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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #88625 > unrolled thread

Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set

Started byBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
First post2023-01-19 15:42 +0100
Last post2023-01-19 16:48 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 92 — 24 participants

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  Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-01-19 15:42 +0100
    Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-19 16:18 +0100
      Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-01-19 16:32 +0000
        Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-19 19:22 +0100
          Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-01-19 20:00 +0000
          Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-01-20 15:48 +0000
        Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-01-25 13:00 +0000
          Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-01-25 14:52 -0500
            Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-01-25 14:13 -0800
              Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-26 00:03 +0100
                Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set ikook <iKook@GMAIL.COM> - 2023-01-25 23:17 +0000
                  Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-01-25 23:37 +0000
                  Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-26 09:19 +0100
            Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-01-26 00:09 +0000
              Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-01-25 23:55 -0500
      Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-01-19 08:40 -0800
        Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> - 2023-01-19 08:42 -0800
          Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-01-19 20:10 +0000
            Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-01-19 20:17 +0000
              Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-01-20 15:49 +0000
                Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-01-20 17:21 +0000
                  Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-01-21 15:50 +0000
                Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-01-20 11:35 -0800
                  Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-21 13:06 +0100
                    Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-01-21 15:56 +0000
                      Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-22 13:33 +0100
                        Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-01-23 09:34 +0000
                          Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-23 14:29 +0100
                            Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-01-23 14:21 +0000
                              Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2023-01-23 13:03 -0600
                                Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-01-23 20:06 +0000
                                  Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2023-01-23 14:46 -0600
                                    Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-01-23 22:00 +0000
                                    Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-24 14:20 +0100
                                      Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-01-24 15:36 +0000
                                        Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-01-24 08:06 -0800
                                        Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-24 18:30 +0100
                                          Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-01-24 18:50 +0000
                                            Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-24 20:36 +0100
                                            Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2023-01-24 19:50 +0000
                                              Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities Marc SCHAEFER <schaefer@alphanet.ch> - 2023-01-24 19:56 +0000
                                            Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2023-01-24 20:31 -0600
                                              Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-01-24 20:07 -0800
                                                Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2023-01-25 05:02 +0000
                                      Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-01-24 17:47 +0000
                                        Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-01-24 13:30 -0500
                                          Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-24 20:42 +0100
                                        Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-24 20:46 +0100
                                          Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-01-24 19:56 +0000
                                            Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-24 22:00 +0000
                                              Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-25 00:00 +0100
                                                Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2023-01-25 00:17 +0000
                                                  Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-25 09:43 +0100
                                          Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2023-01-25 10:39 -0600
                                            Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-01-25 14:51 -0500
                                            Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-26 00:00 +0100
                                              Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-01-25 23:49 +0000
                                                Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-26 09:23 +0100
                                              Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) iKook <iKook@gmail.com> - 2023-01-26 02:27 +0000
                                                Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-01-25 23:55 -0500
                                                  Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) iKook <iKook@gmail.com> - 2023-01-26 18:22 +0000
                                                Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-26 09:44 +0100
                                                  Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-01-26 01:40 -0800
                                                    Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-26 13:14 +0100
                                                  Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) iKook <iKook@gmail.com> - 2023-01-26 18:13 +0000
                                                  Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2023-01-27 22:12 -0600
                                                    Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-28 13:20 +0100
                                                  Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) Pluted Pup <plutedpup@outlook.com> - 2023-01-28 20:20 -0800
                                                    Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-29 12:00 +0100
                                                      Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-01-29 12:01 +0000
                                                        Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2023-01-29 16:23 -0800
                                                          [OT] Writing IMHO Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-01-30 01:14 +0000
                                          Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-01-25 22:58 +0000
                                            Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-26 13:10 +0100
                                          Thunderbird Broken Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) Pluted Pup <plutedpup@outlook.com> - 2023-01-28 19:54 -0800
                                            Re: Thunderbird Broken Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-29 12:04 +0100
                                        Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2023-01-24 20:30 -0600
                                      Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2023-01-24 20:25 -0600
                                        Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-01-25 00:10 -0500
                                        Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-25 10:56 +0100
                                      Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) Pluted Pup <plutedpup@outlook.com> - 2023-01-28 19:28 -0800
                                        Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-29 12:36 +0100
                                          Pluted Pup is trolling you, you blithering idiot (was: Server glitch vs other possibilities) "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2023-01-29 17:23 +0000
                                            Re: Pluted Pup is trolling you, you blithering idiot (was: Server glitch vs other possibilities) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-30 08:22 +0100
                                  Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set) "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2023-01-23 22:18 +0000
        Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2023-01-19 17:08 +0000
          Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-01-19 17:15 +0000
      Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-01-19 16:54 +0000
      Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set Pluted Pup <plutedpup@outlook.com> - 2023-01-21 13:03 -0800
        Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set Pluted Pup <plutedpup@outlook.com> - 2023-01-21 14:01 -0800
    Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-01-19 16:30 +0000
    Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-01-19 16:48 +0000

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#88816 — Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities

FromMarc SCHAEFER <schaefer@alphanet.ch>
Date2023-01-24 19:56 +0000
SubjectRe: Server glitch vs other possibilities
Message-ID<tqpd5e$dqi$2@shakotay.alphanet.ch>
In reply to#88815
In news.admin.net-abuse.usenet Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> It does not honor third-party cancels. It will honor first-party cancels
> using the Cancel-Lock protocol but not a cancel control message without
> using Cancel-Lock.

In the past, it also had issues handling continuation Cancel-Lock lines,
I reported the problem to the newsmaster who did not reply.

-- 
Attention: limitez le nombre de lignes de citation à l'essentiel, sinon
je ne verrai pas votre réponse. Et si vous écrivez souvent des bobards,
je ne vous lirai plus et je recommanderai (NoCeM) de ne plus vous lire.

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#88827 — Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)

FromDavid Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
Date2023-01-24 20:31 -0600
SubjectRe: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)
Message-ID<8o0p2oso-069q-274q-6o9o-3s5n00p37540@zvaqfcevat.pbz>
In reply to#88811
On Tuesday, 24 January 2023 18:50 -0000, 
 in article <tLVzL.775660$GNG9.378305@fx18.iad>, 
 Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:

> Does eternel-september.org honor cancels?

This, like the vast majority of this thread, is irrelevant.

-- 
David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
 Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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#88828 — Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2023-01-24 20:07 -0800
SubjectRe: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)
Message-ID<87357zjlyo.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#88827
David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> writes:
> On Tuesday, 24 January 2023 18:50 -0000, 
>  in article <tLVzL.775660$GNG9.378305@fx18.iad>, 
>  Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>
>> Does eternel-september.org honor cancels?
>
> This, like the vast majority of this thread, is irrelevant.

It's certainly irrelevant to comp.lang.c++.  I suggest
dropping comp.lang.c++ from any replies and posting only to
news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.

Personally, I didn't see the beginning of this brouhaha, since I've
blocked Bonita's posts, but when I saw the discussion I made an
initial assumption about what had happened.  Having followed the
discussion, it appears that *either* a particular user created a
forgery *or* a server glitch made it appear that way.

I do not care which.  I ask those who do to discuss it elsewhere.

(If this was trolling, it was spectacularly successful.)

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for XCOM Labs
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#88830 — Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)

From"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date2023-01-25 05:02 +0000
SubjectRe: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)
Message-ID<tqqd4q$h8q4$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88828
Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
>David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> writes:
>>Tuesday, 24 January 2023 18:50 -0000, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home>:

>>>Does eternel-september.org honor cancels?

>>This, like the vast majority of this thread, is irrelevant.

>It's certainly irrelevant to comp.lang.c++.  I suggest
>dropping comp.lang.c++ from any replies and posting only to
>news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.

>Personally, I didn't see the beginning of this brouhaha, since I've
>blocked Bonita's posts, but when I saw the discussion I made an
>initial assumption about what had happened.  Having followed the
>discussion, it appears that *either* a particular user created a
>forgery *or* a server glitch made it appear that way.

>I do not care which.  I ask those who do to discuss it elsewhere.

>(If this was trolling, it was spectacularly successful.)

You crossposted and posted off topic and troll fed to ask other people
to stop crossposting and to stop posting off topic and to stop troll
feeding.

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#88809 — Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)

FromSpiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com>
Date2023-01-24 17:47 +0000
SubjectRe: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)
Message-ID<B1jyOFXZ9kwyO2oB1@bongo-ra.co>
In reply to#88804
On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:20:19 +0100
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> It is quite clear that there has been a glitch on the 
> news.eternal-september.org server.  Somehow, a message body from 
> rec.arts.books has been crosslinked, was delivered as though it matched 
> the normal-looking pre-downloaded header in the thread.  (I'm guessing 
> Muttley actually made a post in the original thread, but I am unable to 
> see the real message body.)  The glitch appears to be limited to 
> news.eternal-september.org - other users of that server have said they 
> saw it, while it did not appear on other servers.  People have reported 
> the existence of the rambling essay post in rec.arts.books, made by Ilya 
> Shambat - it was a real post, but on news.eternal-september.org the 
> message body was accidentally attached to the wrong header summaries for 
> comp.lang.c++.
> 
> Usenet server glitches are rare - client glitches are more likely.  The 
> same glitch occurring for at least three different people is, however, 
> highly unlikely.

It could be a Thunderbird issue. Note the following :

    From: Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
    Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,comp.lang.c++
    Subject: Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set
    Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2023 15:42:54 +0100
    Message-ID: <tqbkrr$1ja1c$1@dont-email.me>
    User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
     Thunderbird/102.6.1

    From: red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid>
    Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++
    Subject: Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set
    Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2023 08:42:51 -0800
    Message-ID: <tqbrub$1kco3$1@redfloyd.dont-email.me>
    User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
     Thunderbird/102.6.1

    From: David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
    Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++,news.admin.net-abuse.usenet
    Subject: Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique
     Numbers in a Set)
    Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2023 18:30:21 +0100
    Message-ID: <tqp4jd$7ik0$1@dont-email.me>
    User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
     Thunderbird/102.4.2

All 3 of you use Thunderbird. Not precisely the same version but close. I assume
you have tried to reproduce the steps which originally led you to see the defective
post and you can no longer reproduce them.

-- 
vlaho.ninja/prog

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#88810 — Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu>
Date2023-01-24 13:30 -0500
SubjectRe: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)
Message-ID<tqp83k$8a7p$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88809
On 1/24/23 12:47, Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:20:19 +0100
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>> It is quite clear that there has been a glitch on the
>> news.eternal-september.org server. Somehow, a message body from
>> rec.arts.books has been crosslinked, was delivered as though it
>> matched the normal-looking pre-downloaded header in the thread. (I'm
>> guessing Muttley actually made a post in the original thread, but I
>> am unable to see the real message body.) The glitch appears to be
>> limited to news.eternal-september.org - other users of that server
>> have said they saw it, while it did not appear on other servers.
>> People have reported the existence of the rambling essay post in
>> rec.arts.books, made by Ilya Shambat - it was a real post, but on
>> news.eternal-september.org the message body was accidentally attached
>> to the wrong header summaries for comp.lang.c++.
>>
>> Usenet server glitches are rare - client glitches are more likely.
>> The same glitch occurring for at least three different people is,
>> however, highly unlikely.
>
> It could be a Thunderbird issue. Note the following :
>
> From: Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,comp.lang.c++
> Subject: Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set
> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2023 15:42:54 +0100
> Message-ID: <tqbkrr$1ja1c$1@dont-email.me>
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0)
> Gecko/20100101
> Thunderbird/102.6.1
>
> From: red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid>
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++
> Subject: Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set
> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2023 08:42:51 -0800
> Message-ID: <tqbrub$1kco3$1@redfloyd.dont-email.me>
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0)
> Gecko/20100101
> Thunderbird/102.6.1
>
> From: David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++,news.admin.net-abuse.usenet
> Subject: Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique
> Numbers in a Set)
> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2023 18:30:21 +0100
> Message-ID: <tqp4jd$7ik0$1@dont-email.me>
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
> Thunderbird/102.4.2
>
> All 3 of you use Thunderbird. Not precisely the same version but
> close. I assume
> you have tried to reproduce the steps which originally led you to see
> the defective
> post and you can no longer reproduce them.

I use Thunderbird 102.4.2, the same as David, but never saw the spurious
post that he saw.

However, with both him and Red Floyd claiming to have seen it, I see no
plausible reason to disbelieve them. I would not be surprised if the
cleanup for such a glitch would have erased the evidence that it had
occurred (I am not suggesting any attempt to hide the evidence, just a
normal clean-up after a mess occurs).
My opinion of Bonita's competence is low, and my opinion of her social
skills is even lower. However, I don't see any plausible reason for her
to fake this. My own first assumption, had I seen it, would have been
that he was posting to two different newsgroups using two different
identities, and slipped up somehow. Therefore, I won't fault her for
failing to consider the possibility of a server glitch instead.

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#88813 — Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-01-24 20:42 +0100
SubjectRe: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)
Message-ID<tqpcb2$8v5p$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88810
On 24/01/2023 19:30, James Kuyper wrote:
> 
> I use Thunderbird 102.4.2, the same as David, but never saw the spurious
> post that he saw.
> 
> However, with both him and Red Floyd claiming to have seen it, I see no
> plausible reason to disbelieve them. I would not be surprised if the
> cleanup for such a glitch would have erased the evidence that it had
> occurred (I am not suggesting any attempt to hide the evidence, just a
> normal clean-up after a mess occurs).
> My opinion of Bonita's competence is low, and my opinion of her social
> skills is even lower. However, I don't see any plausible reason for her
> to fake this. My own first assumption, had I seen it, would have been
> that he was posting to two different newsgroups using two different
("he" being Muttley in this context, I presume?)
> identities, and slipped up somehow. Therefore, I won't fault her for
> failing to consider the possibility of a server glitch instead.
> 

That is exactly how I see it.


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#88814 — Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-01-24 20:46 +0100
SubjectRe: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)
Message-ID<tqpcje$8v5p$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88809
On 24/01/2023 18:47, Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:20:19 +0100
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>> It is quite clear that there has been a glitch on the
>> news.eternal-september.org server.  Somehow, a message body from
>> rec.arts.books has been crosslinked, was delivered as though it matched
>> the normal-looking pre-downloaded header in the thread.  (I'm guessing
>> Muttley actually made a post in the original thread, but I am unable to
>> see the real message body.)  The glitch appears to be limited to
>> news.eternal-september.org - other users of that server have said they
>> saw it, while it did not appear on other servers.  People have reported
>> the existence of the rambling essay post in rec.arts.books, made by Ilya
>> Shambat - it was a real post, but on news.eternal-september.org the
>> message body was accidentally attached to the wrong header summaries for
>> comp.lang.c++.
>>
>> Usenet server glitches are rare - client glitches are more likely.  The
>> same glitch occurring for at least three different people is, however,
>> highly unlikely.
> 
> It could be a Thunderbird issue. Note the following :
> 
> All 3 of you use Thunderbird. Not precisely the same version but close. I assume
> you have tried to reproduce the steps which originally led you to see the defective
> post and you can no longer reproduce them.
> 

You are correct that we all use Thunderbird, and it is definitely 
something I considered.  More relevantly, however, we all use 
news.eternal-september.org.  And I have just tested using a clean 
installation of pan as an alternative newsreader, and seen exactly the 
same effect.

I don't know why you think I can no longer reproduce the effect of the 
broken post - I have made no such suggestion, precisely because I /can/ 
replicate it.  I still see it on two different computers with 
Thunderbird, and now also with Pan.

For convenience, I have taken a screenshot of the effect.  I have not 
used this site "paste.pics" before, and I apologise if there are 
unwanted adverts or other effects.  If you are sceptical of clicking the 
link, then I can happily email the screenshot.  But it seems a quick and 
easy way to make a link to the screenshot.

<https://paste.pics/b4149f38abb4e210da0a71886714d014>

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#88817 — Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2023-01-24 19:56 +0000
SubjectRe: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)
Message-ID<TJWzL.46470$4jN7.16928@fx02.iad>
In reply to#88814
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>On 24/01/2023 18:47, Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:20:19 +0100
>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>>> It is quite clear that there has been a glitch on the
>>> news.eternal-september.org server.  Somehow, a message body from
>>> rec.arts.books has been crosslinked, was delivered as though it matched
>>> the normal-looking pre-downloaded header in the thread.  (I'm guessing
>>> Muttley actually made a post in the original thread, but I am unable to
>>> see the real message body.)  The glitch appears to be limited to
>>> news.eternal-september.org - other users of that server have said they
>>> saw it, while it did not appear on other servers.  People have reported
>>> the existence of the rambling essay post in rec.arts.books, made by Ilya
>>> Shambat - it was a real post, but on news.eternal-september.org the
>>> message body was accidentally attached to the wrong header summaries for
>>> comp.lang.c++.
>>>
>>> Usenet server glitches are rare - client glitches are more likely.  The
>>> same glitch occurring for at least three different people is, however,
>>> highly unlikely.
>> 
>> It could be a Thunderbird issue. Note the following :
>> 
>> All 3 of you use Thunderbird. Not precisely the same version but close. I assume
>> you have tried to reproduce the steps which originally led you to see the defective
>> post and you can no longer reproduce them.
>> 
>
>You are correct that we all use Thunderbird, and it is definitely 
>something I considered.  More relevantly, however, we all use 
>news.eternal-september.org.  And I have just tested using a clean 
>installation of pan as an alternative newsreader, and seen exactly the 
>same effect.
>
>I don't know why you think I can no longer reproduce the effect of the 
>broken post - I have made no such suggestion, precisely because I /can/ 
>replicate it.  I still see it on two different computers with 
>Thunderbird, and now also with Pan.
>
>For convenience, I have taken a screenshot of the effect.  I have not 
>used this site "paste.pics" before, and I apologise if there are 
>unwanted adverts or other effects.  If you are sceptical of clicking the 
>link, then I can happily email the screenshot.  But it seems a quick and 
>easy way to make a link to the screenshot.
>
><https://paste.pics/b4149f38abb4e210da0a71886714d014>

Mea Culpa, you are correct that eternel-september has glitched
the body of that post.    My NNTP provider provides the correct
body for that post.

Path: not-for-mail
^From: Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++
Subject: Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2023 09:31:52 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <tqb2m7$1aqa$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References:  <todbqe$16sg$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tpdfp6$3osch$1@dont-email.me>
	<tpdim3$3p3kb$1@dont-email.me> <tpgsar$5mge$1@dont-email.me>
	<tphg58$866f$1@dont-email.me> <tpr12i$1i7r6$1@dont-email.me>
	<tq14n7$2cgbf$1@dont-email.me> <tq1770$2ch5a$2@dont-email.me>
	<ee5874c7-be6d-4bc5-902b-1a04bfa7003en@googlegroups.com>
	<tq32sn$2lmca$1@dont-email.me> <tq34ui$2lmca$2@dont-email.me>
	<tq3g9r$2nhg2$1@dont-email.me> <tq3k8q$2ngf9$1@dont-email.me>
	<tq3uhs$16if$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tq4an1$2s02t$1@dont-email.me>
	<tq5ln0$35a9d$1@dont-email.me> <tq5prq$1u45$1@gioia.aioe.org>
	<tq66tg$38bg3$1@dont-email.me>
	<3d614abf-c869-4288-8837-2a7e9c11050bn@googlegroups.com>
	<tq6g0v$39t2c$1@dont-email.me> <tq6iht$39uah$1@dont-email.me>
	<tq6kpf$1n24$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tq6l7g$3ap58$1@dont-email.me>
	<tq8dpr$c91$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tq8op8$t160$1@dont-email.me>
	<tq9605$1mq6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tq966l$v9v8$1@dont-email.me>
	<tq96f8$1upf$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tq98fa$vli9$1@dont-email.me>
	<tq99d0$1ece$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tq99tp$vtqp$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="43850";
 posting-host="QImplQW63EVMF2Hp+OxW0A.user.gioia.aioe.org";
 mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
X-Received-Bytes: 2484

On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 18:23:55 +0100
Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote:
>Am 18.01.2023 um 18:14 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
>
>> I was simply making a point that if you don't care about actual randomness
>> then standard RPGs are fine.
>
>With that ?
>
>| I'll say again - there is no such thing as random for formula generated
>| "random" number sequences. Given the same start conditions the same 
>sequence
>| will be generated whether its 2^19937 or 2^infinity. You'd be better 
>off using
>| /dev/random, at least its entropy comes from nominally external sources so
>| is unpredictable in a busy enviroment.
>
>Absolutely not.

Really? How would go about predicting what packets will arrive on the network
or when a user will press a key then?
>

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#88818 — Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)

FromManu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid>
Date2023-01-24 22:00 +0000
SubjectRe: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)
Message-ID<tqpjms$acaa$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88817
On 24/01/2023 19:56, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
> Mea Culpa, you are correct that eternel-september has glitched
> the body of that post.    My NNTP provider provides the correct
> body for that post.
The cross-post was created by Bonita Montero according to the headings 
pasted below. I checked it in "rec.arts.books" newsgroup and the first 
post under "Compute Unique Numbers in a Set" was by Bonita in which she 
said "Are you the twin-brother of Amine Moulay Ramdane ?". She didn't 
add anything relevant to the Unique numbers in that post.

I don't think there is anything to suggest that there was a server 
glitch but E-S did have some problems in the last two weeks when some 
posts went missing but it has nothing to say that headers or bodies of 
the posts were changed. I use E-S from time to time when I am looking 
for something

Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,comp.lang.c++
Subject: Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2023 15:42:54 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <tqbkrr$1ja1c$1@dont-email.me>
References: <36403165-3cf1-4b73-8ad1-da339b960339n@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2023 14:42:03 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="d60884746d895ed8ca47bc72fc0457ae";
	logging-data="1681452"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18J6P2KH2llFhvWVE1iFJYe+tuBgVnwBzU="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
  Thunderbird/102.6.1
Cancel-Lock: sha1:uQB3MZbITntrXxJyecyiI2kbvjs=
In-Reply-To: <36403165-3cf1-4b73-8ad1-da339b960339n@googlegroups.com>
Content-Language: de-DE
Xref: reader01.eternal-september.org rec.arts.books:26567 comp.lang.c++:137665






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#88819 — Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-01-25 00:00 +0100
SubjectRe: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)
Message-ID<tqpnuu$avv1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88818
On 24/01/2023 23:00, Manu Raju wrote:
> On 24/01/2023 19:56, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>
>> Mea Culpa, you are correct that eternel-september has glitched
>> the body of that post.    My NNTP provider provides the correct
>> body for that post.
> The cross-post was created by Bonita Montero according to the headings
> pasted below. I checked it in "rec.arts.books" newsgroup and the first
> post under "Compute Unique Numbers in a Set" was by Bonita in which she
> said "Are you the twin-brother of Amine Moulay Ramdane ?". She didn't
> add anything relevant to the Unique numbers in that post.
> 
> I don't think there is anything to suggest that there was a server
> glitch but E-S did have some problems in the last two weeks when some
> posts went missing but it has nothing to say that headers or bodies of
> the posts were changed. I use E-S from time to time when I am looking
> for something
> 
Of all the things said in this thread, I find it surprising that so many 
people are again and again focusing on the wrong thing.

Bonita made the post you refer to.  No one is in any doubt about that. 
It is not an issue - she made a post, cross-posted to comp.lang.c++ and 
rec.arts.books.  It was a normal post - no server glitches or any other 
nonsense.

The issue is the post that Bonita replied to when she made that post. 
It is /that/ post that was special.  On news.eternal-september.org, the 
headers said it was a post from Muttley in comp.lang.c++ as part of the 
conversation they'd been having.  On all other servers, the message body 
matched that and had a post from Muttley.  But on 
news.eternal-september.org, the message body sent by the server was for 
a post in rec.arts.books.  Bonita assumed that /Muttley/ had tried to 
make the rambling essay post to rec.arts.books, but had got confused and 
sent it to comp.lang.c++ instead.  (I thought so too, until I realised 
later that it was a server glitch.)  To most people, her own post looked 
confused and possibly malicious.

It would be helpful if people read the information about what happened - 
I've explained it often enough.  I've posted a screenshot link.  I've 
posted instructions about how you can see the problem for yourself.  It 
was a server glitch.

Now, it is possible that someone from news.admin.net-abuse.usenet can 
give some useful insight into how the glitch could have occurred, or if 
such things have happened before, or if it should be reported back to 
news.eternal-september.org.  That would be useful.  Telling us again 
that Bonita made the post that everyone knows Bonita made, is less useful.

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#88823 — Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities

Fromsnipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe)
Date2023-01-25 00:17 +0000
SubjectRe: Server glitch vs other possibilities
Message-ID<1q5371l.1vic30v1j6llwlN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>
In reply to#88819
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
  
[...]  
  
> Now, it is possible that someone from news.admin.net-abuse.usenet can
> give some useful insight into how the glitch could have occurred, or if
> such things have happened before, or if it should be reported back to
> news.eternal-september.org.  That would be useful.  Telling us again 
>  
  
If you read e-s.support you would know the definitive answer.  
AIUI the overview database became desynchronised from the 
main db (I don't know why).  Ray, the admin, took the server 
down for three hours to resynchronise.  See:-  
  
Message-ID: <m27cxipaip.fsf@raybanana.net>  
  
<http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=167460564300>  
  
-- 
^Ï^.       Sn!pe   –   My pet rock Gordon just is.    

   "Germany is the leading European Power."  
                      ~ Slava Ukraini ~

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#88832 — Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-01-25 09:43 +0100
SubjectRe: Server glitch vs other possibilities
Message-ID<tqqq2u$jb4t$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88823
On 25/01/2023 01:17, Sn!pe wrote:
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>    
> [...]
>    
>> Now, it is possible that someone from news.admin.net-abuse.usenet can
>> give some useful insight into how the glitch could have occurred, or if
>> such things have happened before, or if it should be reported back to
>> news.eternal-september.org.  That would be useful.  Telling us again
>>   
>    
> If you read e-s.support you would know the definitive answer.
> AIUI the overview database became desynchronised from the
> main db (I don't know why).  Ray, the admin, took the server
> down for three hours to resynchronise.  See:-
>    
> Message-ID: <m27cxipaip.fsf@raybanana.net>
>    
> <http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=167460564300>
>    

Thanks for that.  That confirms the matter - it was a server glitch, 
which confused people and led to inappropriate posts, misunderstandings 
and unfounded accusations.  And the newsserver admin is dealing with it.

I'd rather not get involved in the e-s.support group - it is not 
something I am particularly interested in or knowledgeable about.  But 
if you think anything I wrote previously in this thread describing the 
symptoms, or the screenshot I posted, would be of any help to Ray then 
please feel free to pass it on to him.

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#88835 — Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)

FromDavid Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
Date2023-01-25 10:39 -0600
SubjectRe: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)
Message-ID<q65rqq1r-orn9-642s-ns2s-574pppos854o@zvaqfcevat.pbz>
In reply to#88814
On Tuesday, 24 January 2023 20:46 +0100, 
 in article <tqpcje$8v5p$3@dont-email.me>, 
 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

> On 24/01/2023 18:47, Spiros Bousbouras wrote:

>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:20:19 +0100
>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

>>> It is quite clear that there has been a glitch on the
>>> news.eternal-september.org server. [...]

>>> Usenet server glitches are rare - client glitches are more likely.  
>>> The same glitch occurring for at least three different people is, 
>>> however, highly unlikely.

>> It could be a Thunderbird issue. Note the following :

>> All 3 of you use Thunderbird. Not precisely the same version but 
>> close. I assume you have tried to reproduce the steps which 
>> originally led you to see the defective post and you can no longer 
>> reproduce them.

> You are correct that we all use Thunderbird, and it is definitely 
> something I considered.  More relevantly, however, we all use 
> news.eternal-september.org. And I have just tested using a clean 
> installation of pan as an alternative newsreader, and seen exactly 
> the same effect.

> I don't know why you think I can no longer reproduce the effect of 
> the broken post - I have made no such suggestion, precisely because 
> I /can/ replicate it. I still see it on two different computers with 
> Thunderbird, and now also with Pan.

> For convenience, I have taken a screenshot of the effect.  I have 
> not used this site "paste.pics" before, and I apologise if there are 
> unwanted adverts or other effects.  If you are sceptical of clicking 
> the link, then I can happily email the screenshot.  But it seems a 
> quick and easy way to make a link to the screenshot.

> <https://paste.pics/b4149f38abb4e210da0a71886714d014>

It appears that Thunderbird and/or Pan is/are playing silly buggers 
with threading.  We'd have a better idea of what was going on, if the 
display headers included the Newsgroups information.

Better still, what do you see, when you look at the headers?  What do 
you see in the Newsgroups header?  What do you see in the Xref header?  
(The Xref header is added by the NNTP server, from which the article 
is being retrieved.)

If only rec.arts.books is listed in the Xref header, that article 
appears only there on the ES spool.  If comp.lang.c++ is also 
included, it indicates a server side error.

Speaking of Thunderbird flakiness, while "Re. Compu..." appears in the 
article list, while the Subject of the displayed article clearly shows 
"Change and Choice."

-- 
David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
 Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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#88836 — Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu>
Date2023-01-25 14:51 -0500
SubjectRe: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)
Message-ID<tqs181$pf5a$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88835
On 1/25/23 11:39, David Ritz wrote:
> On Tuesday, 24 January 2023 20:46 +0100, in article
> <tqpcje$8v5p$3@dont-email.me>, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
> wrote:
...
>> You are correct that we all use Thunderbird, and it is definitely
>> something I considered. More relevantly, however, we all use
>> news.eternal-september.org. And I have just tested using a clean
>> installation of pan as an alternative newsreader, and seen exactly
>> the same effect.
>
>> I don't know why you think I can no longer reproduce the effect of
>> the broken post - I have made no such suggestion, precisely because I
>> /can/ replicate it. I still see it on two different computers with
>> Thunderbird, and now also with Pan.
>
>> For convenience, I have taken a screenshot of the effect. I have not
>> used this site "paste.pics" before, and I apologise if there are
>> unwanted adverts or other effects. If you are sceptical of clicking
>> the link, then I can happily email the screenshot. But it seems a
>> quick and easy way to make a link to the screenshot.
>
>> <https://paste.pics/b4149f38abb4e210da0a71886714d014>
>
> It appears that Thunderbird and/or Pan is/are playing silly buggers
> with threading. We'd have a better idea of what was going on, if the
> display headers included the Newsgroups information.


The level of the headers displayed is adjustable. In the screenshot he
posted, the little down arrow next the the headers shown would have
caused it to expand, to show the newsgroups. It would have been better
if David had done so, and expanded the header section to make sure all
headers were visible. However, it is sufficient to note that the
newsgroup currently being viewed is displayed at the top of the window,
and the screen shot he posted makes it clear that the newsgroup is
comp.lang.c++. If Bonita saw the same thing, she would have had no
reason to suspect that the message body had actually been posted to a
different newsgroup.

If you want to talk about what he could have done, he could have
configured the newsgroup section to show a larger selection of the
message headers. Thunderbird allows you to select about 8 of the message
headers for display.

...
> Speaking of Thunderbird flakiness, while "Re. Compu..." appears in the
> article list, while the Subject of the displayed article clearly shows
> "Change and Choice."

That's not Thunderbird flakiness, that's Thunderbird responding to the
server glitch. All of the information in the newsgroup section at the
top of the window is from the header summary. The highlighted line
describes Muttley's message. The four headers on display at the top of
the message section at the bottom of the window are from the message
body, which is from Ilya Shambat's message. You can see that the first
three (Subject, Author, and Date) do not match what's shown in the
newsgroup section. The header summary is supposed to match the message
body; it's not a bug if Thunderbird deals poorly with a case that's not
supposed to happen. Arguably, showing both sets of information is more
useful, because it makes it easier to notice that there's a discrepancy.

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#88842 — Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-01-26 00:00 +0100
SubjectRe: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)
Message-ID<tqscad$rpkn$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88835
On 25/01/2023 17:39, David Ritz wrote:
> On Tuesday, 24 January 2023 20:46 +0100,
>   in article <tqpcje$8v5p$3@dont-email.me>,
>   David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> 

>> <https://paste.pics/b4149f38abb4e210da0a71886714d014>
> 
> It appears that Thunderbird and/or Pan is/are playing silly buggers
> with threading.  We'd have a better idea of what was going on, if the
> display headers included the Newsgroups information.
> 

The clients are not playing silly buggers.  Do you /really/ think two 
completely independent newsclients would show the same incorrect 
information about one - and only one - particular article in one thread 
in one group from one server, and get everything else right (including 
getting the article right when using a different newsserver) ?

I'm at a loss to comprehend the level of denialism here.


> Better still, what do you see, when you look at the headers?  What do
> you see in the Newsgroups header?  What do you see in the Xref header?
> (The Xref header is added by the NNTP server, from which the article
> is being retrieved.)
> 

I recommend you check these things for yourself.

However, I will do my best to answer your questions.

In the overview, or "header" pane of pan, the article in question is 
says it is from Muttley with the subject "Re: Compute Unique Numbers in 
a Set".  The message id is "tqb2m7$1aqa$1@gioia.aioe.org".  The 
timestamp is 19.01.2023 10:31, and it is 22 lines.

Clicking on that gives the full article (headers plus body) that 
news.eternal-september.org returns - Message id 
"36403165-3cf1-4b73-8ad1-da339b960339n@googlegroups.com", from Ilya 
Shambat, newsgroups rec.arts.books.  Xref: 
reader01.eternal-september.org rec.arts.books:26566.

Basically, the overview provided by the server (I guess by the "OVER" 
NNTP command) looks fine and appropriate, and is what you'll see from 
other servers.  But the article content (I guess from the "ARTICLE" NNTP 
command) for the message is really a completely different message.

It's the symptoms you'd expect from a mismatch between the overview 
database and the main message database, as mentioned by the 
news.eternal-september.org admin.


> If only rec.arts.books is listed in the Xref header, that article
> appears only there on the ES spool.  If comp.lang.c++ is also
> included, it indicates a server side error.
> 

Only rec.arts.books is there - so there is a server side error.  The 
server should not have returned that message when asked for the article 
with the message id of the comp.lang.c++ header.

> Speaking of Thunderbird flakiness, while "Re. Compu..." appears in the
> article list, while the Subject of the displayed article clearly shows
> "Change and Choice."
> 

It clearly does, yes.  That clearly shows the server has given the wrong 
information.

The client gets the common headers twice for each article.  It gets them 
once from the overview (when the client is "downloading headers"), no 
doubt using the "OVER" command.  It gets them a second time when 
downloading the body of the article (presumably with "ARTICLE").  When 
the server is working correctly, these will contain the same information 
- it therefore does not matter which one the client uses to show the 
subject.

In this case, because of the server glitch, the client gets conflicting 
information.  One set is for one article, the other set is for a 
different article that the server sent by mistake.

Nothing here indicates Thunderbird flakiness or flaws - it behaves 
identically to Pan, and it is entirely correct and sensible behaviour 
that results from trusting the server to give correct information.


If you want a better idea of what is going on, make an account on 
news.eternal-september.org and try it yourself.  It is surely less 
effort than asking these things.

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#88846 — Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)

FromSpiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com>
Date2023-01-25 23:49 +0000
SubjectRe: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)
Message-ID<jUh19v5TQgYOEXfdV@bongo-ra.co>
In reply to#88842
On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 00:00:29 +0100
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> In the overview, or "header" pane of pan, the article in question is 
> says it is from Muttley with the subject "Re: Compute Unique Numbers in 
> a Set".  The message id is "tqb2m7$1aqa$1@gioia.aioe.org".  The 
> timestamp is 19.01.2023 10:31, and it is 22 lines.

I note that  <tqb2m7$1aqa$1@gioia.aioe.org>  no longer exists on
news.eternal-september.org .It exists on other servers , for example
news.cyber23.de .

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#88854 — Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-01-26 09:23 +0100
SubjectRe: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)
Message-ID<tqtdah$13som$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88846
On 26/01/2023 00:49, Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 00:00:29 +0100
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>> In the overview, or "header" pane of pan, the article in question is
>> says it is from Muttley with the subject "Re: Compute Unique Numbers in
>> a Set".  The message id is "tqb2m7$1aqa$1@gioia.aioe.org".  The
>> timestamp is 19.01.2023 10:31, and it is 22 lines.
> 
> I note that  <tqb2m7$1aqa$1@gioia.aioe.org>  no longer exists on
> news.eternal-september.org .It exists on other servers , for example
> news.cyber23.de .

This could be a result of the resynchronisation fix done on the server. 
If the overview database and main database are out of sync, and they get 
resynchronised, then one of them has to change.  But I have no idea of 
the details of how that might be done.

I doubt if the loss of Muttley's real message will be a big blow to 
comp.lang.c++ followers using news.eternal-september.org.

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#88848 — Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)

FromiKook <iKook@gmail.com>
Date2023-01-26 02:27 +0000
SubjectRe: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)
Message-ID<tqsok4$34efi$1@paganini.bofh.team>
In reply to#88842
On 25/01/2023 23:00, David Brown wrote:
>
> I recommend you check these things for yourself.

I have done it on MixMin. See below
>
> However, I will do my best to answer your questions.
>
> In the overview, or "header" pane of pan, the article in question is 
> says it is from Muttley with the subject "Re: Compute Unique Numbers 
> in a Set".  The message id is "tqb2m7$1aqa$1@gioia.aioe.org".  The 
> timestamp is 19.01.2023 10:31, and it is 22 lines.
>
> Clicking on that gives the full article (headers plus body) that 
> news.eternal-september.org returns - Message id 
> "36403165-3cf1-4b73-8ad1-da339b960339n@googlegroups.com", from Ilya 
> Shambat, newsgroups rec.arts.books.  Xref: 
> reader01.eternal-september.org rec.arts.books:26566.

No it's not. See the full message here:

> Path: news.mixmin.net!aioe.org!QImplQW63EVMF2Hp+OxW0A.user.46.165.242.91.POSTED!not-for-mail
> From: Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++
> Subject: Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set
> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2023 09:31:52 -0000 (UTC)
> Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
> Message-ID: <tqb2m7$1aqa$1@gioia.aioe.org>
> References: <todbqe$16sg$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tpdfp6$3osch$1@dont-email.me>
>   <tpdim3$3p3kb$1@dont-email.me> <tpgsar$5mge$1@dont-email.me>
>   <tphg58$866f$1@dont-email.me> <tpr12i$1i7r6$1@dont-email.me>
>   <tq14n7$2cgbf$1@dont-email.me> <tq1770$2ch5a$2@dont-email.me>
>   <ee5874c7-be6d-4bc5-902b-1a04bfa7003en@googlegroups.com>
>   <tq32sn$2lmca$1@dont-email.me> <tq34ui$2lmca$2@dont-email.me>
>   <tq3g9r$2nhg2$1@dont-email.me> <tq3k8q$2ngf9$1@dont-email.me>
>   <tq3uhs$16if$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tq4an1$2s02t$1@dont-email.me>
>   <tq5ln0$35a9d$1@dont-email.me> <tq5prq$1u45$1@gioia.aioe.org>
>   <tq66tg$38bg3$1@dont-email.me>
>   <3d614abf-c869-4288-8837-2a7e9c11050bn@googlegroups.com>
>   <tq6g0v$39t2c$1@dont-email.me> <tq6iht$39uah$1@dont-email.me>
>   <tq6kpf$1n24$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tq6l7g$3ap58$1@dont-email.me>
>   <tq8dpr$c91$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tq8op8$t160$1@dont-email.me>
>   <tq9605$1mq6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tq966l$v9v8$1@dont-email.me>
>   <tq96f8$1upf$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tq98fa$vli9$1@dont-email.me>
>   <tq99d0$1ece$1@gioia.aioe.org>
>   <tq99tp$vtqp$1@dont-email.me>
> Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="43850"; posting-host="QImplQW63EVMF2Hp+OxW0A.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
> X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
> Xref: news.mixmin.net comp.lang.c++:206390
>
> On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 18:23:55 +0100
> Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Am 18.01.2023 um 18:14 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
> >
> >> I was simply making a point that if you don't care about actual randomness
> >> then standard RPGs are fine.
> >
> >With that ?
> >
> >| I'll say again - there is no such thing as random for formula generated
> >| "random" number sequences. Given the same start conditions the same 
> >sequence
> >| will be generated whether its 2^19937 or 2^infinity. You'd be better 
> >off using
> >| /dev/random, at least its entropy comes from nominally external sources so
> >| is unpredictable in a busy enviroment.
> >
> >Absolutely not.
>
> Really? How would go about predicting what packets will arrive on the network
> or when a user will press a key then?
>

Is there anything else we could check for ourselves to verify your claims?


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#88852 — Re: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu>
Date2023-01-25 23:55 -0500
SubjectRe: Server glitch vs other possibilities (Was : Compute Unique Numbers in a Set)
Message-ID<tqt14i$11og6$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88848
On 1/25/23 21:27, iKook wrote:
> On 25/01/2023 23:00, David Brown wrote:
>>
>> I recommend you check these things for yourself.
> 
> I have done it on MixMin. See below
>>
>> However, I will do my best to answer your questions.
>>
>> In the overview, or "header" pane of pan, the article in question is 
>> says it is from Muttley with the subject "Re: Compute Unique Numbers 
>> in a Set".  The message id is "tqb2m7$1aqa$1@gioia.aioe.org".  The 
>> timestamp is 19.01.2023 10:31, and it is 22 lines.
>>
>> Clicking on that gives the full article (headers plus body) that 
>> news.eternal-september.org returns - Message id 
>> "36403165-3cf1-4b73-8ad1-da339b960339n@googlegroups.com", from Ilya 
>> Shambat, newsgroups rec.arts.books.  Xref: 
>> reader01.eternal-september.org rec.arts.books:26566.
> 
> No it's not. See the full message here:
> 
>> Path: news.mixmin.net!aioe.org!QImplQW63EVMF2Hp+OxW0A.user.46.165.242.91.POSTED!not-for-mail
>> From: Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>> Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++
>> Subject: Re: Compute Unique Numbers in a Set
>> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2023 09:31:52 -0000 (UTC)
>> Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
>> Message-ID: <tqb2m7$1aqa$1@gioia.aioe.org>
>> References: <todbqe$16sg$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tpdfp6$3osch$1@dont-email.me>
>>   <tpdim3$3p3kb$1@dont-email.me> <tpgsar$5mge$1@dont-email.me>
>>   <tphg58$866f$1@dont-email.me> <tpr12i$1i7r6$1@dont-email.me>
>>   <tq14n7$2cgbf$1@dont-email.me> <tq1770$2ch5a$2@dont-email.me>
>>   <ee5874c7-be6d-4bc5-902b-1a04bfa7003en@googlegroups.com>
>>   <tq32sn$2lmca$1@dont-email.me> <tq34ui$2lmca$2@dont-email.me>
>>   <tq3g9r$2nhg2$1@dont-email.me> <tq3k8q$2ngf9$1@dont-email.me>
>>   <tq3uhs$16if$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tq4an1$2s02t$1@dont-email.me>
>>   <tq5ln0$35a9d$1@dont-email.me> <tq5prq$1u45$1@gioia.aioe.org>
>>   <tq66tg$38bg3$1@dont-email.me>
>>   <3d614abf-c869-4288-8837-2a7e9c11050bn@googlegroups.com>
>>   <tq6g0v$39t2c$1@dont-email.me> <tq6iht$39uah$1@dont-email.me>
>>   <tq6kpf$1n24$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tq6l7g$3ap58$1@dont-email.me>
>>   <tq8dpr$c91$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tq8op8$t160$1@dont-email.me>
>>   <tq9605$1mq6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tq966l$v9v8$1@dont-email.me>
>>   <tq96f8$1upf$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tq98fa$vli9$1@dont-email.me>
>>   <tq99d0$1ece$1@gioia.aioe.org>
>>   <tq99tp$vtqp$1@dont-email.me>
>> Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="43850"; posting-host="QImplQW63EVMF2Hp+OxW0A.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
>> X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
>> Xref: news.mixmin.net comp.lang.c++:206390

That's not particularly surprising. If there was indeed a server glitch,
it's entirely plausible that sooner or later the glitch might eventually
get fixed.

...
>> Really? How would go about predicting what packets will arrive on the network
>> or when a user will press a key then?
>>
> 
> Is there anything else we could check for ourselves to verify your claims?

Is there really any need to ask for more information? Do you have any
good reason to think David was lying about what he found?

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