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Groups > comp.arch > #110876 > unrolled thread

Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC

Started byLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
First post2025-03-01 08:09 +0000
Last post2026-10-26 22:13 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 321 — 35 participants

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Contents

  Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-01 08:09 +0000
    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-01 11:58 +0000
      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-01 18:03 +0000
        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-03-01 20:01 +0000
        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-02 09:34 +0000
          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.co.uk> - 2025-03-02 15:42 +0000
            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-02 18:30 +0000
              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.co.uk> - 2025-03-05 15:01 +0000
                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-06 00:24 +0000
                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-06 01:01 +0000
            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2025-03-02 09:03 -1000
          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-03-02 13:51 -0500
            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-03 18:05 +0000
              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-03-03 19:24 +0000
                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-03 20:04 +0000
                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-03 22:41 +0000
                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-03-05 18:08 +0000
                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-03-05 19:04 -0500
                      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-03-06 06:53 +0000
                        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-03-07 14:26 -0500
                          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-08 10:52 +0000
                            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-03-08 13:03 -0500
                              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-08 19:42 +0000
                                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-03-09 10:13 -0400
                            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Torbjorn Lindgren <tl@none.invalid> - 2025-03-09 01:27 +0000
                              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-09 01:46 +0000
                                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-03-09 07:02 +0000
                              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-03-09 10:15 -0400
              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-03-03 20:12 -0500
                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-04 10:09 +0000
          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-02 21:26 +0000
            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-02 21:57 +0000
              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-02 23:43 +0000
                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-03 02:08 +0000
          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-02 16:35 -0600
      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-01 17:59 +0000
        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-01 17:42 -0800
      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-03-01 20:46 +0000
        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-01 22:25 +0000
          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-02 02:40 +0000
            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-02 13:19 +0000
              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-02 21:48 +0000
                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-03 17:57 +0000
                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-03 23:27 +0000
              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-02 22:00 +0000
                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-03 14:56 +0000
          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2025-03-01 18:29 -1000
          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-03-02 20:02 +0000
            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-02 21:50 +0000
            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-02 22:40 +0000
              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-03-03 02:58 +0000
                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-03 03:36 +0000
                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-03 07:39 +0000
                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-03 14:45 +0200
                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-03 17:32 +0000
                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-03 23:26 +0000
              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-03-03 07:24 +0000
                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-03 08:06 +0000
                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-03 16:41 -0600
              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC MarkC <usenet@em-ess-see-twenty-seven.me.uk> - 2025-03-03 12:43 +0000
                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-03 16:44 +0000
                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-03-03 17:53 +0000
                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-03 23:23 +0000
                      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-04 03:04 -0600
                      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-04 10:04 +0000
                        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-04 23:27 +0000
                          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-05 07:36 +0000
                            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-03-06 02:30 +0000
                              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2025-03-06 16:11 -1000
                                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-03-08 07:27 +0000
                            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-07 02:27 +0000
                              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-07 04:09 +0000
                                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-07 05:08 -0600
                                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-07 17:34 +0000
                                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2025-03-07 13:27 -0500
                                      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-07 20:07 +0000
                                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-07 15:00 -0600
                                      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-07 22:51 +0000
                                      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2025-03-07 18:40 -0500
                                        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-07 20:49 -0600
                                          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-08 03:28 +0000
                                            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-09 02:55 +0000
                                            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-10 17:40 -0500
                                              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-10 23:17 +0000
                                                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-10 19:30 -0500
                                              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-11 00:53 +0000
                                                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2025-03-10 22:49 -0400
                                                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 01:14 -0500
                                                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-11 18:00 +0000
                                                      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-11 21:29 +0000
                                                        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-03-11 22:41 +0100
                                                          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> - 2025-03-11 16:57 -0500
                                                          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-11 22:40 +0000
                                                            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-12 08:57 +0000
                                                              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-12 21:35 +0000
                                                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-11 17:44 +0000
                                                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-03-11 11:15 -0700
                                                      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-11 18:56 +0000
                                                        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-03-11 13:46 -0700
                                                          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-11 22:43 +0000
                                                            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 18:52 -0500
                                                              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-12 00:34 +0000
                                                        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 18:48 -0500
                                                      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC moi <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2025-03-11 19:07 +0000
                                                        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-03-11 13:39 -0700
                                                          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-11 22:44 +0000
                                                            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 18:58 -0500
                                                              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-12 00:37 +0000
                                                                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-03-11 19:28 -0700
                                                              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-12 00:51 +0000
                                                                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-12 01:24 -0500
                                                                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-12 14:14 +0000
                                                                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-03-12 17:08 +0100
                                                            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-12 00:36 +0000
                                                            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-12 09:07 +0000
                                                              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-12 23:55 +0000
                                                          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC moi <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2025-03-12 00:27 +0000
                                                        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-12 00:37 +0000
                                                          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC moi <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2025-03-12 00:43 +0000
                                                      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-11 21:26 +0000
                                                        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-03-12 00:26 +0000
                                                          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-12 00:38 +0000
                                                            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-12 04:02 -0500
                                                            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-12 09:14 +0000
                                                      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-11 22:42 +0000
                                                        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-12 00:42 +0000
                                                      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-12 08:02 +0000
                                                        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-12 23:58 +0000
                                                        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-03-13 12:08 -0700
                                                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-11 21:18 +0000
                                                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-10 23:49 -0500
                                                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-11 17:57 +0000
                                                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 16:20 -0500
                                                      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-12 00:33 +0000
                                                        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-12 01:09 -0500
                                        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-07 20:48 -0600
                                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-07 22:25 +0000
                                      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-07 22:45 +0000
                                        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-08 14:36 +0000
                                          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-08 17:57 +0000
                                      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-07 17:19 -0600
                                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2025-03-07 13:03 -0500
                                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-07 16:57 -0600
                                      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-08 01:02 +0000
                                        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-08 02:08 +0000
                                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-07 17:35 +0000
                                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-03-07 18:52 +0000
                                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-08 01:00 +0000
                                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-08 00:57 +0000
                                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-03-07 14:59 -0500
                                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-07 20:25 +0000
                                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-11 22:15 +0000
                                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-11 22:48 +0000
                                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-12 00:46 +0000
                                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-12 08:42 +0000
                                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-12 11:48 +0200
                                      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-12 11:28 +0000
                                        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-12 14:09 +0200
                                          rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove (was: Why VAX ..) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-12 16:46 +0000
                                            Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-12 17:44 +0000
                                              Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-13 00:03 +0000
                                                Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-13 00:49 +0000
                                                  Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-13 02:34 +0000
                                                    Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-03-13 01:48 -0400
                                                      Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2025-03-13 05:10 -0400
                                                        Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-13 16:15 +0000
                                                    Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-13 16:29 +0200
                                                      Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-13 16:19 +0000
                                                    Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-13 16:10 +0000
                                              Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-03-13 09:40 -0400
                                                Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-13 16:23 +0200
                                                Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-13 16:24 +0000
                                                  Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-03-13 12:43 -0400
                                                    Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-13 19:35 +0000
                                                      Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-03-13 15:53 -0400
                                                        Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-13 20:59 +0000
                                                          Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-03-13 17:44 -0400
                                                          Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-13 23:24 +0000
                                                            Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2025-03-16 14:27 +0000
                                                      Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-13 22:55 +0200
                                                        Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-13 21:42 +0000
                                                          Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-03-13 17:48 -0400
                                                            Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-13 23:25 +0000
                                                              Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-14 00:19 +0000
                                                                Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-14 14:35 +0000
                                                              Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-03-13 21:08 -0400
                                                                Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-14 01:30 +0000
                                                                  Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-03-13 22:20 -0400
                                                          Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-14 00:16 +0200
                                                            Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-13 23:27 +0000
                                                              Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-14 12:10 +0200
                                                                Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-14 11:15 +0000
                                                            Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-14 00:18 +0000
                                                              Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-14 12:06 +0200
                                                                Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-14 12:25 +0000
                                                              Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-14 14:38 +0000
                                                            Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-03-14 12:52 +0100
                                                              Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-14 14:00 +0200
                                                            Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-14 13:18 +0000
                                                              Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-14 16:20 +0200
                                                                Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-14 14:46 +0000
                                                                  Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-14 16:51 +0200
                                                                    Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-14 15:39 +0000
                                                                      Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-14 17:38 +0000
                                                              Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-14 14:44 +0000
                                                              Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-03-14 16:37 -0400
                                                                Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-14 22:23 +0000
                                            Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove (was: Why VAX ..) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-13 23:06 +0200
                                              Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-13 22:07 +0000
                                              Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove (was: Why VAX ..) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-14 12:43 +0000
                                            Re: rep movsb vs. simpler instructions for memcpy/memmove (was: Why VAX ..) George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-03-16 01:22 -0400
                                          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-13 00:03 +0000
                                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-13 00:01 +0000
                              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-07 13:57 +0200
                                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-03-07 15:23 +0100
                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.co.uk> - 2025-03-03 22:15 +0000
                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-04 08:39 +0000
      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-01 16:29 -0600
        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-02 01:02 +0000
          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-02 02:56 -0600
        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-02 11:46 +0000
          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-02 14:39 -0600
            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-03-02 13:16 -0800
              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-02 22:00 +0000
            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-03-02 22:27 +0000
              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC "Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com> - 2025-03-03 11:04 -0500
                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-03-04 02:09 +0000
                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC "Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com> - 2025-03-04 11:46 -0500
                    Re: PC/IX, not, Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-03-04 21:00 +0000
                      Re: PC/IX, not, Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC "Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com> - 2025-03-04 17:51 -0500
                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2025-03-04 16:53 +0000
                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-04 23:29 +0000
                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2025-03-05 09:16 +0000
                      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-03-07 06:03 -0500
                        Re: PC/IX, Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-03-08 01:13 +0000
          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-03-03 16:34 +0100
            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-03 17:21 +0000
              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-03-03 18:51 +0100
              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-03 19:53 +0200
                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-03-04 16:32 -0500
                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-05 01:28 +0200
                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-05 00:05 +0000
                      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-05 15:07 +0200
            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-03 23:32 +0000
        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-02 21:56 +0000
      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-02 00:16 +0000
        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-02 12:10 +0000
      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-03-05 15:28 -0500
        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-03-05 21:15 +0000
    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-03-01 14:40 -0500
      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-01 22:30 +0000
      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-01 23:19 +0000
        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-01 17:45 -0600
        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-03-01 17:45 -0600
          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-02 16:33 +0200
        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-03-02 12:03 +0000
          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-02 21:35 +0000
      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-03-02 21:50 +0000
    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-03-05 11:58 +0000
      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-06 00:28 +0000
    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-24 00:05 +0000
      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-24 19:28 +0000
        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-10-24 20:42 +0000
          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-26 18:33 +0000
            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-10-26 19:56 +0000
              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-10-27 06:31 +0000
                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-27 16:58 +0000
                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-10-27 20:43 +0000
                  Register windows (was: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-29 16:11 +0000
                    Re: Register windows (was: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-29 17:54 +0000
                      Re: Register windows (was: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-29 18:09 +0000
                        Re: Register windows (was: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-29 20:31 +0000
                          Re: Register windows (was: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-30 07:06 +0000
                            Re: Register windows (was: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-30 18:34 +0000
                              Re: Register windows (was: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-31 08:13 +0000
                                Re: Register windows (was: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-31 18:22 +0000
                                  Re: Register windows (was: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-31 19:15 +0000
                                    Re: Register windows (was: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-31 20:44 +0000
                                      Re: Register windows Paul Clayton <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2026-11-04 22:45 -0500
                        Re: Register windows antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-07 16:21 +0000
                          Re: Register windows anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-11-07 18:01 +0000
                            Re: Register windows antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-08 04:37 +0000
                              Re: Register windows Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-08 04:49 +0000
                                Re: Register windows antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-08 14:19 +0000
                              call and return speed (was: Register windows) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-11-08 06:33 +0000
                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-30 00:10 +0000
                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-30 00:33 +0000
        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-24 22:20 +0000
          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-24 23:33 +0000
        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-10-25 12:56 -0400
          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-10-25 18:42 +0000
            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-10-25 20:03 +0000
          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-10-25 23:36 -0400
            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-26 18:46 +0000
              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-10-26 14:29 -0700
        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-26 18:19 +0000
          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-27 16:41 +0000
            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-27 18:16 +0000
              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-27 21:01 +0000
                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-10-27 21:14 +0000
      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-26 18:06 +0000
        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-10-26 18:53 +0000
          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-10-26 14:30 -0700
            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-10-26 14:32 -0700
              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-26 22:16 +0000
                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-27 10:04 -0700
                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-10-27 12:44 -0700
                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-27 13:03 -0700
                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Roman Belenov <no@spam.please> - 2026-10-27 20:22 +0300
                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-27 18:05 +0000
                    Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-27 20:15 +0200
                      Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-27 18:50 +0000
                        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-27 21:16 +0200
                          Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-10-27 12:46 -0700
                            Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-27 22:00 +0200
                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Dave Yeo <dave.r.yeo@gmail.com> - 2026-10-27 11:14 -0700
                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-27 22:19 +0000
              Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-10-27 08:18 +0000
                Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-27 22:32 +0000
                  Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-10-28 08:08 +0000
        Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-26 22:13 +0000

Page 12 of 17 — ← Prev page 1 … 10 11 [12] 13 14 … 17  Next page →


#110896

Fromanton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Date2025-03-02 11:46 +0000
Message-ID<2025Mar2.124623@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
In reply to#110883
BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> writes:
>It almost seems like they could have tried making a PDP-11 based PC.

I dimly remember that there were efforts in that direction.  But the
PDP-11 does not even have the cumbersome support for more than 64KB
that the 8086 has (there were PDP-11s with more, but that was even
more cumbersome to use).

DEC also tried their hand in the PC-like business (DEC Rainbow 100).
They did not succeed.  Maybe that's the decisive difference from HP:
They did succeed in the PC market.

>DEC could have maybe had a marketing advantage in, say, "Hey, our crap 
>can run UNIX" and "UNIX is better than DOS".

That was not what customers were interested in.  There were various
Unix variants available for the PC, but the customers preferred using
DOS, which was preinstalled and did not cost extra.  And even when you
could install Unix for free in the form of Linux, most customers just
used Windows which was preinstalled, and (probably decisively) for the
network effects).

- anton
-- 
'Anyone trying for "industrial quality" ISA should avoid undefined behavior.'
  Mitch Alsup, <c17fcd89-f024-40e7-a594-88a85ac10d20o@googlegroups.com>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#110906

FromBGB <cr88192@gmail.com>
Date2025-03-02 14:39 -0600
Message-ID<vq2fmi$udn2$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#110896
On 3/2/2025 5:46 AM, Anton Ertl wrote:
> BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> writes:
>> It almost seems like they could have tried making a PDP-11 based PC.
> 
> I dimly remember that there were efforts in that direction.  But the
> PDP-11 does not even have the cumbersome support for more than 64KB
> that the 8086 has (there were PDP-11s with more, but that was even
> more cumbersome to use).
> 

I had thought it apparently used a model similar to the 65C816.

Namely, that you could address 64K code + 64K data at a time, but then 
load a value into a special register to access different RAM banks.

Granted, no first hand experience with PDP-11.


> DEC also tried their hand in the PC-like business (DEC Rainbow 100).
> They did not succeed.  Maybe that's the decisive difference from HP:
> They did succeed in the PC market.
> 

I guess they could have also tried competing against the Commodore 64 
and Apple II, which were also popular around that era.

No idea how their pricing compared with the IBM PC's, but in any case, 
those who had success were generally a lot cheaper.


Well, except for the Macintosh apparently, which managed to survive with 
its comparably higher costs.

Well, and the cheaper Apple IIGS, which died off, but was apparently 
hindered by MOS having poor yields for the needed CPUs (but, I do 
remember having messed around with a IIGS back when I was in elementary 
school; though most of the PCs around the school at that time were 
running Windows 3.x).

I was odd though, in middle school, rather than running Win9x, I ran 
NT4, before jumping to Win2K and using this in high school (with most 
PC's at this time running Win98).

But, before that, most computers were DOS + Win 3.11 or similar.



>> DEC could have maybe had a marketing advantage in, say, "Hey, our crap
>> can run UNIX" and "UNIX is better than DOS".
> 
> That was not what customers were interested in.  There were various
> Unix variants available for the PC, but the customers preferred using
> DOS, which was preinstalled and did not cost extra.  And even when you
> could install Unix for free in the form of Linux, most customers just
> used Windows which was preinstalled, and (probably decisively) for the
> network effects).
> 

Presumably they could have had freely pre-installed Unix?...

Then again, I think by this point, AT&T had started asking for licensing 
fees for original Unix variants.

I think also BSD was a little later in the timeline, running on 
386-based systems and them mostly competing with Linux.


There is presumably a non-zero Unix influence on Windows given that the 
binaries were basically COFF with an MZ stub glued on.

Well, and my variant goes partly the other way:
Drops the MZ header and mostly LZ4 compresses the binary;
But, not using LZ to save space, but rather to increase loading speed.


Though, the Boot ROM's LZ4 decoder still isn't particularly fast (it is 
up there with reading data from the SDcard; but I also need to care 
about code footprint in this case). Mostly matters in Verilator (time 
spent waiting for the kernel to load).


Though, ironically, did end up reworking Doom's loader code, mostly to 
make it not take a whole day to load in a Verilator sim:
Rather than trying to load all of the textures and sprites up-front, it 
now merely initializes placeholder arrays, and does the actual loading 
lazily.

Maps generally only use a subset of the textures and enemies, so it 
works out faster to load them as they are encountered (though, does add 
a certain amount of jitter as things are loaded in, *). A possible 
"ideal" way could be to "prefetch" things at map startup, but with Doom 
this would add complexity.

*: The first time the player "sees" a given sprite or a linedef with a 
particular texture, it gets demand loaded. Not taking a full day of 
simulation to start up beats having a certain amount of demand-load jitter.

Likely "fix" here would be to add something to go at map load-time, and 
for every linedef texture, probe that it is loaded, and for every 
"thing", check if sprites have been prefetched for that type, and if 
not, prefetch them.

Could maybe also add something to demand-load the sound effects.


Can note that Quake had used a different strategy:
It loads everything used for a given map, for every map load, with no 
caching of game assets whatsoever. So, it uses a sliding, stack like 
"Hunk" allocator, mostly relegating the Doom style "Z_Malloc" allocator 
mostly to handling HUD graphics and similar.

Though, Z_Malloc did have the notable limitation that it needs to 
reserve all of its memory up-front, rather than growing the heap in 
chunks like most other "malloc" style allocators.


The TestKern malloc also has some overlapping features with Z_Malloc, 
but one feature that plays a role in Doom is absent:
With Z_Malloc, memory allocations could be tied to a pointer, where if 
the alloc is freed, this pointer is NULL'ed automatically.

Though, in theory, it can be faked:
It can assign type-tags to memory allocations, and can register 
finalizer callbacks for these type tags.

So, one could make an object type that has this pointer-to-pointer and 
NULL's the associated pointer if the finalizer is called (and then 
possibly breaks stuff if the memory holding the pointer manages to get 
freed before the finalizer gets called).

Though, generally, in TestKern, auto NULL'ing on zone-freeing was not 
really a thing.




Then, random occurrence:
I often use VLC as a background music player;
Whenever it changes songs/videos, it momentarily grabs keyboard input;
Last night, it managed to capture input as I was typing something, it 
did something, but happened quickly enough that I didn't see what exactly...

Then, it seems apparently, it had gone and added all the "Sonic Rush" 
music to my playlist. Encountered it, was like, "OK, whatever, haven't 
heard this in a while, will let it play."

After a little while, was getting a bit old, checked it; seems it was 
set to loop the same song for a good part of an hour (of which I had sat 
through a little over 10 minutes).

But, yeah, can note that there are different properties for songs that 
are "listen once, and done" vs "works well if played in a loop". If one 
has too many "catchy" features, this can work well in a one-off song, 
but can quickly become annoying if it is played in a loop.

Say, for general suitability to looping background music:
   Poor:
     Hip-Hop
     Swing Jazz
   Meh bad:
     Disco style
     Rap
   Neutral:
     Butt metal
     Lounge Jazz
   Better:
     A lot of classical;
     Instrumental;
     Rave or EDM.

Stuff works OK between 120 and 180 BPM, probably better off not going 
too much over 200 BPM. Also preferable if things like vocals or other 
"distinguishing elements" are avoided, ...

So, yeah, probably better off just getting some super generic rave beats 
or similar and going with that.


Well, or failing this, the sound of over-driven speakers going "thump 
thump thump thump", which is seemingly sufficient to imply that loud 
music is being played, without any actual music being played (like, say, 
it is a 1 second looped stock sound effect, but no one really notices...).

Though, this is maybe going to far in the opposite direction.



> - anton

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#110907

FromStephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid>
Date2025-03-02 13:16 -0800
Message-ID<vq2hs5$ub6t$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#110906
On 3/2/2025 12:39 PM, BGB wrote:
> On 3/2/2025 5:46 AM, Anton Ertl wrote:
>> BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> writes:
>>> It almost seems like they could have tried making a PDP-11 based PC.
>>
>> I dimly remember that there were efforts in that direction.  But the
>> PDP-11 does not even have the cumbersome support for more than 64KB
>> that the 8086 has (there were PDP-11s with more, but that was even
>> more cumbersome to use).
>>
> 
> I had thought it apparently used a model similar to the 65C816.
> 
> Namely, that you could address 64K code + 64K data at a time, but then 
> load a value into a special register to access different RAM banks.
> 
> Granted, no first hand experience with PDP-11.
> 
> 
>> DEC also tried their hand in the PC-like business (DEC Rainbow 100).
>> They did not succeed.  Maybe that's the decisive difference from HP:
>> They did succeed in the PC market.
>>
> 
> I guess they could have also tried competing against the Commodore 64 
> and Apple II, which were also popular around that era.
> 
> No idea how their pricing compared with the IBM PC's, but in any case, 
> those who had success were generally a lot cheaper.
> 
> 
> Well, except for the Macintosh apparently, which managed to survive with 
> its comparably higher costs.

Yes, but . . .  Its earlier, more expensive incarnation, the Lisa did 
not survive, which shows there is a limit to how much more people are 
willing to pay.  And Macintosh was initially successful as a sort of 
niche machine for "creative types", as opposed to "business users" who 
used PCs.


-- 
  - Stephen Fuld
(e-mail address disguised to prevent spam)

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#110915

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-03-02 22:00 +0000
Message-ID<vq2kda$v1q6$11@dont-email.me>
In reply to#110907
On Sun, 2 Mar 2025 13:16:52 -0800, Stephen Fuld wrote:

> And Macintosh was initially successful as a sort of niche machine
> for "creative types", as opposed to "business users" who used PCs.

Desktop publishing! That was the killer new market that was basically 
created by/on the Macintosh (together with the Apple LaserWriter), and 
which it dominated for many years.

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#110917

FromJohn Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Date2025-03-02 22:27 +0000
Message-ID<vq2m1f$19od$1@gal.iecc.com>
In reply to#110906
According to BGB  <cr88192@gmail.com>:
>I had thought it apparently used a model similar to the 65C816.
>
>Namely, that you could address 64K code + 64K data at a time, but then 
>load a value into a special register to access different RAM banks.

Not really.  The low end PDP-11's were 16 bit, 64K was it.

The larger ones had memory mapping with 8K pages, a size carefully
chosen to be too large for paging, but too small to map whole programs.
There were three modes, user, supervisor, and kernel, with 64K instruction
and data in each.  The kernel changed the maps by poking values into
I/O addresses, so it's not something a normal program could do.

Unix only used user and kernel so for our early bitmap terminals, I
mapped the screen's video memory into supervisor data and set the
mode bits so you could access it with MOVE TO/FROM PREVIOUS DATA
SPACE. C didn't generate those so we had some little assembler
routines.

Given the way the PDP-11 was set up, it's hard to think of a memory
expansion scheme that wasn't a grotesque kludge so I think it was
the right decision for VAX to have a new instruction set with a mode
to run PDP-11 code, sort of like the 386's virtual 86 mode for
real mode 8086 code.  

>> That was not what customers were interested in.  There were various
>> Unix variants available for the PC, but the customers preferred using
>> DOS, which was preinstalled and did not cost extra. ...

Yup.  PC/IX was a really nice Unix port for the IBM PC and nobody was interested.

-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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#110931

From"Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com>
Date2025-03-03 11:04 -0500
Message-ID<vq4jrl$1cguk$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#110917
On 3/2/25 5:27 PM, John Levine wrote:
> According to BGB  <cr88192@gmail.com>:
>> I had thought it apparently used a model similar to the 65C816.
>>
>> Namely, that you could address 64K code + 64K data at a time, but then
>> load a value into a special register to access different RAM banks.
> 
> Not really.  The low end PDP-11's were 16 bit, 64K was it.
> 
> The larger ones had memory mapping with 8K pages, a size carefully
> chosen to be too large for paging, but too small to map whole programs.
> There were three modes, user, supervisor, and kernel, with 64K instruction
> and data in each.  The kernel changed the maps by poking values into
> I/O addresses, so it's not something a normal program could do.
> 
> Unix only used user and kernel so for our early bitmap terminals, I
> mapped the screen's video memory into supervisor data and set the
> mode bits so you could access it with MOVE TO/FROM PREVIOUS DATA
> SPACE. C didn't generate those so we had some little assembler
> routines.
> 
> Given the way the PDP-11 was set up, it's hard to think of a memory
> expansion scheme that wasn't a grotesque kludge so I think it was
> the right decision for VAX to have a new instruction set with a mode
> to run PDP-11 code, sort of like the 386's virtual 86 mode for
> real mode 8086 code.
> 
>>> That was not what customers were interested in.  There were various
>>> Unix variants available for the PC, but the customers preferred using
>>> DOS, which was preinstalled and did not cost extra. ...
> 
> Yup.  PC/IX was a really nice Unix port for the IBM PC and nobody was interested.
> 
As this (the kernel part) was my project, it was very disappointing.  I think 
IBM priced such that with DOS being "free", it had no chance.

Brian

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#110950

FromJohn Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Date2025-03-04 02:09 +0000
Message-ID<vq5nc0$lob$1@gal.iecc.com>
In reply to#110931
According to Brian G. Lucas <bagel99@gmail.com>:
>>>> That was not what customers were interested in.  There were various
>>>> Unix variants available for the PC, but the customers preferred using
>>>> DOS, which was preinstalled and did not cost extra. ...
>> 
>> Yup.  PC/IX was a really nice Unix port for the IBM PC and nobody was interested.
>> 
>As this (the kernel part) was my project, it was very disappointing.  I think 
>IBM priced such that with DOS being "free", it had no chance.

Nobody knew what the market for PC/IX was supposed to be beyond some
handwaving "if 5% if PC users buy it we'll be rich."  PC/IX could do
anything a PDP-11 running Unix could do, give or take peripherals,
but the PC market was very different from the PDP-11 market and by
that time the PDP-11 was rather long in the tooth.

-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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#110955

From"Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com>
Date2025-03-04 11:46 -0500
Message-ID<vq7alc$1ukpf$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#110950
On 3/3/25 9:09 PM, John Levine wrote:
> According to Brian G. Lucas <bagel99@gmail.com>:
>>>>> That was not what customers were interested in.  There were various
>>>>> Unix variants available for the PC, but the customers preferred using
>>>>> DOS, which was preinstalled and did not cost extra. ...
>>>
>>> Yup.  PC/IX was a really nice Unix port for the IBM PC and nobody was interested.
>>>
>> As this (the kernel part) was my project, it was very disappointing.  I think
>> IBM priced such that with DOS being "free", it had no chance.
> 
> Nobody knew what the market for PC/IX was supposed to be beyond some
> handwaving "if 5% if PC users buy it we'll be rich."  PC/IX could do
> anything a PDP-11 running Unix could do, give or take peripherals,
> but the PC market was very different from the PDP-11 market and by
> that time the PDP-11 was rather long in the tooth.
> 
Maybe everyting except for lack of memory protection.
IBM sold it as a single user system.

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#110957 — Re: PC/IX, not, Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC

FromJohn Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Date2025-03-04 21:00 +0000
SubjectRe: PC/IX, not, Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC
Message-ID<vq7pmb$1jkc$1@gal.iecc.com>
In reply to#110955
According to Brian G. Lucas <bagel99@gmail.com>:
>> Nobody knew what the market for PC/IX was supposed to be beyond some
>> handwaving "if 5% if PC users buy it we'll be rich."  PC/IX could do
>> anything a PDP-11 running Unix could do, give or take peripherals,
>> but the PC market was very different from the PDP-11 market and by
>> that time the PDP-11 was rather long in the tooth.
>> 
>Maybe everyting except for lack of memory protection.
>IBM sold it as a single user system.

The lack of memory protection turned out not to matter very much. Didn't we once
get a bug report for something that only failed after the system had been up
continuously for a year?

It didn't help that PC/IX and Unix in general had very few applications for
non-technical users. There was document processing with nroff and troff, with
our INed screen editor, but what else?

-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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#110959 — Re: PC/IX, not, Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC

From"Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com>
Date2025-03-04 17:51 -0500
SubjectRe: PC/IX, not, Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC
Message-ID<vq801d$22jsc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#110957
On 3/4/25 4:00 PM, John Levine wrote:
> According to Brian G. Lucas <bagel99@gmail.com>:
>>> Nobody knew what the market for PC/IX was supposed to be beyond some
>>> handwaving "if 5% if PC users buy it we'll be rich."  PC/IX could do
>>> anything a PDP-11 running Unix could do, give or take peripherals,
>>> but the PC market was very different from the PDP-11 market and by
>>> that time the PDP-11 was rather long in the tooth.
>>>
>> Maybe everyting except for lack of memory protection.
>> IBM sold it as a single user system.
> 
> The lack of memory protection turned out not to matter very much. Didn't we once
> get a bug report for something that only failed after the system had been up
> continuously for a year?
> 
I don't remember that one.

> It didn't help that PC/IX and Unix in general had very few applications for
> non-technical users. There was document processing with nroff and troff, with
> our INed screen editor, but what else?
> 
Which is kinda ironic since Unix was originally funded to be used by 
"secretaries" in the Bell Labs patent department.  But you are correct,
Unix was mostly used by programmers.

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#110956

Fromjgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman)
Date2025-03-04 16:53 +0000
Message-ID<memo.20250304165316.8812y@jgd.cix.co.uk>
In reply to#110931
In article <vq4jrl$1cguk$1@dont-email.me>, bagel99@gmail.com (Brian G.
Lucas) wrote:
> On 3/2/25 5:27 PM, John Levine wrote:
> > Yup.  PC/IX was a really nice Unix port for the IBM PC and nobody 
> > was interested.
> As this (the kernel part) was my project, it was very 
> disappointing.  I think IBM priced such that with DOS being "free", 
> it had no chance.

Also, timing. According to Wikipedia, PC/IX cost $900 and was released in
1984. By that time, there was a lot of business software and games
available for DOS, but presumably, very little for PC/IX? 

John 

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#110962

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-03-04 23:29 +0000
Message-ID<vq82c8$232tl$7@dont-email.me>
In reply to#110956
On Tue, 4 Mar 2025 16:53 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), John Dallman wrote:

> According to Wikipedia, PC/IX cost $900 and was released
> in 1984. By that time, there was a lot of business software and games
> available for DOS, but presumably, very little for PC/IX?

How would you have done games without being able to directly address 
screen memory? I’m sure PC/IX, being a Unix-type system, would have 
disallowed that. And X11 hadn’t even been developed yet.

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#110965

Fromjgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman)
Date2025-03-05 09:16 +0000
Message-ID<memo.20250305091604.8812z@jgd.cix.co.uk>
In reply to#110962
In article <vq82c8$232tl$7@dont-email.me>, ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence
D'Oliveiro) wrote:

> How would you have done games without being able to directly 
> address screen memory? I'm sure PC/IX, being a Unix-type system, 
> would have disallowed that.

How? 

There's no memory management hardware in an 8088, and PC/IX ran on a
basic PC/XT.

John 

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#110983

FromGeorge Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net>
Date2025-03-07 06:03 -0500
Message-ID<veklsjpgk02qdqtbc35jvjui5ufjc2dm6h@4ax.com>
In reply to#110965
On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 09:16 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), jgd@cix.co.uk
(John Dallman) wrote:

>In article <vq82c8$232tl$7@dont-email.me>, ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence
>D'Oliveiro) wrote:
>
>> How would you have done games without being able to directly 
>> address screen memory? I'm sure PC/IX, being a Unix-type system, 
>> would have disallowed that.
>
>How? 
>
>There's no memory management hardware in an 8088, and PC/IX ran on a
>basic PC/XT.


Programmatically - the compiler (and/or assembler) could disallow it.

Programmatic isolation works quite well as long as everyone plays by
the rules.  [Which, of course, is hard to enforce.]

>John 

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#111007 — Re: PC/IX, Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC

FromJohn Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Date2025-03-08 01:13 +0000
SubjectRe: PC/IX, Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC
Message-ID<vqg5kn$so6$1@gal.iecc.com>
In reply to#110983
According to George Neuner  <gneuner2@comcast.net>:
>>There's no memory management hardware in an 8088, and PC/IX ran on a
>>basic PC/XT.
>
>Programmatically - the compiler (and/or assembler) could disallow it.
>
>Programmatic isolation works quite well as long as everyone plays by
>the rules.  [Which, of course, is hard to enforce.]

The PC/IX C compiler generated small model code so it was fairly hard
to smash anything outside your data segment by accident. If you wanted
something that ran the programs you could run on a PDP-11 with Unix, it
did a really good job.  Unfortuantely, there weren't very many people
who wanted that.

-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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#110930

FromTerje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no>
Date2025-03-03 16:34 +0100
Message-ID<vq4i6a$1c8k9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#110896
Anton Ertl wrote:
> BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> writes:
>> It almost seems like they could have tried making a PDP-11 based PC.
> 
> I dimly remember that there were efforts in that direction.  But the
> PDP-11 does not even have the cumbersome support for more than 64KB
> that the 8086 has (there were PDP-11s with more, but that was even
> more cumbersome to use).
> 
> DEC also tried their hand in the PC-like business (DEC Rainbow 100).

When I was hired as the PC guy in Hydro (that Fortune-100 corporation 
with 77K employees in 130+ countries) in 1984, I took over all 
PC-related stuff (HW/SW/OS/add-on HW etc) while the guy who hired me 
kept his belowed DEC Rainbow which he felt had the better architecture:

For one thing they did not break Intel's rules about where to place the 
interrupt vectors. In hindsight this was a bad decision since 100% 
compatibility with Microsoft Flight Simulator was an absolute 
requirement at the time.

> They did not succeed.  Maybe that's the decisive difference from HP:
> They did succeed in the PC market.

For some definition of success, i.e they were sufficiently worse at PCs 
to later merge with Compaq who was the first significant vendor in the 
PC Compatible marketplace. Columbia beat both of them by half a year or 
so, but faded away a bit later.

Terje


-- 
- <Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no>
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

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#110933

Fromanton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Date2025-03-03 17:21 +0000
Message-ID<2025Mar3.182132@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
In reply to#110930
Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> writes:
>Anton Ertl wrote:
>> They did not succeed.  Maybe that's the decisive difference from HP:
>> They did succeed in the PC market.
>
>For some definition of success, i.e they were sufficiently worse at PCs 
>to later merge with Compaq who was the first significant vendor in the 
>PC Compatible marketplace.

Pfeiffer got Compaq into trouble by buying DEC and not being able to
digest it.  HP then bought Compaq and was able to digest all the
parts, leading to a successful PC business (I have no idea how much
Compaq contributed to that and how much HP did) and a successful HPE;
pretty much all of the stuff coming from/through DEC went away (I
think the Tandem legacy may still be identifiable), but maybe they
managed to keep the customers.

>Columbia beat both of them by half a year or 
>so, but faded away a bit later.

I don't think I ever heard about Columbia.  At what did they beat
Compaq and HP?

- anton
-- 
'Anyone trying for "industrial quality" ISA should avoid undefined behavior.'
  Mitch Alsup, <c17fcd89-f024-40e7-a594-88a85ac10d20o@googlegroups.com>

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#110934

FromTerje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no>
Date2025-03-03 18:51 +0100
Message-ID<vq4q76$1dpo9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#110933
Anton Ertl wrote:
> Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> writes:
>> Anton Ertl wrote:
>>> They did not succeed.  Maybe that's the decisive difference from HP:
>>> They did succeed in the PC market.
>>
>> For some definition of success, i.e they were sufficiently worse at PCs
>> to later merge with Compaq who was the first significant vendor in the
>> PC Compatible marketplace.
> 
> Pfeiffer got Compaq into trouble by buying DEC and not being able to
> digest it.  HP then bought Compaq and was able to digest all the
> parts, leading to a successful PC business (I have no idea how much
> Compaq contributed to that and how much HP did) and a successful HPE;
> pretty much all of the stuff coming from/through DEC went away (I
> think the Tandem legacy may still be identifiable), but maybe they
> managed to keep the customers.
> 
>> Columbia beat both of them by half a year or
>> so, but faded away a bit later.
> 
> I don't think I ever heard about Columbia.  At what did they beat
> Compaq and HP?

Columbia created the first ever PC compatibles (at least afaik), I 
bought a pair (one desktop and one luggable) at the same cost as a 
single IBM PC in order to develop SW for my father-in-law.

Terje

-- 
- <Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no>
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

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#110935

FromMichael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Date2025-03-03 19:53 +0200
Message-ID<20250303195312.00000bf8@yahoo.com>
In reply to#110933
On Mon, 03 Mar 2025 17:21:32 GMT
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) wrote:

> Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> writes:
> >Anton Ertl wrote:  
> >> They did not succeed.  Maybe that's the decisive difference from
> >> HP: They did succeed in the PC market.  
> >

Digital sold solid PCs in the 1990s. Some under brand DECpc, others
under brand DEC Station. Later on (after 1994) the used yet another
brand that I can not recollect. Wikipedia says that most of this
machines were not manufactured on DEC factories, but I would think that
as reseller they still got some profit.

> >For some definition of success, i.e they were sufficiently worse at
> >PCs to later merge with Compaq who was the first significant vendor
> >in the PC Compatible marketplace.  
> 
> Pfeiffer got Compaq into trouble by buying DEC and not being able to
> digest it.  HP then bought Compaq and was able to digest all the
> parts, leading to a successful PC business (I have no idea how much
> Compaq contributed to that and how much HP did)

My impression is that Compaq contribution prevailed.

> and a successful HPE;
> pretty much all of the stuff coming from/through DEC went away (I
> think the Tandem legacy may still be identifiable), but maybe they
> managed to keep the customers.
> 

They preserved VMS. Sold it some 15+ years later.

> >Columbia beat both of them by half a year or 
> >so, but faded away a bit later.  
> 
> I don't think I ever heard about Columbia.  At what did they beat
> Compaq and HP?
> 
> - anton

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#110958

FromGeorge Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net>
Date2025-03-04 16:32 -0500
Message-ID<erresjphlvmcels3njsf7vnl8jics4an65@4ax.com>
In reply to#110935
On Mon, 3 Mar 2025 19:53:12 +0200, Michael S
<already5chosen@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 03 Mar 2025 17:21:32 GMT
>anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) wrote:
>
>Digital sold solid PCs in the 1990s. Some under brand DECpc, others
>under brand DEC Station.

Was there an Intel based DECstation?  
The only ones I ever saw were MIPS based.

  <searches>

Ahh! Wikipedia says there were 3 different DECstation lines: one based
on PDP-8, annother based on MIPS, and yet another based on Intel. 
Naturally one has to scan/read the entire article to find the Intel
references.

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