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Is there a term for all tasks around programming?

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  Is there a term for all tasks around programming? DeMarcus <use_my_alias_here@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-22 11:25 +0200
    Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Fulvio Esposito <esposito.fulvio@gmail.com> - 2011-09-22 02:33 -0700
    Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-22 21:35 +1200
      Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-22 11:36 +0000
        Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-23 07:43 +1200
    Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-22 11:17 +0000
      Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? DeMarcus <use_my_alias_here@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-22 14:13 +0200
        Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-22 12:47 +0000
          Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-22 13:21 +0000
            Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? DeMarcus <use_my_alias_here@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-22 15:34 +0200
              Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-23 15:32 +0000
    Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-22 13:12 +0000
      Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? DeMarcus <use_my_alias_here@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-22 15:45 +0200
        Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-27 18:59 +0000
    Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> - 2011-09-22 11:51 -0700
      Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-22 12:23 -0700
        Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? DeMarcus <use_my_alias_here@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-23 10:36 +0200
          Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-26 22:39 -0700
      Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-23 11:26 +0100
        Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-23 20:30 +0900
          Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-23 14:06 +0100
            Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Victor Bazarov <v.bazarov@comcast.invalid> - 2011-09-23 09:25 -0400
              Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Keith H Duggar <duggar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-09-23 09:37 -0700
              Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-23 20:43 +0100
                Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-26 10:34 +0000
            Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-24 05:06 +0900
            Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-25 07:39 -0700
        Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-23 12:09 -0500
          Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-23 19:44 +0100
            Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-25 19:03 +0000
    Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Keith H Duggar <duggar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-09-22 12:36 -0700
      Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-23 11:11 +0100
        Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-23 22:56 +1200
          Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-23 12:11 +0100
            Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-24 08:46 +1200
              Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-24 21:55 +0100
            Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Edek <edek.pienkowski@gmail.com> - 2011-09-23 22:59 +0200
              Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-24 21:53 +0100
                Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-25 11:05 +1300
                  Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-25 13:00 +0100
                    Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Edek <edek.pienkowski@gmail.com> - 2011-09-25 15:43 +0200
                    Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-25 07:54 -0700
                    Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-26 08:15 +1300
                      Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Ebenezer <woodbrian77@gmail.com> - 2011-09-25 21:26 -0700
                        Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-26 17:32 +1300
                        Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-26 17:10 +0900
                Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-26 11:04 +0000
        Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-25 07:45 -0700
          Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-25 19:28 +0100
            Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-26 02:03 -0700
              Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-26 12:43 +0100

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#10374 — Is there a term for all tasks around programming?

Hi,

We all do software development. Some even do software architecture. But 
is there a common name for all the things around software development?

With things around software development I mean for instance:

* Version controlling, e.g. cvs, svn, git, etc.
* Documentation, e.g. Doxygen, etc.
* Bug- and issue tracking, e.g. Bugzilla, Jira, etc.
* Unit testing, e.g. TDD, etc.
* Build systems, e.g. TeamCity, etc.


Is there a common name for all that kind of work above? I couldn't find 
any on the net so I just invented two alternatives to start with:

Development Groundwork
or
Development Support


Or is there already a common name?

Thanks,
Daniel

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#10376

On Thursday, September 22, 2011 11:25:50 AM UTC+2, DeMarcus wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> We all do software development. Some even do software architecture. But 
> is there a common name for all the things around software development?
> 
> With things around software development I mean for instance:
> 
> * Version controlling, e.g. cvs, svn, git, etc.
> * Documentation, e.g. Doxygen, etc.
> * Bug- and issue tracking, e.g. Bugzilla, Jira, etc.
> * Unit testing, e.g. TDD, etc.
> * Build systems, e.g. TeamCity, etc.
> 
> 
> Is there a common name for all that kind of work above? I couldn't find 
> any on the net so I just invented two alternatives to start with:
> 
> Development Groundwork
> or
> Development Support
> 
> 
> Or is there already a common name?
> 
> Thanks,
> Daniel

maybe toolchain?

Cheers,
Fulvio

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#10377

On 09/22/11 09:25 PM, DeMarcus wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We all do software development. Some even do software architecture. But
> is there a common name for all the things around software development?
>
> With things around software development I mean for instance:
>
> * Version controlling, e.g. cvs, svn, git, etc.
> * Documentation, e.g. Doxygen, etc.
> * Bug- and issue tracking, e.g. Bugzilla, Jira, etc.
> * Unit testing, e.g. TDD, etc.
> * Build systems, e.g. TeamCity, etc.
>
>
> Is there a common name for all that kind of work above?

Pain.

With the exception of Unit testing which is development.

-- 
Ian Collins

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#10380

On Thu, 2011-09-22, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 09/22/11 09:25 PM, DeMarcus wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> We all do software development. Some even do software architecture. But
>> is there a common name for all the things around software development?
>>
>> With things around software development I mean for instance:
>>
>> * Version controlling, e.g. cvs, svn, git, etc.
>> * Documentation, e.g. Doxygen, etc.
>> * Bug- and issue tracking, e.g. Bugzilla, Jira, etc.
>> * Unit testing, e.g. TDD, etc.
>> * Build systems, e.g. TeamCity, etc.
>>
>>
>> Is there a common name for all that kind of work above?
>
> Pain.
>
> With the exception of Unit testing which is development.

When they are painful, it's partly because people like us don't
think they are important enough to do right, or they are "someone
else's" problem, or something ...

All the thing listed exist for one reason: so we can do our job.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

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#10403

On 09/22/11 11:36 PM, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-09-22, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 09/22/11 09:25 PM, DeMarcus wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> We all do software development. Some even do software architecture. But
>>> is there a common name for all the things around software development?
>>>
>>> With things around software development I mean for instance:
>>>
>>> * Version controlling, e.g. cvs, svn, git, etc.
>>> * Documentation, e.g. Doxygen, etc.
>>> * Bug- and issue tracking, e.g. Bugzilla, Jira, etc.
>>> * Unit testing, e.g. TDD, etc.
>>> * Build systems, e.g. TeamCity, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there a common name for all that kind of work above?
>>
>> Pain.
>>
>> With the exception of Unit testing which is development.
>
> When they are painful, it's partly because people like us don't
> think they are important enough to do right, or they are "someone
> else's" problem, or something ...

Oh I do think they are important.  In the last team I managed, my only 
non-manger direct reports were the chaps who looked after the above 
(less unit tests). "SCM Admins" we called them.

-- 
Ian Collins

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#10378

On Thu, 2011-09-22, DeMarcus wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We all do software development. Some even do software architecture. But 
> is there a common name for all the things around software development?

Maybe ... software development?

> With things around software development I mean for instance:
>
> * Version controlling, e.g. cvs, svn, git, etc.
> * Documentation, e.g. Doxygen, etc.
> * Bug- and issue tracking, e.g. Bugzilla, Jira, etc.
> * Unit testing, e.g. TDD, etc.
> * Build systems, e.g. TeamCity, etc.
>
>
> Is there a common name for all that kind of work above? I couldn't find 
> any on the net so I just invented two alternatives to start with:
>
> Development Groundwork
> or
> Development Support

Oh, so you want a name for everything but the pure programming
(defined as the activity which starts with an idea and ends with an
untested, undocumented executable).

I think it's both pointless and harmful to try to split those. Don't
do it.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

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#10382

On 09/22/2011 01:17 PM, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-09-22, DeMarcus wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> We all do software development. Some even do software architecture. But
>> is there a common name for all the things around software development?
>
> Maybe ... software development?
>
>> With things around software development I mean for instance:
>>
>> * Version controlling, e.g. cvs, svn, git, etc.
>> * Documentation, e.g. Doxygen, etc.
>> * Bug- and issue tracking, e.g. Bugzilla, Jira, etc.
>> * Unit testing, e.g. TDD, etc.
>> * Build systems, e.g. TeamCity, etc.
>>
>>
>> Is there a common name for all that kind of work above? I couldn't find
>> any on the net so I just invented two alternatives to start with:
>>
>> Development Groundwork
>> or
>> Development Support
>
> Oh, so you want a name for everything but the pure programming
> (defined as the activity which starts with an idea and ends with an
> untested, undocumented executable).
>
> I think it's both pointless and harmful to try to split those. Don't
> do it.
>

We have the same opinion but let me explain. There are situations when 
it's bad to put them together. It's when the manager says; focus on the 
programming! (so documentation and unit tests are left out since the 
manager thinks those are optional)

If they're split I believe we can track the quality of it better. Just 
like we split software development and software architecture, I would 
like to split development and work connected to development to be able 
to give the work connected to development a name to be able to give it 
better focus.


/Daniel

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#10384

On Thu, 2011-09-22, DeMarcus wrote:
> On 09/22/2011 01:17 PM, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
...
>> Oh, so you want a name for everything but the pure programming
>> (defined as the activity which starts with an idea and ends with an
>> untested, undocumented executable).
>>
>> I think it's both pointless and harmful to try to split those. Don't
>> do it.
>>
>
> We have the same opinion but let me explain. There are situations when 
> it's bad to put them together. It's when the manager says; focus on the 
> programming! (so documentation and unit tests are left out since the 
> manager thinks those are optional)

Argh.

> If they're split I believe we can track the quality of it better. Just 
> like we split software development and software architecture, I would 
> like to split development and work connected to development to be able 
> to give the work connected to development a name to be able to give it 
> better focus.

I think the manager might be happier if he gets to choose the name for
it. Then you write a fake magazine article about how great FOO is, let
a friend do a business magazine-style layout, and slip it between page
4 and 5 in one of the glossies your manager is reading ;-)

(Seriously, I have no good suggestions. Maybe something with
"maintainability" or "long-term survival" in the name.)

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

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#10387

In article <slrnj7mbia.1bk.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid>,
Jorgen Grahn  <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>On Thu, 2011-09-22, DeMarcus wrote:
>> On 09/22/2011 01:17 PM, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>...
>>> Oh, so you want a name for everything but the pure programming
>>> (defined as the activity which starts with an idea and ends with an
>>> untested, undocumented executable).
>>>
>>> I think it's both pointless and harmful to try to split those. Don't
>>> do it.
>>>
>>
>> We have the same opinion but let me explain. There are situations when 
>> it's bad to put them together. It's when the manager says; focus on the 
>> programming! (so documentation and unit tests are left out since the 
>> manager thinks those are optional)
>
>Argh.
>
>> If they're split I believe we can track the quality of it better. Just 
>> like we split software development and software architecture, I would 
>> like to split development and work connected to development to be able 
>> to give the work connected to development a name to be able to give it 
>> better focus.
>
>I think the manager might be happier if he gets to choose the name for
>it. Then you write a fake magazine article about how great FOO is, let
>a friend do a business magazine-style layout, and slip it between page
>4 and 5 in one of the glossies your manager is reading ;-)
>
>(Seriously, I have no good suggestions. Maybe something with
>"maintainability" or "long-term survival" in the name.)

No documentation might only create problems in the long-term but no
unit tests...

Manager:  
"Just focus on the code.  just implement that feature as fast as
possible, we need it yesterday!  Implement this calculator now!"


Dev:
"OK, if you insist."

int add(int a, int b)
{ 
  return 7;
}
int mult(int a, int b)
{
  return 12;
}

"Done!  I've implemented both the add and mult function.  I haven't
had time to fully test it 'though."

Manager:
"That's alright. Just send it to the test department."

...

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#10388

On 09/22/2011 03:21 PM, none Yannick Tremblay wrote:
> In article<slrnj7mbia.1bk.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid>,
> Jorgen Grahn<grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>  wrote:
>> On Thu, 2011-09-22, DeMarcus wrote:
>>> On 09/22/2011 01:17 PM, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>> ...
>>>> Oh, so you want a name for everything but the pure programming
>>>> (defined as the activity which starts with an idea and ends with an
>>>> untested, undocumented executable).
>>>>
>>>> I think it's both pointless and harmful to try to split those. Don't
>>>> do it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> We have the same opinion but let me explain. There are situations when
>>> it's bad to put them together. It's when the manager says; focus on the
>>> programming! (so documentation and unit tests are left out since the
>>> manager thinks those are optional)
>>
>> Argh.
>>
>>> If they're split I believe we can track the quality of it better. Just
>>> like we split software development and software architecture, I would
>>> like to split development and work connected to development to be able
>>> to give the work connected to development a name to be able to give it
>>> better focus.
>>
>> I think the manager might be happier if he gets to choose the name for
>> it. Then you write a fake magazine article about how great FOO is, let
>> a friend do a business magazine-style layout, and slip it between page
>> 4 and 5 in one of the glossies your manager is reading ;-)
>>
>> (Seriously, I have no good suggestions. Maybe something with
>> "maintainability" or "long-term survival" in the name.)
>
> No documentation might only create problems in the long-term but no
> unit tests...
>
> Manager:
> "Just focus on the code.  just implement that feature as fast as
> possible, we need it yesterday!  Implement this calculator now!"
>
>
> Dev:
> "OK, if you insist."
>
> int add(int a, int b)
> {
>    return 7;
> }
> int mult(int a, int b)
> {
>    return 12;
> }
>
> "Done!  I've implemented both the add and mult function.  I haven't
> had time to fully test it 'though."
>
> Manager:
> "That's alright. Just send it to the test department."
>
> ...
>

I like your way of sliding in TDD without anyone noticing, however, when 
it comes back from the test department, the time to fix it will be 
logged as bugfix on the developer's account. No salary raise that year 
either...

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#10435

In article <4e7b3961$0$284$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
DeMarcus  <use_my_alias_here@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On 09/22/2011 03:21 PM, none Yannick Tremblay wrote:
>> In article<slrnj7mbia.1bk.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid>,
>>
>> No documentation might only create problems in the long-term but no
>> unit tests...
>>
>> Manager:
>> "Just focus on the code.  just implement that feature as fast as
>> possible, we need it yesterday!  Implement this calculator now!"
>>
>>
>> Dev:
>> "OK, if you insist."
>>
>> int add(int a, int b)
>> {
>>    return 7;
>> }
>> int mult(int a, int b)
>> {
>>    return 12;
>> }
>>
>> "Done!  I've implemented both the add and mult function.  I haven't
>> had time to fully test it 'though."
>>
>> Manager:
>> "That's alright. Just send it to the test department."
>>
>> ...
>>
>
>I like your way of sliding in TDD without anyone noticing, however, when 
>it comes back from the test department, the time to fix it will be 
>logged as bugfix on the developer's account. No salary raise that year 
>either...

Yes.  But that's better than the alternative.  Since the Dilbert
manager demanded the feature to be implemented today, the Dilbert
software writer is better delivering an untested (knowingly
non-working) feature than get sacked 

:-)

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#10385

In article <4e7aff26$0$283$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
DeMarcus  <use_my_alias_here@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>We all do software development. Some even do software architecture. But 
>is there a common name for all the things around software development?
>
>With things around software development I mean for instance:
>
>* Version controlling, e.g. cvs, svn, git, etc.
>* Documentation, e.g. Doxygen, etc.
>* Bug- and issue tracking, e.g. Bugzilla, Jira, etc.
>* Unit testing, e.g. TDD, etc.
>* Build systems, e.g. TeamCity, etc.
>
>
>Is there a common name for all that kind of work above? I couldn't find 
>any on the net so I just invented two alternatives to start with:
>
>Development Groundwork
>or
>Development Support
>
>
>Or is there already a common name?

Not a single term for all of them.  

I've seen Configuration Management used for Version Controlling and
sometimes build system. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Configuration_management#Software_configuration_management

Unit Testing should be an integral part of development. 


Yannick

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#10391

On 09/22/2011 03:12 PM, none Yannick Tremblay wrote:
> In article<4e7aff26$0$283$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
> DeMarcus<use_my_alias_here@hotmail.com>  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> We all do software development. Some even do software architecture. But
>> is there a common name for all the things around software development?
>>
>> With things around software development I mean for instance:
>>
>> * Version controlling, e.g. cvs, svn, git, etc.
>> * Documentation, e.g. Doxygen, etc.
>> * Bug- and issue tracking, e.g. Bugzilla, Jira, etc.
>> * Unit testing, e.g. TDD, etc.
>> * Build systems, e.g. TeamCity, etc.
>>
>>
>> Is there a common name for all that kind of work above? I couldn't find
>> any on the net so I just invented two alternatives to start with:
>>
>> Development Groundwork
>> or
>> Development Support
>>
>>
>> Or is there already a common name?
>
> Not a single term for all of them.
>
> I've seen Configuration Management used for Version Controlling and
> sometimes build system.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Configuration_management#Software_configuration_management
>

True, however, Configuration Management focus on a /part/ of, let's call 
it Development Support. Also, Configuration Management usually only 
involves a few people per team.

> Unit Testing should be an integral part of development.
>
>

That's true, but as I mentioned in another post, if we don't separate 
the things then these surrounding tasks (like TDD and documentation) are 
easy seen as optional by many, and the lack of it may pass unseen until 
it's too late. If we give it a name then we can just raise a hand and 
ask the narrow-minded manager; shall we skip Development Support or 
shall we continue using it? Then it becomes a bigger decision to take.

I'm just ventilating my ideas. Maybe this is not a real problem worth 
chasing a naming convention for.

/Daniel

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#10549

On Thu, 2011-09-22, DeMarcus wrote:
> On 09/22/2011 03:12 PM, none Yannick Tremblay wrote:
...
>> I've seen Configuration Management used for Version Controlling and
>> sometimes build system.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Configuration_management#Software_configuration_management
>>
>
> True, however, Configuration Management focus on a /part/ of, let's call 
> it Development Support. Also, Configuration Management usually only 
> involves a few people per team.

I repeat myself, but I have to disagree again.

There may be a guy called "the CM" and he may even be useful --
keeping track of large-scale things and providing advice.  But 
if I as a programmer pretend that CM is someone else's problem,
I'm not doing my job.  I need to make the work I do blend in well with
the work others do; I need to be able to deliver feature FOO without
also delivering the incomplete feature BAR. And so on.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

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#10398

On 9/22/2011 2:25 AM, DeMarcus wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We all do software development. Some even do software architecture. But
> is there a common name for all the things around software development?
>
> With things around software development I mean for instance:
>
> * Version controlling, e.g. cvs, svn, git, etc.
> * Documentation, e.g. Doxygen, etc.
> * Bug- and issue tracking, e.g. Bugzilla, Jira, etc.
> * Unit testing, e.g. TDD, etc.
> * Build systems, e.g. TeamCity, etc.
>
>
> Is there a common name for all that kind of work above? I couldn't find
> any on the net so I just invented two alternatives to start with:
>
> Development Groundwork
> or
> Development Support
>
>
> Or is there already a common name?

Software Engineering

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#10400

On 9/22/2011 11:51 AM, red floyd wrote:
> On 9/22/2011 2:25 AM, DeMarcus wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> We all do software development. Some even do software architecture. But
>> is there a common name for all the things around software development?
>>
>> With things around software development I mean for instance:
>>
>> * Version controlling, e.g. cvs, svn, git, etc.
>> * Documentation, e.g. Doxygen, etc.
>> * Bug- and issue tracking, e.g. Bugzilla, Jira, etc.
>> * Unit testing, e.g. TDD, etc.
>> * Build systems, e.g. TeamCity, etc.
>>
>>
>> Is there a common name for all that kind of work above? I couldn't find
>> any on the net so I just invented two alternatives to start with:
>>
>> Development Groundwork
>> or
>> Development Support
>>
>>
>> Or is there already a common name?
>
> Software Engineering
>

yes, although often Software Engineer is also used as a glorified term 
for a Programmer (which doesn't necessarily imply doing things like 
documentation or writing unit tests).


also fairly common is the "code and go" strategy, where one writes code, 
basically verifies that it about works (via manual testing), and calls 
it "good enough" until bugs or crashes start making an issue (then one 
goes and debugs them).

if there are other people around, then usually they will be responsible 
for doing this other stuff (the documentation person documents it, and 
the tester tests it and reports bugs).

or, otherwise, it is a single-person project, where one has to 
prioritize where they will invest their time, and where having good 
documentation may be a much lower priority than "getting it done" or 
"getting the next round of features added", ...

a Programmer may differ some from a Coder, where the former is 
generally/often given the ability to think and write code independently 
(they decide the best way to implement the requirements, ...), whereas a 
Coder usually has all designs/specifications/... handed down "from 
above", say: "here is a class diagram, list of functions and methods, 
and behavioral descriptions. now go implement it." (in this case, the 
Software Engineer is generally the person who writes up the stuff that 
the coder goes and implements).

the differences can be subtle, and often the term "programmer" is used 
in the same sense as "coder" above.


but, used in-sense, Software Engineer implies doing lots of design and 
trying to make everything proper and similar (like, the whole "engineer" 
part).


however, in my case, I mostly just claim to be a programmer.

although what I do does have some overlap with what would be considered 
a software-engineers' area (being a lone developer, I deal with pretty 
much everything), the primary goal remains that of getting things 
implemented and working, ideally in a timely manner (and usually getting 
things working "now" is a much higher priority than any future 
maintainability).


or such...

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#10417

On 09/22/2011 09:23 PM, BGB wrote:
> On 9/22/2011 11:51 AM, red floyd wrote:
>> On 9/22/2011 2:25 AM, DeMarcus wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> We all do software development. Some even do software architecture. But
>>> is there a common name for all the things around software development?
>>>
>>> With things around software development I mean for instance:
>>>
>>> * Version controlling, e.g. cvs, svn, git, etc.
>>> * Documentation, e.g. Doxygen, etc.
>>> * Bug- and issue tracking, e.g. Bugzilla, Jira, etc.
>>> * Unit testing, e.g. TDD, etc.
>>> * Build systems, e.g. TeamCity, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there a common name for all that kind of work above? I couldn't find
>>> any on the net so I just invented two alternatives to start with:
>>>
>>> Development Groundwork
>>> or
>>> Development Support
>>>
>>>
>>> Or is there already a common name?
>>
>> Software Engineering
>>
>
> yes, although often Software Engineer is also used as a glorified term
> for a Programmer (which doesn't necessarily imply doing things like
> documentation or writing unit tests).
>
>
> also fairly common is the "code and go" strategy, where one writes code,
> basically verifies that it about works (via manual testing), and calls
> it "good enough" until bugs or crashes start making an issue (then one
> goes and debugs them).
>
> if there are other people around, then usually they will be responsible
> for doing this other stuff (the documentation person documents it, and
> the tester tests it and reports bugs).
>
> or, otherwise, it is a single-person project, where one has to
> prioritize where they will invest their time, and where having good
> documentation may be a much lower priority than "getting it done" or
> "getting the next round of features added", ...
>
> a Programmer may differ some from a Coder, where the former is
> generally/often given the ability to think and write code independently
> (they decide the best way to implement the requirements, ...), whereas a
> Coder usually has all designs/specifications/... handed down "from
> above", say: "here is a class diagram, list of functions and methods,
> and behavioral descriptions. now go implement it." (in this case, the
> Software Engineer is generally the person who writes up the stuff that
> the coder goes and implements).
>
> the differences can be subtle, and often the term "programmer" is used
> in the same sense as "coder" above.
>
>
> but, used in-sense, Software Engineer implies doing lots of design and
> trying to make everything proper and similar (like, the whole "engineer"
> part).
>
>
> however, in my case, I mostly just claim to be a programmer.
>
> although what I do does have some overlap with what would be considered
> a software-engineers' area (being a lone developer, I deal with pretty
> much everything), the primary goal remains that of getting things
> implemented and working, ideally in a timely manner (and usually getting
> things working "now" is a much higher priority than any future
> maintainability).
>
>
> or such...

I like your definitions. How about this?

* Software Architect - Designs frameworks, communication and 
dependencies in applications and between applications.

* Software Engineer - Designs specific modules in an application, often 
specialized in some field like mathematics, protocols, or certain domain 
specific knowledge.

* Coder - Implements specifications. Could be a person directly from school.


/ Daniel

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#10532

On 9/23/2011 1:36 AM, DeMarcus wrote:
> On 09/22/2011 09:23 PM, BGB wrote:
>> On 9/22/2011 11:51 AM, red floyd wrote:
>>> On 9/22/2011 2:25 AM, DeMarcus wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> We all do software development. Some even do software architecture. But
>>>> is there a common name for all the things around software development?
>>>>
>>>> With things around software development I mean for instance:
>>>>
>>>> * Version controlling, e.g. cvs, svn, git, etc.
>>>> * Documentation, e.g. Doxygen, etc.
>>>> * Bug- and issue tracking, e.g. Bugzilla, Jira, etc.
>>>> * Unit testing, e.g. TDD, etc.
>>>> * Build systems, e.g. TeamCity, etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is there a common name for all that kind of work above? I couldn't find
>>>> any on the net so I just invented two alternatives to start with:
>>>>
>>>> Development Groundwork
>>>> or
>>>> Development Support
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or is there already a common name?
>>>
>>> Software Engineering
>>>
>>
>> yes, although often Software Engineer is also used as a glorified term
>> for a Programmer (which doesn't necessarily imply doing things like
>> documentation or writing unit tests).
>>
>>
>> also fairly common is the "code and go" strategy, where one writes code,
>> basically verifies that it about works (via manual testing), and calls
>> it "good enough" until bugs or crashes start making an issue (then one
>> goes and debugs them).
>>
>> if there are other people around, then usually they will be responsible
>> for doing this other stuff (the documentation person documents it, and
>> the tester tests it and reports bugs).
>>
>> or, otherwise, it is a single-person project, where one has to
>> prioritize where they will invest their time, and where having good
>> documentation may be a much lower priority than "getting it done" or
>> "getting the next round of features added", ...
>>
>> a Programmer may differ some from a Coder, where the former is
>> generally/often given the ability to think and write code independently
>> (they decide the best way to implement the requirements, ...), whereas a
>> Coder usually has all designs/specifications/... handed down "from
>> above", say: "here is a class diagram, list of functions and methods,
>> and behavioral descriptions. now go implement it." (in this case, the
>> Software Engineer is generally the person who writes up the stuff that
>> the coder goes and implements).
>>
>> the differences can be subtle, and often the term "programmer" is used
>> in the same sense as "coder" above.
>>
>>
>> but, used in-sense, Software Engineer implies doing lots of design and
>> trying to make everything proper and similar (like, the whole "engineer"
>> part).
>>
>>
>> however, in my case, I mostly just claim to be a programmer.
>>
>> although what I do does have some overlap with what would be considered
>> a software-engineers' area (being a lone developer, I deal with pretty
>> much everything), the primary goal remains that of getting things
>> implemented and working, ideally in a timely manner (and usually getting
>> things working "now" is a much higher priority than any future
>> maintainability).
>>
>>
>> or such...
>
> I like your definitions. How about this?
>
> * Software Architect - Designs frameworks, communication and
> dependencies in applications and between applications.
>
> * Software Engineer - Designs specific modules in an application, often
> specialized in some field like mathematics, protocols, or certain domain
> specific knowledge.
>
> * Coder - Implements specifications. Could be a person directly from
> school.
>

fair enough, however often the roles of architects and engineers are not 
often so clearly separated, or in smaller projects, there may not be 
much separation between the people doing the design and the people doing 
the programming.

a lot depends likely on the size of the project and the size of the 
team, as well as potentially on the particular "development culture" in 
play, ...


>
> / Daniel

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#10422

red floyd wrote:

>> Or is there already a common name?
> 
> Software Engineering

Among the tasks which were pointed out, I fail to find a single task which 
can be labelled as engineering.  This means that, although some software 
developers might wish to be labelled as engineers, that doesn't mean it's 
true.  

This reminds me how the so called "railroad engineers" are often used as a 
reference of a professional practice which abuses the term "engineer" as a 
form of grandstanding, while avoiding other terms which are more appropriate 
to the task they actually perform such as "train operator" or "train 
driver".  The thing is, even though the so called "railroad engineers" are 
clearly not engineers, their job actually requires a level of 
responsibility, and therefore civil and criminal liability, far greater than 
that which is required for a typical software developer job.  Therefore, if 
it doesn't make sense to label a "train operator" as an engineer then why 
would it make sense to try to label a software developer as one?


Rui Maciel

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#10429

Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> writes:
> This reminds me how the so called "railroad engineers" are often
> used as a reference of a professional practice which abuses the term
> "engineer" as a form of grandstanding, while avoiding other terms
> which are more appropriate to the task they actually perform such as
> "train operator" or "train driver".

I don't think "railroad engineer" is abuse/grandstanding/etc, just a
very old term...

-Miles

-- 
Justice, n. A commodity which in a more or less adulterated condition the
State sells to the citizen as a reward for his allegiance, taxes and personal
service.

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