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Re: Is multi-level function return possible?

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Andy Walker <news@cuboid.co.uk> writes:
>On 18/03/14 17:36, Anton Ertl wrote:
>> Keeping a feature may just be loyalty, but adding it back after it had
>> been removed says something about what the language designer thought
>> about the usefulness of the feature.
>
>	Well, it certainly implies that the designer [or the committee!]
>is admitting to a mistake.

In the case of the C branch of the Algol family, I very much doubt
that the designers see it that way.  B had a reduced feature set not
because the language designer did not like the features they removed,
but because B had to work on a very small machine.  They added some
features back in C, which ran on larger machines.  The designers of
C++, Java and C# are different persons than the designers of B and C,
so if they add a feature, why would they see it as "admitting to a
mistake"?

>[...]
>> "Parameters have a run-time cost": So has access to non-local
>> variables.
>
>	That depends on the machine and compiler.  The first compiler I
>used extensively [for Atlas Autocode] accessed variables at lexical
>depth N by offsetting from register N, so all variables were accessed
>at exactly the same cost.

So this compiler maintained a display in the registers.  The costs here are:

1) Accessing the variable in memory, whereas a parameter can be passed
in a register and accessed in a register.

2) Maintaining the display.  AFAIK it turned out that maintaining the
display is more costly in typical uses than the access cost it saves,
so displays fell out of favour.  This means that the run-time cost of
non-local variables is typically even more costly on this
implementation than one an implementation going using static link
chains.

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at
http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/
[We do forget that Ritchie's C compiler ran in 12K bytes of RAM,
two passes plus assembler, and generated quite respectable code
for the PDP-11. -John]

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Is multi-level function return possible? noitalmost <noitalmost@cox.net> - 2014-03-10 15:46 -0400
  Re: Is multi-level function return possible? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-03-11 05:20 +0000
  Re: Is multi-level function return possible? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-03-11 13:04 +0000
    Re: Is multi-level function return possible? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-03-11 22:15 +0000
      Re: Is multi-level function return possible? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-03-13 17:05 +0000
        Re: Is multi-level function return possible? Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-03-14 01:28 +0000
        Re: Is multi-level function return possible? Ivan Godard <ivan@ootbcomp.com> - 2014-03-13 18:32 -0700
          Re: Is multi-level function return possible? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-03-14 20:27 +0000
      Re: Is multi-level function return possible? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2014-03-14 02:39 -0400
        Re: Is multi-level function return possible? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-03-14 21:34 +0000
          Re: Is multi-level function return possible? Marco van de Voort <marcov@toad.stack.nl> - 2014-03-14 22:59 +0000
        Re: Is multi-level function return possible? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-03-16 17:19 +0000
          Re: Is multi-level function return possible? Marco van de Voort <marcov@toad.stack.nl> - 2014-03-16 18:39 +0000
          Re: Is multi-level function return possible? Andy Walker <news@cuboid.co.uk> - 2014-03-16 19:45 +0000
            Re: Is multi-level function return possible? Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-03-17 16:15 +0000
              Re: Is multi-level function return possible? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-03-18 17:36 +0000
                Re: Is multi-level function return possible? Andy Walker <news@cuboid.co.uk> - 2014-03-21 02:04 +0000
                Re: Is multi-level function return possible? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-03-21 02:50 +0000
                Re: design of PL/I, was Is multi-level function return possible? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-03-21 06:43 +0000
                Re: design of PL/I, was Is multi-level function return possible? noitalmost <noitalmost@cox.net> - 2014-03-26 14:16 -0400
                Re: exception catching in PL/I, was Is multi-level function return possible? "Robin Vowels" <robin51@dodo.com.au> - 2014-03-27 21:08 +1100
                Re: Is multi-level function return possible? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-03-24 17:06 +0000
                Re: Is multi-level function return possible? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-03-24 20:01 +0000
                Re: Is multi-level function return possible? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2014-03-26 04:00 -0400
                Re: Is multi-level function return possible? Hans-Peter Diettrich <DrDiettrich1@aol.com> - 2014-03-27 01:58 +0100
                Re: Is multi-level function return possible? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2014-04-07 14:48 -0400
                Re: Is multi-level function return possible? Andy Walker <news@cuboid.co.uk> - 2014-03-26 12:16 +0000
                Re: Is multi-level function return possible? Andy Walker <news@cuboid.co.uk> - 2014-03-26 17:34 +0000
                Re: history of C, was Is multi-level function return possible? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-03-27 00:05 +0000
      Re: Is multi-level function return possible? Bakul Shah <usenet@bitblocks.com> - 2014-03-15 10:28 -0700
    Re: Is multi-level function return possible? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2014-03-14 02:44 -0400
      Re: Is multi-level function return possible? Marco van de Voort <marcov@toad.stack.nl> - 2014-03-14 19:38 +0000
      Re: Is multi-level function return possible? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-03-14 21:36 +0000
      Re: Is multi-level function return possible? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-03-14 21:47 +0000
        Re: Is multi-level function return possible? Hans-Peter Diettrich <DrDiettrich1@aol.com> - 2014-03-15 13:34 +0100
      Re: Is multi-level function return possible? Ian Lance Taylor <ian@airs.com> - 2014-03-14 16:55 -0700
  Re: Is multi-level function return possible? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2014-03-11 13:56 -0400
    Re: Is multi-level function return possible? federation2005@netzero.com - 2014-03-26 17:39 -0700
      Re: catch and throw, was Is multi-level function return possible? rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) - 2014-03-27 04:23 +0000
        Re: catch and throw, was Is multi-level function return possible? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-03-27 05:44 +0000
        Re: catch and throw, was Is multi-level function return possible? Bakul Shah <usenet@bitblocks.com> - 2014-03-26 23:20 -0700
          Re: catch and throw, was Is multi-level function return possible? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-03-27 19:21 +0000
          Re: exception catching in PL/I "Robin Vowels" <robin51@dodo.com.au> - 2014-03-28 10:50 +1100
            Re: exception catching in PL/I Martin Ward <martin@gkc.org.uk> - 2014-04-16 14:32 +0100
          Re: catch and throw, was Is multi-level function return possible? mac <acolvin@efunct.com> - 2014-03-28 23:08 +0000
            Re: catch and throw, was Is multi-level function return possible? Ivan Godard <ivan@ootbcomp.com> - 2014-03-28 18:24 -0700
              Re: catch and throw, was Is multi-level function return possible? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-03-29 02:47 +0000
                Re: catch and throw, was Is multi-level function return possible? Ivan Godard <ivan@ootbcomp.com> - 2014-03-28 21:32 -0700
              Re: catch and throw, was Is multi-level function return possible? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-03-29 03:38 +0000
                Re: precise and imprecise, was catch and throw, was Is multi-level function return possible? Ivan Godard <ivan@ootbcomp.com> - 2014-03-28 22:12 -0700
            Re: catch and throw, was Is multi-level function return possible? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-03-29 02:07 +0000
              Re: catch and throw, was Is multi-level function return possible? Alan Bawden <alan@scooby-doo.csail.mit.edu> - 2014-03-29 02:44 -0400
            Re: PL/I exceptions, was catch and throw, was Is multi-level function return possible? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-03-29 02:40 +0000
              Re: PL/I exceptions "Robin Vowels" <robin51@dodo.com.au> - 2014-03-30 01:58 +1100
      Re: catch and throw, was Is multi-level function return possible? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2014-03-28 03:52 -0400
  Re: Is multi-level function return possible? Louis Krupp <lkrupp@pssw.com> - 2014-03-11 15:16 -0600
  Re: Is multi-level function return possible? noitalmost <noitalmost@cox.net> - 2014-03-15 12:21 -0400

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