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Groups > comp.compression > #823 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2012-01-24 09:46 -0800 |
| Last post | 2012-02-02 07:46 -0500 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 119 — 13 participants |
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Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-24 09:46 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-01-24 13:03 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-24 14:52 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 15:25 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-24 16:49 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-01-24 18:55 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 19:23 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-24 21:08 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-24 20:50 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-25 00:09 -0600
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-24 23:51 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-25 02:28 -0600
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 02:54 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 03:08 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-24 23:58 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 00:08 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 02:40 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-25 05:25 -0600
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 05:20 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 12:12 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-01-25 13:32 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-25 14:33 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-25 17:43 -0600
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 19:00 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-01-26 07:17 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2012-02-08 06:06 -0500
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-02-08 07:30 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 15:19 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-26 02:20 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-01-26 07:25 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-26 18:52 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-01-27 09:25 +0100
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-27 12:01 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-27 12:12 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-27 16:13 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-01-28 11:22 +0100
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-28 13:59 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-01-30 09:49 +0100
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-01-30 08:51 -0500
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 08:51 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 08:38 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-01-30 18:44 -0500
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 15:49 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 16:27 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-01-31 08:46 +0100
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-31 03:58 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-01-31 21:58 +0100
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-01-31 07:41 -0500
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-31 15:27 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-31 16:06 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-01 07:47 -0500
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 09:38 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-02 08:10 -0500
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 20:22 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-02 06:31 -0500
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 14:15 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 19:18 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-07 06:21 -0500
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-01-31 19:06 -0500
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-31 19:15 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-01 08:24 -0500
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 09:54 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Jim Leonard <mobygamer@gmail.com> - 2012-02-01 11:00 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 21:19 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Jim Leonard <mobygamer@gmail.com> - 2012-02-02 07:15 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 20:25 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-02 07:07 -0500
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 19:35 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-07 06:33 -0500
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-31 18:51 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-02-01 03:51 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 09:34 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-01 08:53 -0500
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 20:31 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-02 07:18 -0500
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 16:47 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 17:00 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 18:55 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-01-31 08:10 -0500
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-01-31 11:31 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-02-02 11:11 +0100
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 14:05 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-08 13:35 -0500
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-02-02 11:24 +0100
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-02-02 12:52 +0100
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 14:06 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-01-30 07:09 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 07:45 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-01-30 09:42 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 10:19 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 12:05 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Jim Leonard <mobygamer@gmail.com> - 2012-01-30 14:40 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 15:11 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 15:43 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 14:52 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-01-31 04:31 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-31 14:21 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data pfraser <pete_fraser@comcast.net> - 2012-01-31 15:04 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-02-01 10:50 +0100
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 20:19 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2012-02-02 00:51 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-02-02 10:09 +0100
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2012-02-02 11:43 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-02-03 01:21 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-02-03 02:43 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-04 15:42 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 13:53 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-08 13:32 -0500
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-02-02 01:56 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 13:54 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 12:59 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 12:47 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 23:54 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-08 13:22 -0500
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-02-04 20:45 -0800
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-01-30 15:32 +0100
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-02 06:34 -0500
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-02 07:29 -0500
Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-02 07:46 -0500
Page 4 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 Next page →
| From | stan <smoore@exis.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-01 08:24 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <c1rnv8-pfe.ln1@invalid.net> |
| In reply to | #914 |
Ernst wrote: > On Jan 31, 4:06 pm, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote: >> Ernst wrote: > > Your plan for advancing mathematics was perplexing > > Oh my bad.. I missed this point. I don't think reporting a result > and asking for clarification of who discovered it is actually > advancing mathematics since it is true that modulus has been part of > many factoring efforts but it sure is a compact function and will > factor numbers of any size. The modulus is a very old idea and well plowed ground. Very smart and clever people have been interested in factoring for a long time and in modern times interest has grown to nearly a white hot fever because of cryptography. Factoring big numbers is an open problem and I certainly don't claim any ability to know the one true path to a possible solution. I do know congruences have been considered and better methods found. Today many better techniques are available and well understood, but the race to a factoring solution isn't over yet. I honestly don't see any useful connection between factoring and compression but there's many things I don't see. My confusion regarding your plan was how you intend to make progress in a well studied specialized field without looking at the existing knowledge and experience. Without at least awareness of past mistakes and dead ends it seems reasonable to predict you will waste much time repeating old, known mistakes. > So what do you do? Do you do data compression for your work? I'm semi-retired from the government. Let's just say I've been interested in compression for a long time. On a side note, I don't think you really understand that many of the top compression people have been known to pop in from time to time and some of the people you are sparring with are at the top of the food chain in the compression world. The knowledge and experience available here is an amazing resource. My grandma always told me to be careful of the bridges you burn; I think that's sound advice. > You say you have family that is good.. Savor the days because they > grow up so fast. My grandchildren are nearly grown.
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| From | Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-01 09:54 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <fdee3915-2986-4e5a-815d-4d9358929d47@q8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #919 |
On Feb 1, 5:24 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote: > Ernst wrote: > > On Jan 31, 4:06 pm, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote: > >> Ernst wrote: > > > Your plan for advancing mathematics was perplexing > > > Oh my bad.. I missed this point. I don't think reporting a result > > and asking for clarification of who discovered it is actually > > advancing mathematics since it is true that modulus has been part of > > many factoring efforts but it sure is a compact function and will > > factor numbers of any size. > > The modulus is a very old idea and well plowed ground. Very smart and > clever people have been interested in factoring for a long time and in > modern times interest has grown to nearly a white hot fever because of > cryptography. Factoring big numbers is an open problem and I certainly > don't claim any ability to know the one true path to a possible > solution. So there is you slight. Embellish and label . You don't see it do ya.. You guys have been drinking the same cool-aid for so long that you all lay the ground work for Thought Nazi-ism I came I shared and I hoped to socialize with people who work with data and encoding. My data set is Million Digit file not all files and so I am a bad person. Flawed by the standards of the Thought Nazis here. So from the start I am selected to be made the one who gets kicked by default and yes I have had enough. So where do we go from here. Remember I have posed a finding and am socializing and this is the level of social acceptance I get as one who is labelled and dehumanized by the acts of those who moderate here. You cannot point to even one post where I tell people their ideas are stupid and they are cranks. I am innocent are you? Mr. Asshole isn't innocent he is what I call in street terms a slut at it. So this is shocking I am sure but if a man cannot rise up and counter thought oppression he is a slave. Just imagine me as Mel Gibson in Braveheart... I'm going out and I see your post deserves a better reply more on topic so I will reply again later. Have a nice day. I do know congruences have been considered and better > methods found. Today many better techniques are available and well > understood, but the race to a factoring solution isn't over yet. > > I honestly don't see any useful connection between > factoring and compression but there's many things I don't see. > > My confusion regarding your plan was how you intend to make progress > in a well studied specialized field without looking at the existing > knowledge and experience. Without at least awareness of past mistakes > and dead ends it seems reasonable to predict you will waste much time > repeating old, known mistakes. > > > So what do you do? Do you do data compression for your work? > > I'm semi-retired from the government. Let's just say I've been > interested in compression for a long time. > > On a side note, I don't think you really understand that many of the > top compression people have been known to pop in from time to time and > some of the people you are sparring with are at the top of the food > chain in the compression world. The knowledge and experience available > here is an amazing resource. My grandma always told me to be careful > of the bridges you burn; I think that's sound advice. > > > You say you have family that is good.. Savor the days because they > > grow up so fast. > > My grandchildren are nearly grown.
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| From | Jim Leonard <mobygamer@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-01 11:00 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <f8471c14-ef96-4132-a3f9-4f7877645712@t15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #919 |
On Feb 1, 7:24 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote: > I honestly don't see any useful connection between > factoring and compression but there's many things I don't see. I think Ernst assumes that the factors of a very large number will take up less data space than the end result. Because the end result of a multiplication is always the same size (in bits) or *smaller* than the size (in bits) of the multiplicands, this can never work. For example: I have a number: 44253432, a 26-bit number (10101000110100000011111000) Its factors are 123, 456, and 789. 123 is a 7-bit number 456 is a 9-bit number 789 is a 10-bit number 7+9+10 = 26 bits It takes at least N bits to represent an N-bit value using the factorization method. Some rudimentary playing around with a calculator and 16-bit factors further illustrates this: Multiply the two largest 16-bit numbers and the end result is a 32-bit number: 65535*65535=4294836225 65535 = 00000000000000001111111111111111 4294836225 = 11111111111111100000000000000001 Multiply the two smallest 16-bit numbers and the end result is a 31- bit number: 32768*32768=1073741824 32768 = 00000000000000001000000000000000 1073741824 = 01000000000000000000000000000000 It is a shame Ernst did not verify this before starting his work.
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| From | Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-01 21:19 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <9711b4cf-0a98-4ca2-9407-556f59e78a95@v6g2000pba.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #925 |
On Feb 1, 11:00 am, Jim Leonard <mobyga...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Feb 1, 7:24 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote: > > > I honestly don't see any useful connection between > > factoring and compression but there's many things I don't see. > > I think Ernst assumes that the factors of a very large number will > take up less data space than the end result. Because the end result > of a multiplication is always the same size (in bits) or *smaller* > than the size (in bits) of the multiplicands, this can never work. > For example: > > I have a number: 44253432, a 26-bit number > (10101000110100000011111000) > Its factors are 123, 456, and 789. > 123 is a 7-bit number > 456 is a 9-bit number > 789 is a 10-bit number > 7+9+10 = 26 bits > > It takes at least N bits to represent an N-bit value using the > factorization method. Some rudimentary playing around with a > calculator and 16-bit factors further illustrates this: > > Multiply the two largest 16-bit numbers and the end result is a 32-bit > number: > 65535*65535=4294836225 > 65535 = 00000000000000001111111111111111 > 4294836225 = 11111111111111100000000000000001 > > Multiply the two smallest 16-bit numbers and the end result is a 31- > bit number: > 32768*32768=1073741824 > 32768 = 00000000000000001000000000000000 > 1073741824 = 01000000000000000000000000000000 > > It is a shame Ernst did not verify this before starting his work. No Jim that is not true. This thread is about reporting something I saw as a by-product of designing a hash code. You have to admit that if all the intermediate results are strung together as a binary string it offers a lot of data to work with and that was the attraction. However, I welcome the adjunct if you retract the singling out for ridicule. I am a Friend not a Peer. What do you say? Can you do it? Ernst
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| From | Jim Leonard <mobygamer@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-02 07:15 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <20384df3-bf39-4023-8924-f53619e2343e@n8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #931 |
On Feb 1, 11:19 pm, Ernst <Ernst_B...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > saw as a by-product of designing a hash code. You have to admit that > if all the intermediate results are strung together as a binary string > it offers a lot of data to work with and that was the attraction. Please define "a lot more data to work with" -- In what way? In what context? How and why do you find stringing factors together interesting? > What do you say? Can you do it? Not sure what you're asking, but you'd find more people interested in this line of thinking over at a cryptography group. However, you may not like the answers you get there.
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| From | Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-01 20:25 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <5ff4d333-547e-45f5-8280-5d85b5aaad47@uc9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #919 |
On Feb 1, 5:24 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote: > Ernst wrote: > > On Jan 31, 4:06 pm, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote: > >> Ernst wrote: > > > Your plan for advancing mathematics was perplexing > > > Oh my bad.. I missed this point. I don't think reporting a result > > and asking for clarification of who discovered it is actually > > advancing mathematics since it is true that modulus has been part of > > many factoring efforts but it sure is a compact function and will > > factor numbers of any size. > > The modulus is a very old idea and well plowed ground. Very smart and > clever people have been interested in factoring for a long time and in > modern times interest has grown to nearly a white hot fever because of > cryptography. Factoring big numbers is an open problem and I certainly > don't claim any ability to know the one true path to a possible > solution. I do know congruences have been considered and better > methods found. Today many better techniques are available and well > understood, but the race to a factoring solution isn't over yet. > > I honestly don't see any useful connection between > factoring and compression but there's many things I don't see. > > My confusion regarding your plan was how you intend to make progress > in a well studied specialized field without looking at the existing > knowledge and experience. Without at least awareness of past mistakes > and dead ends it seems reasonable to predict you will waste much time > repeating old, known mistakes. > > > So what do you do? Do you do data compression for your work? > > I'm semi-retired from the government. Let's just say I've been > interested in compression for a long time. > > On a side note, I don't think you really understand that many of the > top compression people have been known to pop in from time to time and > some of the people you are sparring with are at the top of the food > chain in the compression world. The knowledge and experience available > here is an amazing resource. My grandma always told me to be careful > of the bridges you burn; I think that's sound advice. > > > You say you have family that is good.. Savor the days because they > > grow up so fast. > > My grandchildren are nearly grown. So if you had to pick Professional Science or Common person you would say you are a "Smarted Okie on the bus?" I'd say so. Okay I agree that it shouldn't be a fight but Sebastian is not innocent and was warned last year. he seems to have had to push it ya- know.. maybe just wanted to trash any achievement an "okie" could make since I am not a Peer and he may want to keep it that way. I wondered if he father beat him or his mother had conditional love based on his achievements.. I wonder is all. So where do you and I stand? Are you just hoping for some action?
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| From | stan <smoore@exis.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-02 07:07 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <5taqv8-l8i.ln1@invalid.net> |
| In reply to | #929 |
Ernst wrote: > On Feb 1, 5:24 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote: >> On a side note, I don't think you really understand that many of the >> top compression people have been known to pop in from time to time and >> some of the people you are sparring with are at the top of the food >> chain in the compression world. The knowledge and experience available >> here is an amazing resource. My grandma always told me to be careful >> of the bridges you burn; I think that's sound advice. >> >> > You say you have family that is good.. Savor the days because they >> > grow up so fast. >> >> My grandchildren are nearly grown. > > So if you had to pick Professional Science or Common person you would > say you are a "Smarted Okie on the bus?" I'd say so. I don't agree with your classification scheme; I don't see the world that way. FWIW I'm a professional Engineer, but that doesn't really matter. I'm curious about the world around me and the questions, answers, and ideas come from everywhere. I don't get wrapped up in the source of an idea, I'm interested if it works. > So where do you and I stand? Are you just hoping for some action? I don't know you and I think your ideas are flawed in that they fall into well known traps. I've seen many people come and complain that their ideas are not respected. The reality is that not every idea is created equal. If I were to hang out with a bunch of welders and I tried to explain that welding was really just gluing two pieces of metal together, my idea wouldn't be treated as equally valid as the idea that you actually result in a single piece of metal instead of two pieces being held together by some substance. Some ideas are provably wrong. In welding there are a lot of variables, factors, and operations involved and the situation is very complex. In math things are considerably different. You start with a number of things (eg. numbers) and a finite number of well defined operations that can be performed and the universe is much more limited. These constraints or limits allow one to know everything about some things. Unless you create a new number or add a new operation you can prove results. I'm not saying math isn't complex, I'm saying we know pretty well where those dark areas are and we also know where the well lit areas are too. People who post claims that they have found an exception to the proven rules must demonstrate their exception and the Professionals will then take the new information into account and gladly give credit to the finder, regardless of race, sex, creed, training or shoe size. On the other hand people who show up and make claims that they have found an exception but refuse to talk about it will be called time wasting cons. People who claims the rules are wrong or incomplete without some real good reasons why the world should adopt new rules will be called other names. People who are unaware of the rules and claim the rules don't apply or don't matter will be treated about the same as a guy who walks into a welders meeting and claims he can weld stainless steel with a match and a paperclip. It's the merit of the ideas not the person that matters.
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| From | Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-02 19:35 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <ea483d61-fd8f-4ac7-80fc-9eac9b34f2f5@i10g2000pbl.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #940 |
On Feb 2, 4:07 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote: > Ernst wrote: > > On Feb 1, 5:24 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote: > >> On a side note, I don't think you really understand that many of the > >> top compression people have been known to pop in from time to time and > >> some of the people you are sparring with are at the top of the food > >> chain in the compression world. The knowledge and experience available > >> here is an amazing resource. My grandma always told me to be careful > >> of the bridges you burn; I think that's sound advice. > > >> > You say you have family that is good.. Savor the days because they > >> > grow up so fast. > > >> My grandchildren are nearly grown. > > > So if you had to pick Professional Science or Common person you would > > say you are a "Smarted Okie on the bus?" I'd say so. > > I don't agree with your classification scheme; I don't see the world > that way. FWIW I'm a professional Engineer, but that doesn't really > matter. I'm curious about the world around me and the questions, > answers, and ideas come from everywhere. I don't get wrapped up in the > source of an idea, I'm interested if it works. > > > So where do you and I stand? Are you just hoping for some action? > > I don't know you and I think your ideas are flawed in that they fall > into well known traps. I've seen many people come and complain that > their ideas are not respected. The reality is that not every idea is > created equal. > > If I were to hang out with a bunch of welders and I tried to explain > that welding was really just gluing two pieces of metal together, my > idea wouldn't be treated as equally valid as the idea that you > actually result in a single piece of metal instead of two pieces being > held together by some substance. Some ideas are provably wrong. > > In welding there are a lot of variables, factors, and operations > involved and the situation is very complex. In math things are > considerably different. You start with a number of things > (eg. numbers) and a finite number of well defined operations that can > be performed and the universe is much more limited. These constraints > or limits allow one to know everything about some things. Unless you > create a new number or add a new operation you can prove results. > > I'm not saying math isn't complex, I'm saying we know pretty well > where those dark areas are and we also know where the well lit areas > are too. People who post claims that they have found an exception to > the proven rules must demonstrate their exception and the > Professionals will then take the new information into account and > gladly give credit to the finder, regardless of race, sex, creed, > training or shoe size. > > On the other hand people who show up and make claims that they have > found an exception but refuse to talk about it will be called time > wasting cons. People who claims the rules are wrong or incomplete > without some real good reasons why the world should adopt new rules > will be called other names. People who are unaware of the rules and > claim the rules don't apply or don't matter will be treated about the > same as a guy who walks into a welders meeting and claims he can weld > stainless steel with a match and a paperclip. > > It's the merit of the ideas not the person that matters. At least this issue will be kept alive for another year at least. I half enjoy reading about the rational. In the end it is all data and as data it has value. Oh I mentioned I got an 8-core? That is a nice upgrade. I got those analog meters for air flow and the cool blue light in the tower. I love it when I upgrade. This is the best one yet.. I wonder how many cores they can get on a chip. I wonder if 16 cores is next.
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| From | "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-07 06:33 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <7Z7Yq.11377$236.8818@newsfe03.iad> |
| In reply to | #957 |
"Ernst" <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:ea483d61-fd8f-4ac7-80fc-9eac9b34f2f5@i10g2000pbl.googlegroups.com...
>
> At least this issue will be kept alive for another year at least. I
> half enjoy reading about the rational.
>
> In the end it is all data and as data it has value.
>
> Oh I mentioned I got an 8-core? That is a nice upgrade. I got those
> analog meters for air flow and the cool blue light in the tower.
> I love it when I upgrade. This is the best one yet..
> I wonder how many cores they can get on a chip. I wonder if 16 cores
> is next.
Oh, not that long. Your mathematical assumptions are not functioning
correctly in this current program form. Easily verified using WOLFRAM ALPHA
as a resource.
You remind me of the many folks who declare "EUREKA! I've discovered the
ultimate extremely simple data compression program. I point & mock you
pathetic fools now! What do you mean about an ESCAPE CHARACTER? I
understand my files don't decompress to match my original files, but that
doesn't matter, this is just a prototype."
And the belly laughs continue by the audience into the night while the
unwary mathematical comedian, ego inflated with a false sense of unlimited
future wealth, then mortgages their house to hire a soon-chuckling computer
programmer who stipulates repetitively in their written job contract,
"Programmer is to be paid prior to programming for the client and is not
responsible for mathematical & conceptual & intellectual failures of the
client and voids all legal claims to future profits of the computer program
code & compiled program code".
The louder you gloat, the longer I chuckle.
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| From | Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-01-31 18:51 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <a8e4d574-afc4-4e1d-bbad-a15cad1f5efe@3g2000pbd.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #913 |
On Jan 31, 4:06 pm, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote: > Ernst wrote: > > <snip> > > > That goes for you all.. Play nice and I will play nice call me names > > and get fucked. > > I haven't called you anything, even my children grew out of that long > ago. Your plan for advancing mathematics was perplexing but any idea > that your behavior will get anyone to help you is delusional. > > > You guys do it to me so enjoy the taste of me. > > You're funny. I hope to invent a method of compressing dense data. Before I saw that factoring I was trying to generate a hash that could select one string out of two million or so strings. Well I can be nice if you like.. Just don't ride my ass. Don't ;label me. Simple general respect. But from now on if I see it I'm going to jump on it. Gloves are off. Is there anything else? Do you like that recursive modulus? It's cool huh. You are trying to befriend me right? Ernst
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| From | Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-01 03:51 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <549a73be-5afd-4a20-a902-6e0bd2140667@b23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #915 |
On 1 Feb., 03:51, Ernst wrote: > I hope to invent a method of compressing dense data. What kind of "dense data" are you targeting and what does this have to do with factoring?
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| From | Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-01 09:34 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <58a6bd8d-25c1-45e6-9d9d-821dfe8d31c4@jn12g2000pbb.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #917 |
On Feb 1, 3:51 am, Sebastian <s.gesem...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 1 Feb., 03:51, Ernst wrote: > > > I hope to invent a method of compressing dense data. > > What kind of "dense data" are you targeting and what does this have to > do with factoring? Hey Mr. Asshole good day sir! You already know all dense data but fuck off man I have had enough of you for a long time. Years I come here and years you are a dick to me. So go be a thought Nazi some where else my good man. Ernst
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| From | stan <smoore@exis.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-01 08:53 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <hosnv8-7ie.ln1@invalid.net> |
| In reply to | #915 |
Ernst wrote: > On Jan 31, 4:06 pm, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote: >> Ernst wrote: >> > I hope to invent a method of compressing dense data. > Before I saw that factoring I was trying to generate a hash that could > select one string out of two million or so strings. I don't know what you mean by "dense data". I don't see how factors are meaningful. Lets say you find 2 or 3 or n factors. What are you going to do next? > Well I can be nice if you like.. Just don't ride my ass. Don't ;label > me. Simple general respect. But from now on if I see it I'm going to > jump on it. Gloves are off. Usenet will be uncomfortable or very fertile, as you prefer, with that chip on your shoulder. I tend to ignore childish behavior but when I occasionally get dragged in it's never satisfactory so my regressions don't last long. As they say, when you wrestle a pig you just get muddy and the pig likes it. I don't know anything about google's interface to news groups so I don't know if you are aware, but the vast majority of long time usenet people (and the ones with the most to offer) are using standalone readers. These readers can make people disappear with a keystroke. You can still post and you are visible to the public but you can be easily cut off from the most valuable information. In fact many people, myself included simply ignore any post from google groups by general principle. I'm offering this information as FWIW, do what you like. I only saw your recent posts because I recently changed my filter, but it's unlikely to stay open for long. The signal to noise ratio is nearly unbearable and I don't really have the time to weed through most of what comes through google. > Is there anything else? Do you like that recursive modulus? > It's cool huh. Actually I consider it just another tool, like division or multiplication. > You are trying to befriend me right? I was trying to engage in an adult, civilized conversation - I simply asked a couple of questions.
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| From | Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-01 20:31 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <fbd934f1-f494-402a-a63c-09d1c704b9fc@n8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #920 |
On Feb 1, 5:53 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote: > Ernst wrote: > > On Jan 31, 4:06 pm, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote: > >> Ernst wrote: > > > I hope to invent a method of compressing dense data. > > Before I saw that factoring I was trying to generate a hash that could > > select one string out of two million or so strings. > > I don't know what you mean by "dense data". I don't see how factors > are meaningful. Lets say you find 2 or 3 or n factors. What are you > going to do next? > > > Well I can be nice if you like.. Just don't ride my ass. Don't ;label > > me. Simple general respect. But from now on if I see it I'm going to > > jump on it. Gloves are off. > > Usenet will be uncomfortable or very fertile, as you prefer, with that > chip on your shoulder. I tend to ignore childish behavior but when I > occasionally get dragged in it's never satisfactory so my regressions > don't last long. As they say, when you wrestle a pig you just get > muddy and the pig likes it. > > I don't know anything about google's interface to news groups so I > don't know if you are aware, but the vast majority of long time usenet > people (and the ones with the most to offer) are using standalone > readers. These readers can make people disappear with a keystroke. You > can still post and you are visible to the public but you can be easily > cut off from the most valuable information. In fact many people, > myself included simply ignore any post from google groups by general > principle. I'm offering this information as FWIW, do what you like. > > I only saw your recent posts because I recently changed my filter, but > it's unlikely to stay open for long. The signal to noise ratio is > nearly unbearable and I don't really have the time to weed through > most of what comes through google. > > > Is there anything else? Do you like that recursive modulus? > > It's cool huh. > > Actually I consider it just another tool, like division or > multiplication. > > > You are trying to befriend me right? > > I was trying to engage in an adult, civilized conversation - I simply > asked a couple of questions. I can't deal with the volume of your input so no disrespect I'm simply tired. The quad-core came and it didn't boot so I am still struggling with the karma of late but it has shifted and I can feel it so all is well. I wish to reply to your last paragraph. You must hope to be a science professional because you seem you cannot bond as per your last paragraph. Please take time to consider the two classes I suggest as a though exercise. I am a friend not a peer and so judging and punishing me as a peer is wrong. I'll check back. I want you to know that you have many good points i can reply to however until we build a bridge as friends we have no option other than war. I hope you have good luck with the science community. They can be assholes. Ernst.
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| From | stan <smoore@exis.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-02 07:18 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ihbqv8-l8i.ln1@invalid.net> |
| In reply to | #930 |
Ernst wrote: > I am a friend not a peer and so judging and punishing me as a peer is > wrong. In my experience ideas and behavior draw responses. Some with thin skin make it personal and from there it devolves. > I hope you have good luck with the science community. They can be > assholes. I tend to look at generalizations with caution, but it's certainly not rare to find a geek with impaired social skills. Of course I've met people who couldn't add, subtract, or count change who weren't exactly peaches either.
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| From | Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-01-30 16:47 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <ef0ac939-2719-4e6f-925e-efa8c7c57dbf@ov1g2000pbb.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #891 |
On Jan 30, 3:44 pm, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote: > Ernst wrote: > >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_arithmetic > > >> lists some of them. > > > Silly Man, a link to the Recursive Modulus method is what I am asking > > for. I'd like to read more about this discovery I made. I have no luck > > so far locating it with my research. > > You've been told that the references are in math books, but you have > no interest in reading math books. What you are calling recursive > modulus is not new - you certainly didn't discover it, but I doubt you > will find many current references in the wild about current usage > because it isn't used because their are many better techniques. > > You want to tackle a math problem but you don't want to learn anything > about math. Do you honestly expect to get far? Stan give me an exact reference. That is all I am asking. Theory is not what I want. I don't see any reference to this method. Are you saying on page such and such it is there or are you saying that in theory it is covered. I have done my best to find some reference to Recursive Modulus and I have not found it. That Sebastian says read a book is his way of messing with people. Pulling rank so to speak. It;'s an old fuck dude. So why not give me an exact reference and I will make the effort to find the tome. That is what I am asking. You guys are saying that is old news so why not help me out?
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| From | Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-01-30 17:00 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <96d0488b-938a-4501-9ded-6bc41e0f0358@vh10g2000pbc.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #897 |
Oh and one more thing.. I am not trying to solve a problem.. Prove a theory or jack.. I just want more information on the method I discovered. My search fizzled and I thought "hey those guys know a lot so ask them." I'm guessing sharing anything I discover here is a bad thing. Prove me wrong. And cut the "Kook" or "Crank" shit that is so old it stinks.
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| From | Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-01-30 18:55 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <df78750a-1518-4c62-97fe-c4a92bd53353@kg1g2000pbb.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #898 |
I have been waiting. What I see is that it looked like a Beat up the Crank sport fight and then it isn't You guys are not leading edge and your leaders are not top rated. This forum will advance if it embraces everyone and stops the weird control stuuf and kick the crack shit. So any one what name is the book I should look at least? That the Recursive method is in. What more can I do? Ernst.
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| From | stan <smoore@exis.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-01-31 08:10 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <bq5lv8-ada.ln1@invalid.net> |
| In reply to | #897 |
Ernst wrote: > On Jan 30, 3:44 pm, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote: <snip> > Stan give me an exact reference. > > That is all I am asking. Theory is not what I want. I don't see any > reference to this method. > Are you saying on page such and such it is there or are you saying > that in theory it is covered. Your terminology here is skewed. Recursive modulus is existing math theory. Your usage seems to imply you question that fact and consider the references "theoretical". My personal books are probably too old to be in print so a page number won't really help you. Tom mentioned several ideas to which I added any Discrete math book. A visit to the library or google will turn up many available references. I believe Rosen has a pretty good Distrete Math book. As I mentioned, it was a homework assignment. The treatment in the text was minimal because the concept has been overcome by more effective and practical ideas. > I have done my best to find some reference to Recursive Modulus and I > have not found it. Where have you looked? > That Sebastian says read a book is his way of messing with people. > Pulling rank so to speak. It;'s an old fuck dude. I don't get it. Do you want Sebastian or others to read the books for you? Are you asking that others do the work and report back to you? > You guys are saying that is old news so why not help me out? Help was offered, you don't seem to like the answer.
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| From | Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-01-31 11:31 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <fc603caa-8890-401c-9890-7bf5f36ca846@x19g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #904 |
On Jan 31, 8:10 am, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote: > > On Jan 30, 3:44 pm, stan <smo...@exis.net> wrote: > > I have done my best to find some reference to Recursive Modulus and I > > have not found it. > Where have you looked? I don't know where he looked, but he did not try very hard. When I enter 'Recursive Modulus' into Google I get 774K hits with the very first entry being a math course from Cornell University. Also lately it seems like he asks questions but dismisses the answers if they are not what he wants to hear. This is of-course the type of behaviour associated with cranks and kooks. There also is the fact he claims to have a working factoring program, but still has not factored one of the unsolved RSA numbers to prove that his program works. Instead he started a claim (only once mind you, but it shows a mind set) that RSA numbers are not the products of two and only two prime numbers multiple together. To Ernst: Stop posting and just factor a RSA number to prove you are right in your claims. Do that and everyone will WANT to listen to your ideas no matter how off the beaten path they are.
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