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Groups > comp.arch.embedded > #13464 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2013-09-11 11:11 -0500 |
| Last post | 2013-09-11 22:19 -0400 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 428 — 35 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.arch.embedded
Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-11 11:11 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Rich Webb <webb.ra@example.net> - 2013-09-11 12:45 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Frank Miles <fpm@u.washington.edu> - 2013-09-11 16:59 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-09-11 10:08 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-11 12:27 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-09-11 11:23 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-09-11 11:32 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-09-11 11:30 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-11 18:26 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-11 13:37 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-09-11 21:51 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-11 16:46 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-09-12 14:00 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Anders.Montonen@kapsi.spam.stop.fi.invalid - 2013-09-14 10:24 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-15 02:38 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-15 01:52 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-15 12:33 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-15 13:02 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-15 14:33 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor robert bristow-johnson <rbj@audioimagination.com> - 2013-09-15 12:09 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-09-15 22:12 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-15 16:32 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-09-16 09:17 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-16 10:21 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-16 13:53 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-17 07:31 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-17 04:46 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor robert bristow-johnson <rbj@audioimagination.com> - 2013-09-17 10:46 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-17 22:30 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-17 22:43 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor gtwrek@sonic.net (Mark Curry) - 2013-09-18 14:35 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor upsidedown@downunder.com - 2013-09-18 18:41 +0300
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-18 09:12 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-19 07:57 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-19 22:22 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-20 05:44 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-20 00:05 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-20 14:18 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor upsidedown@downunder.com - 2013-09-20 16:24 +0300
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-20 08:31 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-20 12:43 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-20 20:29 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor gtwrek@sonic.net (Mark Curry) - 2013-09-20 21:39 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-20 15:27 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-20 23:52 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-20 18:52 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-09-20 19:38 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-24 01:20 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-24 01:22 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-09-24 03:33 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-24 21:17 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-22 10:56 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-22 20:08 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-22 12:21 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-23 00:12 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-22 16:50 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-23 09:12 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-23 06:49 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-09-23 16:31 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-24 01:13 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-09-24 02:15 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-24 15:56 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-09-23 00:46 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-22 23:18 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Arlet Ottens <usenet+5@c-scape.nl> - 2013-09-23 09:00 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-23 00:18 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Arlet Ottens <usenet+5@c-scape.nl> - 2013-09-23 09:27 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-23 06:56 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-09-23 10:50 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-28 13:04 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor upsidedown@downunder.com - 2013-09-20 15:41 +0300
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-20 14:33 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor upsidedown@downunder.com - 2013-09-20 15:55 +0300
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-20 08:42 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-09-23 09:06 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-28 12:07 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-09-29 22:15 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-01 00:33 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-10-01 10:25 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-03 10:26 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-10-03 19:07 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Scott Hemphill <hemphill@hemphills.net> - 2013-10-03 19:17 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Scott Hemphill <hemphill@hemphills.net> - 2013-10-03 21:00 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-18 11:29 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-09-18 10:20 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-18 21:53 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-09-19 09:48 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-19 09:38 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-09-19 11:24 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-19 10:53 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-09-19 13:12 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-19 15:31 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-19 15:44 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-19 22:53 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-20 08:37 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-30 17:48 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-01 00:37 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-10-01 09:14 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-09-22 21:31 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-23 00:19 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-09-23 09:23 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-23 09:00 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-09-23 11:31 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-28 13:02 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-28 22:54 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-28 22:33 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-28 22:29 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-29 10:01 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-09-29 23:02 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-30 10:36 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-30 14:09 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-01 01:27 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-10-01 05:46 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-10-01 09:19 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-01 03:28 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-10-01 10:13 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-01 12:39 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2013-10-01 16:56 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-10-01 18:59 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-01 17:25 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-10-01 18:37 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-10-01 19:29 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-10-01 19:31 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) robert bristow-johnson <rbj@audioimagination.com> - 2013-10-01 16:36 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-10-01 20:51 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-10-01 21:08 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-10-02 09:08 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) Mel Wilson <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2013-10-02 09:36 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-10-02 17:16 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) upsidedown@downunder.com - 2013-10-03 10:15 +0300
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-10-03 02:32 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-10-03 15:45 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-03 09:06 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-10-03 17:18 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-10-03 16:51 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-03 10:11 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-10-02 09:52 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-10-03 09:35 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-10-03 03:26 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-10-03 13:27 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-10-03 12:55 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-10-04 16:59 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-10-02 01:02 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) "Boudewijn Dijkstra" <sp4mtr4p.boudewijn@indes.com> - 2013-10-03 16:28 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-10-03 08:03 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-10-03 19:15 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-10-03 15:50 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-10-03 15:27 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-10-03 16:37 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-10-03 21:51 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-10-04 00:02 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-10-02 00:12 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor (die evil thread, die!!!) robert bristow-johnson <rbj@audioimagination.com> - 2013-10-03 10:24 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-10-02 00:13 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-10-02 06:51 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-10-02 09:55 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-10-02 09:58 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 03:12 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-10-02 09:49 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 12:04 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-10-02 12:51 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-10-02 15:18 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 19:46 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-10-01 23:09 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-19 03:53 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-19 01:45 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-19 04:34 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-19 02:17 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor gtwrek@sonic.net (Mark Curry) - 2013-09-19 16:49 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-19 17:05 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-19 13:08 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-19 20:22 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-19 14:42 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-20 00:34 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-19 22:15 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-20 08:43 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-19 22:16 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-19 12:28 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-19 15:08 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-18 12:52 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor robert bristow-johnson <rbj@audioimagination.com> - 2013-09-18 10:23 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-19 08:03 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor robert bristow-johnson <rbj@audioimagination.com> - 2013-09-19 12:53 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-18 21:31 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-19 04:18 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-19 02:02 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-19 16:47 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor j.m.granville@gmail.com - 2013-09-24 19:54 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-25 19:12 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-25 11:50 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-26 01:26 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-26 09:11 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-09-26 02:12 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-26 13:46 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-26 09:55 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-26 18:44 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-26 12:31 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-26 23:09 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-26 08:45 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-19 07:44 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-19 03:58 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-19 09:45 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-19 16:50 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-19 07:31 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-17 11:30 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor gtwrek@sonic.net (Mark Curry) - 2013-09-17 21:11 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-18 13:11 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-09-17 11:42 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Al Clark <aclark@danvillesignal.com> - 2013-09-17 14:06 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-09-17 16:44 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-17 11:43 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-17 13:22 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-09-18 17:17 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-18 16:46 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-18 09:16 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-18 14:13 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-18 20:00 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2013-09-18 19:56 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-19 09:56 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-18 14:01 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-18 12:35 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-09-18 23:28 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-18 16:39 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-18 17:26 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-09-18 17:56 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-22 17:53 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-23 01:00 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-23 00:15 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-23 11:31 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-23 21:15 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-23 22:41 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-24 02:57 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-23 18:42 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-23 21:16 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-23 20:31 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-24 12:01 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-19 03:14 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-19 00:53 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-09-19 09:58 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-18 16:43 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-19 03:21 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-19 00:54 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-19 08:25 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-26 09:03 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-26 06:47 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-26 09:46 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-26 10:06 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-26 13:45 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-26 23:54 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-29 08:31 -0400
Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2013-09-29 23:37 +0000
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-30 01:16 +0100
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-09-29 22:31 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-30 10:06 +0100
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-30 11:12 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-09-30 09:24 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-01 01:33 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-09-30 22:48 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-01 03:04 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-10-01 00:27 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-01 03:32 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2013-09-30 11:37 +0000
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-30 13:40 +0100
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-30 11:43 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-30 17:07 +0100
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-30 11:38 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2013-09-30 18:57 +0000
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-30 12:36 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor jhallen@TheWorld.com (Joseph H Allen) - 2013-09-30 20:15 +0000
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2013-09-30 20:38 +0000
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-01 02:55 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2013-10-01 11:50 +0000
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-01 12:53 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2013-10-01 17:34 +0000
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-01 17:31 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2013-10-02 12:15 +0000
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 12:19 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2013-10-03 11:55 +0000
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-03 01:04 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-04 00:19 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-03 23:07 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-01 20:06 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-10-01 22:38 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 03:09 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-02 00:51 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 03:58 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-02 01:27 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 04:24 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-02 01:54 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 19:51 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-03 00:17 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-04 00:27 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-03 23:09 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-04 09:30 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-06 10:53 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-09 05:12 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-10-09 02:24 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2013-10-09 12:05 +0000
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-10-09 08:06 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-10-04 10:01 +0100
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-04 09:38 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-10-04 15:25 +0100
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-04 10:35 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-10-03 09:43 +0100
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-04 00:29 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-10-04 01:04 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-04 09:40 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-10-02 10:21 +0100
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 19:54 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-10-03 09:48 +0100
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-03 00:21 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-10-03 09:55 +0100
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-10-03 04:45 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-10-03 13:02 +0100
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-10-03 07:19 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-04 00:02 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-10-04 00:55 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-04 09:45 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-10-02 10:06 +0100
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-10-02 02:24 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-10-02 10:57 +0100
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-10-02 04:31 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-10-02 15:45 +0100
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-10-02 08:29 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-03 00:47 -0700
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-10-03 09:59 +0100
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-10-03 10:09 +0100
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-10-01 01:51 -0400
Re: Open source FPGA toolchain ?, was: Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-30 10:44 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-09-27 01:10 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-29 08:36 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-09-29 22:06 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-30 11:47 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-09-30 09:14 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-09-19 01:27 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-19 03:49 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-15 16:40 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor robert bristow-johnson <rbj@audioimagination.com> - 2013-09-15 14:53 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-16 14:22 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-15 15:12 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor robert bristow-johnson <rbj@audioimagination.com> - 2013-09-15 14:58 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-15 18:19 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-16 14:48 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-16 17:17 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-16 18:41 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-17 11:22 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-17 15:40 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Torfinn Ingolfsen <tingo@home.no> - 2013-09-17 18:44 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-16 14:31 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-17 07:44 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-17 11:46 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-19 09:21 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-19 12:26 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-19 20:17 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-18 08:25 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-18 14:16 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-18 12:39 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor langwadt@fonz.dk - 2013-09-18 15:18 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-19 09:49 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-17 07:35 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-15 13:11 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-15 16:26 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-15 16:36 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-17 07:49 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-17 05:30 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-19 10:00 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor gtwrek@sonic.net (Mark Curry) - 2013-09-16 16:51 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-16 14:54 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor gtwrek@sonic.net (Mark Curry) - 2013-09-16 19:06 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-16 15:22 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@technologyhighland.invalid> - 2013-09-17 09:40 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-17 11:48 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-17 15:50 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor gtwrek@sonic.net (Mark Curry) - 2013-09-17 21:03 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-17 17:05 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor gtwrek@sonic.net (Mark Curry) - 2013-09-17 21:16 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-09-17 16:38 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-17 21:33 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2013-09-18 10:48 +0300
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.please> - 2013-09-15 10:39 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-15 12:39 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-15 12:58 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-15 11:33 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-15 14:40 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.please> - 2013-09-15 14:25 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-15 13:35 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor robert bristow-johnson <rbj@audioimagination.com> - 2013-09-15 12:40 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.please> - 2013-09-15 14:57 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor robert bristow-johnson <rbj@audioimagination.com> - 2013-09-15 13:44 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-16 01:46 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-16 10:26 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-16 02:44 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Mel Wilson <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2013-09-16 09:01 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-16 12:18 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.please> - 2013-09-16 10:06 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor robert bristow-johnson <rbj@audioimagination.com> - 2013-09-16 10:34 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-16 12:09 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-16 17:31 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-16 12:00 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-09-17 07:59 +0000
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-17 10:13 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-17 05:56 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-17 11:37 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-17 16:00 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-17 21:30 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-18 12:46 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-18 18:00 +0100
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-11 12:10 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Vladimir Vassilevsky <nospam@nowhere.com> - 2013-09-11 14:30 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-11 15:39 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-11 15:46 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-11 20:39 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.please> - 2013-09-11 20:03 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-09-12 14:09 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-09-12 07:11 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-09-12 16:34 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-12 10:42 -0400
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-09-12 12:48 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-12 16:14 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2013-09-12 21:39 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-09-12 23:41 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-12 16:08 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-09-13 01:00 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-09-12 23:03 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-09-13 08:47 +0200
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Dave Nadler <drn@nadler.com> - 2013-09-11 15:40 -0700
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.please> - 2013-09-11 20:05 -0500
Re: Small, fast, resource-rich processor Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-11 22:19 -0400
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| From | Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-02 12:51 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <87txgzfwfs.fsf@digitalsignallabs.com> |
| In reply to | #14091 |
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: > On 10/2/2013 9:49 AM, Randy Yates wrote: >> rickman<gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: >> >>> On 10/1/2013 6:37 PM, Randy Yates wrote: >>>> rickman<gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: >>>>> [...] >>>>> I'm just going to make one more point and then I'm done with this >>>>> topic. Floating point is just fixed point with a range extending >>>>> multiplier added. Anything you can do with fixed point you can do >>>>> with floating point. The opposite is *not* true. >>>> >>>> Here is something you can do with fixed-point that you can't do >>>> with floating point: perform a multiply-accumulate with 64 bits >>>> of precision. >>> >>> Really? You can't have a 64 bit mantissa with a floating point >>> number? Wow, it must be one of those really subtle mathematical >>> things... >> >> I'm sorry - I should have been more explicit on the basis of >> comparison I am proposing: same number of bits for each. > > Ok, then the point is... pointless. Really? The amount of resources required to accomplish a task is pointless? -- Randy Yates Digital Signal Labs http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
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| From | Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-02 15:18 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <87fvsjbhwq.fsf@digitalsignallabs.com> |
| In reply to | #14093 |
Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> writes: > rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: > >> On 10/2/2013 9:49 AM, Randy Yates wrote: >>> rickman<gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: >>> >>>> On 10/1/2013 6:37 PM, Randy Yates wrote: >>>>> rickman<gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: >>>>>> [...] >>>>>> I'm just going to make one more point and then I'm done with this >>>>>> topic. Floating point is just fixed point with a range extending >>>>>> multiplier added. Anything you can do with fixed point you can do >>>>>> with floating point. The opposite is *not* true. >>>>> >>>>> Here is something you can do with fixed-point that you can't do >>>>> with floating point: perform a multiply-accumulate with 64 bits >>>>> of precision. >>>> >>>> Really? You can't have a 64 bit mantissa with a floating point >>>> number? Wow, it must be one of those really subtle mathematical >>>> things... >>> >>> I'm sorry - I should have been more explicit on the basis of >>> comparison I am proposing: same number of bits for each. >> >> Ok, then the point is... pointless. > > Really? The amount of resources required to accomplish a task is > pointless? Or was that a joke? Sorry! -- Randy Yates Digital Signal Labs http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-02 19:46 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <l2ibbv$c5l$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #14093 |
On 10/2/2013 12:51 PM, Randy Yates wrote: > rickman<gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: > >> On 10/2/2013 9:49 AM, Randy Yates wrote: >>> rickman<gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: >>> >>>> On 10/1/2013 6:37 PM, Randy Yates wrote: >>>>> rickman<gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: >>>>>> [...] >>>>>> I'm just going to make one more point and then I'm done with this >>>>>> topic. Floating point is just fixed point with a range extending >>>>>> multiplier added. Anything you can do with fixed point you can do >>>>>> with floating point. The opposite is *not* true. >>>>> >>>>> Here is something you can do with fixed-point that you can't do >>>>> with floating point: perform a multiply-accumulate with 64 bits >>>>> of precision. >>>> >>>> Really? You can't have a 64 bit mantissa with a floating point >>>> number? Wow, it must be one of those really subtle mathematical >>>> things... >>> >>> I'm sorry - I should have been more explicit on the basis of >>> comparison I am proposing: same number of bits for each. >> >> Ok, then the point is... pointless. > > Really? The amount of resources required to accomplish a task is > pointless? No, the discussion has shifted to "what can be done on many currently available CPUs" rather than a discussion of fixed vs. floating point. -- Rick
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| From | glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-01 23:09 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <l2fkmt$54k$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #14054 |
In comp.dsp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: (snip, someone wrote) >>> It is a given that FP will round if you do any number of >>> non-simplistic calculations, but these same calcs would >>> likely not fit a fixed point calculation either. So I don't >>> follow the point. I don't see where anyone here is >>> assuming FP is *always* exact either. (then I wrote) >> Pretty much all machines allow one to do multiple word fixed >> point addition and subtraction. That was more important on the >> eight-bit processors, as that was needed to do larger operations. >> It isn't all that hard to do multiple word multiply. Divide >> is a little harder. It is, one most machines, somewhat harder to >> do higher precision floating point using the available operations. >> It can be done, is done, and is usually slow enough to discourage >> its use. > I'm just going to make one more point and then I'm done with > this topic. Floating point is just fixed point with a range > extending multiplier added. Anything you can do with fixed > point you can do with floating point. > The opposite is *not* true. As long as you stay within range, that should be true for add, subtract, and multiply. On many machines, the product of fixed point multiply goes to a full double width, while a double precision floating point value has fewer significant bits. (Some are used for the exponent.) But things change for divide. Many fixed point algorithms depend on divide to truncate, and often use the remainder (modulo). If you have floating point that rounds, it is not so easy to get the appropriate truncated quotient and remainder. If you have floating point with unknown rounding mode, it is even harder. -- glen
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-09-19 03:53 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <l1eaip$h3n$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #13719 |
On 9/19/2013 12:53 AM, Paul Rubin wrote: > Tim Wescott<tim@seemywebsite.really> writes: >> And yes, you'd really want a numerics expert on board, or to do your >> design conservatively, if you were going to proceed. Which is just yet >> another tax on your project if you're going to use FPGAs instead of >> standard processors. > > Well put. Why do you need a numerics expert to do a KF in an FPGA, but not on a CPU? -- Rick
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-09-19 01:45 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7xvc1xdwtq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| In reply to | #13728 |
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: > Why do you need a numerics expert to do a KF in an FPGA, but not on a CPU? Because if you use IEEE-754 double precision, you're already getting the benefit of the numerics experts who designed the standard. If you use anything else, you have to supply your own numerics experts.
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-09-19 04:34 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <l1ecv8$t1m$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #13735 |
On 9/19/2013 4:45 AM, Paul Rubin wrote: > rickman<gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: >> Why do you need a numerics expert to do a KF in an FPGA, but not on a CPU? > > Because if you use IEEE-754 double precision, you're already getting the > benefit of the numerics experts who designed the standard. If you use > anything else, you have to supply your own numerics experts. And what did those experts say about the adequacy of the resolution. I guess that is what I thought needed to be addressed. Are you saying that you are concerned about the implementation working? -- Rick
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-09-19 02:17 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7xmwn9dvbu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| In reply to | #13736 |
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: >> if you use IEEE-754 double precision, you're already getting the >> benefit of the numerics experts who designed the standard. If you >> use anything else, you have to supply your own numerics experts. > And what did those experts say about the adequacy of the resolution. They say IEEE double precision is good enough for most things (I guess they want you to use extended precision for intermediate results as it's done on the x86), but single precision often goes astray. This has to do with the sizes of reasonable calculations and therefore the amount of error buildup they're likely to see. And yes, if for it's something critical, it takes more careful analysis. I don't know where Tim's KF thing would come into the picture. > I guess that is what I thought needed to be addressed. Well, precision is relevant for two reasons: 1) numerical instability, e.g. from an ill-conditioned matrix in the KF example; 2) error buildup in an otherwise well-behaved calculation. For the first of these you have to think carefully about the application (e.g. does it get into highly nonlinear regimes?). For the second, double precision mostly takes care of it, given that these calculations are relatively small. If you're running something like a long range PDE solver it might be different. > Are you saying that you are concerned about the implementation > working? I just mean there are a lot of mathematical and coding pitfalls you can get into when implementing this stuff, and IEEE arithmetic is designed to protect you from quite a lot of them. It's more forgiving towards straightforward implementations than systems that came before it.
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| From | gtwrek@sonic.net (Mark Curry) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-09-19 16:49 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <l1f9ub$8pa$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #13741 |
In article <7xmwn9dvbu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote: >rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: >>> if you use IEEE-754 double precision, you're already getting the >>> benefit of the numerics experts who designed the standard. If you >>> use anything else, you have to supply your own numerics experts. >> And what did those experts say about the adequacy of the resolution. > >They say IEEE double precision is good enough for most things (I guess >they want you to use extended precision for intermediate results as it's >done on the x86), but single precision often goes astray. This has to >do with the sizes of reasonable calculations and therefore the amount of >error buildup they're likely to see. And yes, if for it's something >critical, it takes more careful analysis. I don't know where Tim's >KF thing would come into the picture. > In a lot of these recent arguments, I see both sides basically arguing the same point - they're in agreement - but coming to different conclusions. In any DSP solution, you as the designer must analyze the conditions and determine: Do I have enough precision (i.e. do I have enough bits for my mantissa). This is invariant whether a fixed point or floating point solution is used. Secondly, you must analyze the conditions to determine if you have enough range. If you chose a floating point solution, this is less important - you're less likely to run into trouble. For a fixed point, or custom floating point, you must do the engineering. As a ASIC/FPGA person who's done this a bit, this can be tricky. There's rounding considerations throughout. But that's engineering. You do your best, tests extensively with real data, AND contrived data. Then you add margin to be sure. There's no relying on "They say double precision is good enough" Paul - this is happening all the time in ASIC/FPGAs. We can't just punt and say "use double precision floating point everywhere." And I don't consider myself to be a "numeric expert" by any means.. Regards, Mark
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| From | glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-09-19 17:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <l1fasj$76h$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #13753 |
In comp.dsp Mark Curry <gtwrek@sonic.net> wrote: > In article <7xmwn9dvbu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>, > Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote: (snip on experts) >>They say IEEE double precision is good enough for most things (I guess >>they want you to use extended precision for intermediate results as it's >>done on the x86), but single precision often goes astray. This has to >>do with the sizes of reasonable calculations and therefore the amount of >>error buildup they're likely to see. And yes, if for it's something >>critical, it takes more careful analysis. I don't know where Tim's >>KF thing would come into the picture. > In a lot of these recent arguments, I see both sides basically > arguing the same point - they're in agreement - but coming to > different conclusions. (snip) > Secondly, you must analyze the conditions to determine if you have enough > range. If you chose a floating point solution, this is less important - > you're less likely to run into trouble. For a fixed point, or custom > floating point, you must do the engineering. As a ASIC/FPGA person who's > done this a bit, this can be tricky. There's rounding considerations > throughout. But that's engineering. You do your best, tests extensively > with real data, AND contrived data. (snip) > There's no relying on "They say double precision is good enough" Yes. The reason that double precision is good enough is that enough algorithms have been written to avoid enough cancellation for it to be enough. If you do the operations in the right order, double precision is usually enough to get single precision results, and that is usually good enough. -- glen
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| From | Don Y <this@isnotme.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-09-19 13:08 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <l1flk9$76n$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #13753 |
Hi Mark,
On 9/19/2013 9:49 AM, Mark Curry wrote:
> There's no relying on "They say double precision is good enough"
Exactly. Even neglecting the "cost" (time/silicon/etc.) involved.
Far more frequently overlooked is a critical analysis of the
actual algorithm ("equations") used and how they behave in
the "dark corners". I.e., do you understand the implementation
of the data type well enough to know what sorts of test cases
to throw at it to *really* stress it's performance in conditions
that *may* well pop up in The real World?
(This is akin to someone naively testing for equality among
floats -- though much more nefarious!)
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| From | glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-09-19 20:22 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <l1fmdk$9ln$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #13760 |
In comp.dsp Don Y <this@isnotme.com> wrote:
> On 9/19/2013 9:49 AM, Mark Curry wrote:
>> There's no relying on "They say double precision is good enough"
> Exactly. Even neglecting the "cost" (time/silicon/etc.) involved.
> Far more frequently overlooked is a critical analysis of the
> actual algorithm ("equations") used and how they behave in
> the "dark corners". I.e., do you understand the implementation
> of the data type well enough to know what sorts of test cases
> to throw at it to *really* stress it's performance in conditions
> that *may* well pop up in The real World?
A favorite example over the years has been the quadratic formula.
It seems so easy, but with the appropriate values you get
enough cancellation that the results are very far off.
Also, the values don't look so obviously exceptional.
(snip)
-- glen
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| From | Don Y <this@isnotme.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-09-19 14:42 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <l1fr52$mj3$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #13762 |
Hi Glen,
On 9/19/2013 1:22 PM, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
> In comp.dsp Don Y <this@isnotme.com> wrote:
>
>> On 9/19/2013 9:49 AM, Mark Curry wrote:
>>> There's no relying on "They say double precision is good enough"
>
>> Exactly. Even neglecting the "cost" (time/silicon/etc.) involved.
>
>> Far more frequently overlooked is a critical analysis of the
>> actual algorithm ("equations") used and how they behave in
>> the "dark corners". I.e., do you understand the implementation
>> of the data type well enough to know what sorts of test cases
>> to throw at it to *really* stress it's performance in conditions
>> that *may* well pop up in The real World?
>
> A favorite example over the years has been the quadratic formula.
>
> It seems so easy, but with the appropriate values you get
> enough cancellation that the results are very far off.
> Also, the values don't look so obviously exceptional.
Yes. Any time you're mixing very big and very small.
Solve one type of quadratic equation one way; another
a *different* way -- based on a, b and c.
(The first time this happens to you, you stare at the results
and the code and wonder what the hell went wrong! Everything
*appears* correct -- except the "answer" :-/ Thereafter,
you learn not to be so naive when approaching these problems!
Regardless of single, double, extended, quad, etc. precision
formats!! Sometimes, numbers aren't *just* numbers...
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-09-20 00:34 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <l1gj8l$1kp$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #13741 |
On 9/19/2013 5:17 AM, Paul Rubin wrote: > rickman<gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: >>> if you use IEEE-754 double precision, you're already getting the >>> benefit of the numerics experts who designed the standard. If you >>> use anything else, you have to supply your own numerics experts. >> And what did those experts say about the adequacy of the resolution. > > They say IEEE double precision is good enough for most things "Most things"??? What does that mean? How do you know if your app fits into the definition of "most things? > (I guess > they want you to use extended precision for intermediate results as it's > done on the x86), but single precision often goes astray. This has to > do with the sizes of reasonable calculations and therefore the amount of > error buildup they're likely to see. And yes, if for it's something > critical, it takes more careful analysis. I don't know where Tim's > KF thing would come into the picture. > >> I guess that is what I thought needed to be addressed. > > Well, precision is relevant for two reasons: 1) numerical instability, > e.g. from an ill-conditioned matrix in the KF example; 2) error buildup > in an otherwise well-behaved calculation. For the first of these you > have to think carefully about the application (e.g. does it get into > highly nonlinear regimes?). For the second, double precision mostly > takes care of it, given that these calculations are relatively small. > If you're running something like a long range PDE solver it might be > different. > >> Are you saying that you are concerned about the implementation >> working? > > I just mean there are a lot of mathematical and coding pitfalls you can > get into when implementing this stuff, and IEEE arithmetic is designed > to protect you from quite a lot of them. It's more forgiving towards > straightforward implementations than systems that came before it. Ok -- Rick
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-09-19 22:15 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7xli2s2hw2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| In reply to | #13766 |
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: >> They say IEEE double precision is good enough for most things > "Most things"??? What does that mean? How do you know if your app > fits into the definition of "most things? I don't know how many times I have to explain this. There are two kinds of numerical algorithms: 1) poorly behaved (unstable, working near singularities, etc). 2) well-behaved (everything else) It usually isn't that hard to tell which kind you're dealing with in a given application. Well-behaved algorithms are characterized by a slow buildup of errors rather than massive oscillation or whatever. With double precision, you're potentially in bad shape with #1 and there's not much you can do, but you're generally in good shape with #2, for reasons already explained. You can tolerate a lot of 1-ulp error buildup before the imprecision reaches into the realm of physical measurement. With single precision, you can get clobbered even in situation #2, like in that Patriot missile example. That's the difference. Also, situation #1 is more common than #2 because real-world numerics applications are pretty routine, and use algorithms designed by numerical analysts to avoid bad behavior. Like including the step of finding the largest pivot and swapping rows in the Gaussian elimination article that I mentioned. That took some sophistication to figure out, but they teach it in math class now, so everyone knows about it unless they skipped class. Of course if you've got someone skipping math class AND designing numerical algorithms despite having skipped class AND choosing low precision for those badly designed algorithms because they wanted to save 5 cents worth of transistors, well, all bets are off.
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| From | Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-09-20 08:43 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <31T_t.107913$2y.58710@fx23.am4> |
| In reply to | #13766 |
On 20/09/13 05:34, rickman wrote: > On 9/19/2013 5:17 AM, Paul Rubin wrote: >> rickman<gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: >>>> if you use IEEE-754 double precision, you're already getting the >>>> benefit of the numerics experts who designed the standard. If you >>>> use anything else, you have to supply your own numerics experts. >>> And what did those experts say about the adequacy of the resolution. >> >> They say IEEE double precision is good enough for most things > > "Most things"??? What does that mean? How do you know if your app fits into the definition of "most things? Read, learn and inwardly digest the (amusing written) contents of http://people.ds.cam.ac.uk/nmm1/Arithmetic/Notes/notes.pdf http://people.ds.cam.ac.uk/nmm1/Arithmetic/index.html Amusing, written by someone on the sharp end of numerical problems since the 1960s. Then you will begin to have an understanding of where the dragons lie.
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| From | Don Y <this@isnotme.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-09-19 22:16 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <l1glo8$fst$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #13741 |
Hi Paul, On 9/19/2013 2:17 AM, Paul Rubin wrote: > I just mean there are a lot of mathematical and coding pitfalls you can > get into when implementing this stuff, +1 I had a colleague who would periodically "re-bug" our floating point library. All in the hope of eeking out a tiny bit more performance or trimming a few bytes out of the code. :< > and IEEE arithmetic is designed > to protect you from quite a lot of them. It's more forgiving towards > straightforward implementations than systems that came before it. Well, it's biggest advantage is that it presents *a* "standard". Previously, the capabilities of the "floating point library" would vary from project to project, environment to environment, etc. 754 can be overkill for lots of applications (esp if you know you don't need NaN's, denorms, etc.) but it's often easier just to implement it all and forget about it. OTOH, amusingly, Limbo was created with with a single "real" data type -- doubles. Yet, some concessions were made to efficiency -- no support for denorms, gradual underflow, a different set of traps, etc. So, its interesting to see how folks juggle requirements and capabilities over time!
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| From | Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-09-19 12:28 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <66Odnb9lTY3UqabPnZ2dnUVZ_oGdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #13719 |
On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 21:53:48 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote: > Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> writes: >> The biggest argument for using non IEEE-compliant floating point is >> that by and large the largest expenditure of logic (or code and clock >> ticks in emulation) to implementing 100% compliant floating point code >> is properly dealing with all possible exceptions and combinations >> thereof. > > This makes sense for software emulations and maybe for FPGA's, but I > think with hardware implementations, handling all those flags and traps > can be done concurrently with the main calculation, with a handful of > extra gates. My understanding is that it's way more than a handful -- you'd need to ask someone who's actually done it, though. What I was told, ages ago, was that in an IEEE-compliant floating-point coprocessor, there's more silicon area devoted to detecting and handling the exceptions than there is to doing an actual computation. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com
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| From | Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-09-19 15:08 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <87vc1wpr2y.fsf@digitalsignallabs.com> |
| In reply to | #13757 |
Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> writes: > [...] > My understanding is that it's way more than a handful I dunno, at 45 nm, a handful is a whole bunch! -- Randy Yates Digital Signal Labs http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-09-18 12:52 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <l1clo9$8ic$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #13687 |
On 9/18/2013 1:43 AM, Paul Rubin wrote: > robert bristow-johnson<rbj@audioimagination.com> writes: >> shown (at the 2008 AES) that comparing 32-bit IEEE float to 32-bit >> fixed,... 32-bit fixed beats 32-bit float. > > That's why 64-bit float was invented ;-). Seriously, the idea of double > precision isn't that you need an ultra-precise final result, but rather, > that if you're doing a numerical algorithm with a lot of steps that's > accumulating a small amount of roundoff error in each step, the > accumulated errors won't reach physical significance unless the > calculation is unusually long or the algorithm is especially unstable at > the input data. For that reason all these suggestions of using non-IEEE > floating point formats sound hacky unless they're coming from numerics > experts. The era of ad hoc floating point formats was the 1970's and > earlier. The world has moved on since then. Really? If you don't implement the full IEEE-754 standard your code is "hacky"? I don't even know what that means. It is useful in software so that code is easily ported between processors. Otherwise there is nothing magical about the format. If a design uses 22 bits of mantissa instead of 24 bits, why is that a problem? Or if a designer decides the app needs 30 bits of mantissa, how is that an issue? -- Rick
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