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Re: Simulating halt decider applied to a simpler input

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

Followups directed to: comp.theory

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On 11/11/2022 5:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 11/11/22 6:39 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 11/11/2022 5:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 11/11/22 5:37 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 11/11/2022 3:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 11/11/22 4:15 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/11/2022 3:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/11/22 2:39 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/11/2022 1:30 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/22 2:16 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/2022 12:43 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/22 1:36 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is my understanding that Olcott has blocked you and I 
>>>>>>>>>>>> would have
>>>>>>>>>>>> thought given your intelligence you would also understand that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> /Flibble
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think he has actually blocked me, just mostly ignores 
>>>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I say this because at times he seems to respond to what I 
>>>>>>>>>>> say, even if not in a direct reply,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Also, when someone like you replies, even if he has blocked 
>>>>>>>>>>> me, he will still see me.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> More importantly, If anyone naive wanders into the archives, 
>>>>>>>>>>> I want enough evidence to be around to point out his errors.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Note also, my longer replies shows what I know and provide 
>>>>>>>>>>> reasoning behind the claims, showing the Truth.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> His short claims, and guff replies just show that he doesn't 
>>>>>>>>>>> actually know what he is talking about, and reveals his 
>>>>>>>>>>> ignorance. If he tries to put his explanation into explicit 
>>>>>>>>>>> words, his errors become very apparent, I think even to him, 
>>>>>>>>>>> so he just refuses.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You always use the strawman deception as your only basis.
>>>>>>>>>> Naive readers will never notice this, yet naive readers are 
>>>>>>>>>> not in my target audience.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, because *I* use the actual definition of a Halting Decider.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyone that accepts the definition of a universal Turing machine 
>>>>>>>> (UTM) knows that the behavior of D correctly simulated by H 
>>>>>>>> provides H with a correct basis for its halt status decision.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But only if H DOES correctly simulate its input.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> void E(void (*x)())
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>    H(x, x);
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any H that does abort its simulation to prevent the infinite 
>>>>>> execution of E is correct to report non-halting. No shell game can 
>>>>>> correctly deny this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Any H that does aborts its simulation is INCORRECT because the 
>>>>> CORRECT simulation, as will the diret exectuion, will halt. 
>>>> If no H ever aborts its simulation of E then no E ever stops running 
>>>> this conclusively proves that H is correct to abort its simulation 
>>>> and report non-halting.
>>>>
>>>
>>> if THE H doesn't abort, it doesn't answer.
>>>
>>
>> H only need to correctly predict that its input would never reach its 
>> own final state and terminate normally in 1 to ∞ of correct simulation.
> 
> Right, and it does when CORRECTLY (and completely) simulated or directly 
> executed.
> 
> H just aborts its simulation too soon.

*This is the part where you are either incompetent or a liar*

Any expert in C knows that the correctly simulated E never reaches its 
own final state even if an infinite number of steps are correctly 
simulated. Thus H is correct to predict that its input never halts.

void E(void (*x)())
{
   H(x, x);
}

int main() { H(E,E); }

-- 
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
  Genius hits a target no one else can see."
  Arthur Schopenhauer

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Simulating halt decider applied to a simpler input olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-11-11 09:28 -0600
  Re: Simulating halt decider applied to a simpler input olcott <none-ya@beez-waxes.com> - 2022-11-11 18:05 -0600
  Re: Simulating halt decider applied to a simpler input olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-11-12 08:43 -0600
  Re: Simulating halt decider applied to a simpler input olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-11-12 09:50 -0600

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