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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #47017 > unrolled thread

Qucksort for Linked List

Started byxerofoify <xerofoify@gmail.com>
First post2016-12-02 10:14 -0800
Last post2016-12-03 08:05 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 128 — 21 participants

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Contents

  Qucksort for Linked List xerofoify <xerofoify@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 10:14 -0800
    Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-02 19:17 +0000
      Re: Qucksort for Linked List Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-12-02 22:09 +0100
        Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-02 21:26 +0000
          Re: Qucksort for Linked List Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-12-02 22:37 +0100
            Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-02 21:41 +0000
      Re: Qucksort for Linked List Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2016-12-12 13:16 +0000
        Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-12 18:32 +0000
          Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-12 18:34 +0000
          Re: Qucksort for Linked List asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2016-12-12 10:44 -0800
            Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-12 21:30 +0000
          Re: Qucksort for Linked List Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2016-12-13 07:26 +0000
            Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-13 17:51 +0000
              Re: Qucksort for Linked List Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-13 14:52 -0800
              Re: Qucksort for Linked List Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2016-12-14 10:26 +0000
              Re: Qucksort for Linked List "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-14 13:05 +0100
                Re: Qucksort for Linked List Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2016-12-14 14:06 +0000
                  Re: Qucksort for Linked List "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-14 16:59 +0100
                Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-14 20:19 +0000
                  Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-14 21:23 +0000
                    Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-14 21:42 +0000
                      Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-14 22:43 +0000
                    Re: Qucksort for Linked List Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2016-12-16 11:02 +0000
                      Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-16 23:00 +0000
                        Re: Qucksort for Linked List Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-16 23:00 -0800
                          Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-17 20:17 +0000
                            Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-18 21:15 +0000
                              Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-18 21:49 +0000
                                Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-18 21:51 +0000
                                Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-18 21:52 +0000
                                  Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-18 21:56 +0000
                                    Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-18 22:04 +0000
                                      Re: Qucksort for Linked List Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2016-12-19 00:22 +0200
                                        Re: Qucksort for Linked List "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-19 00:18 +0100
                                        Re: Qucksort for Linked List David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-19 08:58 +0100
                                          Re: Qucksort for Linked List gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-19 06:17 -0800
                                          Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-19 20:14 +0000
                                          Re: Qucksort for Linked List woodbrian77@gmail.com - 2016-12-23 10:55 -0800
                                          Re: Qucksort for Linked List Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2016-12-23 12:08 -0800
                                            Re: Qucksort for Linked List David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-27 10:39 +0100
                                              Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibble@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-27 17:48 +0000
                                                Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibble@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-27 17:53 +0000
                                                  Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-27 18:52 +0000
                                                    Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibble@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-27 19:06 +0000
                                                      Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-27 19:17 +0000
                                                        Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibble@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-27 21:05 +0000
                                                          Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-27 21:15 +0000
                                                            Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibble@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-27 21:21 +0000
                                                              Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-27 21:29 +0000
                                                                Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibble@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-27 21:33 +0000
                                                          Re: Qucksort for Linked List David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-28 10:03 +0100
                                                            Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-28 15:34 +0000
                                                              Re: Qucksort for Linked List David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-29 09:38 +0100
                                                            Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibble@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-28 16:40 +0000
                                                              Re: Qucksort for Linked List Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2016-12-28 08:55 -0800
                                                                Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-28 17:02 +0000
                                                                Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibble@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-28 17:12 +0000
                                                                  Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibble@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-28 17:21 +0000
                                                                  Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-29 11:05 -0600
                                                                  Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-29 17:43 +0000
                                                                    Re: Qucksort for Linked List David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-30 09:48 +0100
                                                                      Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-30 11:37 +0000
                                                                        Re: Qucksort for Linked List David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-30 13:23 +0100
                                                                  Re: Qucksort for Linked List David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-29 11:00 +0100
                                                              Re: Qucksort for Linked List David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-29 09:43 +0100
                                      Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-18 22:56 +0000
                                    Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-18 22:52 +0000
                                      Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-18 23:07 +0000
                                        Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-19 05:48 +0000
                                    Re: Qucksort for Linked List Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2016-12-19 08:09 +0000
                          Re: Qucksort for Linked List Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2016-12-19 08:06 +0000
                            Re: Qucksort for Linked List leigh.v.johnston@googlemail.com - 2016-12-19 04:46 -0800
                              Re: Qucksort for Linked List bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-12-19 15:04 +0100
                              Re: Qucksort for Linked List gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-19 06:40 -0800
                                Re: Qucksort for Linked List bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-12-19 18:48 +0100
                                  Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-19 18:53 +0000
                                    Re: Qucksort for Linked List bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-12-19 21:26 +0100
                                      Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-19 20:32 +0000
                                Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-19 19:09 +0000
                                  Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-19 19:14 +0000
                                  Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-19 19:31 +0000
                                    Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-19 19:45 +0000
                                      Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-19 20:19 +0000
                                  Re: Qucksort for Linked List Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2016-12-20 07:18 +0000
                                    Re: Qucksort for Linked List leigh.v.johnston@googlemail.com - 2016-12-20 04:31 -0800
                                      Re: Qucksort for Linked List Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2016-12-21 07:08 +0000
                                        Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-21 19:39 +0000
                                          Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-21 20:54 +0000
                                      Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-21 19:28 +0000
                                        Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-21 19:43 +0000
                                          Re: Qucksort for Linked List Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-21 20:34 +0000
                                          Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-21 20:53 +0000
                                            Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-21 20:58 +0000
                                              Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-21 23:34 +0000
                                                Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-22 00:19 +0000
                                                  Re: Qucksort for Linked List Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2017-01-04 07:04 +0000
                                                    Re: Qucksort for Linked List Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 07:18 -0800
                                                      Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 18:39 +0000
                                                        Re: Qucksort for Linked List Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 07:29 -0800
                                                          Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2017-01-05 21:21 +0000
                                                            Re: Qucksort for Linked List Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-06 10:35 +1300
                                                Re: Qucksort for Linked List Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-22 21:43 -0800
                            Re: Qucksort for Linked List Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-22 22:09 -0800
                              Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-23 17:00 +0000
                                Re: Qucksort for Linked List Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-23 12:03 -0800
                                  Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-23 20:25 +0000
                                    Re: Qucksort for Linked List Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-23 20:56 +0000
                                      Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-23 22:02 +0000
                                        Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-23 22:14 +0000
                                    Re: Qucksort for Linked List Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-29 13:56 -0800
                                      Re: Qucksort for Linked List Mr Flibble <flibble@i42.co.uk> - 2016-12-29 23:26 +0000
                                        Re: Qucksort for Linked List Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-29 20:25 -0800
                              Re: Qucksort for Linked List Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2017-01-04 07:07 +0000
                                Re: Qucksort for Linked List Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-01-26 22:40 -0800
    Re: Qucksort for Linked List xerofoify <xerofoify@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 13:47 -0800
      Re: Qucksort for Linked List ruben safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> - 2016-12-02 17:38 -0500
        Re: Qucksort for Linked List xerofoify <xerofoify@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 14:53 -0800
          Re: Qucksort for Linked List Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-02 19:50 -0500
          Re: Qucksort for Linked List ruben safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> - 2016-12-02 21:17 -0500
            Re: Qucksort for Linked List xerofoify <xerofoify@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 20:44 -0800
              Re: Qucksort for Linked List xerofoify <xerofoify@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 20:52 -0800
                Re: Qucksort for Linked List Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-03 11:07 +0000
              Re: Qucksort for Linked List ruben safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> - 2016-12-03 13:38 -0500
      Re: Qucksort for Linked List Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2016-12-03 01:46 -0800
        Re: Qucksort for Linked List Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2016-12-12 13:18 +0000
    Re: Qucksort for Linked List "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-03 01:16 +0100
      Re: Qucksort for Linked List bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-12-03 08:25 +0100
    Re: Qucksort for Linked List bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-12-03 08:05 +0100

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#47367

FromGareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-14 21:42 +0000
Message-ID<87vaumqjal.fsf@gmail.com>
In reply to#47366
Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> writes:

> On 14/12/2016 20:19, Gareth Owen wrote:
>> "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 13.12.2016 18:51, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Quicksort will be worse than O(n . lg n) for linked lists.
>>>
>>> /That/ depends very much on the implementation, or possibly what one's
>>> idea of the defining characteristic of Quicksort, is.
>>
>> Just be aware that Flibble has shown on multiple occasions that
>> mathematics is not one of his strengths.
>
> By asserting that there is no such thing as negative zero and that
> division by zero is undefined?  My assertions are correct mate.

They're true of the real numbers, but to suggest they're always true is
to deny the the existence of projective geometry.

Mathematics is not one of your strengths.  I'll bet £1 to your favourite
charity that your best qualification in Mathematics is not better than a
'B' at 'A-level'.

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#47369

FromMr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk>
Date2016-12-14 22:43 +0000
Message-ID<LuCdnYuXe71gV8zFnZ2dnUU7-RednZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#47367
On 14/12/2016 21:42, Gareth Owen wrote:
> Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> writes:
>
>> On 14/12/2016 20:19, Gareth Owen wrote:
>>> "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 13.12.2016 18:51, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Quicksort will be worse than O(n . lg n) for linked lists.
>>>>
>>>> /That/ depends very much on the implementation, or possibly what one's
>>>> idea of the defining characteristic of Quicksort, is.
>>>
>>> Just be aware that Flibble has shown on multiple occasions that
>>> mathematics is not one of his strengths.
>>
>> By asserting that there is no such thing as negative zero and that
>> division by zero is undefined?  My assertions are correct mate.
>
> They're true of the real numbers, but to suggest they're always true is
> to deny the the existence of projective geometry.

Projective bullshit more like.

>
> Mathematics is not one of your strengths.  I'll bet £1 to your favourite
> charity that your best qualification in Mathematics is not better than a
> 'B' at 'A-level'.

Ad hom, a logical fallacy.

/Flibble

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#47389

FromJuha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid>
Date2016-12-16 11:02 +0000
Message-ID<o30hk4$112$1@adenine.netfront.net>
In reply to#47366
Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> wrote:
> By asserting that there is no such thing as negative zero and that 
> division by zero is undefined?  My assertions are correct mate.

So maybe show us how the asymptotic behavior of quicksort on linked
lists is different than for random access arrays.

The question here is not what the asymptotic behavior of quicksort
is (because that's a bit complicated), but whether it's different
for linked lists.

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#47392

FromMr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk>
Date2016-12-16 23:00 +0000
Message-ID<ANqdnaKugKq-78nFnZ2dnUU7-VWdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#47389
On 16/12/2016 11:02, Juha Nieminen wrote:
> Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> wrote:
>> By asserting that there is no such thing as negative zero and that
>> division by zero is undefined?  My assertions are correct mate.
>
> So maybe show us how the asymptotic behavior of quicksort on linked
> lists is different than for random access arrays.
>
> The question here is not what the asymptotic behavior of quicksort
> is (because that's a bit complicated), but whether it's different
> for linked lists.

Due to poor pivot choice worst case performance will manifest more often 
and that is quadratic complexity.

/Flibble

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#47394

FromTim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu>
Date2016-12-16 23:00 -0800
Message-ID<kfnpokrdor0.fsf@x-alumni2.alumni.caltech.edu>
In reply to#47392
Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> writes:

> On 16/12/2016 11:02, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>> Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> wrote:
>>> By asserting that there is no such thing as negative zero and that
>>> division by zero is undefined?  My assertions are correct mate.
>>
>> So maybe show us how the asymptotic behavior of quicksort on linked
>> lists is different than for random access arrays.
>>
>> The question here is not what the asymptotic behavior of quicksort
>> is (because that's a bit complicated), but whether it's different
>> for linked lists.
>
> Due to poor pivot choice worst case performance will manifest more
> often and that is quadratic complexity.

There is no reason that the choice of a pivot value has to be any
worse in a linked list quicksort than an array quicksort.  In
particular, the entire linked list can be scanned, any constant
number of times, looking for a pivot value, without changing the
order of the algorithm.

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#47396

FromMr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk>
Date2016-12-17 20:17 +0000
Message-ID<sbidnZCyNPHJAMjFnZ2dnUU7-YGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#47394
On 17/12/2016 07:00, Tim Rentsch wrote:
> Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> writes:
>
>> On 16/12/2016 11:02, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>>> Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> By asserting that there is no such thing as negative zero and that
>>>> division by zero is undefined?  My assertions are correct mate.
>>>
>>> So maybe show us how the asymptotic behavior of quicksort on linked
>>> lists is different than for random access arrays.
>>>
>>> The question here is not what the asymptotic behavior of quicksort
>>> is (because that's a bit complicated), but whether it's different
>>> for linked lists.
>>
>> Due to poor pivot choice worst case performance will manifest more
>> often and that is quadratic complexity.
>
> There is no reason that the choice of a pivot value has to be any
> worse in a linked list quicksort than an array quicksort.  In
> particular, the entire linked list can be scanned, any constant
> number of times, looking for a pivot value, without changing the
> order of the algorithm.

Nah.

/Flibble

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#47409

FromGareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-18 21:15 +0000
Message-ID<87inqhdjmj.fsf@gmail.com>
In reply to#47396
Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> writes:

> On 17/12/2016 07:00, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>> There is no reason that the choice of a pivot value has to be any
>> worse in a linked list quicksort than an array quicksort.  In
>> particular, the entire linked list can be scanned, any constant
>> number of times, looking for a pivot value, without changing the
>> order of the algorithm.
>
> Nah.

Mathematics is not a strength.

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#47413

FromMr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk>
Date2016-12-18 21:49 +0000
Message-ID<8KadncH99b3rmcrFnZ2dnUU7-b_NnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#47409
On 18/12/2016 21:15, Gareth Owen wrote:
> Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> writes:
>
>> On 17/12/2016 07:00, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>>> There is no reason that the choice of a pivot value has to be any
>>> worse in a linked list quicksort than an array quicksort.  In
>>> particular, the entire linked list can be scanned, any constant
>>> number of times, looking for a pivot value, without changing the
>>> order of the algorithm.
>>
>> Nah.
>
> Mathematics is not a strength.

The bullshit branches of Mathematics are indeed not a strength mate 
because I see them for what they are: nonsense; they should be an 
adjunct to mathematics not a part of mathematics. There is no negative 
zero; and division by zero is undefined.

/Flibble

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#47414

FromMr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk>
Date2016-12-18 21:51 +0000
Message-ID<8KadncD99b1lmcrFnZ2dnUU7-b-dnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#47413
On 18/12/2016 21:49, Mr Flibble wrote:
> On 18/12/2016 21:15, Gareth Owen wrote:
>> Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>> On 17/12/2016 07:00, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>>>> There is no reason that the choice of a pivot value has to be any
>>>> worse in a linked list quicksort than an array quicksort.  In
>>>> particular, the entire linked list can be scanned, any constant
>>>> number of times, looking for a pivot value, without changing the
>>>> order of the algorithm.
>>>
>>> Nah.
>>
>> Mathematics is not a strength.
>
> The bullshit branches of Mathematics are indeed not a strength mate
> because I see them for what they are: nonsense; they should be an
> adjunct to mathematics not a part of mathematics. There is no negative
> zero; and division by zero is undefined.

And whilst on the subject of bullshit mathematics: a countable infinity 
is unbounded just like an uncountable one.

/Flibble

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#47415

FromGareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-18 21:52 +0000
Message-ID<87wpewkir1.fsf@gmail.com>
In reply to#47413
Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> writes:

> On 18/12/2016 21:15, Gareth Owen wrote:
>> Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>> On 17/12/2016 07:00, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>>>> There is no reason that the choice of a pivot value has to be any
>>>> worse in a linked list quicksort than an array quicksort.  In
>>>> particular, the entire linked list can be scanned, any constant
>>>> number of times, looking for a pivot value, without changing the
>>>> order of the algorithm.
>>>
>>> Nah.
>>
>> Mathematics is not a strength.
>
> The bullshit branches of Mathematics are indeed not a strength mate
> because I see them for what they are: nonsense; they should be an
> adjunct to mathematics not a part of mathematics. There is no negative
> zero; and division by zero is undefined.

Mathematics is not a strength is it.  Simple maths - junior school maths
- you're ok with.  Harder stuff you just dismiss.

Tell us again how linked lists change the order of quicksort.
Show your working.

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#47416

FromMr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk>
Date2016-12-18 21:56 +0000
Message-ID<8KadncP99b2-m8rFnZ2dnUU7-b-dnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#47415
On 18/12/2016 21:52, Gareth Owen wrote:
> Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> writes:
>
>> On 18/12/2016 21:15, Gareth Owen wrote:
>>> Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 17/12/2016 07:00, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>>>>> There is no reason that the choice of a pivot value has to be any
>>>>> worse in a linked list quicksort than an array quicksort.  In
>>>>> particular, the entire linked list can be scanned, any constant
>>>>> number of times, looking for a pivot value, without changing the
>>>>> order of the algorithm.
>>>>
>>>> Nah.
>>>
>>> Mathematics is not a strength.
>>
>> The bullshit branches of Mathematics are indeed not a strength mate
>> because I see them for what they are: nonsense; they should be an
>> adjunct to mathematics not a part of mathematics. There is no negative
>> zero; and division by zero is undefined.
>
> Mathematics is not a strength is it.  Simple maths - junior school maths
> - you're ok with.  Harder stuff you just dismiss.

No I don't dismiss the harder stuff; I dismiss bollocks such as 
projective geometry.  It isn't mathematics it is an abstraction of 
mathematics.

>
> Tell us again how linked lists change the order of quicksort.

See my other reply.

> Show your working.

Fuck off you self important cunt.

/Flibble

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#47417

FromMr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk>
Date2016-12-18 22:04 +0000
Message-ID<1_mdndo8d8VFmsrFnZ2dnUU7-KfNnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#47416
On 18/12/2016 21:56, Mr Flibble wrote:
> On 18/12/2016 21:52, Gareth Owen wrote:
>> Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>> On 18/12/2016 21:15, Gareth Owen wrote:
>>>> Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> Nah.
>>>>
>>>> Mathematics is not a strength.
>>>
>>> The bullshit branches of Mathematics are indeed not a strength mate
>>> because I see them for what they are: nonsense; they should be an
>>> adjunct to mathematics not a part of mathematics. There is no negative
>>> zero; and division by zero is undefined.
>>
>> Mathematics is not a strength is it.  Simple maths - junior school maths
>> - you're ok with.  Harder stuff you just dismiss.
>
> No I don't dismiss the harder stuff; I dismiss bollocks such as
> projective geometry.  It isn't mathematics it is an abstraction of
> mathematics.
>

As I can read you like a book and anticipate your next reply: yes the 
complex plane is an abstraction and no I don't think complex number 
theory is bullshit.  This is not the same kind of abstraction as made 
with projective geometry.

/Flibble

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#47420

FromPaavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee>
Date2016-12-19 00:22 +0200
Message-ID<9IKdnXuRhJnakcrFnZ2dnUU78KnNnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#47417
On 19.12.2016 0:04, Mr Flibble wrote:
> On 18/12/2016 21:56, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> On 18/12/2016 21:52, Gareth Owen wrote:
>>> Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 18/12/2016 21:15, Gareth Owen wrote:
>>>>> Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nah.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mathematics is not a strength.
>>>>
>>>> The bullshit branches of Mathematics are indeed not a strength mate
>>>> because I see them for what they are: nonsense; they should be an
>>>> adjunct to mathematics not a part of mathematics. There is no negative
>>>> zero; and division by zero is undefined.
>>>
>>> Mathematics is not a strength is it.  Simple maths - junior school maths
>>> - you're ok with.  Harder stuff you just dismiss.
>>
>> No I don't dismiss the harder stuff; I dismiss bollocks such as
>> projective geometry.  It isn't mathematics it is an abstraction of
>> mathematics.
>>
>
> As I can read you like a book and anticipate your next reply: yes the
> complex plane is an abstraction and no I don't think complex number
> theory is bullshit.  This is not the same kind of abstraction as made
> with projective geometry.

So, how do you tell apart which abstractions are good and which are bad? 
In my naivety I have always thought all the maths is abstractions, 
basically about the same kind ...

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#47427

From"Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-19 00:18 +0100
Message-ID<o375d6$dce$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#47420
On 18.12.2016 23:22, Paavo Helde wrote:
>
> So, how do you tell apart which abstractions are good and which are bad?
> In my naivety I have always thought all the maths is abstractions,
> basically about the same kind ...

I think what Mr. Flibble means is that some esoteric mathematical 
notions are being misunderstood as having practical utility for 
calculations.


Cheers!,

- Alf

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#47431

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2016-12-19 08:58 +0100
Message-ID<o383so$f4f$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#47420
On 18/12/16 23:22, Paavo Helde wrote:
> On 19.12.2016 0:04, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> On 18/12/2016 21:56, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>> On 18/12/2016 21:52, Gareth Owen wrote:
>>>> Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 18/12/2016 21:15, Gareth Owen wrote:
>>>>>> Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nah.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mathematics is not a strength.
>>>>>
>>>>> The bullshit branches of Mathematics are indeed not a strength mate
>>>>> because I see them for what they are: nonsense; they should be an
>>>>> adjunct to mathematics not a part of mathematics. There is no negative
>>>>> zero; and division by zero is undefined.
>>>>
>>>> Mathematics is not a strength is it.  Simple maths - junior school
>>>> maths
>>>> - you're ok with.  Harder stuff you just dismiss.
>>>
>>> No I don't dismiss the harder stuff; I dismiss bollocks such as
>>> projective geometry.  It isn't mathematics it is an abstraction of
>>> mathematics.
>>>
>>
>> As I can read you like a book and anticipate your next reply: yes the
>> complex plane is an abstraction and no I don't think complex number
>> theory is bullshit.  This is not the same kind of abstraction as made
>> with projective geometry.
> 
> So, how do you tell apart which abstractions are good and which are bad?
> In my naivety I have always thought all the maths is abstractions,
> basically about the same kind ...
> 

"God made the integers, all else is the work of man"

I don't think Mr. Flibble likes any mathematics that can't be described
in terms of sausages.  You can count sausages, so positive integers are
okay.  You can owe someone sausages, so negative numbers are okay.  You
can divide them, so rationals are okay.  Basic geometry can be done with
strings of sausages.  But algebraic structures of sausages, functions of
sausages, sausages in non-Euclidian spaces, all that is, in his mind,
irrelevant.

(There is nothing wrong with not being good at maths, or not knowing
much about higher level maths.  Some people have studied maths at
university level - but most people have not.  What bugs me about Mr.
Flibble is not that he doesn't know much maths - it's that he thinks he
knows all /real/ maths and that everything else is irrelevant nonsense.)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#47436

Fromgwowen <gwowen@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-19 06:17 -0800
Message-ID<65915bc2-cac8-44ad-aa81-e2e931dd5920@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#47431
On Monday, December 19, 2016 at 7:58:50 AM UTC, David Brown wrote:

> What bugs me about Mr. Flibble is not that he doesn't know much maths - 
> it's that he thinks he knows all /real/ maths and that everything 
> else is irrelevant nonsense.)

I agree completely with this sentiment.

Incidentally, one could probably abstract projective geometry using
the approximately-spherical layer of sausage meat that surrounds a 
scotch egg.  Maybe if someone were to formulate like that....

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#47448

FromMr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk>
Date2016-12-19 20:14 +0000
Message-ID<B8mdnfAcTcU1osXFnZ2dnUU7-W2dnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#47431
On 19/12/2016 07:58, David Brown wrote:
> On 18/12/16 23:22, Paavo Helde wrote:
>> On 19.12.2016 0:04, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>> On 18/12/2016 21:56, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>> On 18/12/2016 21:52, Gareth Owen wrote:
>>>>> Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 18/12/2016 21:15, Gareth Owen wrote:
>>>>>>> Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nah.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mathematics is not a strength.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The bullshit branches of Mathematics are indeed not a strength mate
>>>>>> because I see them for what they are: nonsense; they should be an
>>>>>> adjunct to mathematics not a part of mathematics. There is no negative
>>>>>> zero; and division by zero is undefined.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mathematics is not a strength is it.  Simple maths - junior school
>>>>> maths
>>>>> - you're ok with.  Harder stuff you just dismiss.
>>>>
>>>> No I don't dismiss the harder stuff; I dismiss bollocks such as
>>>> projective geometry.  It isn't mathematics it is an abstraction of
>>>> mathematics.
>>>>
>>>
>>> As I can read you like a book and anticipate your next reply: yes the
>>> complex plane is an abstraction and no I don't think complex number
>>> theory is bullshit.  This is not the same kind of abstraction as made
>>> with projective geometry.
>>
>> So, how do you tell apart which abstractions are good and which are bad?
>> In my naivety I have always thought all the maths is abstractions,
>> basically about the same kind ...
>>
>
> "God made the integers, all else is the work of man"
>
> I don't think Mr. Flibble likes any mathematics that can't be described
> in terms of sausages.  You can count sausages, so positive integers are
> okay.  You can owe someone sausages, so negative numbers are okay.  You
> can divide them, so rationals are okay.  Basic geometry can be done with
> strings of sausages.  But algebraic structures of sausages, functions of
> sausages, sausages in non-Euclidian spaces, all that is, in his mind,
> irrelevant.
>
> (There is nothing wrong with not being good at maths, or not knowing
> much about higher level maths.  Some people have studied maths at
> university level - but most people have not.  What bugs me about Mr.
> Flibble is not that he doesn't know much maths - it's that he thinks he
> knows all /real/ maths and that everything else is irrelevant nonsense.)

Yes I agree totally: sausages are important.  If it doesn't work with 
sausages it is woo.

/Flibble

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#47555

Fromwoodbrian77@gmail.com
Date2016-12-23 10:55 -0800
Message-ID<c292937d-c196-4694-8fd3-3db7717367f4@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#47431
On Monday, December 19, 2016 at 1:58:50 AM UTC-6, David Brown wrote:
> On 18/12/16 23:22, Paavo Helde wrote:
> > On 19.12.2016 0:04, Mr Flibble wrote:
> >> On 18/12/2016 21:56, Mr Flibble wrote:
> >>> On 18/12/2016 21:52, Gareth Owen wrote:
> >>>> Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> writes:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 18/12/2016 21:15, Gareth Owen wrote:
> >>>>>> Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> writes:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Nah.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mathematics is not a strength.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The bullshit branches of Mathematics are indeed not a strength mate
> >>>>> because I see them for what they are: nonsense; they should be an
> >>>>> adjunct to mathematics not a part of mathematics. There is no negative
> >>>>> zero; and division by zero is undefined.
> >>>>
> >>>> Mathematics is not a strength is it.  Simple maths - junior school
> >>>> maths
> >>>> - you're ok with.  Harder stuff you just dismiss.
> >>>
> >>> No I don't dismiss the harder stuff; I dismiss bollocks such as
> >>> projective geometry.  It isn't mathematics it is an abstraction of
> >>> mathematics.
> >>>
> >>
> >> As I can read you like a book and anticipate your next reply: yes the
> >> complex plane is an abstraction and no I don't think complex number
> >> theory is bullshit.  This is not the same kind of abstraction as made
> >> with projective geometry.
> > 
> > So, how do you tell apart which abstractions are good and which are bad?
> > In my naivety I have always thought all the maths is abstractions,
> > basically about the same kind ...
> > 
> 
> "God made the integers, all else is the work of man"

I agree with the German astronomer Kepler when he
described his mathematical work as "thinking G-d's 
thoughts after Him." 

http://inventors.about.com/od/famousinventors/fl/Johannes-Kepler-Astronomy.htm

Johannes Kepler was born on December 27, 1571, in Weil der Stadt, Württemburg, 
------------------------------------------------------------

Kepler sounds like he was a mensch -- a decent and humble man.


Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net

Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net

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#47558

FromDaniel <danielaparker@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-23 12:08 -0800
Message-ID<adeb2a74-02e3-4cff-8f79-f35230c15526@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#47431
On Monday, December 19, 2016 at 2:58:50 AM UTC-5, David Brown wrote:
> 
> "God made the integers, all else is the work of man"
> 
Depends where you want to start. You can start with set theory, and derive the 
integers as equivalence classes. Mr Fliblle, as you note, starts with sausages.

God, of course, is the ultimate undefined concept. Assume there is a god with some
properties, and see what follows.

Best regards,
Daniel

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#47640

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2016-12-27 10:39 +0100
Message-ID<o3tcpc$to8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#47558
On 23/12/16 21:08, Daniel wrote:
> On Monday, December 19, 2016 at 2:58:50 AM UTC-5, David Brown wrote:
>>
>> "God made the integers, all else is the work of man"
>>
> Depends where you want to start. You can start with set theory, and derive the 
> integers as equivalence classes. Mr Fliblle, as you note, starts with sausages.

Yes, you have to start somewhere.  If you pick axiomatic set theory, you
can derive integers from there - but you can keep going and make
rationals, reals, complex numbers, infinite cardinals and ordinals (who
volunteers to explain to Mr. Flibble that the first countably infinite
ordinal, ω, has 1 + ω = ω, but ω + 1 > ω ?), and any other mathematics
you like.  From a mathematical viewpoint, integers are as constructed as
anything else.

I don't think anyone has thought of a system more fundamental than set
theory (from which set theory could be derived).  But maybe someone will
eventually.

> 
> God, of course, is the ultimate undefined concept. Assume there is a god with some
> properties, and see what follows.
> 
> Best regards,
> Daniel
> 

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