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Groups > comp.arch > #3118 > unrolled thread

Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem!

Started byQuadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
First post2011-08-23 10:48 -0700
Last post2011-08-29 09:18 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 246 — 39 participants

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Contents

  Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-08-23 10:48 -0700
    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-23 16:24 -0700
      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Terje Mathisen <"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> - 2011-08-24 07:20 +0200
        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-23 23:22 -0700
    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-08-24 14:38 -0700
      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-08-25 17:42 -0700
        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-08-27 09:45 -0700
          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-08-27 18:03 -0700
    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Brett Davis <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-26 20:31 -0500
      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-26 20:08 -0700
      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-08-27 02:35 -0700
        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Brett Davis <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-27 15:27 -0500
          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-08-27 13:41 -0700
            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Brett Davis <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-27 17:34 -0500
              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-08-27 17:40 -0700
              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-08-27 17:50 -0700
              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-08-28 23:49 -0700
            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-27 22:40 -0700
      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Andy \"Krazy\" Glew" <andy@SPAM.comp-arch.net> - 2011-08-28 19:33 -0700
        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Terje Mathisen <"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> - 2011-08-29 13:56 +0200
          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Andy \"Krazy\" Glew" <andy@SPAM.comp-arch.net> - 2011-08-29 09:07 -0700
            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-08-29 17:56 +0100
              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Andy \"Krazy\" Glew" <andy@SPAM.comp-arch.net> - 2011-08-29 11:56 -0700
                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2011-08-29 16:12 -0400
                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-08-29 20:46 +0100
                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Kalle Olavi Niemitalo <kon@iki.fi> - 2011-08-30 07:48 +0300
                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-08-30 08:22 +0100
                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-31 11:34 -0700
                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Andy \"Krazy\" Glew" <andy@SPAM.comp-arch.net> - 2011-08-29 22:22 -0700
                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Andrew Reilly <areilly---@bigpond.net.au> - 2011-08-30 11:17 +0000
                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-08-30 12:35 +0100
                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-08-30 07:02 -0700
                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-08-30 15:18 +0100
                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-08-30 15:12 -0700
                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-08-31 08:30 +0100
                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-01 09:54 -0700
                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-01 10:09 -0700
                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-01 18:01 +0100
                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-01 12:25 -0700
                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! sidd <sidd@situ.com> - 2011-09-01 20:02 -0400
                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> - 2011-09-02 10:27 +0100
                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-02 11:33 +0100
                                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-02 08:09 -0700
                                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-02 08:12 -0700
                                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-02 15:50 +0100
                                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-02 08:49 -0700
                                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-02 17:00 +0100
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-02 15:55 -0700
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-03 18:06 -0700
                                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-02 07:58 -0700
                                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-02 15:56 +0100
                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-02 07:42 -0700
                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Andreas Eder <andreas_eder@gmx.net> - 2011-09-02 17:51 +0200
                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! sidd <sidd@situ.com> - 2011-08-31 12:11 -0400
                          Complex Number Representation nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-02 21:22 +0100
                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Andy \"Krazy\" Glew" <andy@SPAM.comp-arch.net> - 2011-08-30 07:08 -0700
                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Terje Mathisen <"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> - 2011-08-31 10:39 +0200
                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Andy \"Krazy\" Glew" <andy@SPAM.comp-arch.net> - 2011-08-31 08:00 -0700
                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Terje Mathisen <"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> - 2011-08-31 18:38 +0200
                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2011-08-31 13:18 -0400
                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Andy \"Krazy\" Glew" <andy@SPAM.comp-arch.net> - 2011-08-31 19:09 -0700
              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Brett Davis <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-30 00:19 -0500
                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Brett Davis <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-31 23:46 -0500
                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-31 09:56 -0700
                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Terje Mathisen <"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> - 2011-09-01 08:23 +0200
                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-31 14:02 -0700
                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-01 04:02 -0700
                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Terje Mathisen <"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> - 2011-09-01 19:42 +0200
                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-31 23:20 -0700
                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "James Van Buskirk" <not_valid@comcast.net> - 2011-09-12 15:53 -0600
                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-12 22:31 +0100
                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-12 22:56 +0100
                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2011-09-12 21:00 -0400
                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-13 10:10 +0100
                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Terje Mathisen <"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> - 2011-09-13 04:58 +0200
                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2011-09-01 07:25 -0400
                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> - 2011-09-01 10:37 -0700
                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-01 18:25 +0100
                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2011-09-01 19:56 +0100
                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-01 12:30 -0700
                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-01 12:38 -0700
                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2011-09-01 17:13 -0400
                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2011-09-01 14:48 -0700
                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-01 22:49 +0100
                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-01 18:08 -0500
                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2011-09-02 00:26 -0800
                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Andy \"Krazy\" Glew" <andy@SPAM.comp-arch.net> - 2011-09-02 05:06 -0700
                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-02 10:46 -0500
                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Stephen Fuld <SFuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2011-09-02 12:08 -0700
                                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2011-09-02 13:54 -0700
                                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2011-09-03 14:57 +0000
                                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-03 15:33 +0100
                                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-03 13:42 -0700
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-04 08:46 +1000
                                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2011-09-04 08:05 +0100
                                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-04 17:44 +1000
                                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2011-09-04 08:56 +0100
                                                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-04 18:52 +1000
                                                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-04 08:55 -0700
                                                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-04 16:46 +0100
                                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2011-09-04 13:21 +0000
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-04 14:03 +0100
                                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2011-09-04 14:15 -0400
                                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-04 18:52 +0100
                                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2011-09-04 15:00 -0400
                                                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-04 21:02 +0100
                                                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2011-09-04 19:22 -0400
                                                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-05 07:09 +0100
                                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-05 04:48 +1000
                                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2011-09-04 20:18 -0400
                                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-04 03:53 +1000
                                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2011-09-04 13:21 +0000
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-05 03:57 +1000
                                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-04 08:47 -0700
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-05 04:03 +1000
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2011-09-04 14:30 -0400
                                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-05 04:49 +1000
                                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-04 15:53 -0700
                                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-05 09:55 +1000
                                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2011-10-19 19:17 +0200
                                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2011-09-04 19:54 +0100
                                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-04 20:56 +0100
                                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2011-09-04 19:16 -0400
                                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-04 16:26 -0700
                                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Morten Reistad <first@last.name> - 2011-09-05 13:45 +0200
                                                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Bakul Shah <usenet@bitblocks.com> - 2011-09-05 12:09 -0700
                                                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-05 20:51 +0100
                                                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Morten Reistad <first@last.name> - 2011-09-06 10:57 +0200
                                                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-06 19:43 +1000
                                                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Morten Reistad <first@last.name> - 2011-09-06 10:55 +0200
                                                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2011-09-06 11:36 +0100
                                                      OT English Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! wclodius@lost-alamos.pet (William Clodius) - 2011-09-05 13:33 -0600
                                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2011-09-05 23:12 -0700
                                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2011-09-07 09:44 -0800
                                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-03 13:41 -0500
                                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2011-09-03 21:36 +0000
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-03 20:18 -0500
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2011-09-04 08:31 -0400
                                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-04 13:11 +0100
                                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2011-09-05 17:14 +0000
                                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-09-07 09:07 +0000
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2011-09-07 12:15 +0100
                                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2011-09-07 08:37 -0400
                                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2011-09-07 13:50 +0100
                                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2011-09-07 09:21 -0400
                                                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Bernd Felsche <berfel@innovative.iinet.net.au> - 2011-09-08 08:42 +0800
                                                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2011-09-08 14:10 +0000
                                                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-08 19:09 -0700
                                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2011-09-05 22:50 -0700
                                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2011-09-06 13:45 +0000
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2011-09-06 09:08 -0700
                                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2011-09-07 14:13 +0000
                                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2011-09-07 09:42 -0700
                                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Bernd Felsche <berfel@innovative.iinet.net.au> - 2011-09-08 09:05 +0800
                                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2011-09-08 14:10 +0000
                                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-08 04:49 +1000
                                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2011-09-08 14:09 +0000
                                                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-09 03:17 +1000
                                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-09-10 23:07 -0700
                                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2011-09-11 09:06 +0100
                                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-11 10:07 +0100
                                                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-11 06:48 -0700
                                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2011-09-11 08:26 -0400
                                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-11 13:00 +0100
                                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2011-09-11 07:36 -0700
                                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2011-10-19 19:15 +0200
                                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2011-10-19 14:45 -0700
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2011-10-19 17:13 -0800
                                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2011-10-20 13:38 +0000
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-27 09:01 +0000
                                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2011-09-02 20:41 -0400
                                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2011-09-03 06:58 +0100
                                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-03 07:19 +0100
                                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Bakul Shah <usenet@bitblocks.com> - 2011-09-02 21:54 -0700
                                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Stephen Fuld <SFuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2011-09-03 09:05 -0700
                                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-03 16:42 +0100
                                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2011-09-03 21:00 +0000
                                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Bakul Shah <usenet@bitblocks.com> - 2011-09-03 11:01 -0700
                                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-03 19:18 +0100
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Bakul Shah <usenet@bitblocks.com> - 2011-09-03 13:05 -0700
                                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-04 08:09 +0100
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2011-09-03 21:34 +0000
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2011-09-04 22:15 +0200
                                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-09-04 21:07 +0100
                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2011-09-02 20:21 -0400
                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> - 2011-09-06 09:32 -0700
                                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-09-07 09:09 +0000
                                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-07 07:17 -0700
                                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2011-09-07 16:00 +0100
                                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2011-09-07 16:40 +0100
                                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-07 09:57 -0700
                                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2011-09-07 09:39 -0700
                                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Morten Reistad <first@last.name> - 2011-09-07 20:47 +0200
                                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2011-09-08 14:09 +0000
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Stephen Fuld <SFuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2011-09-08 09:13 -0700
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Morten Reistad <first@last.name> - 2011-09-08 18:59 +0200
                                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2011-09-09 15:21 +0000
                                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-09 12:48 -0700
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-10 06:27 +1000
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Morten Reistad <first@last.name> - 2011-09-09 23:04 +0200
                                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Bernd Felsche <berfel@innovative.iinet.net.au> - 2011-09-08 08:57 +0800
                                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2011-09-08 14:10 +0000
                                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2011-09-08 07:50 -0800
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2011-09-08 12:07 -0400
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2011-09-08 12:10 -0400
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2011-09-08 17:38 +0100
                                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-09-09 03:43 +0000
                                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-08 12:21 -0500
                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2011-09-01 17:09 -0400
                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-02 08:59 +1000
                            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-09-07 09:07 +0000
                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-07 20:03 +1000
                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-09-08 16:55 +0000
                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-09 03:52 +1000
                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-01 15:57 +0000
                                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-10-02 05:51 +1100
                                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-07 11:31 +0000
                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Morten Reistad <first@last.name> - 2011-09-07 14:08 +0200
                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2011-09-07 14:18 +0100
                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2011-09-07 14:05 +0000
                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Morten Reistad <first@last.name> - 2011-09-07 20:54 +0200
                                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-08 05:27 +1000
                                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! timcaffrey@aol.com (Tim McCaffrey) - 2011-09-16 18:48 +0000
                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! sidd <sidd@situ.com> - 2011-09-07 18:53 -0400
                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-08 04:37 +1000
                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Terje Mathisen <"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> - 2011-09-08 10:19 +0200
                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! kenney@cix.compulink.co.uk - 2011-09-08 05:14 -0500
                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-09-11 12:58 -0700
                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2011-09-12 10:01 +0100
                                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-12 19:35 +1000
                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2011-09-12 09:25 -0700
                                      Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2011-09-12 13:27 -0400
                                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2011-09-12 10:41 -0700
                                        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2011-09-12 11:34 -0700
                                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-13 05:40 +1000
                                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2011-09-12 15:53 -0400
                                          Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-12 13:08 -0700
                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-08 04:14 +1000
                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-09-07 11:31 -0700
                                    Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-09-08 05:35 +1000
                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Bernd Felsche <berfel@innovative.iinet.net.au> - 2011-09-08 08:40 +0800
                              Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Terje Mathisen <"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> - 2011-09-07 20:25 +0200
                                Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-09-08 16:58 +0000
                                  Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-08 12:31 -0500
            Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Terje Mathisen <"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> - 2011-08-30 13:46 +0200
        Re: Solving the Floating-Point Goldilocks Problem! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-08-29 09:18 -0700

Page 11 of 13 — ← Prev page 1 … 9 10 [11] 12 13  Next page →


#3553

FromBernd Felsche <berfel@innovative.iinet.net.au>
Date2011-09-08 08:57 +0800
Message-ID<tgglj8x5ik.ln2@innovative.iinet.net.au>
In reply to#3524
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>Since Britain, the last bastion of a non-decimal currency, has long
>since decimalised, there would seem to be no reason to add such
>features to current languages.

>It's not as if, for example, anyone now keeps accounts in the currency
>of the Roman Republic...

>1 Quadrans = 3 Unciae
>1 Triens = 4 Unciae
>1 Quincunx = 5 Unciae
>1 Semis = 2 Quadriae = 6 Unciae
>1 As = 2 Semiae = 3 Trientes = 4 Quadriae = 12 Unciae
>1 Dupondius = 2 Asses = 4 Semiae = 6 Trientes = 8 Quadriae = 24 Unciae
>1 Sestertius = 5 Semiae = 10 Quadriae = 6 Quincunctiae = 30 Unciae
>1 Denarius = 4 Sestertiae = 5 Dupondiae

Base-120 arithmetic?

Keeping accurate track of rational fractions is still important.
Say you have a widget production line where one machine produces
exactly 100 knoblits a second. A conveyor feeds 1 in 3 to each of 3
machines which then insert the knoblits into wangats.  (Knoblit
insertion cannot be done any quicker using known technology.)

The question arises: how does one define the production flow on a
computer (actually in an application program) if it can't do fractions?
One would lose 1% of production in the planning. Or end up producing
99.99999999999999999 knoblits a second in total.

The result is as insane as trying to process text as numbers, which
all-too-many people do unwittingly on their computers. e.g.
<http://www.austbd.com.au/index.php/bosch-battery-s4-229.html>

Look at the "Short Code". The manufacturer's item code is 574.035

Laugh? Cry? I don't know which.
-- 
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ /  ASCII ribbon campaign | For every complex problem there is an
 X   against HTML mail     | answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
/ \  and postings          |  --HL Mencken

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#3570

Fromjmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date2011-09-08 14:10 +0000
Message-ID<PM0004AC6E950269B0@aca29b66.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to#3553
Bernd Felsche wrote:
> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>>Since Britain, the last bastion of a non-decimal currency, has long
>>since decimalised, there would seem to be no reason to add such
>>features to current languages.
>
>>It's not as if, for example, anyone now keeps accounts in the currency
>>of the Roman Republic...
>
>>1 Quadrans = 3 Unciae
>>1 Triens = 4 Unciae
>>1 Quincunx = 5 Unciae
>>1 Semis = 2 Quadriae = 6 Unciae
>>1 As = 2 Semiae = 3 Trientes = 4 Quadriae = 12 Unciae
>>1 Dupondius = 2 Asses = 4 Semiae = 6 Trientes = 8 Quadriae = 24 Unciae
>>1 Sestertius = 5 Semiae = 10 Quadriae = 6 Quincunctiae = 30 Unciae
>>1 Denarius = 4 Sestertiae = 5 Dupondiae
>
> Base-120 arithmetic?
>
> Keeping accurate track of rational fractions is still important.
> Say you have a widget production line where one machine produces
> exactly 100 knoblits a second. A conveyor feeds 1 in 3 to each of 3
> machines which then insert the knoblits into wangats.  (Knoblit
> insertion cannot be done any quicker using known technology.)
>
> The question arises: how does one define the production flow on a
> computer (actually in an application program) if it can't do fractions?
> One would lose 1% of production in the planning. Or end up producing
> 99.99999999999999999 knoblits a second in total.
>
> The result is as insane as trying to process text as numbers, which
> all-too-many people do unwittingly on their computers. e.g.
> <http://www.austbd.com.au/index.php/bosch-battery-s4-229.html>
>
> Look at the "Short Code". The manufacturer's item code is 574.035
>
> Laugh? Cry? I don't know which.

Worry a lot.

/BAH

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#3575

From"Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2011-09-08 07:50 -0800
Message-ID<1900.303T2315T4705560@kltpzyxm.invalid>
In reply to#3553
In article <tgglj8x5ik.ln2@innovative.iinet.net.au>,
berfel@innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) writes:

> The result is as insane as trying to process text as numbers, which
> all-too-many people do unwittingly on their computers. e.g.
> <http://www.austbd.com.au/index.php/bosch-battery-s4-229.html>
>
> Look at the "Short Code". The manufacturer's item code is 574.035
>
> Laugh? Cry? I don't know which.

Omigod.  Laugh or cry, this definitely calls for another beer.

Very early in my career I learned that one of the Seven Deadly Sins
of Design (well, there might be more) was to treat a field as numeric
when you had no business doing so.  My first awakening to the potential
horrors of such misuse was when someone came up with a part number like
574.035a - but there are even worse things in store for those fools who
rush in where prudent designers fear to tread.

Apocryphal story: someone defined the zip code field in a customer
file as a 5-digit numeric field.  This was a problem for customers
for whom they had no zip code.  The "solution" was to set the field
to 99999 in such cases.  Come the first mailout, a large number of
statements went to Ketchikan, Alaska.

(What makes this story apocryphal is that although Ketchikan has
several zip codes 999xx, 99999 itself is invalid.  This doesn't,
IMHO, invalidate what I consider to be another fundamental rule
of system design: magic values are Evil.  What if 99999 someday
does get assigned?)

Unfortunately, spreadsheets (which know better than you and have
no hesitation enforcing said judgment, however impassioned your
plea) make such situations almost inevitable these days.

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

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#3577

FromWalter Bushell <proto@panix.com>
Date2011-09-08 12:07 -0400
Message-ID<proto-90D0A9.12073708092011@news.panix.com>
In reply to#3575
In article <1900.303T2315T4705560@kltpzyxm.invalid>,
 "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

> (What makes this story apocryphal is that although Ketchikan has
> several zip codes 999xx, 99999 itself is invalid.  This doesn't,
> IMHO, invalidate what I consider to be another fundamental rule
> of system design: magic values are Evil.  What if 99999 someday
> does get assigned?)

Magic numbers *are* evil. I had a habit as a Fortran programmer of 
having the STOP statement labeled 99999 which terminated the run of the 
batch job in one location, because 9 in column 1 was EOB.

-- 
Ignorance is no protection against reality. -- Paul J Gans

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#3578

FromWalter Bushell <proto@panix.com>
Date2011-09-08 12:10 -0400
Message-ID<proto-7D8BF4.12100708092011@news.panix.com>
In reply to#3575
In article <1900.303T2315T4705560@kltpzyxm.invalid>,
 "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

> (What makes this story apocryphal is that although Ketchikan has
> several zip codes 999xx, 99999 itself is invalid.  This doesn't,
> IMHO, invalidate what I consider to be another fundamental rule
> of system design: magic values are Evil.  What if 99999 someday
> does get assigned?)

"Magic numbers are just a special case of in band signaling. "Captain 
Crunch" et. al. made a hobby of spoofing the phone system to get free 
calls, or was it just the joy of hacking.  Of course, the uncreative 
majority just used the hacks to get free calls.Anyway, we got the Woz 
out of it so probably worth it.

-- 
Ignorance is no protection against reality. -- Paul J Gans

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#3580

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2011-09-08 17:38 +0100
Message-ID<20110908173847.b4b408f5.steveo@eircom.net>
In reply to#3575
On 08 Sep 11 07:50:46 -0800
"Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

> (What makes this story apocryphal is that although Ketchikan has
> several zip codes 999xx, 99999 itself is invalid.  This doesn't,
> IMHO, invalidate what I consider to be another fundamental rule
> of system design: magic values are Evil.  What if 99999 someday
> does get assigned?)

	One of the test dates for Y2K work was 9/9/99 which had
apparently been used for "invalid date" in some systems.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN                                      | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#3592

FromSeebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net>
Date2011-09-09 03:43 +0000
Message-ID<slrnj6j244.20om.usenet-nospam@guild.seebs.net>
In reply to#3580
On 2011-09-08, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> 	One of the test dates for Y2K work was 9/9/99 which had
> apparently been used for "invalid date" in some systems.

I am told there existed a dialysis machine which used the entry of that
obviously-invalid date as the signal to do a self-cleaning cycle.

-s
-- 
Copyright 2011, all wrongs reversed.  Peter Seebach / usenet-nospam@seebs.net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!
I am not speaking for my employer, although they do rent some of my opinions.

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#3585

FromRobert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com>
Date2011-09-08 12:21 -0500
Message-ID<bsth6710v40a4pn4cudlbh77d4qrf6o0m3@4ax.com>
In reply to#3575
On 08 Sep 11 07:50:46 -0800, "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <tgglj8x5ik.ln2@innovative.iinet.net.au>,
>berfel@innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) writes:
>
>> The result is as insane as trying to process text as numbers, which
>> all-too-many people do unwittingly on their computers. e.g.
>> <http://www.austbd.com.au/index.php/bosch-battery-s4-229.html>
>>
>> Look at the "Short Code". The manufacturer's item code is 574.035
>>
>> Laugh? Cry? I don't know which.
>
>Omigod.  Laugh or cry, this definitely calls for another beer.
>
>Very early in my career I learned that one of the Seven Deadly Sins
>of Design (well, there might be more) was to treat a field as numeric
>when you had no business doing so.  My first awakening to the potential
>horrors of such misuse was when someone came up with a part number like
>574.035a - but there are even worse things in store for those fools who
>rush in where prudent designers fear to tread.
>
>Apocryphal story: someone defined the zip code field in a customer
>file as a 5-digit numeric field.  This was a problem for customers
>for whom they had no zip code.  The "solution" was to set the field
>to 99999 in such cases.  Come the first mailout, a large number of
>statements went to Ketchikan, Alaska.
>
>(What makes this story apocryphal is that although Ketchikan has
>several zip codes 999xx, 99999 itself is invalid.  This doesn't,
>IMHO, invalidate what I consider to be another fundamental rule
>of system design: magic values are Evil.  What if 99999 someday
>does get assigned?)


A sad historical note:

That sort of thing snuck(?) in as an expedience in the 80s, when the
USPS introduced the ZIP+4 (extended postal-code) system.

Many folks were storing ZIP codes in a five character field (although
not the ones with Canadian customers), and it was noticed that you
could store a *packed* ZIP+4 (nine digits, after all) code in the same
five bytes.  More than a few places ended up putting a union and
numeric tests on those fields to see what was there.  IOW, crap like:

...
  05 ZIP  PIC 9(5) USAGE DISPLAY.
  05 ZIP-PLUS-4 REDEFINES ZIP PIC 9(9) USAGE COMP-3.
...
  IF ZIP IS NUMERIC...
  ELSE IF ZIP-PLUS-4 IS NUMERIC...

Of course that *did* have the advantage that you could move SPACES (or
sometime LOW-VALUES or HIGH-VALUES) to the field, which would not be
NUMERIC in either format, so you could accurately represent the
invalid case.

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#3350

FromPeter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com>
Date2011-09-01 17:09 -0400
Message-ID<j3os9u$d9m$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#3337
On 9/1/2011 1:25 PM, nmm1@cam.ac.uk wrote:
> In article<1c679456-72d6-4231-9a6d-20f0c9060799@bl1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
> Tim Shoppa<shoppa@trailing-edge.com>  wrote:
>> On Sep 1, 7:25=A0am, Peter Flass<Peter_Fl...@Yahoo.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>> A lot of the Xerox stuff used "rational numbers", stored as an integer
>>> numerator and an integer denominator.
>>
>> Not sure what Xerox stuff this is. SDS/XDS, Alto, Star, or something I
>> never heard of :-). I know there was some academic overlap between
>> Interlisp/Smalltalk and the Star communities.
>>
>> I wonder if this was done for bignum or mathematica style stuff, or if
>> it was a different tack than fixed-point Cobol style math to approach
>> financial accounting.
>
> Look up "fixed slash" arithmetic - I don't know what Xerox did, but I
> mention that in my computer arithmetic course.  I have just added an
> equally brief reference to quaternions :-)
>
>      http://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/courses/Arithmetic/index.html
>
>> I know folks from across the pond could teach me a lot about how to do
>> math with twelfths and twentieths for pennies/shillings/pounds and I
>> can see this driving some interesting British computer
>> representations...
>
> Nah.  We weren't insane, and represented such numbers as integers,
> with appropriate conversion functions!  When I were a lad, we were
> required to do mental arithmetic involving currency, and I go back
> to the days of farthings.  That skill has disappeared, which has
> had the disadvantage that most people no longer have the 'feel' for
> numbers that used to be normal.
>

Interpress, at least.  XDS computers had a fairly standard float format 
(IIRC, don't have the details handy).  Maybe the Alto, did that have FP 
at all?

Kids these days can't even do arithmetic in their heads in dollars and 
cents! They can't make change without a cash register or calculator 
telling them how much.

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#3356

From"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
Date2011-09-02 08:59 +1000
Message-ID<9cah3eFl5lU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#3350
Peter Flass wrote
> nmm1@cam.ac.uk wrote
>> Tim Shoppa<shoppa@trailing-edge.com>  wrote
>>> Peter Flass<Peter_Fl...@Yahoo.com>  wrote

>>>> A lot of the Xerox stuff used "rational numbers", stored as an integer numerator and an integer denominator.

>>> Not sure what Xerox stuff this is. SDS/XDS, Alto, Star, or
>>> something I never heard of :-). I know there was some academic
>>> overlap between Interlisp/Smalltalk and the Star communities.

>>> I wonder if this was done for bignum or mathematica style stuff, or if it was a different tack than fixed-point 
>>> Cobol style math to
>>> approach financial accounting.

>> Look up "fixed slash" arithmetic - I don't know what Xerox did, but I
>> mention that in my computer arithmetic course.  I have just added an
>> equally brief reference to quaternions :-)

>>      http://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/courses/Arithmetic/index.html

>>> I know folks from across the pond could teach me a lot about how to do math with twelfths and twentieths for 
>>> pennies/shillings/pounds and I can see this driving some interesting British computer representations...

>> Nah.  We weren't insane, and represented such numbers as integers,
>> with appropriate conversion functions!  When I were a lad, we were
>> required to do mental arithmetic involving currency, and I go back
>> to the days of farthings.  That skill has disappeared, which has
>> had the disadvantage that most people no longer have the 'feel' for
>> numbers that used to be normal.

> Interpress, at least.  XDS computers had a fairly standard float
> format (IIRC, don't have the details handy).  Maybe the Alto, did
> that have FP at all?

> Kids these days can't even do arithmetic in their heads in dollars and
> cents! They can't make change without a cash register or calculator
> telling them how much.

Yes they can. The ones I buy my tomatoes at the market from can. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#3509

Fromblmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com>
Date2011-09-07 09:07 +0000
Message-ID<9coqi9F9ppU9@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#3356
In article <9cah3eFl5lU1@mid.individual.net>,
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter Flass wrote
> > nmm1@cam.ac.uk wrote
> >> Tim Shoppa<shoppa@trailing-edge.com>  wrote
> >>> Peter Flass<Peter_Fl...@Yahoo.com>  wrote
> 
> >>>> A lot of the Xerox stuff used "rational numbers", stored as an integer numerator and an integer denominator.
> 
> >>> Not sure what Xerox stuff this is. SDS/XDS, Alto, Star, or
> >>> something I never heard of :-). I know there was some academic
> >>> overlap between Interlisp/Smalltalk and the Star communities.
> 
> >>> I wonder if this was done for bignum or mathematica style stuff, or if it was a different tack than fixed-point 
> >>> Cobol style math to
> >>> approach financial accounting.
> 
> >> Look up "fixed slash" arithmetic - I don't know what Xerox did, but I
> >> mention that in my computer arithmetic course.  I have just added an
> >> equally brief reference to quaternions :-)
> 
> >>      http://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/courses/Arithmetic/index.html
> 
> >>> I know folks from across the pond could teach me a lot about how
> >>> to do math with twelfths and twentieths for
> >>> pennies/shillings/pounds and I can see this driving some
> >>> interesting British computer representations...
> 
> >> Nah.  We weren't insane, and represented such numbers as integers,
> >> with appropriate conversion functions!  When I were a lad, we were
> >> required to do mental arithmetic involving currency, and I go back
> >> to the days of farthings.  That skill has disappeared, which has
> >> had the disadvantage that most people no longer have the 'feel' for
> >> numbers that used to be normal.
> 
> > Interpress, at least.  XDS computers had a fairly standard float
> > format (IIRC, don't have the details handy).  Maybe the Alto, did
> > that have FP at all?
> 
> > Kids these days can't even do arithmetic in their heads in dollars and
> > cents! They can't make change without a cash register or calculator
> > telling them how much.
> 
> Yes they can. The ones I buy my tomatoes at the market from can. 

So apparently *some* of them can.  I guess you don't observe ones
that can't?  I do, sort of [*] ....  Could this be something that's
different in different countries?

[*] My favorite example is what happens when, asked to pay in a
retail establishment, I count out an amount of cash that will result
in my getting back a few largish bills rather than small bills and
change (e.g., $20.79 for a bill of $10.79).  Usually the checkout
clerk just enters the amount in the cash register, but every once
in a while he or she will look at me in puzzlement and say "this is
too much".  Sometimes my explanation ("but this way you give me back
a $10 bill") suffices.  Sometimes there's still this look of puzzlement,
but usually the clerk can be encouraged to just enter the amount, etc.

Then again, it occurs to me that some of the puzzled looks have come
from people old enough to have learned to do arithmetic without
mechanical/electronic assistance.  <shrug>

-- 
B. L. Massingill
ObDisclaimer:  I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#3514

From"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
Date2011-09-07 20:03 +1000
Message-ID<9cotrkFb1kU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#3509
blmblm@myrealbox.com wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Peter Flass wrote
>>> nmm1@cam.ac.uk wrote
>>>> Tim Shoppa<shoppa@trailing-edge.com>  wrote
>>>>> Peter Flass<Peter_Fl...@Yahoo.com>  wrote

>>>>>> A lot of the Xerox stuff used "rational numbers", stored
>>>>>> as an integer numerator and an integer denominator.

>>>>> Not sure what Xerox stuff this is. SDS/XDS, Alto, Star, or
>>>>> something I never heard of :-). I know there was some academic
>>>>> overlap between Interlisp/Smalltalk and the Star communities.

>>>>> I wonder if this was done for bignum or mathematica style stuff,
>>>>> or if it was a different tack than fixed-point Cobol style math to
>>>>> approach financial accounting.

>>>> Look up "fixed slash" arithmetic - I don't know what Xerox did,
>>>> but I mention that in my computer arithmetic course.  I have just
>>>> added an equally brief reference to quaternions :-)

>>>> http://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/courses/Arithmetic/index.html

>>>>> I know folks from across the pond could teach me a lot
>>>>> about how to do math with twelfths and twentieths for
>>>>> pennies/shillings/pounds and I can see this driving some
>>>>> interesting British computer representations...

>>>> Nah.  We weren't insane, and represented such numbers as integers,
>>>> with appropriate conversion functions!  When I were a lad, we were
>>>> required to do mental arithmetic involving currency, and I go back
>>>> to the days of farthings.  That skill has disappeared, which has
>>>> had the disadvantage that most people no longer have the 'feel' for
>>>> numbers that used to be normal.

>>> Interpress, at least.  XDS computers had a fairly standard float
>>> format (IIRC, don't have the details handy).  Maybe the Alto, did
>>> that have FP at all?

>>> Kids these days can't even do arithmetic in their heads in dollars
>>> and cents! They can't make change without a cash register or
>>> calculator telling them how much.

>> Yes they can. The ones I buy my tomatoes at the market from can.

> So apparently *some* of them can.  I guess you don't observe ones that can't?

I didnt say that. I was JUST commenting on your claim that none of them can.

> I do, sort of [*] ....

So do I.

> Could this be something that's different in different countries?

Nope.

> [*] My favorite example is what happens when, asked to pay in a
> retail establishment, I count out an amount of cash that will result
> in my getting back a few largish bills rather than small bills and
> change (e.g., $20.79 for a bill of $10.79).  Usually the checkout
> clerk just enters the amount in the cash register,

Cant say I have ever had one do that.

> but every once in a while he or she will look at
> me in puzzlement and say "this is too much".

Or that.

> Sometimes my explanation ("but this way you give me back a $10 bill") suffices.

Or that.

> Sometimes there's still this look of puzzlement, but usually
> the clerk can be encouraged to just enter the amount, etc.

Or that.

> Then again, it occurs to me that some of the puzzled looks
> have come from people old enough to have learned to do
> arithmetic without mechanical/electronic assistance.  <shrug>

Presumably some of them are just reacting to your rabid
blood shot eys and flecks of foam about the lips etc. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#3581

Fromblmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com>
Date2011-09-08 16:55 +0000
Message-ID<9csaclFg18U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#3514
In article <9cotrkFb1kU1@mid.individual.net>,
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> blmblm@myrealbox.com wrote
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> >> Peter Flass wrote
> >>> nmm1@cam.ac.uk wrote
> >>>> Tim Shoppa<shoppa@trailing-edge.com>  wrote
> >>>>> Peter Flass<Peter_Fl...@Yahoo.com>  wrote
> 
> >>>>>> A lot of the Xerox stuff used "rational numbers", stored
> >>>>>> as an integer numerator and an integer denominator.
> 
> >>>>> Not sure what Xerox stuff this is. SDS/XDS, Alto, Star, or
> >>>>> something I never heard of :-). I know there was some academic
> >>>>> overlap between Interlisp/Smalltalk and the Star communities.
> 
> >>>>> I wonder if this was done for bignum or mathematica style stuff,
> >>>>> or if it was a different tack than fixed-point Cobol style math to
> >>>>> approach financial accounting.
> 
> >>>> Look up "fixed slash" arithmetic - I don't know what Xerox did,
> >>>> but I mention that in my computer arithmetic course.  I have just
> >>>> added an equally brief reference to quaternions :-)
> 
> >>>> http://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/courses/Arithmetic/index.html
> 
> >>>>> I know folks from across the pond could teach me a lot
> >>>>> about how to do math with twelfths and twentieths for
> >>>>> pennies/shillings/pounds and I can see this driving some
> >>>>> interesting British computer representations...
> 
> >>>> Nah.  We weren't insane, and represented such numbers as integers,
> >>>> with appropriate conversion functions!  When I were a lad, we were
> >>>> required to do mental arithmetic involving currency, and I go back
> >>>> to the days of farthings.  That skill has disappeared, which has
> >>>> had the disadvantage that most people no longer have the 'feel' for
> >>>> numbers that used to be normal.
> 
> >>> Interpress, at least.  XDS computers had a fairly standard float
> >>> format (IIRC, don't have the details handy).  Maybe the Alto, did
> >>> that have FP at all?
> 
> >>> Kids these days can't even do arithmetic in their heads in dollars
> >>> and cents! They can't make change without a cash register or
> >>> calculator telling them how much.
> 
> >> Yes they can. The ones I buy my tomatoes at the market from can.
> 
> > So apparently *some* of them can.  I guess you don't observe ones
> > that can't?
> 
> I didnt say that. I was JUST commenting on your claim that none of
> them can.

Not my claim.  Check the attribution lines.

> > I do, sort of [*] ....
> 
> So do I.
> 
> > Could this be something that's different in different countries?
> 
> Nope.
> 
> > [*] My favorite example is what happens when, asked to pay in a
> > retail establishment, I count out an amount of cash that will result
> > in my getting back a few largish bills rather than small bills and
> > change (e.g., $20.79 for a bill of $10.79).  Usually the checkout
> > clerk just enters the amount in the cash register,
> 
> Cant say I have ever had one do that.
> 
> > but every once in a while he or she will look at
> > me in puzzlement and say "this is too much".
> 
> Or that.
> 
> > Sometimes my explanation ("but this way you give me back a $10
> > bill") suffices.
> 
> Or that.
> 
> > Sometimes there's still this look of puzzlement, but usually
> > the clerk can be encouraged to just enter the amount, etc.
> 
> Or that.

Do you ever pay with cash, and supply an amount that's intended
to reduce the number of bills/coins you receive as change?  
(Question intended to elicit information, not as some sort of
challenge.)

> > Then again, it occurs to me that some of the puzzled looks
> > have come from people old enough to have learned to do
> > arithmetic without mechanical/electronic assistance.  <shrug>
> 
> Presumably some of them are just reacting to your rabid
> blood shot eys and flecks of foam about the lips etc. 
> 

Charming description, but quite at odds with reality.

-- 
B. L. Massingill
ObDisclaimer:  I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#3587

From"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
Date2011-09-09 03:52 +1000
Message-ID<9csdmvFf06U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#3581
blmblm@myrealbox.com wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> blmblm@myrealbox.com wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Peter Flass wrote
>>>>> nmm1@cam.ac.uk wrote
>>>>>> Tim Shoppa<shoppa@trailing-edge.com>  wrote
>>>>>>> Peter Flass<Peter_Fl...@Yahoo.com>  wrote

>>>>>>>> A lot of the Xerox stuff used "rational numbers", stored
>>>>>>>> as an integer numerator and an integer denominator.

>>>>>>> Not sure what Xerox stuff this is. SDS/XDS, Alto, Star, or
>>>>>>> something I never heard of :-). I know there was some academic
>>>>>>> overlap between Interlisp/Smalltalk and the Star communities.

>>>>>>> I wonder if this was done for bignum or mathematica style stuff,
>>>>>>> or if it was a different tack than fixed-point Cobol style math
>>>>>>> to approach financial accounting.

>>>>>> Look up "fixed slash" arithmetic - I don't know what Xerox did,
>>>>>> but I mention that in my computer arithmetic course.  I have just
>>>>>> added an equally brief reference to quaternions :-)

>>>>>> http://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/courses/Arithmetic/index.html

>>>>>>> I know folks from across the pond could teach me a lot
>>>>>>> about how to do math with twelfths and twentieths for
>>>>>>> pennies/shillings/pounds and I can see this driving some
>>>>>>> interesting British computer representations...

>>>>>> Nah.  We weren't insane, and represented such numbers as
>>>>>> integers, with appropriate conversion functions!  When I were
>>>>>> a lad, we were required to do mental arithmetic involving
>>>>>> currency, and I go back to the days of farthings.  That skill
>>>>>> has disappeared, which has had the disadvantage that most people
>>>>>> no longer have the 'feel' for numbers that used to be normal.

>>>>> Interpress, at least.  XDS computers had a fairly standard float
>>>>> format (IIRC, don't have the details handy).  Maybe the Alto, did
>>>>> that have FP at all?

>>>>> Kids these days can't even do arithmetic in their heads in dollars
>>>>> and cents! They can't make change without a cash register or
>>>>> calculator telling them how much.

>>>> Yes they can. The ones I buy my tomatoes at the market from can.

>>> So apparently *some* of them can.  I guess you don't observe ones that can't?

>> I didnt say that. I was JUST commenting on your claim that none of them can.

> Not my claim.  Check the attribution lines.

I didnt say that. I was JUST commenting on the claim that none of them can.

>>> I do, sort of [*] ....

>> So do I.

>>> Could this be something that's different in different countries?

>> Nope.

>>> [*] My favorite example is what happens when, asked to pay in a
>>> retail establishment, I count out an amount of cash that will result
>>> in my getting back a few largish bills rather than small bills and
>>> change (e.g., $20.79 for a bill of $10.79).  Usually the checkout
>>> clerk just enters the amount in the cash register,

>> Cant say I have ever had one do that.

>>> but every once in a while he or she will look at
>>> me in puzzlement and say "this is too much".

>> Or that.

>>> Sometimes my explanation ("but this way you give me back a $10 bill") suffices.

>> Or that.

>>> Sometimes there's still this look of puzzlement, but usually
>>> the clerk can be encouraged to just enter the amount, etc.

>> Or that.

> Do you ever pay with cash, and supply an amount that's intended
> to reduce the number of bills/coins you receive as change?

Yes, very frequently, because I otherwise end up with a lot of coins
in my fob pocket because I dont often bother to pay with coins
unless the amount to be paid can be done with only a couple of coins.

> (Question intended to elicit information, not as some sort of challenge.)

>>> Then again, it occurs to me that some of the puzzled looks
>>> have come from people old enough to have learned to do
>>> arithmetic without mechanical/electronic assistance.  <shrug>

>> Presumably some of them are just reacting to your rabid
>> blood shot eys and flecks of foam about the lips etc.

> Charming description, but quite at odds with reality.

That was a joke, Joyce. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#4035

Fromblmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com>
Date2011-10-01 15:57 +0000
Message-ID<9eorieFhhsU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#3587
In article <9csdmvFf06U1@mid.individual.net>,
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> blmblm@myrealbox.com wrote
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> >> blmblm@myrealbox.com wrote
> >>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> >>>> Peter Flass wrote
> >>>>> nmm1@cam.ac.uk wrote
> >>>>>> Tim Shoppa<shoppa@trailing-edge.com>  wrote
> >>>>>>> Peter Flass<Peter_Fl...@Yahoo.com>  wrote
> 
> >>>>>>>> A lot of the Xerox stuff used "rational numbers", stored
> >>>>>>>> as an integer numerator and an integer denominator.
> 
> >>>>>>> Not sure what Xerox stuff this is. SDS/XDS, Alto, Star, or
> >>>>>>> something I never heard of :-). I know there was some academic
> >>>>>>> overlap between Interlisp/Smalltalk and the Star communities.
> 
> >>>>>>> I wonder if this was done for bignum or mathematica style stuff,
> >>>>>>> or if it was a different tack than fixed-point Cobol style math
> >>>>>>> to approach financial accounting.
> 
> >>>>>> Look up "fixed slash" arithmetic - I don't know what Xerox did,
> >>>>>> but I mention that in my computer arithmetic course.  I have just
> >>>>>> added an equally brief reference to quaternions :-)
> 
> >>>>>> http://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/courses/Arithmetic/index.html
> 
> >>>>>>> I know folks from across the pond could teach me a lot
> >>>>>>> about how to do math with twelfths and twentieths for
> >>>>>>> pennies/shillings/pounds and I can see this driving some
> >>>>>>> interesting British computer representations...
> 
> >>>>>> Nah.  We weren't insane, and represented such numbers as
> >>>>>> integers, with appropriate conversion functions!  When I were
> >>>>>> a lad, we were required to do mental arithmetic involving
> >>>>>> currency, and I go back to the days of farthings.  That skill
> >>>>>> has disappeared, which has had the disadvantage that most people
> >>>>>> no longer have the 'feel' for numbers that used to be normal.
> 
> >>>>> Interpress, at least.  XDS computers had a fairly standard float
> >>>>> format (IIRC, don't have the details handy).  Maybe the Alto, did
> >>>>> that have FP at all?
> 
> >>>>> Kids these days can't even do arithmetic in their heads in dollars
> >>>>> and cents! They can't make change without a cash register or
> >>>>> calculator telling them how much.
> 
> >>>> Yes they can. The ones I buy my tomatoes at the market from can.
> 
> >>> So apparently *some* of them can.  I guess you don't observe ones that can't?
> 
> >> I didnt say that. I was JUST commenting on your claim that none of them can.
> 
> > Not my claim.  Check the attribution lines.
> 
> I didnt say that. I was JUST commenting on the claim that none of them can.

What does "I was JUST commenting on your claim" mean, in your usage,
if it doesn't mean that you were commenting on something *I* --
not someone else in the discussion -- said?

(Yeah, yeah, very old post, probably ought to just let this one go,
but it's *such* a "say what?!" .... )

> >>> I do, sort of [*] ....
> 
> >> So do I.
> 
> >>> Could this be something that's different in different countries?
> 
> >> Nope.
> 
> >>> [*] My favorite example is what happens when, asked to pay in a
> >>> retail establishment, I count out an amount of cash that will result
> >>> in my getting back a few largish bills rather than small bills and
> >>> change (e.g., $20.79 for a bill of $10.79).  Usually the checkout
> >>> clerk just enters the amount in the cash register,
> 
> >> Cant say I have ever had one do that.
> 
> >>> but every once in a while he or she will look at
> >>> me in puzzlement and say "this is too much".
> 
> >> Or that.
> 
> >>> Sometimes my explanation ("but this way you give me back a $10 bill") suffices.
> 
> >> Or that.
> 
> >>> Sometimes there's still this look of puzzlement, but usually
> >>> the clerk can be encouraged to just enter the amount, etc.
> 
> >> Or that.
> 
> > Do you ever pay with cash, and supply an amount that's intended
> > to reduce the number of bills/coins you receive as change?
> 
> Yes, very frequently, because I otherwise end up with a lot of coins
> in my fob pocket because I dont often bother to pay with coins
> unless the amount to be paid can be done with only a couple of coins.

Huh.  Well, maybe you get a better, or at least different, class
of checkout clerks where you live.

> > (Question intended to elicit information, not as some sort of challenge.)
> 
> >>> Then again, it occurs to me that some of the puzzled looks
> >>> have come from people old enough to have learned to do
> >>> arithmetic without mechanical/electronic assistance.  <shrug>
> 
> >> Presumably some of them are just reacting to your rabid
> >> blood shot eys and flecks of foam about the lips etc.
> 
> > Charming description, but quite at odds with reality.
> 
> That was a joke, Joyce. 
> 

Was it, now.  Hm.  That might suggest a reinterpretation of a lot
of what you say.

-- 
B. L. Massingill
ObDisclaimer:  I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#4036

From"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
Date2011-10-02 05:51 +1100
Message-ID<9ep5qhF7lgU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#4035
blmblm@myrealbox.com wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> blmblm@myrealbox.com wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> blmblm@myrealbox.com wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> Peter Flass wrote
>>>>>>> nmm1@cam.ac.uk wrote
>>>>>>>> Tim Shoppa<shoppa@trailing-edge.com>  wrote
>>>>>>>>> Peter Flass<Peter_Fl...@Yahoo.com>  wrote

>>>>>>>>>> A lot of the Xerox stuff used "rational numbers", stored
>>>>>>>>>> as an integer numerator and an integer denominator.

>>>>>>>>> Not sure what Xerox stuff this is. SDS/XDS, Alto, Star, or
>>>>>>>>> something I never heard of :-). I know there was some academic
>>>>>>>>> overlap between Interlisp/Smalltalk and the Star communities.

>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this was done for bignum or mathematica style
>>>>>>>>> stuff, or if it was a different tack than fixed-point Cobol
>>>>>>>>> style math to approach financial accounting.

>>>>>>>> Look up "fixed slash" arithmetic - I don't know what Xerox did,
>>>>>>>> but I mention that in my computer arithmetic course.  I have
>>>>>>>> just added an equally brief reference to quaternions :-)

>>>>>>>> http://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/courses/Arithmetic/index.html

>>>>>>>>> I know folks from across the pond could teach me a lot
>>>>>>>>> about how to do math with twelfths and twentieths for
>>>>>>>>> pennies/shillings/pounds and I can see this driving some
>>>>>>>>> interesting British computer representations...

>>>>>>>> Nah.  We weren't insane, and represented such numbers as
>>>>>>>> integers, with appropriate conversion functions!  When I were
>>>>>>>> a lad, we were required to do mental arithmetic involving
>>>>>>>> currency, and I go back to the days of farthings.  That skill
>>>>>>>> has disappeared, which has had the disadvantage that most
>>>>>>>> people no longer have the 'feel' for numbers that used to be
>>>>>>>> normal.

>>>>>>> Interpress, at least.  XDS computers had a fairly standard float
>>>>>>> format (IIRC, don't have the details handy).  Maybe the Alto,
>>>>>>> did that have FP at all?

>>>>>>> Kids these days can't even do arithmetic in their heads in
>>>>>>> dollars and cents! They can't make change without a cash
>>>>>>> register or calculator telling them how much.

>>>>>> Yes they can. The ones I buy my tomatoes at the market from can.

>>>>> So apparently *some* of them can.  I guess you don't observe ones that can't?

>>>> I didnt say that. I was JUST commenting on your claim that none of them can.

>>> Not my claim.  Check the attribution lines.

>> I didnt say that. I was JUST commenting on the claim that none of them can.

> What does "I was JUST commenting on your claim" mean, in your usage,
> if it doesn't mean that you were commenting on something *I* --
> not someone else in the discussion -- said?

The second one fixed the error in the first one that you noted.

> (Yeah, yeah, very old post, probably ought to just let this one go,
> but it's *such* a "say what?!" .... )

No its not. You can kick yourself now.

>>>>> I do, sort of [*] ....

>>>> So do I.

>>>>> Could this be something that's different in different countries?

>>>> Nope.

>>>>> [*] My favorite example is what happens when, asked to pay in a
>>>>> retail establishment, I count out an amount of cash that will result
>>>>> in my getting back a few largish bills rather than small bills and
>>>>> change (e.g., $20.79 for a bill of $10.79).  Usually the checkout
>>>>> clerk just enters the amount in the cash register,

>>>> Cant say I have ever had one do that.

>>>>> but every once in a while he or she will look at
>>>>> me in puzzlement and say "this is too much".

>>>> Or that.

>>>>> Sometimes my explanation ("but this way you give me back a $10 bill") suffices.

>>>> Or that.

>>>>> Sometimes there's still this look of puzzlement, but usually
>>>>> the clerk can be encouraged to just enter the amount, etc.

>>>> Or that.

>>> Do you ever pay with cash, and supply an amount that's intended
>>> to reduce the number of bills/coins you receive as change?

>> Yes, very frequently, because I otherwise end up with a lot of coins
>> in my fob pocket because I dont often bother to pay with coins
>> unless the amount to be paid can be done with only a couple of coins.

> Huh.  Well, maybe you get a better, or at least different, class
> of checkout clerks where you live.

Or maybe your original is just plain wrong.

>>> (Question intended to elicit information, not as some sort of challenge.)

>>>>> Then again, it occurs to me that some of the puzzled looks
>>>>> have come from people old enough to have learned to do
>>>>> arithmetic without mechanical/electronic assistance.  <shrug>

>>>> Presumably some of them are just reacting to your rabid
>>>> blood shot eys and flecks of foam about the lips etc.

>>> Charming description, but quite at odds with reality.

>> That was a joke, Joyce.

> Was it, now.  Hm.  That might suggest a reinterpretation of a lot of what you say.

The jokes do stand out like dogs balls like that one did. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#4048

Fromblmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com>
Date2011-10-07 11:31 +0000
Message-ID<9f867rFugsU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#4036
(Apologies for not snipping extraneous material, but with RS I
don't really dare .... )

In article <9ep5qhF7lgU2@mid.individual.net>,
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> blmblm@myrealbox.com wrote
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> >> blmblm@myrealbox.com wrote
> >>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> >>>> blmblm@myrealbox.com wrote
> >>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> >>>>>> Peter Flass wrote
> >>>>>>> nmm1@cam.ac.uk wrote
> >>>>>>>> Tim Shoppa<shoppa@trailing-edge.com>  wrote
> >>>>>>>>> Peter Flass<Peter_Fl...@Yahoo.com>  wrote
> 
> >>>>>>>>>> A lot of the Xerox stuff used "rational numbers", stored
> >>>>>>>>>> as an integer numerator and an integer denominator.
> 
> >>>>>>>>> Not sure what Xerox stuff this is. SDS/XDS, Alto, Star, or
> >>>>>>>>> something I never heard of :-). I know there was some academic
> >>>>>>>>> overlap between Interlisp/Smalltalk and the Star communities.
> 
> >>>>>>>>> I wonder if this was done for bignum or mathematica style
> >>>>>>>>> stuff, or if it was a different tack than fixed-point Cobol
> >>>>>>>>> style math to approach financial accounting.
> 
> >>>>>>>> Look up "fixed slash" arithmetic - I don't know what Xerox did,
> >>>>>>>> but I mention that in my computer arithmetic course.  I have
> >>>>>>>> just added an equally brief reference to quaternions :-)
> 
> >>>>>>>> http://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/courses/Arithmetic/index.html
> 
> >>>>>>>>> I know folks from across the pond could teach me a lot
> >>>>>>>>> about how to do math with twelfths and twentieths for
> >>>>>>>>> pennies/shillings/pounds and I can see this driving some
> >>>>>>>>> interesting British computer representations...
> 
> >>>>>>>> Nah.  We weren't insane, and represented such numbers as
> >>>>>>>> integers, with appropriate conversion functions!  When I were
> >>>>>>>> a lad, we were required to do mental arithmetic involving
> >>>>>>>> currency, and I go back to the days of farthings.  That skill
> >>>>>>>> has disappeared, which has had the disadvantage that most
> >>>>>>>> people no longer have the 'feel' for numbers that used to be
> >>>>>>>> normal.
> 
> >>>>>>> Interpress, at least.  XDS computers had a fairly standard float
> >>>>>>> format (IIRC, don't have the details handy).  Maybe the Alto,
> >>>>>>> did that have FP at all?
> 
> >>>>>>> Kids these days can't even do arithmetic in their heads in
> >>>>>>> dollars and cents! They can't make change without a cash
> >>>>>>> register or calculator telling them how much.
> 
> >>>>>> Yes they can. The ones I buy my tomatoes at the market from can.
> 
> >>>>> So apparently *some* of them can.  I guess you don't observe ones that can't?
> 
> >>>> I didnt say that. I was JUST commenting on your claim that none of them can.
> 
> >>> Not my claim.  Check the attribution lines.
> 
> >> I didnt say that. I was JUST commenting on the claim that none of them can.
> 
> > What does "I was JUST commenting on your claim" mean, in your usage,
> > if it doesn't mean that you were commenting on something *I* --
> > not someone else in the discussion -- said?
> 
> The second one fixed the error in the first one that you noted.


The, the ....  what?!  Have you just admitted to making an error?!
(Yeah, yeah, I think this *has* happened on a few occasions.)


> > (Yeah, yeah, very old post, probably ought to just let this one go,
> > but it's *such* a "say what?!" .... )
> 
> No its not. You can kick yourself now.


Why would I want to do that?  


> >>>>> I do, sort of [*] ....
> 
> >>>> So do I.
> 
> >>>>> Could this be something that's different in different countries?
> 
> >>>> Nope.
> 
> >>>>> [*] My favorite example is what happens when, asked to pay in a
> >>>>> retail establishment, I count out an amount of cash that will result
> >>>>> in my getting back a few largish bills rather than small bills and
> >>>>> change (e.g., $20.79 for a bill of $10.79).  Usually the checkout
> >>>>> clerk just enters the amount in the cash register,
> 
> >>>> Cant say I have ever had one do that.
> 
> >>>>> but every once in a while he or she will look at
> >>>>> me in puzzlement and say "this is too much".
> 
> >>>> Or that.
> 
> >>>>> Sometimes my explanation ("but this way you give me back a $10 bill") suffices.
> 
> >>>> Or that.
> 
> >>>>> Sometimes there's still this look of puzzlement, but usually
> >>>>> the clerk can be encouraged to just enter the amount, etc.
> 
> >>>> Or that.
> 
> >>> Do you ever pay with cash, and supply an amount that's intended
> >>> to reduce the number of bills/coins you receive as change?
> 
> >> Yes, very frequently, because I otherwise end up with a lot of coins
> >> in my fob pocket because I dont often bother to pay with coins
> >> unless the amount to be paid can be done with only a couple of coins.
> 
> > Huh.  Well, maybe you get a better, or at least different, class
> > of checkout clerks where you live.
> 
> Or maybe your original is just plain wrong.


Or maybe once again you're unwilling to consider that someone else's
experience might differ from yours.  Why?

The puzzled-clerk phenomenon I was reporting on doesn't happen often,
but it does happen, and while I suppose I could be misinterpreting
facial expressions, sometimes the clerk even says "you gave me too
much here", which to me seems pretty unambiguously a sign that the
clerk doesn't understand.


> >>> (Question intended to elicit information, not as some sort of challenge.)
> 
> >>>>> Then again, it occurs to me that some of the puzzled looks
> >>>>> have come from people old enough to have learned to do
> >>>>> arithmetic without mechanical/electronic assistance.  <shrug>
> 
> >>>> Presumably some of them are just reacting to your rabid
> >>>> blood shot eys and flecks of foam about the lips etc.
> 
> >>> Charming description, but quite at odds with reality.
> 
> >> That was a joke, Joyce.
> 
> > Was it, now.  Hm.  That might suggest a reinterpretation of a lot of what you say.
> 
> The jokes do stand out like dogs balls like that one did. 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
B. L. Massingill
ObDisclaimer:  I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.

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#3516

FromMorten Reistad <first@last.name>
Date2011-09-07 14:08 +0200
Message-ID<4e675f69$2@news.broadpark.no>
In reply to#3509
In article <9coqi9F9ppU9@mid.individual.net>,
blmblm@myrealbox.com  <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> wrote:
>In article <9cah3eFl5lU1@mid.individual.net>,
>Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Peter Flass wrote

>> > Kids these days can't even do arithmetic in their heads in dollars and
>> > cents! They can't make change without a cash register or calculator
>> > telling them how much.
>> 
>> Yes they can. The ones I buy my tomatoes at the market from can. 
>
>So apparently *some* of them can.  I guess you don't observe ones
>that can't?  I do, sort of [*] ....  Could this be something that's
>different in different countries?

My dad worked in banks for 20 years before there were digital computers
(and remembers the "computer" as a work title).

He sometimes plays with the heads of the people at the supermarket
checkout by starting to give the money, exact change; and then sends
the goods through, and just goes to get the goods packed.

He hasn't made a mistake in pricing there yet, but the stores have
regular differences. It may hold up a register for a few minutes when
they sort this out.

>[*] My favorite example is what happens when, asked to pay in a
>retail establishment, I count out an amount of cash that will result
>in my getting back a few largish bills rather than small bills and
>change (e.g., $20.79 for a bill of $10.79).  Usually the checkout
>clerk just enters the amount in the cash register, but every once
>in a while he or she will look at me in puzzlement and say "this is
>too much".  Sometimes my explanation ("but this way you give me back
>a $10 bill") suffices.  Sometimes there's still this look of puzzlement,
>but usually the clerk can be encouraged to just enter the amount, etc.
>
>Then again, it occurs to me that some of the puzzled looks have come
>from people old enough to have learned to do arithmetic without
>mechanical/electronic assistance.  <shrug>

The critical year for the calculator was 1979, that is when it hit
the large consumer stores; and people that were not in 4th grade by then
are vulnerable to this problem. Which should make a cutoff year of
birth at 1968 or something. I knew there was something about that year.

--  mrr

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#3520

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2011-09-07 14:18 +0100
Message-ID<20110907141851.6b565e9a.steveo@eircom.net>
In reply to#3516
On Wed, 7 Sep 2011 14:08:23 +0200
Morten Reistad <first@last.name> wrote:

> The critical year for the calculator was 1979, that is when it hit

	That sounds too late, I started senior school in 1970 using slide
rules. By about 1974 enough of the class had calculators that they were
allowed to be used in the daily slide rule drills. Those using calculators
usually took longer and produced more wrong answers than those with slide
rules.

	I'd put the critical year at 1975, (Sinclair put out the Cambridge
in 1973 for about £40 dropping to about £30 quite quickly) by 1975
calculators had pretty much completely supplanted slide rules in schools
although I stuck with my 10" British Thornton until 1976 when I got a CBM
SR4190 (90 function scientific cost about £50). I still have the slide rule
(in perfect order) but that calculator is long since dead and gone.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN                                      | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#3522

FromHuge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>
Date2011-09-07 14:05 +0000
Message-ID<9cpc1vFhasU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#3520
On 2011-09-07, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Sep 2011 14:08:23 +0200
> Morten Reistad <first@last.name> wrote:
>
>> The critical year for the calculator was 1979, that is when it hit
>
> 	That sounds too late, I started senior school in 1970 using slide
> rules. By about 1974 enough of the class had calculators that they were
> allowed to be used in the daily slide rule drills. Those using calculators
> usually took longer and produced more wrong answers than those with slide
> rules.
>
> 	I'd put the critical year at 1975, (Sinclair put out the Cambridge
> in 1973 for about £40 dropping to about £30 quite quickly) by 1975
> calculators had pretty much completely supplanted slide rules in schools
> although I stuck with my 10" British Thornton until 1976 when I got a CBM
> SR4190 (90 function scientific cost about £50). I still have the slide rule
> (in perfect order) but that calculator is long since dead and gone.

[Rummages in desk drawer. Gets out Faber-Castell 52/82 Slide Rule. Sighs
nostalgically.]

I think I bought that in about 1970. The calculators we had at school
were mechanical (I have one of those, too, although I only acquired it
recently.) The first electronic calculator I saw was in in the prep
room of my first year organic chemistry class when I went to University
in 1972. It had Nixie tubes, and I've wanted a Nixie tube clock ever
since.

[Sighs nostalgically some more].

-- 
Today is Setting Orange, the 31st day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3177
The bankers may have tipped us in, but the politicians dug the hole.

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