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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #86221 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2022-09-09 12:49 -0500 |
| Last post | 2022-09-22 19:21 +0000 |
| Articles | 12 on this page of 92 — 19 participants |
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"Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-09-09 12:49 -0500
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-09 19:03 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-10 18:16 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-10 17:04 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-11 08:29 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-09-24 16:24 +0200
C++ is for real, C is just a toy (Was: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference") gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-09-24 15:54 +0000
Re: C++ is for real, C is just a toy (Was: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference") Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-24 18:07 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-11 08:29 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 11:16 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-11 09:44 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 13:42 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-11 15:44 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 17:55 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-11 16:17 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 18:22 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 12:41 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-12 06:10 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-09-12 00:27 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-09-12 09:18 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-12 09:42 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-09-12 12:05 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-12 12:12 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-09-24 16:31 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-12 15:58 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-12 18:48 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-09-12 20:32 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-13 13:27 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Andreas Kempe <kempe@lysator.liu.se> - 2022-09-13 22:33 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-14 06:04 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Andreas Kempe <kempe@lysator.liu.se> - 2022-09-14 10:38 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-14 12:21 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-15 12:15 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-16 06:02 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-16 10:37 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-16 11:05 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-16 13:18 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-16 16:00 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-16 15:16 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-18 12:13 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-19 05:45 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-19 08:33 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-19 10:41 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-19 13:48 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-19 15:22 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-16 13:10 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-19 05:51 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-19 12:27 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-09-16 11:19 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-09-16 06:56 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-16 14:29 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-16 17:04 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-16 08:24 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-09-16 09:00 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2022-09-15 00:54 +0100
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-15 05:31 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2022-09-15 10:19 +0100
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-22 12:41 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-14 09:16 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Andreas Kempe <kempe@lysator.liu.se> - 2022-09-14 10:29 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-14 15:55 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Andreas Kempe <kempe@lysator.liu.se> - 2022-09-16 20:16 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-09-16 16:55 -0500
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-16 22:21 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Andreas Kempe <kempe@lysator.liu.se> - 2022-09-17 14:52 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-19 06:06 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-18 12:34 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-18 12:22 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-19 06:11 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-19 10:14 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-14 12:12 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-14 15:58 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-13 06:47 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-13 13:29 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-14 05:56 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-14 09:37 +0000
boost::intrusive. Was: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-11 09:51 -0700
Re: boost::intrusive. Was: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 18:55 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-11 16:26 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 18:35 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Opus <ifonly@youknew.org> - 2022-09-12 19:22 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2022-09-22 19:24 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-10 12:56 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-10 15:53 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 07:07 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 16:17 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-11 13:50 +0200
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-11 05:53 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-12 05:47 +0000
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2022-09-11 00:01 +0100
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-10 16:26 -0700
Re: "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2022-09-22 19:21 +0000
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| From | Opus <ifonly@youknew.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-12 19:22 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tfnpti$cb6$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #86252 |
Le 11/09/2022 à 11:16, Bonita Montero a écrit : > Am 11.09.2022 um 10:29 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com: >> On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 18:16:45 +0200 >> Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Am 09.09.2022 um 19:49 schrieb Lynn McGuire: >>>> "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" >>>> >>>> >>> https://www.i-programmer.info/news/184-cc/15705-richard-stallman-announces-c-re >>> ference.html >>>> >>>> "Richard Stallman (RMS) is a controversial figure - you either like or >>>> dislike him - but you have to assume he knows his C. So an announcement >>>> that he has a book on the subject is interesting." >>>> >>>> "As you might guess, being the founder of the Free Software Foundation, >>>> Stallman's book is free to download, but at this stage you will have to >>>> do some work if you want to read it and it seems to be still in beta. >>>> The text contains requests for comments." >>>> >>>> I did not know that RS wrote the first gcc compiler. >>>> >>>> Lynn >>> >>> C is a good language to learn programming >>> but actually not to solve real tasks. >> >> Real tasks such as most OS kernels and all the GNU command line >> utilities? > > That's a matter of the writer's mindset and tradition and > not of necessities. What's exactly the point of keeping trolling the comp.lang.c group while carefully cross-posting to the c++ one just in case we didn't get it (and probably to show your c++ peers that you're a faithful promoter)? What do you get from it and why is it that people keep replying? That's polluting a good half of the new posts. Good lord.
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| From | legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-22 19:24 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <tgicpr$1r1be$2@news.xmission.com> |
| In reply to | #86290 |
[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
Opus <ifonly@youknew.org> spake the secret code
<tfnpti$cb6$1@gioia.aioe.org> thusly:
>What's exactly the point of keeping trolling [...]
Why, to improve your KILL file, naturally.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
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| From | Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-10 12:56 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <08f03ac0-09a4-471a-9f40-061b369029bdn@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #86221 |
On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 8:49:42 PM UTC+3, Lynn McGuire wrote: > "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" > > https://www.i-programmer.info/news/184-cc/15705-richard-stallman-announces-c-reference.html > > "Richard Stallman (RMS) is a controversial figure - you either like or > dislike him - but you have to assume he knows his C. So an announcement > that he has a book on the subject is interesting." > > "As you might guess, being the founder of the Free Software Foundation, > Stallman's book is free to download, but at this stage you will have to > do some work if you want to read it and it seems to be still in beta. > The text contains requests for comments." > > I did not know that RS wrote the first gcc compiler. > > Lynn I don't know about Linux, but on Windows in order to read his book, which, supposedly, weigh 1 or 5 MB, one needs to download ~200 MB worth of software that expands to ~900 MB of disk space. And that's would be sufficient only if you already have msys2, gcc, python, make and binutils installed. Which is true in case of myself, but but wrong for 99% of Windows users. So, for those 99% there is a need to install another 2 or 5 GB. I wonder, if RMS is doing it intentionally or out of ignorance.
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| From | Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-10 15:53 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <875yhukfid.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> |
| In reply to | #86243 |
Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes:
> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 8:49:42 PM UTC+3, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference"
>>
>> https://www.i-programmer.info/news/184-cc/15705-richard-stallman-announces-c-reference.html
[...]
>
> I don't know about Linux, but on Windows in order to read his book,
> which, supposedly, weigh 1 or 5 MB, one needs to download ~200 MB
> worth of software that expands to ~900 MB of disk space. And that's
> would be sufficient only if you already have msys2, gcc, python, make
> and binutils installed. Which is true in case of myself, but but wrong
> for 99% of Windows users. So, for those 99% there is a need to install
> another 2 or 5 GB.
>
> I wonder, if RMS is doing it intentionally or out of ignorance.
I wouldn't quite say it's deliberate, but RMS fairly clearly does not
care about Windows or other non-free software. He probably wouldn't go
out of his way to make things difficult on Windows, but I'm reasonably
sure he wouldn't expend any effort to make things easier. He wants
everyone to stop using Windows.
The pdf version is easy to generate *if* you already have the right
infrastructure, and I presume it will become available, which means
Windows users can use it directly.
(Please do not turn this into a debate about the merits of his
opinions.)
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Philips
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */
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| From | "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-11 07:07 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tfjqe3$1quva$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86243 |
On 10 Sep 2022 21:56, Michael S wrote: > On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 8:49:42 PM UTC+3, Lynn McGuire wrote: >> "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" >> >> https://www.i-programmer.info/news/184-cc/15705-richard-stallman-announces-c-reference.html >> >> "Richard Stallman (RMS) is a controversial figure - you either like or >> dislike him - but you have to assume he knows his C. So an announcement >> that he has a book on the subject is interesting." >> >> "As you might guess, being the founder of the Free Software Foundation, >> Stallman's book is free to download, but at this stage you will have to >> do some work if you want to read it and it seems to be still in beta. >> The text contains requests for comments." >> >> I did not know that RS wrote the first gcc compiler. >> >> Lynn > > I don't know about Linux, but on Windows in order to read his book, which, supposedly, > weigh 1 or 5 MB, one needs to download ~200 MB worth of software that expands to > ~900 MB of disk space. And that's would be sufficient only if you already have msys2, > gcc, python, make and binutils installed. Which is true in case of myself, but but wrong > for 99% of Windows users. So, for those 99% there is a need to install another 2 or 5 GB. > > I wonder, if RMS is doing it intentionally or out of ignorance. I typed `bash` in Windows Cmd, to enter Ubuntu in Windows Subsystem for Linux, and followed the given recipe: sudo apt update sudo apt install texlive-latex-extra sudo apt install ghostscript sudo apt install texinfo git clone https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/c-intro-and-ref.git cd c-intro-and-ref makeinfo --html -v c.texi -o c.html --no-split I just changed "html" to "pdf". For some reason it wouldn't accept these commands in one single paste. I had to paste one command at a time. And in typical *nix land fashion each produced an avalanche of installation progress messages, gah. But it worked. :) The generated PDF has a standard bookmarks contents listing, that's nice. --- Just by skimming through the pages I learned that the g++ restriction to Unicode escapes in identifiers, not the Unicode characters themselves, is actually a C restriction, one that I was not aware of. So, g++ implements the C rules, but not the C++ rules. Interesting. - Alf
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| From | Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-11 16:17 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <87leqpijr1.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> |
| In reply to | #86249 |
"Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> writes:
[...]
> I typed `bash` in Windows Cmd, to enter Ubuntu in Windows Subsystem
> for Linux, and followed the given recipe:
>
> sudo apt update
> sudo apt install texlive-latex-extra
> sudo apt install ghostscript
> sudo apt install texinfo
> git clone https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/c-intro-and-ref.git
> cd c-intro-and-ref
> makeinfo --html -v c.texi -o c.html --no-split
>
>
> I just changed "html" to "pdf".
[...]
Thanks for that.
I've found that the provided Makefile doesn't work very well. One minor
point: `make` creates files c, c-1, c-2, and c-3 (no ".info" suffix);
they're usable with the info command: `info ./c`, but it would be more
consistent to name the files c.info, c.info-1, et al. And `make clean`
doesn't delete c-3.
Based on your example above, here's what I use to generate info, pdf,
and html documents, once I have a clone of the repo and all required
tools installed:
makeinfo --pdf -v c.texi -o c-intro-and-ref.pdf --no-split
makeinfo --html -v c.texi -o c-intro-and-ref.html --no-split
makeinfo --info -v c.texi -o c-intro-and-ref.info --no-split
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Philips
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-11 13:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tfki19$1t4lk$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86243 |
On 10/09/2022 21:56, Michael S wrote: > On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 8:49:42 PM UTC+3, Lynn McGuire > wrote: >> "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" >> >> https://www.i-programmer.info/news/184-cc/15705-richard-stallman-announces-c-reference.html >> >> >> "Richard Stallman (RMS) is a controversial figure - you either like or >> dislike him - but you have to assume he knows his C. So an >> announcement that he has a book on the subject is interesting." >> >> "As you might guess, being the founder of the Free Software >> Foundation, Stallman's book is free to download, but at this stage >> you will have to do some work if you want to read it and it seems >> to be still in beta. The text contains requests for comments." >> >> I did not know that RS wrote the first gcc compiler. >> >> Lynn > > I don't know about Linux, but on Windows in order to read his book, > which, supposedly, weigh 1 or 5 MB, one needs to download ~200 MB > worth of software that expands to ~900 MB of disk space. And that's > would be sufficient only if you already have msys2, gcc, python, > make and binutils installed. Which is true in case of myself, but but > wrong for 99% of Windows users. So, for those 99% there is a need to > install another 2 or 5 GB. > > I wonder, if RMS is doing it intentionally or out of ignorance. > Lots of people who write technical books do so using TeX (or something based on TeX - LaTeX, texinfo, etc.). There is nothing that compares to TeX (and its friends), in the right hands, for the quality of the output. And for people who are used to it, it is vastly more efficient in use than word processors or other gui tools. So, do you think he should be using significantly inferior tools just because people using an inferior OS (in his eyes, at least) probably don't have these tools already installed? Of course not. This book is a work in progress, as I understand it. When it is ready, I'm sure you'll be able to view it as a pdf or html on whatever system you like. In the meantime, if you want to see its current state, you have to have the appropriate software.
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| From | Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-11 05:53 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <d5b5a73f-9285-4dde-9b24-2ddcf7a38fc7n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #86255 |
On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 2:50:20 PM UTC+3, David Brown wrote: > On 10/09/2022 21:56, Michael S wrote: > > On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 8:49:42 PM UTC+3, Lynn McGuire > > wrote: > >> "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" > >> > >> https://www.i-programmer.info/news/184-cc/15705-richard-stallman-announces-c-reference.html > >> > >> > >> > "Richard Stallman (RMS) is a controversial figure - you either like or > >> dislike him - but you have to assume he knows his C. So an > >> announcement that he has a book on the subject is interesting." > >> > >> "As you might guess, being the founder of the Free Software > >> Foundation, Stallman's book is free to download, but at this stage > >> you will have to do some work if you want to read it and it seems > >> to be still in beta. The text contains requests for comments." > >> > >> I did not know that RS wrote the first gcc compiler. > >> > >> Lynn > > > > I don't know about Linux, but on Windows in order to read his book, > > which, supposedly, weigh 1 or 5 MB, one needs to download ~200 MB > > worth of software that expands to ~900 MB of disk space. And that's > > would be sufficient only if you already have msys2, gcc, python, > > make and binutils installed. Which is true in case of myself, but but > > wrong for 99% of Windows users. So, for those 99% there is a need to > > install another 2 or 5 GB. > > > > I wonder, if RMS is doing it intentionally or out of ignorance. > > > Lots of people who write technical books do so using TeX (or something > based on TeX - LaTeX, texinfo, etc.). There is nothing that compares to > TeX (and its friends), in the right hands, for the quality of the > output. And for people who are used to it, it is vastly more efficient > in use than word processors or other gui tools. > > So, do you think he should be using significantly inferior tools just > because people using an inferior OS (in his eyes, at least) probably > don't have these tools already installed? Of course not. No, I think that he should periodically check in generated .html or .pdf or both into source control. Once per month sounds like good enough. And at the same time to push it to one of the popular repositories with no0b-friendly front end. Preferably, github, but if his ideological pureness does not allow that then one of several alternatives. Of course, if somebody wants to be totally user-friendly then he would supply one of e-book formats as well, e.g. ideologically acceptable epub. But I realize that in this particular case it is too much to ask. As to word processors, I am in a full agreement with everybody who thinks that word processor format is not any better for distribution of the book than internal format of RMS's tools. I would be equally unhappy with the need to install MS Office or Libre Office as I am with the need to install texlive-latex-extra. > > This book is a work in progress, as I understand it. When it is ready, > I'm sure you'll be able to view it as a pdf or html on whatever system > you like. See, *I* already can see it as pdf or html on whatever system I like. But I care (or pretend to care :-) about less tech-savvy souls. And about wasting Internet bandwidth and disk space. > In the meantime, if you want to see its current state, you > have to have the appropriate software. BTW, I didn't read it and there is approximately zero chance that I's ever read it entirely, but I took a look at some topics and found it (surprise!) rather reasonable in views and competently written.
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| From | Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-12 05:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <tfmh5j$s95$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #86243 |
Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> wrote: > I don't know about Linux, but on Windows in order to read his book, which, supposedly, > weigh 1 or 5 MB, one needs to download ~200 MB worth of software that expands to > ~900 MB of disk space. And that's would be sufficient only if you already have msys2, > gcc, python, make and binutils installed. Which is true in case of myself, but but wrong > for 99% of Windows users. So, for those 99% there is a need to install another 2 or 5 GB. > > I wonder, if RMS is doing it intentionally or out of ignorance. You can read the .texi file directly. It's not like it's some inscrutable highly obfuscated binary format. It's actually significantly more legible than eg. XML.
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| From | Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-11 00:01 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <tfj5lj$1m5em$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86221 |
On 09/09/2022 18:49, Lynn McGuire wrote: > "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference" > > https://www.i-programmer.info/news/184-cc/15705-richard-stallman-announces-c-reference.html > > > "Richard Stallman (RMS) is a controversial figure - you either like or > dislike him - but you have to assume he knows his C. So an > announcement that he has a book on the subject is interesting." > > "As you might guess, being the founder of the Free Software > Foundation, Stallman's book is free to download, but at this stage you > will have to do some work if you want to read it and it seems to be > still in beta. The text contains requests for comments." > > I did not know that RS wrote the first gcc compiler. > > Lynn How is this different from this file? <https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-12.2.0/cpp.pdf>
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| From | Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-10 16:26 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <871qsikdz4.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> |
| In reply to | #86247 |
Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> writes:
> On 09/09/2022 18:49, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> "Richard Stallman Announces C Reference"
>>
>> https://www.i-programmer.info/news/184-cc/15705-richard-stallman-announces-c-reference.html
>>
>>
>> "Richard Stallman (RMS) is a controversial figure - you either like or
>> dislike him - but you have to assume he knows his C. So an
>> announcement that he has a book on the subject is interesting."
>>
>> "As you might guess, being the founder of the Free Software
>> Foundation, Stallman's book is free to download, but at this stage you
>> will have to do some work if you want to read it and it seems to be
>> still in beta. The text contains requests for comments."
>>
>> I did not know that RS wrote the first gcc compiler.
>>
>> Lynn
>
> How is this different from this file?
>
> <https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-12.2.0/cpp.pdf>
That's a manual for the GNU C preprocessor.
This new document is about the C language (with a strong emphasis on the
gcc variant). It's intended to incorporate the preprocessor manual.
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Philips
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */
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| From | legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-22 19:21 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <tgick6$1r1be$1@news.xmission.com> |
| In reply to | #86221 |
[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> spake the secret code
<tffub4$1s3f$1@gioia.aioe.org> thusly:
>"Richard Stallman Announces C Reference"
>
>> It isn't in a common format as GNU TexInfo was used to create it.
I like a lot of the stuff that the GNU Project has done, but TexInfo
is an abomination and a failure. Nobody[*] has adopted it for use
outside of GNU projects.
[*] I'm sure someone will post a link to some dinky project that uses
it, but I'm making a statement fit for human consumption not writing
mathematical axioms.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
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