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“Is C++ Dead?”

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  “Is C++ Dead?” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-03-05 15:19 -0600
    Re: “Is C++ Dead?” wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2026-03-06 08:14 +0800
      Re: “Is C++ Dead?” "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-03-06 12:53 +0800
    Re: “Is C++ Dead?” "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-03-06 12:48 +0800
      Re: “Is C++ Dead?” "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-03-06 13:25 -0800
        Re: “Is C++ Dead?” "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-03-07 13:15 +0800
        Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-07 20:03 +0200
          Re: “Is C++ Dead?” "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 16:26 +0800
            Re: “Is C++ Dead?” David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-03-08 11:49 +0100
              Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 16:46 +0100
                Re: “Is C++ Dead?” David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-03-08 19:22 +0100
                  Re: “Is C++ Dead?” "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 14:38 -0700
                    Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 14:17 +0100
                      Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-03-10 22:47 +0000
                      Re: “Is C++ Dead?” "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 17:07 -0700
              Re: “Is C++ Dead?” "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 14:11 -0700
            Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-03-08 22:54 +0000
      Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Marcel Mueller <news.5.maazl@spamgourmet.org> - 2026-03-09 08:27 +0100
        Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 17:36 -0500
          Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-03-10 13:27 +0000
          Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-03-15 19:13 +0000
            Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-03-15 19:40 +0000
            Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-15 21:15 +0000
              Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 18:15 -0500
            Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 17:33 -0500
              Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-03-16 00:28 +0000
              Re: “Is C++ Dead?” wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 00:53 +0800
            Re: “Is C++ Dead?” George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-03-16 10:31 -0400
              Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-16 17:56 +0200
              Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-03-16 17:06 +0000
                Re: “Is C++ Dead?” George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-03-16 23:00 -0400
                  Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-03-18 00:20 +0000
          Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 19:09 +0100
            Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 14:21 -0500
              Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 20:53 +0100
                Re: “Is C++ Dead?” "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 13:28 -0700
                Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 16:45 -0500
              Re: Re: “Is C++ Dead?” scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-18 21:24 +0000
                Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 16:41 -0500
                  Re: “Is C++ Dead?” "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 19:58 -0700
                    Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 00:33 -0500
                      Re: “Is C++ Dead?” "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 22:50 -0700
                    Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 10:40 +0100
                      Re: “Is C++ Dead?” "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 12:26 -0700
                  Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 10:28 +0100
                Re: “Is C++ Dead?” David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-03-19 10:20 +0100
                  Re: “Is C++ Dead?” "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 12:31 -0700
        Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-03-10 13:21 +0000
    Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-03-12 19:46 +0000
      Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-03-14 23:35 +0000
        Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-03-15 13:35 +0000
          Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-03-15 15:37 +0000
            Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-03-15 17:58 +0000
            Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-15 22:23 +0000
              Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-03-16 15:34 +0000
                Re: Re: “Is C++ Dead?” scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-16 15:58 +0000
                  Re: “Is C++ Dead?” Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-03-17 00:02 +0000

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#123511 — “Is C++ Dead?”

“Is C++ Dead?”
    https://deepengineering.substack.com/p/is-c-dead

“According to the January TIOBE Index, C++ is currently the fourth most 
popular programming language after C and Python. C++ is the main 
programming language used in many critical systems, including hospitals, 
cars, and airplanes. But dare I say it: C++ is prone to errors. And in 
2024, even the U.S. government chipped in. They dropped the bomb: C and 
C++ are not memory-safe programming languages. In 2026, might C++ be 
seeing its last days?”
    https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
  
https://bidenwhitehouse.archives.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Final-ONCD-Technical-Report.pdf

No, not even close to starting to die.  New projects are being started 
in C++ daily.

Lynn

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#123512

On Thu, 2026-03-05 at 15:19 -0600, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> “Is C++ Dead?”

C++ will be diminishing (dying) as I felt >20 years ago for reasons of itself.
... In all, build your own library, not the c++ std-lib. Don't be surprised, 
nothing will be lost (etc. portability, efficiency).

>     https://deepengineering.substack.com/p/is-c-dead
> 
> “According to the January TIOBE Index, C++ is currently the fourth most 
> popular programming language after C and Python. C++ is the main 
> programming language used in many critical systems, including hospitals, 
> cars, and airplanes. But dare I say it: C++ is prone to errors. And in 
> 2024, even the U.S. government chipped in. They dropped the bomb: C and 
> C++ are not memory-safe programming languages. In 2026, might C++ be 
> seeing its last days?”
>     https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
>   

The fact for me: I rarely encounter 'memory-safe' problems in C++.

> https://bidenwhitehouse.archives.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Final-ONCD-Technical-Report.pdf
> 
> No, not even close to starting to die.  New projects are being started 
> in C++ daily.
> 
> Lynn

... New programmers would not use C++. Experienced programmers would likely choose C++.

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#123515

On 3/6/2026 8:14 AM, wij wrote:
> 
> The fact for me: I rarely encounter 'memory-safe' problems in C++.
> 
> ... New programmers would not use C++. Experienced programmers would likely choose C++.

Everything comes down to programmers that "do no evil"! ;)

-- 
   @~@   Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
  / v \  May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
/( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
   ^ ^   https://github.com/changmw/changmw

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#123514

On 3/6/2026 5:19 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> 
> 2024, even the U.S. government chipped in. They dropped the bomb: C and
> C++ are not memory-safe programming languages.


That's why operating systems manage and secure memory. Most operating 
systems are written in C and maybe with C++ attachment.

> In 2026, might C++ be seeing its last days?”

Not in business applications, I suppose. would Java die in 2026? Would 
C# rise to power in 2026? :)

-- 
   @~@   Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
  / v \  May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
/( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
   ^ ^   https://github.com/changmw/changmw

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#123517

On 3/5/2026 8:48 PM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
> On 3/6/2026 5:19 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>
>> 2024, even the U.S. government chipped in. They dropped the bomb: C and
>> C++ are not memory-safe programming languages.
> 
> 
> That's why operating systems manage and secure memory. Most operating 
> systems are written in C and maybe with C++ attachment.
> 
>> In 2026, might C++ be seeing its last days?”
> 
> Not in business applications, I suppose. would Java die in 2026? Would 
> C# rise to power in 2026? :)
> 

C#? Garbage collected crap? I know how to use it, but I don't really 
like it.

What about Q#? ;^)

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#123518

On 3/7/2026 5:25 AM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> 
> C#? Garbage collected crap? I know how to use it, but I don't really
> like it.
I suspect many stock trading and quoting systems were written in C for 
speed. Then it's natural for those systems to transition to C++ and C#. 
I dunno that world though. :)

-- 
   @~@   Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
  / v \  May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
/( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
   ^ ^   https://github.com/changmw/changmw

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#123519

On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 13:25:53 -0800
"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 3/5/2026 8:48 PM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
> > On 3/6/2026 5:19 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:  
> >>
> >> 2024, even the U.S. government chipped in. They dropped the bomb:
> >> C and C++ are not memory-safe programming languages.  
> > 
> > 
> > That's why operating systems manage and secure memory. Most
> > operating systems are written in C and maybe with C++ attachment.
> >   
> >> In 2026, might C++ be seeing its last days?”  
> > 
> > Not in business applications, I suppose. would Java die in 2026?
> > Would C# rise to power in 2026? :)
> >   
> 
> C#? Garbage collected crap? I know how to use it, but I don't really 
> like it.
> 
> What about Q#? ;^)

Both Java and C# are garbage-collected languages.
Garbage-collected language is a right choice for business applications
in overwhelming majority of cases.
Is C# better than Java? Probably. But probably not by much.
I like Go better than either of them, but it does not appear to stand a
chance in this battle.

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#123520

On 3/8/2026 2:03 AM, Michael S wrote:
> 
> Both Java and C# are garbage-collected languages.
> Garbage-collected language is a right choice for business applications
> in overwhelming majority of cases.
> Is C# better than Java? Probably. But probably not by much.
> I like Go better than either of them, but it does not appear to stand a
> chance in this battle.
Coders, developers and programmers need to make a living and they will 
always choose the programming language that actually does the job. They 
are not paid to stay in the irovy towers of the acamdeic world! :)

-- 
   @~@   Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
  / v \  May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
/( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
   ^ ^   https://github.com/changmw/changmw

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#123521

On 08/03/2026 09:26, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
> On 3/8/2026 2:03 AM, Michael S wrote:
>>
>> Both Java and C# are garbage-collected languages.
>> Garbage-collected language is a right choice for business applications
>> in overwhelming majority of cases.
>> Is C# better than Java? Probably. But probably not by much.
>> I like Go better than either of them, but it does not appear to stand a
>> chance in this battle.
> Coders, developers and programmers need to make a living and they will 
> always choose the programming language that actually does the job. They 
> are not paid to stay in the irovy towers of the acamdeic world! :)
> 

Programmers rarely choose their programming language for their day job - 
they use what the job says they should use.  They can choose what they 
want for their own coding, and that can influence what job they get, but 
for most programmers, the language they use is what the boss says they 
must use - even if they know they could do a better job in a different 
language.

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#123522

Am 08.03.2026 um 11:49 schrieb David Brown:

> Programmers rarely choose their programming language for
> their day job - they use what the job says they should use. ...

No, they chose the job with the lanugage they like.

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#123523

On 08/03/2026 16:46, Bonita Montero wrote:
> Am 08.03.2026 um 11:49 schrieb David Brown:
> 
>> Programmers rarely choose their programming language for
>> their day job - they use what the job says they should use. ...
> 
> No, they chose the job with the lanugage they like.

Some can do that.  Some can also choose the language that their employer 
uses.  But most programmers get a job that they can get, and do what the 
job requires - just like most non-programmers.

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#123525

On 3/8/2026 11:22 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 08/03/2026 16:46, Bonita Montero wrote:
>> Am 08.03.2026 um 11:49 schrieb David Brown:
>>
>>> Programmers rarely choose their programming language for
>>> their day job - they use what the job says they should use. ...
>>
>> No, they chose the job with the lanugage they like.
> 
> Some can do that.  Some can also choose the language that their employer 
> uses.  But most programmers get a job that they can get, and do what the 
> job requires - just like most non-programmers.
> 

If a boss of mine asks me to code something in C#, I will. But, just 
won't like it all that much. Remember that managed C++ thing from MS?

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#123533

Am 08.03.2026 um 22:38 schrieb Chris M. Thomasson:

> If a boss of mine asks me to code something in C#, I will. But, just 
> won't like it all that much. Remember that managed C++ thing from MS?

C# is a great language for business applications. It's more mature
than Java. Java evolves very slowly and I don't understand why.

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#123539

On 10/03/2026 13:17, Bonita Montero wrote:
> Am 08.03.2026 um 22:38 schrieb Chris M. Thomasson:
> 
>> If a boss of mine asks me to code something in C#, I will. But, just
>> won't like it all that much. Remember that managed C++ thing from MS?
> 
> C# is a great language for business applications. It's more mature
> than Java. Java evolves very slowly and I don't understand why.
> 

Perhaps:
 1. because it's used for critical infrastructure where nobody wants
crazies fighting about who knows the latest newness.
 2. because it was better designed in the first place so useful change
isn't required as often.

-- 
Tristan Wibberley

The message body is Copyright (C) 2026 Tristan Wibberley except
citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you may,
of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it
verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to
promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation
of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general
superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train
any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that
will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.

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#123541

On 3/10/2026 6:17 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:
> Am 08.03.2026 um 22:38 schrieb Chris M. Thomasson:
> 
>> If a boss of mine asks me to code something in C#, I will. But, just 
>> won't like it all that much. Remember that managed C++ thing from MS?
> 
> C# is a great language for business applications. It's more mature
> than Java. Java evolves very slowly and I don't understand why.
> 

C#, heck what about visual basic? Shit. Last time I used that was over 
26 years ago. VB 6 and Access for a reporting system for home inspectors.

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#123524

On 3/8/2026 3:49 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 08/03/2026 09:26, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>> On 3/8/2026 2:03 AM, Michael S wrote:
>>>
>>> Both Java and C# are garbage-collected languages.
>>> Garbage-collected language is a right choice for business applications
>>> in overwhelming majority of cases.
>>> Is C# better than Java? Probably. But probably not by much.
>>> I like Go better than either of them, but it does not appear to stand a
>>> chance in this battle.
>> Coders, developers and programmers need to make a living and they will 
>> always choose the programming language that actually does the job. 
>> They are not paid to stay in the irovy towers of the acamdeic world! :)
>>
> 
> Programmers rarely choose their programming language for their day job - 
> they use what the job says they should use.  They can choose what they 
> want for their own coding, and that can influence what job they get, but 
> for most programmers, the language they use is what the boss says they 
> must use - even if they know they could do a better job in a different 
> language.

Exactly.

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#123526

On 08/03/2026 08:26, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

> Coders, developers and programmers need to make a living and  they will
> always choose the programming language that actually does the job. They
> are not paid to stay in the irovy towers of the acamdeic world! :)
> 

Yes, because the universities don't pay you to solve solved problems
again but slowly. Only fools pay you to do that.

Developers and Programmers need to develop and program to earn a living,
so, in receipt of said living, they develop and program.

It is sad that they cannot allow themselves to receive a living without
feeling that they developed and programmed in return.

-- 
Tristan Wibberley

The message body is Copyright (C) 2026 Tristan Wibberley except
citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you may,
of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it
verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to
promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation
of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general
superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train
any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that
will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.

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#123527

Am 06.03.26 um 05:48 schrieb Mr. Man-wai Chang:
> On 3/6/2026 5:19 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>
>> 2024, even the U.S. government chipped in. They dropped the bomb: C and
>> C++ are not memory-safe programming languages.
> 
> That's why operating systems manage and secure memory. Most operating 
> systems are written in C and maybe with C++ attachment.

Linux recently added Rust to the kernel. I think at long term they will 
prefer Rust.

>> In 2026, might C++ be seeing its last days?”
> 
> Not in business applications,

Well, it depends on what you call "last". ;-)
Due to the existing code base it will survive some decades. But every 
language has its height.

> I suppose. would Java die in 2026?

The Java license is potential harmful. Oracle may kill OpenJDK by making 
the certification too complex and too expensive.

> Would C# rise to power in 2026? :)

The C# license is not that restrictive, and C# has become somewhat 
superior to Java regarding features and performance. But both are still 
far behind C++.
On the other side the larger existing code base will keep Java alive, at 
least for business.

C++ has become too complex for many programmers. This is an economic 
disadvantage from the business point of view. So people move to a newer, 
simpler language with less features. Until it becomes too complex, of 
course. New hardware (to compensate for performance) is always cheaper 
that programmers, who write efficient code.


Marcel

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#123530

On 3/9/2026 2:27 AM, Marcel Mueller wrote:
> Am 06.03.26 um 05:48 schrieb Mr. Man-wai Chang:
>> On 3/6/2026 5:19 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>
>>> 2024, even the U.S. government chipped in. They dropped the bomb: C and
>>> C++ are not memory-safe programming languages.
>>
>> That's why operating systems manage and secure memory. Most operating 
>> systems are written in C and maybe with C++ attachment.
> 
> Linux recently added Rust to the kernel. I think at long term they will 
> prefer Rust.
> 
>>> In 2026, might C++ be seeing its last days?”
>>
>> Not in business applications,
> 
> Well, it depends on what you call "last". ;-)
> Due to the existing code base it will survive some decades. But every 
> language has its height.
> 
>> I suppose. would Java die in 2026?
> 
> The Java license is potential harmful. Oracle may kill OpenJDK by making 
> the certification too complex and too expensive.
> 
>> Would C# rise to power in 2026? :)
> 
> The C# license is not that restrictive, and C# has become somewhat 
> superior to Java regarding features and performance. But both are still 
> far behind C++.
> On the other side the larger existing code base will keep Java alive, at 
> least for business.
> 
> C++ has become too complex for many programmers. This is an economic 
> disadvantage from the business point of view. So people move to a newer, 
> simpler language with less features. Until it becomes too complex, of 
> course. New hardware (to compensate for performance) is always cheaper 
> that programmers, who write efficient code.
> 
> 
> Marcel

If C++ is too complex for a programmer then the programmer is not a good 
programmer.

The only exception to that is multiple thread software.  That stuff is 
dadgum complicated.  But the multiple thread software is not used very 
often in my circles.

Lynn

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#123535

On 09/03/2026 22:36, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> If C++ is too complex for a programmer then the programmer is not a good
> programmer.

It has become way too irregular.

I guess because so many contracts stipulate any current C++ standard
that, to get advantages of a different language, the ISO committee was
fooled into making C++ into a different language with compatibility
crimping. It would have been better to add a line to the C++ standard
"Rust is a minor variant of C++-20" so C++-20 programs could include
object files translated from a rust source file.


-- 
Tristan Wibberley

The message body is Copyright (C) 2026 Tristan Wibberley except
citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you may,
of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it
verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to
promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation
of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general
superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train
any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that
will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.

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