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Groups > comp.arch.embedded > #29611 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2020-05-06 18:19 +0200 |
| Last post | 2020-05-08 20:05 +0200 |
| Articles | 3 on this page of 43 — 13 participants |
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Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-06 18:19 +0200
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-06 16:47 +0000
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-06 19:16 +0200
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-06 18:10 +0000
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-05-06 15:10 -0400
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-05-06 16:08 -0400
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-05-06 13:22 -0700
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-05-06 22:29 -0400
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-07 15:43 +0200
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-06 22:36 +0200
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-06 20:57 +0000
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2020-05-06 23:25 +0200
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-06 21:34 +0000
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-07 10:17 +0200
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2020-05-07 18:45 +0300
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-07 10:16 +0200
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2020-05-07 21:39 +0200
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-07 21:44 +0200
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2020-05-07 12:54 -0700
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-06 22:34 +0200
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations upsidedown@downunder.com - 2020-05-07 09:13 +0300
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2020-05-07 18:47 +0300
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-07 15:51 +0000
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2020-05-08 10:09 +0300
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2020-05-07 18:00 +0200
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-07 17:17 +0000
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-07 20:23 +0200
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2020-05-08 17:33 +0200
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-08 15:56 +0000
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-08 20:31 +0200
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-08 18:53 +0000
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-08 21:32 +0200
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-09 00:13 +0200
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-05-08 18:45 -0400
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-08 22:59 +0000
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-05-09 08:29 -0400
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-09 16:10 +0200
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2020-05-09 20:15 +0300
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-10 12:37 +0200
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2020-05-09 09:52 +0200
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> - 2020-05-08 18:48 +0200
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Andrew Smallshaw <andrews@sdf.org> - 2020-05-08 17:01 +0000
Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-08 20:05 +0200
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| From | Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-05-08 18:48 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <87pnbetlt2.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> |
| In reply to | #29612 |
* Grant Edwards: > On 2020-05-06, Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> wrote: > >> In C, most of the standard library is mandatory for hosted >> implementations only, not for freestadning implementations. Still, >> I see many functions, such as memcpy() and abs() often used in >> programs for embedded systems, and see no obstacles to implementing >> them even on small systems. >> >> Should more of the standard library become mandatory for >> freestanding implementations? > > No. Just No. For use on small embedded systems, there must be a > "bare metal" option that requires no standard library functions. Why? Why would the link editor copy unreferenced functions in the standard library? My concern would that an implementation that takes this proposal seriously would make it impossible to test different implementations of these functions without patching the language implementation itself (rather just overriding the functions). So language implementations would likely continue to provide something like -ffreestanding.
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| From | Andrew Smallshaw <andrews@sdf.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-05-08 17:01 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn3fhcrbb43u.5s6.andrews@sdf.lonestar.org> |
| In reply to | #29640 |
On 2020-05-08, Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> wrote: > * Grant Edwards: > >> On 2020-05-06, Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> wrote: >> >>> In C, most of the standard library is mandatory for hosted >>> implementations only, not for freestadning implementations. Still, >>> I see many functions, such as memcpy() and abs() often used in >>> programs for embedded systems, and see no obstacles to implementing >>> them even on small systems. >>> >>> Should more of the standard library become mandatory for >>> freestanding implementations? >> >> No. Just No. For use on small embedded systems, there must be a >> "bare metal" option that requires no standard library functions. > > Why? Why would the link editor copy unreferenced functions in the > standard library? Some small embedded systems have no support for a linker of any kind - assembly inevitably proceeds to an exectuable. It was more common on older systems but you still see it on oddball architectures and "research quality" (it this context that means rough and ready) development tools. -- Andrew Smallshaw andrews@sdf.org
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| From | Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-05-08 20:05 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <r94727$8nn$1@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #29641 |
Am 08.05.20 um 19:01 schrieb Andrew Smallshaw: >> >> Why? Why would the link editor copy unreferenced functions in the >> standard library? > > Some small embedded systems have no support for a linker of any > kind - assembly inevitably proceeds to an exectuable. It was more > common on older systems but you still see it on oddball architectures > and "research quality" (it this context that means rough and ready) > development tools. > Can you give an example of a C99, C11 or C17 implementation of this type? Clearly, this would be a limitation of the implementation, not of the targeted hardware.
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