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Re: bad alloc

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From Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c++
Subject Re: bad alloc
Date Fri, 02 Sep 2011 17:45:26 +1200
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On 09/ 2/11 04:37 PM, Adam Skutt wrote:
> On Sep 1, 7:29 pm, Joshua Maurice<joshuamaur...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> No, that does not follow at all. You need to consider the goal of the
>>> exception handler: succeed no matter what state the application is in
>>> vs. the goals of the rest of the program: succeed only if possible.
>>> The latter means no memory allocation.
>
>> Why do you claim that those are their goals? Has a stakeholder ever
>> given you such requirements?
>
> Yes, plenty of people here seem to be convinced handling OOM (by not
> crashing) is a requirement for writing "robust" software; that means
> being able to perform some sort of action (such as logging) and
> continue onward after the OOM condition.  However, some people here
> also seem to believe that performing I/O doesn't effect program state,
> so their requirements are probably not worth fulfilling.
>
> Still, this plays into my larger point: even if you have a situation
> where you can respond to an OOM condition in some meaningful fashion
> other than termination, you're still not assured of success.  Put more
> plainly, handling OOM doesn't ipso facto ensure additional
> robustness.  You need to be able to handle the OOM condition and have
> a reasonable assurance that your response will actually succeed.  It
> may be an overstatement on my part to say, "Succeed no matter what",
> but making the software more "robust" certainly means tending closer
> to that extreme than the opposite.

I agree.  On a descent hosted environment, memory exhaustion is usually 
down to either a system wide problem, or a programming error.  If you 
require an application to be "robust" then you can use an external 
entity to manage and if necessary, restart it.  This is common practice 
for system processes.

I have done this in the past where an application ran in a resource 
limited Solaris zone and was monitored from outside of the zone.  On a 
general purpose system, it is difficult and often impossible for an 
application to determine how much free memory the system will be able to 
provide.  On systems with over commit any guess will be too optimistic 
and on system with processes then release memory on demand, too pessimistic.

In a resource constrained environment, critical processes can perform 
all their allocations up front before any other processes start.

> As a concrete example, writing all this OOM handling code does me no
> good if when my process finally hits a OOM condition, my whole
> computer is going to die anyway.      For many applications, this is
> one of two reasons why they'll ever see an OOM condition.

I agree.

> Of course, the reality is that all of this rarely makes software more
> robust, because actual robust systems generally are pretty tolerant of
> things like program termination.  As I've said before, frequently it's
> even preferable to terminate, even when it would be possible to
> recover from the error.   This makes the value proposition of handling
> OOM even less worthwhile.

Indeed, robustness goes beyond a single application.

-- 
Ian Collins

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Thread

bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-29 23:26 -0700
  Re: bad alloc Krice <paulkp@mbnet.fi> - 2011-08-30 02:14 -0700
    Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 06:26 -0700
      Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 14:34 +0100
        Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 06:54 -0700
          Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 15:02 +0100
            Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 15:06 +0100
            Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 07:20 -0700
              Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 15:31 +0100
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 07:47 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 15:52 +0100
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 08:00 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 16:15 +0100
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 10:31 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 18:58 +0100
                Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 19:18 +0100
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 16:17 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-08-31 00:56 +0100
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 17:11 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-08-31 01:24 +0100
                Re: bad alloc Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-31 12:33 +1200
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 18:38 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Noah Roberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-08-30 20:07 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-31 04:04 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Noah Roberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-08-31 09:17 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-08-31 14:59 +0100
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-01 00:50 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-09-01 12:41 +0100
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-01 05:00 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-09-01 13:59 +0100
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-01 06:35 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-09-01 14:50 +0100
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-01 13:51 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-09-01 21:58 +0100
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-01 14:05 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-09-01 22:08 +0100
                Re: bad alloc Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-02 03:16 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-02 04:12 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-09-02 15:08 +0100
                Re: bad alloc Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-02 03:07 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-02 04:15 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 11:21 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 10:46 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 18:58 +0100
                Re: bad alloc "Waldek M." <wm@localhost.localdomain> - 2011-08-31 20:58 +0200
                Re: bad alloc "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-09-03 10:13 +0200
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-05 18:53 -0700
            Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 16:28 -0700
              Re: bad alloc Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-01 00:49 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-01 04:50 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-02 03:17 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-02 04:21 -0700
                Re: bad alloc James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 16:23 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-02 03:19 -0700
                Re: bad alloc James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-03 15:37 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2011-09-04 09:25 +0200
        Re: bad alloc James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 16:20 -0700
      Re: bad alloc Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-08-30 06:54 -0700
        Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 07:12 -0700
    Re: bad alloc Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2011-08-30 22:58 +0200
      Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 15:56 -0700
        Re: bad alloc yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-08-31 09:28 +0000
          Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-31 04:20 -0700
            Re: bad alloc yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-02 14:57 +0000
              Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-02 08:35 -0700
          Re: bad alloc Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-08-31 04:25 -0700
  Re: bad alloc Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-08-30 03:26 -0700
    Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 05:54 -0700
      Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 14:30 +0100
        Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 07:00 -0700
          Re: bad alloc Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-08-31 00:37 -0700
            Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-31 04:26 -0700
      Re: bad alloc Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-08-30 07:03 -0700
        Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 07:57 -0700
          Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 16:04 +0100
            Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 08:15 -0700
              Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 16:20 +0100
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 10:37 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 18:41 +0100
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 10:49 -0700
          Re: bad alloc Asger-P <junk@asger-p.dk> - 2011-08-31 10:33 +0200
            Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-31 04:22 -0700
    Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-08-30 16:04 -0700
      Re: bad alloc Noah Roberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-08-30 20:02 -0700
        Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-08-30 20:33 -0700
          Re: bad alloc Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-08-31 01:30 -0700
            Re: bad alloc yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-08-31 09:23 +0000
              Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-08-31 04:21 -0700
              Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-08-31 04:47 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-31 05:35 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-01 01:08 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 03:56 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-02 04:18 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2011-09-03 18:37 +0200
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-03 13:39 -0700
                Re: bad alloc red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> - 2011-09-03 13:45 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-03 13:51 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Sjouke Burry <burryNULNULFOUR@PPLLAANNEETT.NNLL> - 2011-09-04 00:14 +0200
                Re: bad alloc James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-03 15:51 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-04 12:15 +1200
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-04 05:00 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-05 18:13 -0700
                Re: bad alloc James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-03 15:45 -0700
                Re: bad alloc yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-02 15:40 +0000
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-02 09:33 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-02 14:06 -0700
                Re: bad alloc "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-09-03 10:12 +0200
            Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-08-31 04:21 -0700
      Re: bad alloc Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-08-31 01:22 -0700
        Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-08-31 05:18 -0700
          Re: bad alloc Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-08-31 06:36 -0700
            Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-08-31 09:33 -0700
              Re: bad alloc Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 00:20 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 04:25 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-09-01 12:51 +0100
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 06:04 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 06:26 -0700
              Re: bad alloc James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 16:58 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 17:25 -0700
                Re: bad alloc James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-03 16:02 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-05 18:20 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-05 19:13 -0700
                Re: bad alloc James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-06 15:39 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-06 17:26 -0700
                Re: bad alloc James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-06 15:35 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-06 17:28 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 21:01 -0700
                Re: bad alloc James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-03 16:14 -0700
                Re: bad alloc "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-09-05 10:31 +0200
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-05 18:36 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-06 04:09 -0700
                Re: bad alloc James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-06 15:49 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-06 17:11 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-09-07 00:24 -0700
          Re: bad alloc Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-08-31 09:59 -0700
            Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-08-31 11:24 -0700
              Re: bad alloc Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 16:29 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 16:42 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 21:37 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-02 17:45 +1200
                Re: bad alloc James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-03 16:20 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-04 12:03 +1200
                Re: bad alloc James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-04 10:56 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-05 18:50 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-09-06 00:12 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-06 03:04 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-09-07 00:08 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-07 02:33 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-07 04:28 -0700
                Re: bad alloc yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-06 13:43 +0000
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-06 07:37 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-09-07 00:11 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-07 04:29 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-09-07 05:38 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-07 18:17 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-09-08 00:45 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-06 06:58 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-06 09:21 -0700
                Re: bad alloc "Fred Zwarts \(KVI\)" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> - 2011-09-07 09:10 +0200
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-07 04:18 -0700
                Re: bad alloc yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-07 10:34 +0000
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-07 04:00 -0700
                Re: bad alloc yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-08 12:11 +0000
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-08 06:27 -0700
                Re: bad alloc James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-06 15:52 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-06 17:16 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-07 02:39 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-07 04:14 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-06 17:00 +1200
                Re: bad alloc Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-06 14:51 +0900
                Re: bad alloc James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-06 15:55 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-05 18:44 -0700
                Re: bad alloc yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-07 10:20 +0000
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-07 03:40 -0700
                Re: bad alloc yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-13 17:06 +0000
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-13 12:09 -0700
                Re: bad alloc "Paul" <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-14 00:18 +0100
                Re: bad alloc yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-14 15:11 +0000
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-14 11:17 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-09-15 04:17 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-15 06:50 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-09-15 07:31 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-15 07:59 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-09-16 00:19 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Noah Roberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-17 10:13 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-09-18 10:07 -0700
                Re: bad alloc yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-16 15:41 +0000
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-16 11:26 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-09-16 15:38 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-17 04:25 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 23:17 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-09-02 04:03 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-02 04:37 -0700
                Re: bad alloc Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-09-02 15:15 +0100
                Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-02 07:35 -0700
    Re: bad alloc Adam Skutt <askutt@gmail.com> - 2011-08-30 16:06 -0700
      Re: bad alloc Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 16:45 -0700

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