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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #121585 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-02-11 23:22 +0000 |
| Last post | 2025-02-14 16:00 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 63 — 11 participants |
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Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2025-02-11 23:22 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-02-11 15:46 -0800
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-02-12 08:12 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-02-12 10:53 +0100
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-02-12 10:06 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Phillip <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> - 2025-02-12 11:34 -0500
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-02-12 10:55 +0100
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-02-12 02:47 -0800
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Phillip <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> - 2025-02-12 11:36 -0500
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-02-12 16:51 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2025-02-12 21:58 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-02-12 15:00 -0800
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-02-12 12:26 -0500
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Phillip <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> - 2025-02-13 00:00 -0500
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-02-13 06:46 -0500
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-02-12 13:58 -0800
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2025-02-12 22:00 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-02-12 15:05 -0800
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-02-13 17:34 -0500
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-02-14 09:48 +0100
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2025-02-14 13:25 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-02-15 10:15 +0100
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2025-02-15 14:37 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-02-15 15:50 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2025-02-15 15:53 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2025-02-15 16:33 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2025-02-15 16:35 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2025-02-15 17:00 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-02-15 17:47 +0100
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2025-02-15 16:52 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2025-02-15 17:02 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2025-02-15 17:04 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-02-15 14:44 -0800
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2025-02-15 22:59 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-02-16 09:23 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-02-16 14:13 +0100
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2025-02-16 13:18 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-02-16 17:01 +0200
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-02-16 16:17 +0100
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2025-02-16 16:44 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-02-16 16:09 +0100
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2025-02-16 16:47 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-02-17 08:11 +0100
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2025-02-16 16:41 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 15:23 -0800
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-02-17 09:02 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-02-16 11:30 -0500
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-02-15 23:49 -0500
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Phillip <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> - 2025-02-15 11:54 -0500
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2025-02-15 17:00 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Phillip <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> - 2025-02-15 12:20 -0500
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2025-02-15 17:24 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-02-16 09:19 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2025-02-15 17:04 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2025-02-15 17:16 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-02-16 14:31 +0100
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2025-02-16 16:44 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-02-14 13:40 -0500
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-02-14 21:23 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-02-15 10:09 +0100
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-02-16 05:47 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-02-14 15:14 +0000
Re: Universal Compiler (neos) - Turing Completeness Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-02-14 16:00 +0000
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-16 16:09 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <vosv41$l2q5$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121644 |
On 16/02/2025 14:18, Mr Flibble wrote: > On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 14:13:03 +0100, David Brown > <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: > >> >> And for the record, I grew up with British schooling. >> >> > > And interestingly you haven't killfiled Muttley: that says a lot about > us Brits not being snowflakes. > I prefer to make judgements on posts rather than posters - I don't killfile many people. Some people have a mixture with some topical and interesting posts, and some that I'd rather not bother with. Thus I see, but choose to ignore, many of Muttley's posts (and a fair number of yours). But that's just my preference - other people do things differently. (And for a few people, their preference is to killfile me or ignore my posts. I'd rather they didn't, but it's their choice. ) I don't think it says anything about "us Brits", or anyone else. People make their choices for all sorts of reasons, and we are all individuals. You can make certain kinds of statistical generalisations based on country of origin, but not individual judgements.
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| From | Muttley@dastardlyhq.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-16 16:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vot4r1$m4bb$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121647 |
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:09:53 +0100 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> gabbled: >I don't think it says anything about "us Brits", or anyone else. People IME brits and aussies (maybe kiwis, don't know), seem to be a lot more tolerant of rouch language than the americans who are somewhat prudish about it. Its a cultural thing. Yet a lot of the same americans who might get angry over bad language wouldn't think twice about packing a 9mm when they go out.
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-17 08:11 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <vounfc$11rdc$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121653 |
On 16/02/2025 17:47, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote: > On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:09:53 +0100 > David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> gabbled: >> I don't think it says anything about "us Brits", or anyone else. People > > IME brits and aussies (maybe kiwis, don't know), seem to be a lot more > tolerant of rouch language than the americans who are somewhat prudish > about > it. Its a cultural thing. Yet a lot of the same americans who might get > angry > over bad language wouldn't think twice about packing a 9mm when they go > out. > > There are cultural differences, certainly - and that can give you statistics or general patterns. (Note however that the USA is a big place, and these patterns will differ wildly across the country.) But they tell you nothing about individuals. Don't pre-judge people based on where they come from.
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| From | Muttley@dastardlyhq.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-16 16:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vot4fs$m24e$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121643 |
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 14:13:03 +0100 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> gabbled: >On 16/02/2025 10:23, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote: >> Far too many delicate sensibilities in this group. God knows how they'd have >> coped in a british school growing up. The rate they're killfilling people >> there'll just be a circle jerk of about 3 of them soon, not really saying >much >> to each other. >> > >Are you really trying to argue that because kids were nasty to each >other in school, it's fine for people to be rude or nasty to each other >here? Seriously? I'm saying grow a thicker skin. If this was really a "community" (it isn't but lets humour the mushrooms for a moment) then they'd have to put up with swearing as many people do it all the time IRL. >Think of this group as professional colleagues - not as your drunken >mates at the pub. Ah well, thats not a community is it. >You get to choose how you post, and what you say. You don't get to >choose who will listen, or how they will react. Similarly if people don't like the tone of a post they can just ignore it. If someone is swearing in a pub you don't walk over to them and tell them you don't like it.
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| From | Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-16 15:23 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <87pljh5vag.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> |
| In reply to | #121643 |
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
[...]
> Are you really trying to argue that because kids were nasty to each
> other in school, it's fine for people to be rude or nasty to each
> other here? Seriously?
[...]
Please don't waste time and bandwidth arguing with trolls and giving
them the attention they crave. Or do you think you can use logical
arguments to persuade them to give up their trolling ways?
"Let them eat static" -- Khan Noonien Singh
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */
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| From | Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-17 09:02 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <voutu9$12ueq$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121655 |
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 15:23:03 -0800 Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wibbled: >David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes: >[...] >> Are you really trying to argue that because kids were nasty to each >> other in school, it's fine for people to be rude or nasty to each >> other here? Seriously? >[...] > >Please don't waste time and bandwidth arguing with trolls and giving >them the attention they crave. Or do you think you can use logical >arguments to persuade them to give up their trolling ways? > >"Let them eat static" -- Khan Noonien Singh Star trek. Hmm. "Sagga fragga ragga grarr grarr Keith Thompson" - Muttley, Wacky Races.
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| From | James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-16 11:30 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <vot3rc$lqfg$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121641 |
On 16/02/2025 10:23, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote: ... > Far too many delicate sensibilities in this group. God knows how they'd have > coped in a british school growing up. The rate they're killfilling people > there'll just be a circle jerk of about 3 of them soon, not really saying much > to each other. My news server's archives go back three months. During that time 35 different people who aren't in my killfile posted 351 messages on 38 different topics.
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| From | James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-15 23:49 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <vorqp9$emcm$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121631 |
On 2/15/25 17:44, Keith Thompson wrote: ... > I see that I had already killfiled you in this newsgroup, but you're > posting under a different email address now. Thanks for pointing that out. I had him killfiled by his old e-mail address too.
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| From | Phillip <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-15 11:54 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <voqgsb$3sn0$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121617 |
On 2/15/25 11:47 AM, David Brown wrote: > On 15/02/2025 15:37, Mr Flibble wrote: >> On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:15:16 +0100, David Brown >> <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: >> >>> On 14/02/2025 14:25, Mr Flibble wrote: >>>> On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 09:48:56 +0100, David Brown >>>> <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 13/02/2025 23:34, James Kuyper wrote: >>>>>> On 2/12/25 17:00, Mr Flibble wrote: >>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 15:46:52 -0800, Keith Thompson >>>>>>> <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> writes: >>>>>>>>> I hope to achieve neos Turing Completeness in March during a >>>>>>>>> two week >>>>>>>>> holiday. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, did you know that with neos you can mix code from different >>>>>>>>> programming languages in the same source code file! >>>>>> ... >>> >>> <snip> >>> >>>>> I'm not suggesting that I think any of this mixture is a good idea, >>>>> but >>>>> I don't think making language-change markers is the biggest issue. >>>> >>>> Not yet implemented but see the "Mixing Programming Languages" section >>>> of the neos homepage for current plan of language markers: >>>> >>>> https://neos.dev/ >>>> >>> >>> Did you pick those markers before or after reading my post? (If you >>> were inspired by my post, that's great - just because I am having >>> trouble seeing the point of some of your proposed features, does not >>> mean I don't wish you the best with the project.) >> >> Oh the hubris. Of course I didn't fucking pick those markers because >> of your post. I picked those markers in 2019. >> > > It would be hubris if I had claimed that you /had/ copied my idea. I > just asked a question, based on the order of events that I saw : > > 1. You claimed to have a way of mixing code. > 2. Multiple posts asked you for details, and to say how you handled this. > 3. You gave no answer to that. > 4. I suggested a way to handle it. > 5. You posted with a link showing that you did it in the way I suggested. > > I am perfectly aware that this way of marking code is pretty obvious, > and I expect it would be the most common approach people thought about. > But you might well have had other ideas in mind. That's why I /asked/. > There's no need to get rude about it. > Yeah, I was about to make a reply to his rudeness towards you. I can understand the back and forth with Muttley, considering Muttley pushes people at times and has rubbed people the wrong way in the past. But you are not that way. I was willing to give Mr Flibble some latitude over talking to Muttley, but after he said that to you, I'm out. Flibble lost all respect from me at this point. David, you are an outstanding member of this community and a true asset here. You shouldn't be treated that way by anyone. Almost everyone knows who you are here. Mr Flibble would be right to give you an apology. I suspect he has lost 1/3 of this community by treating you like this. -- Phillip ---------- - Adam: Is a void really a void if it returns? - Jack: No, it's just nullspace at that point. ----------
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| From | Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-15 17:00 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <hvh1rjtde4jpela02gbkfrfjvh8geg28a1@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #121619 |
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 11:54:35 -0500, Phillip <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> wrote: >On 2/15/25 11:47 AM, David Brown wrote: >> On 15/02/2025 15:37, Mr Flibble wrote: >>> On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:15:16 +0100, David Brown >>> <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: >>> >>>> On 14/02/2025 14:25, Mr Flibble wrote: >>>>> On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 09:48:56 +0100, David Brown >>>>> <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 13/02/2025 23:34, James Kuyper wrote: >>>>>>> On 2/12/25 17:00, Mr Flibble wrote: >>>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 15:46:52 -0800, Keith Thompson >>>>>>>> <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> writes: >>>>>>>>>> I hope to achieve neos Turing Completeness in March during a >>>>>>>>>> two week >>>>>>>>>> holiday. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Also, did you know that with neos you can mix code from different >>>>>>>>>> programming languages in the same source code file! >>>>>>> ... >>>> >>>> <snip> >>>> >>>>>> I'm not suggesting that I think any of this mixture is a good idea, >>>>>> but >>>>>> I don't think making language-change markers is the biggest issue. >>>>> >>>>> Not yet implemented but see the "Mixing Programming Languages" section >>>>> of the neos homepage for current plan of language markers: >>>>> >>>>> https://neos.dev/ >>>>> >>>> >>>> Did you pick those markers before or after reading my post? (If you >>>> were inspired by my post, that's great - just because I am having >>>> trouble seeing the point of some of your proposed features, does not >>>> mean I don't wish you the best with the project.) >>> >>> Oh the hubris. Of course I didn't fucking pick those markers because >>> of your post. I picked those markers in 2019. >>> >> >> It would be hubris if I had claimed that you /had/ copied my idea. I >> just asked a question, based on the order of events that I saw : >> >> 1. You claimed to have a way of mixing code. >> 2. Multiple posts asked you for details, and to say how you handled this. >> 3. You gave no answer to that. >> 4. I suggested a way to handle it. >> 5. You posted with a link showing that you did it in the way I suggested. >> >> I am perfectly aware that this way of marking code is pretty obvious, >> and I expect it would be the most common approach people thought about. >> But you might well have had other ideas in mind. That's why I /asked/. >> There's no need to get rude about it. >> > >Yeah, I was about to make a reply to his rudeness towards you. I can >understand the back and forth with Muttley, considering Muttley pushes >people at times and has rubbed people the wrong way in the past. But you >are not that way. I was willing to give Mr Flibble some latitude over >talking to Muttley, but after he said that to you, I'm out. Flibble lost >all respect from me at this point. David, you are an outstanding member >of this community and a true asset here. You shouldn't be treated that >way by anyone. Almost everyone knows who you are here. > >Mr Flibble would be right to give you an apology. I suspect he has lost >1/3 of this community by treating you like this. Self appointed "community" gatekeepers who like to tone police are the worst. Man the fuck up, dear. /Flibble
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| From | Phillip <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-15 12:20 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <voqic8$3sn0$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121621 |
On 2/15/25 12:00 PM, Mr Flibble wrote: > On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 11:54:35 -0500, Phillip <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> > wrote: > >> On 2/15/25 11:47 AM, David Brown wrote: >>> On 15/02/2025 15:37, Mr Flibble wrote: >>>> On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:15:16 +0100, David Brown >>>> <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 14/02/2025 14:25, Mr Flibble wrote: >>>>>> On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 09:48:56 +0100, David Brown >>>>>> <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 13/02/2025 23:34, James Kuyper wrote: >>>>>>>> On 2/12/25 17:00, Mr Flibble wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 15:46:52 -0800, Keith Thompson >>>>>>>>> <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> writes: >>>>>>>>>>> I hope to achieve neos Turing Completeness in March during a >>>>>>>>>>> two week >>>>>>>>>>> holiday. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Also, did you know that with neos you can mix code from different >>>>>>>>>>> programming languages in the same source code file! >>>>>>>> ... >>>>> >>>>> <snip> >>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not suggesting that I think any of this mixture is a good idea, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> I don't think making language-change markers is the biggest issue. >>>>>> >>>>>> Not yet implemented but see the "Mixing Programming Languages" section >>>>>> of the neos homepage for current plan of language markers: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://neos.dev/ >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Did you pick those markers before or after reading my post? (If you >>>>> were inspired by my post, that's great - just because I am having >>>>> trouble seeing the point of some of your proposed features, does not >>>>> mean I don't wish you the best with the project.) >>>> >>>> Oh the hubris. Of course I didn't fucking pick those markers because >>>> of your post. I picked those markers in 2019. >>>> >>> >>> It would be hubris if I had claimed that you /had/ copied my idea. I >>> just asked a question, based on the order of events that I saw : >>> >>> 1. You claimed to have a way of mixing code. >>> 2. Multiple posts asked you for details, and to say how you handled this. >>> 3. You gave no answer to that. >>> 4. I suggested a way to handle it. >>> 5. You posted with a link showing that you did it in the way I suggested. >>> >>> I am perfectly aware that this way of marking code is pretty obvious, >>> and I expect it would be the most common approach people thought about. >>> But you might well have had other ideas in mind. That's why I /asked/. >>> There's no need to get rude about it. >>> >> >> Yeah, I was about to make a reply to his rudeness towards you. I can >> understand the back and forth with Muttley, considering Muttley pushes >> people at times and has rubbed people the wrong way in the past. But you >> are not that way. I was willing to give Mr Flibble some latitude over >> talking to Muttley, but after he said that to you, I'm out. Flibble lost >> all respect from me at this point. David, you are an outstanding member >> of this community and a true asset here. You shouldn't be treated that >> way by anyone. Almost everyone knows who you are here. >> >> Mr Flibble would be right to give you an apology. I suspect he has lost >> 1/3 of this community by treating you like this. > > Self appointed "community" gatekeepers who like to tone police are the > worst. Man the fuck up, dear. > > /Flibble Actually I was about to sponsor you. After looking at what you have and what your trying to do, I've been interested. Yesterday I asked my lawyer to start drawing up a proposal to sponsor for you for 3 years so you could work on this project full time. I get the situation with Muttley as already stated, but when you treat others like David this way, when he's done nothing against you, it stops people like me from wanting to provide financial grants. So that's why I'm out. I wish you the best of luck, but you need to learn to treat people better if you ever want to get sponsorships or financial grants because people like me have long memories and we look at your past history to determine the kind of person you are, so we know who we are dealing with. That matters. So, best of luck to you. Keep up your work and try to have fun in the process. -- Phillip ---------- - Adam: Is a void really a void if it returns? - Jack: No, it's just nullspace at that point. ----------
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| From | Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-15 17:24 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <4cj1rj1508of0e4f48eqsie1itbd7j9usi@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #121627 |
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:20:08 -0500, Phillip <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> wrote: >On 2/15/25 12:00 PM, Mr Flibble wrote: >> On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 11:54:35 -0500, Phillip <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> >> wrote: >> >>> On 2/15/25 11:47 AM, David Brown wrote: >>>> On 15/02/2025 15:37, Mr Flibble wrote: >>>>> On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:15:16 +0100, David Brown >>>>> <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 14/02/2025 14:25, Mr Flibble wrote: >>>>>>> On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 09:48:56 +0100, David Brown >>>>>>> <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 13/02/2025 23:34, James Kuyper wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 2/12/25 17:00, Mr Flibble wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 15:46:52 -0800, Keith Thompson >>>>>>>>>> <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> writes: >>>>>>>>>>>> I hope to achieve neos Turing Completeness in March during a >>>>>>>>>>>> two week >>>>>>>>>>>> holiday. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Also, did you know that with neos you can mix code from different >>>>>>>>>>>> programming languages in the same source code file! >>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>> >>>>>> <snip> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm not suggesting that I think any of this mixture is a good idea, >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> I don't think making language-change markers is the biggest issue. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Not yet implemented but see the "Mixing Programming Languages" section >>>>>>> of the neos homepage for current plan of language markers: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://neos.dev/ >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Did you pick those markers before or after reading my post? (If you >>>>>> were inspired by my post, that's great - just because I am having >>>>>> trouble seeing the point of some of your proposed features, does not >>>>>> mean I don't wish you the best with the project.) >>>>> >>>>> Oh the hubris. Of course I didn't fucking pick those markers because >>>>> of your post. I picked those markers in 2019. >>>>> >>>> >>>> It would be hubris if I had claimed that you /had/ copied my idea. I >>>> just asked a question, based on the order of events that I saw : >>>> >>>> 1. You claimed to have a way of mixing code. >>>> 2. Multiple posts asked you for details, and to say how you handled this. >>>> 3. You gave no answer to that. >>>> 4. I suggested a way to handle it. >>>> 5. You posted with a link showing that you did it in the way I suggested. >>>> >>>> I am perfectly aware that this way of marking code is pretty obvious, >>>> and I expect it would be the most common approach people thought about. >>>> But you might well have had other ideas in mind. That's why I /asked/. >>>> There's no need to get rude about it. >>>> >>> >>> Yeah, I was about to make a reply to his rudeness towards you. I can >>> understand the back and forth with Muttley, considering Muttley pushes >>> people at times and has rubbed people the wrong way in the past. But you >>> are not that way. I was willing to give Mr Flibble some latitude over >>> talking to Muttley, but after he said that to you, I'm out. Flibble lost >>> all respect from me at this point. David, you are an outstanding member >>> of this community and a true asset here. You shouldn't be treated that >>> way by anyone. Almost everyone knows who you are here. >>> >>> Mr Flibble would be right to give you an apology. I suspect he has lost >>> 1/3 of this community by treating you like this. >> >> Self appointed "community" gatekeepers who like to tone police are the >> worst. Man the fuck up, dear. >> >> /Flibble > >Actually I was about to sponsor you. After looking at what you have and >what your trying to do, I've been interested. Yesterday I asked my >lawyer to start drawing up a proposal to sponsor for you for 3 years so >you could work on this project full time. Bullshit. > >I get the situation with Muttley as already stated, but when you treat >others like David this way, when he's done nothing against you, it stops >people like me from wanting to provide financial grants. So that's why >I'm out. I wish you the best of luck, but you need to learn to treat >people better if you ever want to get sponsorships or financial grants >because people like me have long memories and we look at your past >history to determine the kind of person you are, so we know who we are >dealing with. That matters. So, best of luck to you. Keep up your work >and try to have fun in the process. Man the fuck up, dear. /Flibble
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| From | Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-16 09:19 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vosaif$h953$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121628 |
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 17:24:01 +0000 Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> wibbled: >On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:20:08 -0500, Phillip <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> >wrote: >>Actually I was about to sponsor you. After looking at what you have and >>what your trying to do, I've been interested. Yesterday I asked my >>lawyer to start drawing up a proposal to sponsor for you for 3 years so >>you could work on this project full time. > >Bullshit. Yeah, doesn't really pass the sniff test does it. "I was going to give you lots of money for your project but because you said sweary words now I'm not". Uh huh. Presumably he doesn't contribute to linux in any way because Linus swears like trooper.
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| From | Muttley@dastardlyhq.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-15 17:04 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <voqhea$473o$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121619 |
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 11:54:35 -0500 Phillip <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> gabbled: >Yeah, I was about to make a reply to his rudeness towards you. I can >understand the back and forth with Muttley, considering Muttley pushes >people at times and has rubbed people the wrong way in the past. But you >are not that way. I was willing to give Mr Flibble some latitude over >talking to Muttley, but after he said that to you, I'm out. Flibble lost >all respect from me at this point. David, you are an outstanding member >of this community and a true asset here. You shouldn't be treated that >way by anyone. Almost everyone knows who you are here. Are you his dad or something? >Mr Flibble would be right to give you an apology. I suspect he has lost >1/3 of this community by treating you like this. What community? Its a bunch of random people posting to a newsgroup.
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| From | Mr Flibble <leigh@i42.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-15 17:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <usi1rjhpe2nop97rth97dee8s5rgvu2f1s@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #121624 |
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 17:04:10 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote: >On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 11:54:35 -0500 >Phillip <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> gabbled: >>Yeah, I was about to make a reply to his rudeness towards you. I can >>understand the back and forth with Muttley, considering Muttley pushes >>people at times and has rubbed people the wrong way in the past. But you >>are not that way. I was willing to give Mr Flibble some latitude over >>talking to Muttley, but after he said that to you, I'm out. Flibble lost >>all respect from me at this point. David, you are an outstanding member >>of this community and a true asset here. You shouldn't be treated that >>way by anyone. Almost everyone knows who you are here. > >Are you his dad or something? There is certianly some kind of woke desire to tone police going on here. > >>Mr Flibble would be right to give you an apology. I suspect he has lost >>1/3 of this community by treating you like this. > >What community? Its a bunch of random people posting to a newsgroup. Indeed. /Flibble
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-16 14:31 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <vospbq$jje1$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121624 |
On 15/02/2025 18:04, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote: > On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 11:54:35 -0500 > Phillip <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> gabbled: >> Yeah, I was about to make a reply to his rudeness towards you. I can >> understand the back and forth with Muttley, considering Muttley pushes >> people at times and has rubbed people the wrong way in the past. But >> you are not that way. I was willing to give Mr Flibble some latitude >> over talking to Muttley, but after he said that to you, I'm out. >> Flibble lost all respect from me at this point. David, you are an >> outstanding member of this community and a true asset here. You >> shouldn't be treated that way by anyone. Almost everyone knows who you >> are here. > > Are you his dad or something? I have no connection with Phillip other than being in the same newsgroup here. > >> Mr Flibble would be right to give you an apology. I suspect he has >> lost 1/3 of this community by treating you like this. > > What community? Its a bunch of random people posting to a newsgroup. > Usenet groups like comp.lang.c++ /are/ communities. There is a core of regulars, along with a fair number of lurkers and occasional posters that join in for threads that particularly interest them. Apparently you two (Muttley and Mr. Flibble) don't understand that. You have both completely failed to read the room and join the community and act like the rest of us, with the result that a fair proportion of people here ignore you (by killfiles or just ignoring much of what you write). None of this is about being "overly sensitive" or anything of that sort. It is about what we, the comp.lang.c++ community, want in this discussion group. If I want to fight, or throw insults back and forth, I could go over to, say, sci.electronics.design. There are plenty of Usenet groups, and countless other discussion forums, where there is just a bunch of people yelling at each other. Maybe this community is too tame for your liking - we prefer calm, civilised and topical threads, where experts help out others and can enjoy a bit of detailed language-lawyer discussions. That's not to everyone's taste, but it is how we do things here. If you don't like this community, I'm sure you can find an alternative one that suits you better.
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| From | Muttley@dastardlyhq.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-16 16:44 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vot4ki$m2td$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121645 |
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 14:31:38 +0100 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> gabbled: >On 15/02/2025 18:04, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote: >> What community? Its a bunch of random people posting to a newsgroup. >> > >Usenet groups like comp.lang.c++ /are/ communities. There is a core of No they're not. A community is people who exist in the same physical space and see each other IRL. Online discussions are only called communities to make the agrophobics and aspies feel happy about not meeting people face to face. >Apparently you two (Muttley and Mr. Flibble) don't understand that. You >have both completely failed to read the room and join the community and >act like the rest of us, with the result that a fair proportion of >people here ignore you (by killfiles or just ignoring much of what you >write). I swear at Flibble, he swears back. Whats the problem? Skip the posts if they offend. >If you don't like this community, I'm sure you can find an alternative >one that suits you better. Its not a sodding community! Its a bunch of posts on a server!
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| From | James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-14 13:40 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <voo2ne$3j3e9$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121604 |
On 2/14/25 03:48, David Brown wrote: > On 13/02/2025 23:34, James Kuyper wrote: ... >> How would that work? If you use a fixed marker, it would have to be >> something that wasn't a valid piece of program text in any of the >> supported languages. But if yours is to be a universal compiler, that >> becomes an impossible decision - every possible marker is valid program >> text in as least one of the supported languages. >> The obvious solution is to use different markers for different languages >> - but that would still run afoul of any language that didn't have any >> invalid program texts. ... > If it were me that was designing this concept, I'd pick some syntax that > would be very unlikely to come up in real code - even if it might be > valid syntax in one or more languages. > > For example, decide that the sequence "#¤§" at the start of a line is a > "neos meta-escape". How likely is it that those characters might form > part of a normal valid line in some programming language? It's rather > unlikely. The same goes for something longer but less cryptic, such as > "##NEOS##". That appears to be what he's done. He's chosen "⚛c⚛", for instance, as the marker for the start of a C section. In case they don't display properly for you, or you don't recognize them, the characters before and after the 'c'are 'ATOM SYMBOL', (U+269B). ... > I'm not suggesting that I think any of this mixture is a good idea, but > I don't think making language-change markers is the biggest issue. I wouldn't dream of trying to create a "Universal Compiler". However, what little value I see in the concept lies in making it truly universal. I don't see much value in supporting different languages in the same file. Putting different languages in different files makes it trivial, without imposing restrictions on which languages it compiles..
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| From | antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-14 21:23 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vooc7u$advq$1@paganini.bofh.team> |
| In reply to | #121608 |
James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
> On 2/14/25 03:48, David Brown wrote:
> ...
>> I'm not suggesting that I think any of this mixture is a good idea, but
>> I don't think making language-change markers is the biggest issue.
>
> I wouldn't dream of trying to create a "Universal Compiler". However,
> what little value I see in the concept lies in making it truly
> universal. I don't see much value in supporting different languages in
> the same file. Putting different languages in different files makes it
> trivial, without imposing restrictions on which languages it compiles..
Do I need to explain advantages of inline assembly or embedded SQL?
Or having grammar and semantic actions in a single file?
--
Waldek Hebisch
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-15 10:09 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <vopljn$3v09g$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121609 |
On 14/02/2025 22:23, Waldek Hebisch wrote: > James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote: >> On 2/14/25 03:48, David Brown wrote: >> ... >>> I'm not suggesting that I think any of this mixture is a good idea, but >>> I don't think making language-change markers is the biggest issue. >> >> I wouldn't dream of trying to create a "Universal Compiler". However, >> what little value I see in the concept lies in making it truly >> universal. I don't see much value in supporting different languages in >> the same file. Putting different languages in different files makes it >> trivial, without imposing restrictions on which languages it compiles.. > > Do I need to explain advantages of inline assembly or embedded SQL? > Or having grammar and semantic actions in a single file? > I think there is certainly value in mixing particular languages in a file - such as those you mention, or mixing PHP, HTML and JavaScript in a file for a website. But that is all for specific combinations that fit together in a natural way and have strong use-cases - it is not a random mixture. And the different languages are handled by different tools in different places - the C compiler does not handle the SQL code, as that is passed on to the database server at runtime. The PHP interpreter does not handle the JavaScript, it is passed on to the user's browser. There is also plenty of value in supporting multiple scripting languages for a large software system. Big database server or CAD software will often support scripts, procedures or functions in Python, Perl, Lua, JavaScript, BASIC-like languages or their own specific languages - users can then write scripts in whatever language suits them. I don't see much point in mixing such languages within a single file, however. Of course you want some way to call functions and procedures written in different languages in such a system - but that doesn't need mixing of the languages, just a common interface system. There's obvious value in having a compiler (or interpreter, JIT tool, VM, etc.) modularised and layered, with an aim to making it relatively easy to write new language frontends and re-use the rest of the system. And again, cross-language calling is useful. But again, mixing languages within the one file is rarely going to be of benefit to anyone, and could quickly be the source of confusion (as well as complexity of implementation).
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