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Groups > comp.compression > #823 > unrolled thread

Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data

Started byErnst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net>
First post2012-01-24 09:46 -0800
Last post2012-02-02 07:46 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 119 — 13 participants

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  Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-24 09:46 -0800
    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-01-24 13:03 -0800
      Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-24 14:52 -0800
        Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 15:25 -0800
          Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-24 16:49 -0800
            Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-01-24 18:55 -0800
              Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 19:23 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-24 21:08 -0800
              Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-24 20:50 -0800
    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-25 00:09 -0600
      Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-24 23:51 -0800
        Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-25 02:28 -0600
          Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 02:54 -0800
          Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 03:08 -0800
        Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-24 23:58 -0800
      Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 00:08 -0800
      Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 02:40 -0800
        Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-25 05:25 -0600
          Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 05:20 -0800
          Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 12:12 -0800
            Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-01-25 13:32 -0800
              Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-25 14:33 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-25 17:43 -0600
                  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 19:00 -0800
                    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-01-26 07:17 -0800
                  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2012-02-08 06:06 -0500
                    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-02-08 07:30 -0800
              Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 15:19 -0800
    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-26 02:20 -0800
      Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-01-26 07:25 -0800
        Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-26 18:52 -0800
          Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-01-27 09:25 +0100
            Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-27 12:01 -0800
            Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-27 12:12 -0800
              Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-27 16:13 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-01-28 11:22 +0100
                  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-28 13:59 -0800
                    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-01-30 09:49 +0100
                      Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-01-30 08:51 -0500
                        Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 08:51 -0800
                      Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 08:38 -0800
                        Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-01-30 18:44 -0500
                          Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 15:49 -0800
                            Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 16:27 -0800
                              Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-01-31 08:46 +0100
                                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-31 03:58 -0800
                                  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-01-31 21:58 +0100
                            Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-01-31 07:41 -0500
                              Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-31 15:27 -0800
                                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-31 16:06 -0800
                                  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-01 07:47 -0500
                                    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 09:38 -0800
                                      Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-02 08:10 -0500
                                    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 20:22 -0800
                                      Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-02 06:31 -0500
                                        Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 14:15 -0800
                                        Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 19:18 -0800
                                          Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-07 06:21 -0500
                                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-01-31 19:06 -0500
                                  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-31 19:15 -0800
                                    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-01 08:24 -0500
                                      Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 09:54 -0800
                                      Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Jim Leonard <mobygamer@gmail.com> - 2012-02-01 11:00 -0800
                                        Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 21:19 -0800
                                          Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Jim Leonard <mobygamer@gmail.com> - 2012-02-02 07:15 -0800
                                      Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 20:25 -0800
                                        Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-02 07:07 -0500
                                          Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 19:35 -0800
                                            Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-07 06:33 -0500
                                  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-31 18:51 -0800
                                    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-02-01 03:51 -0800
                                      Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 09:34 -0800
                                    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-01 08:53 -0500
                                      Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 20:31 -0800
                                        Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-02 07:18 -0500
                          Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 16:47 -0800
                            Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 17:00 -0800
                              Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 18:55 -0800
                            Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-01-31 08:10 -0500
                              Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-01-31 11:31 -0800
                                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-02-02 11:11 +0100
                                  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 14:05 -0800
                                    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-08 13:35 -0500
                                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-02-02 11:24 +0100
                                  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-02-02 12:52 +0100
                                  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 14:06 -0800
                    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-01-30 07:09 -0800
                      Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 07:45 -0800
                        Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-01-30 09:42 -0800
                          Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 10:19 -0800
                          Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 12:05 -0800
                            Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Jim Leonard <mobygamer@gmail.com> - 2012-01-30 14:40 -0800
                              Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 15:11 -0800
                                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 15:43 -0800
                              Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 14:52 -0800
                            Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-01-31 04:31 -0800
                              Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-31 14:21 -0800
                                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data pfraser <pete_fraser@comcast.net> - 2012-01-31 15:04 -0800
                                  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-02-01 10:50 +0100
                                    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 20:19 -0800
                              Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2012-02-02 00:51 -0800
                                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-02-02 10:09 +0100
                                  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2012-02-02 11:43 -0800
                                    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-02-03 01:21 -0800
                                      Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-02-03 02:43 -0800
                                        Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-04 15:42 -0800
                                  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 13:53 -0800
                                    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-08 13:32 -0500
                                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-02-02 01:56 -0800
                                  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 13:54 -0800
                                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 12:59 -0800
                                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 12:47 -0800
                                  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 23:54 -0800
                                    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-08 13:22 -0500
                                  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-02-04 20:45 -0800
            Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-01-30 15:32 +0100
    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-02 06:34 -0500
    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-02 07:29 -0500
    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-02 07:46 -0500

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#883

FromErnst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net>
Date2012-01-30 08:38 -0800
Message-ID<b4c6fd01-439b-4e71-bca6-374f5be368d0@pk8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#878
On Jan 30, 12:49 am, Thomas Richter <t...@math.tu-berlin.de> wrote:
> Am 28.01.2012 22:59, schrieb Ernst:
>
> > Is it the one where the number is subtracted by one each time?
>
> This is one particular way how a remainder can be computed,though not
> the most efficient.
>
> > Would you be so kind as to link-me to the example because I didn't find a reference I could identify when I looked last.
>
> Link? I provided a *book*. You know, these things on paper, find them in
> libraries? Old-school information carrier? Actually, for the classical
> GCD algorithm, the first volume of Knuth contains quite an extensive
> study, but for modulus in general, and for Eulers work, any introductory
> book on algebra (*not* linear algebra) would suffice. Look in particular
> for the words "Number Rings", because this is what is all behind this.
>
> > So if this has been known forever why then have none of you found at least the first three factors of Million Digit file?
>
> Because nobody cared? What would you do with the first factors of the
> file in first place? Or what makes you believe that they can be
> reppresented in a more compact way than the number itself?
>
> As stated, for finding factors, there are quite a couple of algorithms,
> as stated in Knuth's book, but for numbers that size you need at least
> support for "large integers" (GNU BigNum (sp?) comes to my mind), and
> probably algorithms more advanced than the ones I quoted, and certainly
> a lot more advanced than a simple modulus reduction.
>
> > Please link me.  I really didn't see or understand then.
>
> What you need is not a link. It is a course on algebra. You cannot just
> learn this from a web page, you need to invest some time of yours. Maybe
> a book can help.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_integershttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebraic_field
>
> contains a very rough introduction, but essentially, the remainders
> after division form a mathematical object called "commutative ring",
> which means that you can add, subtract and multiply (but not necessarily
> divide) within. The properties of the modulus operation, especially how
> to split a number into factors by this method then follows from the
> properties of these rings.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_arithmetic
>
> lists some of them.

 Silly Man, a link to the Recursive Modulus method is what I am asking
for. I'd like to read more about this discovery I made. I have no luck
so far locating it with my research.

I figured that you guys would have seen such a thing.

Thanks for the information and I will look into those things.

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#891

Fromstan <smoore@exis.net>
Date2012-01-30 18:44 -0500
Message-ID<vjmjv8-138.ln1@invalid.net>
In reply to#883
Ernst wrote:

>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_arithmetic
>>
>> lists some of them.
>
>  Silly Man, a link to the Recursive Modulus method is what I am asking
> for. I'd like to read more about this discovery I made. I have no luck
> so far locating it with my research.

You've been told that the references are in math books, but you have
no interest in reading math books. What you are calling recursive
modulus is not new - you certainly didn't discover it, but I doubt you
will find many current references in the wild about current usage
because it isn't used because their are many better techniques.

You want to tackle a math problem but you don't want to learn anything
about math. Do you honestly expect to get far?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#893

FromErnst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net>
Date2012-01-30 15:49 -0800
Message-ID<7b69280f-54b0-4211-959e-4064bb89dd9a@o4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#891
On Jan 30, 3:44 pm, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
> Ernst wrote:
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_arithmetic
>
> >> lists some of them.
>
> >  Silly Man, a link to the Recursive Modulus method is what I am asking
> > for. I'd like to read more about this discovery I made. I have no luck
> > so far locating it with my research.
>
> You've been told that the references are in math books, but you have
> no interest in reading math books. What you are calling recursive
> modulus is not new - you certainly didn't discover it, but I doubt you
> will find many current references in the wild about current usage
> because it isn't used because their are many better techniques.
>
> You want to tackle a math problem but you don't want to learn anything
> about math. Do you honestly expect to get far?
How do you know what I have interest in? Freak !

You don't know anything about me.

What is wrong with you people?

Please explain how you know what I want to learn or don't you seem to
want to fight so here it is.

How do you know anything about me?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#896

FromErnst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net>
Date2012-01-30 16:27 -0800
Message-ID<d28af209-3c42-4b95-8b1d-a7dd8b5f2a33@lr19g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#893
 So are we done yet?

Can I come and ask questions and share news without the crap?

So once again I ask has anyone seen the Recursive Modulus method of
factoring?



Ernst

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#900

FromThomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de>
Date2012-01-31 08:46 +0100
Message-ID<jg8680$fkd$1@news.belwue.de>
In reply to#896
Am 31.01.2012 01:27, schrieb Ernst:
>
>   So are we done yet?
>
> Can I come and ask questions and share news without the crap?
>
> So once again I ask has anyone seen the Recursive Modulus method of
> factoring?

And once again, Euler, 1732. And yes, you find that in math books. In my 
particular case, it was a nice homework exercise we got in number theory 
that was following a five minute tutorial on the black board. As said, a 
lecture on algebra would suffice. It is probably somewhere on the 
internet, but I really don't bother why I should do your homework.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#901

FromErnst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net>
Date2012-01-31 03:58 -0800
Message-ID<0901b62c-eaed-473e-9f38-6c1467e33eca@v6g2000pba.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#900
On Jan 30, 11:46 pm, Thomas Richter <t...@math.tu-berlin.de> wrote:
> Am 31.01.2012 01:27, schrieb Ernst:
>
>
>
> >   So are we done yet?
>
> > Can I come and ask questions and share news without the crap?
>
> > So once again I ask has anyone seen the Recursive Modulus method of
> > factoring?
>
> And once again, Euler, 1732. And yes, you find that in math books. In my
> particular case, it was a nice homework exercise we got in number theory
> that was following a five minute tutorial on the black board. As said, a
> lecture on algebra would suffice. It is probably somewhere on the
> internet, but I really don't bother why I should do your homework.

This is why I think you are bullshitting me.  I see Euler and his
square method but not recursive modulus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler%27s_factorization_method
 You say you have seen it and had a class on it.  Well good. You also
say you don't know where it is. But still want to say you know where
it is.
I know Euler has factoring. Hell they were transcribing his works long
after he was dead he was so good.Hell I looked at everything I could
before I first posted in this thread.

 At least you are trying but I am not asking for theory.  I'm not
asking for recommendations for a class to take just a simple reference
so it hardly qualifies as helping me with homework so get over it.
You haven't done all that.

 So you say Euler worked the recursive method.  I'll keep that in
mind. Maybe you are telling the truth.

 I would much rather be nice but I am getting rather thin skinned
after all the years dealing with you guys.  Don't expect me to play
nice if you all keep up the labels. I work very hard on this. I am
done taking comp.compression crap.


 Thanks

Ernst

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#908

FromThomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de>
Date2012-01-31 21:58 +0100
Message-ID<jg9kmb$f8n$1@news.belwue.de>
In reply to#901
On 31.01.2012 12:58, Ernst wrote:

>> And once again, Euler, 1732. And yes, you find that in math books. In my
>> particular case, it was a nice homework exercise we got in number theory
>> that was following a five minute tutorial on the black board. As said, a
>> lecture on algebra would suffice. It is probably somewhere on the
>> internet, but I really don't bother why I should do your homework.
>
> This is why I think you are bullshitting me.  I see Euler and his
> square method but not recursive modulus.

I said *books* and *library*. I'm certainly not spoon-feeding you, I 
pointed you out where to look, and you refused to look.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler%27s_factorization_method
>   You say you have seen it and had a class on it.  Well good. You also
> say you don't know where it is. But still want to say you know where
> it is.

But I did. Which part do you not understand? Book? Library? Algebra? 
Come on, a little bit of research would be absolutely sufficient.

> I know Euler has factoring. Hell they were transcribing his works long
> after he was dead he was so good.Hell I looked at everything I could
> before I first posted in this thread.

Apparently not very thoroughly. Just a hint: If it goes to mathematics, 
the internet is not a prime source of wisdom.

>   At least you are trying but I am not asking for theory.

But how on earth will you then understand anything if you're not willing 
make an investment of your time?

> I'm not
> asking for recommendations for a class to take just a simple reference
> so it hardly qualifies as helping me with homework so get over it.
> You haven't done all that.

But of course I did. Once again, I found several factoring methods in 
Donald Knuth's "Art of Programming", Volume 2. At least it is a starting 
point for further research if you want to look deeper. Yes, it is a 
*book*, and if you start from there, you'll find enough references to 
dig deeper if you want to.

>   So you say Euler worked the recursive method.  I'll keep that in
> mind. Maybe you are telling the truth.

*Sigh*.

>   I would much rather be nice but I am getting rather thin skinned
> after all the years dealing with you guys.  Don't expect me to play
> nice if you all keep up the labels. I work very hard on this. I am
> done taking comp.compression crap.

That also works for me, really. I believe the minimum one can expect to 
do before claiming a "super cool compression theory" is a) to make some 
minimal investment to see how it relates to other techniques, and b) 
implement it to verify that it works. I often see neither a) nor b) here.

Even though factorization is a powerful technique, though not 
necessarily by the ancient modulus method, I do not see how it can be 
applied to compression. That's ok, maybe it can in some cases I do not 
foresee. But at least you should then know what you're talking about, 
and this goes for both the terms *compression* and *factorization*, and 
once that is cleared, you should go into the "how" and "when" before 
only claiming the "that". "You should know" means that I can certainly 
give you pointers as I did, but I will, for sure, not do your homework.

So long,
	Thomas

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#903

Fromstan <smoore@exis.net>
Date2012-01-31 07:41 -0500
Message-ID<d54lv8-qaa.ln1@invalid.net>
In reply to#893
Ernst wrote:
> On Jan 30, 3:44 pm, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
>> Ernst wrote:

<snip>

>> You want to tackle a math problem but you don't want to learn anything
>> about math. Do you honestly expect to get far?
> How do you know what I have interest in? Freak !
>
> You don't know anything about me.

I know you spend time posting mathematical questions and claims and
that your understanding of the concepts is all but non existent. I
know you have asked for links to material routinely covered in the
first year or two of an accredited training program. Setting aside
mastering the material, simple exposure to training would have
rendered your questions unnecessary.

I also know that you have stated you are interested in factoring and
in trying to compress the million digit file. You have also, in your
own words, stated you don't want to approach the problem from a
traditional formal path - which results from training and using
established knowledge and techniques. 

> What is wrong with you people?

What makes you think anything is "wrong"?

> Please explain how you know what I want to learn or don't you seem to
> want to fight so here it is.

From your own words. You claimed to believe you invented recursive
modulus operations and you stated you were working out how to factor
things such as the million digit file. You asked for links to
information about modulus arithmetic and you were pointed to math
books.

> How do you know anything about me?

Your posts - to a newsgroup interested in compression.

You seem to misinterpret my intentions. I have no intention of
entering an intellectual contest with you. If I choose to I will check
out threads you post, otherwise you will simply vanish from my reader
either way there's no fight or contest. I didn't call you childish
names or attempt to convince you of anything. I asked a question.

I honestly don't understand your plan, or what part you expect this
newsgroup to play. You want to work on factoring - a profoundly
mathematical concept - yet you aren't interested reading math books. I
don't see how that offers any chance of success, hence my question. 

I also don't see how this group can be of any help. The majority of
people here have some training and tend to approach mathematical tasks
using established ideas. You claim to want to do something different
and I can't imagine how posting here is of value, it seems very much
like going to a major medical conference of practicing doctors and
trying to discuss voodoo. How could that work?

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#911

FromErnst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net>
Date2012-01-31 15:27 -0800
Message-ID<13d55314-3ce4-47ba-af24-bb1242f922bc@n7g2000pbd.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#903
On Jan 31, 4:41 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
> Ernst wrote:
> > On Jan 30, 3:44 pm, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
> >> Ernst wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >> You want to tackle a math problem but you don't want to learn anything
> >> about math. Do you honestly expect to get far?
> > How do you know what I have interest in? Freak !
>
> > You don't know anything about me.
>
> I know you spend time posting mathematical questions and claims and
> that your understanding of the concepts is all but non existent. I
> know you have asked for links to material routinely covered in the
> first year or two of an accredited training program. Setting aside
> mastering the material, simple exposure to training would have
> rendered your questions unnecessary.
>
> I also know that you have stated you are interested in factoring and
> in trying to compress the million digit file. You have also, in your
> own words, stated you don't want to approach the problem from a
> traditional formal path - which results from training and using
> established knowledge and techniques.
>
> > What is wrong with you people?
>
> What makes you think anything is "wrong"?
>
> > Please explain how you know what I want to learn or don't you seem to
> > want to fight so here it is.
>
> From your own words. You claimed to believe you invented recursive
> modulus operations and you stated you were working out how to factor
> things such as the million digit file. You asked for links to
> information about modulus arithmetic and you were pointed to math
> books.

 I hope I did but I thought to ask if that is what you are talking
about.

Say are you assholes lover?  Then why worry about his ass?



>
> > How do you know anything about me?
>
> Your posts - to a newsgroup interested in compression.
>
> You seem to misinterpret my intentions. I have no intention of
> entering an intellectual contest with you. If I choose to I will check
> out threads you post, otherwise you will simply vanish from my reader
> either way there's no fight or contest. I didn't call you childish
> names or attempt to convince you of anything. I asked a question.

I hope I discovered a new method.  That would be really cool.

 No, you are putting yourself in the middle between me and Mr Asshole.
Get out of the way.  This is mostly about his actions.
 Also you are suggesting that only elite people can be here and say to
that fuck you.


As for what I am guilty of mind your own business and judge yourself.

>
> I honestly don't understand your plan, or what part you expect this
> newsgroup to play. You want to work on factoring - a profoundly
> mathematical concept - yet you aren't interested reading math books. I
> don't see how that offers any chance of success, hence my question.
>

Again how do you know a damn thing about me?  You don't get it do ya.

> I also don't see how this group can be of any help. The majority of
> people here have some training and tend to approach mathematical tasks
> using established ideas. You claim to want to do something different
> and I can't imagine how posting here is of value, it seems very much
> like going to a major medical conference of practising doctors and
> trying to discuss voodoo. How could that work?

Answer this, why is it your business why I do what I want?

This is a public forum accessible through google groups.

The days of Usenet being a pure research forum are long gone.

Look you are asking idiot questions you can answer for yourself.  You
don't need to get answers from me.

So stop worrying about me and go on with life.  I can handle Mr.
Authoritarian
 Asshole myself.
 Let's see if he like being labelled for a few years or maybe life.
He can dish it out but can he take it.
 I am not going anywhere so get over it.  I have as much right to use
this group and anyone does.  I don't have to get anyone's approval.

That goes for you all.. Play nice and I will play nice call me names
and get fucked.

You guys do it to me so enjoy the taste of me.

Ernst

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#912

FromErnst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net>
Date2012-01-31 16:06 -0800
Message-ID<eab25158-45b5-4ebc-aa29-853f3026481a@4g2000pbz.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#911

 I come here because this is a public forum about data compression.

That anyone likes or doesn't like it or me or any class of person in
not relevant.

 I know that Usenet moving from a private network to a public network
ruined things for a lot of people.

However, this is what it is now. A place for people to come and talk
about data compression.
 There are no pre-qualifications to use this public forum.

 I will be ready to defend myself here but i am not going.

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#918

Fromstan <smoore@exis.net>
Date2012-02-01 07:47 -0500
Message-ID<nronv8-3be.ln1@invalid.net>
In reply to#912
Ernst wrote:

> That anyone likes or doesn't like it or me or any class of person in
> not relevant.

You take things way to personal and that's not helpful in a public forum.

>  I know that Usenet moving from a private network to a public network
> ruined things for a lot of people.

Usenet was never private, anyone who could get on the net could jump
in. The other constant is that bad behavior has existed from the
beginning. It's why newsreaders have twit filters.

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#923

FromErnst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net>
Date2012-02-01 09:38 -0800
Message-ID<1f8eae51-143f-481d-8078-84e1f2ae75fd@b10g2000pbd.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#918
On Feb 1, 4:47 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
> Ernst wrote:
> > That anyone likes or doesn't like it or me or any class of person in
> > not relevant.
>
> You take things way to personal and that's not helpful in a public forum.


I have had enough is what is real here.

I have come here many years and it is always this Thought Nazi game
shit.

So let it play out.
 You guys made this game and I am playing it my way.

If you guys do not want this outcome you need to code for a better
codec. That is all.  This forum's codec includes offending people and
name calling plus a lot of elitism.
 So now you say that when the one who is singled out and made fun of
hets mad that is bad.. Ha-ha.

Just because a man has an education that doesn't mean he isn't an
asshole.

> >  I know that Usenet moving from a private network to a public network
> > ruined things for a lot of people.
>
> Usenet was never private, anyone who could get on the net could jump
> in. The other constant is that bad behavior has existed from the
> beginning. It's why newsreaders have twit filters.

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#944

From"George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net>
Date2012-02-02 08:10 -0500
Message-ID<DVvWq.5344$9j5.3454@newsfe09.iad>
In reply to#923
"Ernst" <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 
news:1f8eae51-143f-481d-8078-84e1f2ae75fd@b10g2000pbd.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 1, 4:47 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
>> Ernst wrote:
>> > That anyone likes or doesn't like it or me or any class of person in
>> > not relevant.
>>
>> You take things way to personal and that's not helpful in a public forum.
>
>
> I have had enough is what is real here.
>
> I have come here many years and it is always this Thought Nazi game
> shit.
>
> So let it play out.
> You guys made this game and I am playing it my way.
>
> If you guys do not want this outcome you need to code for a better
> codec. That is all.  This forum's codec includes offending people and
> name calling plus a lot of elitism.
> So now you say that when the one who is singled out and made fun of
> hets mad that is bad.. Ha-ha.

    Me, I'm a annoying jackass in many ways, but the important difference is 
that I am a HELPFUL JACKASS (if it amuses me).
    It's all well and good to have jackassery fun, but failing to be helpful 
when engaging in jackassery also tends to reduce your potential circles of 
helpful friends.

    As always folks, keep up the hilarity.
    This group almost never fails to yield at least one belly-laugh for me 
each week.

    Math is painful if it is reduced to pure numerical drudgery, however, 
giving up completely when meeting a mistake is the absolute last way to ever 
gain success or happiness. Be brilliant and cheerful, try not to linger in 
dead end functions if you can (unless they are really amusing) and the key 
to removing losers from winners is the recognition that the losers always 
give up when they fail a few times. The winners always have disturbing 
levels of persistence and optimism (which often makes up for them not being 
too clever).

    The key thing to remember is that painful memories last the longest.
    Helpful jackassery puts a little mental pushpin in the brains of folks 
to avoid obvious goofs.

    You don't have to be smart to be rich, you just have to persist in doing 
something that other people are willing to pay good money for again & again. 
Now STAYING RICH, well, that requires a brain of greater intellect. It also 
requires the knowledge that just because people like what you do for them, 
does not mean that THEY ACTUALLY LIKE YOU. So don't dump your emotional 
investment too deeply into folks that won't return your compassions because 
they are politely exploiting you. By the way, strangers will genuinely like 
you very much and often fall in love with you just because you can do 
amazing things that they themselves are far too busy or lazy to do, but that 
is not a guarantee that everyone will like or love you because of your 
skills.

    And for God's sake, get out and meet real live people in locations you 
know are safe (preferably sometimes unfamiliar), start conversations, learn 
to know people. If you piss away your precious years of your lives slaving 
away at a computer in a room, you're going to hate yourself when you're old 
and weak. You cannot meet nice people if you're just masturbating furiously 
by yourself all the time. Find a club and masturbate with strangers. You 
won't always meet nice people, but you will meet new people.

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#928

FromErnst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net>
Date2012-02-01 20:22 -0800
Message-ID<9acc2aec-582c-4f26-9b9d-59102c86136c@q8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#918
On Feb 1, 4:47 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
> Ernst wrote:
> > That anyone likes or doesn't like it or me or any class of person in
> > not relevant.
>
> You take things way to personal and that's not helpful in a public forum.
>
> >  I know that Usenet moving from a private network to a public network
> > ruined things for a lot of people.
>
> Usenet was never private, anyone who could get on the net could jump
> in. The other constant is that bad behavior has existed from the
> beginning. It's why newsreaders have twit filters.

Stan if you pick and choose what you answer you look to me like a
pacing cat.

Who are you, what do you do..  You have to get human friend or do
something else.
 You can't say you are against fighting while you pick a fight.

 I am a welder/mechanic.

Ernst

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#938

Fromstan <smoore@exis.net>
Date2012-02-02 06:31 -0500
Message-ID<vo8qv8-34i.ln1@invalid.net>
In reply to#928
Ernst wrote:
> On Feb 1, 4:47 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:

> Stan if you pick and choose what you answer you look to me like a
> pacing cat.

That's how usenet works. In fact that's how life works. You choose to
respond or not and how to respond.

> Who are you, what do you do..  You have to get human friend or do
> something else.
>  You can't say you are against fighting while you pick a fight.

I really don't have to do anything. As I stated before I'm not picking
a fight and I won't get dragged into one - I have better things to
do. My personal life is in no way relevant, important, or interesting
given the context of compression. 

This is off topic and I'll not respond further along this line, but
feel free to have the last word.

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#955

FromErnst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net>
Date2012-02-02 14:15 -0800
Message-ID<5de4a284-cb09-432a-973f-8ce75386ec28@y5g2000pbk.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#938
On Feb 2, 3:31 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
> Ernst wrote:
> > On Feb 1, 4:47 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
> > Stan if you pick and choose what you answer you look to me like a
> > pacing cat.
>
> That's how usenet works. In fact that's how life works. You choose to
> respond or not and how to respond.
>
> > Who are you, what do you do..  You have to get human friend or do
> > something else.
> >  You can't say you are against fighting while you pick a fight.
>
> I really don't have to do anything. As I stated before I'm not picking
> a fight and I won't get dragged into one - I have better things to
> do. My personal life is in no way relevant, important, or interesting
> given the context of compression.
>
> This is off topic and I'll not respond further along this line, but
> feel free to have the last word.

Well you are backing away of stating you are a friend because you are
afraid you will be next.  It's human nature to cover you ass. But it
does tell me something about what kind of man you are.
 Just remember I am a friend of science not a peer.

Be well.

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#956

FromErnst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net>
Date2012-02-02 19:18 -0800
Message-ID<4e7cc658-ceec-496e-ad3b-f7b6a2553933@g4g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#938
On Feb 2, 3:31 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
> Ernst wrote:
> > On Feb 1, 4:47 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
> > Stan if you pick and choose what you answer you look to me like a
> > pacing cat.
>
> That's how usenet works. In fact that's how life works. You choose to
> respond or not and how to respond.
>
> > Who are you, what do you do..  You have to get human friend or do
> > something else.
> >  You can't say you are against fighting while you pick a fight.
>
> I really don't have to do anything. As I stated before I'm not picking
> a fight and I won't get dragged into one - I have better things to
> do. My personal life is in no way relevant, important, or interesting
> given the context of compression.
>
> This is off topic and I'll not respond further along this line, but
> feel free to have the last word.

Don't worry about it.  This is a rote action in 4 phases.
First phase is identify people that have information from those who
don't. Get them to post that or there is inference that they will not
be accepted.
 Phase Two is to convince someone they are unfit person to be hare and
hopefully get them to cave in because of insecurity.
 Phase Three is the entropy phase where the thread is slowly flooded
with counter measures so that the victim is so busy putting out theory
fires so he can be accepted that they fall to the entropy of the
slowly increasing chaos.  hence retching control from them especially
the Friend types for entertainment.  This is also know as Sport
Fucking and is generally a group activity.

So we have about 4weeks of this and then Sebastian or other will be
pacing like a dog with a bladder control problem for the sequel
"Return of the Kook."Part two.

 To everyone else I have the new 8-core here so I am busy with a new
toy.  i get to slave the quad core so I can command 12 cores.

You guys will flip at the speed of USB3.0 And AMD has a Beast of a
processor with 4 core mode that is even faster than advertised 8 core
speed..
 I can write up a review is that would help.

 So to everyone have fun with it.  Since the point of the entropy
phase requires a target I figure you can do it without me.

 I will check in for any news on a source for who discovered recursive
modulus which is what is left of this report of recursive modulus.  I
would like to determine the state of discovery if possible.



 Ernst

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#988

From"George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net>
Date2012-02-07 06:21 -0500
Message-ID<mN7Yq.9918$rV2.516@newsfe11.iad>
In reply to#956
"Ernst" <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 
news:4e7cc658-ceec-496e-ad3b-f7b6a2553933@g4g2000pbi.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 2, 3:31 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
>> Ernst wrote:
>> > On Feb 1, 4:47 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
>> > Stan if you pick and choose what you answer you look to me like a
>> > pacing cat.
>>
>> That's how usenet works. In fact that's how life works. You choose to
>> respond or not and how to respond.
>>
>> > Who are you, what do you do..  You have to get human friend or do
>> > something else.
>> >  You can't say you are against fighting while you pick a fight.
>>
>> I really don't have to do anything. As I stated before I'm not picking
>> a fight and I won't get dragged into one - I have better things to
>> do. My personal life is in no way relevant, important, or interesting
>> given the context of compression.
>>
>> This is off topic and I'll not respond further along this line, but
>> feel free to have the last word.
>
> Don't worry about it.  This is a rote action in 4 phases.
> First phase is identify people that have information from those who
> don't. Get them to post that or there is inference that they will not
> be accepted.
> Phase Two is to convince someone they are unfit person to be hare and
> hopefully get them to cave in because of insecurity.
> Phase Three is the entropy phase where the thread is slowly flooded
> with counter measures so that the victim is so busy putting out theory
> fires so he can be accepted that they fall to the entropy of the
> slowly increasing chaos.  hence retching control from them especially
> the Friend types for entertainment.  This is also know as Sport
> Fucking and is generally a group activity.
>
> So we have about 4weeks of this and then Sebastian or other will be
> pacing like a dog with a bladder control problem for the sequel
> "Return of the Kook."Part two.
>
> To everyone else I have the new 8-core here so I am busy with a new
> toy.  i get to slave the quad core so I can command 12 cores.
>
> You guys will flip at the speed of USB3.0 And AMD has a Beast of a
> processor with 4 core mode that is even faster than advertised 8 core
> speed..
> I can write up a review is that would help.
>
> So to everyone have fun with it.  Since the point of the entropy
> phase requires a target I figure you can do it without me.
>
> I will check in for any news on a source for who discovered recursive
> modulus which is what is left of this report of recursive modulus.  I
> would like to determine the state of discovery if possible.
>
> Ernst

    I think you'd be more thrilled if you checked your work for accuracy of 
output (you know, having it actually factor numbers and obtaining actual 
primes).  The masturbatory glee of discovery & invention has to be tempered 
with the necessity of outputting a product that actually works to some 
degree.

    All inflations of confidence have to be equaled with a measure of 
competence in skill.

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#913

Fromstan <smoore@exis.net>
Date2012-01-31 19:06 -0500
Message-ID<t8cmv8-92c.ln1@invalid.net>
In reply to#911
Ernst wrote:

<snip>

> That goes for you all.. Play nice and I will play nice call me names
> and get fucked.

I haven't called you anything, even my children grew out of that long
ago. Your plan for advancing mathematics was perplexing but any idea
that your behavior will get anyone to help you is delusional.

> You guys do it to me so enjoy the taste of me.

You're funny.

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#914

FromErnst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net>
Date2012-01-31 19:15 -0800
Message-ID<4e9d4c90-c4d2-43cf-829c-6f07f766f868@pk8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#913
On Jan 31, 4:06 pm, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote:
> Ernst wrote:

 Your plan for advancing mathematics was perplexing

 Oh my bad.. I missed this point.  I don't think reporting a result
and asking for clarification of who discovered it is actually
advancing mathematics since it is true that modulus has been part of
many factoring efforts but it sure is a compact function and will
factor numbers of any size.
 As Robert points out, I think it was Robert, that what I have called
recursive modulus has similar time issues as other efforts.  I believe
there is a thing called polynomial time?  That non-quantum efforts
factoring of really large numbers such as RSA2048 take forever.  Geez
I hope I remembered that correctly.
 Well this RM takes forever when the number is really huge and may be
prime or product of two primes of similar size such as RSA's.
 I was lucky that Million Digit file finished in a few seconds.  It
was the only easy thing about Million Digit data set so far.
 Note: I don't know yet if the third factor which is almost 1 million
digits is prime or composite. I ran GMP's functions and ran the
recursive modulus until I was getting lock-ups due to CPU heat
issues.  It's getting old.  I have run that cpu for 2 years. So a new
cpu for that and a new machine on the way.
 I will take delivery of a new machine this week so I look forward to
running some factoring  efforts in the background.  What the heck..
If I can get within a short distance to one of the primes of RSA2048
this RM will find that factor.

 So what do you do?  Do you do data compression for your work?
 You say you have family that is good.. Savor the days because they
grow up so fast.
 I am a welder/mechanic myself and I have friends in low places.

Ernst

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