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Re: fun with a mutex...

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From cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross)
Newsgroups comp.lang.c++
Subject Re: fun with a mutex...
Date Sat, 9 Aug 2025 09:17:25 -0000 (UTC)
Organization PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
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References <106cc2f$31ti3$1@dont-email.me> <1070m2s$3lg2n$4@dont-email.me> <1073l39$mpg$2@reader1.panix.com> <1073snp$en4a$3@dont-email.me>
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Originator cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross)
Xref csiph.com comp.lang.c++:122500

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In article <1073snp$en4a$3@dont-email.me>,
Chris M. Thomasson <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 8/7/2025 6:49 PM, Dan Cross wrote:
>> In article <1070m2s$3lg2n$4@dont-email.me>,
>> Chris M. Thomasson <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> [snip]
>>> carefully is the key concept! Yikes... Shit... However, basically, it
>>> still boils down to trying other "work" on a spin can keep the thread
>>> "hot" doing other work, instead of spinning on an adaptive logic of a
>>> mutex, nothing nothing?
>> 
>> Keeping a thread "hot" without being able to make any sort of
>> meaningful guarantee about the viability of the scheme as a
>> general mechanism is not useful, when considering the scheme as
>> a general mechanism.
>
>general mechanism? No. Oh no. I am no trying to do that at all. How 
>about a sometimes it might be okay type of scenario? Argh! My mind keeps 
>on thinking of other work that will not spin off into never never land, 
>the nightmare thing I mentioned. It will not deadlock, actually, not 
>sure how it could deadlock in this highly special realm, anyway... That 
>call to a try IOCP means that is has the "chance" to gain data, checking 
>a thread local queues has a chance to have other work while the mutex is 
>in contention anyway via try_lock fail? Oh my.... I am grasping at 
>straws here.. But, it still might be okay for certain scenarios?

Yes, you are grasping at straws.

People have written code that tries to take a lock, and if that
fails, does something else, for decades.  The idea is neither
new, nor terribly interesting.  Sorry.

>Actually, way back, 20-25 years ago when I was messing around with proxy 
>collectors... I had a base case that used mutexes only. No fancy 
>atomics, ect... Pre C++11, ect... It worked. If a per thread mutex 
>try_lock failed it meant a reaper thread got a hold of it, and it should 
>lock its next generation of mutexes. all per thread. This would allow 
>for a RCU type of setup using mutexes only. Pretty fun.

That vague, incomplete description sounds nothing like how RCU
works.

	- Dan C.

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Thread

fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-07-29 22:54 -0700
  Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-02 12:58 -0700
    Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-02 13:00 -0700
    Re: fun with a mutex... Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-08-04 08:48 +0000
      Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-04 12:34 -0700
        Re: fun with a mutex... Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-08-05 07:27 +0000
          Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-05 16:10 -0700
            Re: fun with a mutex... cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-06 00:38 +0000
              Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-05 19:14 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-06 11:29 +0000
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-06 15:43 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-08 01:41 +0000
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-07 20:52 -0700
              Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-05 19:16 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-06 12:04 +0000
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-06 15:47 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-08 01:49 +0000
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-07 20:59 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-09 09:17 +0000
                Re: fun with a mutex... Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-08-09 11:52 +0200
                Re: fun with a mutex... cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-09 16:08 +0000
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-09 10:48 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-10 03:08 +0000
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-11 13:37 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-13 11:41 +0000
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-15 17:28 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-18 20:25 +0000
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-18 13:34 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-18 20:39 +0000
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-18 14:06 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-18 14:28 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-18 14:33 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-18 22:56 +0000
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-18 16:09 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-18 23:44 +0000
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-18 16:55 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-18 23:57 +0000
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-19 13:25 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-15 17:30 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-18 20:26 +0000
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-18 13:39 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-18 20:44 +0000
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-18 14:08 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-18 16:11 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-18 16:20 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-08-11 11:04 +0200
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-11 13:30 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-08-12 10:23 +0200
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-12 01:31 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-08-12 10:39 +0200
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-12 01:45 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-08-12 10:56 +0200
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-12 02:14 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-08-12 15:08 +0200
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-15 21:36 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-08-16 10:13 +0200
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-16 01:56 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-08-16 11:05 +0200
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-16 13:31 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-08-17 14:50 +0200
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-17 13:43 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-13 11:45 +0000
                Re: fun with a mutex... Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-08-13 19:07 +0200
                Re: fun with a mutex... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-13 17:31 +0000
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-15 10:00 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-13 12:41 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-09 10:44 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-09 11:00 -0700
        Re: fun with a mutex... "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-08-05 10:27 +0200
          Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-05 16:07 -0700
            Re: fun with a mutex... "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-08-06 10:56 +0200
              Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-06 15:36 -0700
      Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-04 12:38 -0700
        Re: fun with a mutex... Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-08-05 07:29 +0000
          Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-05 16:08 -0700
  Re: fun with a mutex... Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-08-06 15:51 +0200
    Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-06 15:34 -0700
      Re: fun with a mutex... Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-08-07 06:44 +0200
        Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-07 12:17 -0700
          Re: fun with a mutex... Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-08-07 21:51 +0200
            Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-07 12:52 -0700
              Re: fun with a mutex... Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-08-16 11:21 +0200
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-16 13:22 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-08-17 03:59 +0200
                Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-16 23:53 -0700
                Re: fun with a mutex... Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-08-17 10:37 +0200
        Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-07 12:32 -0700
      Re: fun with a mutex... cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-08 01:51 +0000
        Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-07 21:01 -0700
          Re: fun with a mutex... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-07 21:08 -0700

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