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Groups > comp.arch > #117702 > unrolled thread

Styles of addressing

Started byjgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman)
First post2026-08-31 17:35 +0100
Last post2026-09-07 17:15 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 475 — 30 participants

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Contents

  Styles of addressing jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-08-31 17:35 +0100
    Re: Styles of addressing scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-08-31 17:35 +0000
      Re: Styles of addressing scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-08-31 17:48 +0000
    Re: Styles of addressing John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-08-31 17:43 +0000
      Re: Styles of addressing quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-08-31 22:20 +0000
        Re: Styles of addressing John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-09-01 16:10 +0000
          Re: Styles of addressing quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-09-01 18:01 +0000
            Re: Styles of addressing Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-09-01 11:55 -0700
              Re: Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-01 19:58 +0000
                Re: Styles of addressing Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-09-01 17:07 -0700
              Re: Styles of addressing John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-09-02 01:06 +0000
                Re: Styles of addressing anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-08 08:28 +0000
                  Re: Styles of addressing John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-09-08 13:31 +0000
                  Re: Styles of addressing Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-09 00:19 +0000
                  Re: Styles of addressing antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-09 18:21 +0000
                    Re: Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-09 18:41 +0000
                      Re: Styles of addressing scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-09 20:42 +0000
                      Re: Styles of addressing Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-09 21:45 +0000
                        Re: Styles of addressing scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-09 21:49 +0000
                        Re: Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-09 23:28 +0000
                          Re: Styles of addressing Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-10 03:45 +0000
                            Re: Styles of addressing scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-10 14:57 +0000
                      Re: Styles of addressing Paul Clayton <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2026-09-23 22:08 -0400
                        Re: Styles of addressing scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-28 15:24 +0000
              Re: Styles of addressing quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-09-02 01:31 +0000
            Re: Styles of addressing Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-02 02:44 +0000
      Re: Styles of addressing Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-02 07:45 +0000
    Re: Styles of addressing Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-31 22:32 +0000
      Re: Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-01 00:12 +0000
        Re: Styles of addressing quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-09-01 05:24 +0000
          Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-09-01 16:05 +0000
          Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing Andy Valencia <vandys@vsta.org> - 2026-09-01 10:07 -0700
            Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-01 21:17 +0000
              Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing Paul Clayton <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2026-09-02 18:59 -0400
                Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-03 01:50 +0000
                  Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing Paul Clayton <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 16:30 -0400
                    Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-09 20:50 +0000
                    Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-09 23:25 +0000
                      Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-10 14:53 +0000
                        Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-10 16:36 +0000
                        Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-09-15 08:46 -0700
                        Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-16 17:21 +0000
                          Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-09-16 10:58 -0700
                            Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-17 10:00 +0000
                              Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-09-17 20:37 +0000
                          Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-16 18:15 +0000
                          Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-16 18:59 +0000
                            Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-16 19:16 +0000
                              Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-17 00:19 +0000
                            Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-09-16 12:24 -0700
                              Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-17 00:20 +0000
                      Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing Paul Clayton <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 17:12 -0400
                      Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing Paul Clayton <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 17:26 -0400
                      Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing Paul Clayton <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 18:27 -0400
                      Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing Paul Clayton <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 20:29 -0400
                      Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing Paul Clayton <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2026-09-16 18:03 -0400
                Re: Styles of addressing Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-03 02:46 +0000
                  Re: Styles of addressing Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-05 04:26 +0000
                Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-03 14:40 +0000
                  Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-09-03 20:53 +0100
                Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-09-03 15:48 +0000
                  Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> - 2026-09-03 12:07 -0500
                    Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-03 17:33 +0000
                      Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-03 20:23 +0000
                      Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-09-03 16:44 -0400
                  Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-03 17:32 +0000
                Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-09-03 14:43 -0400
                  Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-03 20:32 +0000
                    Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-03 21:08 +0000
                      Re: 370 address sizes, Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-04 01:11 +0000
                        Re: Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-05 01:08 +0000
                          Re: Styles of addressing mas@a4.home - 2026-09-06 03:56 +0000
                          Re: Styles of addressing scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-06 13:51 +0000
                            Re: Styles of addressing kegs@provalid.com (Kent Dickey) - 2026-09-10 04:11 +0000
                              Re: Styles of addressing scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-10 14:59 +0000
                              Re: Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-10 15:16 +0000
                                Re: Styles of addressing scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-10 16:06 +0000
                                  Re: Styles of addressing anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-10 16:55 +0000
                                  Re: Styles of addressing Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 21:43 -0400
                                  Re: Styles of addressing kegs@provalid.com (Kent Dickey) - 2026-09-13 17:50 +0000
                                    Re: Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-14 00:42 +0000
                              CHERI (was: Styles of addressing) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-10 17:02 +0000
                                Re: CHERI (was: Styles of addressing) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-10 18:58 +0000
                                  Re: CHERI (was: Styles of addressing) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-10 19:01 +0000
                                    Re: CHERI Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-09-10 22:45 +0200
                                    Re: CHERI Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-09-11 16:49 -0400
                                  Re: CHERI (was: Styles of addressing) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-11 06:00 +0000
                                    Re: CHERI (was: Styles of addressing) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-11 17:50 +0000
                                      Re: CHERI (was: Styles of addressing) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-11 18:14 +0000
                                        Re: CHERI (was: Styles of addressing) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-11 21:59 +0000
                                          Re: CHERI (was: Styles of addressing) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-11 22:34 +0000
                                            Data-independent timing (was: CHERI (was: Styles of addressing) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-14 06:22 +0000
                                              Re: Data-independent timing (was: CHERI Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-09-14 10:04 -0700
                                                Re: Data-independent timing (was: CHERI scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-14 18:08 +0000
                                                Re: Data-independent timing (was: CHERI anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-14 21:35 +0000
                                    Re: CHERI (was: Styles of addressing) jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-09-12 11:31 +0100
                                      Re: CHERI (was: Styles of addressing) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-12 16:42 +0000
                                Re: CHERI (was: Styles of addressing) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-11 07:01 +0000
                                Re: CHERI (was: Styles of addressing) kegs@provalid.com (Kent Dickey) - 2026-09-13 17:21 +0000
                                  Re: CHERI (was: Styles of addressing) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-13 18:00 +0000
                                  Re: CHERI (was: Styles of addressing) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-14 06:35 +0000
                          Re: Styles of addressing EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-09-06 10:44 -0400
                            Re: Styles of addressing Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-06 14:56 +0000
                              Re: Styles of addressing EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-09-06 12:58 -0400
                                Re: Styles of addressing Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-09-06 12:04 -0700
                                  Re: Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-06 23:59 +0000
                                    Re: Styles of addressing Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-07 04:29 +0000
                                    Re: Styles of addressing David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-07 10:40 +0200
                                      Re: Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-07 18:25 +0000
                                        Re: Styles of addressing David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-07 23:10 +0200
                                          Re: Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-07 21:58 +0000
                                            Re: Styles of addressing Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-08 05:30 +0000
                                            Re: Styles of addressing David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-08 11:20 +0200
                                            Re: Styles of addressing Paul Clayton <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 12:23 -0400
                                              Re: Styles of addressing Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-10 03:47 +0000
                                        Re: Styles of addressing Josh Vanderhoof <x@y.z> - 2026-09-07 18:22 -0400
                                  Re: Styles of addressing EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-09-07 13:28 -0400
                                    Addressing Shared Stuff MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-07 18:33 +0000
                                      Re: Addressing Shared Stuff scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-08 15:48 +0000
                                        Re: Addressing Shared Stuff MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-08 20:05 +0000
                                      Re: Addressing Shared Stuff Paul Clayton <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 12:05 -0400
                                        Re: Addressing Shared Stuff jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-09-16 23:11 +0100
                                          Re: Addressing Shared Stuff MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-17 00:26 +0000
                                          Re: Addressing Shared Stuff anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-17 09:32 +0000
                                            Re: Addressing Shared Stuff jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-09-17 13:32 +0100
                                              Re: Addressing Shared Stuff Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-18 01:08 +0300
                                                Re: Addressing Shared Stuff anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-18 06:10 +0000
                                            Re: Addressing Shared Stuff MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-17 16:06 +0000
                                              Re: Addressing Shared Stuff scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-17 17:26 +0000
                                                Re: Addressing Shared Stuff MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-17 19:40 +0000
                                      Re: Addressing Shared Stuff Andy Valencia <vandys@vsta.org> - 2026-09-14 12:52 -0700
                                Re: Styles of addressing Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-06 20:25 +0000
                                  Re: Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-07 00:02 +0000
                                  Re: Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-07 00:09 +0000
                                    Re: Styles of addressing Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-07 06:17 +0000
                                Re: Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-06 23:46 +0000
                              Re: Styles of addressing Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2026-09-06 20:21 +0300
                              Re: Styles of addressing antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-08 15:08 +0000
                                Re: Styles of addressing Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-08 20:11 +0000
                                  Re: Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-09 00:35 +0000
                                    Re: Styles of addressing Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-09-09 08:19 +0200
                                      Re: Styles of addressing Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-09 10:58 +0000
                                  Re: Styles of addressing Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-10 06:16 +0000
                                    Re: Styles of addressing anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-10 17:22 +0000
                                      Re: Styles of addressing Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-09-10 22:42 +0200
                                        Re: Styles of addressing anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-11 06:32 +0000
                                      Re: Styles of addressing George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-09-10 17:02 -0400
                                        Optimization by programmers (was: Styles of addressing) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-11 06:33 +0000
                                          Re: Optimization by programmers (was: Styles of addressing) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-11 08:55 +0000
                                          Re: Optimization by programmers (was: Styles of addressing) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-11 17:54 +0000
                                            Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-11 23:19 +0200
                                              Re: Optimization by programmers MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-11 22:05 +0000
                                                Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-12 09:30 +0000
                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-12 13:23 +0200
                                                Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-12 13:18 +0200
                                            Re: Optimization by programmers (was: Styles of addressing) quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-09-12 17:09 +0000
                                          Re: Optimization by programmers (was: Styles of addressing) George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-09-11 23:25 -0400
                                            Re: Optimization by programmers (was: Styles of addressing) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-12 08:38 +0000
                                            Re: Optimization by programmers (was: Styles of addressing) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-12 09:09 +0000
                                              Re: Optimization by programmers (was: Styles of addressing) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-09-15 09:17 -0700
                                            Re: Optimization by programmers Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-09-14 16:24 +0200
                                            Re: Optimization by programmers (was: Styles of addressing) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-09-15 06:34 -0700
                                          Re: Optimization by programmers (was: Styles of addressing) quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-09-12 17:15 +0000
                                            Re: Optimization by programmers (was: Styles of addressing) jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-09-12 19:13 +0100
                                            Re: Optimization by programmers (was: Styles of addressing) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-12 18:14 +0000
                                              Re: Optimization by programmers (was: Styles of addressing) quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-09-13 03:28 +0000
                                                Re: Optimization by programmers (was: Styles of addressing) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-13 14:27 +0000
                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers (was: Styles of addressing) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-09-13 14:58 +0000
                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers (was: Styles of addressing) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-13 16:09 +0000
                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers (was: Styles of addressing) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-13 17:38 +0000
                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers (was: Styles of addressing) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-13 17:34 +0000
                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers (was: Styles of addressing) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-14 14:43 +0000
                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers (was: Styles of addressing) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-14 15:44 +0000
                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers (was: Styles of addressing) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-14 18:01 +0000
                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers Paul Clayton <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2026-09-16 13:14 -0400
                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-17 16:47 +0000
                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-17 19:38 +0000
                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-17 21:25 +0000
                                                          Re: Optimization by programmers Paul Clayton <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2026-09-21 22:10 -0400
                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-09-18 16:38 -0400
                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> - 2026-09-19 06:01 +0000
                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-19 06:25 +0000
                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-09-20 02:56 -0400
                                                          Re: Optimization by programmers John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-09-20 20:12 +0000
                                                            Microarchitectural effects on performance (was: Optimization ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-21 06:55 +0000
                                                              Re: Microarchitectural effects on performance (was: Optimization ...) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-21 17:04 +0000
                                                                Re: Microarchitectural effects on performance (was: Optimization ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-23 05:39 +0000
                                                                  Re: Microarchitectural effects on performance (was: Optimization ...) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-23 18:34 +0000
                                                                  Re: Microarchitectural effects on performance Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-09-23 13:53 -0400
                                                            Re: Optimization by programmers Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-09-21 12:48 -0400
                                                          Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-21 17:17 +0000
                                                            Re: Optimization by programmers MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-21 20:06 +0000
                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-21 23:48 +0300
                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-22 05:25 +0000
                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-09-22 14:13 -0400
                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-26 07:44 +0000
                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2026-09-22 14:48 +0300
                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-23 19:28 +0000
                                                            Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-22 05:19 +0000
                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-22 08:29 +0000
                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-23 05:40 +0000
                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-09-23 06:45 -0700
                                                            Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-22 14:32 +0200
                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-09-22 15:21 -0700
                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-23 05:23 +0000
                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-23 14:01 +0000
                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-23 16:52 +0200
                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-09-23 08:01 -0700
                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-23 10:38 +0200
                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-09-23 07:54 -0700
                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-23 18:24 +0200
                                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-09-23 11:20 -0700
                                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-23 21:24 +0200
                                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-10-02 04:10 +0000
                                                                          Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-02 10:05 +0200
                                                                          Re: Optimization by programmers Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-10-02 22:04 -0700
                                                                            Re: Optimization by programmers antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-10-03 13:13 +0000
                                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-24 11:56 +0000
                                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-24 16:35 +0200
                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-09-23 07:47 -0700
                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-09-24 07:59 -0700
                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-09-24 09:29 -0700
                                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-09-25 07:27 -0700
                                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-25 17:12 +0200
                                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-09-27 11:51 -0700
                                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-09-25 11:16 -0400
                                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-25 19:00 +0200
                                                                          Re: Optimization by programmers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-25 18:12 +0000
                                                                          Re: Optimization by programmers Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-09-26 10:25 -0400
                                                                            Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-27 13:42 +0000
                                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-27 18:18 +0300
                                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-27 18:04 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-27 19:43 +0300
                                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-09-27 10:55 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-09-27 22:12 +0200
                                                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-09-28 02:59 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Optimization by programmers Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-09-28 14:43 +0200
                                                                                            Re: Optimization by programmers Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-10-01 07:14 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-05 11:36 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2026-10-05 16:48 +0300
                                                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-10-06 23:16 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-07 13:28 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-10-07 16:43 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-07 19:57 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-10-07 22:31 +0200
                                                                                                          Re: Optimization by programmers cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-08 21:28 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-10-11 08:41 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Optimization by programmers MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-11 18:14 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Optimization by programmers Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-10-11 20:56 +0200
                                                                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-12 07:47 +0200
                                                                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-10-12 11:25 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-12 16:20 +0200
                                                                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-12 17:10 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-12 21:05 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2026-10-13 12:03 +0300
                                                                                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-13 10:27 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Optimization by programmers Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2026-10-13 20:00 +0300
                                                                                                                            Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-14 08:02 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-14 08:50 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-10-14 23:39 +0200
                                                                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers Andy Valencia <vandys@vsta.org> - 2026-10-13 09:09 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-13 16:31 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-10-13 18:12 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2026-10-13 20:02 +0300
                                                                                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-13 19:50 +0200
                                                                                                                      Comment delimiters (was: Optimization by programmers) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-10-13 23:24 -0400
                                                                                                                        Re: Comment delimiters David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-14 09:56 +0200
                                                                                                                        Re: Comment delimiters (was: Optimization by programmers) George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-10-14 12:14 -0400
                                                                                                                          Re: Comment delimiters (was: Optimization by programmers) quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-14 18:07 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Comment delimiters (was: Optimization by programmers) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-10-14 18:50 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Comment delimiters EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-10-14 15:45 -0400
                                                                                                                              Re: Comment delimiters anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-15 06:17 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Comment delimiters Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-10-16 06:35 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Comment delimiters anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-16 17:10 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Comment delimiters MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-16 18:55 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Comment delimiters George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-10-16 18:57 -0400
                                                                                                                                    Re: Comment delimiters John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-10-17 04:01 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Comment delimiters Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-10-15 15:42 -0400
                                                                                                                                Re: Comment delimiters EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-10-16 12:46 -0400
                                                                                                                                  Re: Comment delimiters anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-16 17:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: FORTRAN, was Comment delimiters John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-10-17 03:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: FORTRAN, was Comment delimiters Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-10-17 11:09 -0400
                                                                                                                                    Re: Comment delimiters EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-10-17 10:06 -0400
                                                                                                                                      Re: Comment delimiters Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-10-17 14:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: Comment delimiters EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-10-18 10:55 -0400
                                                                                                                                          Re: Comment delimiters MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-18 17:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: Comment delimiters Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-10-19 18:09 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: more Fortran, Comment delimiters John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-10-20 03:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                              Re: more Fortran, Comment delimiters Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-10-20 20:53 +0100
                                                                                                                                                Re: more Fortran, Comment delimiters Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-10-20 20:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: more Fortran, Comment delimiters scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-10-20 20:44 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: more Fortran, Comment delimiters quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-20 22:49 +0000
                                                                                                                                                      Re: more Fortran, Comment delimiters Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-10-21 23:06 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: more Fortran, Comment delimiters scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-10-22 00:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: more Fortran, Comment delimiters Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-10-22 23:43 +0100
                                                                                                                                                            Re: more Fortran, Comment delimiters MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-23 00:27 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: more Fortran, Comment delimiters Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-10-23 03:46 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: more Fortran, Comment delimiters Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-23 11:21 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                Re: more Fortran, Comment delimiters David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-23 12:49 +0200
                                                                                                                                                Re: Algol, was more Fortran, Comment delimiters John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-10-21 03:28 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Algol, was more Fortran, Comment delimiters quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-21 14:10 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Algol, was more Fortran, Comment delimiters cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-21 20:11 +0000
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Algol, was more Fortran, Comment delimiters cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-21 20:38 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Comment delimiters EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-10-17 10:06 -0400
                                                                                                                                  Re: Comment delimiters Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-10-16 20:35 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: FORTRAN, was Comment delimiters John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-10-17 03:49 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: FORTRAN, was Comment delimiters MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-17 17:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: FORTRAN, was Comment delimiters quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-18 02:03 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Comment delimiters quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-17 08:51 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Comment delimiters Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 22:54 -0400
                                                                                                                                  Re: Comment delimiters quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-19 08:39 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Comment delimiters quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-19 08:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Comment delimiters cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-20 01:43 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Comment delimiters (was: Optimization by programmers) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-14 22:43 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Comment delimiters (was: Optimization by programmers) quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-15 18:15 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-12 16:12 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-12 18:40 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-10-12 19:21 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-10-12 19:54 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-12 21:10 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-12 22:37 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: smashing constants, sort of like Optimization by programmers John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-10-13 00:35 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-10-13 18:40 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-12 15:47 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Optimization by programmers cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-12 15:41 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-12 18:37 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-12 21:07 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-12 22:35 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-17 02:03 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-07 22:25 +0300
                                                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-07 20:05 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-07 23:25 +0300
                                                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-10-07 22:36 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-08 22:05 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-10-09 16:36 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-10-07 16:49 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-10-07 22:13 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-10-08 05:46 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-10-08 12:05 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-08 22:55 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Optimization by programmers Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-28 19:58 +0300
                                                                                            Re: Optimization by programmers Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-09-29 15:44 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Optimization by programmers cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-09-30 13:57 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 17:50 +0300
                                                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-05 11:47 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-09-30 18:03 +0200
                                                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-30 17:49 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-10-01 06:58 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-10-02 20:38 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-10-02 21:23 -0700
                                                                                                      Rust (was: Optimization by programmers) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-03 11:12 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Rust (was: Optimization by programmers) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-05 12:45 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Rust (was: Optimization by programmers) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-06 08:29 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Rust (was: Optimization by programmers) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-07 18:29 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Rust (was: Optimization by programmers) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-10 14:18 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Rust (was: Optimization by programmers) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-10 17:31 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Rust (was: Optimization by programmers) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-11 15:40 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Rust Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-10-11 14:26 -0400
                                                                                                                      Re: Rust cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-12 19:14 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Rust Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-12 21:15 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Rust (was: Optimization by programmers) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-12 19:13 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Rust (was: Optimization by programmers) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-10 22:28 +0300
                                                                                                              Re: Rust (was: Optimization by programmers) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-11 09:27 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Rust (was: Optimization by programmers) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-11 22:43 +0300
                                                                                                        Re: Rust (was: Optimization by programmers) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-10-06 05:01 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: Rust (was: Optimization by programmers) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-06 15:21 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Rust (was: Optimization by programmers) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-10-07 05:41 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: Rust (was: Optimization by programmers) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-07 14:23 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Rust (was: Optimization by programmers) George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-10-06 21:18 -0400
                                                                                                            Re: Rust (was: Optimization by programmers) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-10-06 22:17 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-10-03 14:25 +0200
                                                                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-10-03 21:08 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-05 12:29 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-10-12 01:49 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-12 13:05 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-05 12:29 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-28 15:34 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-09-29 12:42 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-28 10:54 +0200
                                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-27 17:39 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-27 21:23 +0300
                                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-29 16:53 +0000
                                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-09-27 11:46 -0400
                                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-09-27 14:42 -0400
                                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-28 06:12 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-28 07:57 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-28 08:56 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-28 11:06 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-09-28 14:32 -0400
                                                                            Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-27 16:40 +0200
                                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-09-28 01:58 -0400
                                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-29 10:16 +0200
                                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-10-02 05:31 +0000
                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-24 19:52 +0000
                                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-09-24 13:52 -0700
                                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-25 11:06 +0200
                                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-25 05:43 +0000
                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-23 05:49 +0000
                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-23 10:45 +0200
                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-25 05:39 +0000
                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-25 14:36 +0000
                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-25 14:45 +0000
                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers aph@littlepinkcloud.invalid - 2026-10-04 08:15 +0000
                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-04 12:15 +0200
                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-10-04 14:16 +0000
                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-04 16:36 +0200
                                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-10-04 17:46 +0000
                                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-04 20:04 +0200
                                                                          Re: Optimization by programmers antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-10-06 02:17 +0000
                                                                            Re: Optimization by programmers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-06 10:05 +0200
                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-19 12:06 +0000
                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-19 15:56 +0000
                                                        Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-20 10:46 +0000
                                                          Re: Optimization by programmers Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-20 14:24 +0300
                                                            Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-20 11:52 +0000
                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-20 15:09 +0300
                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-21 05:27 +0000
                                                            Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-20 12:13 +0000
                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-20 15:35 +0300
                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-20 16:43 +0000
                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-21 20:23 +0300
                                                          Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-20 11:49 +0000
                                                          Re: Optimization by programmers Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-09-20 07:31 -0700
                                                            Re: Optimization by programmers Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-09-22 20:01 +0200
                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-22 20:52 +0000
                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-23 13:17 +0000
                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-09-22 16:50 -0700
                                                            Re: Optimization by programmers antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-10-03 05:28 +0000
                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-10-03 04:38 -0700
                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-10-05 13:55 +0000
                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-10-05 22:54 +0000
                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-06 06:35 +0000
                                                                  Re: Optimization by programmers Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-10-06 02:53 -0700
                                                                    Re: Optimization by programmers Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-10-06 14:55 -0400
                                                          Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-21 15:16 +0000
                                                            Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-22 06:15 +0000
                                                              Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-24 17:05 +0000
                                                                Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-26 09:18 +0000
                                                      Re: Optimization by programmers Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-09-22 19:57 +0200
                                            Re: Optimization by programmers Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-09-14 16:31 +0200
                                              Re: Optimization by programmers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-14 16:58 +0000
                                                Re: Optimization by programmers Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-09-15 06:45 -0700
                                              Re: Optimization by programmers Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-09-15 06:53 -0700
                                                Re: Optimization by programmers Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-09-15 17:21 +0200
                                              Re: Optimization by programmers quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-09-15 16:00 +0000
                                                Re: Optimization by programmers Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-09-15 19:40 +0200
                                                Re: Optimization by programmers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-18 15:58 +0000
                                      Re: Styles of addressing David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-11 10:15 +0200
                                      Re: Styles of addressing Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-11 08:54 +0000
                                        Re: Styles of addressing anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-11 10:54 +0000
                            Re: Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-06 15:56 +0000
                            Re: Styles of addressing Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-06 21:46 +0000
    Re: Styles of addressing Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-09-01 12:07 -0700
      Re: Styles of addressing MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-01 20:04 +0000
        Re: PDP-10 Styles of addressing John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-09-02 01:15 +0000
          Re: PDP-10 Styles of addressing Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-02 13:55 -0300
            Re: PDP-10 Styles of addressing John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-09-02 17:32 +0000
        Re: Styles of addressing Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-02 02:42 +0000
          Re: Styles of addressing Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-09-02 11:19 -0700
            Re: Styles of addressing Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-09-02 20:39 +0000
            Re: Styles of addressing scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-02 21:09 +0000
            Re: Styles of addressing John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-09-02 22:01 +0000
            Re: Styles of addressing anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-08 08:34 +0000
              Re: Styles of addressing Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-09 01:37 +0000
                Re: Styles of addressing Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-09-09 08:25 +0200
                  Re: Styles of addressing Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-09 08:13 +0000
                Re: Styles of addressing anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-09 08:43 +0000
                  Re: Styles of addressing Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-10 05:41 +0000
                    Re: Styles of addressing anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-10 17:16 +0000
                      Re: Styles of addressing Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-12 02:29 +0000
                        Re: Styles of addressing anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-12 07:49 +0000
              Re: Styles of addressing Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-09-11 23:30 -0700
                Re: Styles of addressing anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-12 08:23 +0000
                  Re: Styles of addressing John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-09-12 18:34 +0000
        Re: Styles of addressing Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-09-07 17:15 -0700

Page 23 of 24 — ← Prev page 1 … 21 22 [23] 24  Next page →


#118015 — Re: Optimization by programmers

FromThomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>
Date2026-09-14 16:58 +0000
SubjectRe: Optimization by programmers
Message-ID<118994e$1nh2k$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#118005
Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> schrieb:

> I studied the Itanium architecture manuals and amused myself by writing 
> asm kernels that took good advantage of the large register set, 
> including the rotating ones.
>
> Not at all a nightmare!
>
> In fact, writing x87 asm by hand, trying to keep every working variable 
> live on the 8-element stack, is significantly harder IMHO.

Stacks are hard to program for, at least for me (even large ones where
you don't get the overrun problem).

Some time ago, I wrote some rather complicated Postscript formulas.
I used two approaches:  Putting a comment with the current stack
next to each instruction, and writing a quick lex/yacc grammar
to translate infix to postfix.  (I also tried my hand at a
two-dimensional rootfinder in Postscript, but that was a bit
too much).

RPN simply does not come naturally to me.
-- 
This USENET posting was made without artificial intelligence,
artificial impertinence, artificial arrogance, artificial stupidity,
artificial flavorings or artificial colorants.

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#118035 — Re: Optimization by programmers

FromTim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Date2026-09-15 06:45 -0700
SubjectRe: Optimization by programmers
Message-ID<8633vawrv8.fsf@linuxsc.com>
In reply to#118015
Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> writes:

> Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> schrieb:
>
>> I studied the Itanium architecture manuals and amused myself by
>> writing asm kernels that took good advantage of the large register
>> set, including the rotating ones.
>>
>> Not at all a nightmare!
>>
>> In fact, writing x87 asm by hand, trying to keep every working
>> variable live on the 8-element stack, is significantly harder
>> IMHO.
>
> Stacks are hard to program for, at least for me (even large ones
> where you don't get the overrun problem).
>
> Some time ago, I wrote some rather complicated Postscript formulas.
> I used two approaches:  Putting a comment with the current stack
> next to each instruction, and writing a quick lex/yacc grammar
> to translate infix to postfix.  (I also tried my hand at a
> two-dimensional rootfinder in Postscript, but that was a bit
> too much).
>
> RPN simply does not come naturally to me.

Yes, writing code in PostScript is very different from more
conventional programming.  IME it helps to have a solid
background in functional programming, but even with that
PostScript needs a new way of thinking, and it takes some time
to develop the skills to do so.  At least it did for me.

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#118036 — Re: Optimization by programmers

FromTim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Date2026-09-15 06:53 -0700
SubjectRe: Optimization by programmers
Message-ID<86y0d2vcwu.fsf@linuxsc.com>
In reply to#118005
Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> writes:

[discussing programming in different assembly languages]

>> I don't believe that there are any other current architectures out
>> there which are as nightmarish to program in assembler as the Itanium,
>
> Huh???
>
> I studied the Itanium architecture manuals and amused myself by
> writing asm kernels that took good advantage of the large register
> set, including the rotating ones.
>
> Not at all a nightmare!
>
> In fact, writing x87 asm by hand, trying to keep every working
> variable live on the 8-element stack, is significantly harder IMHO.

If you don't mind my saying so, I think you have demonstrated
a sufficient level of experience and ability to safely drop
the H from IMHO.  At least, it seems clear to me that you are
world class in this particular area.

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#118039 — Re: Optimization by programmers

FromTerje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no>
Date2026-09-15 17:21 +0200
SubjectRe: Optimization by programmers
Message-ID<118bnq3$2i66m$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#118036
Tim Rentsch wrote:
> Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> writes:
> 
> [discussing programming in different assembly languages]
> 
>>> I don't believe that there are any other current architectures out
>>> there which are as nightmarish to program in assembler as the Itanium,
>>
>> Huh???
>>
>> I studied the Itanium architecture manuals and amused myself by
>> writing asm kernels that took good advantage of the large register
>> set, including the rotating ones.
>>
>> Not at all a nightmare!
>>
>> In fact, writing x87 asm by hand, trying to keep every working
>> variable live on the 8-element stack, is significantly harder IMHO.
> 
> If you don't mind my saying so, I think you have demonstrated
> a sufficient level of experience and ability to safely drop
> the H from IMHO.  At least, it seems clear to me that you are
> world class in this particular area.
> 
Thanks! :-)

My last job, 5 years with Cognite, where I had to learn several new 
languages, as well as a "cloud native" CI/CD development setup, gave me 
a real scare: I was certainly not "the brightest mind in the room" most 
of the time.

OTOH, the challenge was interesting and I learned a _lot_, with Rust the 
one thing that's really staying with me.

Terje
PS. Cognite really is/was pretty special, Jon Markus Lerheim (previously 
the founder of FAST) managed to hire something like 40:40:20 percent 
Math Olympiad medalists, PhDs and relevant MSc graduates, and get them 
all to move to Oslo. I am not a betting person, but I would have been 
willing to bet this was impossible.

-- 
- <Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no>
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

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#118042 — Re: Optimization by programmers

Fromquadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard)
Date2026-09-15 16:00 +0000
SubjectRe: Optimization by programmers
Message-ID<6aa96a5e.45996546@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#118005
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 16:31:01 +0200, Terje Mathisen
<terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> wrote:
>John Savard wrote:

>> I have no doubt that a good programmer can beat the original FORTRAN
>> compiler for the IBM 704 computer, despite the fact that its
>> optimization was very nearly as good as that of most optimizing
>> compilers until at least the late 1970s.

>> I would not, however, be willing to assert that one could easily find
>> human programmers who could beat an optimizing compiler... which had
>> the Itanium as its target.

>> I don't believe that there are any other current architectures out
>> there which are as nightmarish to program in assembler as the Itanium,

>Huh???

>I studied the Itanium architecture manuals and amused myself by writing 
>asm kernels that took good advantage of the large register set, 
>including the rotating ones.

>Not at all a nightmare!

>In fact, writing x87 asm by hand, trying to keep every working variable 
>live on the 8-element stack, is significantly harder IMHO.

I hadn't thought about that. None the less, I still in large part
stand by my earlier comment; ordinary programmers would have
difficulty writing good code for the Itanium, and those that can are
hard to find.
Not that the large register set is the issue. Instead, the fact that
instructions come in blocks of three, with some instructions only
being available in certain slots, is what I saw as the biggest
conceptual difficulty for an ordinary human programmer.
After all, I don't categorize the AMD Am29000 architecture (not to be
confused with the Am2900 bit-slice) as nightmarish; it also has a
large register set.

John Savard

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#118046 — Re: Optimization by programmers

FromTerje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no>
Date2026-09-15 19:40 +0200
SubjectRe: Optimization by programmers
Message-ID<118bvto$2lfb0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#118042
John Savard wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 16:31:01 +0200, Terje Mathisen
> <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> wrote:
>> John Savard wrote:
> 
>>> I have no doubt that a good programmer can beat the original FORTRAN
>>> compiler for the IBM 704 computer, despite the fact that its
>>> optimization was very nearly as good as that of most optimizing
>>> compilers until at least the late 1970s.
> 
>>> I would not, however, be willing to assert that one could easily find
>>> human programmers who could beat an optimizing compiler... which had
>>> the Itanium as its target.
> 
>>> I don't believe that there are any other current architectures out
>>> there which are as nightmarish to program in assembler as the Itanium,
> 
>> Huh???
> 
>> I studied the Itanium architecture manuals and amused myself by writing
>> asm kernels that took good advantage of the large register set,
>> including the rotating ones.
> 
>> Not at all a nightmare!
> 
>> In fact, writing x87 asm by hand, trying to keep every working variable
>> live on the 8-element stack, is significantly harder IMHO.
> 
> I hadn't thought about that. None the less, I still in large part
> stand by my earlier comment; ordinary programmers would have
> difficulty writing good code for the Itanium, and those that can are
> hard to find.
> Not that the large register set is the issue. Instead, the fact that
> instructions come in blocks of three, with some instructions only
> being available in certain slots, is what I saw as the biggest
> conceptual difficulty for an ordinary human programmer.

That was not an issue, it reminded me a lot of writing Pentium code 
where the u and v pipes have very different capabilities: You had to 
pair up your instructions very carefully to get close to 2 
instructions/cycles.

Terje


-- 
- <Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no>
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

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#118092 — Re: Optimization by programmers

Fromanton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Date2026-09-18 15:58 +0000
SubjectRe: Optimization by programmers
Message-ID<2026Sep18.175803@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
In reply to#118042
quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) writes:
>ordinary programmers would have
>difficulty writing good code for the Itanium, and those that can are
>hard to find.

Of course they are hard to find, given that nobody programs them; that
does not mean it is more difficult for humans than for the machines.

>Instead, the fact that
>instructions come in blocks of three, with some instructions only
>being available in certain slots, is what I saw as the biggest
>conceptual difficulty for an ordinary human programmer.

Looks easy to me, for both humans and machines.  So the assembler can
do it; not sure how much the assembler did, but it did at least some
of the work.

The more difficult part of the work is to schedule the instructions
beyond simple loops, in particular using the speculative features
effectively.

- anton
-- 
'Anyone trying for "industrial quality" ISA should avoid undefined behavior.'
  Mitch Alsup, <c17fcd89-f024-40e7-a594-88a85ac10d20o@googlegroups.com>

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#117948

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2026-09-11 10:15 +0200
Message-ID<1180dbb$2l1ub$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117937
On 10/09/2026 19:22, Anton Ertl wrote:
> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> writes:
>> (I think Anton likes to claim that some people think that
>> compilers are perfect.  Not sure who he means, it's certainly
>> not me :-)
> 
> If this Anton is supposed to be me, I don't think I ever made such a
> claim.
> 
> However, I have seem many cases where people made a claim that
> compilers generate better code than programmers.
> 

The word "code" can mean many things (especially "source code" and 
"object code"), "programmer" can mean many things, and "better" can mean 
a vast array of different things.  So without a lot more context or 
qualification, the claim does not mean much.  As a stand-alone claim, I 
would not say it is wrong - I would say it is "not even wrong".

And I have always thought that programmers and compilers work together - 
the compiler is a tool used by the programmer.  They do different jobs, 
and can't be sensibly compared.

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#117949

FromThomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>
Date2026-09-11 08:54 +0000
Message-ID<1180fjn$2o6v5$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117937
Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> schrieb:
> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> writes:
>>(I think Anton likes to claim that some people think that
>>compilers are perfect.  Not sure who he means, it's certainly
>>not me :-)
>
> If this Anton is supposed to be me, I don't think I ever made such a
> claim.
>
> However, I have seem many cases where people made a claim that
> compilers generate better code than programmers.

Your statement is ambiguous in several ways.  I assume you mean
"programmers using assembly" or "programmers using machine code",
although the latter has now wildly fallen out of fashion.

Do you claim that people claim

a) Compilers generate better code than programmers all the time

b) Compilers generate better code than programmers most of the time

a) is patently false.  For somebody reasonably proficient at reading
assembly, it is rather easy to spot inefficiencies in generated code
(although also easy to be wrong, measurements tops everything).

b) is true. In the vast majority of cases, it is vastly uneconomical
to revert to assembly programming. There are exceptions, for
example hand-tuned BLAS routines.

In that respect, it is interesting to read about the discussions
surrounding the very first optimizing compiler, the original
FORTRAN for the IBM 704.  "Abstracting Away The Machine" is
an excellent reference.  (Von Neumann even thought that
assemblers were a waste of machine time...)

-- 
This USENET posting was made without artificial intelligence,
artificial impertinence, artificial arrogance, artificial stupidity,
artificial flavorings or artificial colorants.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#117952

Fromanton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Date2026-09-11 10:54 +0000
Message-ID<2026Sep11.125438@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
In reply to#117949
Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> writes:
>Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> schrieb:
>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> writes:
>>>(I think Anton likes to claim that some people think that
>>>compilers are perfect.  Not sure who he means, it's certainly
>>>not me :-)
>>
>> If this Anton is supposed to be me, I don't think I ever made such a
>> claim.
>>
>> However, I have seem many cases where people made a claim that
>> compilers generate better code than programmers.
>
>Your statement is ambiguous in several ways.

Yes, sorry.  Given that I have no recent memory of such a statement, I
tried to paraphrase what these statements transported to me, but
failed in this paraphrase.  Anyway the gist was along the lines of
"Compilers are very good at optimization, better than humans".

>I assume you mean
>"programmers using assembly"

Not particularly.  It also includes optimizations at the high level.

>Do you claim that people claim
>
>a) Compilers generate better code than programmers all the time

They did not qualify it like that, but that's certainly what they
transported: "You, ordinary (but of course better than average)
programmer, don't have a chance of outdoing a compiler at
optimization, don't even think about it."

Of course, one also sees statements like (from
<1788739198-5857@newsgrouper.org>):

|On modern RISC ISAs:
|
|     for( i = 0; i < max; i++ )
|          p[i]
|
|is often faster than:
|
|     for( i = 0; i < max; i++ )
|          *p++

so overall, if one sees a statement about optimization without
empirical support, there is a good chance that it is nonsense.

>b) Compilers generate better code than programmers most of the time
[...]
>b) is true. In the vast majority of cases, it is vastly uneconomical
>to revert to assembly programming.

The more usual approach is to look at the code that the compiler
produced, and to either change the source code construct in a way that
helps the compiler overcomes its deficiencies in optimizations, or
(less frequently) to use some asm statement or routine written in
assembly language.  In the latter case, the assembly language code
written by the programmer is better than the assembly language code
generated by the compiler most of the time.

As for the former case, a recent example is shown in
<2026Sep9.153651@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>, where one programmer had
written

/* close to original */
Scheme_Object *ADD_tagged(                 
       Scheme_Object *tagged_a,            
       Scheme_Object *tagged_b)            
\{                                         
  intptr_t a = ((intptr_t)tagged_a)>>1;    
  intptr_t b = ((intptr_t)tagged_b)>>1;    
  intptr_t r;                              
  Scheme_Object *o;                        
  r = (uintptr_t)a + (uintptr_t)b;         
  o = (Scheme_Object *)                    
          ((((uintptr_t)r)<<1)|1);         
  r = ((intptr_t )o) >> 1;                 
  if (b == (uintptr_t)r - (uintptr_t)a)
    return o ;
  else
    return ADD_slow (a , b) ;
\}

which a compiler compiled into

     sarq %rdi               
     sarq %rsi               
     leaq (%rdi,%rsi), %rax  
     leaq 1(%rax,%rax), %rax
     movq %rax, %rdx         
     sarq %rdx               
     subq %rdi, %rdx         
     cmpq %rdx, %rsi         
     jne  .L6                
     ret                     
   .L6:                      
     jmp  ADD_slow@PLT       

10 instructions in the common case.

EricP suggested a better source code:

|   intptr_t a = ((intptr_t)tagged_a)>>1;
|   intptr_t b = ((intptr_t)tagged_b)>>1;
|   intptr_t r, tmp;
|   r = a + b;
|   tmp = r << 1;
|   if ((r ^ tmp) >= 0)  // check if bit r[63] == r[62]
|     return tmp | 1;
|   else
|     Add_slow (a, b);

He did not show what a compiler generates for it, but one can imagine
that it produces better code.

I have my own optimized source code:

  intptr_t a1=(intptr_t) tagged_a;            
  intptr_t b1=(intptr_t) tagged_b;            
  intptr_t r ;
                                              
  if (!__builtin_add_overflow(a1,(b1-1),&r))  
    return (Scheme_Object *)r;                
                                              
  intptr_t a = ((intptr_t)tagged_a)>>1;       
  intptr_t b = ((intptr_t)tagged_b)>>1;       
  return ADD_slow (a , b );                   

On AMD64 this compiles to:

  leaq -1(%rsi), %rax  
  addq %rdi, %rax      
  jo   .L8             
  ret                  
.L8:                   
  sarq %rsi           
  sarq %rdi            
  jmp  ADD_slow

4 instructions in the common case.

- anton
-- 
'Anyone trying for "industrial quality" ISA should avoid undefined behavior.'
  Mitch Alsup, <c17fcd89-f024-40e7-a594-88a85ac10d20o@googlegroups.com>

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#117792

FromMitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid>
Date2026-09-06 15:56 +0000
Message-ID<1788710182-5857@newsgrouper.org>
In reply to#117789
EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> posted:

> On 2026-Sep-04 21:08, MitchAlsup wrote:
> > 
> > MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> writes:
> > 
> > Looking forward::
> > 
> > a) What kind of distinction should architects make between pointers
> >     and addresses ??
> 
> My knee jerk reaction is 'none' - those are language issues.
> 
> > b) are there other ways to make capabilities cheaper without losing
> >     their protection properties ??
> > 
> > As to (a) a pointer could have some bits used to restrict access
> > rights. So, one could create a read-only pointer and use it only
> > for reading even when the PTE says it is writeable.
> 
> That is normally left to the high level language because each
> language has it own set rules, and those rules can change.
> For example, in Ada a routine argument marked as 'out' is considered
> an uninitialized variable that must be written before the routine returns,
> and must be written before it is read.
> Ada85 originally did not allow 'out' arguments to be read after writing
> as 'out' meant write-only. But that was a stupid restriction which was just
> inconvenient so they later changed it to read-after-write.
> 
> Do you really want to incorporate that into hardware?

The thought was to "const *pointer" as an argument to a subroutine,
so, the compiler could pass a pointer such that STs will fault and
do it from the calling side even when the PTE allows writes.
 
> And if a pointer has a bit marking it as read-only then what stops
> me clearing that bit? Unless you make "pointer" a first class HW type
> with its own set of instructions.

Don't want to go "that far".

> But then you also need the ability to bypass any "pointer" restrictions
> to handle things like Anton's software defined tagged integer-pointers.
> 
> This is the problem with capabilities systems - they balloon very quickly.
> As HW tries to take on ALL the capabilities different languages might
> ever require, the generic nature of them drags in inefficiencies and
> they wind up as "a jack of all trades but a master of none".

So I have seen.
 
> > As to (b) a capability might have a 64-bit pointer and a 64-bit
> > index into a capability table hidden in Guest OS address space.
> 
> And what is in that hidden indexed capability table?
> To be flexible enough to handle any data type it would be
> a pointer to a privileged routine. And there is the ballooning.
> Microcode by any other name would smell as sweet.
> 
> If programmers just used languages that checked array indexes
> then 99.999% of memory access errors would disappear.
> First make array index checks simple and cheap.
> This requires checked arithmetic for the index expression calculation,
> plus a set of simple compare-and-fault instructions various bounds checks.
> Then see what's left to address.
> 
> 

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#117802

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-09-06 21:46 +0000
Message-ID<117kmv7$2o0bv$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117789
On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 10:44:28 -0400, EricP wrote:

> If programmers just used languages that checked array indexes then
> 99.999% of memory access errors would disappear. First make array
> index checks simple and cheap. This requires checked arithmetic for
> the index expression calculation, plus a set of simple
> compare-and-fault instructions various bounds checks.

Pascal introduced the concept of subrange types, where a fixed range
of integer values (e.g. one just happening to match the bounds of an
array type in the program) can be used as the type of a variable in
its own right. Ada carries over this concept.

I remember some research showing that, with proper use, this helped to
reduce the total overhead of array bounds checking down to just a few
percent.

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#117716

FromStephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid>
Date2026-09-01 12:07 -0700
Message-ID<11777q6$23nli$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117702
On 8/31/2026 9:35 AM, John Dallman wrote:
> I've been reading about various early architectures, and realised that
> System/360 seems to have been innovative in a way that isn't talked about
> very much.
> 
> The earliest style seems to have been one-word instructions, each
> containing an opcode, modifier bits and an address. That was fine while
> memories were small, but became increasingly limiting as they grew.
> 18-bit addressing was common on 36-bit systems. Even the 64-bit Stretch
> was limited to 18 address bits.
> 
> The 360 introduced word-sized address registers, which meant that address
> space became a key feature of a computer. It had, theoretically, 32-bit
> addresses, although only 24 bits were implemented at first. Address
> registers could be loaded, using instructions longer than one word, but
> were usually used for base addresses, and not changed very often.
> 
> Was this original with the 360, or did someone else invent it first? Were
> there other styles, now abandoned?

Well, the Univac 1107 (1962) was a 36 bit word oriented system with up 
to 64K word addressing.  Its 36 bit instructions contained a 16 bit 
address field.  When the loosely upward compatible 1108 came out in 
1964, maximum memory increased to 256K words.  Addresses above 64K were 
accessed by loading a value into the low order 18 bits of a 36 bit index 
register, whose contents were added (by the hardware) to the address in 
the instruction.

So, I guess the answer to your question is Someone else invented it 
first, or at least contemporaneously.


-- 
  - Stephen Fuld
(e-mail address disguised to prevent spam)

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#117719

FromMitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid>
Date2026-09-01 20:04 +0000
Message-ID<1788293093-5857@newsgrouper.org>
In reply to#117716
Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> posted:

> On 8/31/2026 9:35 AM, John Dallman wrote:
> > I've been reading about various early architectures, and realised that
> > System/360 seems to have been innovative in a way that isn't talked about
> > very much.
> > 
> > The earliest style seems to have been one-word instructions, each
> > containing an opcode, modifier bits and an address. That was fine while
> > memories were small, but became increasingly limiting as they grew.
> > 18-bit addressing was common on 36-bit systems. Even the 64-bit Stretch
> > was limited to 18 address bits.
> > 
> > The 360 introduced word-sized address registers, which meant that address
> > space became a key feature of a computer. It had, theoretically, 32-bit
> > addresses, although only 24 bits were implemented at first. Address
> > registers could be loaded, using instructions longer than one word, but
> > were usually used for base addresses, and not changed very often.
> > 
> > Was this original with the 360, or did someone else invent it first? Were
> > there other styles, now abandoned?
> 
> Well, the Univac 1107 (1962) was a 36 bit word oriented system with up 
> to 64K word addressing.  Its 36 bit instructions contained a 16 bit 
> address field.  When the loosely upward compatible 1108 came out in 
> 1964, maximum memory increased to 256K words.  Addresses above 64K were 
> accessed by loading a value into the low order 18 bits of a 36 bit index 
> register, whose contents were added (by the hardware) to the address in 
> the instruction.

Several 36-bit machines provided 18-bit displacements with various 
kinds of base and index registers. PDP-6 and PDP-10 provided memory
reference instructions with an indirect bit, a 4-bit register speci-
fier, and an 18-bit displacement. Displacement and register were 
added; when indirection was in play, a 36-bit location was read,
and treated as a complete address. When indirect was clear, the 
load could read 9, 18, 36 bits from memory. 

This form allows for efficient indexing of matrixes when integer 
multiply is slow (and especially when the matrixes are all shaped
similarly.)

This infinite indirect capability made PDP-10 loved by people using 
them. It also caused problems when the infinite indirect timer 
"went off".

I always liked this form better than the PDP-11 and VAX "solutions".
> 
> So, I guess the answer to your question is Someone else invented it 
> first, or at least contemporaneously.
> 
> 

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#117727 — Re: PDP-10 Styles of addressing

FromJohn Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Date2026-09-02 01:15 +0000
SubjectRe: PDP-10 Styles of addressing
Message-ID<1177tb1$287f$2@gal.iecc.com>
In reply to#117719
It appears that MitchAlsup  <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> said:
>This infinite indirect capability made PDP-10 loved by people using 
>them. 

Yup.

> It also caused problems when the infinite indirect timer "went off".

Nope, no such thing.  The PDP-6 and -10 could take an interrupt before
each address calculation so if an interrupt arrived in the middle of
an indirect chain, it just started it over when the interrupt returned.
A few byte manipulation instructions updated a byte pointer and then
followed its address chain so there was a first-part-done flag that
said to skip the pointer update after the interrupt returned.  If you
got into an indirect addressing or XCT loop your program would hang, but it
wouldn't bother anyone else.

One time when I was supposed to be doing something else I wrote a little
program that made a longer and longer interrupt chain until the program
stalled, which told me how often the clock interrupted.

There were machines like the GE 635 that had such a timer but the PDP-10 didn't.
-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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#117739 — Re: PDP-10 Styles of addressing

FromKragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org>
Date2026-09-02 13:55 -0300
SubjectRe: PDP-10 Styles of addressing
Message-ID<87wlt37ftt.fsf@debian>
In reply to#117727
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes:

> It appears that MitchAlsup  <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> said:
> The PDP-6 and -10 could take an interrupt before
> each address calculation so if an interrupt arrived in the middle of
> an indirect chain, it just started it over when the interrupt returned.
> (...)
> One time when I was supposed to be doing something else I wrote a little
> program that made a longer and longer interrupt chain until the program
> stalled, which told me how often the clock interrupted.

For “interrupt chain” here we should read “indirect chain”, I think?

Kragen

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#117740 — Re: PDP-10 Styles of addressing

FromJohn Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Date2026-09-02 17:32 +0000
SubjectRe: PDP-10 Styles of addressing
Message-ID<1179mk0$8ij$1@gal.iecc.com>
In reply to#117739
According to Kragen Javier Sitaker  <kragen@canonical.org>:
>John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes:
>
>> It appears that MitchAlsup  <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> said:
>> The PDP-6 and -10 could take an interrupt before
>> each address calculation so if an interrupt arrived in the middle of
>> an indirect chain, it just started it over when the interrupt returned.
>> (...)
>> One time when I was supposed to be doing something else I wrote a little
>> program that made a longer and longer interrupt chain until the program
>> stalled, which told me how often the clock interrupted.
>
>For “interrupt chain” here we should read “indirect chain”, I think?

Quite right, indirect chain.  I might have chained XCT instructions too,
same idea.

-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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#117732

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-09-02 02:42 +0000
Message-ID<11782eq$2bobr$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117719
On Tue, 01 Sep 2026 20:04:53 GMT, MitchAlsup wrote:

> This infinite indirect capability made PDP-10 loved by people using
> them. It also caused problems when the infinite indirect timer "went
> off".

I always wondered 1) was there an upper limit to the number of levels
of indirection, and 2) what that did to the interrupt latency ...

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#117742

FromStephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid>
Date2026-09-02 11:19 -0700
Message-ID<1179pc2$31mah$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117732
On 9/1/2026 7:42 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Sep 2026 20:04:53 GMT, MitchAlsup wrote:
> 
>> This infinite indirect capability made PDP-10 loved by people using
>> them. It also caused problems when the infinite indirect timer "went
>> off".
> 
> I always wondered 1) was there an upper limit to the number of levels
> of indirection, and 2) what that did to the interrupt latency ...

I had to research this to check my memory, but on the 1100 series, the 
timer value was 100 microseconds. If an instruction took longer than 
that, it got an invalid operation interrupt/exception.  While this may 
seem long by today's standards, remember, this was the 1960s and typical 
instructions on the 1108 took 750 nanoseconds, and peripherals were a 
lot slower.  In practice, I never found it to be a problem as 
indirection was rare and I never saw more than two levels.


-- 
  - Stephen Fuld
(e-mail address disguised to prevent spam)

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#117743

FromThomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>
Date2026-09-02 20:39 +0000
Message-ID<117a1hq$34sje$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117742
Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> schrieb:
> On 9/1/2026 7:42 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Tue, 01 Sep 2026 20:04:53 GMT, MitchAlsup wrote:
>> 
>>> This infinite indirect capability made PDP-10 loved by people using
>>> them. It also caused problems when the infinite indirect timer "went
>>> off".
>> 
>> I always wondered 1) was there an upper limit to the number of levels
>> of indirection, and 2) what that did to the interrupt latency ...
>
> I had to research this to check my memory, but on the 1100 series, the 
> timer value was 100 microseconds. If an instruction took longer than 
> that, it got an invalid operation interrupt/exception.  While this may 
> seem long by today's standards, remember, this was the 1960s and typical 
> instructions on the 1108 took 750 nanoseconds, and peripherals were a 
> lot slower.  In practice, I never found it to be a problem as 
> indirection was rare and I never saw more than two levels.

See the recent assembly hall of shame posting :-)

-- 
This USENET posting was made without artificial intelligence,
artificial impertinence, artificial arrogance, artificial stupidity,
artificial flavorings or artificial colorants.

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