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Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry???

From Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c++
Subject Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry???
Date 2022-11-08 11:29 +0000
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <tkdeht$8bb$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References <tk14tc$1h5hb$6@dont-email.me> <fafc95cb-aecb-4235-9cc8-6b948366ca2an@googlegroups.com>

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Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> wrote:
> You keep on adding features to the language which have unintuitive syntax and odd rules, and
> don't do much to increase the number of programs you can write quickly. So what happens?
> Theres not much motivation to learn these features until forced to do so. So codebases tend
> to be mainly legacy, and C++ programmers' skills fall behind.

For the longest time I quite strongly disagreed with the claim that C++ is
becoming too big and too complicated.

However, C++20 has eroded this conviction of mine somewhat. C++23 is eroding
it even more.

C++11 felt like a big bunch of features that the language was in dire need
of, and genuinely made programming easier. C++14 and C++17 fixed and patched
many of the minor problems and defects that turned out to exist in C++11,
so C++17 felt like "what C++11 should have been in the first place".

C++20, however, doesn't feel like this anymore. It has a few new features
that genuinely help in programming, but most of it feels like just adding
features for the sake of adding them. C++23 even moreso.

With both there are tons of features for which I genuinely think "who
exactly asked for this? Who actually needs this? Does the language truly
need and benefit from this?"

When you read the feature proposal papers, they feel a lot like it's
just someone proposing a feature for the sake of proposing it, rather
than it filling an *actual* useful need that the language is in dire
need of. In many cases I don't even understand why they have been
accepted.

And even so, even when some feature *is* somewhat widely requested, they
should still weigh in how much it *actually* contributes to the usability
of the language, and how much it adds to its complexity (which is already
quite high). The standardization committee seems to have a problem with
saying "no" even to some sounds-like-it-could-be-useful feature proposals
(not to talk about some that aren't all that useful).

This feeling of adding-features-just-for-the-sake-of-adding-them is
something that has really started to give me a distaste for the newer
versions of the standard. Both C++20 and C++23 have actual useful
features that I'm looking forward to, but they seem to be a very small
minority of all features.

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Thread

“The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-11-03 14:30 -0500
  Re: “The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry” "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-11-03 13:03 -0700
    Re: “The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry” "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-11-03 13:04 -0700
      Re: “The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-11-03 16:07 -0500
    Re: “The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-11-03 16:05 -0500
      Re: “The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry” "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-11-03 14:25 -0700
        Re: “The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-11-05 14:12 -0500
          Re: “The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry” "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-11-05 14:20 -0700
      Re: “The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry” Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-11-04 09:24 +0100
  Re: “The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry” Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2022-11-05 21:42 +0000
  Re: “The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry” "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-11-06 11:55 -0800
  Re: “The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry” Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-11-08 02:44 -0800
    Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-11-08 11:29 +0000
      Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2022-11-08 03:54 -0800
        Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? Stuart Redmann <DerTopper@web.de> - 2022-11-08 14:26 +0100
          Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2022-11-09 00:22 -0800
        Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-11-08 15:16 +0000
      Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-11-08 14:52 +0100
      Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2022-11-08 22:48 +0000
      Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-11-08 15:39 -0800
        Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-09 09:29 +0100
          Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-11-09 14:39 +0000
            Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-09 17:05 +0100
              Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-11-09 17:58 +0000
          Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-11-09 11:47 -0800
            Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-11-09 20:43 +0000
              Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-10 09:52 +0100
                Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-11-10 03:07 -0800
                Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-11-10 11:53 -0800
                Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-10 21:44 +0100
                Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-11-10 12:53 -0800
                Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-11-10 21:20 +0000
                Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-11-10 13:23 -0800
                Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-11 08:10 +0100
                Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2022-11-11 01:45 -0800
              Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry??? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-11-10 03:14 -0800
      Re: ???The pool of talented C++ developers is running         dry??? Sam <sam@email-scan.com> - 2022-11-09 07:59 -0500

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