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Debugger Recommendation

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  Debugger Recommendation Joseph Hesse <joeh@gmail.com> - 2011-08-29 09:40 -0500
    Re: Debugger Recommendation Victor Bazarov <v.bazarov@comcast.invalid> - 2011-08-29 11:01 -0400
    Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-08-29 19:19 +0200
      Re: Debugger Recommendation "Waldek M." <wm@localhost.localdomain> - 2011-08-29 21:37 +0200
        Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-30 07:51 +1200
          Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-08-29 22:52 +0200
            Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-30 08:56 +1200
              Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-08-29 23:00 +0200
                Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-30 09:21 +1200
                Re: Debugger Recommendation Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-08-30 04:58 +0100
          Re: Debugger Recommendation "Waldek M." <wm@localhost.localdomain> - 2011-08-31 21:45 +0200
            [OT] Re: Debugger Recommendation Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-10 02:17 -0500
              Re: [OT] Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-10 10:00 +0200
                Re: [OT] Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-10 21:14 +1200
                  Re: [OT] Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-10 11:26 +0200
                    Re: [OT] Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-10 21:33 +1200
                Re: [OT] Re: Debugger Recommendation Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-10 06:32 -0500
              Re: Debugger Recommendation Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-10 06:59 -0700
                Re: Debugger Recommendation Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-10 09:39 -0500
        Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-08-29 22:51 +0200
          Re: Debugger Recommendation "Waldek M." <wm@localhost.localdomain> - 2011-08-31 21:11 +0200
            Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-08-31 22:17 +0200
              Re: Debugger Recommendation "Waldek M." <wm@localhost.localdomain> - 2011-09-01 07:26 +0200
          Re: Debugger Recommendation dan <dan.campbell+nospam@gmail.com> - 2011-09-09 21:30 -0500
      Re: Debugger Recommendation DeMarcus <use_my_alias_here@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-22 08:57 +0200
        Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-22 09:16 +0200
          Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-22 19:46 +1200
          Re: Debugger Recommendation DeMarcus <use_my_alias_here@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-22 11:15 +0200
    Re: Debugger Recommendation Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-29 22:02 -0700
      Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-08-30 11:09 +0200
        Re: Debugger Recommendation Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 05:26 -0700
          Re: Debugger Recommendation Oliver Jackson <chexmofo@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-30 08:25 -0700
            Re: Debugger Recommendation Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 10:34 -0700
    Re: Debugger Recommendation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-11 20:37 +0000
      Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-12 00:40 +0200
        Re: Debugger Recommendation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-12 21:58 +0000
          Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-13 00:52 +0200
            Re: Debugger Recommendation Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2011-09-13 06:40 +0000
              Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-15 10:26 +1200
                Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-15 00:57 +0200
                  Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-15 11:13 +1200
                  Re: Debugger Recommendation Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2011-09-14 18:16 -0500
                    Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-15 11:36 +1200
                  Re: Debugger Recommendation Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2011-09-15 06:35 +0000
                    Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-15 09:29 +0200
                      Re: Debugger Recommendation Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2011-09-15 07:46 +0000
                        Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-15 09:58 +0200
                          Re: Debugger Recommendation Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2011-09-15 09:57 +0000
                            Re: Debugger Recommendation Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-15 19:30 +0900
                              Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-15 14:28 +0200
            Re: Debugger Recommendation yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-13 13:29 +0000
              Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-14 08:42 +1200
              Re: Debugger Recommendation Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-15 10:37 +0100
                Re: Debugger Recommendation Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-15 19:36 +0900
                Re: Debugger Recommendation yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-19 09:42 +0000
                  Re: Debugger Recommendation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-19 10:59 +0000
            Re: Debugger Recommendation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-13 20:09 +0000
          Re: Debugger Recommendation Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-15 10:11 +0100
            Re: Debugger Recommendation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-16 21:29 +0000
      Re: Debugger Recommendation Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-15 10:08 +0100
        Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-15 21:23 +1200
          Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-15 11:38 +0200
            Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-15 21:41 +1200
          Re: Debugger Recommendation Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-15 10:43 +0100
        Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-15 11:34 +0200
          Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-15 21:54 +1200
          Re: Debugger Recommendation Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-15 11:44 +0100
            Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-15 18:56 +0200
              Re: Debugger Recommendation yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-19 09:53 +0000
                Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-19 22:34 +1200
                  Re: Debugger Recommendation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-19 11:13 +0000
                    Re: Debugger Recommendation yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-22 11:41 +0000
                      Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-23 07:45 +1200
          Re: Debugger Recommendation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-16 21:24 +0000
        Re: Debugger Recommendation Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-15 18:55 +0900
          Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-15 22:03 +1200
            Re: Debugger Recommendation Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-15 19:29 +0900
              Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-15 23:13 +1200
                Re: Debugger Recommendation Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-15 20:15 +0900
                  Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-15 23:22 +1200
          Re: Debugger Recommendation Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-15 11:52 +0100
            Re: Debugger Recommendation Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-15 20:13 +0900
            Re: Debugger Recommendation Marc <marc.glisse@gmail.com> - 2011-09-15 14:19 +0000

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#9574

On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 22:51:46 +0200, jacob navia wrote:
> Let me count the ways:
> 
> 1) No user interface that is conceived to help the user
>    debug its program. Obscure commands full of exceptions and
>    gotchas, and cryptic commands. For instance to get the registers
>    you write:
[CUT]

All your arguments are actually one argument: you hate it that
it has no built-in GUI. And I can accept it, sure. Just use one that has
one. And works. As simple as that.
Or use ddd/kdbg/whatever if you don't hate them as much.
Don't if you don't. Use some other. Write your own.
Maintain your own. You do? Oh, great. Share it with others,
if you like.

Only, please don't tell everyone around that the debugger
is of low quality because you don't like its interface.
Just write that for you its UI is crappy. Do we have a deal? ;-)

> This debugger hasn't improved anything in its user interface
> since 1980 more or less. But all people that love GNU love
> gdb and I will get flamed endlessly by them for telling that
> gdb has no clothes!

You're point being...? 
(a rethorical question, just in case)

Best regards,
Waldek

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#9576

Le 31/08/11 21:11, Waldek M. a écrit :
> On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 22:51:46 +0200, jacob navia wrote:
>> Let me count the ways:
>>
>> 1) No user interface that is conceived to help the user
>>     debug its program. Obscure commands full of exceptions and
>>     gotchas, and cryptic commands. For instance to get the registers
>>     you write:
> [CUT]
>

You CUT all arguments that prove why I think the interface is a pile
of Sh$t.

And I am speaking about the command line interface please, no GUI.


Because, as you (may) know, a command line INTERFACE is exactly
that, an interface that allows the human to control the software.

No Mouse, no windows. But INTERFACE anyway.

> All your arguments are actually one argument: you hate it that
> it has no built-in GUI.

No. It coud have a better command line interface, even if it
doesn't have any GUI.

> And I can accept it, sure. Just use one that has
> one. And works. As simple as that.
> Or use ddd/kdbg/whatever if you don't hate them as much.
> Don't if you don't. Use some other. Write your own.
> Maintain your own. You do? Oh, great. Share it with others,
> if you like.
>
> Only, please don't tell everyone around that the debugger
> is of low quality because you don't like its interface.
> Just write that for you its UI is crappy. Do we have a deal? ;-)
>

I wrfote just that with examples, and you ignored them.

Just CUT, of course, no discussion whatsoever.

>> This debugger hasn't improved anything in its user interface
>> since 1980 more or less. But all people that love GNU love
>> gdb and I will get flamed endlessly by them for telling that
>> gdb has no clothes!
>
> You're point being...?

That GNU has forgotten what *innovation* and *redesign* mean.

It is impossible to criticize anything GNU because of its
political goals: either you are FOR us, and then you should
swallow our pile of sh$t without any complaints, or you are
against us, then you are a micro$oft moron etc.

Look how you *avoided* any concrete discussion about the concrete
examples I underscored. Nothing, no concrete discussion
in your reply.

Why?

Because of the "political" goals of GNU.

GNU?

*G*nu is *N*ot *U*sable


  (a rethorical answer, just in case)
>
> Best regards,
> jacob

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#9580

On Wed, 31 Aug 2011 22:17:23 +0200, jacob navia wrote:

> Le 31/08/11 21:11, Waldek M. a écrit :
>> On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 22:51:46 +0200, jacob navia wrote:
>>> Let me count the ways:
>>>
>>> 1) No user interface that is conceived to help the user
>>>     debug its program. Obscure commands full of exceptions and
>>>     gotchas, and cryptic commands. For instance to get the registers
>>>     you write:
>> [CUT]
>>
> 
> You CUT all arguments that prove why I think the interface is a pile
> of Sh$t.

And what exactly is the point of repeating 4 different reasons for one
simple thing: you hate gdb UI? I really got the message :-)


>> All your arguments are actually one argument: you hate it that
>> it has no built-in GUI.
> 
> No. It coud have a better command line interface, even if it
> doesn't have any GUI.

All right then, I must have misunderstood then. You hate the gdb
UI, and you'd prefer that it has GUI.

[...]
> I wrfote just that with examples, and you ignored them.
> 
> Just CUT, of course, no discussion whatsoever.

That's because there's nothing to discuss with.
I accept it that those are the reasons why *you* hate gdb, while at the
same time, this reasons are either meaningless to me, or are actually an
advantage.

>> You're point being...?
> 
> That GNU has forgotten what *innovation* and *redesign* mean.

I might have agreed somewhat with you at that: see gmake development cycle,
and yes - that of gdb. One could argue whether that's because of innovation
or because of lack of support. But your generalization has proven you
wrong, so I say: Yeah, right.

Especially the Gnu Compiler Collection, which also
has been abandoned since 1990, right? ;)
And Gnome, which has never changed since its first release.
And all that GPL and LGPL software that Google can display and lots of
people use everyday: Audacity, Pidgin, Octave, Blender... no, they don't
exist, they must have been my dream.

Have a nice day :-)

Waldek

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#10008

On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 22:51:46 +0200, jacob navia wrote:

> 4) Not to speak about its completely outdated command line
>     interface, that forces you to write "list" again and again to see
>     where you are in the source code. If emacs (another gnu product) can
>     use termcaps and have a text mode "full screen" console why gdb
>     can't?
> 

C-x a or the "win" command will start the "tui" interface for gdb.  It 
might not be the best, but you at least don't have to keep running the 
list command.

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#10366

On 08/29/2011 07:19 PM, jacob navia wrote:
> Le 29/08/11 16:40, Joseph Hesse a écrit :
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have never used a debugger and would like to know which one(s) are the
>> best. I prefer one with a graphic interface.
>>
>> I use gnu c++ and Linux.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Joe
>
> Buy TotalView, it is the best. It comes vith a good GUI
>
> http://www.roguewave.com/products/totalview-family/totalview.aspx
>
> And avoid gdb... It is the worst

The problem we face with TotalView is that the binaries must contain the 
symbols on the target machine. This may be problematic on embedded 
systems where disk space is limited. GDB (GDB server) does not need the 
symbols on the target.

Another problem (for Eclipse users) is that TotalView's plugin for 
Eclipse seems outdated.


/Daniel

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#10369

Le 22/09/11 08:57, DeMarcus a écrit :
> On 08/29/2011 07:19 PM, jacob navia wrote:
>> Le 29/08/11 16:40, Joseph Hesse a écrit :
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I have never used a debugger and would like to know which one(s) are the
>>> best. I prefer one with a graphic interface.
>>>
>>> I use gnu c++ and Linux.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Joe
>>
>> Buy TotalView, it is the best. It comes vith a good GUI
>>
>> http://www.roguewave.com/products/totalview-family/totalview.aspx
>>
>> And avoid gdb... It is the worst
>
> The problem we face with TotalView is that the binaries must contain the
> symbols on the target machine. This may be problematic on embedded
> systems where disk space is limited. GDB (GDB server) does not need the
> symbols on the target.
>
> Another problem (for Eclipse users) is that TotalView's plugin for
> Eclipse seems outdated.
>
>
> /Daniel

Sure, no software is perfect. But for a beginner that has never used a
debugger (the original poster) it is surely WAAAAAAAY better than gdb, 
excuse me.

To problem (1), I wrote a debugger for an embedded system using the
serial interface. My debugger didn't need the symbols in the target
either, but the problem was that this implied that the stripped
target was REALLY just a stripped target from the one we had in the
PC... Reading the actual symbols from the program you are going to
debug eliminates that problem... at the cost of using more disk
space. Nowadays, my phone has 32 GB, so embedded systems with lack of
space should be rare.

To problem (2)
have you asked them for an upgrade?
What did they say?

jacob

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#10370

On 09/22/11 07:16 PM, jacob navia wrote:
>
> To problem (1), I wrote a debugger for an embedded system using the
> serial interface. My debugger didn't need the symbols in the target
> either, but the problem was that this implied that the stripped
> target was REALLY just a stripped target from the one we had in the
> PC... Reading the actual symbols from the program you are going to
> debug eliminates that problem... at the cost of using more disk
> space. Nowadays, my phone has 32 GB, so embedded systems with lack of
> space should be rare.

You jest?  I'm in the process of replacing a 48K (FLASH) MCU with a 
massive 256K one!

-- 
Ian Collins

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#10373

[...]

>> Another problem (for Eclipse users) is that TotalView's plugin for
>> Eclipse seems outdated.
>>

[...]

> have you asked them for an upgrade?
> What did they say?
>

I haven't. I looked at their home page without success, and since I find 
the GDB integration pretty neat in Eclipse, I stopped investigate 
TotalView. But I might actually send them an email.

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#9461

On Aug 29, 3:40 pm, Joseph Hesse <j...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have never used a debugger and would like to know which one(s) are the
> best.  I prefer one with a graphic interface.
>
> I use gnu c++ and Linux.
>
> Thank you,
> Joe

http://xkcd.com/272/

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#9465

Le 30/08/11 07:02, Paul a écrit :
> On Aug 29, 3:40 pm, Joseph Hesse<j...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have never used a debugger and would like to know which one(s) are the
>> best.  I prefer one with a graphic interface.
>>
>> I use gnu c++ and Linux.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Joe
>
> http://xkcd.com/272/

I did not understand that comic. Should I understand that:

o Linux users are a "show off" kind of people that like to use dangerous 
things?

o Non-linux users (that need antivurus software) are lame
   people thatare unable to do anything?

o Both?

o None?

And what I understand even less is what that has to do with a debugger
discussion?

Thanks for enlightening me.

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#9469

On Aug 30, 10:09 am, jacob navia <ja...@spamsink.net> wrote:
> Le 30/08/11 07:02, Paul a écrit :
>
> > On Aug 29, 3:40 pm, Joseph Hesse<j...@gmail.com>  wrote:
> >> Hi,
>
> >> I have never used a debugger and would like to know which one(s) are the
> >> best.  I prefer one with a graphic interface.
>
> >> I use gnu c++ and Linux.
>
> >> Thank you,
> >> Joe
>
> >http://xkcd.com/272/
>
> I did not understand that comic. Should I understand that:
>
> o Linux users are a "show off" kind of people that like to use dangerous
> things?
>
> o Non-linux users (that need antivurus software) are lame
>    people thatare unable to do anything?
>
> o Both?
>
> o None?

The comic strip can be interpreted any way you want to interpret it. I
thought it was quite funny because of the way the author portrayed the
linux user v's non linux user, if that is the case or just how I
interpreted it ( maybe the salesman is also a linux user.
>
> And what I understand even less is what that has to do with a debugger
> discussion?
>
It has nothing to do with the debugger , it is only related to the
post becuase of Linux.

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#9494

On Aug 30, 5:26 am, Paul <pchris...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Aug 30, 10:09 am, jacob navia <ja...@spamsink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Le 30/08/11 07:02, Paul a écrit :
>
> > > On Aug 29, 3:40 pm, Joseph Hesse<j...@gmail.com>  wrote:
> > >> Hi,
>
> > >> I have never used a debugger and would like to know which one(s) are the
> > >> best.  I prefer one with a graphic interface.
>
> > >> I use gnu c++ and Linux.
>
> > >> Thank you,
> > >> Joe
>
> > >http://xkcd.com/272/
>
> > I did not understand that comic. Should I understand that:
>
> > o Linux users are a "show off" kind of people that like to use dangerous
> > things?
>
> > o Non-linux users (that need antivurus software) are lame
> >    people thatare unable to do anything?
>
> > o Both?
>
> > o None?
>
> The comic strip can be interpreted any way you want to interpret it. I
> thought it was quite funny because of the way the author portrayed the
> linux user v's non linux user, if that is the case or just how I
> interpreted it ( maybe the salesman is also a linux user.

In other words you don't get it either.

Posting a link to a comic that you don't get, without any accompanying
commentary, falls under the category of a non-contribution.  Yet
another post you should not have made.

>
> > And what I understand even less is what that has to do with a debugger
> > discussion?
>
> It has nothing to do with the debugger , it is only related to the
> post becuase of Linux.

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#9499

On Aug 30, 4:25 pm, Oliver Jackson <chexm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 30, 5:26 am, Paul <pchris...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 30, 10:09 am, jacob navia <ja...@spamsink.net> wrote:
>
> > > Le 30/08/11 07:02, Paul a écrit :
>
> > > > On Aug 29, 3:40 pm, Joseph Hesse<j...@gmail.com>  wrote:
> > > >> Hi,
>
> > > >> I have never used a debugger and would like to know which one(s) are the
> > > >> best.  I prefer one with a graphic interface.
>
> > > >> I use gnu c++ and Linux.
>
> > > >> Thank you,
> > > >> Joe
>
> > > >http://xkcd.com/272/
>
> > > I did not understand that comic. Should I understand that:
>
> > > o Linux users are a "show off" kind of people that like to use dangerous
> > > things?
>
> > > o Non-linux users (that need antivurus software) are lame
> > >    people thatare unable to do anything?
>
> > > o Both?
>
> > > o None?
>
> > The comic strip can be interpreted any way you want to interpret it. I
> > thought it was quite funny because of the way the author portrayed the
> > linux user v's non linux user, if that is the case or just how I
> > interpreted it ( maybe the salesman is also a linux user.
>
> In other words you don't get it either.
>
Not at all.

I get it, do you?

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#10049

On Mon, 2011-08-29, Joseph Hesse wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have never used a debugger and would like to know which one(s) are the 
> best.  I prefer one with a graphic interface.
>
> I use gnu c++ and Linux.

You might want to know that many C++ users rarely or never use a
traditional debugger[1]. I'm one of them -- I used gdb for a while last
Friday, but the time before that was many years ago.

On Unix, you need to be able to debug core dumps but when dealing with
*running* programs it's more important to know tools like 
- the compiler
- valgrind
- strace and ltrace,
and knowing how to write unit tests. All of that is IMHO more
important than live debugging.

/Jorgen

[1] Not trying to start the debugger-versus-no-debugger war again. Just
    stating a fact.  And no, I don't have any idea how many "many" is.

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

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#10051

Le 11/09/11 22:37, Jorgen Grahn a écrit :
> On Mon, 2011-08-29, Joseph Hesse wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have never used a debugger and would like to know which one(s) are the
>> best.  I prefer one with a graphic interface.
>>
>> I use gnu c++ and Linux.
>
> You might want to know that many C++ users rarely or never use a
> traditional debugger[1]. I'm one of them -- I used gdb for a while last
> Friday, but the time before that was many years ago.
>

WOW Batman!!!

You are just GREAT Batman.

I have always looked in awe when you passed dressed in black,
going to fight the forces of the evil bugs, without a debugger,
just with your resolve and heroic lack of fear.

Thanks for saving us Batman!

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#10058

On Sun, 2011-09-11, jacob navia wrote:
> Le 11/09/11 22:37, Jorgen Grahn a écrit :
>> On Mon, 2011-08-29, Joseph Hesse wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I have never used a debugger and would like to know which one(s) are the
>>> best.  I prefer one with a graphic interface.
>>>
>>> I use gnu c++ and Linux.
>>
>> You might want to know that many C++ users rarely or never use a
>> traditional debugger[1]. I'm one of them -- I used gdb for a while last
>> Friday, but the time before that was many years ago.
>>
>
> WOW Batman!!!
>
> You are just GREAT Batman.
>
> I have always looked in awe when you passed dressed in black,
> going to fight the forces of the evil bugs, without a debugger,
> just with your resolve and heroic lack of fear.
>
> Thanks for saving us Batman!

Do you have a point of some kind?  Let me also repeat the part you
neglected to quote:

[1] Not trying to start the debugger-versus-no-debugger war again. Just
    stating a fact.  And no, I don't have any idea how many "many" is.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

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#10059

Le 12/09/11 23:58, Jorgen Grahn a écrit :
> On Sun, 2011-09-11, jacob navia wrote:
>> Le 11/09/11 22:37, Jorgen Grahn a écrit :
>>> On Mon, 2011-08-29, Joseph Hesse wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I have never used a debugger and would like to know which one(s) are the
>>>> best.  I prefer one with a graphic interface.
>>>>
>>>> I use gnu c++ and Linux.
>>>
>>> You might want to know that many C++ users rarely or never use a
>>> traditional debugger[1]. I'm one of them -- I used gdb for a while last
>>> Friday, but the time before that was many years ago.
>>>
>>
>> WOW Batman!!!
>>
>> You are just GREAT Batman.
>>
>> I have always looked in awe when you passed dressed in black,
>> going to fight the forces of the evil bugs, without a debugger,
>> just with your resolve and heroic lack of fear.
>>
>> Thanks for saving us Batman!
>
> Do you have a point of some kind?  Let me also repeat the part you
> neglected to quote:
>
> [1] Not trying to start the debugger-versus-no-debugger war again. Just
>      stating a fact.  And no, I don't have any idea how many "many" is.
>
Look Jorgen, I can't really stand people that tell:

 > On Unix, you need to be able to debug core dumps but when dealing with
 > *running* programs it's more important to know tools like
 > - the compiler
 > - valgrind
 > - strace and ltrace,
 > and knowing how to write unit tests. All of that is IMHO more
 > important than live debugging.

Implicitly you say that people that use a debugger are kind of
slightly moronic, being unable to use
- the compiler
- valgrind
- strace and ltrace
and (of course) they do not know how to write unit tests.

THAT is what bothers me, that condescending tone (On Unix... etc)
as windows wouldn't have compilers, tools even better than valgrind,
and windows programmers do not know what unit tests are.

Anyway, as you yourself said, you used a debugger last Friday so
it can't be kind of useless even for great programmers like you
isn't it?

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#10067

jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> wrote:
> tools even better than valgrind,

  Are there any free ones? Because last time I chekced, there weren't
(as incredible as that might sound).

  (Granted, this was quite some years ago. The situation might have changed
since then.)

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#10112

On 09/13/11 06:40 PM, Juha Nieminen wrote:
> jacob navia<jacob@spamsink.net>  wrote:
>> tools even better than valgrind,
>
>    Are there any free ones? Because last time I chekced, there weren't
> (as incredible as that might sound).

Are you (Jacob) going to answer this?

-- 
Ian Collins

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#10113

Le 15/09/11 00:26, Ian Collins a écrit :
> On 09/13/11 06:40 PM, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>> jacob navia<jacob@spamsink.net> wrote:
>>> tools even better than valgrind,
>>
>> Are there any free ones? Because last time I chekced, there weren't
>> (as incredible as that might sound).
>
> Are you (Jacob) going to answer this?
>

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd744766(v=vs.85).aspx

The following Microsoft tools provide more-detailed information and can 
help to detect and diagnose leaks for the various allocation types in 
your application:

Performance Monitor and Resource Monitor are part of Windows 7 and can 
monitor and graph resource use over time
The latest version of Application Verifier can diagnose heap leaks on 
Windows 7
UMDH, which is part of the Debugging Tools for Windows, analyzes the 
heap memory allocations for a given process and can help find leaks and 
other unusual usage patterns
Xperf is a sophisticated performance analysis tool with support for heap 
allocation traces
CRT Debug Heap tracks heap allocations and can help build your own heap 
debugging features


http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Going+Deep/RADAR-Windows-Automatic-Memory-Leak-Detection

I didn't look the video but it looks promising.

Another memory leak tool:
http://winleak.sourceforge.net/

All of those are free. Of course you can BUY maybe better tools,
something you can't do under linux.

:-)

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