021 00:53:41 -0700
>>> Presumably the same reason they're not part of the C language - C++ is a
>>> cross platform language and some realtime kernel don't support futex's.
>>
>> Right. However, we can emulate an eventcount or futex in C++.
> 
> You can't emulate OS level locking in a higher level context.

Why not? I can emulate an eventcount, a futex is not that far off and 
can be emulated as well. in C++11.


>>> Arguably even having built in threading support in C++ is a step too far.
>>
>> Why?
> 
> Because some systems don't even support threads - eg PIC.

That's fine. Why is that a problem? Does it support C++11? If so, the 
code shall run.


>>> After all, if it has threading why doesn't it have built in multi process
>>> support too?
>>
>> Humm...
> 
> Humm indeed. I suspect its because the win32 process model is profoundly
> broken and since Windows dev was/is arguably the largest user base for C++
> they didn't see the point.
> 


Windows has nothing to do with it.

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#79614

FromMrSpook_54rouunX@x37ixhgx27ymvhwc5.net
Date2021-05-19 09:31 +0000
Message-ID<s82lue$2f5$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#79610
On Wed, 19 May 2021 01:50:32 -0700
"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 5/19/2021 1:44 AM, MrSpook_6efnqt73nm@nyyte.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 May 2021 01:34:15 -0700
>> "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 5/19/2021 1:28 AM, MrSpook_pl1c1bg7i@7sxv4z8mvmyz_.ac.uk wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 19 May 2021 00:53:41 -0700
>>>> Presumably the same reason they're not part of the C language - C++ is a
>>>> cross platform language and some realtime kernel don't support futex's.
>>>
>>> Right. However, we can emulate an eventcount or futex in C++.
>> 
>> You can't emulate OS level locking in a higher level context.
>
>Why not? I can emulate an eventcount, a futex is not that far off and 
>can be emulated as well. in C++11.

Oh ok. So explain how you'd implement an atomic futex in userspace that say
was used to implement a semaphore that other processes would use.

>> 
>> Because some systems don't even support threads - eg PIC.
>
>That's fine. Why is that a problem? Does it support C++11? If so, the 
>code shall run.

No, it wouldn't. Real time compilers often only support a subset of a language
whether it be C or C++.

>> Humm indeed. I suspect its because the win32 process model is profoundly
>> broken and since Windows dev was/is arguably the largest user base for C++
>> they didn't see the point.
>> 
>
>
>Windows has nothing to do with it.

What is the reason then?

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#79643

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com>
Date2021-05-19 13:39 -0700
Message-ID<s83t2u$q0e$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#79614
On 5/19/2021 2:31 AM, MrSpook_54rouunX@x37ixhgx27ymvhwc5.net wrote:
> On Wed, 19 May 2021 01:50:32 -0700
> "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/19/2021 1:44 AM, MrSpook_6efnqt73nm@nyyte.com wrote:
>>> On Wed, 19 May 2021 01:34:15 -0700
>>> "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 5/19/2021 1:28 AM, MrSpook_pl1c1bg7i@7sxv4z8mvmyz_.ac.uk wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 19 May 2021 00:53:41 -0700
>>>>> Presumably the same reason they're not part of the C language - C++ is a
>>>>> cross platform language and some realtime kernel don't support futex's.
>>>>
>>>> Right. However, we can emulate an eventcount or futex in C++.
>>>
>>> You can't emulate OS level locking in a higher level context.
>>
>> Why not? I can emulate an eventcount, a futex is not that far off and
>> can be emulated as well. in C++11.
> 
> Oh ok. So explain how you'd implement an atomic futex in userspace that say
> was used to implement a semaphore that other processes would use.

Oh, I cannot do that in pure C/C++. Only Intraprocess.


> 
>>>
>>> Because some systems don't even support threads - eg PIC.
>>
>> That's fine. Why is that a problem? Does it support C++11? If so, the
>> code shall run.
> 
> No, it wouldn't. Real time compilers often only support a subset of a language
> whether it be C or C++.

If a compiler says it supports C/C++11, then C/C++11 code should run on it?

> 
>>> Humm indeed. I suspect its because the win32 process model is profoundly
>>> broken and since Windows dev was/is arguably the largest user base for C++
>>> they didn't see the point.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Windows has nothing to do with it.
> 
> What is the reason then?
> 

I am not exactly sure what you mean, but Windows has a futex like 
mechanism. I cannot remember if they can be used for interprocess 
communication:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/synchapi/nf-synchapi-waitonaddress

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#79644

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com>
Date2021-05-19 13:46 -0700
Message-ID<s83tes$vca$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#79643
On 5/19/2021 1:39 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 5/19/2021 2:31 AM, MrSpook_54rouunX@x37ixhgx27ymvhwc5.net wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 May 2021 01:50:32 -0700
>> "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 5/19/2021 1:44 AM, MrSpook_6efnqt73nm@nyyte.com wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 19 May 2021 01:34:15 -0700
>>>> "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 5/19/2021 1:28 AM, MrSpook_pl1c1bg7i@7sxv4z8mvmyz_.ac.uk wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 19 May 2021 00:53:41 -0700
>>>>>> Presumably the same reason they're not part of the C language - 
>>>>>> C++ is a
>>>>>> cross platform language and some realtime kernel don't support 
>>>>>> futex's.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right. However, we can emulate an eventcount or futex in C++.
>>>>
>>>> You can't emulate OS level locking in a higher level context.
>>>
>>> Why not? I can emulate an eventcount, a futex is not that far off and
>>> can be emulated as well. in C++11.
>>
>> Oh ok. So explain how you'd implement an atomic futex in userspace 
>> that say
>> was used to implement a semaphore that other processes would use.
> 
> Oh, I cannot do that in pure C/C++. Only Intraprocess.
[...]

Iirc, I did one a while back, before C/C++11 that hashed a pointer into 
a table of mutexes and condvars that was used as the addresses waitset. 
Iirc, I called that part of it a multimutex:

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.c++/c/sV4WC_cBb9Q/m/Ti8LFyH4CgAJ

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#79654

FromMrSpook_nkfcgvl@7o616.biz
Date2021-05-20 08:23 +0000
Message-ID<s8569h$gqf$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#79643
On Wed, 19 May 2021 13:39:58 -0700
"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 5/19/2021 2:31 AM, MrSpook_54rouunX@x37ixhgx27ymvhwc5.net wrote:
>> Oh ok. So explain how you'd implement an atomic futex in userspace that say
>> was used to implement a semaphore that other processes would use.
>
>Oh, I cannot do that in pure C/C++. Only Intraprocess.

Quite.

>> No, it wouldn't. Real time compilers often only support a subset of a
>language
>> whether it be C or C++.
>
>If a compiler says it supports C/C++11, then C/C++11 code should run on it?

If it says the entire spec then yes.

>>>> Humm indeed. I suspect its because the win32 process model is profoundly
>>>> broken and since Windows dev was/is arguably the largest user base for C++
>>>> they didn't see the point.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Windows has nothing to do with it.
>> 
>> What is the reason then?
>> 
>
>I am not exactly sure what you mean, but Windows has a futex like 
>mechanism. I cannot remember if they can be used for interprocess 
>communication:

I was talking about multi process in general. If C++ supports threads why
doesn't it support multi process too? My theory is because of the broken
windows process model - any lowest common denominator API would be next to
useless on unix. As it is C++ threads don't support 3 level locking (unless
its been added recently) like posix threads do which makes them useless for 
certain use cases.

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#79656

FromPaavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee>
Date2021-05-20 12:38 +0300
Message-ID<s85amv$mc6$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#79654
20.05.2021 11:23 MrSpook_nkfcgvl@7o616.biz kirjutas:
> I was talking about multi process in general. If C++ supports threads why
> doesn't it support multi process too? My theory is because of the broken
> windows process model - any lowest common denominator API would be next to
> useless on unix. 

The issue with posix style process creation (fork()) is that it does not 
play well with multithreading. Fork() creates a new process out of a 
single thread in the old process, but inherits all the memory space of 
the old process, including any mutex locks currently held by other 
threads. As in the new process these other threads do not exist, nobody 
will release these locks and the process can easily deadlock. Even if 
the locks could be released somehow (e.g. by pthread_atfork() or 
otherwise) the data structures they protected might easily remain in an 
inconsistent state. This is a direct quote from "man fork":

"After a fork() in a multithreaded program, the child can
safely call only async-signal-safe functions (see
signal-safety(7)) until such time as it calls execve(2)."

So what we effectively get is pretty similar to the Windows process 
creation model: a lot of complicated setup with limited functionality, 
and a new fresh process started with a new executable.

Thus one may argue it's the posix process creation model which is broken 
and does not fit well the current multithread-dominated software design.

One might try to limit multi-processing to single-thread programs only 
and getting fork() to work in Windows, but in practice this is not 
possible, even the simplest Hello World program immediately gets invaded 
by foreign threads created by antiviruses and shell extensions. I don't 
like this either, but there you are.

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#79659

FromMrSpook_5Xl@m9q7d5ux5tl8o5.co.uk
Date2021-05-20 14:38 +0000
Message-ID<s85s8o$17a9$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#79656
On Thu, 20 May 2021 16:20:24 +0200
Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I disagree. The windows process model which starts a new process from the
>> beginning each time with no state carried over (except for command line args)
>
>> is extremely limited in its usefulness. Posix can do that plus fork at a
>given
>> point with the new process being a carbon copy of the old one ...
>
>This is good for nothing.

Keep demonstrating your ignorance, its very amusing :)

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#79665

FromMr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc>
Date2021-05-20 17:43 +0000
Message-ID<gdxpI.462565$laG.230570@fx16.ams4>
In reply to#79659
On Thu, 20 May 2021 14:38:16 +0000, MrSpook_5Xl wrote:

> On Thu, 20 May 2021 16:20:24 +0200 Bonita Montero
> <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I disagree. The windows process model which starts a new process from
>>> the beginning each time with no state carried over (except for command
>>> line args)
>>
>>> is extremely limited in its usefulness. Posix can do that plus fork at
>>> a
>>given
>>> point with the new process being a carbon copy of the old one ...
>>
>>This is good for nothing.
> 
> Keep demonstrating your ignorance, its very amusing :)

Do you even know why fork() actually exists? Because back in the day 
THREADS weren't a thing. If you want to COPY lots of program state using 
fork() then why the fuck aren't you using threads? Processes are 
heavyweight OS primitives compared to threads. These days fork() and 
associated horribleness like Linux's overcommit are an anachronism. 

/Flibble

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#79674

FromMrSpook_dg01t9p2@m0m4iuefk1x.edu
Date2021-05-21 09:16 +0000
Message-ID<s87tq7$1g60$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#79665
On Thu, 20 May 2021 17:43:40 GMT
Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> wrote:
>On Thu, 20 May 2021 14:38:16 +0000, MrSpook_5Xl wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 20 May 2021 16:20:24 +0200 Bonita Montero
>> <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I disagree. The windows process model which starts a new process from
>>>> the beginning each time with no state carried over (except for command
>>>> line args)
>>>
>>>> is extremely limited in its usefulness. Posix can do that plus fork at
>>>> a
>>>given
>>>> point with the new process being a carbon copy of the old one ...
>>>
>>>This is good for nothing.
>> 
>> Keep demonstrating your ignorance, its very amusing :)
>
>Do you even know why fork() actually exists? Because back in the day 
>THREADS weren't a thing. If you want to COPY lots of program state using 

Threads were a thing back in mainframe days you dick, along with VMs too.

>fork() then why the fuck aren't you using threads? Processes are 

Because in serious applications - ie nothing you write - robustness trumps
speed of creation. A single process starts, loads up init then when a user
or some other event needs servicing you fire off a seperate process so if
that process dies it doesn't take town the whole fucking application. Oracle
uses this method for good reason. Some browsers recently switched to a 
process-per-tab model too.

It always amuses me when people who've only ever coded on windows spout a load
of crap about things they know nothing about.

>heavyweight OS primitives compared to threads. These days fork() and 
>associated horribleness like Linux's overcommit are an anachronism. 

Whatever you say Dilbert.

https://dilbert.com/strip/1995-06-24

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#79680

FromBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Date2021-05-21 13:38 +0200
Message-ID<s8862s$9cp$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#79674
> Oracle uses this method for good reason. ...
Look at MS SQL Server - a DB-Server with a much modern architecture
- it runs solid with MT since the first version in the 90s.

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#79682

FromMrSpook_L1peqs_@c81ltrsr_gfoo1.co.uk
Date2021-05-21 13:39 +0000
Message-ID<s88d70$11a3$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#79680
On Fri, 21 May 2021 13:38:03 +0200
Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Oracle uses this method for good reason. ...
>Look at MS SQL Server - a DB-Server with a much modern architecture
>- it runs solid with MT since the first version in the 90s.

Clearly you never used the early versions. No one would bet their company
on SQL Server back then, it was an unreliable toy compared to Oracle. Even
today its feature list is poor compared to Oracle plus Oracle runs on
virtually every OS that it can, SQL Server is Windows only.

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#79685

FromBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Date2021-05-21 15:46 +0200
Message-ID<s88dji$mrm$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#79682
> Clearly you never used the early versions. ...

I did use it since the 90s. You don't.

> No one would bet their company on SQL Server back then,
> it was an unreliable toy compared to Oracle.

Have you ever noticed the periodic volleys of hundreds of fixes
from Oracle in the press ? Have there ever been so much fixes
on SQL Server ? You're really stupid.

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#79690

FromMrSpook_km@gfepxabk0g_ytn7ta.net
Date2021-05-21 14:48 +0000
Message-ID<s88h89$12gu$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#79685
On Fri, 21 May 2021 15:46:25 +0200
Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Clearly you never used the early versions. ...
>
>I did use it since the 90s. You don't.
>
>> No one would bet their company on SQL Server back then,
>> it was an unreliable toy compared to Oracle.
>
>Have you ever noticed the periodic volleys of hundreds of fixes
>from Oracle in the press ? Have there ever been so much fixes
>on SQL Server ? You're really stupid.

Yes, I'm weally weally shtupid.

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#79692

FromBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Date2021-05-21 17:03 +0200
Message-ID<s88i36$mld$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#79690
> Yes, I'm weally weally shtupid.

As we say in Germany:
insight is the first step towards improvement.

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#79687

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2021-05-21 14:15 +0000
Message-ID<5gPpI.412158$ST2.114507@fx47.iad>
In reply to#79682
MrSpook_L1peqs_@c81ltrsr_gfoo1.co.uk writes:
>On Fri, 21 May 2021 13:38:03 +0200
>Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Oracle uses this method for good reason. ...
>>Look at MS SQL Server - a DB-Server with a much modern architecture
>>- it runs solid with MT since the first version in the 90s.
>
>Clearly you never used the early versions. No one would bet their company
>on SQL Server back then, it was an unreliable toy compared to Oracle. 

Sybase (the code base that SQL Server was based on) was a fairly
robust and popular RDBMS in the day.  Of course, SQL server ran on unix
at that time (Ashton-Tate/Microsoft SQL Server 1.0).   Microsoft received
sole license to x86 in 1988.

     August 1991: Sybase goes public at a split adjusted price of $4.40. 
                  Sybase SQL server 4.0, and later 4.8 (the first smp server)
                  and 4.9.1, all outperformed competitors by significant margins
                  in standard benchmarks.
     1993: Sybase and Microsoft dissolve their partnership. Microsoft
           receives a copy of the SQL Server code base. In exchange Sybase
           is free to deploy on the x86 platform which has now become the
           chip of choice for Unix. Sybase SQL Server version 4.2 and Microsoft
           SQL Server are identical. Their Transact-SQL (T-SQL) procedural
           language is the same, as is the basic process architecture. From this
           point the products diverge as Microsoft includes more Windows features
           whilst Sybase adds Enterprise features (performance and scaling).

(in 1998 my former co-worker John Chen became CEO of Sybase after a stint at Pyramid).

Sybase was noted for storing data in columns rather than rows.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Column-oriented_DBMS

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#79691

FromMrSpook_6f@fypmp_.biz
Date2021-05-21 14:57 +0000
Message-ID<s88hp9$1an2$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#79687
On Fri, 21 May 2021 14:15:29 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>MrSpook_L1peqs_@c81ltrsr_gfoo1.co.uk writes:
>>On Fri, 21 May 2021 13:38:03 +0200
>>Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Oracle uses this method for good reason. ...
>>>Look at MS SQL Server - a DB-Server with a much modern architecture
>>>- it runs solid with MT since the first version in the 90s.
>>
>>Clearly you never used the early versions. No one would bet their company
>>on SQL Server back then, it was an unreliable toy compared to Oracle. 
>
>Sybase (the code base that SQL Server was based on) was a fairly
>robust and popular RDBMS in the day.  Of course, SQL server ran on unix

Sybase was ok, I used it for quite a long time in finance as it was popular
there due to a much lower install cost than Oracle. To give it credit T/SQL is 
a much nicer language than Oracles PL/SQL, but its dirty read transaction 
system was hopeless and it had no deadlock handling mechanism other than the 
kill one of the deadlocked processes which is frankly fucking useless and a 
PITA when it happens in the middle of the night - which it did, often. Oracle 
when presented with a deadlock does a silent rollback on one of the 
transactions and suspends it until it can proceed.

>     1993: Sybase and Microsoft dissolve their partnership. Microsoft
>           receives a copy of the SQL Server code base. In exchange Sybase
>           is free to deploy on the x86 platform which has now become the
>           chip of choice for Unix. Sybase SQL Server version 4.2 and Microsoft

x86 chip of choice for Unix in 93? Who wrote that, Darl McBride? PA-RISC and 
Sparc had the unix space carved up between them back then with RS/6000 bringing
up the rear. x86 was SCO which was a bit part player in the unix arena.

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