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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #120154 > unrolled thread

C++ named requirements as concepts

Started byjseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com>
First post2024-09-21 15:43 -0400
Last post2024-09-25 15:23 -0400
Articles 20 on this page of 258 — 15 participants

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Contents

  C++ named requirements as concepts jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-09-21 15:43 -0400
    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-22 08:06 +0000
      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-22 10:45 +0200
        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-22 08:59 +0000
          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-22 11:03 +0200
            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-22 09:08 +0000
              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-22 11:51 +0200
                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-22 15:15 +0000
                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-22 17:33 +0200
                    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-23 07:39 +0000
                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 10:54 +0200
                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-23 09:32 +0000
                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 11:45 +0200
                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-23 13:56 +0000
                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 16:00 +0200
                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-23 14:03 +0000
                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-23 15:48 +0000
                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 17:52 +0200
                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-23 15:47 +0000
                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 17:53 +0200
                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-24 07:20 +0000
                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-24 09:33 +0200
                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-24 08:11 +0000
                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-24 11:17 +0200
                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-24 11:46 +0200
                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-24 10:52 +0000
                                    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-24 12:54 +0200
                                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-24 10:59 +0000
                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-24 13:05 +0200
                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-24 11:07 +0000
                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-24 13:21 +0200
                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-24 13:51 +0000
                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-24 15:56 +0200
                                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-24 15:43 +0000
                                                    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-24 17:48 +0200
                                                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-25 07:19 +0000
                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 11:30 +0200
                                                    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 09:49 +0200
                                                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-25 08:24 +0000
                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 11:32 +0200
                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-25 11:15 +0000
                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 13:30 +0200
                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-25 12:43 +0000
                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 14:50 +0200
                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 14:00 +0200
                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-25 12:47 +0000
                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 15:00 +0200
                                                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-25 13:22 +0000
                                                                    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 17:12 +0200
                                                                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-25 15:35 +0000
                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 19:19 +0200
                                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-26 07:36 +0000
                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 11:36 +0200
                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-25 13:11 +0300
                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-25 13:31 +0300
                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-09-25 13:52 +0300
                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-25 14:06 +0300
                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 14:22 +0200
                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-25 11:12 +0000
                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-25 14:30 +0300
                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 14:34 +0200
                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 14:38 +0200
                                                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 15:01 +0200
                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-25 12:40 +0000
                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 13:23 +0200
                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 13:33 +0200
                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-25 14:38 +0300
                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 13:45 +0200
                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 14:36 +0200
                                                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 14:39 +0200
                                                                    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 15:04 +0200
                                                                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-25 17:14 +0300
                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 16:23 +0200
                                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 17:18 +0200
                                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 17:26 +0200
                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 17:14 +0200
                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-09-25 21:24 +0300
                                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 20:37 +0200
                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 13:49 +0200
                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 14:03 +0200
                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 14:38 +0200
                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-25 15:17 +0300
                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-09-25 15:49 +0300
                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 14:52 +0200
                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-25 12:55 +0000
                                                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 15:08 +0200
                                                                    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-25 13:24 +0000
                                                                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 15:28 +0200
                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-25 13:36 +0000
                                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 15:44 +0200
                                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-25 14:11 +0000
                                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 16:14 +0200
                                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-25 15:32 +0000
                                                                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 17:33 +0200
                                                                                    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-25 15:49 +0000
                                                                                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 17:53 +0200
                                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-26 07:34 +0000
                                                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-26 10:20 +0200
                                                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-09-26 16:46 +0800
                                                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-09-26 16:51 +0800
                                                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-26 11:20 +0200
                                                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-09-26 19:17 +0800
                                                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-09-26 19:27 +0800
                                                                                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-26 13:32 +0200
                                                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-26 12:23 +0300
                                                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-26 11:25 +0200
                                                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-09-26 19:20 +0800
                                                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-26 10:03 +0000
                                                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-26 13:33 +0200
                                                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-26 14:09 +0000
                                                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-26 16:14 +0200
                                                                                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-09-27 02:27 -0700
                                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-27 11:11 +0000
                                                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-27 16:14 +0200
                                                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-27 15:25 +0000
                                                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-27 18:24 +0200
                                                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-28 09:12 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-28 17:33 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-28 15:47 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-29 13:41 +0200
                                                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-29 13:48 +0200
                                                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-29 14:49 +0300
                                                                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-09-29 11:23 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.com - 2024-09-30 07:26 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-09-30 07:40 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-30 12:24 +0200
                                                                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-09-30 15:47 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-30 17:58 +0200
                                                                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-30 10:57 +0200
                                                                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-09-30 05:29 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-30 14:34 +0200
                                                                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-30 15:21 +0200
                                                                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-09-30 16:00 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-09-30 16:09 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 19:43 +0300
                                                                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-01 07:31 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-01 11:01 +0300
                                                                                                                    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-10-01 10:06 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-01 09:58 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-10-01 12:58 +0200
                                                                                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-01 16:14 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-10-01 19:43 +0200
                                                                                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-02 07:11 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-10-02 09:34 +0200
                                                                                                                    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-01 09:57 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-09-30 10:18 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-01 07:32 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-30 19:51 +0200
                                                                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-01 07:36 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-10-01 10:00 +0200
                                                                                                                    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-01 10:42 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-01 12:53 +0300
                                                                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-01 10:02 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-01 13:11 +0300
                                                                                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-01 16:13 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-01 21:50 +0300
                                                                                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-01 20:06 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts User <noreply@user.com> - 2024-10-02 05:47 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-04 06:52 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-04 13:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-02 13:02 +0300
                                                                                                                                    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-04 06:57 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-06 14:19 +0300
                                                                                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-06 14:22 +0200
                                                                                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-07 09:11 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-07 22:53 +0300
                                                                                                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-10-08 18:11 +0300
                                                                                                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-08 22:48 +0300
                                                                                                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-10-09 00:12 +0300
                                                                                                                                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-09 01:06 +0300
                                                                                                                                                    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-10-09 08:25 +0300
                                                                                                                                                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-10-09 08:28 +0200
                                                                                                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-10-09 10:26 +0300
                                                                                                                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-09 09:31 +0000
                                                                                                                                                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-09 13:58 +0300
                                                                                                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-10-09 14:39 +0300
                                                                                                                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-09 19:59 +0300
                                                                                                                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-10-09 22:37 +0300
                                                                                                                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-10 11:47 +0300
                                                                                                                                                    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-11 04:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-11 16:03 +0300
                                                                                                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-12 07:41 -0700
                                                                                                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-12 08:18 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-11 03:57 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-10-07 19:19 +0200
                                                                                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-02 07:13 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-01 13:06 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-01 10:01 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-01 13:08 +0200
                                                                                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-01 16:15 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-10-01 19:44 +0200
                                                                                                                    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-01 09:56 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-10-01 13:01 +0200
                                                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-29 15:00 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-29 14:37 +0300
                                                                                                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-29 15:42 +0200
                                                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-29 15:47 +0200
                                                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-09-28 04:28 -0700
                                                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-28 13:55 +0000
                                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-25 15:33 +0000
                                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-25 17:16 +0300
                                                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-09-25 16:22 +0300
                                                                    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-25 13:34 +0000
                                                                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 17:27 +0200
                                                                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-09-25 22:37 +0300
                                                                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-26 07:38 +0000
                                                                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-26 10:21 +0200
                                                                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-26 10:03 +0000
                                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-26 13:29 +0200
                                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-26 14:09 +0000
                                                                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-26 16:17 +0200
                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 15:07 +0200
                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2024-09-26 18:22 -0700
                                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 14:58 +0200
                                                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 15:19 +0200
                                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-24 13:55 -0700
                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-24 10:50 +0000
                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-24 12:53 +0200
      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-09-22 07:58 -0400
        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-22 14:10 +0200
          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-09-23 11:08 -0400
            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 17:21 +0200
        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-22 15:21 +0000
          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-22 17:34 +0200
            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-23 07:40 +0000
              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 10:55 +0200
                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-23 09:33 +0000
                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 11:46 +0200
                    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-23 13:59 +0000
                      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 16:02 +0200
                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-23 14:05 +0000
                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 16:10 +0200
                        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 12:55 -0700
                          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-09-23 16:24 -0400
                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 14:43 -0700
                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-09-23 18:59 -0400
                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 16:06 -0700
                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 16:10 -0700
                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-09-24 09:15 -0400
                            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-24 07:23 +0000
                              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-24 09:34 +0200
                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-09-24 08:14 +0000
                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-24 11:18 +0200
                                Re: C++ named requirements as concepts jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-09-24 08:59 -0400
                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-24 15:02 +0200
                                  Re: C++ named requirements as concepts "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-24 13:37 -0700
      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Jack <noreply@mandrill.com> - 2024-09-23 00:15 +0000
        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 08:48 +0800
    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-22 11:46 +0200
      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-22 13:35 +0200
    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2024-09-22 11:43 -0700
      Re: C++ named requirements as concepts jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-09-22 17:00 -0400
        Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2024-09-22 14:50 -0700
          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-09-23 10:32 -0400
          Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 16:55 +0200
            Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2024-09-23 08:11 -0700
              Re: C++ named requirements as concepts Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-09-24 08:24 +0200
    Re: C++ named requirements as concepts jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-09-25 15:23 -0400

Page 3 of 13 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 … 13  Next page →


#120274

FromMuttley@dastardlyhq.com
Date2024-09-25 11:15 +0000
Message-ID<vd0rbm$3lnmf$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#120267
On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 11:32:56 +0200
Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> boringly babbled:
>Am 25.09.2024 um 10:24 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
>
>> Tbh if you want to massage templating that much then don't use it in the
>> first place, just hard code the functions.
>
>To avoid concepts ? LOL.
>
>> This is where compiler command line switches should come into play.
>
>Without concepts the compiler has no other choice than giving Swahili
>error messages from inside the implementation.
>
>> Don't use auto in those scenarios then. Its always nicer when people put
>> the specific type in the code anyway.
>
>auto-parameters *with* concepts become much cleaner than without.
>There's no choice to hardcode sth. then because you want to be generic.

Generic is only needed if you're writing a library for others to use. If
you're writing a self contained program its nothing more than a shortcut so 
in that instance if it causes issues then hard code the functions.

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#120277

FromBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Date2024-09-25 13:30 +0200
Message-ID<vd0s7n$3lpgc$2@raubtier-asyl.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#120274
Am 25.09.2024 um 13:15 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:

> Generic is only needed if you're writing a library for others to use.

I often write generic code that I use myself in different ways,
each specialized to a set of generic types. I think that's much
more common than that someone implements a generic API for use
by the public.
F.e. this code is a function which concatenates anything which
can be converted to a basic_string_view to a corrsponding string
with same char- and traits-tyme.

#pragma once
#include <type_traits>
#include <concepts>
#include <string_view>
#include <array>

template<typename String, typename ... Viewables>
	requires std::same_as<String, std::basic_string<typename 
String::value_type, typename String::traits_type, typename 
String::allocator_type>>
		&& (std::convertible_to<Viewables, std::basic_string_view<typename 
String::value_type, typename String::traits_type>> && ...)
inline String sv_concat( Viewables &... viewables )
{
	using namespace std;
	String str;
	constexpr size_t N = sizeof ...(Viewables);
	if constexpr( N )
	{
		using sv_type = basic_string_view<typename String::value_type, 
typename String::traits_type>;
		array<sv_type, N> views = { viewables ... };
		[&]<size_t ... Indices>( index_sequence<Indices ...> )
		{
			str.reserve( (views[Indices].length() + ...) );
			((str += views[Indices]), ...);
		}( make_index_sequence<N>() );
	}
	return str;
}

Looks complex, but the concatenating string with that code is as
efficient as possible:

string fn( string_view svA, string strB, char const *cStrC )
{
	return sv_concat<string>( svA, strB, cStrC );
}

Without generic programming I'd to write the code at least for
each character-type.

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#120292

FromMuttley@dastardlyhq.com
Date2024-09-25 12:43 +0000
Message-ID<vd10gn$3mejg$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#120277
On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 13:30:05 +0200
Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> boringly babbled:
>Am 25.09.2024 um 13:15 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
>
>> Generic is only needed if you're writing a library for others to use.
>
>I often write generic code that I use myself in different ways,
>each specialized to a set of generic types. I think that's much
>more common than that someone implements a generic API for use
>by the public.
>F.e. this code is a function which concatenates anything which
>can be converted to a basic_string_view to a corrsponding string
>with same char- and traits-tyme.

Looks like a library function to me albeit only you use. I doubt you'd only
use it in one program.

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#120295

FromBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Date2024-09-25 14:50 +0200
Message-ID<vd10ug$3mfvn$1@raubtier-asyl.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#120292
Am 25.09.2024 um 14:43 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
> On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 13:30:05 +0200
> Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> boringly babbled:
>> Am 25.09.2024 um 13:15 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
>>
>>> Generic is only needed if you're writing a library for others to use.
>>
>> I often write generic code that I use myself in different ways,
>> each specialized to a set of generic types. I think that's much
>> more common than that someone implements a generic API for use
>> by the public.
>> F.e. this code is a function which concatenates anything which
>> can be converted to a basic_string_view to a corrsponding string
>> with same char- and traits-tyme.
> 
> Looks like a library function to me albeit only you use. I doubt you'd only
> use it in one program.
> 
> 

Of course it's a library-function, but not written for the public.

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#120282

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2024-09-25 14:00 +0200
Message-ID<vd0u0m$3m0aj$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#120274
On 25/09/2024 13:15, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 11:32:56 +0200
> Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> boringly babbled:
>> Am 25.09.2024 um 10:24 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
>>
>>> Tbh if you want to massage templating that much then don't use it in the
>>> first place, just hard code the functions.
>>
>> To avoid concepts ? LOL.
>>
>>> This is where compiler command line switches should come into play.
>>
>> Without concepts the compiler has no other choice than giving Swahili
>> error messages from inside the implementation.
>>
>>> Don't use auto in those scenarios then. Its always nicer when people put
>>> the specific type in the code anyway.
>>
>> auto-parameters *with* concepts become much cleaner than without.
>> There's no choice to hardcode sth. then because you want to be generic.
> 
> Generic is only needed if you're writing a library for others to use. If
> you're writing a self contained program its nothing more than a shortcut so
> in that instance if it causes issues then hard code the functions.
> 

I use generic code regularly in my small-systems embedded programming. 
Rather than using run-time class hierarchies with virtual functions and 
run-time polymorphic code, I use compile-time class hierarchies and 
generic functions.  This means more information can be tied to the types 
of objects, resulting in minimal object code and maximal efficiency 
without having to duplicate the source code.

Of course it has its limitations - the function definition for templates 
has to be seen at compile-time, so headers are bigger and compile and 
link times are slower, debugging can be more awkward, and it is only 
appropriate for some code.

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#120293

FromMuttley@dastardlyhq.com
Date2024-09-25 12:47 +0000
Message-ID<vd10ot$3mfkq$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#120282
On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 14:00:22 +0200
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> boringly babbled:
>On 25/09/2024 13:15, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> Generic is only needed if you're writing a library for others to use. If
>> you're writing a self contained program its nothing more than a shortcut so
>> in that instance if it causes issues then hard code the functions.
>> 
>
>I use generic code regularly in my small-systems embedded programming. 
>Rather than using run-time class hierarchies with virtual functions and 
>run-time polymorphic code, I use compile-time class hierarchies and 
>generic functions.  This means more information can be tied to the types 
>of objects, resulting in minimal object code and maximal efficiency 
>without having to duplicate the source code.

Can't imagine why you'd need any of that in small systems embedded as the 
size of programs you can fit into memory constrains the structural complexity.
If you need class inheritance in something that has to fit into 16K or
whatever then you're doing it wrong.

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#120299

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2024-09-25 15:00 +0200
Message-ID<vd11h4$3mfjo$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#120293
On 25/09/2024 14:47, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 14:00:22 +0200
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> boringly babbled:
>> On 25/09/2024 13:15, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> Generic is only needed if you're writing a library for others to use. If
>>> you're writing a self contained program its nothing more than a shortcut so
>>> in that instance if it causes issues then hard code the functions.
>>>
>>
>> I use generic code regularly in my small-systems embedded programming.
>> Rather than using run-time class hierarchies with virtual functions and
>> run-time polymorphic code, I use compile-time class hierarchies and
>> generic functions.  This means more information can be tied to the types
>> of objects, resulting in minimal object code and maximal efficiency
>> without having to duplicate the source code.
> 
> Can't imagine why you'd need any of that in small systems embedded as the
> size of programs you can fit into memory constrains the structural complexity.
> If you need class inheritance in something that has to fit into 16K or
> whatever then you're doing it wrong.
> 

That is just because you can't imagine.

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#120306

FromMuttley@dastardlyhq.com
Date2024-09-25 13:22 +0000
Message-ID<vd12r6$3mp43$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#120299
On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 15:00:20 +0200
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> boringly babbled:
>On 25/09/2024 14:47, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 14:00:22 +0200
>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> boringly babbled:
>>> On 25/09/2024 13:15, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>> Generic is only needed if you're writing a library for others to use. If
>>>> you're writing a self contained program its nothing more than a shortcut so
>
>>>> in that instance if it causes issues then hard code the functions.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I use generic code regularly in my small-systems embedded programming.
>>> Rather than using run-time class hierarchies with virtual functions and
>>> run-time polymorphic code, I use compile-time class hierarchies and
>>> generic functions.  This means more information can be tied to the types
>>> of objects, resulting in minimal object code and maximal efficiency
>>> without having to duplicate the source code.
>> 
>> Can't imagine why you'd need any of that in small systems embedded as the
>> size of programs you can fit into memory constrains the structural
>complexity.
>> If you need class inheritance in something that has to fit into 16K or
>> whatever then you're doing it wrong.
>> 
>
>That is just because you can't imagine.

Funny. Misra-C++ is it? No? Then you're just playing with toys, not doing
proper embedded.

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#120317

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2024-09-25 17:12 +0200
Message-ID<vd198f$3nh00$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#120306
On 25/09/2024 15:22, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 15:00:20 +0200
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> boringly babbled:
>> On 25/09/2024 14:47, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 14:00:22 +0200
>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> boringly babbled:
>>>> On 25/09/2024 13:15, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>> Generic is only needed if you're writing a library for others to use. If
>>>>> you're writing a self contained program its nothing more than a shortcut so
>>
>>>>> in that instance if it causes issues then hard code the functions.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I use generic code regularly in my small-systems embedded programming.
>>>> Rather than using run-time class hierarchies with virtual functions and
>>>> run-time polymorphic code, I use compile-time class hierarchies and
>>>> generic functions.  This means more information can be tied to the types
>>>> of objects, resulting in minimal object code and maximal efficiency
>>>> without having to duplicate the source code.
>>>
>>> Can't imagine why you'd need any of that in small systems embedded as the
>>> size of programs you can fit into memory constrains the structural
>> complexity.
>>> If you need class inheritance in something that has to fit into 16K or
>>> whatever then you're doing it wrong.
>>>
>>
>> That is just because you can't imagine.
> 
> Funny. Misra-C++ is it? No? Then you're just playing with toys, not doing
> proper embedded.
> 

If you think MISRA is required for embedded development, or even if you 
think it is a good idea that promotes safe and reliable coding, then you 
have little concept of the field.  There are certainly markets where 
MISRA is strongly encouraged or even required, but that is all about 
legal arse-covering, not actual safety or reliability.

And anyway, MISRA C++ is quite happy with templates and generic code.

However, the last MISRA C++ version I have is from 2008, so perhaps in 
the they have decided to ban templates for MISRA C++ 2023 (covering 
C++17), though I strongly doubt it.

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#120326

FromMuttley@dastardlyhq.com
Date2024-09-25 15:35 +0000
Message-ID<vd1ak6$3nuqg$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#120317
On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 17:12:15 +0200
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> boringly babbled:
>On 25/09/2024 15:22, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> Funny. Misra-C++ is it? No? Then you're just playing with toys, not doing
>> proper embedded.
>> 
>
>If you think MISRA is required for embedded development, or even if you 
>think it is a good idea that promotes safe and reliable coding, then you 
>have little concept of the field.  There are certainly markets where 

I didn't embedded in the UK defense industry so I probably have a bit more of
a clue than you piddling around with your arduino or PIC writing code for
a toaster.

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#120331

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2024-09-25 19:19 +0200
Message-ID<vd1gms$3ovnj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#120326
On 25/09/2024 17:35, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 17:12:15 +0200
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> boringly babbled:
>> On 25/09/2024 15:22, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> Funny. Misra-C++ is it? No? Then you're just playing with toys, not doing
>>> proper embedded.
>>>
>>
>> If you think MISRA is required for embedded development, or even if you
>> think it is a good idea that promotes safe and reliable coding, then you
>> have little concept of the field.  There are certainly markets where
> 
> I didn't embedded in the UK defense industry so I probably have a bit more of
> a clue than you piddling around with your arduino or PIC writing code for
> a toaster.
> 

You "didn't embedded in the UK defense industry" - that I believe.

It's harder to believe that you /did/ work with embedded systems related 
to the UK defence industry.  From my own experience, I know there are 
people in that field who are good at what they do, and others that go 
through the motions.  And I know that arse-covering is often higher 
priority than actually trying to do good development - "You can't sue us 
for writing bad software, because we use industry standard MISRA rules".

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#120345

FromMuttley@dastardlyhq.com
Date2024-09-26 07:36 +0000
Message-ID<vd32tt$3n51$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#120331
On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 19:19:24 +0200
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> boringly babbled:
>On 25/09/2024 17:35, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> I didn't embedded in the UK defense industry so I probably have a bit more of
>
>> a clue than you piddling around with your arduino or PIC writing code for
>> a toaster.
>> 
>
>You "didn't embedded in the UK defense industry" - that I believe.
>It's harder to believe that you /did/ work with embedded systems related 
>to the UK defence industry.  From my own experience, I know there are 

Believe what you like matey. Misra-C and LDRA were the order of the day.

>priority than actually trying to do good development - "You can't sue us 
>for writing bad software, because we use industry standard MISRA rules".

Law isn't my area so no idea.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#120268

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2024-09-25 11:36 +0200
Message-ID<vd0ljo$3keo4$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#120265
On 25/09/2024 10:24, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 09:49:49 +0200
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> boringly babbled:
>> looks up.  The error message is likely to be complex because the
>> compiler doesn't know where you made the mistake, and tries to list
> 
> It knows what line invoked the error so all it needs to do is print that.
> 

But that is typically not where the error lies.

Compilers give messages that try to help the developer find the problem, 
not just tell you there is a problem.  If it just says you can't do 
"foo(a);", that tells me little - I know that line is correct.  The 
problem lies with the type of "a", or the definition of that type, or 
the declaration of "foo".  That's what I want to know about.

>> Using concepts, however, means the error is found on the first attempt
>> to use the type "A<T>" - the compiler can give far clearer information.
>> It can say "On line x, you tried to make A<T>, but type T does not
>> fulfil the requirement you gave on line y when you defined class A".
> 
> Tbh if you want to massage templating that much then don't use it in the
> first place, just hard code the functions.
> 

Sometimes you want something in between.

If you want a template function that can be used with any integral type, 
you can have "auto next(std::integral auto x) { return x + 1; }".  You 
are limiting this to integer types (using a standard library concept). 
You don't have to hard-code all the different types of integer. 
Equally, it is not so open that it will also work with pointers - if you 
try "next(&y)", you'll get a nice clear error message.


>> Competition is a great thing).  And you sometimes want more information,
>> sometimes less.  But concepts give the programmer and the compiler a far
>> better starting point.
> 
> This is where compiler command line switches should come into play.

They can help, of course - as can a good IDE that interprets the error 
messages and helps you navigate to possible errors.  Concepts make the 
whole thing easier and clearer in many cases.

Generating good, clear and helpful error messages and warnings is 
/really/ difficult.  It is typically harder for compilers than merely 
generating correct object code for correct source code.

And they also make the code requirements a lot clearer to human readers. 
  They let you specify your classes and functions better, in code rather 
than in comments (since comments are often out of sync with the code).

> 
>> They also allow neater and clearer code with constrained auto
>> declarations, letting you specify something between "this /exact/ type"
>> and "whatever seems to fit".
> 
> Don't use auto in those scenarios then. Its always nicer when people put
> the specific type in the code anyway.
> 

No, it is not always nicer.  It is /sometimes/ nicer.  At other times, 
type inference is nicer - especially in templates.  Constrained type 
inference can be nicer still.


I am not suggesting that concepts always result in clearer error 
messages, or that they mean compilers don't have to improve their 
messages.  I am not suggesting that they should be used for every 
declaration, or at every opportunity.

I am merely saying that they give you another useful tool that can aid 
writing good, clear code, and getting good help from your tools.

(And I am not in any way trying to defend Bonita's code style!)

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#120269

FromMichael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Date2024-09-25 13:11 +0300
Message-ID<20240925131144.00004c38@yahoo.com>
In reply to#120265
On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 08:24:19 -0000 (UTC)
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 09:49:49 +0200
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> boringly babbled:
> >looks up.  The error message is likely to be complex because the 
> >compiler doesn't know where you made the mistake, and tries to list
> > 
> 
> It knows what line invoked the error so all it needs to do is print
> that.
> 
> >Using concepts, however, means the error is found on the first
> >attempt to use the type "A<T>" - the compiler can give far clearer
> >information. It can say "On line x, you tried to make A<T>, but type
> >T does not fulfil the requirement you gave on line y when you
> >defined class A".   
> 
> Tbh if you want to massage templating that much then don't use it in
> the first place, just hard code the functions.
> 
> >Competition is a great thing).  And you sometimes want more
> >information, sometimes less.  But concepts give the programmer and
> >the compiler a far better starting point.  
> 
> This is where compiler command line switches should come into play.
> 
> >They also allow neater and clearer code with constrained auto 
> >declarations, letting you specify something between "this /exact/
> >type" and "whatever seems to fit".  
> 
> Don't use auto in those scenarios then. Its always nicer when people
> put the specific type in the code anyway.
> 

Below is example of very simple function with very small
template-related bug of sort that people sometimes do in real life.
I tried 3 compilers. Each one produces more than 20 lines of error
messages none of which was enlightening.

#include <cstdint>
#include <algorithm>

void my_sort2(uint8_t* buf, int buflen, const uint8_t* trans_tab) 
{
  struct {
    const uint8_t* tab;
    bool operator() (uint8_t a, uint8_t b) { 
      return tab[a] < tab[b];
    }
  } cmp;
  cmp.tab = trans_tab;
  std::sort(buf, buf+buflen, &cmp);
}

I don't know if with conceptized <algorithm> error reporting would
work better. But it is worth a try, because current state is not
satisfactory.


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#120270

FromMichael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Date2024-09-25 13:31 +0300
Message-ID<20240925133134.0000221f@yahoo.com>
In reply to#120269
On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 13:11:44 +0300
Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 08:24:19 -0000 (UTC)
> Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 09:49:49 +0200
> > David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> boringly babbled:  
> > >looks up.  The error message is likely to be complex because the 
> > >compiler doesn't know where you made the mistake, and tries to list
> > >   
> > 
> > It knows what line invoked the error so all it needs to do is print
> > that.
> >   
> > >Using concepts, however, means the error is found on the first
> > >attempt to use the type "A<T>" - the compiler can give far clearer
> > >information. It can say "On line x, you tried to make A<T>, but
> > >type T does not fulfil the requirement you gave on line y when you
> > >defined class A".     
> > 
> > Tbh if you want to massage templating that much then don't use it in
> > the first place, just hard code the functions.
> >   
> > >Competition is a great thing).  And you sometimes want more
> > >information, sometimes less.  But concepts give the programmer and
> > >the compiler a far better starting point.    
> > 
> > This is where compiler command line switches should come into play.
> >   
> > >They also allow neater and clearer code with constrained auto 
> > >declarations, letting you specify something between "this /exact/
> > >type" and "whatever seems to fit".    
> > 
> > Don't use auto in those scenarios then. Its always nicer when people
> > put the specific type in the code anyway.
> >   
> 
> Below is example of very simple function with very small
> template-related bug of sort that people sometimes do in real life.
> I tried 3 compilers. Each one produces more than 20 lines of error
> messages none of which was enlightening.
> 
> #include <cstdint>
> #include <algorithm>
> 
> void my_sort2(uint8_t* buf, int buflen, const uint8_t* trans_tab) 
> {
>   struct {
>     const uint8_t* tab;
>     bool operator() (uint8_t a, uint8_t b) { 
>       return tab[a] < tab[b];
>     }
>   } cmp;
>   cmp.tab = trans_tab;
>   std::sort(buf, buf+buflen, &cmp);
> }
> 
> I don't know if with conceptized <algorithm> error reporting would
> work better. But it is worth a try, because current state is not
> satisfactory.
> 
> 
> 

Below is an example of even more likely user mistake.
gcc generated 63 lines of errors, MSVC produced 69 lines and clang
had beaten both of them with 217 lines!
Even if, by chance, one or two of the messages make sense, they are
well hidden in piles of garbage.

void my_sort3(uint8_t* buf, int buflen, const uint8_t* trans_tab) 
{
  struct {
    const uint8_t* tab;
    bool operator() (uint8_t* a, uint8_t *b) { 
      return tab[*a] < tab[*b];
    }
  } cmp;
  cmp.tab = trans_tab;
  std::sort(buf, buf+buflen, cmp);
}

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#120271

FromPaavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee>
Date2024-09-25 13:52 +0300
Message-ID<vd0q23$3ldqt$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#120270
On 25.09.2024 13:31, Michael S wrote:
> Below is an example of even more likely user mistake.
> gcc generated 63 lines of errors, MSVC produced 69 lines and clang
> had beaten both of them with 217 lines!
> Even if, by chance, one or two of the messages make sense, they are
> well hidden in piles of garbage.
> 
> void my_sort3(uint8_t* buf, int buflen, const uint8_t* trans_tab)
> {
>    struct {
>      const uint8_t* tab;
>      bool operator() (uint8_t* a, uint8_t *b) {
>        return tab[*a] < tab[*b];
>      }
>    } cmp;
>    cmp.tab = trans_tab;
>    std::sort(buf, buf+buflen, cmp);
> }
> 

VStudio 2022 gives pretty clear error messages: cannot convert from an 
integer to a pointer, when calling operator():

Build started at 13:49...
1>------ Build started: Project: ConsoleTest2022, Configuration: Debug 
x64 ------
1>main.cpp
1>C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual 
Studio\2022\Professional\VC\Tools\MSVC\14.40.33807\include\xutility(1501,14): 
error C2664: 'bool my_sort3::<unnamed-type-cmp>::operator ()(uint8_t 
*,uint8_t *)': cannot convert argument 1 from 'unsigned char' to 'uint8_t *'
1>C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual 
Studio\2022\Professional\VC\Tools\MSVC\14.40.33807\include\algorithm(8068,16): 
error C2664: 'bool my_sort3::<unnamed-type-cmp>::operator ()(uint8_t 
*,uint8_t *)': cannot convert argument 1 from 'uint8_t' to 'uint8_t *'
1>C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual 
Studio\2022\Professional\VC\Tools\MSVC\14.40.33807\include\algorithm(8072,76): 
error C2664: 'bool my_sort3::<unnamed-type-cmp>::operator ()(uint8_t 
*,uint8_t *)': cannot convert argument 1 from 'uint8_t' to 'uint8_t *'
1>C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual 
Studio\2022\Professional\VC\Tools\MSVC\14.40.33807\include\algorithm(8083,24): 
error C2664: 'bool my_sort3::<unnamed-type-cmp>::operator ()(uint8_t 
*,uint8_t *)': cannot convert argument 1 from 'uint8_t' to 'uint8_t *'
1>C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual 
Studio\2022\Professional\VC\Tools\MSVC\14.40.33807\include\algorithm(8097,24): 
error C2664: 'bool my_sort3::<unnamed-type-cmp>::operator ()(uint8_t 
*,uint8_t *)': cannot convert argument 1 from 'uint8_t' to 'uint8_t *'
1>Done building project "ConsoleTest2022.vcxproj" -- FAILED.
========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 0 up-to-date, 0 skipped ==========
========== Build completed at 13:49 and took 00,390 seconds ==========

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#120272

FromMichael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Date2024-09-25 14:06 +0300
Message-ID<20240925140649.00001a3a@yahoo.com>
In reply to#120271
On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 13:52:51 +0300
Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> wrote:

> On 25.09.2024 13:31, Michael S wrote:
> > Below is an example of even more likely user mistake.
> > gcc generated 63 lines of errors, MSVC produced 69 lines and clang
> > had beaten both of them with 217 lines!
> > Even if, by chance, one or two of the messages make sense, they are
> > well hidden in piles of garbage.
> > 
> > void my_sort3(uint8_t* buf, int buflen, const uint8_t* trans_tab)
> > {
> >    struct {
> >      const uint8_t* tab;
> >      bool operator() (uint8_t* a, uint8_t *b) {
> >        return tab[*a] < tab[*b];
> >      }
> >    } cmp;
> >    cmp.tab = trans_tab;
> >    std::sort(buf, buf+buflen, cmp);
> > }
> >   
> 
> VStudio 2022 gives pretty clear error messages: cannot convert from
> an integer to a pointer, when calling operator():
> 
> Build started at 13:49...
> 1>------ Build started: Project: ConsoleTest2022, Configuration:
> 1>Debug   
> x64 ------
> 1>main.cpp
> 1>C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual   
> Studio\2022\Professional\VC\Tools\MSVC\14.40.33807\include\xutility(1501,14): 
> error C2664: 'bool my_sort3::<unnamed-type-cmp>::operator ()(uint8_t 
> *,uint8_t *)': cannot convert argument 1 from 'unsigned char' to
> 'uint8_t *'
> 1>C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual   
> Studio\2022\Professional\VC\Tools\MSVC\14.40.33807\include\algorithm(8068,16): 
> error C2664: 'bool my_sort3::<unnamed-type-cmp>::operator ()(uint8_t 
> *,uint8_t *)': cannot convert argument 1 from 'uint8_t' to 'uint8_t *'
> 1>C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual   
> Studio\2022\Professional\VC\Tools\MSVC\14.40.33807\include\algorithm(8072,76): 
> error C2664: 'bool my_sort3::<unnamed-type-cmp>::operator ()(uint8_t 
> *,uint8_t *)': cannot convert argument 1 from 'uint8_t' to 'uint8_t *'
> 1>C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual   
> Studio\2022\Professional\VC\Tools\MSVC\14.40.33807\include\algorithm(8083,24): 
> error C2664: 'bool my_sort3::<unnamed-type-cmp>::operator ()(uint8_t 
> *,uint8_t *)': cannot convert argument 1 from 'uint8_t' to 'uint8_t *'
> 1>C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual   
> Studio\2022\Professional\VC\Tools\MSVC\14.40.33807\include\algorithm(8097,24): 
> error C2664: 'bool my_sort3::<unnamed-type-cmp>::operator ()(uint8_t 
> *,uint8_t *)': cannot convert argument 1 from 'uint8_t' to 'uint8_t *'
> 1>Done building project "ConsoleTest2022.vcxproj" -- FAILED.  
> ========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 0 up-to-date, 0 skipped
> ========== ========== Build completed at 13:49 and took 00,390
> seconds ==========
> 

I was testing with MSVC compiler/headers from VS2019
It produces this message as well, but only on 28th line. In my
experience it means that typical reader will give up earlier.
In your part of the world it could be different :-)

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#120285

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2024-09-25 14:22 +0200
Message-ID<vd0vab$3m0aj$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#120272
On 25/09/2024 13:06, Michael S wrote:

> I was testing with MSVC compiler/headers from VS2019
> It produces this message as well, but only on 28th line. In my
> experience it means that typical reader will give up earlier.
> In your part of the world it could be different :-)
> 

This might depend on your build environment.  Sometimes what you see 
most easily is the last page of error messages, rather than the first 
page.  (Of course it is easiest if there is no more than a single page 
or screenful of messages!)

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#120273

FromMuttley@dastardlyhq.com
Date2024-09-25 11:12 +0000
Message-ID<vd0r7d$3ln45$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#120269
On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 13:11:44 +0300
Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> boringly babbled:
>Below is example of very simple function with very small
>template-related bug of sort that people sometimes do in real life.
>I tried 3 compilers. Each one produces more than 20 lines of error
>messages none of which was enlightening.
>
>#include <cstdint>
>#include <algorithm>
>
>void my_sort2(uint8_t* buf, int buflen, const uint8_t* trans_tab) 
>{
>  struct {
>    const uint8_t* tab;
>    bool operator() (uint8_t a, uint8_t b) { 
>      return tab[a] < tab[b];
>    }
>  } cmp;
>  cmp.tab = trans_tab;
>  std::sort(buf, buf+buflen, &cmp);
>}
>
>I don't know if with conceptized <algorithm> error reporting would
>work better. But it is worth a try, because current state is not
>satisfactory.

My version of Clang produced 305 lines of output. Yet right at the top:

t.cc:13:3: warning: template argument uses local type '(unnamed struct at t.cc:6
:3)' [-Wlocal-type-template-args]
  std::sort(buf, buf+buflen, &cmp);

Which is all it needed to print. The other 304 lines of garbage could have
been reserved for the -Wall option.

For some reason Bonita finds this concept (pun intended) had to understand.

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#120276

FromMichael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Date2024-09-25 14:30 +0300
Message-ID<20240925143021.00005cf4@yahoo.com>
In reply to#120273
On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 11:12:45 -0000 (UTC)
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 13:11:44 +0300
> Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> boringly babbled:
> >Below is example of very simple function with very small
> >template-related bug of sort that people sometimes do in real life.
> >I tried 3 compilers. Each one produces more than 20 lines of error
> >messages none of which was enlightening.
> >
> >#include <cstdint>
> >#include <algorithm>
> >
> >void my_sort2(uint8_t* buf, int buflen, const uint8_t* trans_tab) 
> >{
> >  struct {
> >    const uint8_t* tab;
> >    bool operator() (uint8_t a, uint8_t b) { 
> >      return tab[a] < tab[b];
> >    }
> >  } cmp;
> >  cmp.tab = trans_tab;
> >  std::sort(buf, buf+buflen, &cmp);
> >}
> >
> >I don't know if with conceptized <algorithm> error reporting would
> >work better. But it is worth a try, because current state is not
> >satisfactory.  
> 
> My version of Clang produced 305 lines of output. Yet right at the
> top:
> 
> t.cc:13:3: warning: template argument uses local type '(unnamed
> struct at t.cc:6 :3)' [-Wlocal-type-template-args]
>   std::sort(buf, buf+buflen, &cmp);
> 
> Which is all it needed to print. The other 304 lines of garbage could
> have been reserved for the -Wall option.
> 

First, it's warning, not error.
Second, I don't know about you, but I personally have no idea what
is 'local type' and why it possibly could be a problem.
Even if the warning is somehow related to actual bug, which I doubt, the
relationship is far from obvious.

> For some reason Bonita finds this concept (pun intended) had to
> understand.
> 

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