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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #124548

Ljubljana School versus Zurich School (Was: Viswath & Charmaigne)

From Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm>
Newsgroups comp.theory, comp.lang.c, comp.lang.c++
Subject Ljubljana School versus Zurich School (Was: Viswath & Charmaigne)
Date 2026-08-03 20:14 +0200
Message-ID <114qlpk$t7q2$1@solani.org> (permalink)
References <pSOdnQhJoplzO_r3nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@giganews.com>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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Hi,

I even don't remember exactly why I landed
in comp.theory. A yes, because Rossy Boy,
was hooked on SIMD and didn't understand Hack.

But the Hack work, rather belongs to my
Alma Mater Zurich and my personal heros, Gutnecht
and Wirth, who wrote a one pass Modula

compiler during some christmas holidays,
back then when I was student. Not sure
whether the Ljubljana School can do that,

when I read this here:

Finite Algebraic Effects as dicts and such
https://www.philipzucker.com/bdd_term_alg_effects/

I only find gibberish like:
- “Data” is somehow less mysterious to me
   than “computation”.  [..] I don’t even
   know what “computation” really is

- In temporal logic, there is a logic CTL
   which talks about computation trees.

- Algerbaic (LoL) effects is almost a complete
   hackery abuse of the notion of arity
   and that’s neat.

- Then there are 10^10 etc vectors which
   show up if you discretize 3d/4d space. [..]
   or reinforcement learning.

- Etc..

WTF is this guy smoking? I mean he even
doesn't uses math notation, only posts
Python code fragments à go go,

possibly a Python brain damage.

But still less sever than Rossy Boys.

Bye

Ross Finlayson schrieb:
> Hello, here I'll post some design notes and a panel discussion with some
> chat-bots about making some sense of the "vector-wide scalar word"
> and "character machines", on commodity hardware about ubiquitous 
> operations.
> 
> 
> It's considered at least tangentially relevant to comp.lang.c and
> comp.lang.c++ because for example text is ubiquitous and the targets
> would be low-level, while the higher-level languages would have a
> same sort of patternry, and for example that libc and cstdlib are
> standard, and as with regards to POSIX and Unicode and so on.
> 
> Please feel free to excuse or ignore, or comment as freely.
> 
> Thanks for reading.
>

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Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-27 11:43 -0700
  Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-28 02:47 +0800
    Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-27 15:07 -0700
      Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-28 00:25 +0200
        Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-27 16:09 -0700
          Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-27 16:33 -0700
        Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-27 15:48 -0700
      Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 07:44 -0700
        You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL (Was: Viswath & Charmaigne) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 17:11 +0200
          Re: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL (Was: Viswath & Charmaigne) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 08:25 -0700
            Re: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL (Was: Viswath & Charmaigne) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-29 23:49 +0800
              Re: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL (Was: Viswath & Charmaigne) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 08:59 -0700
              I don't care about Java, pi-WAM is pi-calculus and WAM (Re: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 18:05 +0200
                Underneath pi-WAM is Hack VM, you can goto (Was: I don't care about Java, pi-WAM is pi-calculus and WAM) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 18:09 +0200
                New addition to π-WAM is π-WAM Assembly (Was: Underneath pi-WAM is Hack VM, you can goto) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-09 19:45 +0200
                Re: I don't care about Java, pi-WAM is pi-calculus and WAM (Re: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 09:11 -0700
                A yellow mustard called Rossy Body (Was: I don't care about Java, pi-WAM is pi-calculus and WAM) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 18:30 +0200
                Ignoramus or Ignorabimus: I don't care (π-WAM) (Was: A yellow mustard called Rossy Body) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 18:31 +0200
          Hurry Rossy Boy, the blue bus is waiting (Was: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 17:32 +0200
            Re: Hurry Rossy Boy, the blue bus is waiting (Was: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 08:36 -0700
            Look how they advertized CUDA and logical threads (Was: Hurry Rossy Boy, the blue bus is waiting) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 17:43 +0200
              Forget any arithmetization of product FSA (Was: Look how they advertized CUDA and logical threads) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 17:47 +0200
                comp.lang.lisp (was: Re: Forget any arithmetization of product FSA) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-29 23:53 +0800
              Re: Look how they advertized CUDA and logical threads (Was: Hurry Rossy Boy, the blue bus is waiting) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 08:53 -0700
          There are two versions of Hack VM (Was: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 18:14 +0200
            Hack VM has also a Prolog spec (Was: There are two versions of Hack VM) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 18:17 +0200
              A better compiler is planned / What do you target? (Was: Hack VM has also a Prolog spec) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 18:22 +0200
                It’s called . . . . enshittification (About the price tag for using a multifile/1) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-14 00:50 +0200
          Budget AI Laptop 2026 versus Cray T3D 1995 (Re: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-05 14:24 +0200
    A brain desease of 20 days [Rossy Boy] (Was: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines)) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 18:38 +0200
      Rossy Boys tears could cool a data center [pi-WAM Interleaved Synchronized Emulator] Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 20:05 +0200
        Re: Rossy Boys tears could cool a data center [pi-WAM Interleaved Synchronized Emulator] Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 11:13 -0700
          I don't use Rust, you are crazy [Jump off a bridge, idiot] (Was: Rossy Boys tears could cool a data center [pi-WAM Interleaved Synchronized Emulator]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 20:22 +0200
            Standing on the shoulders of giants (Re: I don't use Rust, you are crazy [Jump off a bridge, idiot]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-04 03:20 +0200
              You Thief! Stealing Szemeredi, Aristotle, Leibniz, etc.. (Re: Standing on the shoulders of giants) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-04 15:18 +0200
                How Rossy Boys plagiarism works [Copy Paste Slop] (Re: You Thief! Stealing Szemeredi, Aristotle, Leibniz, etc..) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-04 17:56 +0200
          Postgres is in C! Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-30 03:46 +0800
            Re: Postgres is in C! Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 13:47 -0700
              Please don't extend your cross posting / What does abstract mean? (Was: Postgres is in C!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 23:00 +0200
                Re: Please don't extend your cross posting / What does abstract mean? (Was: Postgres is in C!) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-30 21:05 +0800
                Re: Please don't extend your cross posting / What does abstract mean? (Was: Postgres is in C!) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-07-30 14:46 +0000
                Re: Please don't extend your cross posting / What does abstract mean? Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-07-30 16:00 +0000
              Please don't extend your cross posting / What does abstract mean? (Was: Postgres is in C!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 23:05 +0200
              Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java (was: Re: Postgres is in C!) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-30 21:20 +0800
                Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-30 06:59 -0700
                Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-30 07:24 -0700
                Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 09:58 +0800
                Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-30 23:19 +0800
                Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-30 09:23 -0700
                Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-30 09:36 -0700
                Decorum (was: Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-31 23:07 +0800
                Re: Decorum Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-31 23:09 +0800
                Re: Decorum Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-31 08:36 -0700
                Re: Decorum Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-31 08:44 -0700
                Re: Decorum Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 10:38 +0800
                Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 10:15 +0800
                Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-04 23:31 -0700
                Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 12:42 -0700
                Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 13:24 -0700
                Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 13:30 -0700
                Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 13:45 -0700
                Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 20:42 -0700
                Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-07 09:55 +0800
                Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-07 05:13 -0700
                Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-07 05:59 -0700
                Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-07 09:53 +0800
                Re: Mars, the MIPS emulator in Java Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-06 20:11 -0700
            Hack ecosystem ignorance paired with paranoia [Nand to Tetris] (Re: Postgres is in C!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 22:49 +0200
              A funny Q16.16 experiment with Hack (Was: Hack ecosystem ignorance paired with paranoia [Nand to Tetris]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 23:10 +0200
                Summer Challenge: libSQL = Prolog+Modes [VDBE versus π-WAM] (Re: A funny Q16.16 experiment with Hack) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-30 11:27 +0200
                Re: Bullshit Authorized by Sarah Connor [EyeProlog Failure] (Re: Summer Challenge: libSQL = Prolog+Modes [VDBE versus π-WAM]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-12 20:30 +0200
              RCan library(ironpaw) repurpose FFT hardware [Glimps into Ryzen AI 7 350] (Re: Hack ecosystem ignorance paired with paranoia) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 02:33 +0200
              Can library(ironpaw) repurpose FFT hardware [Glimps into Ryzen AI 7 350] (Re: Hack ecosystem ignorance paired with paranoia) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 02:34 +0200
            Turbo Vison, again (was: Re: Postgres is in C!) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-30 21:31 +0800
      He uses "FIFO objects", and DMA and Noc [Glimps into Ryzen AI 7 350] (Re: A brain desease of 20 days [Rossy Boy])) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 12:15 +0200
        Tablet and phone UBS-C remote debugging (Re: He uses "FIFO objects", and DMA and Noc) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 12:18 +0200
          NPUs doing 2d chess comms (Manhattan Distance or L1 Norm) (Re: Tablet and phone UBS-C remote debugging) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 14:11 +0200
            NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance (Re: NPUs doing 2d chess comms) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 14:23 +0200
  Rossy Boy is neither Einstein nor Zweistein (Re: Viswath & Charmaigne) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 21:18 +0200
    Re: Rossy Boy is neither Einstein nor Zweistein (Re: Viswath & Charmaigne) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-27 15:35 -0700
      Clueless about MIMD as usual [Flynn's Taxonomy] (Was: Rossy Boy is neither Einstein nor Zweistein) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-28 11:25 +0200
        Re: Clueless about MIMD as usual [Flynn's Taxonomy] (Was: Rossy Boy is neither Einstein nor Zweistein) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-28 20:39 -0700
          confused rossy boy is confused (Was: Clueless about MIMD as usual [Flynn's Taxonomy]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 11:15 +0200
            Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI more clever than rossy boy (Was: confused rossy boy is confused) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 11:18 +0200
            Re: confused rossy boy is confused (Was: Clueless about MIMD as usual [Flynn's Taxonomy]) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-29 17:21 +0800
              In AI Acceleration nobody cares about CivetWeb (Was: confused rossy boy is confused) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 11:27 +0200
                Re: In AI Acceleration nobody cares about CivetWeb (Was: confused rossy boy is confused) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-29 17:40 +0800
                Your strictness is your problem , not mine [See WebLLM] (Was: In AI Acceleration nobody cares about CivetWeb) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 11:46 +0200
                Graphics Processing with Fortran 77 (was: Re: Your strictness is your problem , not mine) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-29 18:10 +0800
                I am not in C, it is theory and C++ [Hybrid Approaches from KOAN/Fortran-S] (Was: Graphics Processing with Fortran 77) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 12:43 +0200
                Java picky concerning JIT-ing [Luckier with C++/C or FORTRAN compilers?] (Re: I am not in C, it is theory and C++) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 12:53 +0200
                Run with minimum HTTPS and .mjs type (Re: In AI Acceleration nobody cares about CivetWeb) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 11:48 +0200
                Lamas in a cradle and Lamas on the edge [Red Pyjama] (Was: Run with minimum HTTPS and .mjs type) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 13:05 +0200
                Synthetic Multilanguage Autoformalization Dataset [Informath project] (Re: Lamas in a cradle and Lamas on the edge [Red Pyjama]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-08 09:22 +0200
                Six Proofs and Generally Inteligent Systems [EyeProlog Pseudo Scientism] (Re: Synthetic Multilanguage Autoformalization Dataset [Informath project]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-15 15:20 +0200
                Everybody does eat and sleep [The SK hynix Story] (Re: Six Proofs and Generally Inteligent Systems [EyeProlog Pseudo Scientism]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-15 18:49 +0200
              Re: confused rossy boy is confused (Was: Clueless about MIMD as usual [Flynn's Taxonomy]) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 14:42 -0700
                Even send_color and recv_color can block [Cerebras Waver] (Was: confused rossy boy is confused) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 23:37 +0200
                Re: Even send_color and recv_color can block [Cerebras Waver] (Was: confused rossy boy is confused) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-02 14:40 -0700
                Re: Even send_color and recv_color can block [Cerebras Waver] (Was: confused rossy boy is confused) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-02 14:43 -0700
                You don't understand that compute shaders are tasks (Was: Even send_color and recv_color can block [Cerebras Waver]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 23:45 +0200
                You don't understand that compute shaders are tasks (Re: Even send_color and recv_color can block [Cerebras Waver]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 23:46 +0200
                Ignoramus / Ignorabimus Barometer: Almost 1 Month (Re: You don't understand that compute shaders are tasks) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 00:09 +0200
                Homework: Game Engine in WebGPU (Re: Ignoramus / Ignorabimus Barometer: Almost 1 Month) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 02:08 +0200
                Re: Homework: Game Engine in WebGPU (Re: Ignoramus / Ignorabimus Barometer: Almost 1 Month) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 11:55 -0700
                You are not correctly thinking (Was: Homework: Game Engine in WebGPU) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 21:04 +0200
                Re: You are not correctly thinking (Was: Homework: Game Engine in WebGPU) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 12:32 -0700
                You don't understand the economy of an AI Laptop (Was: You are not correctly thinking) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 22:24 +0200
                You don't understand producer , workers , consumer (Was: You don't understand the economy of an AI Laptop ) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 22:37 +0200
                Re: You don't understand producer , workers , consumer (Was: You don't understand the economy of an AI Laptop ) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-03 14:29 -0700
                Know nothing and forget what you posted day before (Was: You don't understand producer , workers , consumer) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 23:38 +0200
  Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-30 06:49 -0700
    Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-07-30 14:55 -0700
    Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-31 12:55 -0700
      Re: Viswath & Charmaigne (vector-wide scalar-word and character machines) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-31 13:05 -0700
  Ljubljana School versus Zurich School (Was: Viswath & Charmaigne) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 20:14 +0200
    Re: Ljubljana School versus Zurich School (Was: Viswath & Charmaigne) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-04 02:21 +0800
      pi-WAM uses ADA RendezVous (Was: Ljubljana School versus Zurich School) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 20:35 +0200
        A spinlock rewrite will be necessary (Was: pi-WAM uses ADA RendezVous) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 21:00 +0200
    Big thanks to Ljubljana School [Searching 0xCAFFEE] (Was: Ljubljana School versus Zurich School) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 20:40 +0200

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