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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #124392 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-07-27 11:43 -0700 |
| Last post | 2026-08-03 20:40 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 120 — 7 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.c++
Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-27 11:43 -0700
Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-28 02:47 +0800
Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-27 15:07 -0700
Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-28 00:25 +0200
Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-27 16:09 -0700
Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-27 16:33 -0700
Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-27 15:48 -0700
Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 07:44 -0700
You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL (Was: Viswath & Charmaigne) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 17:11 +0200
Re: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL (Was: Viswath & Charmaigne) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 08:25 -0700
Re: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL (Was: Viswath & Charmaigne) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-29 23:49 +0800
Re: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL (Was: Viswath & Charmaigne) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 08:59 -0700
I don't care about Java, pi-WAM is pi-calculus and WAM (Re: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 18:05 +0200
Underneath pi-WAM is Hack VM, you can goto (Was: I don't care about Java, pi-WAM is pi-calculus and WAM) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 18:09 +0200
New addition to π-WAM is π-WAM Assembly (Was: Underneath pi-WAM is Hack VM, you can goto) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-09 19:45 +0200
Re: I don't care about Java, pi-WAM is pi-calculus and WAM (Re: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 09:11 -0700
A yellow mustard called Rossy Body (Was: I don't care about Java, pi-WAM is pi-calculus and WAM) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 18:30 +0200
Ignoramus or Ignorabimus: I don't care (π-WAM) (Was: A yellow mustard called Rossy Body) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 18:31 +0200
Hurry Rossy Boy, the blue bus is waiting (Was: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 17:32 +0200
Re: Hurry Rossy Boy, the blue bus is waiting (Was: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 08:36 -0700
Look how they advertized CUDA and logical threads (Was: Hurry Rossy Boy, the blue bus is waiting) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 17:43 +0200
Forget any arithmetization of product FSA (Was: Look how they advertized CUDA and logical threads) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 17:47 +0200
comp.lang.lisp (was: Re: Forget any arithmetization of product FSA) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-29 23:53 +0800
Re: Look how they advertized CUDA and logical threads (Was: Hurry Rossy Boy, the blue bus is waiting) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 08:53 -0700
There are two versions of Hack VM (Was: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 18:14 +0200
Hack VM has also a Prolog spec (Was: There are two versions of Hack VM) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 18:17 +0200
A better compiler is planned / What do you target? (Was: Hack VM has also a Prolog spec) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 18:22 +0200
It’s called . . . . enshittification (About the price tag for using a multifile/1) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-14 00:50 +0200
Budget AI Laptop 2026 versus Cray T3D 1995 (Re: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-05 14:24 +0200
A brain desease of 20 days [Rossy Boy] (Was: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines)) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 18:38 +0200
Rossy Boys tears could cool a data center [pi-WAM Interleaved Synchronized Emulator] Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 20:05 +0200
Re: Rossy Boys tears could cool a data center [pi-WAM Interleaved Synchronized Emulator] Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 11:13 -0700
I don't use Rust, you are crazy [Jump off a bridge, idiot] (Was: Rossy Boys tears could cool a data center [pi-WAM Interleaved Synchronized Emulator]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 20:22 +0200
Standing on the shoulders of giants (Re: I don't use Rust, you are crazy [Jump off a bridge, idiot]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-04 03:20 +0200
You Thief! Stealing Szemeredi, Aristotle, Leibniz, etc.. (Re: Standing on the shoulders of giants) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-04 15:18 +0200
How Rossy Boys plagiarism works [Copy Paste Slop] (Re: You Thief! Stealing Szemeredi, Aristotle, Leibniz, etc..) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-04 17:56 +0200
Postgres is in C! Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-30 03:46 +0800
Re: Postgres is in C! Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 13:47 -0700
Please don't extend your cross posting / What does abstract mean? (Was: Postgres is in C!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 23:00 +0200
Re: Please don't extend your cross posting / What does abstract mean? (Was: Postgres is in C!) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-30 21:05 +0800
Re: Please don't extend your cross posting / What does abstract mean? (Was: Postgres is in C!) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-07-30 14:46 +0000
Re: Please don't extend your cross posting / What does abstract mean? Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-07-30 16:00 +0000
Please don't extend your cross posting / What does abstract mean? (Was: Postgres is in C!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 23:05 +0200
Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java (was: Re: Postgres is in C!) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-30 21:20 +0800
Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-30 06:59 -0700
Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-30 07:24 -0700
Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 09:58 +0800
Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-30 23:19 +0800
Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-30 09:23 -0700
Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-30 09:36 -0700
Decorum (was: Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-31 23:07 +0800
Re: Decorum Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-31 23:09 +0800
Re: Decorum Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-31 08:36 -0700
Re: Decorum Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-31 08:44 -0700
Re: Decorum Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 10:38 +0800
Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 10:15 +0800
Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-04 23:31 -0700
Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 12:42 -0700
Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 13:24 -0700
Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 13:30 -0700
Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 13:45 -0700
Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 20:42 -0700
Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-07 09:55 +0800
Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-07 05:13 -0700
Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-07 05:59 -0700
Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-07 09:53 +0800
Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-06 20:11 -0700
Hack ecosystem ignorance paired with paranoia [Nand to Tetris] (Re: Postgres is in C!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 22:49 +0200
A funny Q16.16 experiment with Hack (Was: Hack ecosystem ignorance paired with paranoia [Nand to Tetris]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 23:10 +0200
Summer Challenge: libSQL = Prolog+Modes [VDBE versus π-WAM] (Re: A funny Q16.16 experiment with Hack) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-30 11:27 +0200
Re: Bullshit Authorized by Sarah Connor [EyeProlog Failure] (Re: Summer Challenge: libSQL = Prolog+Modes [VDBE versus π-WAM]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-12 20:30 +0200
RCan library(ironpaw) repurpose FFT hardware [Glimps into Ryzen AI 7 350] (Re: Hack ecosystem ignorance paired with paranoia) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 02:33 +0200
Can library(ironpaw) repurpose FFT hardware [Glimps into Ryzen AI 7 350] (Re: Hack ecosystem ignorance paired with paranoia) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 02:34 +0200
Turbo Vison, again (was: Re: Postgres is in C!) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-30 21:31 +0800
He uses "FIFO objects", and DMA and Noc [Glimps into Ryzen AI 7 350] (Re: A brain desease of 20 days [Rossy Boy])) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 12:15 +0200
Tablet and phone UBS-C remote debugging (Re: He uses "FIFO objects", and DMA and Noc) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 12:18 +0200
NPUs doing 2d chess comms (Manhattan Distance or L1 Norm) (Re: Tablet and phone UBS-C remote debugging) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 14:11 +0200
NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance (Re: NPUs doing 2d chess comms) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 14:23 +0200
Rossy Boy is neither Einstein nor Zweistein (Re: Viswath & Charmaigne) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 21:18 +0200
Re: Rossy Boy is neither Einstein nor Zweistein (Re: Viswath & Charmaigne) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-27 15:35 -0700
Clueless about MIMD as usual [Flynn's Taxonomy] (Was: Rossy Boy is neither Einstein nor Zweistein) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-28 11:25 +0200
Re: Clueless about MIMD as usual [Flynn's Taxonomy] (Was: Rossy Boy is neither Einstein nor Zweistein) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-28 20:39 -0700
confused rossy boy is confused (Was: Clueless about MIMD as usual [Flynn's Taxonomy]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 11:15 +0200
Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI more clever than rossy boy (Was: confused rossy boy is confused) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 11:18 +0200
Re: confused rossy boy is confused (Was: Clueless about MIMD as usual [Flynn's Taxonomy]) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-29 17:21 +0800
In AI Acceleration nobody cares about CivetWeb (Was: confused rossy boy is confused) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 11:27 +0200
Re: In AI Acceleration nobody cares about CivetWeb (Was: confused rossy boy is confused) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-29 17:40 +0800
Your strictness is your problem , not mine [See WebLLM] (Was: In AI Acceleration nobody cares about CivetWeb) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 11:46 +0200
Graphics Processing with Fortran 77 (was: Re: Your strictness is your problem , not mine) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-29 18:10 +0800
I am not in C, it is theory and C++ [Hybrid Approaches from KOAN/Fortran-S] (Was: Graphics Processing with Fortran 77) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 12:43 +0200
Java picky concerning JIT-ing [Luckier with C++/C or FORTRAN compilers?] (Re: I am not in C, it is theory and C++) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 12:53 +0200
Run with minimum HTTPS and .mjs type (Re: In AI Acceleration nobody cares about CivetWeb) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 11:48 +0200
Lamas in a cradle and Lamas on the edge [Red Pyjama] (Was: Run with minimum HTTPS and .mjs type) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 13:05 +0200
Synthetic Multilanguage Autoformalization Dataset [Informath project] (Re: Lamas in a cradle and Lamas on the edge [Red Pyjama]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-08 09:22 +0200
Six Proofs and Generally Inteligent Systems [EyeProlog Pseudo Scientism] (Re: Synthetic Multilanguage Autoformalization Dataset [Informath project]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-15 15:20 +0200
Everybody does eat and sleep [The SK hynix Story] (Re: Six Proofs and Generally Inteligent Systems [EyeProlog Pseudo Scientism]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-15 18:49 +0200
Re: confused rossy boy is confused (Was: Clueless about MIMD as usual [Flynn's Taxonomy]) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 14:42 -0700
Even send_color and recv_color can block [Cerebras Waver] (Was: confused rossy boy is confused) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 23:37 +0200
Re: Even send_color and recv_color can block [Cerebras Waver] (Was: confused rossy boy is confused) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-02 14:40 -0700
Re: Even send_color and recv_color can block [Cerebras Waver] (Was: confused rossy boy is confused) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-02 14:43 -0700
You don't understand that compute shaders are tasks (Was: Even send_color and recv_color can block [Cerebras Waver]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 23:45 +0200
You don't understand that compute shaders are tasks (Re: Even send_color and recv_color can block [Cerebras Waver]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 23:46 +0200
Ignoramus / Ignorabimus Barometer: Almost 1 Month (Re: You don't understand that compute shaders are tasks) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 00:09 +0200
Homework: Game Engine in WebGPU (Re: Ignoramus / Ignorabimus Barometer: Almost 1 Month) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 02:08 +0200
Re: Homework: Game Engine in WebGPU (Re: Ignoramus / Ignorabimus Barometer: Almost 1 Month) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 11:55 -0700
You are not correctly thinking (Was: Homework: Game Engine in WebGPU) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 21:04 +0200
Re: You are not correctly thinking (Was: Homework: Game Engine in WebGPU) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 12:32 -0700
You don't understand the economy of an AI Laptop (Was: You are not correctly thinking) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 22:24 +0200
You don't understand producer , workers , consumer (Was: You don't understand the economy of an AI Laptop ) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 22:37 +0200
Re: You don't understand producer , workers , consumer (Was: You don't understand the economy of an AI Laptop ) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 14:29 -0700
Know nothing and forget what you posted day before (Was: You don't understand producer , workers , consumer) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 23:38 +0200
Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-30 06:49 -0700
Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-07-30 14:55 -0700
Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-31 12:55 -0700
Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-31 13:05 -0700
Ljubljana School versus Zurich School (Was: Viswath & Charmaigne) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 20:14 +0200
Re: Ljubljana School versus Zurich School (Was: Viswath & Charmaigne) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-04 02:21 +0800
pi-WAM uses ADA RendezVous (Was: Ljubljana School versus Zurich School) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 20:35 +0200
A spinlock rewrite will be necessary (Was: pi-WAM uses ADA RendezVous) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 21:00 +0200
Big thanks to Ljubljana School [Searching 0xCAFFEE] (Was: Ljubljana School versus Zurich School) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 20:40 +0200
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| From | Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-05 13:45 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java |
| Message-ID | <zo-dnRa8f6BWPe73nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #124597 |
On 08/05/2026 01:24 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote: > On 08/05/2026 12:42 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: >> On 8/4/2026 11:31 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >> [...] >>> Agreeably, Meyers' C++ books were very solid, >>> and almost all the advice is sound. For a decade >>> they were basically required as part of code-style, >>> pretty much everything in them.[...] >> >> Fwiw, I had the joy of being able to converse with Scott over in >> comp.programming.threads back in the day. >> >> (imvvho, a good thread to read all off when you have some time to burn) >> https://groups.google.com/g/comp.programming.threads/c/KepRbFWBJA4/m/uEQYE9sfji0J >> >> >> >> >> I posted as SenderX for a while before I used my real name. > > About "Effective C++" and "More Effective C++", about > through "Effective C++" and about 2/3 through "More Effective C++" > is considered a glossary and methodology, an opinion and an approach, > then that later accounts of Meyers, interesting, are a bit out-there, as > it were. Then there's a sort of "Effective Java" or Josh Bloch, also > considered pretty sound an opinion as well, take it or leave it. > > "Code-style" beyond the cosmetic, for patterns and practices or > ye olde "best practices", is for a structured approach and an > object-oriented approach, since whatever functional or procedural, > or the imperative languages, abstractly always have those as models > of the routines, then for example about the functional model of > procedural languages and the procedural model of functional languages, > and so on. > > I've always (and only) posted as myself. > > Back in the 1980's a close friend had a Commodore, a phone line, and a modem, and another a Commodore, a modem, and _two_ phone lines, which was considered extravagant, while allowing the modem to be on-line while making and taking telephone calls, upon which they had a "bulletin-board-system", fondly known as a BBS, upon which they traded brief files of hacking manuals, cook-books, and crude erotica. So, that was probably my first experience with "login" and "alias", not to be confused with "cisco and radius", and "admin", not to be confused with "identd and ppp", then my first admin alias, and one may aver my last, was "The Faceless One", who like an adolescent before learning to be honest, was on a power-trip. That character is characterized as a dick, a stalker, and a leech, and a bit of a troll, if not so much a lurker, and simply not a regular. Some people never outgrow that phase. Of course I'm often "root", or "sa", yet mostly just "r", and while I understand the utility of hypervisors and virts, am pretty much against them rooting people. Anyways, "The Faceless One" is a sort of operator, frozen in time. FinnEcces / 12ende12 <- world-ranked < 1000 from time to time Those "games" were decades ago, while though these days I can still pass Civ VI on "immortal/marathon/ancient/huge", and even "deity" difficulty with the luck of the draw, as brings memories of "Archon" and "Populous". dib dib dib / dob dob dob
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| From | Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-05 20:42 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java |
| Message-ID | <kludnTouZ6Isn-n3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #124590 |
On 08/04/2026 11:31 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote: > On 08/04/2026 07:15 PM, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: >> On 31/07/2026 12:23 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >> >>> One might suggest that the "Java Trails" tutorials and "Core Java" >>> and "Java in a Nutshell" would give an authentic introduction that >>> were new then and old now, and correct, if not "current", then and now. >>> >>> https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/ >> >> >> Thank you. I've begun to create my own Java course, slightly based on >> the material in the Java trail. I feel there's a lot to cover for >> absolute beginners, so I'll take it slowly and write my own intro- >> duction. >> >>> >>> For something like C++, my first link would be >>> "https://cppreference.com", usually. Then after >>> the tutorials there is only API javadoc the API documentation, >>> which is also surfaced in the IDE's. >>> >> >> >> Well, my first inclination is to reach up to /Effective Modern C++/ by >> Meyers, on my shelf; and then Stroustrup's 4th edition if I can be >> bothered to read him again. I think I prefer the 3rd edition anyway. >> >>> >>> Java11 and C++ 11 are probably appropriate baselines. >>> >>> I've programmed in both Swing and Win32, more low-level than high-level, >>> Java's worker threads and sychronization utilities >>> vis-a-vis Win32's message-pump and message-crackers and the user-defined >>> pointer in the HWND's MSG, make for various >>> accounts then for things like OLE/OLE2/COM/DCOM/ActiveX >>> as about the .NET IL ASM CLR runtime with C#, VB.NET, F#, >>> C/C++, and so on. >>> >>> >> >> Well, as you've no doubt noticed, I've added Turbo Vision to my reper- >> toire of GUI toolkits recently. My personal go-to toolkit in C, is IUP. >> >> That's also sufficiently obscure that I'll link the original. >> >> https://iup.sourceforge.net/ >> >> Note that if you're using Open Watcom -- at least the 1.9 edition from >> openwatcom.org, you can just use the 32bit binaries for Visual Studio. >> >> You don't have to compile your own. The C linkage hasn't changed, and >> these two compilers are fairly compatible. >> >> I offhand don't know about >> Digital Mars, nor Pelle's C; but if you have 32bit editions of either, >> it'll probably work. I have no idea, nor expectations that GCC and/or >> clang will work with that build. >> >> It'll be interesting to know if anyone here has experimented with this >> build of IUP and the Borland 5.5 free command line compiler, and/or >> a more recent build from Embarcadero. >> >> I'll also be interested to know about even more obscure C compilers that >> work on the Windows platform. >> >> >> About runtimes, I'm still in the Java part of /Crafting Interpreters/, >> it seems I forgot to continue that course, so thank you for reminding me >> about it. I have the feeling the 2nd part in C will cover building my >> own runtime. Well, for some value of "my own." >> >> >> Have you ever built your own programming language environment with a new >> runtime in C? > > Agreeably, Meyers' C++ books were very solid, > and almost all the advice is sound. For a decade > they were basically required as part of code-style, > pretty much everything in them. > > It's been quite a while since Borland was among the best available > compilers, what with Delphi and so on, or C/C++. Then, there was > djgpp and also Navia's lcc a C compiler, on Win32, these were > greatly appreciated, these days MinGW64. Then Visual C++ of > course was the premier environment. Kai, Wind River, wxWorks, > I don't know them. > > > I've never written a compiler yet have designed language. > > When reading a book something like "Advanced Compiler Optimizations", > these days there's much of the e-graphs for re-write rules and the like, > about porting code besides mapping to concrete forms. > > The term-rewriting and term-graph-rewriting accounts have a lot > going on, with basically the idea that anything can be written > or ported to any language. Porting code of course is of course > what they used to call it instead of "rewriting" the code. > > Type theory and exercises in type of course have that there's a > great account for both the narrowing and widening, and inversions > of types and with regards to unions of types and so on, > then "Patterns" is its own and a great field, "Patterns" > since the '90's and object-orientation and the like, > are great ways of organizing routine, I'm quite a thorough > believer in abstraction of the domain objects and four facilities > like DB MQ FS WS the database, message-queue, file-system, and > web-services, these sorts of "four facilities" about "four resources" > CPU RAM DISK NET, "four surrounds", other sorts general categorizations > of all the things, I have an ideology. > > Experience in the distributed-systems environment or the dot-com > world or the enterprise, I like to think that I've read the > source code, and knew what it was. I've read tons of the code. > > Then, the "glue logic" after Pareto law or 80/20 rule, there's > something to be said for the right hammer for the right nail, > these days awash in "bucket-o-dependency-paste". > > There's something to be said for pure C++, while, inevitably > there's at least one macro, and inevitably at least one > "extern C", and inevitably at least one import of a C header, > usually with the goal of wrapping that directly in C++ > and hiding and safing the acquire/release, then about > "single abstract methods", vis-a-vis, "related functions", > then for "lambdas", as a simplfied account of "function pointers", > while though I still believe in "callbacks" instead of "async". > I do tend to think of things more as pointers than as objects in the > scope. Java's objects are kind of more like pointers than C++'s objects, > with always new/delete, and smart pointers and unique_pointer. > > > > Thanks for writing, good luck with your endeavors. > > > Then, writing the expression, nested expression, and that it's to reverse-unroll to an instruction listing, brings the idea that the equivalent functional/procedural forms have these implicit : subscripts, bounds, arrangements, cases, that are then for the "typed, templating assembler language" the idea that each input and output type has its array bounds and widths and constituent words, then that the implication is to derive the un-rolling of that, then for example where "v-texel" is in a "vr-block" in a "vvr-block", more implicits for the reference the accessor, that variables are accessors and functions are interpolators, that the accessors, as sources and destinations, or sources and sinks, and interpolators, that have some specialization for the types x dimensions, then compose in a way that has a normal form as a code listing of instructions, ..., so that then those are broken-out (enumerated) and written-out. So, to define FILL_VARIBYTE as INSERTHILO( v-texel-varibyte, UTF8TAG(EXTRACTHILO(v-texel))) is that it enumerates over hi and lo for EXTRACT and INSERT, and places them back since they're aligned, skipping over that the UTF8TAG was applied, which is applied to both hi and lo, each of its 8 bytes. FILL_TEXEL_VARIBYTE (vr-texel, vr-texel-varibyte) = EXTRACTHILO(vr-texel) . UTF8TAG . INSERTHILO(vr-texel-varibyte) FILL_VR_VARIBYTE(vr-src, vr-dst) = EXTRACT(vr-src) . UTF8TAG . INSERT(vr-dst) Then, the context of an accessor, and contexts of EXTRACT and INSERT, have that those are accessors, FILL_VR_VARIBYTE(vr-src(vr-block-1), vr-dst(vr-block-1)) = EXTRACT(vr-src) . UTF8TAG . INSERT(vr-dst) has that accessors are making accessors, then for example, that "." is both like concatenation, and, like dereference, where it were so that the compilation off the declarations, generated (made derived) that in a higher-level language, it results a code-model, for a sort of "interpolating-interpreter", and a "functional language", that has a natural form as a procedural language, if not so much vice-versa, though, that it does, after invariants. https://github.com/codereport/array-language-comparisons So, to sort this out a bit, figure that there's an assembler language with instruction listings, or a procedural language like "BASIC" or something. Then, the idea is that accounts of loops are left out, instead for accounts of "interpolations", interpolating from action to action, with that the loops are implicit, and of fixed dimensions and un-rolled, then about that the operations: are dyadic usually with two-many operands src/dst, yet they also have the implicit data-type its width, and as it contains other data-types as a collection its length, those being usually enough ratios of powers-of-two, so that then when concatenating instructions or interpolators (transformers), that between the poles of them are interpolated the instructions of the inner body, un-rolled, or for example when two instructions are defined to be specialized through an outer body, the implicits of that. So, width and length are relative, while, in the actual data-types, constants. This then would be key for writing the SIMD/SWAR, because the SIMD functions would be the same as the SWAR, ..., and about how it goes that then besides between operands of the same size/data-type/dimensions, are halving/doubling or insert/extract. Then, why this is relevant to languages like Java or C++ or C, is that the expressions like EXTRACT . UTF8TAG . INSERT, happen to look just like field references, for what are structs of "interpolator bodies", that then at compile-time, a recursive and exhaustive sort of building up the declarations and definitions, can then result the simple sort of combinators I suppose, since the types are sort of simplified because they're only data-types with relative-width and relative-length, and signed or unsigned integer or floating-point definition in the instruction sets, then that "re-write rules" or "template specializations" can be written and found in the "recursive and exhaustive" sort of compilation, these kinds of things. LOAD_OR_AND_STORE(src, const, dst) = LOAD(src) . OR(const) . STORE(dst) Then, this idea of an "accessors and interpolators" language, for example, it's a sort of language. The idea is that interpolators are assignable, and then that's at compile-time, and results an instruction listing, that's fixed. I just made that up so it's yet a sort of, "design of language", and a description of a compiler, about "typed and templating assembler".
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| From | Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-07 09:55 +0800 |
| Subject | Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java |
| Message-ID | <rWadS.33$48x6.18@fx09.ams4> |
| In reply to | #124600 |
On 06/08/2026 11:42 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: > I just made that up so it's yet a sort of, "design of language", > and a description of a compiler, about "typed and templating > assembler". > > Some of that read like brainstorming, other things read like output from an L.L.M. I'm not sure you need me to comment on anything, as it's your brainstorm. Am I wrong about that? Happy brainstorming! -- Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/ I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
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| From | Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-07 05:13 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java |
| Message-ID | <nA6dneP5mct-Vuj3nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #124602 |
On 08/06/2026 06:55 PM, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: > On 06/08/2026 11:42 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: > >> I just made that up so it's yet a sort of, "design of language", >> and a description of a compiler, about "typed and templating >> assembler". >> >> > > Some of that read like brainstorming, other things read like output > from an L.L.M. I'm not sure you need me to comment on anything, as > it's your brainstorm. Am I wrong about that? > > > Happy brainstorming! "Hello? Yes, this is Usenet Post." A "large" language model is just a matter of perspective, .... About "type theory", and that there's a sort of different account when the types in assembler are all fixed-length or "scalars", then a "fits-and-sits" type-theory instead of an "is-a/has-a" type-theory, like a 64-bit word "fits" two 32-bit words and eight bytes "sit" in a 64-bit word, makes for a sort of, "scalar type-theory", about that all the ratios between types are compile-time invariants, is an example of an idea. So "typed" and "templating" basically is for generics and alignment then derivations, ..., "products" of macros and parameterization, with "type theory" making for a compiler a model of what "fits-and-sits", then about how to relate that to "is-a/has-a", or the "lambda-calculus", of type theory, is sort of an idea of a, "scalar lambda-calculus". I don't know anybody who's framed it in quite that way, yet, surely it's the most usual kind of thing, ....
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| From | Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-07 05:59 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java |
| Message-ID | <udicnSSE-bVPS-j3nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #124604 |
On 08/07/2026 05:13 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: > On 08/06/2026 06:55 PM, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: >> On 06/08/2026 11:42 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >> >>> I just made that up so it's yet a sort of, "design of language", >>> and a description of a compiler, about "typed and templating >>> assembler". >>> >>> >> >> Some of that read like brainstorming, other things read like output >> from an L.L.M. I'm not sure you need me to comment on anything, as >> it's your brainstorm. Am I wrong about that? >> >> >> Happy brainstorming! > > > "Hello? Yes, this is Usenet Post." > > > A "large" language model is just a matter of perspective, .... > > > About "type theory", and that there's a sort of different > account when the types in assembler are all fixed-length > or "scalars", then a "fits-and-sits" type-theory instead > of an "is-a/has-a" type-theory, like a 64-bit word "fits" > two 32-bit words and eight bytes "sit" in a 64-bit word, > makes for a sort of, "scalar type-theory", about that > all the ratios between types are compile-time invariants, > is an example of an idea. > > So "typed" and "templating" basically is for generics > and alignment then derivations, ..., "products" of > macros and parameterization, with "type theory" making > for a compiler a model of what "fits-and-sits", then > about how to relate that to "is-a/has-a", or the > "lambda-calculus", of type theory, is sort of an > idea of a, "scalar lambda-calculus". > > I don't know anybody who's framed it in quite that way, > yet, surely it's the most usual kind of thing, .... > > It's all "relations", then ideas about syntax and language mostly are about contriving that what's already, "in the language". For example I notice it's a trend this days in C++ to overload "|" and use it for chaining expressions, "in the language", it's an idiom, then that type-theory makes for the inference of what it means, about that category-theory and type-theory are two different theories. High-level languages usually involve at least two different theories, of the fundamental elements, then are given "primitives" that relate the various kinds of theories kinds of elements, or that it's given to the "compiler" to so interpret the expressions in one as expressions in the other. That "it's all relations" has that two things relate or don't, what kind of relations they are then is a matter of all their relations, recursively, then that most usually connected to arithmetic, algebra, or geometry, arithmetizations, algebraizations, and geometrizations, since they already have structure as relations, or, just tables of relations, like relational-algebra, often well-known as "a relational data-base management system with relational algebra then also rows and nulls". So, thinking about syntax, then there are only so many syntactical elements or terminals or symbols usually on a keyboard, a usual sort of 101-key keyboard with "qwerty" and "ASCII", then about how to make for assembler language, syntax to define the composition of "functions", which are a simple sort of "function", that always have two inputs and one output, or "dyadic" functions. Then, the "values" in this kind of idea of "typed-and-templating-assembler", are alike in that they're scalars, and various in their size. Then, accounts of arithmetic and the like, vis-a-vis "logic" or binary relations, then comparison, is for that these live in the chip, in a world where there are no stalls, branches, calls, or faults. #EXTRACT = #INSERT #DECODE = 1 EXTRACT > DECODE < INSERT ~ EXTRACT . DECODE . INSERT Then, there are no loops, yet EXTRACT is a generic, or just "un-sized" #DECODE is 1, and INSERT is a generic that goes along with EXTRACT, and their concatenation "interpolates" the loop. Then, in a world without loops, though interpolation, has that concatenation of the expressions, implies, to be inferred, a loop, has for a theory of types or a sub-theory of the theory of types, about how these sorts of things "go". #T = 2 #ADD = 1 T(a, b) > ADD A B . ADD Then, it's kind of like "well, then "ADD" is a recursive definition", and it's like, "well, maybe that's what functions are". So, account of language, "in the language", are idiom, then for languages with higher types, and over-riding or simply enough defining the operators, it varies.
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| From | Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-07 09:53 +0800 |
| Subject | Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java |
| Message-ID | <cUadS.32$48x6.10@fx09.ams4> |
| In reply to | #124590 |
On 05/08/2026 2:31 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote: > On 08/04/2026 07:15 PM, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: >> On 31/07/2026 12:23 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >> >>> One might suggest that the "Java Trails" tutorials and "Core Java" >>> and "Java in a Nutshell" would give an authentic introduction that >>> were new then and old now, and correct, if not "current", then and now. >>> >>> https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/ >> >> >> Thank you. I've begun to create my own Java course, slightly based on >> the material in the Java trail. I feel there's a lot to cover for >> absolute beginners, so I'll take it slowly and write my own intro- >> duction. >> >>> >>> For something like C++, my first link would be >>> "https://cppreference.com", usually. Then after >>> the tutorials there is only API javadoc the API documentation, >>> which is also surfaced in the IDE's. >>> >> >> >> Well, my first inclination is to reach up to /Effective Modern C++/ by >> Meyers, on my shelf; and then Stroustrup's 4th edition if I can be >> bothered to read him again. I think I prefer the 3rd edition anyway. >> >>> >>> Java11 and C++ 11 are probably appropriate baselines. >>> >>> I've programmed in both Swing and Win32, more low-level than high-level, >>> Java's worker threads and sychronization utilities >>> vis-a-vis Win32's message-pump and message-crackers and the user-defined >>> pointer in the HWND's MSG, make for various >>> accounts then for things like OLE/OLE2/COM/DCOM/ActiveX >>> as about the .NET IL ASM CLR runtime with C#, VB.NET, F#, >>> C/C++, and so on. >>> >>> >> >> Well, as you've no doubt noticed, I've added Turbo Vision to my reper- >> toire of GUI toolkits recently. My personal go-to toolkit in C, is IUP. >> >> That's also sufficiently obscure that I'll link the original. >> >> https://iup.sourceforge.net/ >> >> Note that if you're using Open Watcom -- at least the 1.9 edition from >> openwatcom.org, you can just use the 32bit binaries for Visual Studio. >> >> You don't have to compile your own. The C linkage hasn't changed, and >> these two compilers are fairly compatible. >> >> I offhand don't know about >> Digital Mars, nor Pelle's C; but if you have 32bit editions of either, >> it'll probably work. I have no idea, nor expectations that GCC and/or >> clang will work with that build. >> >> It'll be interesting to know if anyone here has experimented with this >> build of IUP and the Borland 5.5 free command line compiler, and/or >> a more recent build from Embarcadero. >> >> I'll also be interested to know about even more obscure C compilers that >> work on the Windows platform. >> >> >> About runtimes, I'm still in the Java part of /Crafting Interpreters/, >> it seems I forgot to continue that course, so thank you for reminding me >> about it. I have the feeling the 2nd part in C will cover building my >> own runtime. Well, for some value of "my own." >> >> >> Have you ever built your own programming language environment with a new >> runtime in C? > > Agreeably, Meyers' C++ books were very solid, > and almost all the advice is sound. For a decade > they were basically required as part of code-style, > pretty much everything in them. At the moment, I have only the one. And of course Stroustrup that nobody ever reads. I guess he lost it, and I haven't heard of any- one recommend his book since the 3rd. I hope I won't need more Meyers books before I start receiving pay- checks. > > It's been quite a while since Borland was among the best available > compilers, what with Delphi and so on, or C/C++. Then, there was > djgpp and also Navia's lcc a C compiler, on Win32, these were > greatly appreciated, these days MinGW64. Then Visual C++ of > course was the premier environment. Kai, Wind River, wxWorks, > I don't know them. > > > I've never written a compiler yet have designed language. While I have had interest in the compiler technology, and never designed a language. > > When reading a book something like "Advanced Compiler Optimizations", > these days there's much of the e-graphs for re-write rules and the like, > about porting code besides mapping to concrete forms. I believe you mean /Optimizing Compilers for Modern Architectures/ by Allen Kennedy; you seem to be to talking about the paper by David Padua and Michael J. Wolfe -- which I haven't read. > > The term-rewriting and term-graph-rewriting accounts have a lot > going on, with basically the idea that anything can be written > or ported to any language. Porting code of course is of course > what they used to call it instead of "rewriting" the code. Yes, with enough effort, one can even process the binary code, put it into graphs, convert to SSA, optimize, and collapse again into a diff- erent binary code. I believe that's what they do, when they run things under the Rosetta stone, by the fruit vendor. > > Type theory and exercises in type of course have that there's a > great account for both the narrowing and widening, and inversions > of types and with regards to unions of types and so on, > then "Patterns" is its own and a great field, "Patterns" > since the '90's and object-orientation and the like, > are great ways of organizing routine, I'm quite a thorough > believer in abstraction of the domain objects and four facilities > like DB MQ FS WS the database, message-queue, file-system, and > web-services, these sorts of "four facilities" about "four resources" > CPU RAM DISK NET, "four surrounds", other sorts general categorizations > of all the things, I have an ideology. I've started to read books about type theory. At the core, it seems to be a mathematical discipline about keeping meta data about the var- iables we use in programming languages. If I'm mistaken about that, I'm mistaken. I don't have these books here, and don't feel a pressing need to buy 2nd copies. > > Experience in the distributed-systems environment or the dot-com > world or the enterprise, I like to think that I've read the > source code, and knew what it was. I've read tons of the code. I've mostly worked for the /smol/ companies, and by nature of my skillset, almost exclusively worked alone or at best in a team of two. This is a pattern that has repeated for the last 16 years, so it's unlikely to change in the near future. Let's see what the new job has for me. I haven't turned in the /pre-screening/ questionnaire yet, but I have high hopes I'll pass everything. > > Then, the "glue logic" after Pareto law or 80/20 rule, there's > something to be said for the right hammer for the right nail, > these days awash in "bucket-o-dependency-paste". I'm not familiar with that. If you feel it's important, please let me know. > > There's something to be said for pure C++, while, inevitably > there's at least one macro, and inevitably at least one > "extern C", and inevitably at least one import of a C header, > usually with the goal of wrapping that directly in C++ > and hiding and safing the acquire/release, then about > "single abstract methods", vis-a-vis, "related functions", > then for "lambdas", as a simplfied account of "function pointers", > while though I still believe in "callbacks" instead of "async". > I do tend to think of things more as pointers than as objects in the > scope. Java's objects are kind of more like pointers than C++'s objects, > with always new/delete, and smart pointers and unique_pointer. I hope I won't get trapped by any of the new C++ features, in the new job. Yes, a lot of people get trapped by Java's pointers. It's very easy to /leak memory/ in Java if one doesn't realize sometimes it's necessary to null the pointers, and play well with the garbage collector. > > > > Thanks for writing, good luck with your endeavors. > > > You too! -- Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/ I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
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| From | Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-06 20:11 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java |
| Message-ID | <C9KdnVmYPYMj0ej3nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #124601 |
On 08/06/2026 06:53 PM, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: > On 05/08/2026 2:31 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >> On 08/04/2026 07:15 PM, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: >>> On 31/07/2026 12:23 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>> >>>> One might suggest that the "Java Trails" tutorials and "Core Java" >>>> and "Java in a Nutshell" would give an authentic introduction that >>>> were new then and old now, and correct, if not "current", then and now. >>>> >>>> https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/ >>> >>> >>> Thank you. I've begun to create my own Java course, slightly based on >>> the material in the Java trail. I feel there's a lot to cover for >>> absolute beginners, so I'll take it slowly and write my own intro- >>> duction. >>> >>>> >>>> For something like C++, my first link would be >>>> "https://cppreference.com", usually. Then after >>>> the tutorials there is only API javadoc the API documentation, >>>> which is also surfaced in the IDE's. >>>> >>> >>> >>> Well, my first inclination is to reach up to /Effective Modern C++/ by >>> Meyers, on my shelf; and then Stroustrup's 4th edition if I can be >>> bothered to read him again. I think I prefer the 3rd edition anyway. >>> >>>> >>>> Java11 and C++ 11 are probably appropriate baselines. >>>> >>>> I've programmed in both Swing and Win32, more low-level than >>>> high-level, >>>> Java's worker threads and sychronization utilities >>>> vis-a-vis Win32's message-pump and message-crackers and the >>>> user-defined >>>> pointer in the HWND's MSG, make for various >>>> accounts then for things like OLE/OLE2/COM/DCOM/ActiveX >>>> as about the .NET IL ASM CLR runtime with C#, VB.NET, F#, >>>> C/C++, and so on. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Well, as you've no doubt noticed, I've added Turbo Vision to my reper- >>> toire of GUI toolkits recently. My personal go-to toolkit in C, is IUP. >>> >>> That's also sufficiently obscure that I'll link the original. >>> >>> https://iup.sourceforge.net/ >>> >>> Note that if you're using Open Watcom -- at least the 1.9 edition from >>> openwatcom.org, you can just use the 32bit binaries for Visual Studio. >>> >>> You don't have to compile your own. The C linkage hasn't changed, and >>> these two compilers are fairly compatible. >>> >>> I offhand don't know about >>> Digital Mars, nor Pelle's C; but if you have 32bit editions of either, >>> it'll probably work. I have no idea, nor expectations that GCC and/or >>> clang will work with that build. >>> >>> It'll be interesting to know if anyone here has experimented with this >>> build of IUP and the Borland 5.5 free command line compiler, and/or >>> a more recent build from Embarcadero. >>> >>> I'll also be interested to know about even more obscure C compilers that >>> work on the Windows platform. >>> >>> >>> About runtimes, I'm still in the Java part of /Crafting Interpreters/, >>> it seems I forgot to continue that course, so thank you for reminding me >>> about it. I have the feeling the 2nd part in C will cover building my >>> own runtime. Well, for some value of "my own." >>> >>> >>> Have you ever built your own programming language environment with a new >>> runtime in C? >> >> Agreeably, Meyers' C++ books were very solid, >> and almost all the advice is sound. For a decade >> they were basically required as part of code-style, >> pretty much everything in them. > > > At the moment, I have only the one. And of course Stroustrup that > nobody ever reads. I guess he lost it, and I haven't heard of any- > one recommend his book since the 3rd. > > I hope I won't need more Meyers books before I start receiving pay- > checks. > >> >> It's been quite a while since Borland was among the best available >> compilers, what with Delphi and so on, or C/C++. Then, there was >> djgpp and also Navia's lcc a C compiler, on Win32, these were >> greatly appreciated, these days MinGW64. Then Visual C++ of >> course was the premier environment. Kai, Wind River, wxWorks, >> I don't know them. >> >> >> I've never written a compiler yet have designed language. > > While I have had interest in the compiler technology, and never designed > a language. > >> >> When reading a book something like "Advanced Compiler Optimizations", >> these days there's much of the e-graphs for re-write rules and the like, >> about porting code besides mapping to concrete forms. > > I believe you mean /Optimizing Compilers for Modern Architectures/ by > Allen Kennedy; you seem to be to talking about the paper by David Padua > and Michael J. Wolfe -- which I haven't read. >> >> The term-rewriting and term-graph-rewriting accounts have a lot >> going on, with basically the idea that anything can be written >> or ported to any language. Porting code of course is of course >> what they used to call it instead of "rewriting" the code. > > > > Yes, with enough effort, one can even process the binary code, put it > into graphs, convert to SSA, optimize, and collapse again into a diff- > erent binary code. > > I believe that's what they do, when they run things under the Rosetta > stone, by the fruit vendor. > >> >> Type theory and exercises in type of course have that there's a >> great account for both the narrowing and widening, and inversions >> of types and with regards to unions of types and so on, >> then "Patterns" is its own and a great field, "Patterns" >> since the '90's and object-orientation and the like, >> are great ways of organizing routine, I'm quite a thorough >> believer in abstraction of the domain objects and four facilities >> like DB MQ FS WS the database, message-queue, file-system, and >> web-services, these sorts of "four facilities" about "four resources" >> CPU RAM DISK NET, "four surrounds", other sorts general categorizations >> of all the things, I have an ideology. > > > > I've started to read books about type theory. At the core, it seems > to be a mathematical discipline about keeping meta data about the var- > iables we use in programming languages. If I'm mistaken about that, > I'm mistaken. I don't have these books here, and don't feel a pressing > need to buy 2nd copies. > >> >> Experience in the distributed-systems environment or the dot-com >> world or the enterprise, I like to think that I've read the >> source code, and knew what it was. I've read tons of the code. > > I've mostly worked for the /smol/ companies, and by nature of my > skillset, almost exclusively worked alone or at best in a team of > two. This is a pattern that has repeated for the last 16 years, so > it's unlikely to change in the near future. Let's see what the new > job has for me. I haven't turned in the /pre-screening/ questionnaire > yet, but I have high hopes I'll pass everything. > >> >> Then, the "glue logic" after Pareto law or 80/20 rule, there's >> something to be said for the right hammer for the right nail, >> these days awash in "bucket-o-dependency-paste". > > I'm not familiar with that. If you feel it's important, please let > me know. > >> >> There's something to be said for pure C++, while, inevitably >> there's at least one macro, and inevitably at least one >> "extern C", and inevitably at least one import of a C header, >> usually with the goal of wrapping that directly in C++ >> and hiding and safing the acquire/release, then about >> "single abstract methods", vis-a-vis, "related functions", >> then for "lambdas", as a simplfied account of "function pointers", >> while though I still believe in "callbacks" instead of "async". >> I do tend to think of things more as pointers than as objects in the >> scope. Java's objects are kind of more like pointers than C++'s objects, >> with always new/delete, and smart pointers and unique_pointer. > > I hope I won't get trapped by any of the new C++ features, in the new > job. > > Yes, a lot of people get trapped by Java's pointers. It's very easy to > /leak memory/ in Java if one doesn't realize sometimes it's necessary to > null the pointers, and play well with the garbage collector. > >> >> >> >> Thanks for writing, good luck with your endeavors. >> >> >> > > You too! I'm a fan of Stroustrup, and have copies of both 3'rd and Special editions. The Special edition does have some extended narrative, and from the time, was quite suitable as both desktop reference and paperweight. That and something like the "Standard C++ IOStreams and Locales" go together. Dangling references and unclosed resource handles are people's own faults, about something like how reference counting mechanisms are yet remarkably relevant from the age when people put away their tools. Then people went to unique_ptr after smart_ptr and shared_ptr, these things neatly hiding reference-counting and ownership. Topicality, staying on topic, respecting the forum, these are good things, while yet, in the desert, when the oasis dries up, sooner or later all the creatures come down to the watering hole.
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| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-29 22:49 +0200 |
| Subject | Hack ecosystem ignorance paired with paranoia [Nand to Tetris] (Re: Postgres is in C!) |
| Message-ID | <114dovr$kf2n$2@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #124452 |
Hi, > Who exactly is the thief? Does this person > have stats in the Rogue class in dungeons > and dragons? The conspiracy theory of a stealing of Torso VDBE, by Rossy Boy, is probably a result of complete ignorance of the Hack ecosystem. Hack is a very popular computer science project, with a couple of subprojects in hardware and software. It goes also by the name Nand to Tetris, and is programming language agnositic. You can do Hack experiments in any programming language, be it BASIC, ADA or Rust. Nobody cares. The gist are projects like here, first to educate yourself about Hack: https://www.nand2tetris.org/course And then to use Hack in different contexts: https://www.nand2tetris.org/copy-of-talks For didactic purposes, I used Hack for my WebGPU experiment. I didn't even take a look at Torso VDBE, why should I? Hack is nicely documented, has even a book, and fusing the two 16-bit instruction types A and D, into a single 32-bit instruction stream, is nowhere patented. Bye Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson schrieb: > On 30/07/2026 2:13 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: > >> https://www.theregister.com/databases/2026/07/29/after-rewriting-sqlite- >> in-rust-turso-turns-its-sights-on-postgres/5279835 >> >> I don't much care about Rust. It's yet another Google product, >> with the idea of not having exception handling, then supposedly >> it's efficient and safe, yet, it's efficient by not being safe, >> and safe by not being efficient. Then there's the macro/metaprogramming >> front-end, which basically doesn't validate >> like templates or otherwise for compile-time invariants, >> that is basically like people who use string substititution instead >> of object models, who all suffer injection attacks. > > Personally, I like Postgres in C, and I hope it stays there. I used to > maintain PL/Java, and got intimately familiar with some of the limi- > tations of the JNI interface. And while there's some new Java foreign > function interface now, it doesn't replace JNI. Especially for projects > that embed the JVM like PL/Java. > > I haven't contributed to that project for maybe one and half decade, and > now that I'm using Java again -- a project I'll mention in another > thread --[1] I may just resume some duties in PL/Java. But that's a > future adventure that may or may not happen. > > So, I was going to say something about Postgres? Right, I'm sure the > author of Postgres-in-Rust will run into some of the problems people > always run into when they attempt to rewrite other large projects, and > that's not learning from the prior mistakes. I try to avoid that. > > Some of that I learned the hard way, and some of that I learned by read- > ing the /Mythical Man Month/. I don't remember the author's name, and > my physical copy is not in my current library, but I believe the author > is famous enough I don't need to mention him by name. > > >> >> >> This latest manic episode has that in some more clinical or caring >> settings, then one might wonder over the author's need to get help >> or whether they're lost their mittens. In another view, though, >> that's crazy-town and it's not a good place and we don't go there >> any-more, population burse-scheiss-bots. Anyways here we just >> generally respect people well enough to let them well alone. > > I don't remote diagnose people. While I don't have a medical license > to lose, I feel it's impolite to potentially mis-diagnose people over > text messages. > > I have not felt very respected here in comp.lang.c. I guess we must > have some different experiences in this place. Who exactly is > welcoming, and a warm person? > >> >> Not to spring on you that you're wrong, it's not a conspiracy >> against you, anyways as per the usual Shut Up goes out to any >> of these JB, JG, PO, WM, ..., sock-puppet bots. > > I'm not sure I recognize all of these initials. I'm sure I'll > learn to not engage with the problem children here in comp.lang.c, > but it's been a few days, and I'm still familiarizing myself with > the regulars. > >> >> Thief. > > Who exactly is the thief? Does this person have stats in the Rogue > class in dungeons and dragons? > > > Happy C coding! > > [1] Those pretend em-dashes will surely make Dan Cross even more > fictional. I hope his rage isn't fictional and he'll byte every > character I type here in comp.lang.c.
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| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-29 23:10 +0200 |
| Subject | A funny Q16.16 experiment with Hack (Was: Hack ecosystem ignorance paired with paranoia [Nand to Tetris]) |
| Message-ID | <114dq8n$kfq8$1@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #124455 |
Hi, This seems to be a funny Q16.16 experiment. It shows that an integerish Hack can do floatish stuff, by using binary fixpoint: Raytracing on the Hack computer 2021/06/13 - im alex https://blog.alexqua.ch/posts/from-nand-to-raytracer/ That it uses Rust is arbitrary. Feel free to do it in C, C++, FORTRAN or Java. I guess these languages all have basic arithmethic, right? Maybe not a long jump always? Bye Mild Shock schrieb: > Hi, > > > Who exactly is the thief? Does this person > > have stats in the Rogue class in dungeons > > and dragons? > > The conspiracy theory of a stealing of Torso VDBE, > by Rossy Boy, is probably a result of complete > ignorance of the Hack ecosystem. > > Hack is a very popular computer science project, > with a couple of subprojects in hardware and > software. It goes also by the name Nand to Tetris, > > and is programming language agnositic. You can do > Hack experiments in any programming language, be > it BASIC, ADA or Rust. Nobody cares. > > The gist are projects like here, first to > educate yourself about Hack: > > https://www.nand2tetris.org/course > > And then to use Hack in different contexts: > > https://www.nand2tetris.org/copy-of-talks > > For didactic purposes, I used Hack for my WebGPU > experiment. I didn't even take a look at Torso > VDBE, why should I? Hack is nicely documented, > > has even a book, and fusing the two 16-bit > instruction types A and D, into a single 32-bit > instruction stream, is nowhere patented. > > Bye > > > Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson schrieb: >> On 30/07/2026 2:13 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >> >>> https://www.theregister.com/databases/2026/07/29/after-rewriting-sqlite- >>> in-rust-turso-turns-its-sights-on-postgres/5279835 >>> >>> I don't much care about Rust. It's yet another Google product, >>> with the idea of not having exception handling, then supposedly >>> it's efficient and safe, yet, it's efficient by not being safe, >>> and safe by not being efficient. Then there's the macro/metaprogramming >>> front-end, which basically doesn't validate >>> like templates or otherwise for compile-time invariants, >>> that is basically like people who use string substititution instead >>> of object models, who all suffer injection attacks. >> >> Personally, I like Postgres in C, and I hope it stays there. I used to >> maintain PL/Java, and got intimately familiar with some of the limi- >> tations of the JNI interface. And while there's some new Java foreign >> function interface now, it doesn't replace JNI. Especially for projects >> that embed the JVM like PL/Java. >> >> I haven't contributed to that project for maybe one and half decade, and >> now that I'm using Java again -- a project I'll mention in another >> thread --[1] I may just resume some duties in PL/Java. But that's a >> future adventure that may or may not happen. >> >> So, I was going to say something about Postgres? Right, I'm sure the >> author of Postgres-in-Rust will run into some of the problems people >> always run into when they attempt to rewrite other large projects, and >> that's not learning from the prior mistakes. I try to avoid that. >> >> Some of that I learned the hard way, and some of that I learned by read- >> ing the /Mythical Man Month/. I don't remember the author's name, and >> my physical copy is not in my current library, but I believe the author >> is famous enough I don't need to mention him by name. >> >> >>> >>> >>> This latest manic episode has that in some more clinical or caring >>> settings, then one might wonder over the author's need to get help >>> or whether they're lost their mittens. In another view, though, >>> that's crazy-town and it's not a good place and we don't go there >>> any-more, population burse-scheiss-bots. Anyways here we just >>> generally respect people well enough to let them well alone. >> >> I don't remote diagnose people. While I don't have a medical license >> to lose, I feel it's impolite to potentially mis-diagnose people over >> text messages. >> >> I have not felt very respected here in comp.lang.c. I guess we must >> have some different experiences in this place. Who exactly is >> welcoming, and a warm person? >> >>> >>> Not to spring on you that you're wrong, it's not a conspiracy >>> against you, anyways as per the usual Shut Up goes out to any >>> of these JB, JG, PO, WM, ..., sock-puppet bots. >> >> I'm not sure I recognize all of these initials. I'm sure I'll >> learn to not engage with the problem children here in comp.lang.c, >> but it's been a few days, and I'm still familiarizing myself with >> the regulars. >> >>> >>> Thief. >> >> Who exactly is the thief? Does this person have stats in the Rogue >> class in dungeons and dragons? >> >> >> Happy C coding! >> >> [1] Those pretend em-dashes will surely make Dan Cross even more >> fictional. I hope his rage isn't fictional and he'll byte every >> character I type here in comp.lang.c. >
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| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-30 11:27 +0200 |
| Subject | Summer Challenge: libSQL = Prolog+Modes [VDBE versus π-WAM] (Re: A funny Q16.16 experiment with Hack) |
| Message-ID | <114f5e6$lao5$4@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #124458 |
Hi,
Woa! Thats a very sad and non fitting statement:
"This was before I was indoctrinated into
ISO Prolog and the ways of monotonic logic
programming. Shen Prolog has many semantic
and syntactic limitations that Scryer Prolog
does not. Also, I now know constraints are a
much better, purer solution to the problems
mode declarations were meant to address"
https://github.com/mthom/scryer-prolog/issues/3410#issuecomment-5030471183
Ok, here is the summer challenge, thats the easy one:
SQL --> Prolog --> WAM
Here come two variations, slightly mindboggling maybe?
SQL --> AST --> VDBE
SQL --> Prolog+Modes --> π-WAM
Bye
BTW: What is VDBE? Some abstract machine, that can
be used to run SQL, following some ideas here:
Database Co-Design With Asynchronous I/O
https://penberg.org/papers/penberg-edgesys24.pdf
Or to run Doom:
Doom on the Turso VDBE
https://github.com/tursodatabase/turso-vdbe-doom-example
What if we would run Doom with π-WAM, on a GPU,
using multiple shaders. We could add some ray tracing.
Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
>
> This seems to be a funny Q16.16 experiment.
> It shows that an integerish Hack can do
> floatish stuff, by using binary fixpoint:
>
> Raytracing on the Hack computer
> 2021/06/13 - im alex
> https://blog.alexqua.ch/posts/from-nand-to-raytracer/
>
> That it uses Rust is arbitrary. Feel free
> to do it in C, C++, FORTRAN or Java. I guess
> these languages all have basic arithmethic,
>
> right? Maybe not a long jump always?
>
> Bye
>
> Mild Shock schrieb:
>> Hi,
>>
>> > Who exactly is the thief? Does this person
>> > have stats in the Rogue class in dungeons
>> > and dragons?
>>
>> The conspiracy theory of a stealing of Torso VDBE,
>> by Rossy Boy, is probably a result of complete
>> ignorance of the Hack ecosystem.
>>
>> Hack is a very popular computer science project,
>> with a couple of subprojects in hardware and
>> software. It goes also by the name Nand to Tetris,
>>
>> and is programming language agnositic. You can do
>> Hack experiments in any programming language, be
>> it BASIC, ADA or Rust. Nobody cares.
>>
>> The gist are projects like here, first to
>> educate yourself about Hack:
>>
>> https://www.nand2tetris.org/course
>>
>> And then to use Hack in different contexts:
>>
>> https://www.nand2tetris.org/copy-of-talks
>>
>> For didactic purposes, I used Hack for my WebGPU
>> experiment. I didn't even take a look at Torso
>> VDBE, why should I? Hack is nicely documented,
>>
>> has even a book, and fusing the two 16-bit
>> instruction types A and D, into a single 32-bit
>> instruction stream, is nowhere patented.
>>
>> Bye
>>
>>
>> Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson schrieb:
>>> On 30/07/2026 2:13 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.theregister.com/databases/2026/07/29/after-rewriting-sqlite-
>>>> in-rust-turso-turns-its-sights-on-postgres/5279835
>>>>
>>>> I don't much care about Rust. It's yet another Google product,
>>>> with the idea of not having exception handling, then supposedly
>>>> it's efficient and safe, yet, it's efficient by not being safe,
>>>> and safe by not being efficient. Then there's the macro/metaprogramming
>>>> front-end, which basically doesn't validate
>>>> like templates or otherwise for compile-time invariants,
>>>> that is basically like people who use string substititution instead
>>>> of object models, who all suffer injection attacks.
>>>
>>> Personally, I like Postgres in C, and I hope it stays there. I used to
>>> maintain PL/Java, and got intimately familiar with some of the limi-
>>> tations of the JNI interface. And while there's some new Java foreign
>>> function interface now, it doesn't replace JNI. Especially for projects
>>> that embed the JVM like PL/Java.
>>>
>>> I haven't contributed to that project for maybe one and half decade, and
>>> now that I'm using Java again -- a project I'll mention in another
>>> thread --[1] I may just resume some duties in PL/Java. But that's a
>>> future adventure that may or may not happen.
>>>
>>> So, I was going to say something about Postgres? Right, I'm sure the
>>> author of Postgres-in-Rust will run into some of the problems people
>>> always run into when they attempt to rewrite other large projects, and
>>> that's not learning from the prior mistakes. I try to avoid that.
>>>
>>> Some of that I learned the hard way, and some of that I learned by read-
>>> ing the /Mythical Man Month/. I don't remember the author's name, and
>>> my physical copy is not in my current library, but I believe the author
>>> is famous enough I don't need to mention him by name.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This latest manic episode has that in some more clinical or caring
>>>> settings, then one might wonder over the author's need to get help
>>>> or whether they're lost their mittens. In another view, though,
>>>> that's crazy-town and it's not a good place and we don't go there
>>>> any-more, population burse-scheiss-bots. Anyways here we just
>>>> generally respect people well enough to let them well alone.
>>>
>>> I don't remote diagnose people. While I don't have a medical license
>>> to lose, I feel it's impolite to potentially mis-diagnose people over
>>> text messages.
>>>
>>> I have not felt very respected here in comp.lang.c. I guess we must
>>> have some different experiences in this place. Who exactly is
>>> welcoming, and a warm person?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not to spring on you that you're wrong, it's not a conspiracy
>>>> against you, anyways as per the usual Shut Up goes out to any
>>>> of these JB, JG, PO, WM, ..., sock-puppet bots.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure I recognize all of these initials. I'm sure I'll
>>> learn to not engage with the problem children here in comp.lang.c,
>>> but it's been a few days, and I'm still familiarizing myself with
>>> the regulars.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thief.
>>>
>>> Who exactly is the thief? Does this person have stats in the Rogue
>>> class in dungeons and dragons?
>>>
>>>
>>> Happy C coding!
>>>
>>> [1] Those pretend em-dashes will surely make Dan Cross even more
>>> fictional. I hope his rage isn't fictional and he'll byte every
>>> character I type here in comp.lang.c.
>>
>
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| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-12 20:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Bullshit Authorized by Sarah Connor [EyeProlog Failure] (Re: Summer Challenge: libSQL = Prolog+Modes [VDBE versus π-WAM]) |
| Message-ID | <115ie44$c21n$3@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #124460 |
Hi,
Ok, I see, its not really a Prolog.
For example I get the below. Why
does it have ISO compliance tests?
?- T = f(Y,Z,S), f(X,Y,Z) = T.
(no answers)
https://eyereasoner.github.io/eyeprolog/playground
Whoever payed for this nonsense, had
his money lavishly thrown out of a
window. They could use the australian
gas to directly burn some dollar notes.
LoL
Bye
Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
>
> Its interesting that we already have
> like for 50 years the Curry Howard
> isomorphims, as proof justifications terms,
>
> Still it seems extremly hard to generate
> proof certificates for Prolog, isn't it?
> How it started:
>
> Ai x Big Gas. What could go wrong?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kON2ZI2BNj8
>
> How its going:
>
> eq(Z,Z).
> why eq(f(X,a),f(b,Y))
> eq(f(b, a), f(b, a)).
> why(
> eq(f(b, a), f(b, a)),
> proof(
> goal(eq(f(b, a), f(b, a))),
> by(fact("<input>", clause(1))),
> bindings([binding("Z", f(b, a))])
> )
> ).
> https://eyereasoner.github.io/eyeprolog/playground
>
> Truely some bullshit authorized by Sarah Connor.
> So far there is no danger of an upcoming
> Skynet that will gain self-awareness.
>
> Bye
>
> Mild Shock schrieb:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Woa! Thats a very sad and non fitting statement:
>>
>> "This was before I was indoctrinated into
>> ISO Prolog and the ways of monotonic logic
>> programming. Shen Prolog has many semantic
>> and syntactic limitations that Scryer Prolog
>> does not. Also, I now know constraints are a
>> much better, purer solution to the problems
>> mode declarations were meant to address"
>> https://github.com/mthom/scryer-prolog/issues/3410#issuecomment-5030471183
>>
>>
>> Ok, here is the summer challenge, thats the easy one:
>>
>> SQL --> Prolog --> WAM
>>
>> Here come two variations, slightly mindboggling maybe?
>>
>> SQL --> AST --> VDBE
>>
>> SQL --> Prolog+Modes --> π-WAM
>>
>> Bye
>>
>> BTW: What is VDBE? Some abstract machine, that can
>> be used to run SQL, following some ideas here:
>>
>> Database Co-Design With Asynchronous I/O
>> https://penberg.org/papers/penberg-edgesys24.pdf
>>
>> Or to run Doom:
>>
>> Doom on the Turso VDBE
>> https://github.com/tursodatabase/turso-vdbe-doom-example
>>
>> What if we would run Doom with π-WAM, on a GPU,
>> using multiple shaders. We could add some ray tracing.
>>
>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> This seems to be a funny Q16.16 experiment.
>>> It shows that an integerish Hack can do
>>> floatish stuff, by using binary fixpoint:
>>>
>>> Raytracing on the Hack computer
>>> 2021/06/13 - im alex
>>> https://blog.alexqua.ch/posts/from-nand-to-raytracer/
>>>
>>> That it uses Rust is arbitrary. Feel free
>>> to do it in C, C++, FORTRAN or Java. I guess
>>> these languages all have basic arithmethic,
>>>
>>> right? Maybe not a long jump always?
>>>
>>> Bye
>>>
>>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> > Who exactly is the thief? Does this person
>>>> > have stats in the Rogue class in dungeons
>>>> > and dragons?
>>>>
>>>> The conspiracy theory of a stealing of Torso VDBE,
>>>> by Rossy Boy, is probably a result of complete
>>>> ignorance of the Hack ecosystem.
>>>>
>>>> Hack is a very popular computer science project,
>>>> with a couple of subprojects in hardware and
>>>> software. It goes also by the name Nand to Tetris,
>>>>
>>>> and is programming language agnositic. You can do
>>>> Hack experiments in any programming language, be
>>>> it BASIC, ADA or Rust. Nobody cares.
>>>>
>>>> The gist are projects like here, first to
>>>> educate yourself about Hack:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.nand2tetris.org/course
>>>>
>>>> And then to use Hack in different contexts:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.nand2tetris.org/copy-of-talks
>>>>
>>>> For didactic purposes, I used Hack for my WebGPU
>>>> experiment. I didn't even take a look at Torso
>>>> VDBE, why should I? Hack is nicely documented,
>>>>
>>>> has even a book, and fusing the two 16-bit
>>>> instruction types A and D, into a single 32-bit
>>>> instruction stream, is nowhere patented.
>>>>
>>>> Bye
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson schrieb:
>>>>> On 30/07/2026 2:13 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.theregister.com/databases/2026/07/29/after-rewriting-sqlite-
>>>>>> in-rust-turso-turns-its-sights-on-postgres/5279835
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't much care about Rust. It's yet another Google product,
>>>>>> with the idea of not having exception handling, then supposedly
>>>>>> it's efficient and safe, yet, it's efficient by not being safe,
>>>>>> and safe by not being efficient. Then there's the
>>>>>> macro/metaprogramming
>>>>>> front-end, which basically doesn't validate
>>>>>> like templates or otherwise for compile-time invariants,
>>>>>> that is basically like people who use string substititution instead
>>>>>> of object models, who all suffer injection attacks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally, I like Postgres in C, and I hope it stays there. I
>>>>> used to
>>>>> maintain PL/Java, and got intimately familiar with some of the limi-
>>>>> tations of the JNI interface. And while there's some new Java foreign
>>>>> function interface now, it doesn't replace JNI. Especially for
>>>>> projects
>>>>> that embed the JVM like PL/Java.
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't contributed to that project for maybe one and half
>>>>> decade, and
>>>>> now that I'm using Java again -- a project I'll mention in another
>>>>> thread --[1] I may just resume some duties in PL/Java. But that's a
>>>>> future adventure that may or may not happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, I was going to say something about Postgres? Right, I'm sure the
>>>>> author of Postgres-in-Rust will run into some of the problems people
>>>>> always run into when they attempt to rewrite other large projects, and
>>>>> that's not learning from the prior mistakes. I try to avoid that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some of that I learned the hard way, and some of that I learned by
>>>>> read-
>>>>> ing the /Mythical Man Month/. I don't remember the author's name, and
>>>>> my physical copy is not in my current library, but I believe the
>>>>> author
>>>>> is famous enough I don't need to mention him by name.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This latest manic episode has that in some more clinical or caring
>>>>>> settings, then one might wonder over the author's need to get help
>>>>>> or whether they're lost their mittens. In another view, though,
>>>>>> that's crazy-town and it's not a good place and we don't go there
>>>>>> any-more, population burse-scheiss-bots. Anyways here we just
>>>>>> generally respect people well enough to let them well alone.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't remote diagnose people. While I don't have a medical license
>>>>> to lose, I feel it's impolite to potentially mis-diagnose people over
>>>>> text messages.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have not felt very respected here in comp.lang.c. I guess we must
>>>>> have some different experiences in this place. Who exactly is
>>>>> welcoming, and a warm person?
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not to spring on you that you're wrong, it's not a conspiracy
>>>>>> against you, anyways as per the usual Shut Up goes out to any
>>>>>> of these JB, JG, PO, WM, ..., sock-puppet bots.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure I recognize all of these initials. I'm sure I'll
>>>>> learn to not engage with the problem children here in comp.lang.c,
>>>>> but it's been a few days, and I'm still familiarizing myself with
>>>>> the regulars.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thief.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who exactly is the thief? Does this person have stats in the Rogue
>>>>> class in dungeons and dragons?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Happy C coding!
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] Those pretend em-dashes will surely make Dan Cross even more
>>>>> fictional. I hope his rage isn't fictional and he'll byte every
>>>>> character I type here in comp.lang.c.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-01 02:33 +0200 |
| Subject | RCan library(ironpaw) repurpose FFT hardware [Glimps into Ryzen AI 7 350] (Re: Hack ecosystem ignorance paired with paranoia) |
| Message-ID | <114jeth$o8qj$3@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #124455 |
Hi, One could believe the AI boom is a kind of Charles Darvin Galapagos Island Evolution Trick of repurposing FFT hardware. But this is of course not true, HPC, high performance computing, has already defined level 3 ops years ago. But look at this rabit hole of Ryzen AI 7 350 NPU design, which is a stripped down Xilinx, stripped of exotic FFT features: Getting peak TOPS on a Ryzen AI 7 350 NPU https://destevez.net/2026/05/getting-peak-tops-on-a-ryzen-ai-7-350-npu/ But the core feature, very long instruction word (VLIW) engines, with hardware accelerated GEMMs, scattered in grids of ASIC tiles, connected by DMA and NoC, is even not very specific to AMD, you find it also in Snapdragon / Qualcomm SoCs for AI Laptops. Bye P.S.: My brain playing tricks, why should I name a library(ironpaw) ? From the same article above. Maybe WebNN is easier to use? "mlir-aie contains a Python framework called IRON that generates LLVM MLIR code representing a workload that runs on the NPU, including the code that runs on each compute tile processor and the configuration of DMAs and other hardware. Kernels for the compute tile processor can be written in C++ and compiled either with the open-source llvm-aie Peano compiler, which is a fork of LLVM that adds support for the Xilinx AI engine processors, or with the closed-source Xilinx CHESS compiler, which is included in Vitis. In simple cases the kernels can also be directly written in Python with IRON." Getting peak TOPS on a Ryzen AI 7 350 NPU https://destevez.net/2026/05/getting-peak-tops-on-a-ryzen-ai-7-350-npu/ Mild Shock schrieb: > Hi, > > > Who exactly is the thief? Does this person > > have stats in the Rogue class in dungeons > > and dragons? > > The conspiracy theory of a stealing of Torso VDBE, > by Rossy Boy, is probably a result of complete > ignorance of the Hack ecosystem. > > Hack is a very popular computer science project, > with a couple of subprojects in hardware and > software. It goes also by the name Nand to Tetris, > > and is programming language agnositic. You can do > Hack experiments in any programming language, be > it BASIC, ADA or Rust. Nobody cares. > > The gist are projects like here, first to > educate yourself about Hack: > > https://www.nand2tetris.org/course > > And then to use Hack in different contexts: > > https://www.nand2tetris.org/copy-of-talks > > For didactic purposes, I used Hack for my WebGPU > experiment. I didn't even take a look at Torso > VDBE, why should I? Hack is nicely documented, > > has even a book, and fusing the two 16-bit > instruction types A and D, into a single 32-bit > instruction stream, is nowhere patented. > > Bye > > > Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson schrieb: >> On 30/07/2026 2:13 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >> >>> https://www.theregister.com/databases/2026/07/29/after-rewriting-sqlite- >>> in-rust-turso-turns-its-sights-on-postgres/5279835 >>> >>> I don't much care about Rust. It's yet another Google product, >>> with the idea of not having exception handling, then supposedly >>> it's efficient and safe, yet, it's efficient by not being safe, >>> and safe by not being efficient. Then there's the macro/metaprogramming >>> front-end, which basically doesn't validate >>> like templates or otherwise for compile-time invariants, >>> that is basically like people who use string substititution instead >>> of object models, who all suffer injection attacks. >> >> Personally, I like Postgres in C, and I hope it stays there. I used to >> maintain PL/Java, and got intimately familiar with some of the limi- >> tations of the JNI interface. And while there's some new Java foreign >> function interface now, it doesn't replace JNI. Especially for projects >> that embed the JVM like PL/Java. >> >> I haven't contributed to that project for maybe one and half decade, and >> now that I'm using Java again -- a project I'll mention in another >> thread --[1] I may just resume some duties in PL/Java. But that's a >> future adventure that may or may not happen. >> >> So, I was going to say something about Postgres? Right, I'm sure the >> author of Postgres-in-Rust will run into some of the problems people >> always run into when they attempt to rewrite other large projects, and >> that's not learning from the prior mistakes. I try to avoid that. >> >> Some of that I learned the hard way, and some of that I learned by read- >> ing the /Mythical Man Month/. I don't remember the author's name, and >> my physical copy is not in my current library, but I believe the author >> is famous enough I don't need to mention him by name. >> >> >>> >>> >>> This latest manic episode has that in some more clinical or caring >>> settings, then one might wonder over the author's need to get help >>> or whether they're lost their mittens. In another view, though, >>> that's crazy-town and it's not a good place and we don't go there >>> any-more, population burse-scheiss-bots. Anyways here we just >>> generally respect people well enough to let them well alone. >> >> I don't remote diagnose people. While I don't have a medical license >> to lose, I feel it's impolite to potentially mis-diagnose people over >> text messages. >> >> I have not felt very respected here in comp.lang.c. I guess we must >> have some different experiences in this place. Who exactly is >> welcoming, and a warm person? >> >>> >>> Not to spring on you that you're wrong, it's not a conspiracy >>> against you, anyways as per the usual Shut Up goes out to any >>> of these JB, JG, PO, WM, ..., sock-puppet bots. >> >> I'm not sure I recognize all of these initials. I'm sure I'll >> learn to not engage with the problem children here in comp.lang.c, >> but it's been a few days, and I'm still familiarizing myself with >> the regulars. >> >>> >>> Thief. >> >> Who exactly is the thief? Does this person have stats in the Rogue >> class in dungeons and dragons? >> >> >> Happy C coding! >> >> [1] Those pretend em-dashes will surely make Dan Cross even more >> fictional. I hope his rage isn't fictional and he'll byte every >> character I type here in comp.lang.c. >
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-01 02:34 +0200 |
| Subject | Can library(ironpaw) repurpose FFT hardware [Glimps into Ryzen AI 7 350] (Re: Hack ecosystem ignorance paired with paranoia) |
| Message-ID | <114jev4$o8qj$4@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #124455 |
Hi, On could believe the AI boom is a kind of Charles Darvin Galapagos Island Evolution Trick of repurposing FFT hardware. But this is of course not true, HPC, high performance computing, has already defined level 3 ops years ago. But look at this rabit hole of Ryzen AI 7 350 NPU design, which is a stripped down Xilinx, stripped of exotic FFT features: Getting peak TOPS on a Ryzen AI 7 350 NPU https://destevez.net/2026/05/getting-peak-tops-on-a-ryzen-ai-7-350-npu/ But the core feature, very long instruction word (VLIW) engines, with hardware accelerated GEMMs, scattered in grids of ASIC tiles, connected by DMA and NoC, is even not very specific to AMD, you find it also in Snapdragon / Qualcomm SoCs for AI Laptops. Bye P.S.: My brain playing tricks, why should I name a library(ironpaw) ? From the same article above. Maybe WebNN is easier to use? "mlir-aie contains a Python framework called IRON that generates LLVM MLIR code representing a workload that runs on the NPU, including the code that runs on each compute tile processor and the configuration of DMAs and other hardware. Kernels for the compute tile processor can be written in C++ and compiled either with the open-source llvm-aie Peano compiler, which is a fork of LLVM that adds support for the Xilinx AI engine processors, or with the closed-source Xilinx CHESS compiler, which is included in Vitis. In simple cases the kernels can also be directly written in Python with IRON." Getting peak TOPS on a Ryzen AI 7 350 NPU https://destevez.net/2026/05/getting-peak-tops-on-a-ryzen-ai-7-350-npu/ Mild Shock schrieb: > Hi, > > > Who exactly is the thief? Does this person > > have stats in the Rogue class in dungeons > > and dragons? > > The conspiracy theory of a stealing of Torso VDBE, > by Rossy Boy, is probably a result of complete > ignorance of the Hack ecosystem. > > Hack is a very popular computer science project, > with a couple of subprojects in hardware and > software. It goes also by the name Nand to Tetris, > > and is programming language agnositic. You can do > Hack experiments in any programming language, be > it BASIC, ADA or Rust. Nobody cares. > > The gist are projects like here, first to > educate yourself about Hack: > > https://www.nand2tetris.org/course > > And then to use Hack in different contexts: > > https://www.nand2tetris.org/copy-of-talks > > For didactic purposes, I used Hack for my WebGPU > experiment. I didn't even take a look at Torso > VDBE, why should I? Hack is nicely documented, > > has even a book, and fusing the two 16-bit > instruction types A and D, into a single 32-bit > instruction stream, is nowhere patented. > > Bye > > > Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson schrieb: >> On 30/07/2026 2:13 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >> >>> https://www.theregister.com/databases/2026/07/29/after-rewriting-sqlite- >>> in-rust-turso-turns-its-sights-on-postgres/5279835 >>> >>> I don't much care about Rust. It's yet another Google product, >>> with the idea of not having exception handling, then supposedly >>> it's efficient and safe, yet, it's efficient by not being safe, >>> and safe by not being efficient. Then there's the macro/metaprogramming >>> front-end, which basically doesn't validate >>> like templates or otherwise for compile-time invariants, >>> that is basically like people who use string substititution instead >>> of object models, who all suffer injection attacks. >> >> Personally, I like Postgres in C, and I hope it stays there. I used to >> maintain PL/Java, and got intimately familiar with some of the limi- >> tations of the JNI interface. And while there's some new Java foreign >> function interface now, it doesn't replace JNI. Especially for projects >> that embed the JVM like PL/Java. >> >> I haven't contributed to that project for maybe one and half decade, and >> now that I'm using Java again -- a project I'll mention in another >> thread --[1] I may just resume some duties in PL/Java. But that's a >> future adventure that may or may not happen. >> >> So, I was going to say something about Postgres? Right, I'm sure the >> author of Postgres-in-Rust will run into some of the problems people >> always run into when they attempt to rewrite other large projects, and >> that's not learning from the prior mistakes. I try to avoid that. >> >> Some of that I learned the hard way, and some of that I learned by read- >> ing the /Mythical Man Month/. I don't remember the author's name, and >> my physical copy is not in my current library, but I believe the author >> is famous enough I don't need to mention him by name. >> >> >>> >>> >>> This latest manic episode has that in some more clinical or caring >>> settings, then one might wonder over the author's need to get help >>> or whether they're lost their mittens. In another view, though, >>> that's crazy-town and it's not a good place and we don't go there >>> any-more, population burse-scheiss-bots. Anyways here we just >>> generally respect people well enough to let them well alone. >> >> I don't remote diagnose people. While I don't have a medical license >> to lose, I feel it's impolite to potentially mis-diagnose people over >> text messages. >> >> I have not felt very respected here in comp.lang.c. I guess we must >> have some different experiences in this place. Who exactly is >> welcoming, and a warm person? >> >>> >>> Not to spring on you that you're wrong, it's not a conspiracy >>> against you, anyways as per the usual Shut Up goes out to any >>> of these JB, JG, PO, WM, ..., sock-puppet bots. >> >> I'm not sure I recognize all of these initials. I'm sure I'll >> learn to not engage with the problem children here in comp.lang.c, >> but it's been a few days, and I'm still familiarizing myself with >> the regulars. >> >>> >>> Thief. >> >> Who exactly is the thief? Does this person have stats in the Rogue >> class in dungeons and dragons? >> >> >> Happy C coding! >> >> [1] Those pretend em-dashes will surely make Dan Cross even more >> fictional. I hope his rage isn't fictional and he'll byte every >> character I type here in comp.lang.c. >
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-30 21:31 +0800 |
| Subject | Turbo Vison, again (was: Re: Postgres is in C!) |
| Message-ID | <enIaS.11527$UXf1.5510@fx03.ams4> |
| In reply to | #124452 |
On 30/07/2026 5:23 AM, Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir wrote: > Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson skrev: > |-------------------------------------------------------------| > |"I have not felt very respected here in comp.lang.c. [. . .]"| > |-------------------------------------------------------------| > > Hej! > > I am sorry that you feel so! I find you to be helpful! Thank you. I try. The other "regulars" here seem to enamoured of their own self importance to care what the other person is going through on their way to competency in whatever programming project they're tackling. Another project I have open is a VAX emulator, written in a combination of C and C++. C for the emulator and other parts, C++ for the GUI in Turbo Vision. That's why I added comp.lang.c++ to this discussion, even though I don't read it. I'm sure I'll post screenshots, hosted on Dropbox, at some point in the future. And if your adventures are public enough, I hope to see some screenshots from you too! -- Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/ I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-01 12:15 +0200 |
| Subject | He uses "FIFO objects", and DMA and Noc [Glimps into Ryzen AI 7 350] (Re: A brain desease of 20 days [Rossy Boy])) |
| Message-ID | <114kh01$ovdp$2@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #124446 |
Hi, He uses FIFO, and DMA and Noc: Getting peak TOPS on a Ryzen AI 7 350 NPU https://destevez.net/2026/05/getting-peak-tops-on-a-ryzen-ai-7-350-npu/ But lets say whether its FIFO or FILO isn't so important his used cases are, what is now found in my library(furryhaze) for GPU, namely the very basic: /** * test_gpu_comp_start(W, K): internal only * The predicate succeeds. As a side effect it * starts the π-WAM W with K warps. */ function test_gpu_comp_start(args) /** * test_gpu_comp_join(W, P): internal only * The predicate succeeds in P with a new promise * that waits for the π-WAM W to finish. */ function test_gpu_comp_join(args) A GPU interface, via the command processor for example of WebGPU, does the above synchronization for you. In the NPU example he does everything low level, with Python IRON an stuff: "Since the main way to achieve synchronization within the IRON framework is by doing data movement with object FIFOs, I’m sending a dummy uint32 value as some sort of synchronization token. Waiting for all the kernels to finish is trickier. The object FIFOs support a join pattern in which an object FIFO consumes an object from each of multiple object FIFOs, concatenates these objects and produces the concatenated object as a result. Etc.." Getting peak TOPS on a Ryzen AI 7 350 NPU https://destevez.net/2026/05/getting-peak-tops-on-a-ryzen-ai-7-350-npu/ So Daniel Estévez Scientific & Technical Amateur Radio, gives a nice glimpse into an NPU, I have not yet publicitly released my library(furryhaze), since its still in testing. Maybe take another week or so, still I have ironed out all corners, for example the new gpu_comp_start and gpu_comp_join works fine on may desktop AI laptops, but I have still a bug on my iPad AI tablet, on the Redmi AI phone, also chokes on a test case. Bye Mild Shock schrieb: > Hi, > > This was archived on Jul 9, 2026: > > 11.4 Giga Lips with a Budget Laptop > https://github.com/Jean-Luc-Picard-2021/gigabudget > > Still, Jul 29, Rossy Boy halucinates accusations: > > Ross Finlayson schrieb: > > .. bla bla goto bla bla .. > > > > Stupid gangster: teamsters are a union. > > > > In the trades, not the steals, .... > > Woa! Thats now 20 days of brain desease, > and not understanding the meaning and implications. > Even not understand pi-WAM has Hack VM backend. > > But its all opensource. Bravo Rossy Boy, you are > champion in brainlessness and lazyness of > a idiot usenet troll. > > Bye > > Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson schrieb: >> On 28/07/2026 2:43 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>> Hello, here I'll post some design notes and a panel discussion with some >>> chat-bots about making some sense of the "vector-wide scalar word" >>> and "character machines", on commodity hardware about ubiquitous >>> operations. >>> >>> >>> It's considered at least tangentially relevant to comp.lang.c and >>> comp.lang.c++ because for example text is ubiquitous and the targets >>> would be low-level, while the higher-level languages would have a >>> same sort of patternry, and for example that libc and cstdlib are >>> standard, and as with regards to POSIX and Unicode and so on. >>> >>> Please feel free to excuse or ignore, or comment as freely. >>> >>> Thanks for reading. >>> >> >> Are you generating all of your code via LLMs? Rest assured, >> the LLM generated code will have subtle and sometimes not so subtle >> bugs. >> >> >> Happy bughunting! >
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-01 12:18 +0200 |
| Subject | Tablet and phone UBS-C remote debugging (Re: He uses "FIFO objects", and DMA and Noc) |
| Message-ID | <114kh58$ovdp$4@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #124523 |
Hi, Tablets and phone are more annoying to use with WebGPU. The usual browsers don't have a Chrome DevTools panel integrated, so that one could do JavaScript Debugging directly on the device. Instead one has to use a desktop machine, and connect the device via UBS-C , and start a Chrome Browser there . And then start a Chrome DevTools panel alone, that is pair with the device, via UBS-C cable. So this way I already see where it crashes on the tablets and phone: await output.mapAsync(GPUMapMode.READ) Unhandled Promise Rejection: OperationError The above is the error that one can re-produce already here with this test: 11.4 Giga Lips with a Budget Laptop https://github.com/Jean-Luc-Picard-2021/gigabudget Not sure what exactly happens. Maybe a form of timeout or device lost, that the primitive HTML / JavaScript doesn't handle gracefully yet. Maybe redimensioning the test, so that it consumes less time would help. Who knows? Will see. For production use of a GPU integration I have to anyway provide work slicing it seems. Bye Mild Shock schrieb: > Hi, > > He uses FIFO, and DMA and Noc: > > Getting peak TOPS on a Ryzen AI 7 350 NPU > https://destevez.net/2026/05/getting-peak-tops-on-a-ryzen-ai-7-350-npu/ > > But lets say whether its FIFO or FILO > isn't so important his used cases are, > what is now found in my library(furryhaze) > > for GPU, namely the very basic: > > /** > * test_gpu_comp_start(W, K): internal only > * The predicate succeeds. As a side effect it > * starts the π-WAM W with K warps. > */ > function test_gpu_comp_start(args) > > /** > * test_gpu_comp_join(W, P): internal only > * The predicate succeeds in P with a new promise > * that waits for the π-WAM W to finish. > */ > function test_gpu_comp_join(args) > > A GPU interface, via the command processor > for example of WebGPU, does the above > synchronization for you. > > In the NPU example he does everything > low level, with Python IRON an stuff: > > "Since the main way to achieve synchronization > within the IRON framework is by doing data > movement with object FIFOs, I’m sending a > dummy uint32 value as some sort of > synchronization token. > > Waiting for all the kernels to finish is > trickier. The object FIFOs support a join > pattern in which an object FIFO consumes an > object from each of multiple object FIFOs, > concatenates these objects and produces the > concatenated object as a result. > > Etc.." > > Getting peak TOPS on a Ryzen AI 7 350 NPU > https://destevez.net/2026/05/getting-peak-tops-on-a-ryzen-ai-7-350-npu/ > > So Daniel Estévez Scientific & Technical > Amateur Radio, gives a nice glimpse into an > NPU, I have not yet publicitly released > > my library(furryhaze), since its still in > testing. Maybe take another week or so, > still I have ironed out all corners, > > for example the new gpu_comp_start and > gpu_comp_join works fine on may desktop > AI laptops, but I have still a bug on > > my iPad AI tablet, on the Redmi AI phone, > also chokes on a test case. > > Bye > > Mild Shock schrieb: >> Hi, >> >> This was archived on Jul 9, 2026: >> >> 11.4 Giga Lips with a Budget Laptop >> https://github.com/Jean-Luc-Picard-2021/gigabudget >> >> Still, Jul 29, Rossy Boy halucinates accusations: >> >> Ross Finlayson schrieb: >> > .. bla bla goto bla bla .. >> > >> > Stupid gangster: teamsters are a union. >> > >> > In the trades, not the steals, .... >> >> Woa! Thats now 20 days of brain desease, >> and not understanding the meaning and implications. >> Even not understand pi-WAM has Hack VM backend. >> >> But its all opensource. Bravo Rossy Boy, you are >> champion in brainlessness and lazyness of >> a idiot usenet troll. >> >> Bye >> >> Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson schrieb: >>> On 28/07/2026 2:43 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>> Hello, here I'll post some design notes and a panel discussion with >>>> some >>>> chat-bots about making some sense of the "vector-wide scalar word" >>>> and "character machines", on commodity hardware about ubiquitous >>>> operations. >>>> >>>> >>>> It's considered at least tangentially relevant to comp.lang.c and >>>> comp.lang.c++ because for example text is ubiquitous and the targets >>>> would be low-level, while the higher-level languages would have a >>>> same sort of patternry, and for example that libc and cstdlib are >>>> standard, and as with regards to POSIX and Unicode and so on. >>>> >>>> Please feel free to excuse or ignore, or comment as freely. >>>> >>>> Thanks for reading. >>>> >>> >>> Are you generating all of your code via LLMs? Rest assured, >>> the LLM generated code will have subtle and sometimes not so subtle >>> bugs. >>> >>> >>> Happy bughunting! >> >
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-01 14:11 +0200 |
| Subject | NPUs doing 2d chess comms (Manhattan Distance or L1 Norm) (Re: Tablet and phone UBS-C remote debugging) |
| Message-ID | <114knpo$pjus$2@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #124524 |
Hi,
Looking at the floor plan of a NPU:
Getting peak TOPS on a Ryzen AI 7 350 NPU
https://destevez.net/2026/05/getting-peak-tops-on-a-ryzen-ai-7-350-npu/
It seems to me comms between tiles takes
at least Manhattan Distance or L1 Norm time,
if there is no comms congestion
But how does a packet travel? This way:
+----E
|
|
S
Or this way, from start S to end E:
+-E
+
+
S
And what does the chip do if there is
traffic congestion? Some papers are
here, possibly an old problem giving
that processor "cubes" are nothing new.
But a "cube" would be 3D and not 2D.
This paper is old from 2007 or so:
Routing Algorithms for 2D NoC Architectures
http://cva.stanford.edu/classes/ee382c/research/2DRouting.pdf
Bye
Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
>
> Tablets and phone are more annoying to
> use with WebGPU. The usual browsers don't
> have a Chrome DevTools panel integrated,
>
> so that one could do JavaScript Debugging
> directly on the device. Instead one has to
> use a desktop machine, and connect the
>
> device via UBS-C , and start a Chrome
> Browser there . And then start a Chrome
> DevTools panel alone, that is pair with
>
> the device, via UBS-C cable. So this way
> I already see where it crashes on the
> tablets and phone:
>
> await output.mapAsync(GPUMapMode.READ)
> Unhandled Promise Rejection: OperationError
>
> The above is the error that one can re-produce
> already here with this test:
>
> 11.4 Giga Lips with a Budget Laptop
> https://github.com/Jean-Luc-Picard-2021/gigabudget
>
> Not sure what exactly happens. Maybe
> a form of timeout or device lost, that the
> primitive HTML / JavaScript doesn't handle
>
> gracefully yet. Maybe redimensioning the
> test, so that it consumes less time would
> help. Who knows? Will see. For production
>
> use of a GPU integration I have to anyway
> provide work slicing it seems.
>
> Bye
>
> Mild Shock schrieb:
>> Hi,
>>
>> He uses FIFO, and DMA and Noc:
>>
>> Getting peak TOPS on a Ryzen AI 7 350 NPU
>> https://destevez.net/2026/05/getting-peak-tops-on-a-ryzen-ai-7-350-npu/
>>
>> But lets say whether its FIFO or FILO
>> isn't so important his used cases are,
>> what is now found in my library(furryhaze)
>>
>> for GPU, namely the very basic:
>>
>> /**
>> * test_gpu_comp_start(W, K): internal only
>> * The predicate succeeds. As a side effect it
>> * starts the π-WAM W with K warps.
>> */
>> function test_gpu_comp_start(args)
>>
>> /**
>> * test_gpu_comp_join(W, P): internal only
>> * The predicate succeeds in P with a new promise
>> * that waits for the π-WAM W to finish.
>> */
>> function test_gpu_comp_join(args)
>>
>> A GPU interface, via the command processor
>> for example of WebGPU, does the above
>> synchronization for you.
>>
>> In the NPU example he does everything
>> low level, with Python IRON an stuff:
>>
>> "Since the main way to achieve synchronization
>> within the IRON framework is by doing data
>> movement with object FIFOs, I’m sending a
>> dummy uint32 value as some sort of
>> synchronization token.
>>
>> Waiting for all the kernels to finish is
>> trickier. The object FIFOs support a join
>> pattern in which an object FIFO consumes an
>> object from each of multiple object FIFOs,
>> concatenates these objects and produces the
>> concatenated object as a result.
>>
>> Etc.."
>>
>> Getting peak TOPS on a Ryzen AI 7 350 NPU
>> https://destevez.net/2026/05/getting-peak-tops-on-a-ryzen-ai-7-350-npu/
>>
>> So Daniel Estévez Scientific & Technical
>> Amateur Radio, gives a nice glimpse into an
>> NPU, I have not yet publicitly released
>>
>> my library(furryhaze), since its still in
>> testing. Maybe take another week or so,
>> still I have ironed out all corners,
>>
>> for example the new gpu_comp_start and
>> gpu_comp_join works fine on may desktop
>> AI laptops, but I have still a bug on
>>
>> my iPad AI tablet, on the Redmi AI phone,
>> also chokes on a test case.
>>
>> Bye
>>
>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> This was archived on Jul 9, 2026:
>>>
>>> 11.4 Giga Lips with a Budget Laptop
>>> https://github.com/Jean-Luc-Picard-2021/gigabudget
>>>
>>> Still, Jul 29, Rossy Boy halucinates accusations:
>>>
>>> Ross Finlayson schrieb:
>>> > .. bla bla goto bla bla ..
>>> >
>>> > Stupid gangster: teamsters are a union.
>>> >
>>> > In the trades, not the steals, ....
>>>
>>> Woa! Thats now 20 days of brain desease,
>>> and not understanding the meaning and implications.
>>> Even not understand pi-WAM has Hack VM backend.
>>>
>>> But its all opensource. Bravo Rossy Boy, you are
>>> champion in brainlessness and lazyness of
>>> a idiot usenet troll.
>>>
>>> Bye
>>>
>>> Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson schrieb:
>>>> On 28/07/2026 2:43 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>> Hello, here I'll post some design notes and a panel discussion with
>>>>> some
>>>>> chat-bots about making some sense of the "vector-wide scalar word"
>>>>> and "character machines", on commodity hardware about ubiquitous
>>>>> operations.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's considered at least tangentially relevant to comp.lang.c and
>>>>> comp.lang.c++ because for example text is ubiquitous and the targets
>>>>> would be low-level, while the higher-level languages would have a
>>>>> same sort of patternry, and for example that libc and cstdlib are
>>>>> standard, and as with regards to POSIX and Unicode and so on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please feel free to excuse or ignore, or comment as freely.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for reading.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are you generating all of your code via LLMs? Rest assured,
>>>> the LLM generated code will have subtle and sometimes not so subtle
>>>> bugs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Happy bughunting!
>>>
>>
>
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| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-01 14:23 +0200 |
| Subject | NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance (Re: NPUs doing 2d chess comms) |
| Message-ID | <114kofl$pkdq$2@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #124526 |
Hi,
As easy as queues and FIFO objects might
sound. They don't like congestion. NACK for
retransmission might double the Manhattan Distance:
You have not only start
S to end E communication:
+----E
|
|
S
You might also have ACK or NACK
from E or midpoints back to S:
S'
+
+
E'
Ok, I made that up, I have no idea what a flit is,
when the author wrote this here:
"Packet flits are held in the FIFO which can
be used to determine back pressure. Dropping flits
in a NoC may not be possible since these
architectures may not provide an end-to-end
protocol for retransmission."
Routing Algorithms for 2D NoC Architectures
http://cva.stanford.edu/classes/ee382c/research/2DRouting.pdf
Bye
Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
>
> Looking at the floor plan of a NPU:
>
> Getting peak TOPS on a Ryzen AI 7 350 NPU
> https://destevez.net/2026/05/getting-peak-tops-on-a-ryzen-ai-7-350-npu/
>
> It seems to me comms between tiles takes
> at least Manhattan Distance or L1 Norm time,
> if there is no comms congestion
>
> But how does a packet travel? This way:
>
> +----E
> |
> |
> S
>
> Or this way, from start S to end E:
>
> +-E
> +
> +
> S
>
> And what does the chip do if there is
> traffic congestion? Some papers are
> here, possibly an old problem giving
>
> that processor "cubes" are nothing new.
> But a "cube" would be 3D and not 2D.
> This paper is old from 2007 or so:
>
> Routing Algorithms for 2D NoC Architectures
> http://cva.stanford.edu/classes/ee382c/research/2DRouting.pdf
>
> Bye
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| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-27 21:18 +0200 |
| Subject | Rossy Boy is neither Einstein nor Zweistein (Re: Viswath & Charmaigne) |
| Message-ID | <1148aud$h9hf$1@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #124392 |
Hi, Rossy Boy is neither Einstein nor Zweistein. He is not Einstein since Einstein is already dead: Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein He is also not Zweistein, since he doesn't understand concepts such as: - NVIDIA Volta ff. architecture Also his hands are small, and his breath stinks, and he lives in the basement of his mother. Bye Ross Finlayson schrieb: >>> Thanks for reading. > Good-day and good-bye.
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| From | Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-27 15:35 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Rossy Boy is neither Einstein nor Zweistein (Re: Viswath & Charmaigne) |
| Message-ID | <9xicnbX51fo4QPr3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #124394 |
On 07/27/2026 12:18 PM, Mild Shock wrote: > Hi, > > Rossy Boy is neither Einstein nor Zweistein. > He is not Einstein since Einstein is already dead: > > Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) > https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein > > He is also not Zweistein, since he doesn't > understand concepts such as: > > - NVIDIA Volta ff. architecture > > Also his hands are small, and his breath stinks, > and he lives in the basement of his mother. > > Bye > > > Ross Finlayson schrieb: >>>> Thanks for reading. >> Good-day and good-bye. Hm, well I have a tobacco habit, and happen to live in the same town as my saintly mother, not exactly the basement, then my hands have a span of eight inches since they are grown, close enough to make a natural measure, and I have twenty-five plus years experience as a full dev in the enterprise, or at least doing the job. It's the same small town as a grandfather's, you can call me Ross Lincoln or Ross Conway, and I gave at the bank. It really kind of is like a van, down by the river. My other grandfather had three bronze stars and a real purple heart, successful businessmen I think of them. Newspapers, hotels, establishments, .... Your digital twinning is like those "failures replicating Ripley". Homey don't play that, .... Then, also I have very firm opinions about what Zweistein says. Shut Up, Burse-bot, Shut Up. Wiggly grimacing kimono rictus. You hype-ing value-subtracting free-loading bloater. "A tensor core is a unit that multiplies two 4×4 FP16 matrices, and then adds a third FP16 or FP32 matrix to the result by using fused multiply–add operations, and obtains an FP32 result that could be optionally demoted to an FP16 result." "The GPU is operating at a frequency of 1200 MHz, which can be boosted up to 1455 MHz, memory is running at 848 MHz." It's just 2048 threads wide picked from the bins after the defects. Most systems simply don't include GPGPU's, they're considered extras. They're considered really quite simple, each of those threads is simple, SIMT. Does it have a stable instruction set? No, it doesn't. https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/parallel-thread-execution/index.html "Last updated on Jun 25, 2026. " This kind of Viswath & Charmaigne is considered the needful for efficient text routines, on modern commodity hardware, encodings, and algorithms. It's simple, portable, and performant. The "findings and matchings" for "vector-wide scalar word" for "character machines" is eventually very obvious to those skilled in the field, and with very much: prior art.
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