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Groups > comp.arch.embedded > #13136 > unrolled thread

AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560?

Started byJoerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
First post2013-08-19 13:14 -0700
Last post2013-09-02 22:27 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 146 — 17 participants

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  AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-08-19 13:14 -0700
    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2013-08-20 20:16 +0100
    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Vladimir Vassilevsky <nospam@nowhere.com> - 2013-08-21 14:47 -0500
      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Jim Stewart <jstewart@jkmicro.com> - 2013-08-21 13:18 -0700
      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-08-21 16:38 -0700
        Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? "Tim Williams" <tmoranwms@charter.net> - 2013-08-21 21:30 -0500
          Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-08-22 10:51 -0700
            Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-06 16:26 -0400
              Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-06 13:33 -0700
                Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-06 17:12 -0400
                  Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-06 16:10 -0700
                    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-06 23:59 -0400
                      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 08:10 -0700
                        Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 13:03 -0400
                          Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 10:59 -0700
                            Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 14:54 -0400
                              Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 12:39 -0700
                                Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 16:44 -0400
                                  Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 14:48 -0700
                                    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? "Tim Williams" <tmoranwms@charter.net> - 2013-09-07 17:10 -0500
                                      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 15:34 -0700
                                        Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Stef <stef33d@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> - 2013-09-08 00:57 +0200
                                          Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 16:56 -0700
                                            Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Stef <stef33d@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> - 2013-09-09 17:07 +0200
                                              Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-09 10:19 -0700
                                                Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> - 2013-09-09 20:27 +0100
                                                  Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-09 12:55 -0700
                                                Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Stef <stef33d@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> - 2013-09-11 09:44 +0200
                                                  Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-11 07:27 -0700
                                                    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Stef <stef33d@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> - 2013-09-13 12:42 +0200
                                                      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-14 11:56 -0700
                                    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 19:38 -0400
                                      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-07 17:39 -0700
                                        Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 23:20 -0400
                                      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-08 07:41 -0700
                      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-07 11:17 -0400
                        Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 13:23 -0400
                          Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 11:19 -0400
                            Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-08 14:03 -0400
                              Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 19:42 -0400
                                Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-08 17:18 -0700
                                  Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-09 13:13 -0400
                                    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-10 20:21 -0400
                                      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-10 23:42 -0400
                  Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2013-09-07 09:24 +0100
                    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 10:00 -0400
                      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-07 11:32 -0400
                        Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 13:35 -0400
                          Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 11:30 -0400
                            Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2013-09-09 09:56 -0400
                              Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-09-12 11:50 -0500
                                Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2013-09-12 15:06 -0400
                          Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2013-09-12 14:57 +0200
                            Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-13 00:21 -0400
                              Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2013-09-13 14:08 +0200
                                Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-13 15:15 +0100
                                Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-13 11:46 -0400
                                  Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2013-09-13 18:43 +0200
                                    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2013-09-13 19:14 +0200
                                      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-13 15:26 -0400
                                    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-13 15:24 -0400
                                Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-09-13 20:22 +0200
                      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 09:32 -0700
                        Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 13:44 -0400
                          Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 12:46 -0700
                            Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-07 13:33 -0700
                              Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 13:46 -0700
                                Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 17:05 -0400
                                  Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 15:23 -0700
                                    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 19:02 -0400
                                      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 16:45 -0700
                                        Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 23:16 -0400
                                          Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-08 08:05 -0700
                                            Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-08 14:27 -0400
                                              Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-08 12:56 -0700
                                                Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-10 23:07 -0400
                                                  Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-11 10:05 +0100
                                                  Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-11 07:49 -0700
                                                    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> - 2013-09-11 16:54 +0100
                                                      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? "Tim Williams" <tmoranwms@charter.net> - 2013-09-11 11:25 -0500
                                                      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-11 09:49 -0700
                                      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 11:40 -0400
                                    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 11:38 -0400
                                      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-08 09:34 -0700
                                        Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-08 14:29 -0400
                                          Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-08 13:01 -0700
                                            Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 16:22 -0400
                                            Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-10 23:09 -0400
                                        Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 16:15 -0400
                                          Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-08 14:20 -0700
                                            Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 18:15 -0400
                                              Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-08 15:57 -0700
                                                Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 19:46 -0400
                                                  Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-08 17:15 -0700
                                                    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 20:20 -0400
                                                      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-09 07:17 -0700
                                                        Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-09 12:17 -0700
                                                          Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-09 19:30 -0400
                                                            Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-09 16:38 -0700
                                                              Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-10 14:02 -0400
                                                                Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-10 23:41 -0400
                                                                  Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-11 00:04 -0400
                                                                Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-11 07:53 -0700
                                                                  Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-11 21:50 -0400
                                                                    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-12 09:58 -0700
                                                                      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-12 18:54 -0400
                                                          Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2013-09-12 16:17 +0200
                                                            Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-12 10:03 -0700
                                                              Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2013-09-12 19:24 +0200
                                                                Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2013-09-12 20:38 +0300
                                                                  Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-12 11:23 -0700
                                                                    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2013-09-12 22:36 +0300
                                                                      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-12 12:41 -0700
                                                                        Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2013-09-12 23:08 +0300
                                                                Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-12 11:19 -0700
                                                                  Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-12 18:59 -0400
                                                                  Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2013-09-13 13:00 +0200
                                                                    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-14 12:05 -0700
                                                              Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 16:03 -0400
                                                                Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-12 14:42 -0700
                                                                  Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-13 00:24 -0400
                                                                    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2013-09-13 14:27 +0200
                                                                      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-14 12:07 -0700
                                                                        Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-15 02:26 -0400
                                                                          Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-15 09:51 -0400
                                                                    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-13 20:06 -0400
                              Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 16:50 -0400
                                Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-07 14:33 -0700
                                  Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 19:07 -0400
                                    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-07 16:31 -0700
                                      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 23:38 -0400
                                        Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-08 20:19 -0700
                                          Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-10 23:36 -0400
                                  Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 11:46 -0400
                            Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 11:36 -0400
                      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2013-09-08 09:04 +0100
                        Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-08 13:42 -0400
                          Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2013-09-08 19:04 +0100
                            Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-08 07:29 -0400
                              Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2013-09-09 08:56 +0100
                                Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-10 23:54 -0400
                          Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 16:24 -0400
                  Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Ulf Samuelsson <ulf_samuelsson@invalid.telia.com> - 2013-09-07 20:11 +0200
                    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 15:06 -0400
                    Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 12:54 -0700
      Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Ulf Samuelsson <ulf_samuelsson@invalid.telia.com> - 2013-09-02 22:27 +0200

Page 6 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8  Next page →


#13453

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2013-09-10 23:41 -0400
Message-ID<l0oon3$fl$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#13451
On 9/10/2013 2:02 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 16:38:32 -0700, Joerg<invalid@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>> On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 12:17:34 -0700, Joerg<invalid@invalid.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Joerg wrote:
>>>>> krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 17:15:18 -0700, Joerg<invalid@invalid.invalid>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             ... Design to 85C isn't just a good idea, it's the
>>>>>>>> spec (-40C to 85C).
>>>>>>> It is a bad spec. The result of such flawed design evidences itself over
>>>>>>> and over. For example, the minivan of friends of ours would not start
>>>>>>> when parked at a mall on a hot day after more than 15mins of driving. It
>>>>>>> would (sometimes) come back to life if you let it sit for half an hour
>>>>>>> so the radiated engine heat became less. In the winter it was mostly ok.
>>>>>>> That design is IMHO junk.
>>>>>> Oh, the spec I mentioned above isn't for the engine compartment or any
>>>>>> of the ignition or safety gadgets.  It's for the noise makers.  ;-)
>>>>>> yes, that's the unpowered temperature.  Temp rise has to be added to
>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, if the radio quits on a hot day that isn't going to cause much
>>>>> grief. Happened to me but luckily within the warranty period. It's
>>>>> annoying though, leaves kind of a cheap feeling about the whole car even
>>>>> though the car doesn't deserve that. Radios are usually in the dash and
>>>>> that can exceed 80C on hot days. Then the driver hops into the car,
>>>>> turns on the stereo, pops in the Eric Clapton CD, listens to "Cocaine"
>>>>> with the volume on 10 and ... *PHUT* ... :-)
>>>>>
>>>> Question: What do you do with an FPGA in a radio?
>>>
>>> Lotsa possibilities.  So far very few real applications; too
>>> expensive. ...
>>
>>
>> I look at radio and other consumer gear a lot, mainly to spot
>> interesting ICs and other parts that I might be able to use on my
>> designs. Never seen an FPGA in there, ever.
>
> They're not common yet but they will find their way in.  Again, cost
> is the biggest barrier.  OTOH, function will eventually demand them.

Not until you can get them for $3...


>>>                ... These are not your father's Blaupunkts.  ;-)
>>
>>
>> I know, dad's Blaupunkts were better :-(
>
> Hardly.  Dad never had a 17" LCD display on his and the XM reception
> sucked.  ;-)
>
>> Still got one in the garage. In terms of large signal handling and
>> intermodulation it runs circles around just about anything made today.
>
> You want to listen to AM/FM radio stations?  What kind of nut are you,
> anyway?  ;-)


-- 

Rick

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#13456

Fromkrw@attt.bizz
Date2013-09-11 00:04 -0400
Message-ID<6sqv29pgc3bfm08mnn4tbpd84dfb1g3ncp@4ax.com>
In reply to#13453
On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 23:41:47 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 9/10/2013 2:02 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>> On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 16:38:32 -0700, Joerg<invalid@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 12:17:34 -0700, Joerg<invalid@invalid.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Joerg wrote:
>>>>>> krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 17:15:18 -0700, Joerg<invalid@invalid.invalid>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>             ... Design to 85C isn't just a good idea, it's the
>>>>>>>>> spec (-40C to 85C).
>>>>>>>> It is a bad spec. The result of such flawed design evidences itself over
>>>>>>>> and over. For example, the minivan of friends of ours would not start
>>>>>>>> when parked at a mall on a hot day after more than 15mins of driving. It
>>>>>>>> would (sometimes) come back to life if you let it sit for half an hour
>>>>>>>> so the radiated engine heat became less. In the winter it was mostly ok.
>>>>>>>> That design is IMHO junk.
>>>>>>> Oh, the spec I mentioned above isn't for the engine compartment or any
>>>>>>> of the ignition or safety gadgets.  It's for the noise makers.  ;-)
>>>>>>> yes, that's the unpowered temperature.  Temp rise has to be added to
>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok, if the radio quits on a hot day that isn't going to cause much
>>>>>> grief. Happened to me but luckily within the warranty period. It's
>>>>>> annoying though, leaves kind of a cheap feeling about the whole car even
>>>>>> though the car doesn't deserve that. Radios are usually in the dash and
>>>>>> that can exceed 80C on hot days. Then the driver hops into the car,
>>>>>> turns on the stereo, pops in the Eric Clapton CD, listens to "Cocaine"
>>>>>> with the volume on 10 and ... *PHUT* ... :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>> Question: What do you do with an FPGA in a radio?
>>>>
>>>> Lotsa possibilities.  So far very few real applications; too
>>>> expensive. ...
>>>
>>>
>>> I look at radio and other consumer gear a lot, mainly to spot
>>> interesting ICs and other parts that I might be able to use on my
>>> designs. Never seen an FPGA in there, ever.
>>
>> They're not common yet but they will find their way in.  Again, cost
>> is the biggest barrier.  OTOH, function will eventually demand them.
>
>Not until you can get them for $3...

Good Lord, you sure are a clueless twit.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#13462

FromJoerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-09-11 07:53 -0700
Message-ID<b9bef9F64fgU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#13451
krw@attt.bizz wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 16:38:32 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
> 
>> krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>> On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 12:17:34 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Joerg wrote:
>>>>> krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 17:15:18 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>            ... Design to 85C isn't just a good idea, it's the
>>>>>>>> spec (-40C to 85C).
>>>>>>> It is a bad spec. The result of such flawed design evidences itself over
>>>>>>> and over. For example, the minivan of friends of ours would not start
>>>>>>> when parked at a mall on a hot day after more than 15mins of driving. It
>>>>>>> would (sometimes) come back to life if you let it sit for half an hour
>>>>>>> so the radiated engine heat became less. In the winter it was mostly ok.
>>>>>>> That design is IMHO junk.
>>>>>> Oh, the spec I mentioned above isn't for the engine compartment or any
>>>>>> of the ignition or safety gadgets.  It's for the noise makers.  ;-)
>>>>>> yes, that's the unpowered temperature.  Temp rise has to be added to
>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, if the radio quits on a hot day that isn't going to cause much
>>>>> grief. Happened to me but luckily within the warranty period. It's
>>>>> annoying though, leaves kind of a cheap feeling about the whole car even
>>>>> though the car doesn't deserve that. Radios are usually in the dash and
>>>>> that can exceed 80C on hot days. Then the driver hops into the car,
>>>>> turns on the stereo, pops in the Eric Clapton CD, listens to "Cocaine"
>>>>> with the volume on 10 and ... *PHUT* ... :-)
>>>>>
>>>> Question: What do you do with an FPGA in a radio?
>>> Lotsa possibilities.  So far very few real applications; too
>>> expensive. ...
>>
>> I look at radio and other consumer gear a lot, mainly to spot
>> interesting ICs and other parts that I might be able to use on my
>> designs. Never seen an FPGA in there, ever.
> 
> They're not common yet but they will find their way in.  Again, cost
> is the biggest barrier.  OTOH, function will eventually demand them.
> 
>>>               ... These are not your father's Blaupunkts.  ;-)
>>
>> I know, dad's Blaupunkts were better :-(
> 
> Hardly.  Dad never had a 17" LCD display on his and the XM reception
> sucked.  ;-)
> 

Those things aren't important to me. What is importnat to me is large
signal handling. For example, the new radios fall apart on the Bass Lake
Grade on Hwy 50 because there are all the TV towers for the valley. The
Blaupunkt doesn't fall apart.


>> Still got one in the garage. In terms of large signal handling and
>> intermodulation it runs circles around just about anything made today.
> 
> You want to listen to AM/FM radio stations?  What kind of nut are you,
> anyway?  ;-)


I actually still listen to AM a lot. Oh, and I do not have a smart phone :-)

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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#13489

Fromkrw@attt.bizz
Date2013-09-11 21:50 -0400
Message-ID<f57239hd4us7nlp110935l537icctdh4qd@4ax.com>
In reply to#13462
On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 07:53:16 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>> On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 16:38:32 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 12:17:34 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Joerg wrote:
>>>>>> krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 17:15:18 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>            ... Design to 85C isn't just a good idea, it's the
>>>>>>>>> spec (-40C to 85C).
>>>>>>>> It is a bad spec. The result of such flawed design evidences itself over
>>>>>>>> and over. For example, the minivan of friends of ours would not start
>>>>>>>> when parked at a mall on a hot day after more than 15mins of driving. It
>>>>>>>> would (sometimes) come back to life if you let it sit for half an hour
>>>>>>>> so the radiated engine heat became less. In the winter it was mostly ok.
>>>>>>>> That design is IMHO junk.
>>>>>>> Oh, the spec I mentioned above isn't for the engine compartment or any
>>>>>>> of the ignition or safety gadgets.  It's for the noise makers.  ;-)
>>>>>>> yes, that's the unpowered temperature.  Temp rise has to be added to
>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok, if the radio quits on a hot day that isn't going to cause much
>>>>>> grief. Happened to me but luckily within the warranty period. It's
>>>>>> annoying though, leaves kind of a cheap feeling about the whole car even
>>>>>> though the car doesn't deserve that. Radios are usually in the dash and
>>>>>> that can exceed 80C on hot days. Then the driver hops into the car,
>>>>>> turns on the stereo, pops in the Eric Clapton CD, listens to "Cocaine"
>>>>>> with the volume on 10 and ... *PHUT* ... :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>> Question: What do you do with an FPGA in a radio?
>>>> Lotsa possibilities.  So far very few real applications; too
>>>> expensive. ...
>>>
>>> I look at radio and other consumer gear a lot, mainly to spot
>>> interesting ICs and other parts that I might be able to use on my
>>> designs. Never seen an FPGA in there, ever.
>> 
>> They're not common yet but they will find their way in.  Again, cost
>> is the biggest barrier.  OTOH, function will eventually demand them.
>> 
>>>>               ... These are not your father's Blaupunkts.  ;-)
>>>
>>> I know, dad's Blaupunkts were better :-(
>> 
>> Hardly.  Dad never had a 17" LCD display on his and the XM reception
>> sucked.  ;-)
>> 
>
>Those things aren't important to me. What is importnat to me is large
>signal handling. For example, the new radios fall apart on the Bass Lake
>Grade on Hwy 50 because there are all the TV towers for the valley. The
>Blaupunkt doesn't fall apart.

The reality is that these things are important to the vast majority of
consumers, therefore customers.  Your wishes don't make a significant
market.

>>> Still got one in the garage. In terms of large signal handling and
>>> intermodulation it runs circles around just about anything made today.
>> 
>> You want to listen to AM/FM radio stations?  What kind of nut are you,
>> anyway?  ;-)
>
>
>I actually still listen to AM a lot. Oh, and I do not have a smart phone :-)

So do I, actually, but also XM, now (very little FM - decent reception
area is too small to bother).  I also use an MP3 player and I'd like
to pipe my smart phone's navi through it, but it's broken (designed
broken by Microsoft).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#13502

FromJoerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-09-12 09:58 -0700
Message-ID<b9ea5tFoc90U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#13489
krw@attt.bizz wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 07:53:16 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
> 
>> krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>> On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 16:38:32 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 12:17:34 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Joerg wrote:
>>>>>>> krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 17:15:18 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>            ... Design to 85C isn't just a good idea, it's the
>>>>>>>>>> spec (-40C to 85C).
>>>>>>>>> It is a bad spec. The result of such flawed design evidences itself over
>>>>>>>>> and over. For example, the minivan of friends of ours would not start
>>>>>>>>> when parked at a mall on a hot day after more than 15mins of driving. It
>>>>>>>>> would (sometimes) come back to life if you let it sit for half an hour
>>>>>>>>> so the radiated engine heat became less. In the winter it was mostly ok.
>>>>>>>>> That design is IMHO junk.
>>>>>>>> Oh, the spec I mentioned above isn't for the engine compartment or any
>>>>>>>> of the ignition or safety gadgets.  It's for the noise makers.  ;-)
>>>>>>>> yes, that's the unpowered temperature.  Temp rise has to be added to
>>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ok, if the radio quits on a hot day that isn't going to cause much
>>>>>>> grief. Happened to me but luckily within the warranty period. It's
>>>>>>> annoying though, leaves kind of a cheap feeling about the whole car even
>>>>>>> though the car doesn't deserve that. Radios are usually in the dash and
>>>>>>> that can exceed 80C on hot days. Then the driver hops into the car,
>>>>>>> turns on the stereo, pops in the Eric Clapton CD, listens to "Cocaine"
>>>>>>> with the volume on 10 and ... *PHUT* ... :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Question: What do you do with an FPGA in a radio?
>>>>> Lotsa possibilities.  So far very few real applications; too
>>>>> expensive. ...
>>>> I look at radio and other consumer gear a lot, mainly to spot
>>>> interesting ICs and other parts that I might be able to use on my
>>>> designs. Never seen an FPGA in there, ever.
>>> They're not common yet but they will find their way in.  Again, cost
>>> is the biggest barrier.  OTOH, function will eventually demand them.
>>>
>>>>>               ... These are not your father's Blaupunkts.  ;-)
>>>> I know, dad's Blaupunkts were better :-(
>>> Hardly.  Dad never had a 17" LCD display on his and the XM reception
>>> sucked.  ;-)
>>>
>> Those things aren't important to me. What is importnat to me is large
>> signal handling. For example, the new radios fall apart on the Bass Lake
>> Grade on Hwy 50 because there are all the TV towers for the valley. The
>> Blaupunkt doesn't fall apart.
> 
> The reality is that these things are important to the vast majority of
> consumers, therefore customers.  Your wishes don't make a significant
> market.
> 

Vast majority = GUM :-)

What matters is a sticker with very high PMPO number on there and lots
of blue LEDs.

Since new radios are mostly junk I haven't bought one in over 20 years
except a new living room stereo. And only because SWMBO kept complaining
that the old (well running ...) Kenwood tower was too large and "ugly".
Boy did I regret that, the new stereo is completely useless on the AM band.


>>>> Still got one in the garage. In terms of large signal handling and
>>>> intermodulation it runs circles around just about anything made today.
>>> You want to listen to AM/FM radio stations?  What kind of nut are you,
>>> anyway?  ;-)
>>
>> I actually still listen to AM a lot. Oh, and I do not have a smart phone :-)
> 
> So do I, actually, but also XM, now (very little FM - decent reception
> area is too small to bother).  I also use an MP3 player and I'd like
> to pipe my smart phone's navi through it, but it's broken (designed
> broken by Microsoft).


I have yet to migrate into that sort of gear. Didn't have a need yet.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#13520

Fromkrw@attt.bizz
Date2013-09-12 18:54 -0400
Message-ID<vch4395ohngeqaq09j47kqo19301dnnbui@4ax.com>
In reply to#13502
On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 09:58:33 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 07:53:16 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 16:38:32 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 12:17:34 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joerg wrote:
>>>>>>>> krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 17:15:18 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>            ... Design to 85C isn't just a good idea, it's the
>>>>>>>>>>> spec (-40C to 85C).
>>>>>>>>>> It is a bad spec. The result of such flawed design evidences itself over
>>>>>>>>>> and over. For example, the minivan of friends of ours would not start
>>>>>>>>>> when parked at a mall on a hot day after more than 15mins of driving. It
>>>>>>>>>> would (sometimes) come back to life if you let it sit for half an hour
>>>>>>>>>> so the radiated engine heat became less. In the winter it was mostly ok.
>>>>>>>>>> That design is IMHO junk.
>>>>>>>>> Oh, the spec I mentioned above isn't for the engine compartment or any
>>>>>>>>> of the ignition or safety gadgets.  It's for the noise makers.  ;-)
>>>>>>>>> yes, that's the unpowered temperature.  Temp rise has to be added to
>>>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ok, if the radio quits on a hot day that isn't going to cause much
>>>>>>>> grief. Happened to me but luckily within the warranty period. It's
>>>>>>>> annoying though, leaves kind of a cheap feeling about the whole car even
>>>>>>>> though the car doesn't deserve that. Radios are usually in the dash and
>>>>>>>> that can exceed 80C on hot days. Then the driver hops into the car,
>>>>>>>> turns on the stereo, pops in the Eric Clapton CD, listens to "Cocaine"
>>>>>>>> with the volume on 10 and ... *PHUT* ... :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Question: What do you do with an FPGA in a radio?
>>>>>> Lotsa possibilities.  So far very few real applications; too
>>>>>> expensive. ...
>>>>> I look at radio and other consumer gear a lot, mainly to spot
>>>>> interesting ICs and other parts that I might be able to use on my
>>>>> designs. Never seen an FPGA in there, ever.
>>>> They're not common yet but they will find their way in.  Again, cost
>>>> is the biggest barrier.  OTOH, function will eventually demand them.
>>>>
>>>>>>               ... These are not your father's Blaupunkts.  ;-)
>>>>> I know, dad's Blaupunkts were better :-(
>>>> Hardly.  Dad never had a 17" LCD display on his and the XM reception
>>>> sucked.  ;-)
>>>>
>>> Those things aren't important to me. What is importnat to me is large
>>> signal handling. For example, the new radios fall apart on the Bass Lake
>>> Grade on Hwy 50 because there are all the TV towers for the valley. The
>>> Blaupunkt doesn't fall apart.
>> 
>> The reality is that these things are important to the vast majority of
>> consumers, therefore customers.  Your wishes don't make a significant
>> market.
>> 
>
>Vast majority = GUM :-)
>
>What matters is a sticker with very high PMPO number on there and lots
>of blue LEDs.

Blue LEDs are *so* last century.  The 17" color LCD display is where
it's at.

>Since new radios are mostly junk I haven't bought one in over 20 years
>except a new living room stereo. And only because SWMBO kept complaining
>that the old (well running ...) Kenwood tower was too large and "ugly".
>Boy did I regret that, the new stereo is completely useless on the AM band.

Ours is likely 10Y).  No reason to buy a new one, it's rarely used.
>
>>>>> Still got one in the garage. In terms of large signal handling and
>>>>> intermodulation it runs circles around just about anything made today.
>>>> You want to listen to AM/FM radio stations?  What kind of nut are you,
>>>> anyway?  ;-)
>>>
>>> I actually still listen to AM a lot. Oh, and I do not have a smart phone :-)
>> 
>> So do I, actually, but also XM, now (very little FM - decent reception
>> area is too small to bother).  I also use an MP3 player and I'd like
>> to pipe my smart phone's navi through it, but it's broken (designed
>> broken by Microsoft).
>
>
>I have yet to migrate into that sort of gear. Didn't have a need yet.

You're just a stubborn old geezer.  ;-)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#13498

FromPiotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil>
Date2013-09-12 16:17 +0200
Message-ID<l0sido$ul3$1@node1.news.atman.pl>
In reply to#13437
Joerg wrote:

> Question: What do you do with an FPGA in a radio?

As a matter of fact, it is one of the best places to use an FPGA. :-)
SDR with FPGA reconfiguration capabilities is the ideal solution.
Not for a regular FM noisemaker, though...

	Best regards, Piotr

*) It was exactly the only time in my life when I used an FPGA.
+ a 14-bit@65MHz Analog Devices ADC + 104 MHz DAC.

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#13503

FromJoerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-09-12 10:03 -0700
Message-ID<b9eafqFoe9qU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#13498
Piotr Wyderski wrote:
> Joerg wrote:
> 
>> Question: What do you do with an FPGA in a radio?
> 
> As a matter of fact, it is one of the best places to use an FPGA. :-)
> SDR with FPGA reconfiguration capabilities is the ideal solution.
> Not for a regular FM noisemaker, though...
> 
>     Best regards, Piotr
> 
> *) It was exactly the only time in my life when I used an FPGA.
> + a 14-bit@65MHz Analog Devices ADC + 104 MHz DAC.
> 

It's going to be a tough sell for a radio. Even if they found one for $3
that's too much and they also can't stomach the 10sec to download the
compiled data in production.

Everything has to fit into the $149.95 sale price at the auto parts
place, with fat profit margins for everyone and their middlemen,
speakers, wires, neon-colored huge window sticker, a discount coupon for
installation, free coffee and free waffles :-)

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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#13504

FromPiotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil>
Date2013-09-12 19:24 +0200
Message-ID<l0stcr$9kr$1@node2.news.atman.pl>
In reply to#13503
Joerg wrote:

> It's going to be a tough sell for a radio.

A car radio? Well, there's nothing to reconfigure, maybe
except of the station. :-) It had to be a homebrew wideband
every-conceivable-modulation-capable scanner. It works to
some extent at the hardware level but I've kind of lost my
interest in SDR to finish the software side. Read: got married. ;-)

	Best regards, Piotr

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#13505

FromTauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid>
Date2013-09-12 20:38 +0300
Message-ID<l0su6n$ofm$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#13504
On 12.9.13 8:24 , Piotr Wyderski wrote:
> Joerg wrote:
>
>> It's going to be a tough sell for a radio.
>
> A car radio? Well, there's nothing to reconfigure, maybe
> except of the station. :-) It had to be a homebrew wideband
> every-conceivable-modulation-capable scanner. It works to
> some extent at the hardware level but I've kind of lost my
> interest in SDR to finish the software side. Read: got married. ;-)
>
>      Best regards, Piotr
>

That's the right attitude: Forget radio, you have better things to do.

-- 

-Tauno (married for 45 years)

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#13507

FromJoerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-09-12 11:23 -0700
Message-ID<b9ef50Fpcc9U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#13505
Tauno Voipio wrote:
> On 12.9.13 8:24 , Piotr Wyderski wrote:
>> Joerg wrote:
>>
>>> It's going to be a tough sell for a radio.
>>
>> A car radio? Well, there's nothing to reconfigure, maybe
>> except of the station. :-) It had to be a homebrew wideband
>> every-conceivable-modulation-capable scanner. It works to
>> some extent at the hardware level but I've kind of lost my
>> interest in SDR to finish the software side. Read: got married. ;-)
>>
>>      Best regards, Piotr
>>
> 
> That's the right attitude: Forget radio, you have better things to do.
> 

But those have serious financial consequences down the road. Diapers,
braces, tuition costs, driver license, higher car insurance premiums,
the family car wrapped around a power pole, car insurance going up some
more because of that, and so on.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#13509

FromTauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid>
Date2013-09-12 22:36 +0300
Message-ID<l0t53k$3fe$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#13507
On 12.9.13 9:23 , Joerg wrote:
> Tauno Voipio wrote:
>> On 12.9.13 8:24 , Piotr Wyderski wrote:
>>> Joerg wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's going to be a tough sell for a radio.
>>>
>>> A car radio? Well, there's nothing to reconfigure, maybe
>>> except of the station. :-) It had to be a homebrew wideband
>>> every-conceivable-modulation-capable scanner. It works to
>>> some extent at the hardware level but I've kind of lost my
>>> interest in SDR to finish the software side. Read: got married. ;-)
>>>
>>>       Best regards, Piotr
>>>
>>
>> That's the right attitude: Forget radio, you have better things to do.
>>
>
> But those have serious financial consequences down the road. Diapers,
> braces, tuition costs, driver license, higher car insurance premiums,
> the family car wrapped around a power pole, car insurance going up some
> more because of that, and so on.
>

Yep - but that's a blunder everybody has to do self.

-- 

-T.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#13511

FromJoerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-09-12 12:41 -0700
Message-ID<b9ejmrFqckqU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#13509
Tauno Voipio wrote:
> On 12.9.13 9:23 , Joerg wrote:
>> Tauno Voipio wrote:
>>> On 12.9.13 8:24 , Piotr Wyderski wrote:
>>>> Joerg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It's going to be a tough sell for a radio.
>>>>
>>>> A car radio? Well, there's nothing to reconfigure, maybe
>>>> except of the station. :-) It had to be a homebrew wideband
>>>> every-conceivable-modulation-capable scanner. It works to
>>>> some extent at the hardware level but I've kind of lost my
>>>> interest in SDR to finish the software side. Read: got married. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>       Best regards, Piotr
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's the right attitude: Forget radio, you have better things to do.
>>>
>>
>> But those have serious financial consequences down the road. Diapers,
>> braces, tuition costs, driver license, higher car insurance premiums,
>> the family car wrapped around a power pole, car insurance going up some
>> more because of that, and so on.
>>
> 
> Yep - but that's a blunder everybody has to do self.
> 

So according to that we'd both be results of blunders? :-)

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#13514

FromTauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid>
Date2013-09-12 23:08 +0300
Message-ID<l0t6vq$f6e$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#13511
On 12.9.13 10:41 , Joerg wrote:
> Tauno Voipio wrote:
>> On 12.9.13 9:23 , Joerg wrote:
>>> Tauno Voipio wrote:
>>>> On 12.9.13 8:24 , Piotr Wyderski wrote:
>>>>> Joerg wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It's going to be a tough sell for a radio.
>>>>>
>>>>> A car radio? Well, there's nothing to reconfigure, maybe
>>>>> except of the station. :-) It had to be a homebrew wideband
>>>>> every-conceivable-modulation-capable scanner. It works to
>>>>> some extent at the hardware level but I've kind of lost my
>>>>> interest in SDR to finish the software side. Read: got married. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>        Best regards, Piotr
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's the right attitude: Forget radio, you have better things to do.
>>>>
>>>
>>> But those have serious financial consequences down the road. Diapers,
>>> braces, tuition costs, driver license, higher car insurance premiums,
>>> the family car wrapped around a power pole, car insurance going up some
>>> more because of that, and so on.
>>>
>>
>> Yep - but that's a blunder everybody has to do self.
>>
>
> So according to that we'd both be results of blunders? :-)
>

Yes - and winners, about 1 to a few hundreds of millions in the great 
race of Nature.

-- 

-T.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#13506

FromJoerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-09-12 11:19 -0700
Message-ID<b9eetqFpcc9U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#13504
Piotr Wyderski wrote:
> Joerg wrote:
> 
>> It's going to be a tough sell for a radio.
> 
> A car radio? Well, there's nothing to reconfigure, maybe
> except of the station. :-) 


But wait, there's more. Blue blinkenlights, yellow blinkenlights. When
we rented a Mustang I thought I'd stepped into a disco.


>                    ... It had to be a homebrew wideband
> every-conceivable-modulation-capable scanner. It works to
> some extent at the hardware level but I've kind of lost my
> interest in SDR to finish the software side. Read: got married. ;-)
> 

Oh. You, too? :-)

My ham radio days are more or less over for the same reason but maybe
I'll pick it up again when I gradually retire. Some day. But first I
want to get back into beer brewing.

I never had much fun with SDR because it's expensive and generally
inferior to the classic circuits when it comes to performance. I do now
have one spectrum analyzer (the Signalhound) that is basically an SDR.
But that is because I need it for my job, not for fun.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#13521

Fromkrw@attt.bizz
Date2013-09-12 18:59 -0400
Message-ID<mmh4399ujd0o2uhnboddqhukgb3qckc7mf@4ax.com>
In reply to#13506
On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 11:19:31 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>Piotr Wyderski wrote:
>> Joerg wrote:
>> 
>>> It's going to be a tough sell for a radio.
>> 
>> A car radio? Well, there's nothing to reconfigure, maybe
>> except of the station. :-) 
>
>
>But wait, there's more. Blue blinkenlights, yellow blinkenlights. When
>we rented a Mustang I thought I'd stepped into a disco.

Our Mustang's instrument cluster can be color coordinated.  It's
something to do while driving down the road, I suppose.

>>                    ... It had to be a homebrew wideband
>> every-conceivable-modulation-capable scanner. It works to
>> some extent at the hardware level but I've kind of lost my
>> interest in SDR to finish the software side. Read: got married. ;-)
>> 
>
>Oh. You, too? :-)
>
>My ham radio days are more or less over for the same reason but maybe
>I'll pick it up again when I gradually retire. Some day. But first I
>want to get back into beer brewing.

First things first!

>I never had much fun with SDR because it's expensive and generally
>inferior to the classic circuits when it comes to performance. I do now
>have one spectrum analyzer (the Signalhound) that is basically an SDR.
>But that is because I need it for my job, not for fun.

That's sorta the way I feel about the whole topic.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#13535

FromPiotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil>
Date2013-09-13 13:00 +0200
Message-ID<l0ur7u$822$1@node1.news.atman.pl>
In reply to#13506
Joerg wrote:

> But wait, there's more. Blue blinkenlights, yellow blinkenlights.

Sure you need them! A friend of my brother produces and sells some
simple ultrasound marten repelling devices. The sales went through
the roof when he added a blinking LED to the box. So blinking is of
crucial importance. :-)

> I never had much fun with SDR because it's expensive

You calculate costs differently when it's a hobby project.
I.e. your time is basically free and the parts are expensive,
which is exactly the oposite of professional prototyping.

> and generally inferior to the classic circuits when it comes to performance.

Why should it be? The RF front-end is mostly the same.
What is the difference between feeding an ADC and feeding
an I/Q demodulator?

> I do now have one spectrum analyzer (the Signalhound) that is basically an SDR.

I think most (or at least a significant fraction of) the modern
radio receivers is a form of SDR. I mean the radios in the cell
phones. You have a powerful CPU on board, often with DSP capabilities
like the NEON instruction set, so all you need to do is to build
a homodyne and move everything else to the digital domain. FM
demodulation, stereo and RDS decoding -- all that is easy.
All the PC TV USB dongles also work on this principle.

In my design I also moved the IF filtering to the FPGA.
It was so much easier to build a digital filter with
configurable passband than to do it the old school way...

	Best regards, Piotr

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#13583

FromJoerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-09-14 12:05 -0700
Message-ID<b9jqbrFskevU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#13535
Piotr Wyderski wrote:
> Joerg wrote:
> 
>> But wait, there's more. Blue blinkenlights, yellow blinkenlights.
> 
> Sure you need them! A friend of my brother produces and sells some
> simple ultrasound marten repelling devices. The sales went through
> the roof when he added a blinking LED to the box. So blinking is of
> crucial importance. :-)
> 

Oh yeah :-)


>> I never had much fun with SDR because it's expensive
> 
> You calculate costs differently when it's a hobby project.
> I.e. your time is basically free and the parts are expensive,
> which is exactly the oposite of professional prototyping.
> 

I am usually a cheapskate when it comes to hobby. Not because of budget
issues like I had when I was a kid but because I like finding a real
McGyver solution.


>> and generally inferior to the classic circuits when it comes to
>> performance.
> 
> Why should it be? The RF front-end is mostly the same.
> What is the difference between feeding an ADC and feeding
> an I/Q demodulator?
> 

My gear mostly has nice 8-pole crystal filters. Neither ADC nor I/Q
demodulator can (so far) touch that when it comes to large signal
handling. On shortwave the only fence between you and a plethora of
close-by noise is this filter.


>> I do now have one spectrum analyzer (the Signalhound) that is
>> basically an SDR.
> 
> I think most (or at least a significant fraction of) the modern
> radio receivers is a form of SDR. I mean the radios in the cell
> phones. You have a powerful CPU on board, often with DSP capabilities
> like the NEON instruction set, so all you need to do is to build
> a homodyne and move everything else to the digital domain. FM
> demodulation, stereo and RDS decoding -- all that is easy.
> All the PC TV USB dongles also work on this principle.
> 

Even modern ham radio gear is like that. Which is why I prefer the older
rigs.


> In my design I also moved the IF filtering to the FPGA.
> It was so much easier to build a digital filter with
> configurable passband than to do it the old school way...
> 

Well, head to the shortwave band on a very busy day and compare it to an
NRD-515, a Drake TR-7 or something similar. That's where the rubber
really meets the road.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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#13513

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2013-09-12 16:03 -0400
Message-ID<l0t6fg$bqm$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#13503
On 9/12/2013 1:03 PM, Joerg wrote:
> Piotr Wyderski wrote:
>> Joerg wrote:
>>
>>> Question: What do you do with an FPGA in a radio?
>>
>> As a matter of fact, it is one of the best places to use an FPGA. :-)
>> SDR with FPGA reconfiguration capabilities is the ideal solution.
>> Not for a regular FM noisemaker, though...
>>
>>      Best regards, Piotr
>>
>> *) It was exactly the only time in my life when I used an FPGA.
>> + a 14-bit@65MHz Analog Devices ADC + 104 MHz DAC.
>>
>
> It's going to be a tough sell for a radio. Even if they found one for $3
> that's too much and they also can't stomach the 10sec to download the
> compiled data in production.

You really have no interest in learning anything about FPGAs that has 
happened in the last 10 or 15 years do you?


> Everything has to fit into the $149.95 sale price at the auto parts
> place, with fat profit margins for everyone and their middlemen,
> speakers, wires, neon-colored huge window sticker, a discount coupon for
> installation, free coffee and free waffles :-)

You two are talking about totally different radios.

-- 

Rick

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#13519

FromJoerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-09-12 14:42 -0700
Message-ID<b9eqpeFrsb0U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#13513
rickman wrote:
> On 9/12/2013 1:03 PM, Joerg wrote:
>> Piotr Wyderski wrote:
>>> Joerg wrote:
>>>
>>>> Question: What do you do with an FPGA in a radio?
>>>
>>> As a matter of fact, it is one of the best places to use an FPGA. :-)
>>> SDR with FPGA reconfiguration capabilities is the ideal solution.
>>> Not for a regular FM noisemaker, though...
>>>
>>>      Best regards, Piotr
>>>
>>> *) It was exactly the only time in my life when I used an FPGA.
>>> + a 14-bit@65MHz Analog Devices ADC + 104 MHz DAC.
>>>
>>
>> It's going to be a tough sell for a radio. Even if they found one for $3
>> that's too much and they also can't stomach the 10sec to download the
>> compiled data in production.
> 
> You really have no interest in learning anything about FPGAs that has
> happened in the last 10 or 15 years do you?
> 

Oh, I do. I just reviewed a design that has some rather fat ones in
there and it would hardly have been possible to do this without FPGA.
However, there are circuits where FPGAs are a perfect fit and others
where they just aren't. In ordinary radios they usually aren't.

> 
>> Everything has to fit into the $149.95 sale price at the auto parts
>> place, with fat profit margins for everyone and their middlemen,
>> speakers, wires, neon-colored huge window sticker, a discount coupon for
>> installation, free coffee and free waffles :-)
> 
> You two are talking about totally different radios.
> 

The last few posts were about car radios, because the topic was
electronics and temperature exposure in cars.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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