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"direct" URI for SciDB download?

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  "direct" URI for SciDB download? Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com> - 2013-07-15 08:34 +0000
    Re: "direct" URI for SciDB download? JJ <duh@nah.meh> - 2013-07-16 00:46 +0700
    Re: "direct" URI for SciDB download? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2013-07-15 14:58 -0500
      Re: "direct" URI for SciDB download? Eric <eric@deptj.eu> - 2013-07-15 22:10 +0100
        Re: "direct" URI for SciDB download? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2013-07-18 01:27 -0500
          Re: "direct" URI for SciDB download? Eric <eric@deptj.eu> - 2013-07-18 20:24 +0100
        Re: "direct" URI for SciDB download? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-07-23 10:31 +0000
          Re: "direct" URI for SciDB download? Eric <eric@deptj.eu> - 2013-07-23 20:22 +0100

#402 — "direct" URI for SciDB download?

	I wonder if someone could provide a "direct" URI for SciDB [1]
	sources and documentation?  They appear to require a
	registration at their forum [2], which I find somewhat
	disturbing, -- and rather surprising, -- given that they claim
	to make the software available under GNU GPLv3.

	TIA.

[1] http://www.scidb.org/
[2] http://www.scidb.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=364/

-- 
FSF associate member #7257

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#403

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:34:43 +0000, Ivan Shmakov wrote:
> 	I wonder if someone could provide a "direct" URI for SciDB [1]
> 	sources and documentation?  They appear to require a
> 	registration at their forum [2], which I find somewhat
> 	disturbing, -- and rather surprising, -- given that they claim
> 	to make the software available under GNU GPLv3.

Don't know about SciDB, but that usually happen for open source softwares
that are originally proprietary.

SciDB isn't popular enough, and with that hesitant "openness" stance, it's
not surprising that there aren't any mirror for it.

I can't find a direct download except for the SciDB-R files and the HTML
version of the documentation.

HTML documentations: (use HTTrack to fetch them all)
http://www.scidb.org/HTMLmanual/13.6/scidb_ug/index.html

SciDB-R:
http://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/scidb/

But who says you have to use your real name, user name, and email address to
register to a website? There are plenty of disposable email providers out
there.

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#404

Ivan Shmakov wrote:

> I wonder if someone could provide a "direct" URI for SciDB [1]
> sources 

They use GIF images as hotspots in their web page to show either a
drop-down menu or nagivate to another page.  Their top navbar (made up
of GIF hotspots) is broken for the "Download" and "Forum" links.  As
you hover the mouse pointer over them, you can see the URL to where
the hotspots point.  Seems pretty stupid they point to a forum post
for downloads rather than to their own download page.  Once you see to
where the hotspot points (that depends on which web browser you use
but didn't mention; e.g., hover over a hotspot and look in the status
bar for IE), you can enter that URL in the address bar of your web
browser.  So, hovering over the "Download" hotspot shows the following
URL in IE's status bar:

http://www.scidb.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=364/

> and documentation?  

http://www.scidb.org/HTMLmanual/13.6/scidb_ug/index.html

Their "Documentation" hotspot in their navbar does work.  As of today,
you should see a drop-down list of two versions: 13.6 and 13.3.

> They appear to require a registration at their forum [2], which I
> find somewhat disturbing, -- and rather surprising, -- given that
> they claim to make the software available under GNU GPLv3.
> 
> [1] http://www.scidb.org/
> [2] http://www.scidb.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=364/

Forums often require registration to thwart spam and allow for
moderation.  If anyone can post without first logging in then they can
deluge a forum with junk posts.  They can disrupt the forum without
any recourse by the forum owner, as in killing their account.  

Since when has free ever mandated unregistered?  Having to register
doesn't obviate that it is still free.  I bet you aren't paying
anything to use the forum even after registering to use it.

You are using an UNregistered free Usenet provider (AIOE).  I'm using
a registered FREE Usenet provider (Albasani).  They're both free.  The
disadvantage with AIOE (and why I color-tag posts from there to give
me a heads up a post is from an AIOElite) is that without registration
then there is nothing to lose by the trolls, malcontents, inane, and
other types that swarm to that provider.  With a registered free
service, a user does have something to lose: their account along with
the time to make a new account, especially if new accounts take time
by personal authorization by the provider rather than an automated
new-account create procedure.  The same is true for unregistered
versus registered forums: bad posters have something to lose at a
registered service.

Most often you have to register if you want to post (write) to a
forum.  Less often is that you have to register to read a forum.
Usually they're more concerned about controlling the quality of their
forums which means they need a means of regulating their posters and
less concerned that their content remains secret.  They'll let you
read but you have to register to post.  I have no problems reading
their forum posts and I am not registered there and did not login to
read those posts.  They want to cultivate good posters to provide a
useful community and weed out the bad posters.  Can't weed unless you
have a means of plucking them out.

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#405

On 2013-07-15, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
> Ivan Shmakov wrote:
>
>> I wonder if someone could provide a "direct" URI for SciDB [1]
>> sources 
>
> They use GIF images as hotspots in their web page to show either a
> drop-down menu or nagivate to another page.  Their top navbar (made up
> of GIF hotspots) is broken for the "Download" and "Forum" links.  As
> you hover the mouse pointer over them, you can see the URL to where
> the hotspots point.  Seems pretty stupid they point to a forum post
> for downloads rather than to their own download page.  Once you see to
> where the hotspot points (that depends on which web browser you use
> but didn't mention; e.g., hover over a hotspot and look in the status
> bar for IE), you can enter that URL in the address bar of your web
> browser.  So, hovering over the "Download" hotspot shows the following
> URL in IE's status bar:
>
> http://www.scidb.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=364/
>
>> and documentation?  
>
> http://www.scidb.org/HTMLmanual/13.6/scidb_ug/index.html
>
> Their "Documentation" hotspot in their navbar does work.  As of today,
> you should see a drop-down list of two versions: 13.6 and 13.3.

You have missed the point that a download link for GPL software should
not dump you in a registration-required forum, as that is certainly
contrary to the spirit of the GPL. It does not matter that, as someone
else pointed out, you can easily provide fake information to get your
download. They do not understand the GPL and, I suspect, there are other
things they do not understand either. And they insist on an organisation
name for registration. To put it simply, all that is enough to create
doubts that they can be trusted.

YMMV

<snip>

> Forums often require registration to thwart spam and allow for
> moderation.  If anyone can post without first logging in then they can
> deluge a forum with junk posts.  They can disrupt the forum without
> any recourse by the forum owner, as in killing their account.  

I think we all knew this, and the rest of it. How someone runs a forum
is up to them, and if we don't like it we don't use it, but that is
actually irrelevant to the issue of download availability. 

Eric
-- 
ms fnd in a lbry

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#406

Note: Attempt to use FollowUp-To to rudely disconnect the thread from
other users was thwarted.  Original newsgroups used in my reply.

Eric wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> ... Seems pretty stupid they point to a forum post for downloads
>> rather than to their own download page.  ...
>
> You have missed the point that a download link for GPL software should
> not dump you in a registration-required forum, as that is certainly
> contrary to the spirit of the GPL. 

So you're now arguing that we agree?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gpl

Funny, but I don't see any conditions in the GPL mandating
unregistered or unfettered access to source code.  In fact, an author
of GPL-ware can chose to restrict access to the source code to those
he feels are competent to modify the code and who can better the
program rather than dilute it with crappy knockoffs by wannabe
programmers that pollute the product so badly that it garners a bad
reputation because of all the bad spinoffs.  It could be freely
accessible by those who could benefit the project rather than the
myriad of boobs that would degrade it.

The GPL doesn't explicitly guarantee unfettered access to the source
code.  "Any licensee who adheres to the terms and conditions is given
permission to modify the work, as well as to copy and redistribute the
work or any derivative version."  But what are the conditions under
which a user becomes a licensee specified in the GPL?  "The terms and
conditions of the GPL must be made available to anybody receiving a
copy of the work that has a GPL applied to it ("the licensee")."
Again, that does not dictate  everyone that wants to be a licensee is
allowed to be one.

We can argue until doomsday about what-ifs regarding accessibility to
the source code but that will effect no changes.  I looked at their
web site and they don't provide any contact info, like e-mail
addresses or web forms to give feedback.  Looks like you are stuck
using their forums to get help, complain, and make suggestions -- but
that means having to register so you can login and post there.

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#407

On 2013-07-18, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
> Note: Attempt to use FollowUp-To to rudely disconnect the thread from
> other users was thwarted.  Original newsgroups used in my reply.

Note: Failure to be aware of widely disseminated Usenet etiquette
recommendation to set Followup-To when cross-posting. Also assumption of
malicious intent considered to be an ad-hominem attack.

> Eric wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>
>>> ... Seems pretty stupid they point to a forum post for downloads
>>> rather than to their own download page.  ...
>>
>> You have missed the point that a download link for GPL software should
>> not dump you in a registration-required forum, as that is certainly
>> contrary to the spirit of the GPL. 
>
> So you're now arguing that we agree?

Definitely not. What part of "spirit of the GPL" don't you understand?
Trying to find words to back your point of view when actually there are
none strikes me as somewhat troll-ish.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gpl
>
> Funny, but I don't see any conditions in the GPL ...
<snip>

> We can argue until doomsday about what-ifs regarding accessibility to
> the source codes

No, thankyou (and BTW, "source codes" ???????).

> but that will effect no changes.

Of course not.

> I looked at their web site and they don't provide any contact info,
> like e-mail addresses or web forms to give feedback.  Looks like you are
> stuck using their forums to get help, complain, and make suggestions --
> but that means having to register so you can login and post there.

All of which confirms the uncomfortable feeling they created in the
first place.

Their software isn't as clever as they claim either.

Eric
-- 
ms fnd in a lbry

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#409

On 2013-07-15, Eric <eric@deptj.eu> wrote:
> On 2013-07-15, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
> You have missed the point that a download link for GPL software should
> not dump you in a registration-required forum, as that is certainly
> contrary to the spirit of the GPL. It does not matter that, as someone
> else pointed out, you can easily provide fake information to get your
> download. They do not understand the GPL and, I suspect, there are other
> things they do not understand either. And they insist on an organisation
> name for registration. To put it simply, all that is enough to create
> doubts that they can be trusted.

You're making that up.  GPL does not place any restrictions on how
binaries are provided, even behind a paywall is perfectly acceptable,
and they only have to provide sources to those they provide binaries.

they seem to have remodeled their site, I hit no registration forms on
the way to the doewnload page.

-- 
⚂⚃ 100% natural

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

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#410

On 2013-07-23, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:
> On 2013-07-15, Eric <eric@deptj.eu> wrote:
>> On 2013-07-15, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>
>> You have missed the point that a download link for GPL software should
>> not dump you in a registration-required forum, as that is certainly
>> contrary to the spirit of the GPL. It does not matter that, as someone
>> else pointed out, you can easily provide fake information to get your
>> download. They do not understand the GPL and, I suspect, there are other
>> things they do not understand either. And they insist on an organisation
>> name for registration. To put it simply, all that is enough to create
>> doubts that they can be trusted.
>
> You're making that up.  GPL does not place any restrictions on how
> binaries are provided, even behind a paywall is perfectly acceptable,
> and they only have to provide sources to those they provide binaries.

Pointless legalistic response, what part of "spirit of the GPL" don't
you understand?

> they seem to have remodeled their site, I hit no registration forms on
> the way to the doewnload page.

Try clicking one of the download links and see what happens!

Eric
-- 
ms fnd in a lbry

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