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Groups > comp.arch.embedded > #24428 > unrolled thread

Atmel Bought by Microchip

Started byrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
First post2016-06-28 18:55 -0400
Last post2016-07-31 22:39 -0400
Articles 20 on this page of 108 — 25 participants

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  Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-28 18:55 -0400
    Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2016-06-29 11:24 -0500
      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-06-29 16:31 +0000
        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2016-06-29 11:45 -0500
      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2016-06-29 12:46 -0400
        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2016-06-29 12:59 -0400
          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-06-29 17:13 +0000
          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2016-06-29 10:32 -0700
            Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2016-06-29 16:14 -0400
        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2016-06-29 12:59 -0500
          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 14:06 -0400
            Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2016-06-29 13:28 -0500
            Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2016-07-01 20:03 +0000
              Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-01 16:11 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2016-07-01 23:44 +0000
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-01 20:17 -0400
                  Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-02 22:42 -0400
                    Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-03 00:46 -0400
                      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-03 03:08 -0400
                        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-03 08:46 -0400
              Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-01 13:33 -0700
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-01 17:32 -0400
                  Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-01 14:49 -0700
                    Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-01 17:52 -0400
                      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-01 17:54 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2016-07-01 22:14 +0000
                  Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-01 18:18 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2016-07-01 18:48 -0400
      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 13:04 -0400
        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2016-06-29 13:07 -0500
          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 14:17 -0400
            Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2016-06-29 13:34 -0500
            Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2016-06-29 14:45 -0400
      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2016-06-29 12:24 -0500
        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2016-06-29 13:09 -0500
    Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2016-06-29 12:19 -0700
      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 19:48 -0400
        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-06-29 16:49 -0700
      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) - 2016-07-18 17:02 -0400
        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-18 20:29 -0400
        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2016-07-19 10:48 +0000
          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-19 20:23 -0400
        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-07-19 14:27 +0000
    Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 17:46 +0200
      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 12:14 -0400
        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 09:10 +0200
          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-25 20:11 -0400
      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-22 23:01 -0400
        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 09:15 +0200
          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-07-25 14:06 +0000
            Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> - 2016-07-25 23:54 +0100
              Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-07-25 23:18 +0000
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 19:44 -0400
              Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-12-16 17:58 +0100
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2016-12-16 17:28 -0500
          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-25 20:22 -0400
            Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 22:43 -0400
              Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-26 20:12 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-26 21:30 -0700
                  Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-27 19:46 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2016-07-27 07:25 -0400
                  Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-27 19:53 -0400
                    Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-27 20:04 -0700
                      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2016-07-28 01:51 -0500
                        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 02:50 -0400
                          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip raimond.dragomir@gmail.com - 2016-07-28 03:27 -0700
                            Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 12:58 -0400
                        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-28 00:03 -0700
                          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Uwe Bonnes <bon@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> - 2016-07-28 10:19 +0000
                            Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-29 14:52 -0700
                              Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 02:19 -0400
                                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-30 20:03 -0400
                                  Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-30 17:11 -0700
                                    Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-30 20:54 -0400
                                    Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-01 09:45 +0200
                                      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-01 11:52 -0700
                                        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip raimond.dragomir@gmail.com - 2016-08-01 22:17 -0700
                                          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-01 22:28 -0700
                                            Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip raimond.dragomir@gmail.com - 2016-08-02 23:14 -0700
                                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-30 18:05 -0700
                              Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip kristoff <kristoff@skypro.be> - 2016-07-30 18:15 +0200
                                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-30 19:19 -0700
                          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-28 12:29 +0200
                          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 15:04 +0200
                          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Mel Wilson <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2016-07-28 14:07 +0000
                      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-28 20:10 -0400
                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-27 10:08 -0400
                  Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-27 19:49 -0400
                    Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 00:30 -0400
                      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-28 20:13 -0400
                        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 02:23 -0400
                          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-30 20:06 -0400
                            Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2016-07-31 13:55 +0300
                              Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-31 09:12 -0400
                                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2016-07-31 17:22 +0300
                                  Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-31 10:26 -0400
                                    Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2016-07-31 17:38 +0300
                                      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-31 10:49 -0400
                                        Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2016-07-31 17:56 +0300
                                          Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-31 19:21 -0400
                                            Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2016-08-01 02:47 +0300
                                              Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-31 17:11 -0700
                                                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2016-07-31 18:54 -0700
                                              Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-31 20:14 -0400
                                                Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2016-08-01 03:42 +0300
                                                  Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw@attt.bizz - 2016-07-31 21:05 -0400
                                                    Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2016-08-01 04:38 +0300
                                                      Re: Atmel Bought by Microchip krw <krw@nowhere.com> - 2016-07-31 22:39 -0400

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#24730

FromSpehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat>
Date2016-07-27 07:25 -0400
Message-ID<2f6hpbpm1s02t4a9l4polr45otiui9fthi@4ax.com>
In reply to#24724
On Tue, 26 Jul 2016 20:12:24 -0400, the renowned krw@attt.bizz wrote:

>
>Sure.  There are better alternatives.
>
>New information:  Microchip is significantly increasing AVR
>development.  Go figure.

The sessions at their summer program include AVR and Cortex M7. 

I'm optimistic (don't care that much about AVR but some folks do). 

--sp 


-- 
Best regards, 
Spehro Pefhany
Amazon link for AoE 3rd Edition:            http://tinyurl.com/ntrpwu8

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#24738

Fromkrw@attt.bizz
Date2016-07-27 19:53 -0400
Message-ID<v3iipbpjh9jqnd2sf62idoe0od7m8liite@4ax.com>
In reply to#24730
On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 07:25:22 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Jul 2016 20:12:24 -0400, the renowned krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>
>>
>>Sure.  There are better alternatives.
>>
>>New information:  Microchip is significantly increasing AVR
>>development.  Go figure.
>
>The sessions at their summer program include AVR and Cortex M7. 

They know they have a lot of "trapped" AVR customers. Again, I can't
imagine anyone choosing it today, unless they had a lot of investment
(or inertia) they were protecting.   

>I'm optimistic (don't care that much about AVR but some folks do). 

We dumped the AVR a couple of years ago. ...but there is an argument
to be made that we jumped on the M7 a little too quickly.  We probably
couldn't have done it at all if we waited until "it was ready",
though.

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#24739

FromPaul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date2016-07-27 20:04 -0700
Message-ID<87wpk68nu4.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
In reply to#24738
krw@attt.bizz writes:
> They know they have a lot of "trapped" AVR customers. Again, I can't
> imagine anyone choosing it today, unless they had a lot of investment
> (or inertia) they were protecting.   

I'm just a software geek but the AVR looks pretty versatile to me and I
know that lots of hardware folks like it.  Yeah I suppose there's
inertia.  Still don't know what you're advising instead.  You mentioned
the Cortex M7 but that's at a completely different level of cost and
complexity.  The M0 is closer, but I don't know of any M0 (or other ARM)
parts directly comparable to the more popular AVR's.  

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#24742

FromLes Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com>
Date2016-07-28 01:51 -0500
Message-ID<nnc9n8$hoj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#24739
Paul Rubin wrote:
> krw@attt.bizz writes:
>> They know they have a lot of "trapped" AVR customers. Again, I can't
>> imagine anyone choosing it today, unless they had a lot of investment
>> (or inertia) they were protecting.
>
> I'm just a software geek but the AVR looks pretty versatile to me and I
> know that lots of hardware folks like it.  Yeah I suppose there's
> inertia.

It's not *bad*, but my experience is that the same part number may not
be 100% compatible with older revisions later on. If you have something
with a 5-year lifespan, could be a problem.

> Still don't know what you're advising instead.  You mentioned
> the Cortex M7 but that's at a completely different level of cost and
> complexity.  The M0 is closer, but I don't know of any M0 (or other ARM)
> parts directly comparable to the more popular AVR's.
>

There are a lot of choices. ARM Mx, PICxx. PICxx has many of the same
single-source problems as AVR, but I've never caught them in the same
"new revs are different" trap as with AVR.

-- 
Les Cargill

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#24743

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2016-07-28 02:50 -0400
Message-ID<nnc9vc$hmo$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#24742
On 7/28/2016 2:51 AM, Les Cargill wrote:
> Paul Rubin wrote:
>> krw@attt.bizz writes:
>>> They know they have a lot of "trapped" AVR customers. Again, I can't
>>> imagine anyone choosing it today, unless they had a lot of investment
>>> (or inertia) they were protecting.
>>
>> I'm just a software geek but the AVR looks pretty versatile to me and I
>> know that lots of hardware folks like it.  Yeah I suppose there's
>> inertia.
>
> It's not *bad*, but my experience is that the same part number may not
> be 100% compatible with older revisions later on. If you have something
> with a 5-year lifespan, could be a problem.
>
>> Still don't know what you're advising instead.  You mentioned
>> the Cortex M7 but that's at a completely different level of cost and
>> complexity.  The M0 is closer, but I don't know of any M0 (or other ARM)
>> parts directly comparable to the more popular AVR's.
>>
>
> There are a lot of choices. ARM Mx, PICxx. PICxx has many of the same
> single-source problems as AVR, but I've never caught them in the same
> "new revs are different" trap as with AVR.

You are saying Atmel would change the functionality of a part in 
production?  That's pretty bad!

-- 

Rick C

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#24747

Fromraimond.dragomir@gmail.com
Date2016-07-28 03:27 -0700
Message-ID<d75fdacd-fdd7-4357-9757-509f6673c085@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#24743
> You are saying Atmel would change the functionality of a part in 
> production?  That's pretty bad!

There were some cases of early EOLs, but I think they were prior 2000
in the first years of the AVR. Now the family is stable. I know
chips older than 10 years which I suspect we'll also see in the next 10 
years...
I'm also not aware of any EOL in the recent years.

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#24752

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2016-07-28 12:58 -0400
Message-ID<nnddj8$71h$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#24747
On 7/28/2016 6:27 AM, raimond.dragomir@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> You are saying Atmel would change the functionality of a part in
>> production?  That's pretty bad!
>
> There were some cases of early EOLs, but I think they were prior 2000
> in the first years of the AVR. Now the family is stable. I know
> chips older than 10 years which I suspect we'll also see in the next 10
> years...
> I'm also not aware of any EOL in the recent years.

I believe in nearly every case there was a pin compatible replacement 
with very minor differences.  They didn't just kill a part and leave 
customers hanging in the wind.

-- 

Rick C

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#24744

FromPaul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date2016-07-28 00:03 -0700
Message-ID<87shuu8csf.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
In reply to#24742
Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> writes:
> There are a lot of choices. ARM Mx, PICxx. PICxx has many of the same
> single-source problems as AVR, but I've never caught them in the same
> "new revs are different" trap as with AVR.

The smaller PICs seem horrible to program.  AVR and ARM at least have
decent gcc-based tool chains.  As mentioned, I don't know of ARM parts
directly comparable to the more popular AVR's (PDIP packages for
breadboard prototyping, 5-volt tolerant i/o, etc).  ARMs also seem more
complex to program than AVR (e.g. in terms of the stuff required on
startup) but maybe that's my imagination.

I was a fan of the TI MSP430 line for a while, since it has a nicer cpu
architecture and some unique features, but again the available parts
don't have the configuration and packaging options that the AVRs do.
Plus, I think recent ARMs have surpassed the 430's in power efficiency
despite being 32 bits wide instead of 16.  TI itself seems to be moving
away from the 430 line towards the Cortex M4.

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#24746

FromUwe Bonnes <bon@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Date2016-07-28 10:19 +0000
Message-ID<nncm7n$j9g$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
In reply to#24744
In comp.arch.embedded Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:
...
> decent gcc-based tool chains.  As mentioned, I don't know of ARM parts
> directly comparable to the more popular AVR's (PDIP packages for
> breadboard prototyping, 5-volt tolerant i/o, etc).  ARMs also seem more
> complex to program than AVR (e.g. in terms of the stuff required on
> startup) but maybe that's my imagination.

Take a STM32 Nucleo 32 and you can use it as PDIP with USB port for
debugging, communication and file upload...

-- 
Uwe Bonnes                bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik  Schlossgartenstrasse 9  64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 1623569 ------- Fax. 06151 1623305 ---------

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#24756

FromPaul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date2016-07-29 14:52 -0700
Message-ID<87oa5g863b.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
In reply to#24746
Uwe Bonnes <bon@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> writes:
> Take a STM32 Nucleo 32 and you can use it as PDIP with USB port for
> debugging, communication and file upload...

Thanks, there's lots of those small boards but I didn't know about that
particular one, so it's nice to learn of it.  However, it's not really
in the same class as an AVR which is in a single small package, DIP8 in
the case of ATTiny85, also available in hand solderable SMT packages,
and costs $1-$2 instead of $10+.

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#24757

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2016-07-30 02:19 -0400
Message-ID<nnhgu6$qe2$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#24756
On 7/29/2016 5:52 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Uwe Bonnes <bon@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> writes:
>> Take a STM32 Nucleo 32 and you can use it as PDIP with USB port for
>> debugging, communication and file upload...
>
> Thanks, there's lots of those small boards but I didn't know about that
> particular one, so it's nice to learn of it.  However, it's not really
> in the same class as an AVR which is in a single small package, DIP8 in
> the case of ATTiny85, also available in hand solderable SMT packages,
> and costs $1-$2 instead of $10+.

I'm not sure what you mean about this.  There are plenty of ARMs 
available for under $2.  If you are just making a few of some design why 
do you care about such a small cost?  If you are making a lot of 
something, why would you want a DIP package?

-- 

Rick C

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#24760

Fromkrw@attt.bizz
Date2016-07-30 20:03 -0400
Message-ID<f1gqpb5g6oa11qfqh0c4qfcf7ud3dk9oju@4ax.com>
In reply to#24757
On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 02:19:48 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 7/29/2016 5:52 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
>> Uwe Bonnes <bon@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> writes:
>>> Take a STM32 Nucleo 32 and you can use it as PDIP with USB port for
>>> debugging, communication and file upload...
>>
>> Thanks, there's lots of those small boards but I didn't know about that
>> particular one, so it's nice to learn of it.  However, it's not really
>> in the same class as an AVR which is in a single small package, DIP8 in
>> the case of ATTiny85, also available in hand solderable SMT packages,
>> and costs $1-$2 instead of $10+.
>
>I'm not sure what you mean about this.  There are plenty of ARMs 
>available for under $2.

(Well) Under $1.


>If you are just making a few of some design why 
>do you care about such a small cost?  If you are making a lot of 
>something, why would you want a DIP package?

Excellent points.

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#24762

FromPaul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date2016-07-30 17:11 -0700
Message-ID<87fuqq8y4o.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
In reply to#24760
krw@attt.bizz writes:
>>There are plenty of ARMs available for under $2.
> (Well) Under $1.

Can you suggest any specific part numbers?  Thanks.

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#24763

Fromkrw@attt.bizz
Date2016-07-30 20:54 -0400
Message-ID<cviqpb59b7mt4qj5cglaebs9ofih459lvl@4ax.com>
In reply to#24762
On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 17:11:35 -0700, Paul Rubin
<no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>krw@attt.bizz writes:
>>>There are plenty of ARMs available for under $2.
>> (Well) Under $1.
>
>Can you suggest any specific part numbers?  Thanks.

Atmel M0s.

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#24782

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2016-08-01 09:45 +0200
Message-ID<nnmumb$lbn$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#24762
On 31/07/16 02:11, Paul Rubin wrote:
> krw@attt.bizz writes:
>>> There are plenty of ARMs available for under $2.
>> (Well) Under $1.
> 
> Can you suggest any specific part numbers?  Thanks.
> 

There are Kinetis (Freescale, now NXP) M0+ devices for $0.50 or so.

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#24783

FromPaul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date2016-08-01 11:52 -0700
Message-ID<87r3a85njt.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
In reply to#24782
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
> There are Kinetis (Freescale, now NXP) M0+ devices for $0.50 or so.

Yes this is true.  What I don't know is of any specific ones with
capabilities similar to the more popular AVR's (on-chip eeprom is one
such feature that seems hard to find).  It's also the case (I suppose
this would count as "inertia") that at least at the moment, there's lots
of little development boards with interesting functions, that use the
AVR and don't seem to have ARM counterparts.

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#24784

Fromraimond.dragomir@gmail.com
Date2016-08-01 22:17 -0700
Message-ID<1e6c04cf-8a1e-4f18-a4a4-a61c8a2f3f18@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#24783
luni, 1 august 2016, 21:53:05 UTC+3, Paul Rubin a scris:
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
> > There are Kinetis (Freescale, now NXP) M0+ devices for $0.50 or so.
> 
> Yes this is true.  What I don't know is of any specific ones with
> capabilities similar to the more popular AVR's (on-chip eeprom is one
> such feature that seems hard to find).  It's also the case (I suppose
> this would count as "inertia") that at least at the moment, there's lots
> of little development boards with interesting functions, that use the
> AVR and don't seem to have ARM counterparts.

Kinetis KE devices are 5V and have 256 bytes eeprom. The eeprom can be
enough for many applications, but it is indeed smaller than the AVR's.
They are also rated at 6kV ESD in the datasheet. This is quite high,
AVR's are somewhere around 4kV, STM32 and Silabs devices are regular
2kV. I re-designed a board which had an atmega8, with a STM32 M0 device
(a STM32F030 variant). That board just didn't work in that environment
(very noisy industrial). I was forced to revert to the poor AVR....

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#24785

FromPaul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date2016-08-01 22:28 -0700
Message-ID<87mvkv68oj.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
In reply to#24784
raimond.dragomir@gmail.com writes:
> Kinetis KE devices are 5V and have 256 bytes eeprom. The eeprom can be
> enough for many applications, but it is indeed smaller than the AVR's.

No prob about it being smaller.  For most uses I've thought of, a few
dozen bytes is plenty, but 0 bytes limits some applications.

> They are also rated at 6kV ESD in the datasheet. This is quite
> high,...

Hmm, I hadn't even thought of that issue.  Another thing someone
mentioned about avr's is that the gpio pins can source (or maybe just
sink) quite a lot of current, like 40mA.  That has to be good for
something.

On the other hand, the idle power consumption of the common avr's is
quite a lot higher than I expected, if I'm reading this right:

  https://github.com/manitou48/DUEZoo/blob/master/power.txt

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#24786

Fromraimond.dragomir@gmail.com
Date2016-08-02 23:14 -0700
Message-ID<2d152d04-cee5-4569-82ab-53927797ea6f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#24785
marți, 2 august 2016, 08:28:47 UTC+3, Paul Rubin a scris:
> raimond.dragomir@gmail.com writes:
> > Kinetis KE devices are 5V and have 256 bytes eeprom. The eeprom can be
> > enough for many applications, but it is indeed smaller than the AVR's.
> 
> No prob about it being smaller.  For most uses I've thought of, a few
> dozen bytes is plenty, but 0 bytes limits some applications.

Yes indeed. Although, depending on the internal flash technology and
provided interface to the user, one can emulate a eeprom. I'm doing
this on STM32F030 devices which don't have eeprom.

> 
> > They are also rated at 6kV ESD in the datasheet. This is quite
> > high,...
> 
> Hmm, I hadn't even thought of that issue.  

Neither did I, until I faced it. I had some boards with XMEGA devices
which I ported to cheaper F030. No problem, but the industrial environment
was quite "normal". I thought I can equalize the family by porting some
other two designs which had ATMEGA8 cpu to the same F030... No luck
this time. The F030 just stops working. The internal watchdog gets it back 
to work, and it's quite fast at 2ms. But the hiccups are noticeable.

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#24764

FromPaul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date2016-07-30 18:05 -0700
Message-ID<87bn1e8vmi.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
In reply to#24757
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>> and costs $1-$2 instead of $10+.
> I'm not sure what you mean about this.  There are plenty of ARMs
> available for under $2.

The comparison was with the Nucleo 32 board, not a bare package.

> If you are just making a few of some design why do you care about such
> a small cost?  

Maybe I'd like to publish the design so other people can make their
own.  People like cheap stuff.

> If you are making a lot of something, why would you want a DIP
> package?

DIP is easier for prototyping or hand assembly, and then it's nice to
have a compatible SMT part if a board is being made someplace.

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